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You mean they really can't just flip a switch and steal the election?

You mean they really do play all their dirty tricks out in the open and its up to us to fight against them?

You mean Karl Rove and his Super Pacs aren't omniscient'

Let's be diligent, let's demand reform where it is needed, but let's also get over the PTSD from 2000 and 2004 and stop seeing an insurmountable conspiracy around every corner

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Comment Preferences

  •  Delete this. (10+ / 0-)

    It serves no other purpose but to marginalize us that don't trust Republicans to be honest.

    "Til you're so fucking crazy you can't follow their rules" John Lennon - Working Class Hero

    by Horace Boothroyd III on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 02:18:53 AM PST

    •  I would disagree. It serves to disempower Republi (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JMHarlan, sagesource, elmo

      cans. Ascribing to them more power than they have is not in our interest.

      He who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.

      by Sophie Amrain on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 02:28:05 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I found your pearls. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Kurt from CMH

      Stop the silliness. If you feel marginalized that's your issue. I agree with the diarist. So much hand-wringing on this site ... Every four years we are subjected to a diet of PTSD-induced paranoia that in my opinion reflects what we see in the voter fraud rants of the far right. And that's fine. Extremes make for good bookends. But "delete this?"  Seriously! That's almost as offensive as saying "go fuck yourself."  If you get my meaning.

      •  You certainly are all for marginalizing the (5+ / 0-)

        mentally ill I see.

        PTSD-induced paranoia
        Your indignation over my saying delete this would be more supported if you had not started your comment throwing insults at my sentence explaining why.

        Please provide a stronger argument than: here are some things to make you feel small now I will claim your statement is the highest of insults.

        I just don't understand why you would put in so much effort into a sentence and then spend it all not in discussion but to impugn me personally.

        "Til you're so fucking crazy you can't follow their rules" John Lennon - Working Class Hero

        by Horace Boothroyd III on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 03:06:10 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  HR-able ad-hom and use of ... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Sandino, Horace Boothroyd III

        ... psychiatric diagnostic labels as an ad-hom against fellow progressives.

        I'd throw you a donut myself but I'm in this fight, so I'll just tell you to go find a large blunt object and then sit on it and rotate.

        Thou shalt not vote on machines with invisible parts.

        by G2geek on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 05:49:35 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  it ought to serve as a warning (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Kurt from CMH, elmo

      And part of the warning should be not to pull the crap about being "us that don't trust Republicans to be honest." Some of the people posting here clearly did not know what they were talking about, plain and simple -- and some of them didn't hesitate to attack people who knew more. This never was about trusting Republicans.

      That kind of behavior is self-marginalizing. Too many people who said they worried about whether the votes would be counted accurately gave the impression that they had nothing useful to say about how people could secure their votes, and were mostly looking forward to telling other people off when Obama wuz robbed. This diary isn't pretty, but it should offer some insight into how some people perceived that behavior.

      Of course there were people who didn't do that at all. Some actually knew what they were talking about, or at least part of it, and didn't behave as if they were rehashing a flame war from 2005. Many recced up diaries that weren't very good, but didn't try to start a fight about it.

      To fix voting systems in particular, we need people who think about the issue regularly and carefully. Reccing up FUD and slamming its critics does not fit the bill. Daily Kos could easily do better than it did at times in the last few weeks, but it takes effort from all sides.

      Election protection: there's an app for that! -- and a toll-free hotline: 866-OUR-VOTE
      Better Know Your Voting System with the Verifier!

      by HudsonValleyMark on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 02:58:13 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Now is the time to get active to fix our voting (5+ / 0-)

        system and stop future efforts to suppress various groups. Please we need to not attack each other or get vested more in being right than in fixing problems.  My anxiety level went throught the roof to the point I felt actual chest pain... I am certain that everyone who was concerned was genuinely concerned and worried. Sometimes it is the ones who are  fueling anxiety at the wrong moment that make it worse even while alerting others to possibilities.

        I would like to see an end to any potential problem with voting machines. I would like to see limits on ads and funds. Can anyone explain to me WHY whoever has the most cash usually wins... and to work to change the influence of money. Can we come up with good solutions that we can pass on to our elected pols. Can we pressure an end to the misery and anxiety that passes for a campaign? Probably not but we can lower the raging.

