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Don't forget you can register to vote at the polls Tuesday in Connecticut,  the District of Columbia, Idaho, Iowa, Maine, Minnesota, Montana, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Washington, Wisconsin and Wyoming. In North Dakota, no registration is required.
Lynn Stuart Parramore writes What if Liberals and Progressives Could Learn to Talk to White Southern Men?:

Ever since Neil Young sang about him, the white Southern man has been the symbol for all that is wrong with America to urban lefties. He is a redneck. A gun-toting, rebel flag-waving racist whose sinister activities wreak far more havoc on the country than, say, the wily Wall Street financier. If you can’t hate the white Southern man, who can you hate?
Lynn Stuart Parramore, writer for Alternet
I grew up with white Southern men. Some of them hard-core Republicans. They have been my classmates. My neighbors. I’m related to lots of them. Having been raised in North Carolina and attended the University of Georgia, it’s impossible for me to see them as strangers.  And while they can irritate me no end when they say and do dumb things, I cringe when San Franciscans like Mark Morford wax elitist and paint them as a monolithic band of aliens whose intolerance is only matched by their ignorance. [...]

Conservative Southern white men have a thing about the place they call home, too. I remember riding around with the Republican stepfather of an old boyfriend, who showed me the astonishingly beautiful fields and woods of his South Carolina farm. “I love this land,” he said, getting choked up. “I know every sound the birds make.” (He proved this by giving an eerily accurate rendition of a wild turkey’s gobble). Though he was dyed-in-the-wool GOP, he had a strong instinct for conservation, and I could find common ground with him the need to protect the environment. That’s what you do in the South if you grow up a liberal and don’t want to walk around being pissed off every minute of the day. You try to see if there’s something you might agree on with folks who don’t share your politics. Some humanity that joins you. Usually there is.

I recall snippets like these from my experience with GOP men of the South to help me understand why they are overwhelmingly voting for Romney in this election. Some of it is certainly about race. Cultural memory and prejudice form strange currents in the Southern mind. The power of the fear and antipathy of the black man has been diluted, but it’s still there, and it's easily stoked by unscrupulous politicians. But it’s easy to just stop there, and you won't have a clear picture if you do.[...]

What liberals and progressives don’t seem to understand is that you don’t counter a myth with a pile of facts and statistics. You have to counter it with a more powerful story. And that’s what Obama and the Democrats have repeatedly failed to do. White Southern men want a story that makes them feel proud of America and what it can accomplish. I’m troubled when I hear lefties heap scorn upon the South, partly because I know that the antagonism is precisely what the Mitt Romneys of the world hope for. They want to divide us and keep those regional antagonisms stoked so that the cynical Southern strategy continues to work. Every time a San Franciscan or a New Yorker rails against “rednecks” in the South, he has done Karl Rove’s work for him.


Blast from the Past. At Daily Kos on this date in 2006Protecting The Vote:

Tomorrow isn't just about getting out the vote, it's about protecting the vote as well. Election protection groups are launching a 50-state army of citizens tomorrow to ensure that no illegal practices occur, or, if they do occur, that such crimes are documented so that lawbreakers can be held accountable.  The Wall Street Journal has more:
When Americans go to vote tomorrow, a new breed of activist will be on guard, monitoring polling stations for everything from voting-machine glitches to long lines to registration snafus.

Energized by disputed results in 2000 and 2004, they have left jobs as music conductors, real-estate agents and software engineers to form groups that expect to turn out thousands of volunteers who don't trust the country's ability to count its votes and have decided to do something about it.

"This is going to be the most heavily watched election in history," predicts Marybeth Kuznik, who founded a group called VotePA after the 2004 election to monitor voting issues in Pennsylvania.

And it's not just citizens who are going to be monitoring the polls.  The Department of Justice is stepping up as well.

Tweet of the Day:

David Axelrod on Dick Morris: "I've had a foot in my mouth plenty of times, but it's always been my own!" http://t.co/...
@BuzzFeedAndrew via Twitter for iPhone



High Impact Posts. Top Comments.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Remember, You Can Still Make Phone Calls (36+ / 0-)

    ... until (almost) polls close on the West Coast on Election Day.  From my experiences in various Presidential and other political campaigns, last-minute phone calls matter.  Some voters just need a little push and encouragement.

    Good luck to President Obama, Vice President Biden, and all the other Democratic candidates on Election Day.

    Online/Remote/Virtual Phone Banking Links for Election 2012



    Phone Banking Guidelines - Please read this.

    Our list is targeted at available resources that allow, for example, Californians to phone bank for close races in Ohio, Florida, Virginia, and other battleground states even when online phone banking is not provided by the campaigns. The new tool is remote/virtual phone banking.

    Many campaigns don't have online phone banking like you might have experienced in the past for the Obama-Biden Campaign, which is one click away to a script and list of voters. Please contact the following Democratic campaigns that use a variety of alternative resources including Facebook applications and dedicated software.  Volunteers can log on from inside or outside the state or Congressional District.  Some campaigns will email PDFs of names and numbers to interested political activists from all over the country. Read the directions carefully for each campaign.

    Let's work hard for the next few days and on to victory on November 6th!

    Call out the vote!  Sign up to call voters from home for bold progressives like Alan Grayson and Elizabeth Warren between now and election day.

    Click here to sign up!

    DFA's Dialer is set up for supporting progressive candidates from your home.






    Click onto tab "MAKE CALLS" on the top of page.  If registered at site, it will take you to phone banking page that has the script and list of names to call.  

    If not registered, it asks you to register.

    Sign up at the DCCC volunteer page to make calls from home.  Complete a short form with your email, first name, and other optional information (last name, city, zip, state, and phone) and then choose the checkbox by "Call voters from home."

    A DCCC staffer will make contact via email to explain the process and to register you.  Click this link for more details.

    • United States Senate

     - Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) - Register at her website with name, email address, and password.  After you register, you can make phone calls for her from out-of-state, similar to President Obama's phone banking set up.
     - Tim Kaine (D-VA) - Click this link to make phone calls.
     - Tammy Baldwin (D-WI) - Contact Lauren Peters at 202-997-6642 or laurenp@wisdems.org and she will set you up for their online phone bank.

    • United States House of Representatives

    The Speaker's gavel belongs in Nancy Pelosi's hand.  Work hard to make it happen!

     - Kyrsten Sinema (AZ-09) - Only option for virtual phone banking is via the DCCC (if Sinema is targeted for their support).
     - Ami Bera (CA-07) - Call 916-670-1864 or sign up at this link.
     - Jose Hernandez (CA-10) - Email Nick at namattes@gmail.com to learn how to register and login to the system.
     - Raul Ruiz (CA-36) - Only option for virtual phone banking is via the DCCC. (if Ruiz is targeted for their support)
     - Scott Peters (CA-52) - Contact Kate Lyon at k.lyon@cadem.org or 858-715-1369.
     - Elizabeth Esty (CT-05) - Call or email Matt at 203-716-1669/mjaniszewski@ctdems.org to be registered for phone banking Sat 11/3 through Tues 11/6.
     - Al Lawson (FL-02) - Email alex@lawson4congress.com and request a PDF with the names and phone numbers of people to call.
     - Alan Grayson (FL-09) - Click this link to do phone banking for the campaign.  It is called "Call for Grayson."
     - Val Demings (FL-10) - Email Brian at blacey@fladems.com and request phone lists.
     - Patrick Murphy (FL-18) - Go to this link for immediate registration and login to do virtual phone banking.
     - Lois Frankel (FL-22) - Click this link to create account.
     - Joe Garcia (FL-26) - Email Franco at fcaliz@democracyforamerica.com to sign up to make calls starting now through the election and/or for a major DFA call session on Th. Nov. 1. (Spanish speakers are especially welcome)
     - Tammy Duckworth (IL-08) - Only option for virtual phone banking is via the DCCC. (if Duckworth is targeted for their support)
     - David Gill (IL-13) - Email Meagan at Meagan@gill2012.com.
     - Wanda Rohl (IL-16) - Click on this link - http://rohlforcongress.com/... - and choose a county. In the "name" field type in "Daily Kos" and then supply your email as instructed, and someone will get in touch with you.
     - David Crooks (IN-08) - Call Matt at 574-807-2576 or email him at mattlafortune@gmail.com.
     - Gary McDowell (MI-01) - Call Matt at 203-710-9454.
     - Mike Obermueller (MN-02) - Call Nathan at 952-239-0531 or email him at coulter.nathan@gmail.com.
     - Jim Graves (MN-06) - Call 320-252-4446 or email ray@jimgraves.com.
     - Kim Gillan (MT-AL) - Call 406-694-4100 or email team@gillanforcongress.com for a list of names and numbers to contact.
     - Ann McLane Kuster (NH-02) - Email John at jgreene@nhdp.org or call 603-225-3327.
     - Shelley Adler (NJ-03) - Email shelley@shellyadlerforcongress.com or call 856-574-4178.
     - Michelle Lujan Grisham (NM-01) - Call 505-554-1623.
     - Mark Murphy (NY-11) - Email CorinneRoller@gmail.com or call 718-273-0424.
     - Sean Patrick Maloney (NY-18) - Follow this link to sign up for calling from home.
     - Julian Schreibman (NY-19) - Call Erica at 845-765-9494.
     - Pam Gulleson (ND-AL) - Call Luke Quandt at 701-566-7343.
     - John Oceguera (NV-03) - Email Jonathan at jpattillo@nvdems.com.
     - Betty Sue Sutton (OH-16) - Contact Cayti at 440-842-4227 or cjohnson@ohiodems.org.
     - Manan Trivedi (PA-06) - Email info@trivediforcongress.com or call 610-621-2366.
     - George Badey (PA-07) - Call Tim Brown at  484-432-6438 or email him at tim@badey.com.
     - Kathy Boockvar (PA-08) - Call Brian at 267-544-9224; there is a coordinated GOTV dry run with OFA this weekend.
     - Eric Stewart (TN-04) - Call 931-548-6831; email volunteer@votestewart.com; or go to this link.
     - Suzan DelBene (WA-01) - Email info@delbeneforcongress.com for joining the GOTV phone banking, with set days and times.
     - Rob Zerban (WI-01) - Go to this link and help defeat Paul Ryan twice!
     - Jamie Wall (WI-08) - Call Ben Gardner at 920-737-2971 or email him at beng@wisdems.org.


    Our GOTV Blogathon team members are Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse, Onomastic, JekyllnHyde, boatsie, peregrine kate, ShoshannaD, rb137, and adviser Meteor Blades.

  •  633,752 registered users on dKos now. (29+ / 0-)

    Here are the 10 newest registered users on dKos.  Hope to see their comments and diaries here soon!  (If they're not all spammers.)

    random9april
    powderdish8
    badgejohn0
    pig68violet
    princesears38
    toycherry6
    cosmetiicdentist
    leo13tempo
    adult39lead
    cheese0profit


    And since our society is obsessed with numbers that end in a lot of zeros as milestones, here's a special shoutout to users:
    #633,200: sign9veil
    #633,300: butane60wallet
    #633,400: titlefeet0
    #633,500: dmg323
    #633,600: jeffjuhl23
    #633,700: headfibre0

    We've added 637 more users in the last 24 hours.  This is a continuation going back to May where we've been absolutely flooded with new users.  I'm pretty sure almost all of these new users are spammers or bots.  While the rate had been getting faster, it seems they suddenly started slowing down right when Hurricane Sandy hit.  We're finally under 1,000 new users in a 24-hour period for like the first time in months.  What are they planning?


    And for your Diary Rescue music pleasure, with just one day left to go, here's "One Term More".

  •  Last speech of his last campaign: Obama in IA (27+ / 0-)

    "Fired up and ready to go" story ends his campaign --

    Edith wouldn't come -- she's knocking on doors, GOTV in North Carolina!

    CNN live stream

  •  The journey has begun. Let the journey continue. n (11+ / 0-)

    Fuck Big Brother...from now on, WE'RE watching.

    by franklyn on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 08:37:02 PM PST

  •  I don't know about you. but i'm fired up! (22+ / 0-)

    ready to go. let's finish this.

    "You've got to stop this war in Afghanistan." final words of R Holbrooke

    by UTvoter on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 08:38:14 PM PST

  •  An Apology (23+ / 0-)

    I posted a diary last night that contained several paragraphs that many people (including a whole bunch of people I know from places other than Daily Kos, and whom I like and respect) found offensive.  They were right to be offended; I was wrong in posting the paragraphs. Had I used the preview feature appropriately (as an opportunity to consider what I was writing before pushing the publish button), I would not have done so.  I’d like to blame those ill-chosen paragraphs on fatigue, or something neutral, but “not using the brain God gave me” (as my Vermont grandmother would have said) is the better explanation.

    As has been true so often here at Daily Kos, the stupidity of those paragraphs was pointed out to me politely in the comments; I learned from those comments and I very much appreciated the kindness with which they were offered.  

    I sincerely apologize.  

    ____________

    Now: We have an election to win!  Let’s do it.

    VOTE 2012

    Polls open in Dixville Notch and Hart’s Location in 20 minutes.

    President Obama just gave his final campaign speech ever.  Let’s do everything we can to re-elect this amazing man.

    Proud Member of the Big Bird Wing of the Democratic Party.

    by noweasels on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 08:38:25 PM PST

  •  "We" tried "talking to them" (15+ / 0-)

    and got beaten, killed, and thrown in jail.  

