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We're starting to hear it over and over again. If the GOP would just grace the Spanish speaking media markets with bigoted social messages they would do better:

Redstate:

It does mean that a group that is a natural fit for the GOP on social issues, must in someway be made to feel comfortable with the GOP."
Indeed, they've thought this for years. Here's an article quoting Ronald Reagan:
In 1984, Ronald Reagan pointed out to his friend, Lionel Sosa, that conservatives needed to "remind Latinos that they are Republicans; they just don't know it yet." The basis of his observation was that Latinos are socially conservative and that in time they would realize that their conservatism was most in line with Republican politics. This hasn't happened yet -- certainly not this year -- but will it happen in the near future?
A Washington Post blog in December of last year even asserted that a certain percentage of Hispanics are social conservatives....without attribution, of course:
Despite Republicans losing the Hispanic vote in every presidential election back to 1972, Hispanic views on abortion and religion, immigrant deportations and jobs offer potential avenues to winning Republicans support. Hispanics express greater opposition to abortion than the public overall, and more than six in 10 say religion is very important in their lives, compared with about half of all those who lean Democratic and just over four in 10 white Democrats.
There is no doubt that courting the socially conservative Hispanic will be the next thing they will try. And they'll also try to pick off the more affluent Latinos, using their typical anti-tax, anti-big government messages. Fortunately it won't work. Let's visit the other side of the orange Schnoerkel to find out why:

1. Abortion rights. One would think that since most of this group is Catholic, most of them would be anti-choice.  And there's also that troublesome assertion from the WaPo above! But there is completely conflicting data on this, and fortunately more recent.
First, from the Huffington Post in January:

A majority of Latino voters -- 74 percent -- agree that a woman has a right to make her own personal decisions about abortion without the interference of government, according to a recent survey by the National Latina Institute for Reproductive Health and the Reproductive Health Technologies Project. The data shows that a majority of Latinos in the U.S. hold a sympathetic view in regards to abortion.
There's also the ABC News exit poll from Tuesday:
Exit poll results found that about two-thirds of Hispanics (66%) said that abortion should be legal while 28% disagreed.  Among all voters, a somewhat smaller majority (59%) would allow legal abortions while 37% were opposed.
2. Gay Rights. After all, minorities hate teh Gay, right? I'm sure it's a characterization many of us believe, considering the 50/50 LA County vote on Proposition 8 in California, and a "National Election Pool" exit poll which showed more than half of Latinos supported it. Even though the NEP exit poll may or may not have been terribly accurate, according to later studies, the Washington Times printed it, thus the conservatives will believe it. At any rate, whatever one thinks of the Latino vote in 2008, there is ample evidence to believe that the subject group has come around on this issue as much as the overall voting populace has. To wit:

ABC News Exit Poll

Nearly six-in-ten Latino voters (59%) said their state should legally recognize same-sex marriage while 32% said their state should not.  But among all voters, about half (48%) favored legalization of gay marriage while nearly the same share said they would oppose it (47%).

Non-Hispanic whites were the most opposed to states legally sanctioning same-sex marriage (47% favored but 50% were opposed). Among blacks, half (52%) would support while 40% opposed state support for gay unions.

Okay, so now it's really just white evangelicals who hate us gays, I'm glad to say. And it looks like they won't find any sympathy elsewhere! So what other Latino beliefs on "social issues" might be a "natural fit" for the Republican Party?

3. Immigration? Do I really need to go into this? I'll point out that any GOPer who ends up offering guest worker programs or something like that will be eviscerated and eliminated from the primaries. And at any rate, anything the GOP offers to try and attract Latinos will be co-opted by the Democrats anyway.

4. Education? I think there's some potential here for the GOP. Schools in poor minority areas have historically underachieved. There is a perception that Democrats have done nothing about this. Republicans have offered "fresh, new ideas," which while fresh and new aren't necessarily any better and are probably worse. But as long as the complete data set isn't in, it's an issue that might be exploited.

But let's be real. When Republicans say "social issues," they're talking about abortion and gay rights. And they imagine that the numbers are in their favor because Latinos are Catholics and thus they must be Republicans without knowing it yet.  But the real and most recent numbers tell a different story that will provide real comfort to Democrats and would provide real distress to Republicans were they not such good deniers.

The meme that the GOP is a natural fit for Hispanics needs to be squashed. I encourage you to cite numbers in response to any media where you might find it!
 

Originally posted to Doug in SF on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 12:45 PM PST.

Also republished by LatinoKos and Community Spotlight.

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Comment Preferences

  •  I think there are a significant number of Latinos (15+ / 0-)

    who are evangelicals -- but like your WaPo article, I don't have any source for this.
    However, given that exit polls showed about 20% of evangelicals voted for Obama (see diary by brooklynbadboy: http://www.dailykos.com/... ), being evangelical doesn't necessarily mean that they're Republican. After all, look at Jimmy Carter!