        I fully expect next week for us to be at our newly chosen pols... LOL

        How can you tell when Rmoney is lying? His lips are moving. Fear is the Mind Killer

        by boophus on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 03:22:02 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  I want to thank you personally (0+ / 0-)

        for all the work you did here in the last few weeks on this issue. Your comments were always sound and reasonable, something that was sorely needed.

    •  The diarist makes a valid point. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      johnny wurster, elmo, VClib

      Folks on this site made allegations (without any empirical evidence---only speculation and distant business connections) that Ohio wouldn't be fixed, and such a thing never came to pass.

      I thought this was a reality-based community. If we can't air the fact that this voting machine crap was egregiously wrong, should we just let any convenient sounding CT nonsense float around this site unchecked?

      If people don't like being called out for believing that bullshit, they shouldn't have believed it in the first place. Take your medicine.

      Compassion is not weakness, and concern for the unfortunate is not socialism.

      by Zutroy on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 04:06:09 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Excuse me, WOULD be fixed. n/t (0+ / 0-)

        Compassion is not weakness, and concern for the unfortunate is not socialism.

        by Zutroy on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 04:07:49 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Reality (4+ / 0-)

        is that having one of the candidates' families own the voting machines is such a conflict of interest it should not be permitted to happen.

      •  Voting machines have problems (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Horace Boothroyd III, Sandino

        And that has been well documented. The fact that Tagg could own a company that counts our votes has the appearance of a problem even if it did not turn into an actual problem.

        I agree with the people saying that we need to have uniform voting standards across the country, and that we need to minimize the possibility of problems.

        Forcing people to wait for hours is a problem that should be fixed. Forcing citizens to spend time and money to prove that they are allowed to vote should be changed. Making sure that we have elections that can be recounted and that are recounted is also important.

        It's more important to be accurate than it is to be fast. I would prefer a process that caused us to wait a week or two to count the ballots than one that could be manipulated.

    •  note diarist's userID number. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Sandino, Horace Boothroyd III

      342,420.  

      I would HR the TJ if I wasn't directly involved in this fight.

      IMHO diarist is an arsehole and is doing the Rs dirty work for them whether he knows it or not, and whether he likes it or not.

      Thou shalt not vote on machines with invisible parts.

      by G2geek on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 06:00:31 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  It is my firm belief (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        G2geek, Sandino

        that the choice of subject and timing of this post may not have been done with the highest of motives.

        "Til you're so fucking crazy you can't follow their rules" John Lennon - Working Class Hero

        by Horace Boothroyd III on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 06:23:51 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Look, you were wrong, ok? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          VClib

          The voting machines were not fixed to flip votes and the election to Romney. It didn't happen.

          Now, either you have to concoct some theory about why it didn't happen, or you have to consider the possibility that maybe, just maybe, the idea of a shadowy vote rigging scheme was fear based and not fact based.

          I think this morning is exactly the time to be talking about it. Otherwise, the vote rigging theory will only be mothballed and hauled out again for the next election.

          •  more bovine excrement on a shingle. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Horace Boothroyd III, Sandino

            Your house wasn't burglarized thus there are no burglars.

            You didn't get in an accident when you drove drunk so therefore drunk driving is safe.

            You're not a lawyer but your friend took your legal advice when he filed for divorce and he's doing OK.

            You felt better after taking homeopathic magic placebos, so therefore homeopathy works.  

            Know what?  I'd seriously suggest that people who are bat-shit ignorant about technology should shut their mooses about things they don't know jack doodley squat about, because otherwise their smug attitudes are going to come back to bite them sooner than later.

            By the way, don't write your PIN number on the back of your ATM card, OK?  

            Thou shalt not vote on machines with invisible parts.

            by G2geek on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 06:48:13 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Why are you insisting I'm wrong (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Sandino

            on Ohio this year when all the votes have not been counted yet and there has been no examination of the software yet?

            Why aren't you waiting for an investigation to be completed on the software patches before you declare them benign even though they were snuck in?