    Their ideology will either have to be defeated, or eventually wither away on it's own.  It is not likely to change with mere "dialog" after 200 years.

    •  See your problem (8+ / 0-)

      Is you're considering everyone that doesn't vote Democrat as a monolithic group of stubborn racist whites, which they aren't. Dialog does change things. If you change one person's mind, and everyone keeps doing that, minds do change. That's why you have southern whites that do vote Democrat.

      http://callatimeout.blogspot.com/

      by DAISHI on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 08:53:39 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Why can't Southern White Men (11+ / 0-)

        who love the environment come around to understanding which candidate will protect that land they love?  I am a little tired of somehow it is the nothern Democrat that has to cajole the southern white man to coming around to seeing the light.  With all the great programs on educational TV about nature and the environment and the internet that provides access to all kinds of newspapers, magazines, etc online, why aren't these men able to evolve on their own?  By the way, everyone in San Francisco and New York are not liberal Democrats, so you are stereotyping a bit there too.  New York & CA have had as many Republican governors as they have Democratic governors.  I lived in the East Bay of San Francisco in a very conservative area.

        •  If it wasn't for angry old white guys from (6+ / 0-)

          the South (who vote against their own self-interests) this country would be a lot more peaceful and prosperous.

          Not to mention the fact that most of the Southern states that they live in are welfare states, that take in more federal tax dollars than they put back into the system.

          And to top off their hypocrisy, they sit around bitching about "pulling yourself up by the boot straps" and "personal responsibility, and crap like that.

          I've got nothing for the lying and hypocritical, right wing angry old white guys from the south - in fact they can kiss my white ass.

          Chicago--Proud Home of the 1907-08 World Series Champion Chicago Cubs

          by Jeff Y on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 09:23:12 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Problem is they are inundated with propaganda (4+ / 0-)

            whether it be from Faux, their local church/televangelist, free anti-Obama documentaries on their cable provider, misleading mailers, etc.

            In order to change the South long-term, we need to dismantle the talking-point-to-dittohead misinformation pipeline that currently fuels the "angry old white guy" Republican base.

            Romney flip-flopped far more than Kerry ever did.

            by tojojo on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 09:27:52 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  And what about (5+ / 0-)

            the vast majority of white guys from the South who are neither angry nor old?

            The rhetoric here on this topic is sickening me.

            •  It's Daily Kos. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              renzo capetti, politik

              The bias displayed against southern, plains and mountain-west states (and Alaska) and their citizens is something I usually counter by simply asking "have you ever been there? How do you know?"

              And the silence is usually deafening.

              Folks need to get off the freaking internet with all its "common knowledge" and actually go travel around this country. They be astounded by what they find.

              © grover


              So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

              by grover on Tue Nov 06, 2012 at 12:56:55 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  And those of us who grew up in the South (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                grover, createpeace

                and still heap venom and scorn on it, and the twisted moral compass of the people there?

                Honestly, I've never see a New England liberal hate on the south more than a southern ex-pat liberal will.

                /speaking as a Texas ex-pat.

                Non enim propter gloriam, diuicias aut honores pugnamus set propter libertatem solummodo quam Nemo bonus nisi simul cum vita amittit. -Declaration of Arbroath

                by Robobagpiper on Tue Nov 06, 2012 at 02:26:49 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  You are entitled to your opinion (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Uncle Moji

                  (Actually, I guess everyone is entitled to their own opinions, eh?)

                  because it's based on experience, facts, data, reality.  

                  We are supposed to value that stuff here.

                  But about a week ago, someone made a snotty comment about SD, ND, MT, AK and a couple of other states being "terrible states" (the context being that Romney would carry those states). And I just wondered, who in the world makes that kind of stupid statement?

                  How in the world could someone call Alaska AND Montana AND South Dakota "terrible"?  They're entirely different places with really different types of citizens (if you can lump a whole state of people into an archtype or two).

                  Ignorance. And, I'm afraid, the unfortunate habit of speaking from the culture of pseudo- elitism that often looks down on rural states (Which earns users nearly automatic recs here).

                  I totally get where you're coming from, and I respect it. There are a couple places in the country that I have little inclination to return to, much less live. But that's based on experience.

                  © grover


                  So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

                  by grover on Tue Nov 06, 2012 at 02:40:02 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                •  I have... (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  chmood, createpeace

                  Many times here at dk.

                  Your point is well taken -- that the subset of folks who have left the South are some of its most viriluent critics stands... But in my experience they don't attribute the problems to an undefeatable essence of "Southerness" the way folks who have no knowledge of the region or its people do, they simply know how powerful are the myths and sensibilities are that form the positions of white Southern men.

                  There is a difference in the tones, however, I would argue.

                  Intense criticism can come from any source, but the difference may be in how one makes sense of what they are critiquing.

                  Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel

                  by a gilas girl on Tue Nov 06, 2012 at 04:33:33 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

              •  They're all nice places. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                createpeace

                But a majority of their people express hatred with their votes and you can't fix that with niceness.

                You know, I sometimes think if I could see, I'd be kicking a lot of ass. -Stevie Wonder at the Glastonbury Festival, 2010

                by Rich in PA on Tue Nov 06, 2012 at 04:32:41 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

            •  Why does the stereotype exist? (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              FutureNow, createpeace

              Is it not true that the stereotypical white male makes the rules in these states?  Is it not true that these states pose hostility to our nation in a variety of ways?  If they don't want to be though of in such a monolithic way then they need to show a little diversity to the nation.   They have been cultivated and used and they need to pick up on that and become the supposed free thinkers that they argue they are.  Perhaps the others that live there need to step up.  I don't know but having lived there and as a person with plenty of relatives there, the south deserves its monikers.  I know, of course, that there are plenty of great people there but they aren't making any headway in getting the south to get past the War.  Relatives of mine that are transplants have turned into complete wing nuts on the far side of wingnuttia.  Something bad is there.

              Everyone! Arms akimbo!

              by tobendaro on Tue Nov 06, 2012 at 04:34:11 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  I was thinking THIS as well (4+ / 0-)

          "I am a little tired of somehow it is the nothern Democrat that has to cajole the southern white man to coming around to seeing the light."  

          •  By the way (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            createpeace, Positronicus

            In reading the comments, it's pretty clear that the diary author and us commenters should be making the distinction, "Southern white republicans" or "Southern conservatives" or something rather than just saying "Southern white men" because all of us are obviously aware but noticeably quiet about the fact that that there is a--commendable!--minority of Southern white men who are progressives fighting the good fight.  Hats off to them!  

            It's--relatively--easy being a progressive in a blue state.  I sometimes pop in on political forums from my home state, and it's interesting to read CONSERVATIVES crying about being awash in a sea of "liberal nonsense" and longing for us to be more like South Dakota.  (Not that I don't smile while lurking on their bitch-fests.)

    •  So tired of hearing because they love the land (4+ / 0-)

      they are are conservationists.  They still believe in the war of Northern Aggression.  Sure they may be nice to their cousins and to little children they are related too but ask them to vote to feed hungry children who live in another state or country, ask them if women should have the government decide when and if they can have healthcare.  Ask them if they think Americans should go to other countries and die for Dick Cheney's benefactors.  And of course lets dismiss or make little of their hate for others, because we all know that's not a significant part of their everyday lives.  They fought w/the British during the Revolutionary War and they've never stopped supporting authoritarians and hating others.  They receive more Federal Aid than any blue state and yet they hate the Federal Gov't.  They are lovable and irrationally hate others.  Anyone who knowingly and consistently votes to prevent the hungry from access to food or the sick from healthcare is not a good person who can be reasoned w/because they love the land.

      •  Whatever we focus on (6+ / 0-)

        is what we'll get more of.  So why NOT focus on finding things we have in common and love to start a conversation.  Open minds are a good thing to have.  Entrenched opinions are stubborn things, but there are ways out of them.  Parramore offers us a way to change minds without trying to change minds.

        Finding things we have in common is a powerful tool for change.

        "Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful." - Albert Schweitzer

        by Tyto Alba on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 09:06:19 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Parramore is a typical straight liberal. (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          OLinda, Plu, tobendaro, Dallasdoc

          She thinks we "true lefties" are "too caught up in the hot-button cultural issues like gay marriage . . . to have a civil conversation."  See, if we on the left could just stop worrying about silly, divisive things like equality for gay people, then maybe some of these southern white guys who glorify a slaveholding society might like us better.

          I'd like to tell Ms. Parramore that I don't think she can consider herself a true lefty if she thinks equality for gay people like me is just some hot-button cultural issue that we're spending too much time talking about.  Like a lot of straight liberals, she views LGBT rights as some kind of fringe issue, something almost superfluous, something we might be able to afford to get to, but only if it doesn't upset these southern good ole boys too much.

          I'm afraid that this is what liberal homophobia looks like.

          "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

          by FogCityJohn on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 11:54:17 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Your hatred and continuing non-stop vitriol (14+ / 0-)

        is completely and entirely offensive to me. I am a Southern White male. I do not find it even remotely useful to attempt to validate your insipid hatred for a very sizeable portion of THESE UNITED STATES in what you seem to believe is your own, personal echo chamber.

        There is much I would gladly say to refute your "theory" about Southern White men, many of whom are, and have been fighting non-stop for the past four years (or forty, if you prefer) to bring about the change we seek. So just knock it th' f off. Period.

        I'm so very completely sick of this non-stop diatribe that my head very nearly explodes every time I come to what I have come to believe is a place that accepts me, yet turns at every opportunity to spew hatred, miscontent, dissention amongst fellow Americans! Seems like, on a site like this, some folks would learn the values of tolerance, and inclusion.

        You don't even want to attempt to tell ME what you are "so tired of hearing", believe me. Meet some of MY scars from living a life of service to your country, your fellow man, and your home. I dare ya. In the meantime, just shut up.

        Nurse Kelley says my writing is brilliant and my soul is shiny - who am I to argue?
        Economic
        Left/Right: -7.75
        Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51

        by Bud Fields on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 09:14:38 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  rAmen Bud (7+ / 0-)

          I've encountered some of the most idiotic racist and just plain mean people in all sorts of places, Upstate NY being one of them. I've also met white southerners who were just the best. It never hurts to try to get to know someone, you never know who you will meet. (Unless that person is Ted Bundy, but you know what I mean :)

          "The scientific nature of the ordinary man is to go on out and do the best you can." John Prine

          by high uintas on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 09:19:58 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  I don't mean to be snide or flip (4+ / 0-)

          But you're directing an incredible amount of ire at a group of people you know more or less nothing about, but whom you feel have deeply wronged you... by directing an excess of ire at a group of people they know more less nothing about, but whom they feel have deeply wronged them.

          I can't help but think that there is something deeply ironic about this picture.

          •  I've been silent entirely too long for my own (4+ / 0-)

            personal health. If those who agree with this diary, and this commenter disagree, so be it. I no longer care to suck it up, remain silent, and allow the appearance of agreement to go unanswered.

            That is the clearest statement I can make. I am by no means alone in my complete disregard for those who would offer their "wisdom" to include the forced secession of the Southern United States for the good of America.

            It is completely ludicrous, hateful, and disingenuous. It also demeans the years of work Progressives in the South have done, often at risk (or cost) of life and limb. This is NOT a unifying principle. Period. So on top of everything, and everyone else who stand squarely against those efforts, in THIS place defense must be mounted against the hatred espoused by the "wisdom of DK" as well?

            No. This is not democracy. This is intense hatred, promulgated by idiots who do not know, have not lived, and will never give the very first damn (by their own admission) about anyone, much less a visciously active Southern Progressive movement.

            That's what you may be seeing as deeply ironic. How very unamerican. Shame!

            Nurse Kelley says my writing is brilliant and my soul is shiny - who am I to argue?
            Economic
            Left/Right: -7.75
            Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51

            by Bud Fields on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 09:52:18 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  And, may I hasten to add, (8+ / 0-)

              the timing of repeating this screed, again, on the eve of the most important election in American history, which will (despite someone else's prevarications to the otherwise) heavily depend upon the votes of those Southern white men (and women), blacks, Latinos, students, LGBT, the poor, the elderly, the infirm, from below your supposedly righteous imaginary line is unconscionable.

              It is a direct slap in the face of every one of us who, despite every possible obstruction are even, at this very hour, working our white male, southern asses off to re-elect the President of the United States.

              Thanks.

              Nurse Kelley says my writing is brilliant and my soul is shiny - who am I to argue?
              Economic
              Left/Right: -7.75
              Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51

              by Bud Fields on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 09:56:17 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Okay (0+ / 0-)
              If those who agree with this diary, and this commenter disagree, so be it. I no longer care to suck it up, remain silent, and allow the appearance of agreement to go unanswered.
              Okay. Just so long as you understand that you are cursing them out and telling them they're bad people for doing the exact same thing you're doing, and you acknowledge that that makes you a bad person too, that seems reasonable to me.
        •  I've said this elsewhere tonight (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          nom de plume, Shippo1776, fuzzyguy, Unduna

          but the rhetoric on this topic from some people is making me sick.

          I'm a goddamn straight white Southern male and I'm a liberal by choice.  Nothing special about me.  But anybody who says that everybody that looks like me is a hopeless racist troglodyte can fuck the fuck off.

        •  no, he's right no matter how tired it makes you (13+ / 0-)

          I wrote this below it explains where I'm coming from when I say the 'myth' the lady speaks of in her little essay just isn't true. I've lived my life in the south and I've worked for civil justice for most of my 71 years. I know the south and I know just what the rednecks she refers to really want, they tell us all the time.

            I'm a southern non-white man (0+ / 0-)
          And I'm hear to tell you what Ms Parramore says is bullshit. Maybe as a white woman she can see things that way but I think in my 71 years livin in the south I've come to know the common southern white man pretty damn well. Let me first say that I know some very good thinking southern white men who aren't racist. I just wish they made up even close to half of the number, they don't.

          But those good white people aren't who she's talking about. She says she's talking about rednecks. I know rednecks, not the liberal ones who are trying to clean up the word. Not the enlightened people of the south, she's talking about those who long for the past not those trying to make a better future.

          As a kid I came home from the army in 1960 to see white people clear the streets of all black and Indian people at sundown. I saw the police corner and beat black youth for being "out of dixie" after hours. That's what they called "colored town", Lil Dixie, we all did. I went to segregated schools and I participated in the years of struggle to stop that crime against our people. I hitchedhiked across the south from Fla back home to Oklahoma and experienced the 'colored only' restrooms in bus stations and the seperate drinking fountains where the colored ones weren't cleaned except by black patrons.

          I know what the popular song "Strange Fruit" meant when it was made because those same Strange Fruit were still appearing on trees as I listened to it.

          I could go on about the hell of growing up when white southerners had life and death control over society. But I'll leave it to your imaginations. Things like being unable to report a rape and having to go back to work for the same overseer. An elevator in the jail where if one got a 'ride' with several white cops chances were you wouldn't live to reach the top.

          But what I want to say here is that it is no "myth" these rednecks long for, they know damn well what reality they want back. It isn't about birds or land or customs. It isn't abot some pretty "way of life" they once had. NO, it's about what I wrote of above and thousands of other things white rule meant. Like grown men stepping offf the sidewalk if some white boys walked by. Not being able to vote. No service in the lowlyest white diner. Lives of tension under a rule of hate with fear always in your Mama's mind because she knew you have a temper.

          So I read bullshit like the little essay above and I know damn well it was written by someone who didn't live the life, someone who wants to sound smart while paving over the truth. I know, I lived it. I know full well what those rednecks want back and it isn't a myth.

          America could have chosen to be the worlds doctor, or grocer. We choose instead to be her policeman. pity

          by cacamp on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 10:07:35 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  No one is saying that didn't happen. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            riverlover, createpeace

            And god help us it still does (sigh), but it is getting better, or was. This whole election is aimed at making sure it's worse. I live in some serious redneck country, I know exactly the people you are thinking of. Many are on assistance and live...well, I wouldn't keep a dog where they live. They see no way to make their lives better, so why should their kids want any more than they had. Instead of working for a better life, they just want to drag everyone into their pit. They victimize others so they feel superior to anyone else. Doesn't make it right,, just saying its who they are. The ones with good jobs and nice homes are the ones I can't figure out. Some people are just horrible I guess.
             Not every southerner is a redneck, and not every Yankee is up to speed on equality. And I have been on the receiving end of some ugly racist crap hurled by Latinos and African Americans who made snap decisions based on my color and accent. I shrugged it off as best I could knowing they had a lot more reason to be angry than I. But it still ain't right, and being female I get it coming and going.
            I raised my kids with 'don't generalize about people, get to know them before you dislike them. If you dislike someone, personalize it, know why. Generalizing is easy, people are complicated and a lot harder'
            I would not be happy in a city, you would probably not be happy with a pack of coyotes singing in your back yard and no street lights. And wouldn't life be dull if we were all the same?

            "And while it was regarded as pretty good evidence of criminality to be living in a slum, for some reason owning a whole street of them merely got you invited to the very best social occasions."

            by Shippo1776 on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 11:01:04 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  What you experienced is prejudice, (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              tobendaro, Dallasdoc

              not racism. Racism is a sustained,  deeply entrenched structural preference for one group constructed over long stretches of time that confers inherent privileges on said group. Prejudice is harassment on ethnic grounds. I'm not disputing that this may have been a traumatic experience for you, but American whites like you and me really have no idea what it is like to experience actual institutional and cultural racism because of white privilege. Whatever our individual experiences, our appearance and cultural attitudes are regarded as the default in this country because of its history of white supremacist racism in all geographical areas (not just the South). Note that I am only saying this about the racial aspect of your experience and I acknowledge that as a woman you are the victim of institutional and cultural sexism.

              What's that black smoke risin' Jack, is the world on fire?

              by Reckoner on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 11:59:36 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  One of the things I experienced (0+ / 0-)

                Was having a mom take her 4 year old trick or treating. I love Halloween, so I go all out. She got 3-5 feet from me,  stopped, grabbed her son and said 'never mind, that bitch ain't got nothing for you, she's white'. This was in California. So racist to teach your children skin color is all or not?
                 Prejudice I understand, I also know racist when I see it. This was not an isolated incident.

                "And while it was regarded as pretty good evidence of criminality to be living in a slum, for some reason owning a whole street of them merely got you invited to the very best social occasions."

                by Shippo1776 on Tue Nov 06, 2012 at 06:03:53 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

        •  There are good people everywhere. However (0+ / 0-)

          you're anger is based on anecdotal experiences not being given enough credence as indicative of the whole.  The facts clearly say otherwise.  Please don't deny reality.

        •  Hate lost yesterday! (0+ / 0-)

          As hard as the confederacy tried, they lost.  And I do NOT want the south to secede.   I do not hate the hateful southerners.  I fear what they do and say.  I have sympathy for them for all the angst they cause themselves and others.  

          •  20,000,000 progressives and Democrats (0+ / 0-)

            voted n the Southern US yesterday. Yay, us! Nobody worked harder, longer, and with less support to get out the message, and the vote.

            The work is only beginning. It IS in progress. Recognize that.

            Nurse Kelley says my writing is brilliant and my soul is shiny - who am I to argue?
            Economic
            Left/Right: -7.75
            Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51

            by Bud Fields on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 08:21:28 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  It's a cultural (and providential) thing (0+ / 0-)

        I don't think that all progressives/Democrats/Northeners hate
        Southerners.  Southerners (mostly males, who seem to be the spokespeople) just don't seem to be willing to dredge up any imagination or empathy to consider what life is like for someone who isn't them.  Or travel, or otherwise expand their mental horizons.  Or try to empathize with anyone not in their milieau (sorry for the Fr.).  Why do the others always have to do the accomodating, this country has been a nation for over 200 years, and they have had the most opportunity in their society to expand their horizons?   It seems that they have the most to benefit from the status quo, and know it; it's not the Democrats fault, or anyone else's, just pure opportunism that hasn't been shaken sufficiently yet by the digital age or other cultural forces.

      •  It's really sad to me when I .... (6+ / 0-)

        read this sort of stuff.  I'm a white male, in my 40s, I grew up in Texas, Arkansas, and Mississippi (I now live in the Pacific NW). Most of my teens years were spent on a farm in the Mississippi Delta, hunting and fishing. I have never voted for a Republican, in any race, anywhere, at any time, since I became an eligible voter in the mid 1980s. President Obama is going to earn sizable minorities in these southern states tomorrow, and it won't just be African American votes. It's going to be the votes of college education white southern progressives, who hope and believe that the South can be a better place.  I've spent most of the day working a phone bank here in my state. I walked in the door tonight to sit down and read about our victory tomorrow because I'm excited and hopeful. And instead I find posts that demonizes the very sort of people we need to be convincing.

        And in any case, they're stubborn and prideful. Telling them they're the enemy is only going to keep them the enemy.

        We need to be working on a way to win 50 states.

    •  Certain things are non-negotiable (13+ / 0-)

      - Racism is unacceptable.

      - A woman's right to decide for herself is inviolable.

      - People have an absolute right to choose who they love.

      Southern men, conservative women, and various religious fundamentalists have only one choice. Get with the program.

      Human rights are non-negotiable.

      “No, Mitt, corporations are not people. People have hearts, they have kids, they get jobs, they get sick, they love, they cry, they dance, they live and they die. Learn the difference.”-- Elizabeth Warren

      by Positronicus on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 09:00:00 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I wish people would take that article to heart (8+ / 0-)

      This binary us-vs-them us the root of everything that's wrong in American life.  I'm a white male and I've lived in the South all my life, and I'm a liberal.  I sure as hell wasn't born one.  See?  And I've never even beaten or killed a single Northerner, shocking as that may be to some people here.

    •  If they cared to listen (6+ / 0-)
      you don’t counter a myth with a pile of facts and statistics. You have to counter it with a more powerful story. And that’s what Obama and the Democrats have repeatedly failed to do. White Southern men want a story that makes them feel proud of America and what it can accomplish.
      Barack Obama has been telling a story -- a remarkable, historic story, about America, and what it can accomplish.  Democrats do, in fact, tell amazing stories.  Stories that should inspire -- about people who genuinely built themselves up from humble beginnings; about people who have given their all for the rights and well-being of others; about people who resist truly resist abuses of power; about people who are looking out for more than their own self-interests.
      Is the problem that those stories aren't dominated by white, Southern men?  If so, then they probably will continue to take refuge in the myths of their own creation.  And they probably will miss out on learning what America actually can accomplish in the century ahead.

      I agree that we could stand to reach out more -- to make fewer generalizations about white Southerners (the same way Lynn could stand to recognize that we aren't all "elitist San Francisco lefties" on this side of the aisle).  But we all have a right, and a need, to tell our own stories -- and not bury or revise those stories in order to win the favor (or mitigate the hostility) of those who think the stories should be about them.

      Please proceed, Governor.

      by vivadissent on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 09:26:42 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  That part just pissed me off something fierce (7+ / 0-)
        you don’t counter a myth with a pile of facts and statistics. You have to counter it with a more powerful story. And that’s what Obama and the Democrats have repeatedly failed to do. White Southern men want a story that makes them feel proud of America and what it can accomplish.
        What we're saying here, then, is 'Southerners don't care about facts and stuff like that. They want to be told a good story. And because Republicans are good at stories and Democrats aren't really, that means that it's your fault that you can't get the South to like you. And you have to stop with all those facts and things.'

        It seems to me to be both deeply insulting to Southerners, who would at least mostly like to believe they live in the real world, and at the same time basically a way of blaming the Democrats squarely for their own problems. Just learn to tell comforting lies — America is the greatest in the world, we don't have to change, there's nothing wrong with us and everything's just going to get better from here — and we'll be just fine.

        Forgive me if I don't sign onto that program.

      •  Agree (0+ / 0-)

        I, too, took exception to your quote. If southern white men need a story, then they haven't been paying attention these last 4 years.

    •  Yes we did try, please read what I wrote below (11+ / 0-)

      No I'll reprint it here if you all don't mind. Here's why I agree with you...

      I'm a southern non-white man (0+ / 0-)

      And I'm hear to tell you what Ms Parramore says is bullshit. Maybe as a white woman she can see things that way but I think in my 71 years livin in the south I've come to know the common southern white man pretty damn well. Let me first say that I know some very good thinking southern white men who aren't racist. I just wish they made up even close to half of the number, they don't.

      But those good white people aren't who she's talking about. She says she's talking about rednecks. I know rednecks, not the liberal ones who are trying to clean up the word. Not the enlightened people of the south, she's talking about those who long for the past not those trying to make a better future.

      As a kid I came home from the army in 1960 to see white people clear the streets of all black and Indian people at sundown. I saw the police corner and beat black youth for being "out of dixie" after hours. That's what they called "colored town", Lil Dixie, we all did. I went to segregated schools and I participated in the years of struggle to stop that crime against our people. I hitchedhiked across the south from Fla back home to Oklahoma and experienced the 'colored only' restrooms in bus stations and the seperate drinking fountains where the colored ones weren't cleaned except by black patrons.

      I know what the popular song "Strange Fruit" meant when it was made because those same Strange Fruit were still appearing on trees as I listened to it.

      I could go on about the hell of growing up when white southerners had life and death control over society. But I'll leave it to your imaginations. Things like being unable to report a rape and having to go back to work for the same overseer. An elevator in the jail where if one got a 'ride' with several white cops chances were you wouldn't live to reach the top.

      But what I want to say here is that it is no "myth" these rednecks long for, they know damn well what reality they want back. It isn't about birds or land or customs. It isn't abot some pretty "way of life" they once had. NO, it's about what I wrote of above and thousands of other things white rule meant. Like grown men stepping offf the sidewalk if some white boys walked by. Not being able to vote. No service in the lowlyest white diner. Lives of tension under a rule of hate with fear always in your Mama's mind because she knew you have a temper.

      So I read bullshit like the little essay above and I know damn well it was written by someone who didn't live the life, someone who wants to sound smart while paving over the truth. I know, I lived it. I know full well what those rednecks want back and it isn't a myth.

      America could have chosen to be the worlds doctor, or grocer. We choose instead to be her policeman. pity

      by cacamp on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 09:38:07 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  here's a question (0+ / 0-)

      when was the last time you serious tried to talk to him? The Carter administration? Maybe some things have changed. Maybe older generations have died and new ones are coming up. Maybe, just maybe, you're a little bigoted.

    •  I've had dialog with boys from the KKK (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Unduna

      and I am as opposite in every way that seems to matter ideologically from them as I happen to be.  I have been spit on, hit, shoved, threatened with broken bottles, called names, and once forced into a ditch at night by a car full of name calling racist homophobic white boys without its lights on.  

      And I would say, dialog DOES matter.  I have also had good conversations with people whose point of view I have come to understand.  And right wing evangelical white Christians who now have to reconcile their hatred for queers and their xenophobia and their racism with a different experience of what love and compassion can mean.  