            Why are you in such a hurry to get people to ignore valid questions?

            "Til you're so fucking crazy you can't follow their rules" John Lennon - Working Class Hero

            by Horace Boothroyd III on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 06:48:14 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  wow, see exhibits A and B to support my diary (0+ / 0-)

          Now, I'm some Republican plant because I'm calling out unfounded paranoid and unproductive speculation, and an obsession with the power attributed to the other side.

          What the hell does my userID have to do with anything? Why don't you check ALL of my comment history before you comment, and make yourself sound even MORE like a tin foil hatter?  

  •   Q the circular firing squad! Bayonets, horses? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sandino, G2geek, Kingsmeg

    and what they might have tried were the election closer?
    No?
     and you know exactly what they did?

     Or maybe it wasn't legitimately  this close?
      You know whether it had any effect on the attention and fast reactions to Penn,  Fla and Ohio SoS decisions?

    keep gloating then...I am really glad we won as widely and as big as we did., whatever they did or did not do or think of or try.
    And I am glad good people are aware of these tricks and watch for them.

    Nobody knows if that helped or hurt.

     Your anti CT is as unfounded as the CT's you think you are complaining about.

    And thanks for the circular firing squad diary.
    That's as predictable as people worrying about voting fraud and tricks.

    Me, happy as hell we did what we did.  
       

    This machine kills Fascists.

    by KenBee on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 03:11:39 AM PST

    •  Whoa, there (0+ / 0-)
      Your anti CT is as unfounded as the CT's you think you are complaining about.
      That's like saying the people who believe there actually was a moon landing are just as unfounded in their belief as those who believe it was faked.

      Um, nope.

  •  Smug but stupid (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Horace Boothroyd III, G2geek

    delete this.

  •  so you think (3+ / 0-)

    That because the President won, that somehow means the election in Ohio was on the up & up? I guess that kind of logic is why vulnerabilities in the accuracy of our elections will continue to be an issue.

  •  but the green party lost. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Kurt from CMH, elmo, VClib

    there's no way to explain that except with an overly complex network of ownership and software patches.

  •  Agree totally (4+ / 0-)

    After a morning canvassing shift in OH yesterday I returned to the OFA center to find people obsessing over the viral vote-switch video. Not to exaggerate, but that leans away from an empowering "we got this, press on" vibe toward a dysfunctional "oh my god, nefarious forces beyond our control are sapping our precious bodily fluids."

    Beyond that, of course it's absurd on its face that that would be the mechanism for rigging the machines.

    In Ohio, the last time there were major voting machine issues was 2004 when lever and punch card machine issues (namely that they take more time to vote and there were fewer of them) led to extremely long lines and disenfranchisement.

    Since then we've had lots of the touchscreen machines, lines have not been a problem, and we elected Sherrod Brown in 2006 and helped elect Obama twice.

    •  and you have standing on this issue (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      elmo

      For folks who don't know, Joe Knapp was one of the first -- if not the first, as I believe -- to document the ghastly correlation between undervotes and % black in Cuyahoga County in 2004. Hardly a knee-jerk what-me-worry type.

      We don't need to declare a winner in the meta war, but we really ought to declare some losers.

      Election protection: there's an app for that! -- and a toll-free hotline: 866-OUR-VOTE
      Better Know Your Voting System with the Verifier!

      by HudsonValleyMark on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 06:06:15 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I was called a lot of names (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rebop, elmo, VClib, MRDFS

    by the CT crowd, hide-rated, bullied, all for merely pointing out that in the real world, their theories fell apart.  All along, I just repeated my mantra: you have no proof, you have only fear.  We need to worry about the real stuff the Rs do... like voter suppression, intimidation, and lame ID laws.  Can we finally admit that the Rs don't have a magic bullet?

    •  fuck that straw man bullshit. (3+ / 0-)

      Tech professional all my life here to say that it does not take a conspiracy to fuck up a system.  

      The vulnerabilities are well known and documented.

      The methods of hacking are well known and documented.

      The systems are so piss-poor that any single individual with coder skillz could fuck up an entire state's voting machines without leaving a trace.  

      So take your conspiracy straw-man and stuff it.  

      And by the way, with your smug little attitude about system security, I wouldn't be surprised if you used 1234 or something equally idiotic as your ATM password and voicemail password.  So if I were you I'd change my passwords before the inevitable happens (and that is not a threat, it's a weather forecast).  

      Oh, but if you do change your passwords you'll be conceding your arguement!

      Heh heh.  Double-bind!  Enjoy the brain crash!

      Thou shalt not vote on machines with invisible parts.

      by G2geek on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 05:56:54 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm just appalled there are people that think (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        G2geek, Sandino

        code is sacrosanct and uncorruptible.

        Don't they teach GIGO anymore?

        "Til you're so fucking crazy you can't follow their rules" John Lennon - Working Class Hero

        by Horace Boothroyd III on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 06:29:15 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yah really. It's the cult of shiny. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Horace Boothroyd III, Sandino

          "Ooooh look, I have a shiny consumer thing that makes me feel good when I stroke it!  Computers can do no wrong!"

          Shit, even that's a Rube Goldberg approach to a simple problem.  Everyone's got a built-in thing that makes them feel good when they stroke it, and it doesn't need batteries.  

          Thou shalt not vote on machines with invisible parts.

          by G2geek on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 06:42:49 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  What is really sad is my education (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            G2geek, Sandino

            hasn't gone beyond BASIC and I can see this.

            "Til you're so fucking crazy you can't follow their rules" John Lennon - Working Class Hero

            by Horace Boothroyd III on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 06:50:53 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Talk about a straw man... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            MRDFS

            The argument was never about whether computers were shiny cool objects that could do no wrong.  No one on my side of this argument ever suggested such a silly thing.

            It was about whether an organized conspiracy exists to exploit the loopholes you pointed out.

            I'm still waiting to hear whether these election results are an indication of the presence of, or lack of, said conspiracy.  The fact that the President won seems to indicate the latter, but I'll listen to evidence of the former if you have it.

             

            •  that arguement is a non-sequitur. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Sandino

              The election results in and of themselves prove exactly nothing about the voting machines.  The only way that one could prove anything about the impact of these voting machines on this election would be through various forms of testing, ranging from an examination of the source code (which we are prohibited from doing by the manufacturer), to a statistical examination of the differences between exit polls and reported vote totals in machine districts vs. paper ballot districts.  

              My entire point is that the known and widely published security flaws in the voting machines are sufficient unto themselves to demonstrate that those machines are not trustworthy, and that those machines are a constructive nuisance which means an obvious attractant of trouble, so therefore the most effective way to minimize these risks is via paper ballots, counted by hand, and subject to webcam surveillance broadcast online.

              Pooh-poohing nonexistent CT is a strawman tactic that serves no good purpose and is so obviously illogical that it calls into question the motives for the arguement.

              "Shiny computers can do no wrong" is one guess as to a motive for the arguement.   It's a viable explanation for Wired Magazine, whose editorial policy appears to enjoy relentlessly stroking consumer shinies of all kinds.  Whether it's a viable explanation here remains to be seen.

              Thou shalt not vote on machines with invisible parts.

              by G2geek on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 08:11:47 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

      •  do you have any personal experience (0+ / 0-)

        or knowledge about voting systems in particular? Ever volunteered to be a pollworker, and got an eyeful of how they actually do things, even just in your own precinct?

      •  One last time: (0+ / 0-)

        My argument was never about whether a system could be hacked.  It was about whether there was a conspiracy to hack it.  There wasn't.  You were wrong.

        You are no doubt a sterling tech expert.  However, you can be wrong about other things.  You are also human, and subject to fears, but you can't let those fears overwhelm your logical side.  It is perfectly possible that someone could break into your house.  The man standing on the corner could indeed be a thief.  More likely, he is not.  The chances are very much against it.  Lock your house, certainly, but don't spend your time patrolling the halls with a gun 24 / 7.  

        I've admitted before that I am not a software expert.  I am technically proficient in other ways- I repair and restore vintage tube radios and antique machines, so I'm much more on the analog side of things.  But my arguments against your premise were never from a technical standpoint.  I agree... systems are hackable.  I never said otherwise.  My argument was always that such an operation was unlikely.  As Obama has been re-elected and won Ohio in the process, my point of view is validated, and yours is not.  