      Barack said it last night.  One voice can make a difference.  One voice can change the world.  

      "Out of Many, One." This is the great promise of our nation -9.75 -6.87

      by Uncle Moji on Tue Nov 06, 2012 at 07:26:36 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I am so excited... (9+ / 0-)

    and nervous at the same time.  I am so sure we are going to win.  But can't wait to see 270 EV's (hopefully early tomorrow night).  

  •  Please please rec this diary up (10+ / 0-)

    Please rec this diary up. It's a call for and a notice of direct action to save the house of a woman fighting cancer while Morgan Stanley does what Morgan Stanley does best: kicks people when they're down.

    End of commercial.

    The problem with going with your gut as opposed to your head is that the former is so often full of shit. - Randy Chestnut

    by lotusmaglite on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 08:41:16 PM PST

  •  I heard today that the Dem early voting numbers (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BlueJessamine, Tyto Alba

    in Ohio are down 11,000 from what they were in 08.

    Add that to the fact that Ohio's Republican Sec of State (Husted) is a piece of crap partisan weasel, and it's making me very, very nervous.

    Chicago--Proud Home of the 1907-08 World Series Champion Chicago Cubs

    by Jeff Y on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 08:42:05 PM PST

    •  No way to know this unless OFA leaking it... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Jeff Y, Ender

      Because Ohio doesn't record party affiliation unless you voted in primaries in either of the last two cycles.  Meaning unless you voted in the Dem primary in 2010 (Gov/Sen both largely uncontested) or 2012 you are not counted as a Democrat.  GOP on the other hand had a hotly contested Presidential primary this past March - Dems who crossed over in a little operation chaos voting now would even be counted as Republican.  

      Only OFA would know the real numbers - as they'd have master lists and would know who is a Dem and if they voted.  And I don't think they'd leak that info if it was bad.  

      These numbers you're talking about seems to be GOP wishful thinking.  

      They have the billionaires, We have the Big Dog!

      by Jacoby Jonze on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 09:01:08 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  great bit from Lynn Parramore: (9+ / 0-)
    What liberals and progressives don’t seem to understand is that you don’t counter a myth with a pile of facts and statistics. You have to counter it with a more powerful story. And that’s what Obama and the Democrats have repeatedly failed to do.
    thanks for posting that.

    An ambulance can only go so fast - Neil Young

    by mightymouse on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 08:42:27 PM PST

  •  "Every time a San Franciscan or a New Yorker (7+ / 0-)

    rails against “rednecks” in the South, he has done Karl Rove’s work for him."

    Could replace the word South with West, or even South West, and it would also ring true.

    How big is your personal carbon footprint?

    by ban nock on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 08:42:31 PM PST

    •  Because Southern people never rail against the n. (6+ / 0-)

      Maybe it's a little frustrating for us that we can't have nice things in this country because there exists a monolithic block of Southern states who repeatedly and happily elect Senators and Representatives that do their best to block anything that could be considered progress - from the Civil Rights Act to clean energy etc etc.

      I realize that it's not everyone, and there are tons of progressive southerners. But it's ridiculous to assert that the reason the South is red is all the North's fault, and if we'd just take all the abuse and shut up we'd have a progressive paradise in South Carolina.

      I'm sick and tired of it being fine to rail against "big city elitist liberals," and it's no more ok when you have progressives doing it than when conservatives do it.

      So when we have to hear crap like:

      I cringe when San Franciscans like Mark Morford wax elitist and paint them as a monolithic band of aliens whose intolerance is only matched by their ignorance.
      OOOH SAN FRANCISCO! ELITISTS! It's fine to brand San Fran as "monolithic elitist aliens" but FSM forbid we say anything about the beloved South...

      it just drives me nuts.

      Sorry, /rant.

      When we stop putting leaders from the past up on pedestals and ignoring their flaws, we can start seeing our present leaders for what they really are.

      by PhillyJeff on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 09:17:38 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well, the obvious answer to this... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        tobendaro

        ...is the old 'we must be better than they are, and always turn the other cheek and make sure that nothing we say could insult them, because if we continue to do that maybe someday they'll stop hating us so much.'

        This is not a strategy that has ever worked anywhere in the past that I've ever heard of, so I'm kind of dubious that it will do us much good either. However, truth to tell, it's not like directing slurs against Southerners is doing us much good either. Does it win us votes? No. Does it lose us votes? No. Does it do anything at all in any way positive for us? Nothing aside from blowing off some steam.

        And when I can be the better person without it costing me anything other than one avenue for releasing my tensions, hey, why not?

        •  I am stunned that folks equate dialog with nothing (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Unduna

          that is, as if talking or listening alone is a discrete act, not within the continuum of the acts of the movement to create social justice or social change.  

          I guess I feel old.

          ah.  

          "Out of Many, One." This is the great promise of our nation -9.75 -6.87

          by Uncle Moji on Tue Nov 06, 2012 at 07:35:57 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Oh, I would never say that it's 'nothing' (0+ / 0-)

            But I have a bit of familiarity with past and current civil rights fights, and I cannot think of a single one that was successful based on being quiet and reasonable and discussing things politely with people who are uninterested in being quiet and reasonable.

      •  Absolutley. Yes, there are tons of southern (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        greengemini, ozoozol, tobendaro

        progressives. Just as there are tons of northern racists and right wingers. Nonetheless, as illustrated in your quote, some are able to take great offense at slights against southerners, whether real or perceived, while simultaneously -- and blissfully unawares -- blithely insulting their northern and urban fellow citizens.

        The undeserved indignation is unbecoming, especially when accompanied by hypocrisy wrapped in lack of self awareness.

        I'm all for dialog and reaching out to those who we might not always agree with. Let's just not romanticize some mythic noble southern white man of the soil.

        "I'm not familiar precisely with exactly what I said, but I stand by what I said, whatever it was." M Romney May 17, 2012

        by polidiscoursor on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 10:17:07 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  tit for tat (0+ / 0-)

        An ambulance can only go so fast - Neil Young

        by mightymouse on Tue Nov 06, 2012 at 04:43:39 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Don't Be A Tool (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Mark Mywurtz, tobendaro, createpeace

      Bible Belt

      Confederate States

      Is it a coincidence that the bible belt states are nearly identical to the pro slavery states. The passions of racial prejudice and religious beliefs are powerful political tools to be exploited. Karl Rove knows this well.

      The Republican Party has been taken over by the corporatists and christian fundamentalists. The corporatists will force you into poverty, and the christian fundamentalists will force you to live under biblical law; daily gruel and scripture for all.

      by glb3 on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 10:55:24 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Baffled (0+ / 0-)

        How does religious fervor and racial animosity coexists so elegantly in the south?

        The Republican Party has been taken over by the corporatists and christian fundamentalists. The corporatists will force you into poverty, and the christian fundamentalists will force you to live under biblical law; daily gruel and scripture for all.

        by glb3 on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 11:00:04 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  I tried reading the Parramore piece, (3+ / 0-)

    really wanted to like it, but just couldn't be bothered to finish it.

    Your request has bad syntax or is inherently impossible to satisfy. --httpd_err400form

    by Bob Novak Douchebag of Liberty on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 08:42:41 PM PST

    •  Probably because, (3+ / 0-)

      as FogCityJohn points out, she's telling us to have open minds while hers seems pretty sealed shut.

      Having been raised in a rural area and having rednecks in my family, I agree with much of what she says, but the tone is, "I know better than you Yankee latte liberals" while she has glaring blind spots of her own. For example, she says she was raised middle class, "but since I went to public schools," like, yeah, most middle class kids go to private school?

      And uh, going to school with a certain kind of person doesn't mean you know much about them.  Redneck boyfriend or no. .

      She's observed the species as an anthropologist:  

      They called me “Cover Girl” because of my fresh-scrubbed appearance and seemed bent on treating me as an ambassador from another world. There was honor at stake; they didn’t want me to go back home and tell my friends about how rough they all were.
      They didn't want her go back and say they were rough? Waaa? Does she really think that ever crossed their minds?

      How about, they were just nice guys?

      Meh, I've met too many people like her: "experts" because they decide they are.

      The takeaway is that we need to treat each other with respect. But that's always been the lesson. It's not that hard.

      © grover


      So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

      by grover on Tue Nov 06, 2012 at 01:19:23 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Ha Ha! axelrod tweet (11+ / 0-)
    David Axelrod on Dick Morris: "I've had a foot in my mouth plenty of times, but it's always been my own!"
  •  keep pushing for Calif and OR/WA/ HI , all y'all. (8+ / 0-)

    we need all our down ticket reps/props to pass, too.  we suffer from apathy, or an early call, so folks don't vote on the way home.
    please keep it going for a FULL 23 and 1/2!
    love ya.
    just
    love you guys!  thanks for all you've done this time. xoxo

    GWB was a CEO. Hoover was a CEO. 2 CEO presidents. 2 great depressions. Can america afford another CEO president?

    by stagemom on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 08:43:06 PM PST

  •  15 Minutes Until First Votes Cast! (5+ / 0-)

    Let's go Dixville Notch and Hart's Location!

    Proud Member of the Big Bird Wing of the Democratic Party.

    by noweasels on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 08:44:44 PM PST

  •  Basically White Southern Men want to be lied to. (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Jeff Y, JeffW, wesman94, cacamp, greengemini

    They want someone to tell them THEY"RE NUMBER ONE even if they haven't done a damn thing to earn it.

    And there's no room in their universe for anyone else to be #1, even for a little bit.

    •  That's why they love AM Hate Radio so much (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JeffW, Ekdog, wesman94, greengemini, tobendaro

      Right wing blowhards like Druggy Limbaugh tell them that the reason that their lives suck so much is because some poor black kid in the inner city is getting a free lunch from their tax dollars, etc etc. And they tell them this crap every single day.

      Never mind the fact that most of their tax dollars are actually being spent on funding Republican tax cuts for the rich and endless wars.

      Chicago--Proud Home of the 1907-08 World Series Champion Chicago Cubs

      by Jeff Y on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 08:51:17 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Listen to yourself (9+ / 0-)

      Because you're being ignorant. You've just made a fallacious argument based on a stereotype that you've used to group together an entire demographic. Good job, you're doing exactly what Rush does.

      http://callatimeout.blogspot.com/

      by DAISHI on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 08:54:58 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  then why am I here? (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JeffW, tojojo, congenitalefty, fuzzyguy, Unduna

      White Southern Man at the Great Orange Satan. Been here a while, not leaving any time soon.

      Putting on the spectacles of science in expectation of finding an answer to everything looked at signifies inner blindness. -- J(ames) Frank Dobie

      by cactusflinthead on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 09:11:39 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Right wing, not you (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        wesman94

        Unfortunately, you are a minority in your thinking in that part of the country. But you are also right about what you believe (facts).

        Chicago--Proud Home of the 1907-08 World Series Champion Chicago Cubs

        by Jeff Y on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 09:26:08 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  depends on where you look (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          clblabin, fuzzyguy

          There are a lot of country boys like Willie from Abbott that moved to Austin, Dallas, Houston, San Antonio and some never left the small town.

          We are not in the minority in Dallas County or in Harris County or in Travis county. Those of us that vote blue are more than we used to be.

          It seems mandatory to write off this part of the country as if  there was no reason to pursue any work here. What she says in the article has a lot of merit; instead of denigrating the South and immediately attacking, try to find some means of addressing their needs.

          I ain't leaving one way or the other.

          Putting on the spectacles of science in expectation of finding an answer to everything looked at signifies inner blindness. -- J(ames) Frank Dobie

          by cactusflinthead on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 09:47:22 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I actually think Texas could go blue soon (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            fuzzyguy

            But from what I gather, Republicans still control most of the power there, including voting (redistricting, counting the votes etc). And that's a big problem.

            If that ever changes, Republicans would be toast in Texas.

            Chicago--Proud Home of the 1907-08 World Series Champion Chicago Cubs

            by Jeff Y on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 10:09:09 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  I thought addressing needs (0+ / 0-)

            was the job of the politically elected.  Seems to be some kind of disconnect there.  I know not everyone in the south is a conservative, racist redneck bubba, but since they present that politically to the nation they get the monikers.  

            Everyone! Arms akimbo!

            by tobendaro on Tue Nov 06, 2012 at 04:54:22 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

  •  Brad Paisley (8+ / 0-)

    ... in his own way.  This one came out lately, he sang it at the CMA awards last week (with a shout out to NJ), Southern Comfort Zone:

    This one, inspired by election result 2008.  Brad was at Times Square, and deeply moved - he did this one at the White House, too.  Welcome to the Future:

    (OMG, on the YT version, there's an anti-Obama ad before this song starts.)

    "Taxes are for the little people." Leona Helmsley (before she went to jail for taking that attitude a bit too far)

    by Land of Enchantment on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 08:46:12 PM PST

  •  This country was founded to a large extent (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    high uintas

    by southern white men, so they can't all be bad. Of course they all owned slaves.

    I agree that Dems have done a terrible job of communicating with non-liberals, and really of coming up with an effective framing and messaging apparatus that would resonate with people outside the tent, that didn't require watering down liberal values, in fact proudly acknowledged and promoted them, just in a way that might appeal to non-liberals.

    Why are we still ashamed of our beliefs? They're American beliefs, upon which the country was founded: liberty, of course, but also community, responsibility, hard work, self-reliance, fairness, opportunity, equality, justice, etc.