        This is also the second time you've tried to (bizarrely) insult me by claiming that my passwords must be easy to crack.  I explained my method for choosing passwords in that other diary, in a comment you never responded to.  I can assure you that, as a person who works in a creative field full-time, and able to consult with friends who are, like yourself, computer security experts, I have a pretty good system for creating passwords.  

        Since you seem to be eager to try me, here you go:  I have an account at a brokerage firm.  Message me for the company name and my user name there.  I want you to go on over and crack my account.  My password hasn't changed for five years, and will not change.  It is twelve characters.  If you can crack it, do something fun like sell a couple grand of my stock and buy something else.  In fact, I've been looking for more investment in the tech sector, and if you have a good tip, now's the time to show me.  

        So let's do it.  Please, show me how un-secure I am, and how un-creative.  

        I'll be waiting expectantly.  

      •  To save you the trouble of looking it up, (0+ / 0-)

        Here's what I wrote about password selection:

        What I do is mentally associate the thing I'm making a password for with an object.  The object has nothing to do with anything, it's just whatever pops into my head.  I spend a few minutes making a good strong mental link between the two.  Then I invent a short nonsense sentence involving the object, into which I deliberately introduce misspellings, numbers, and character inversions in a pattern I've practiced.  I end up with a long string of alphanumerics that I can always recall but which looks like gibberish written down.  
        What do you think?  Is this secure, or lame?  
  •  Actually I think they did steal votes (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    G2geek, Sandino, Kingsmeg

    in Ohio, the margin their was less than the consensus polling, and when even repub internals have the margin at five points just before the election, I find the ultimate tightness of the race highly suspicious.

    •  Basically we overwhelmed them AGAIN. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Sandino, Horace Boothroyd III

      We went from a tsunami to a maybe sort-of mandate.  

      But a win is still a win, and Obama mentioned doing something about "long lines in polling places" which is moderate Democratic codespeak for fixing the election system in general.

      So now we have our chance.  And we need to pounce on this, with enough Dear Mr. President emails that at least one of them gets on his desk.  

      Thou shalt not vote on machines with invisible parts.

      by G2geek on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 05:58:51 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  oh lord, not again (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      elmo

      Nate Silver put the poll margin at 3.0, adjusted 3.8. Pollster's model estimate was 3.4. We'll see what the final margin is, and scrutinize the returns. But this...

      when even repub internals have the margin at five points just before the election
      is weird.

      Election protection: there's an app for that! -- and a toll-free hotline: 866-OUR-VOTE
      Better Know Your Voting System with the Verifier!

      by HudsonValleyMark on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 06:22:15 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Look, the Rs pulled a lot of crap (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    G2geek, Sandino, Horace Boothroyd III

    I think it's important to be vigilant in all areas.

    I don't know much about software patches, but as OFA and the ACLU were not arguing for them being thrown out I was less worried about them.

    Nevertheless, I don't think it's appropriate to denigrate those who were worried.  These types of concerns are what lead to investigations.  Sometimes the investigations turn up nada.  Other times what we see originally turns out to be the tip of the iceberg.

    www.tapestryofbronze.com

    by chloris creator on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 05:42:51 AM PST

  •  Not so fast (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sandino

    being lucky enough to outvote any capacity they may have had to game the results - does not mean problems do not still remain.

    Is Ohio really "naturally" this close?

    If not us ... who? If not here ... where? If not now ... when?

    by RUNDOWN on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 05:53:42 AM PST

  •  MRDFS gets it. He/She (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    HudsonValleyMark, elmo

    posted the diary that I was going to post.  Maybe the language is a little awkward, but it is addressed to Harvey Wasserman, Bob Fitrakis, and all the other CT Chicken Littles on this site who thought-- or maybe were hoping?-- that Tagg Romney or Jon Husted or Rick Scott were going to get away with ratf*cking this election.  It didn't happen, folks.

    Even Fitrakis' last minute publicity stunt to conflate an ES&S software "patch"/program/"warez"/whatever into a federal case results in an utter FAIL.  What happened in Ohio last night?  