    "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

    by kovie on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 08:46:46 PM PST

    •  As did (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      high uintas, fuzzyguy

      Northern White Men.

      http://callatimeout.blogspot.com/

      by DAISHI on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 08:55:38 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  "of course they had slaves"?? WTF? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      greengemini

      These aren't the founding fathers we're talking about here, more like to slave overseers and their ilk. What todays rednecks want is a retrun of their superiority over brown and black humans. It don't matter how we 'talk' to them it's their hate that fucks things up.

      I hope you'll read my longer comment below to see where I'm coming from.

      America could have chosen to be the worlds doctor, or grocer. We choose instead to be her policeman. pity

      by cacamp on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 09:46:29 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  So it was ok for the founding southerners (0+ / 0-)

        to own slaves, because they were better human beings? My point was that you can't completely demonize ANY group, because ALL groups have their faults, including men most people here revere, like Jefferson, Madison, Henry, etc. If you do the "Yes, but" thing for some, you have to do it for ALL.

        Personally, I don't know any southern "rednecks". I do, though, know northeast bigots, of various backgrounds, and they're the ones I have a hard time talking to about politics because they're prejudiced and, well, kind of stupid about politics.

        I doubt I can ever make much headway with them based on my experience with them. However, a smart and talented politician skilled at talking to people and having insight into the core values of what this country was founded on might.

        Even they know deep down it's not only about guns, freedom and "I got mine".

        "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

        by kovie on Tue Nov 06, 2012 at 05:20:49 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  What? (0+ / 0-)
      I agree that Dems have done a terrible job of communicating with non-liberals
      Not that I entirely disagree, but I feel obligated to point out that the majority of Democratic politicians aren't actually, you know, liberal.
      •  Disagree (0+ / 0-)

        Whatever they call themselves, most Dems generally agree with most core Democratic policies and values, which are inherently liberal. It's just that many are ok with watering them down or not willing to fight for them as much as they used to. And even that's changing, for the better. The Blue Dogs are becoming irrelevant, and conservative southern Dems are almost extinct.

        Let's not do the "both parties are the same" thing, especially today.

        "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

        by kovie on Tue Nov 06, 2012 at 05:12:40 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I am NOT doing 'both parties are the same' (0+ / 0-)

          The Republicans are insanely conservative. About 2/3 of Democrats are centrist-to-center-right, including the President. The other 1/3 are actual liberals.

          A significant minority if not a majority of Democrats are in favor of cuts to social services that would have been unthinkable to Republicans 40 years ago, and voted for deregulation of the financial industry that would have been considered insane by both parties 50 years ago. Democrats are more willing to compromise on women's issues than they have been since Roe v. Wade. And so on.

          It's important to understand that there is a very distinct line between Democrats and Republicans, now of all times. But it's also important to understand the shortcomings of our own party.

    •  They did not ALL own slaves. (0+ / 0-)

      Not even close.

      This site gives the biggest range (and an interesting analysis for the higher number).

      Chances are, if you're interested in the Civil War or Civil War memory, you may recognize 6% as the number of white Southerners who owned slaves in 1860 (some say 5%. Whatever). In many apologetic texts, this number magically morphs into 6% of Confederate soldiers (or fewer!). Nevermind that recent scholarship puts the number of Confederate soldiers who lived in slaveowning families at well over a third.
      http://www.vastpublicindifference.com/...

      6-30%.

      Most southerners were farmers. Most of them were pretty poor. Most did not own slaves. Even if you accept this blogger's 30% number (I don't know anything about the blogger. He just provided analysis to support his views, so I thought I'd include it instead of the 5-10% I've always read), that still leaves a large majority who did not.

      © grover


      So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

      by grover on Tue Nov 06, 2012 at 01:30:04 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Don't Confuse "Liberals" with Intellectuals. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    twigg, high uintas, basquebob, mightymouse

    Ed Schultz can talk to southern men, to any blue collar men. The problem isn't philosophy alone, it's class and culture.

    Find a clip of Ed in front of a live audience. Like from his radio show this afternoon. Or the time some yrs ago in the Columbus OH union hall when he went off on how health care flipped him from R to D.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 08:47:51 PM PST

    •  I live among that demographis. (10+ / 0-)

      I find it completely pointless to point out anything remotely resembling a "fact", but here is what does work ...

      Try reminding those folk of their own values .... family, church, community, family again.

      Then ask how they are able to support politicians who don't help their families. Politicians who lie to them, cut education budgets.

      Politicians who want to keep women poorly paid, or deny then health care rights (and there are a LOT of abortions in the south).

      Ask them those questions and they might not change their vote, but they will think twice about who they are supporting, and more than that, they will have found a Liberal that they can have a conversation with.

      Oh yeah ... and when they complain about welfare, simply remind them that Walmart relies on welfare for it's employees. They all know someone who works at Walmart!

      I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
      but I fear we will remain Democrats.

      by twigg on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 08:55:49 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Why is being "intellectual" a bad thing? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      greengemini, Alice Olson

      I thought people in America, especially progressives, aspired that their kids might be better educated and have better opportunities than we did.

      When we stop putting leaders from the past up on pedestals and ignoring their flaws, we can start seeing our present leaders for what they really are.

      by PhillyJeff on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 09:20:42 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Also, just over 6 hours till the polls open here (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JeffW, evdebs, Alice Olson

    Hopefully, we won't all have to stay up all night to find out the results. Too bad we won't get to hear Keith call it again. I guess that Rachel will have to do.

    "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

    by kovie on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 08:48:07 PM PST

  •  OccupySandy - direct donations through Amazon (11+ / 0-)

    or delivered to St. Jacobi Church in Brooklyn

    Occupy Sandy’s main hub in the Rockaways began with a solar powered generator from Greenpeace.  Before long, the National Guard was relying on OccupySandy to distribute what they had brought. The whole world is watching as OccupySandy becomes the frontline for recovery and relief delivered directly from citizens to their fellow citizens.

    Occupy Sandy now has a registry on Amazon.com - You can see for yourself what items are urgently needed and unavailable to people in the affected areas.  Some of the items are things that are hard for local volunteers to pick up and drop off.  

    Nov 5 PM Edition here (UPDATED): http://www.dailykos.com/...

    Nov 5 AM Edition here:  http://www.dailykos.com/...

  •  Don't ask me , I don't know why . (5+ / 0-)

    "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

    by indycam on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 08:51:25 PM PST

  •  Mitt's Gone Buggy (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    noweasels, JeffW, gchaucer2, suesue

    Joking at the size of the audience, he quipped: “I am looking around to see if we have The Beatles here or something to have brought you, but it looks like you came just for the campaign and I appreciate it.”
    Puhleeze. C'mon Rombomb, When you think you're one of the gods, you've really gone delusional.

    Fuck Big Brother...from now on, WE'RE watching.

    by franklyn on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 08:52:50 PM PST

  •  I don't think any vote I cast tomorrow matters (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    UTvoter, jgnyc, burnt out, tobendaro

    TN is a lock for Romney, my congressman (Jim Cooper) isn't going anywhere, Sen. Corker is running against a "Democrat" the party has disavowed, and the local races are largely forgone conclusions. Still, I will vote, no matter how many hours it takes.

    I really want a national popular presidential election. And I know Obama would have run a very different campaign if we had one, and would be doing fine. As it is, most of us are left out, between the EC and gerrymandering.

    Conservatives believe evil comes from violating rules. Liberals believe evil comes from violating each other.

    by tcorse on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 08:53:39 PM PST

  •  What if conservative white southern men (12+ / 0-)

    learned to talk to, and care about, the rest of their own country, and their own futures, too?

    Why fall into the typical frame of "oh, liberals aren't trying hard enough?" That's a tired one, and it's trotted out every once in a while by someone who thinks they've found great insight. They haven't. I've heard similar arguments about feminism, to the same effect.

    In the south and Idaho and a few other spots where partisan attitudes are extreme, most people over 30 can't necessarily be persuaded. They will often maintain their irrational beliefs in the face of overwhelming evidence. Not because some hippie didn't buy the guy a beer in the correct local watering hole, but just because they have trained themselves in an entire world view, and have been raised to believe that changing their opinions and empathizing with others is a sign of weakness and femininity.

    And another point, probably the most important: the average OFA activist knocking on a door can't undo hundreds of years of the self-weakening, fake macho male culture we've created in this country. That culture is at the heart of modern conservatism.

    The real hope is the next generation, and democrats and liberals can reach southern kids and kids in other conservative parts of the US through things like universal health care, expansion of pell grants, and other federal programs that impact young people. Change their lives. Get them access to education. And make sure they know where those opportunities are coming from.

  •  where can we get the results from Dixville Notch? (6+ / 0-)

    Anybody know?  I know that they vote right at midnight, and then shortly thereafter report the first officially counted votes of the election.

    We have nothing to fear but fear itself

    by bhouston79 on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 08:55:27 PM PST

  •  Lynn Parramore (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LNK, cactusflinthead, Unduna

    Great post Meteor Blades.  Thank you for sharing this.

    "Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful." - Albert Schweitzer

    by Tyto Alba on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 08:56:49 PM PST

    •  Lynn Parramore is so correct! Thanks. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Tyto Alba

      A few years ago I spent an evening with one of top Democratic strategists.

      He told us (a group of 'elite' New Yorkers) that we misunderstand Southerners, rural people, and the working class........And it's much to our detriment.

      Maybe after the election we could start a study group here to find common ground and tell the better stories.

    •  Just posted for the discussion... (4+ / 0-)

      ...not because I necessarily agree.

      Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

      by Meteor Blades on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 10:04:02 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  You did post it, can we tell you what you believe? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        angry marmot, Tyto Alba

        ;-)

        It's a great find, btw, thank you! I do agree with Lynn Parramore, on this. How about you?

        I hope the DailyKos leadership will set an example for others here. Assuming Obama wins tomorrow, imho what we need is not caterwauling, not jeering, not profanities [especially on the front page, which others emulate].

        Rather, we need civil discourse about Republicans, and magnanimous behavior, while preserving our value and goals.

        Winning is a necessary first step. The biggest challenges begin Nov 7.

        •  civil and magnanimous is fine (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Sharon Wraight

          however, don't fetishize compromise.

          Dems in office need to use the power they have. that's why people elected them.

          but yeah, try to message well and speak to people's better selves.

          An ambulance can only go so fast - Neil Young

          by mightymouse on Tue Nov 06, 2012 at 05:52:18 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Looks left. Looks right. Fetishize compromise? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            mightymouse

            I guess you're not talking about me. :-)  

            "while preserving our values and goals"
            Agreed about using the power we have, in office. Including the bully pulpit, when the House is being intransigent.

            Politics may be the art of compromise, but it is not the art of acquiescence -- the compromise emerges after using all available stratagems (including temporary feints and log-rolling).

            It's perhaps a Southern skill, to steamroll full-speed ahead while being 'gracious' and courteous. Dumb as a fox, meek as a buffalo.

    •  Lynn Parramore sounds like Cokie Roberts in (0+ / 0-)

      that infamous episode of This Week after PBO was elected and it was announced that the Obama's would vacation over Christmas in Hawaii.

      Roberts: ...going off this week I know his grandmother lives in Hawaii and I know Hawaii is a state, but it has the look of him going off to some sort of foreign, exotic place. He should be at Myrtle Beach and if he's going to take a vacation at this time. I just think this is not the time to do that.
      Parramore is full of shit.

      Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a Republican. But I repeat myself. Harry Truman

      by ratcityreprobate on Tue Nov 06, 2012 at 02:42:34 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Dexter Morgan (0+ / 0-)

    lives in Florida - he strikes me as an Obama guy.

    Do I laugh now, or wait 'til it gets funny?

    by WalterNeff on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 08:57:17 PM PST

  •  Facebook...... sigh.... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    UTvoter, gchaucer2, Terre

    that is all.

    The Republican Party, courting the female vote for 2012 by clubbing us over the head and dragging us back to the polling place.

    by truesteam on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 08:58:16 PM PST

  •  I'd like to believe there's a story they'd believe (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JeffW, Aunt Pat, greengemini, tobendaro

    But the story of a man born the son of an immigrant, raised by a single-mother, who grows up to be President doesn't seem to be a story these guys will accept when the hero is black.  They didn't seem to like it must when the guy was white, either, even when he'd been a Southern-State governor.  So maybe it's just "Democrats" and will be until after the next Republican betrays their race prejudices and they have to switch again.

  •  Lynn Stuart Parramore (6+ / 0-)

    The Southern White Male needs to accept the fact that the Civil War is over, the south lost, and the Union was preserved. The fact that many in the south haven't moved forward with history is what makes them a brunt of jokes, not misunderstood.

    The Republican Party has been taken over by the corporatists and christian fundamentalists. The corporatists will force you into poverty, and the christian fundamentalists will force you to live under biblical law; daily gruel and scripture for all.

    by glb3 on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 09:05:35 PM PST

    •  The Southern White Male... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      greengemini, jgnyc

      ...has a similar attitude towards the Northern Blue Necks. Give your southern friends a little lecture about how they aren't the only ones who care about America.

      The Republican Party has been taken over by the corporatists and christian fundamentalists. The corporatists will force you into poverty, and the christian fundamentalists will force you to live under biblical law; daily gruel and scripture for all.

      by glb3 on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 09:33:48 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  No sale, Lynn ... (4+ / 0-)

    There are lots of people here in Pennsylvania who 'love the land' and can make great turkey sounds ... and then vote overwhelmingly for Corbett the Fracker King.

    Southern, northern ... these people can't add 2 and 2, and no amount of 'dialogue' is gonna help.  

    Lincoln blew it.

  •  Bobbleheads-R-Us (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tobendaro

    A local Republican candidate has an ad out where he's talking to "supporters" who keep nodding their heads up and down. Laughed my ass off.
    Looked like one of those puppet dogs we used to to sit on the dashboard.

    Fuck Big Brother...from now on, WE'RE watching.

    by franklyn on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 09:08:18 PM PST

  •  i mentioned this in my diary (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    clblabin, greengemini, Meteor Blades

    snippet:

    That's another thing - we have been so busy buying into their framing and playing defense on their turf, that it has distracted us from the other reason why they always win this debate. They use what I call heart-speak. Heart-speak is the language of conservatives - it appeals to the heart and makes them feel proud and true to the spirit of America. Heart-speak 'sounds' like common sense and 'feels' true to the founding fathers vision, and is not necessarily rational.

    Heart-speak has us playing defense and countering with what I call mind-speak, where we try reasoning with them using facts, evidence and logic in eternal futility. Our self-righteous, echo chamber borne perception that we are the educated and more intelligent ones, and that we are on the right side of history makes us overlook this failure in communication.

    Countering with mind-speak does nothing but play right into conservative bias. To a conservative, Leftist mind-speak sounds exactly like heart-speak that confirms all their negative biases and stereotypes. In other words, we are unwittingly  punching ourselves in the face repeatedly when we drop truth and knowledge in the form of mind-speak.

    The Left needs to learn to master the art of heart-speak, so that they can properly communicate with conservatives. The key to speaking from/to the heart is the fact that the Right does not have a monopoly on much of their feel-good heart-speak rhetoric, and that much of their rhetoric is nothing but empty catechisms and myths. This means that the Left can easily take back, or hijack, and redefine or redirect the exact same conservative rhetoric.

    •  Because in my elitist San Francisco dialect, (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      greengemini, ozoozol, jgnyc, tobendaro

      "Heart-speak" is pronounced "bullshit."

      The American South does not have a proud history. It has a prideful one. A vainglorious, insular story of bigotry and hate, and I'm not interested in praising that in order to "heart-speak" to someone (pronounced: "blow smoke up their ass") too blinded by a two-century inferiority complex to see what a mess America's rightward shift has wrought.

  •  For America to live, the South must die (11+ / 0-)

    There is nothing, no story, no narrative, no set of ideas, that anyone can tell to southern white men, or most southern white women, that will pry their hands and hearts away from their chosen narrative of the Noble South and White Supremacy.

    They aren't going to give it up because they don't want to give it up.  They built a monument to the leaders of treason in defense of slavery at Stone Mountain.  They are not going to take it down or repudiate it.

    America the beautiful ideal, the place where everyone enjoys equal rights, equal opportunity, equal access to the blessings of liberty is what southern whites fought against for more than two hundred years.

    The southern white person's vision of America is not the same as mine.  It never has been.  We will never convince them, we will never convince "The South" to join the rest of the country.  We have to wait until they die.

    •  Um, all of us? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      fuzzyguy, jan4insight

      I mean, I'm trying to eat better and stuff. Taking my cholesterol pills and all that. :)

      Conservatives believe evil comes from violating rules. Liberals believe evil comes from violating each other.

      by tcorse on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 09:16:57 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Of course not (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        tobendaro

        I'm not talking about 'southerners' or 'the South' in the literal sense, but in the archetypal sense.  Which the exact same sense that Lynn Stuart Parramore is using in her remarks.

        There is a claim that these are stereotypes, unfair, unkind, unwise.  But there are so many actual, living, bloviating examples that one can only conclude that we are talking about real things, and real beliefs.

      •  Based on my experience with "The South"as genetics (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        tobendaro

        James might have a long wait. Ever heard a sixteen year old say, "Ya wouldn't want a president that didn't believe in god?"

        Sounded just like his old man as they say. Yep, a long wait.

        Sometime we all should gather over to Vicksburg,Mississippi and kind of get a feel of how it is really perpetuated.

        It goes something like this.

        "Vicksburg is the nail head that holds the South's two halves together...Vicksburg is the key"

        Two statements, two Presidents, both aware of the importance of the city on the Mississippi River. President Davis knew it was vital to hold the city for the Confederacy to survive. President Lincoln wanted the key to gain control of the river and divide the South. Vicksburg National Military Park commemorates this campaign and its significance as a critical turning point of the Civil War.

        I got that from right here.
    •  With all due respect (1+ / 1-)
      Recommended by:
      clblabin
      Hidden by:
      Ender

      Fuck you. You can tell everyone you know that came from a Southern White Male. Asshole.

      Nurse Kelley says my writing is brilliant and my soul is shiny - who am I to argue?
      Economic
      Left/Right: -7.75
      Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51

      by Bud Fields on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 09:22:02 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Sorry (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        jgnyc, wesman94

        Sorry to be making you angry and I will accept your "fuck you!" with grace.  

        Since you are a southern white male, maybe you might want to take a poll of your fellow southern white males and see if there is some factual basis for what I am saying.

        Oh wait, somebody already did.

        It's on page 11, Bud, and it isn't pretty.

        •  Yes (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Unduna

          There are those that exist. Not exclusively in the Southern US, nor are all Southern White males such as this. Further, it is in no possible stretch of the imagination reason for any American to espouse views that disenfranchising many millions of American citizens.

          Does this truly have to be explained? Here?

          Nurse Kelley says my writing is brilliant and my soul is shiny - who am I to argue?
          Economic
          Left/Right: -7.75
          Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51

          by Bud Fields on Tue Nov 06, 2012 at 02:39:50 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Disenfranchising? (0+ / 0-)

            Disenfranchising?  That usually means depriving some one of his right to vote.  Who said anything about that?

            In a broader sense to disenfranchise some one can mean to deprive him of his political power.  That is exactly what I wish I could do to the bigots, but we can't.

            My whole point is that it is useless to talk to or try to persuade these Sons of the South.  We don't need to do anything to them, but we really ought to destroy their myth.

            It is, after all, a lie.

    •  Yes, no possible dialogue (0+ / 0-)

      They think that they have no incentive to give anything up, and no empathetic imagination to consider the situation of anyone but themselves and their male ancestors dating back multiple generations.  How do you talk to people like that, or try to teach them about the diverse human experience?  Anyone who isn't them is subhuman, and created that way by God.  

    •  Ya know (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mightymouse, Unduna

      My mother told me to drop dead and burn in hell last month because I back Obama. Now here you are telling me the same thing....thanks

      "And while it was regarded as pretty good evidence of criminality to be living in a slum, for some reason owning a whole street of them merely got you invited to the very best social occasions."

      by Shippo1776 on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 11:21:13 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Really? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mightymouse

      I read your comment and I easily could have heard Native Americans saying that about the myth of America with its manifest destiny, its Indian wars, its Trail of Tears, its broken treaties and its theft of lands.

      Have you ever actually spent much time on reservations?

      There is nothing, no story, no narrative, no set of ideas, that anyone can tell to southern white men, or most southern white women, that will pry their hands and hearts away from their chosen narrative of the Noble South and White Supremacy America from history textbooks
      ....where everyone enjoys equal rights, equal opportunity, equal access to the blessings of liberty is what southern whites fought against for more than two hundred years.
      There. Just a few edits.

      Before you go waxing all nostalgic about America, you might want to consider that there are many versions of America. And everyone doesn't enjoy all that stuff that you think they do, starting with (but not exclusively) the original Americans.

      © grover


      So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

      by grover on Tue Nov 06, 2012 at 01:48:03 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Hmm.. anyone having trouble publishing a diary? (0+ / 0-)

    Nothing on the new diary list since an hour ago?

  •  For old time's sake (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Ender, Aunt Pat

    I'm sure someone else has already posted today.  From 2008...I still love the coffee cup guy!

    http://www.youtube.com/...

  •  Some good YouTube videos (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Pam from Calif, mightymouse

    Mr. Burns and Seamus choose the next president:


    -

    Triumph, the insult comic dog at one of the debates:


    What Triumph says to Hannity at the end is just priceless.
  •  If Southern men cared about facts and stats (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Pometacom, greengemini

    they never would have rolled the dice on the Civil War. The Confederates knew perfectly well the Union had a large advantage in men and and even larger advantage in the industrial capacity needed to manufacture war materiél. They didn't care; they had a belief in intangibles, in their own martial spirit, and in what we might call Leementum.

    Of course, repeal of Obamacare doesn't make for much of a Lost Cause. But it's past time the Southern whites realize all that martial courage, all those traditions, that whole Southern way of life, were built around something sick that lived, in its twisted way, into the 1960s. Once that's clear, we can hike through the cypress swamps together.

  •  I'm a southern non-white man (11+ / 0-)

    And I'm hear to tell you what Ms Parramore says is bullshit. Maybe as a white woman she can see things that way but I think in my 71 years livin in the south I've come to know the common southern white man pretty damn well. Let me first say that I know some very good thinking southern white men who aren't racist. I just wish they made up even close to half of the number, they don't.

    But those good white people aren't who she's talking about. She says she's talking about rednecks. I know rednecks, not the liberal ones who are trying to clean up the word. Not the enlightened people of the south, she's talking about those who long for the past not those trying to make a better future.

    As a kid I came home from the army in 1960 to see white people clear the streets of all black and Indian people at sundown. I saw the police corner and beat black youth for being "out of dixie" after hours. That's what they called "colored town", Lil Dixie, we all did. I went to segregated schools and I participated in the years of struggle to stop that crime against our people. I hitchedhiked across the south from Fla back home to Oklahoma and experienced the 'colored only' restrooms in bus stations and the seperate drinking fountains where the colored ones weren't cleaned except by black patrons.

    I know what the popular song "Strange Fruit" meant when it was made because those same Strange Fruit were still appearing on trees as I listened to it.

    I could go on about the hell of growing up when white southerners had life and death control over society. But I'll leave it to your imaginations. Things like being unable to report a rape and having to go back to work for the same overseer. An elevator in the jail where if one got a 'ride' with several white cops chances were you wouldn't live to reach the top.

    But what I want to say here is that it is no "myth" these rednecks long for, they know damn well what reality they want back. It isn't about birds or land or customs. It isn't abot some pretty "way of life" they once had. NO, it's about what I wrote of above and thousands of other things white rule meant. Like grown men stepping offf the sidewalk if some white boys walked by. Not being able to vote. No service in the lowlyest white diner. Lives of tension under a rule of hate with fear always in your Mama's mind because she knew you have a temper.

    So I read bullshit like the little essay above and I know damn well it was written by someone who didn't live the life, someone who wants to sound smart while paving over the truth. I know, I lived it. I know full well what those rednecks want back and it isn't a myth.

    America could have chosen to be the worlds doctor, or grocer. We choose instead to be her policeman. pity

    by cacamp on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 09:28:40 PM PST

  •  Absolute bullshit. Just another "liberals need to (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cacamp, greengemini, tobendaro

    be the better people" story. Most repubs are so stupid,  they vote against THEIR OWN interests. How can I count on them to safeguard mine? Sorry, but we have to save these people from themselves. As for spinnin' folksy stories so we can gather round the campfire and roast marshmallows, again I call bullshit. The problem with stories is that they can be used to promote ANY agenda. Hitler could mesmerize folks with his stories, and look where that got us. That's why FACTS (which the author seems to dismiss) are the final judge of what works and what doesn't. THEY need to follow OUR lead and be concerned with facts, reason, and results - not the other way around.

    •  Genius political strategy. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Unduna

      Call them idiots while hurling disparate facts at them, which you acknowledge they are too dull to make use of. While wagging your finger and telling them to follow you.

      "The Democratic Party is not our friend: it is the only party we can negotiate with."

      by 2020adam on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 11:02:32 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  You assume that you know what (0+ / 0-)

      "THEIR OWN interests"  are, each and every one of them.

      Or, perhaps, are you simply talking about their financial interests?

      Are there, perhaps, other interests that are MORE important than finances?   Shouldn't we admire people who opt to value their core principles higher than money?

      Or, are we willing to concede that we are a lot like Mitt Romney: it always comes down to money?

      There are people at this very blog who vote against their own interests. They are generally highly admired here. Why are those on the other side ridiculed for doing the same thing?

      It seems to me that despite all the rhetoric of being open-minded and reasonable, some people just don't place high value on other people's principles and core values.  Many liberals want to be seen as being tolerant, but in the end, if they don't agree with someone's values, then they don't respect them and deride their reasons for voting.

      And to turn your question a bit, if you don't respect them, why should they trust you?

      © grover


      So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

      by grover on Tue Nov 06, 2012 at 01:58:40 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Worrying... (0+ / 0-)

    Dave Wasserman ‏@Redistrict
    OHIO EARLY VOTE: More troubling #s for Obama than in VA. Turnout down 4.1% vs. '08 in Kerry/Obama counties, UP 14.4% in Bush/McCain counties

    "My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world." -Jack Layton (1950-2011)

    by Coco Usagi on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 09:29:50 PM PST

  •  The power of "social myth" (4+ / 0-)

    Nobody reads George Sorel anymore.  He's so forgotten now that he's not even dangerous anymore either.  Of course, he would be if people started reading him again.