    Barack Obama carried the state. And won re-election.

    Sherrod Brown won re-election.

    Tuesday night became Wednesday morning, and there was no ratf*cking the vote in Ohio.  If there was ever any such conspiracy.

    If Bob and Harvey take calls on their show on Saturday morning, I am going to call in and lay down some smack.

    THIS JUST IN: Burger King announces a new sandwich: THE JOSH MANDEL PANTS ON FIRE WHOPPER! Two patties of BS covered in steak sauce, young cheese and no vegetables. No substance there, just bite!

    by Kurt from CMH on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 06:02:46 AM PST

    •  maybe we need to explain it better (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      elmo, Kurt from CMH

      I think I work as hard as anyone on the site to take a fair-minded approach on these issues -- not just one side in a meta war. I certainly never slammed anyone for merely being worried about voting systems. A lot of the systems and procedures stink.

      But some outrageously stupid claims were made, and a bunch of them were massively recced. There is no use pretending that it was all about denialist bullies trying to pound down people who were Just Asking Questions. That right there really is CT disease.

      Election protection: there's an app for that! -- and a toll-free hotline: 866-OUR-VOTE
      Better Know Your Voting System with the Verifier!

      by HudsonValleyMark on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 06:27:11 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  You guys really don't get it (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Horace Boothroyd III

      No reasonable claims were ever put forth that the potential electronic skullduggery made possible by privately controlled voting and tabulation systems with demonstrably poor security could exceed 1 or 2% of the vote.  I can understand that some feel that discussion of the technical possibilities will have a negative psychological effect on some voters. Until full transparency and accountability are standard in all phases of the election, from registration to recount, there will always be gaps to be exploited, and only by our own vigilance can we detect and protect against election tampering. Trust but verify, right?

      •  Sure, trust but verify (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Sandino

        I really don't like DRE voting systems; I really prefer that all voters use paper ballots that are read by optical scanning equipment so that if there's any doubt about the result, you have a physical record of the ballot to fall back on to do a manual count.  This is why in Franklin County, Ohio, where I live, I prefer to vote by absentee ballot which is a paper ballot that is optically scanned at the Board of Elections.  I don't like using the iVotronic because there is only a paper trail generated by the machine itself which may not be reliable.

        Having said that, Fitrakis and Wasserman posted several stories on Freepress.org that raised questions about this software "patch" that was actually merely a program that the SoS requested to help tabulate the results more quickly for upload to the SoS database.  The objections that Fitrakis and Wasserman raised were legitimate, but there is an important safeguard against this patch/program/routine: the tabulation of the vote at the County Board of Elections.  You see, this is where in Ohio the actual votes are counted for every precinct across the state.  If there was ever any difference between what the SoS reported as the totals statewide that was at variance with what the boards of elections reported, the burden of proof would be on the new program to show that it was not faulty.  And perhaps it was important to alert people to this, but I think Fitrakis used this to generate a publicity stunt for himself and the Green Party.  The risk is that instead of preserving the integrity of the vote, it could have thrown us into a situation much like in 2000 where Ohio and the presidential election is in limbo for days or weeks while this red herring is litigated in the courts.  I don't think I have to finish my thought of what might have happened.  Thankfully Obama won the state and this was not a factor.

        THIS JUST IN: Burger King announces a new sandwich: THE JOSH MANDEL PANTS ON FIRE WHOPPER! Two patties of BS covered in steak sauce, young cheese and no vegetables. No substance there, just bite!

        by Kurt from CMH on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 06:48:07 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Conditions were not met: (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Horace Boothroyd III, Sandino

    1) Ohio would have had to be enough to swing the election to Romney

    2) Margin of Obama's win in Ohio had to be small enough to give a veneer of plausibility to a late-night switch.

    They can't pull crap like this unless they know they can get away with it; with Obama winning regardless, they didn't dare risk another late-night "Oh look!  I just found another 200,000 GOP votes!"  Because someone might actually investigate.

    190 milliseconds....

    by Kingsmeg on Wed Nov 07, 2012 at 06:43:46 AM PST

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