    Interestingly, he played a huge role in radicalizing France's equivalent of America's white southern working men.  His syndicalism reached deep into the small town French working class that had been the backbone of the chauvinist and anti-semite movement that had cried out for the blood of Dreyfus.   Zola may have stopped that train, but Sorel escorted the passengers off and onto another line entirely.  And he did so with the power of the social myth.

    Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?

    by ActivistGuy on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 09:37:07 PM PST

  •  We should listen to myths and bury facts? (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cacamp, OLinda, greengemini, tobendaro

    "What liberals and progressives don’t seem to understand is that you don’t counter a myth with a pile of facts and statistics."

    Brown v. Board of Education. 347 U.S. 483 (1954) would seem to refute this premise.

    My name is Douglas Watts.

    by Pometacom on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 09:41:15 PM PST

  •  Has The... (6+ / 0-)

    Ted Nugent watch been initiated yet.

    "If Barack Obama becomes the president in November, again, I will be either be dead or in jail by this time next year." - Ted Nugent

    The Republican Party has been taken over by the corporatists and christian fundamentalists. The corporatists will force you into poverty, and the christian fundamentalists will force you to live under biblical law; daily gruel and scripture for all.

    by glb3 on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 09:51:03 PM PST

  •  I wish I had... (5+ / 0-)

    The privilege to find common ground with the "White Southern Man." But I don't. I'm a Jewish kid working as a disability advocate living in Oakland with my Black girlfriend who is a public school teacher to Spanish-speaking 2nd graders. We recycle, vote progressive, encourage clean energy, diversity, are anti-racist, anti-sexist, pro-choice, and we even support liberation theology. We are literally the antithesis of everything that the GOP stands for. We are literally what the rednecks and evangelists and reactionary conservatives hate.

    How do I know? Because every news cycle is spent in dramatic posturing about how we're ruining the country. How WE are the reason American supposedly is no longer "great."

    I wish I had the privilege to pretend that the Southern White man was a conservationist because he loves his neighborhood when he's voting for oil drilling in the oceans near my home. I wish I had the privilege to pretend that the Southern White man was open to a "more powerful story." But he isn't, because he can't accept those "facts and statistics" (and logic, reason, reality). There is no more powerful story than the truth.

    But this Southern White man you speak (does he even exist?) doesn't care about the truth. Doesn't care Obama is a citizen, or gave them millions affordable healthcare, or killed Osama bin Laden, or created agencies to protect consumers from loan/credit fraud, or repealed DADT, or supports gay marriage, or the thousands of other positions and policies he's done to make our country "great."

    You can tell by the consistency which the South votes GOP. Votes FOR bigotry, prejudice, discrimination, classism, and more besides.

    You're telling me I should see the good in this guy??? Really? Why? Because they're somehow, deep down, beneath all the bigotry and hurtful actions actually a good person? I could give a flying fuck. That's like saying a domestic abuser shouldn't face consequences because, really, they're "not that bad."

    Articles like this just piss me off. They substitute one form of ignorance for another, attacking liberals for refusing to give a pass to BS. Well, frankly, I don't care if I piss off Mr. Southern White man with his Stars and Bars flag on the cab of his good ol' boy pickup. Why? Because he already spat on me, and I certainly am not going to shake his hand after that. I'd rather just keep it moving.

    However, my caveat is... I don't see the South like that. I see it as a place far more complicated, because while those GOP Whites hold the power, the people are far more liberal, diverse, and all-around better than what we see in their electoral votes. Give it time and I guarantee we'll see a Democrat win Mississippi someday.

    "When facts are reported, they deny the value of evidence; when the evidence is produced, they declare it inconclusive." -- Augustine, in The City of God.

    by Zek J Evets on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 09:51:04 PM PST

    •  Strange, we are so close and yet so far (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      grover, mightymouse, createpeace, Unduna

      See my comment elsewhere in this thread, from a North Bay Jew who works at a University teaching *gasp... Literature, Composition, and working with non-English speaking students.

      For me, I see part of the problem as our unwillingness to speak to Southerners and try to understand them; they're more nuanced than I'd have believed.

      My grandmother's a great example, as a fundamentalist, evangelical Christian, she did vote for Obama in the last election (she's sitting this one out, which is better than her voting for Romney). First Democratic vote she'd cast in her life. And why? Why did she vote for Obama over McCain? Because she thought he was smarter than McCain, who struck her as a cranky old man (she's not racist -- not all those from outside of the metro areas of the U.S. are racist, IMHO... they're just raised with it... she sometimes uses racist jargon, but has offered free board to down and out African-American mothers at her home through her church). She doesn't like people who she doesn't trust. Romney stymied her here. She's both socially and economically conservative, but on the social side, she isn't racist or homophobic, so that may change things a bit.

      I'm glad that I had some awkward conversations with her during the last election because she listens to Fox News all day long and didn't realize that they lied. I was able to show her how. She still is a Republican, but she watches other channels too now and thinks FOX sucks and is filled with spin meant to prey on people like her (which is it).

      Vote YES on Prop. 30, California!!!! Yes on 30, No on 32 & 38. For the future of education.

      by mahakali overdrive on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 10:51:33 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I take a one x one case. Sometimes I confront, (4+ / 0-)

    sometimes I compliment and weasel into their hearts with some arguments that are mild and build from there, other times I just call them what they are.

    And when the issue of racism comes up--or when I hear the dog whistles--I call it for what it is and it doesn't matter one whit whether the person is male, female, black or white etc. I don't tolerate racism. Ever.

    One size doesn't fit all and no, I am not at all interested in Parramore's approach. Fine is she wants to use that approach, but it won't be mine. I'll continue with my case x case method.

    202-224-3121 to Congress in D.C. USE it! You can tell how big a person is by what it takes to discourage them. "We're not perfect, but they're nuts."--Barney Frank 01/02/2012

    by cany on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 09:54:14 PM PST

    •  We don't change the world demographics at a time, (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mightymouse, createpeace

      but one person at a time. And I've found it's really hard to change the world when the person in front of me won't listen to me.

      And yeah, me too about racism. I grew up with that stuff all around me. I don't remain quiet. But there's a way to speak up so that you're heard too.

      I thought that was obvious. Maybe it's just obvious to us, eh?

      © grover


      So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

      by grover on Tue Nov 06, 2012 at 02:03:23 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  You might also ask... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Ender, greengemini, OLinda, createpeace

    Why didn't the Obama campaign and liberal groups use voting lists to target Southern white males this election? Why didn't liberals knock on all those doors, made sure the white Southern males were registered, and made sure they all voted?  Why didn't they take the time to find one issue that they could use to initiate a conversation with each and every Southern male?
    Perhaps they knew (as I know being a white, male, liberal living 30 years in the South) it is not worth expending your time, your effort or your breath on what in most (not all, but most) cases is a lost cause.

  •  I found this amusing (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tojojo, Udestedt

  •  Back from another Coal Port scoping hearing (4+ / 0-)

    this time in Burlington, at Skagit Valley College. Arrived to find an overflow crowd. More later.

    "We don't need someone who can think. We need someone with enough digits to hold a pen." ~ Grover Norquist

    by Lefty Coaster on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 10:11:15 PM PST

  •  We need non-profit news sources - lots of them (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    fuzzyguy

    This poll from the posted article shows that non-paycheck fatcats aren't trusted by southern folk either.

    Reuter's Poll:
    The white Southern man, even GOP-leaning, has never liked fatcats. Reuters/Ipsos polls during this election cycle throughout the Bible Belt reveal a large chunk -- 38 percent –who say they would be less likely to vote for a candidate who is "very wealthy" than one who isn't. That’s a lot more than the 20 percent who admit that they would be less inclined to vote for an African-American. - emphasis added
    Those same fatcats, who own the airwaves, are the same that spend every minute creating catagories, divisions, labels etc. amongst the strongest uniting common thread we all possess- we're working folk.

    That If we could get factual information and spend our energy focusing on those issues we care about, fatcats woud no longer make the rules, we would - workers right & left, north & south

    One issue like the environment as Lynn Stuart talks of her boyfriends father and his ranch and the land he loves and protects.

    There would still be 20% that probably hold their racial prejudice to close, but they won't live forever and with good clean information the youth will have much better choices for their future imo

  •  We could learn a lot from Lynn's comment (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mightymouse

    I don't know the first thing about her, but I think what she is saying is incredibly valid on many, many levels, about how we, ourselves, all too often create division where there could be some commonalities found despite bad history. I dislike when politics become overly divisive, even when the other side "started it first." There's validity, of course, in the (deep) criticisms of the South holding racially problematic values, but there is a lot of unacknowledged problems with the rest of the Country not trying to critically understand the society and culture and values of what it means to grow up imbued in Southern culture. Personally, I can identify with some of this because I live in a pretty rural area and many here, especially the older generations, are pretty traditional about certain things. When in any culture that is not my own, I try to find points of connection rather than disparity, and thus I loathe arguing and moreso fingerpointing. At any rate, I do like this piece you've posted. It has a lot of food for thought in it. My husband grew up (in part) in the South, and I've traveled a lot down there, even as a very countercultural and Leftist sort of person, a Jew no less! But so much more often than not, I've felt able to find something to connect over. Why I recall being at my father-in-law's house in a rural part of the South. He's a Republican and a church-goer, of course, and it was a little awkward because he and his wife were making some fun of me for not eating pork. Finally, I had them show me around their property, which is filled with gorgeous forests, and we found an arrowhead in the creekbed and some bones which we brought back up to the house and boiled in a bit of bleach to take home. I stayed cordial and thought nothing of the pork-jabs and other little ribbing, some of which was, of course, political, and by the end, I was exchanging recipes with the mother-in-law, who gave me herbs from her garden to take home.

    So I think I know what that article means in so many ways. And I think it's worth thinking about more. Especially when we're talking online and expressing ourselves, are we any better than anyone else when we are so willing to dismiss peoples' entire heritage by snearingly saying "The South"? Honestly... it is a beautiful, robust area filled with a history as checkered as any other, and a present with all of the same problems the rest of us experience no matter where we live.

    Vote YES on Prop. 30, California!!!! Yes on 30, No on 32 & 38. For the future of education.

    by mahakali overdrive on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 10:19:05 PM PST

  •  NASCAR Sucks, Rapture Is Bullshit, What Civil War? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    greengemini, tobendaro, createpeace

    No really, my folks retired to Florida an asked "What is the Rapture?"  I said "Don't worry it's comic book bullshit that nobody north of the mason-dixon line believes."   And my mom was on the board of a couple churches, so she's hardly an agnostic..

    And their neighbor went to Gettysburg and came back all ready to shell Ft. Sumter, like the war ended last week.  We had relatives die in the Civil War on the Union side, but only the family geneology buffs know about it.  It's not like we're carrying a grudge about it.

    There’s always free cheddar in a mousetrap, baby

    by bernardpliers on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 10:21:14 PM PST

  •  Craig Ferguson: IF YOU DON'T VOTE YOU'RE A MORON (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dsb, jan4insight, wesman94

    The host of the Late Late Show, Craig is a naturalized citizen. In this minute-long video, he explains why Americans have a civic duty to vote.

    I think this is still marvelous and funny, and hope y'all will post it on your other social media.

    VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTE

    It's not just a zip code, it's an attitude.

    by sboucher on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 10:31:25 PM PST

  •  Do we really need to deal with (0+ / 0-)

    Ms Parramore tonight?  I mean, really, MB:  everyone's on edge, and it may not be the best moment to think of ways to work with the demographic that others ( media) have identified as Romney's base.  Tonight, I really don't care what the rednecks -- of whatever geographic location or race-- are doing unless they're getting ready to vote for our candidate tomorrow.  

    Of course, tomorrow I'm not going to care about those folks, either, unless they voted for Obama.  Art is long, life is short, etc.  

  •  I am feeling so horrible right now. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OLinda, moira977, tobendaro

    Its not that im worried about the election (though I am a bit nervous about the outcome.) or about voting... Its my anxiety disorder.

    I will spend hours dreading walking to the store for a soda before getting the courage. This is a lot more important, and I think i'm going to throw up at some point.

    It takes all my willpower to even convince myself to go. I was like this the last three elections, and I did indeed go for them. And im sure I will for this one..

    But just like before, I'm so upset that I'm preemptively inventing reasons not to bother.

    I really don't like feeling this way. Im nervous about even talking about it, because it seems so silly.. But im certain trying to ignore it wont help either.

    The only interesting thing is that my anxiety levels are so high, as to make having a panic attack impossible. The external difficulty is so apparent.

    No chance ill be getting any rest tonight. Thankfully I filled out my sample ballot dealie a couple days back, when i was coherent enough to recognize the soaring anxiety.

     I dont really know what I want anyone to respond with. IF theres anything anyone could respond with. I just needed to say it.

    I WILL be going, despite how much I don't want to right now. I'll regret it if I dont. Sorry for rambling on like this... Its just gotten to that very very upsetting piont.

    Then you came out all of a sudden and said, "You're Prism Indigo!" but I don't get it...

    by kamrom on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 11:02:18 PM PST

    •  anxiety (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      moira977

      I want to say it will all be fine once you get going, but maybe I should say, it will be great when you find you are back at home and have voted!!

      Sorry you are going through this, but proud of you for putting such importance on voting and forcing yourself out. Thank you for voting!

      Does your state have mail in ballots? Can you sign up to get mail in ballots in the future?

      Just Win, Baby. -- Al Rodgers, Feb. 24, 2012

      by OLinda on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 11:21:35 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  kamron (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      moira977

      Another thought is that I think all states have procedures in place for people with disabilities. A poll worker can sometimes bring the ballot to the person in the car to fill out. If you don't drive, perhaps if you call ahead someone can bring it to you outside or let you in so you don't have to wait in line.

      It might be worth calling your polling location tomorrow, explain that you have this anxiety and ask them if they can help you vote. Maybe they can just help to get you in and out faster.

      Good luck. I'll be thinking about you.

       

      Just Win, Baby. -- Al Rodgers, Feb. 24, 2012

      by OLinda on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 11:29:52 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Possible phonebanking tactic? (0+ / 0-)

    This willl probably get lost in the back of the line here, but I wonder if it might be worth pointing out to the stray Republican I might encounter while phonebanking that they're voting for a Massachusetts intellectual and flip-flopper who created Obamacare and wants to raise his or her taxes (I'd expect whoever is rich enough to not get hurt by this would have a secretary or butler filtering calls)? Not to mention that he's a cult-worshipper (at least according to Billy Graham). Of course, all of these things are true, meaning they might cause fatal cognitive dissonance for whoever I have the pleasure of warning.

    Romney flip-flopped far more than Kerry ever did.

    by tojojo on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 11:09:39 PM PST

    •  BTW, I'm using the term "intellectual" (0+ / 0-)

      VERY VERY loosely above.

      Romney flip-flopped far more than Kerry ever did.

      by tojojo on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 11:10:36 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  They really don't care about Romney. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tobendaro, tojojo

      This election is all about sticking it to Obama. They'd vote for a piece of wood if it were running against the President. In another year, maybe a useful tactic.

      What's that black smoke risin' Jack, is the world on fire?

      by Reckoner on Tue Nov 06, 2012 at 12:04:12 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Sure. As long as you're certain that President (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tojojo

      Obama would say EXACTLY THOSE WORDS.

      Don't forget you're his representative out there and everything you say, they'll believe he authorized.

      :)

      © grover


      So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

      by grover on Tue Nov 06, 2012 at 02:06:33 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  On This Election Eve (0+ / 0-)

    On this election Eve, I will tell you. I voted for a man who governed well, and steered the ship clear of the shoals. I voted for an honest, forthright man, who seems to be doing the best he can to save our country when others would disregard the welfare of Americans. I see Mitt Romney as dishonest a person as I have ever seen in politics, and I've seen Richard Nixon! We do not want the ugly,
    race- and gender- baiting and suppression that would entail! It is - to paraphrase Louis Black, 69th on our list! Right under, "are we eating too much garlic as a people?"
    All kidding aside, some of you are missing out on a unique opportunity, if you fail to see competence in governance as demonstrated by President Obama.

    Tonight, the question lies in the balance: I hope Obama wins, so we can get back to an America that includes all of America. An America that is prepared to solve the problems facing us today. I am sorry, but I don't have confidence in anything associated with either Mitt Romney, or George W. Bush. No way!

    To me, the turning point in the Romney campaign was when they invited neither GW nor Cheney to the convention. I was like , "Well, they are saying the same things they were saying, why are they disavowing themselves of their persons?" I could not figure that out. It was like they were in love with the ghost of Reagan, but also of a fevered dream of how it would be: an Ayn Rand utopia. Or dystopia.

    I read Ayn Rand - three books, at least - her philosophy works out if people like Hank Reardon are moral people. It doesn't work out so well if they are like, say Tom DeLay. Which too many are.

    So I voted for the proven guy who at least stopped the SS GW Bush Titanic from sinking. I am not sure other presidents could have done that. I am pretty sure that some presidents who had the chance did not kill bin Laden.

    I voted for the guy who did.

  •  Can't counter a story with facts? (0+ / 0-)

    That's just weak!  (Most) Southern men, then, are weak (and cowardly).  Of course, they are; I grew up with them--and to a man, they proved themselves too weak to oppose the pack.  Ignorance is strength, you know.

    Old Hippies Never Give Up!

    by ravenrdr on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 11:16:42 PM PST

  •  My joy. "The Battle ground states"... (0+ / 0-)

    will, in a matter of hours, be a phrase that will mercifully fall into disuse. Please tell me that is true.

    P.S. The first pundit I hear laps into the moronic histrionics of "what should have been done", I will permanently  fix the volume on my T.V. in the off position.

  •  There's a term for Parramore's attitude: (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jgnyc

    Stockholm syndrome.

    Voter suppression is treason.

    by Troubadour on Mon Nov 05, 2012 at 11:40:13 PM PST

  •  Thank you for the Parramore link. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sharon Wraight

    Nice piece, though not one many progressive Democrats are likely to appreciate. While simplistic to generalize -- especially in a piece by Meteor Blades, who has made one of the best ongoing efforts to keep the reality of widespread and long-term unemployment in our minds -- it seems that few progressive Democrats care about persuading anybody of anything anymore.  Preach to the choir and ridicule everybody else, preferably with the volume on high.

    LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

    by dinotrac on Tue Nov 06, 2012 at 12:08:10 AM PST

  •  As a former New Yorker and current San Franciscan (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jgnyc, mightymouse, Unduna

    I find the story of the man the who loved the land (and landscape) around him and was in tune with every detail of it quite compelling.  I would love to meet people like that from all parts of the country and the world.

    Would they do the same for me in my inner-city post-industrial landscape that I love?  Even a lot of liberals/progressives dismiss my home environment.

  •  Only a Pawn in their Game (0+ / 0-)

    What is the percentage of "southern white male" ... uh ... racists(?) that would vote based on protecting the environment? They've been sold cartoon free market libertarianism and hate "union thugs". They cling to their guns and religion as a badge against all this liberal nonsense from FDR through LBJ that was only to help lazy welfare queens.

    Very little of their economic analysis is at all based on reality but the "personal responsibility" argument is very strong. Can we justify, without grey statistics, the welfare state we fight for? The left of center has been intellectually bankrupt since Nixon rolled back the Great Society. We don't have a way forward besides "defend the New Deal and EPA" and the centrist call to tinker around the edges with tax rates. Reading aloud from the ACA is not singing the Battle Hymn or The International (the later is actually an awful song). (... note the ACA is a "good thing", though just barely and was a sausage making disaster that we paid dearly for in 2010 which happened to be the redistricting year)

    We need an actual movement, not a generic coalition. Maybe the country is ready for government by human mic. Or not.

    If you didn't like the news today, go out and make some of your own.

    by jgnyc on Tue Nov 06, 2012 at 12:53:00 AM PST

  •  Dem party has been going rightward for 30 years (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OLinda

    Searching for common ground with the mythical southern white man has been the rationale for driving the Democratic party steadily rightward on the economic side for 30 years to the point where we a have a Democratic president whose economic and environmental policies are to the right of Richard Nixon.

    What did Clinton's DLC get us?  More income inequality!

    The southern white male voter is the shock trooper for Corporate America.  And where economic issues should obviously form common ground with Democrats nationally, the skewed white male support for Obama's opponent in the south shows that their racial funny bone makes them puppets on a string for Corporate America and the southern corporate stooges they keep electing. And whatever happy stories you want to tell about farms and hunting, their voting block is a major hindrance to real conservation.  

    Maybe the Democratic party should try some genuine populist policy making to counter the GOP counterfeit down there.  Wall Street first policies make it hard to point the finger at the GOP for being in the pockets of the super wealthy.

    And for you southern white men who aren't part of the voting block, more power to you.  I know you don't like being made fun of.  You speak the lingo. Why don't you try to find some common ground and turn your fellow SWMs around?  Last time significant numbers of northern whites went down try to engage in dialogue, a bunch of them got killed.

    •  Southern stereotyping still bothers me (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Unduna

      and I don't think ignorant Southerners should be the only group left where it is open season for degrading attacks.  Although in the modern SMW-supported GOP, open racism of other kinds is becoming more and more accepted again.

  •  So apparently I set my alarm clock the wrong way (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    grover, OLinda, parakinesis, mightymouse

    this weekend and got up 2 hrs, 15 min before the polls open, rather than 15 min before.  Bah.  Every other clock around the house resets itself :P

    •  YOu can make a few phone calls before heading out (0+ / 0-)

      to the polls.

      Bonus!

      GOTV!

      © grover


      So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

      by grover on Tue Nov 06, 2012 at 02:07:56 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Now that that's over, Free Bradley Manning (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OLinda, parakinesis

    "I'm not familiar precisely with exactly what I said, but I stand by what I said, whatever it was." Mittens

    by olo on Tue Nov 06, 2012 at 01:45:01 AM PST

  •  Talking to most men is not the issue. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tobendaro

    What men want is to talk and what they want next is for women to listen. Women exist to be told what to do. Whether or not they do it is their own business. That's what some women don't seem to understand -- that they don't have to be obedient. Maybe it's even a component of free speech that men can say any fool thing and count on it being ignored, if it's really stupid. Maybe God created woman as a fail-safe system. Men can be as reckless as they want as long as women are in charge of reproduction.

    We organize governments to provide benefits and prevent abuse.

    by hannah on Tue Nov 06, 2012 at 02:20:48 AM PST

  •  Axelrod =Tweet of the Month! (0+ / 0-)

    OMFG...that tweet will chap Dick's ass.

  •  Hope the lawyers have learned since 2004 (0+ / 0-)

    I remember how much hope I had for them in 2004 in Ohio and it was obviously inadequate. I hope they can do better this time because it's obvious the Rs are pulling every trick in their dirty book.

  •  I'm gonna vote my ass off today. (0+ / 0-)

    Gonna show y'all how it's done.  Gonna be one bad votin' muthashutyourmouth.

    Been a long time since I hit the Orange Satan.  I am moved to for a few reasons - I expect this will be one very taxing (heh, little joke there) election.  Hang on, it's just beginning!

  •  Not accurate. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tobendaro, mightymouse
    A gun-toting, rebel flag-waving racist whose sinister activities wreak far more havoc on the country than, say, the wily Wall Street financier.  
    They are worse than WS financiers because they are enablers.   If it wasn't for them, we would be able to stop and jail the WS financiers.  

    I go back to the previous book review.   I really think we should give the south another chance to secede.   I have no interest in "compromise" with crazy people.

    If money is speech, then speech must be money. Call your mortgage company and pay your rent now.

    by dkmich on Tue Nov 06, 2012 at 03:49:24 AM PST

  •  re. conservative white southern men (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tobendaro

    While I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment... sharing the story with them has its challenges.  If you cannot agree on basic facts... that Obama is not a Muslim, Kenyan socialist, was born in the USA, and is not secretly plotting to take away your guns... then how can you have a conversation?  If I say 2+3 = 5 and you respond that your math is different than my math, then how can we communicate?  

  •  Thank You MB (0+ / 0-)

    It's so hard to live in North Carolina with the southern white male & there rebel flag !

    I keep quiet most the time.

    Go Obama
    Go Biden
    Go Democrats

  •  Thank you (0+ / 0-)

    For highlighting this piece...it may be the most important thing I've read at dkos for progressives.

    Better late than never, hmm?

    Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel

    by a gilas girl on Tue Nov 06, 2012 at 04:19:39 AM PST

  •  i am one too (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tobendaro

    i am a Southern white man, and per the diary about long cultural memory and the need for a good story to counter the myth, well, SWM need to grow the fuck up.  If you can't understand the differences between the parties and think with your own goddamn mind then you are part of the problem and the reason why the stereotype still exists.  Think goddamn it!  That's why SWM have this stereotype, because a whole freakin' lot of us don't know HOW TO THINK.  Part of that is a failure of the political system where rich SWM want to keep everyone who isn't rich, whether they be black, white or brown, out of power and they accomplish this through a horribly underfunded education system and poorly functioning social service system.  This requires these states to get aid from the Federal gov't to cover the costs their OWN GODDAMN STATE refuses to cover.  And the pernicious result of this is that while at the same time the SWM (both politicians and the commoner) hate the Federal gov't taxes and "handouts" to those in need, they demand that the Federal gov't fund the services their states refuse to raise revenue for.  
    So, unlike the OTFNO diarist, i believe the SWM deserves a whole bunch of the blame they get and the stereotype about them that they allow to persist, because they don't do very much to counter it.  Far too many SWM are still enthralled by the idea that they are the ideal free and independent man and in love withe idea that they alone embody what is right and fair because their limited educational experience has hidden the larger truth from them: that we are all in this together and that everyone's actions have an effect on others.

  •  The Problem Is (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bontemps2012
    That’s what you do in the South if you grow up a liberal and don’t want to walk around being pissed off every minute of the day. You try to see if there’s something you might agree on with folks who don’t share your politics.
    My problem isn't with "southern men" as individuals. On a personal level they are some of the nicest people on earth. But when you put them together as a culture you get a culture in which you would walk around pissed off.

    That's a problem.

    And here's the story. We need to pull together as a society and move forward on the big issues. Take climate change. Those woods will go away if we don't do something about it. Take foreign trade. Free trade policies have cut earnings in half for the typical worker. Take healthcare. We pay at least 50% more than people in Europe and about three times as much as the people in China and India.

    One of the most appealing things about Southerners is that they care about what's "right". They want to do right and they want to be seen to do right. We (liberals) need to be very clear about what's right. And we need to appeal to that side of the South that wants to do be proud of their beliefs and their actions.

  •  Tiny note: North Dakota has no voter registration. (0+ / 0-)

    And if your ID is iffy, you have to sign an affidavit.

    Trusting people.

    Where "Fargo" is the cultural icon.

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