    We're not perfect, but they're nuts! -- Barney Frank

    by Tamar on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 12:53:55 PM PST

  •  It's not just immigration either (12+ / 0-)

    Obviously being hostle to immigrants and refusing to grant them their rights is a big deal.  It's the economic policy as well.  Why would most Latinos all of a sudden join the the disproportionate number of white males who vote against their own economic interests?

    Women, Blacks, Hispanics, and Asians all vote for reasonable policies for the middle and working classes.

    The real question is what is with the white male fixation with the GOP?

  •  Uhm pst repubs, mexico city legalized Gay marriage (18+ / 0-)

    Not all latinos get their marching orders from a bishop

    •  Not only did the Distrito Federal (Mexico City), (19+ / 0-)

      with 20 million residents legalize same-sex marriage, but the Mexican Supreme Court ruled that those marriages must be recognized by all the other states (unlike in the USA). Those marriages are also recognized by the Mexican federal government (again unlike in the USA) with all the benefits.

      So, in effect, same-sex marriage is now nation-wide in Mexico with the only limitation being that you must get married in Mexico City.

      Mexico is now way ahead of the USA when it comes to marriage equality.

      •  :-) so to Costa Rica, Argentina while Brazil = CU (7+ / 0-)

        civil unions

        with Ecuador and Uruguay also Civil Unions

        and columbia at least recognizes inheritance rights of same sex couples

      •  Yes and Latino Vote = (mainly) Mexican Vote (2+ / 0-)

        Yes, other groups - like Cubans, Puerto Ricans, Salvordans are important but it is important to remember that the Latino Vote in the US is mainly a Mexican American vote (65% or so of the Hispanic electorate see here).

        I used to help run a media group that targeted the "US Latino Market' and quickly realized that we were targeting the Mexican American market.

        Mexico is a distinct place with a very liberal tolerant political tradition.   Even many of the conservatives in Mexico - the PAN - would be considered socialists here in many ways by the GOP.

        It is important for us at Daily Kos to bet smart and more respectful of our fellow citizens and to recognize that the Latino vote is comprised of very different communities and, at the very least, to understand the importance of the Mexican American vote.

        This is also a reason why we should not be too scared of Marco Rubio -- conservative Cubans are reviled by many Mexicans. The nickname for them is "gusanos" or worms. I would love to see a debate of one of our Mexican American pols vs. Rubio (it would be very interesting).

        •  Something that puzzles me (0+ / 0-)

          about that source: Hispanic Origin Profiles, 2010

          Where are the Hispanic Americans whose origin is HERE, or, if you go back to the 17th century or so, Spain?  

          Here in New Mexico, the proportion of Hispanic people of  relatively recent Mexican origin IS growing, but I would be surprised to learn that it has surpassed the number of Hispanic people who are FROM here, going back centuries.  

          Reading closely I see that their "top 10" countries of origin fail to encompass 8% of the Hispanic population, so I guess the folks I'm talking about fall into that 8%.  But I am frankly rather surprised that they are outnumberd by Ecuadorans and Hondurans.

          "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

          by lgmcp on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 11:32:32 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Interesting question (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            lgmcp

            I assume they call them "mexican american" but you are 100% right - that is a completely different population of people.

            New Mexico is an interesting place as people whose Americanism pre-dates most of us gringos are a dominant part of the "US Hispanic" population.

  •  Hispanics/Latinos have seen racism... (26+ / 0-)

    ...and even been the target of this sometime in their life.  When they look around they see that all racists are Republican (not that all Republicans are racist).  So then they start to question things in the Republican party.  And they find that the racists are really good friends with the "social conservatives" and they start questioning their values too.

    And when you or your parents have been treated as second class citizens (they washed your mouth with soap in school for speaking Spanish,  a common anecdote), you start valuing personal freedom even more.  So supporting a woman's right to chose is a natural, even if you may not like the idea of abortion.

    Pensando en voz alta solamente.

    Daily Kos an oasis of truth. Truth that leads to action.

    by Shockwave on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 12:59:58 PM PST

    •  Absolutely true (11+ / 0-)

      Not just latinos. I was a Republican who finally opened my eyes to exactly what you described. Good riddens.

    •  Also, in Mexico, separation of church and state (8+ / 0-)

      is very important to people. It goes so far as to be that when you are married, you are married at the "civil" which I think is a court, first, then you are married at a church. The church marriage is optional, the one that counts is the "civil" marriage.

      •  I hadn't realized that. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Doug in SF

        And the reason is because of a stereotype that, unfortunately, I fell for.

        I assumed that since Mexico is a poorer country than ours, of course they would be more religious. Many people do not find religion or explore spirituality unless they're suffering some crisis. Especially with their combination of income inequality and the drug war, I've wondered if they'd be more willing than we'd expect to embrace fusion of church and state... something, anything to bring them a feeling of security. Kind of like how a bunch of women and independents voted for Republicans in 2010 because anybody new had to be an improvement, right?

        So I thought (like probably many other liberals do) that poverty = religious. At the very least, too worried about survival and relieving the pain of life to have time or energy for frills like social justice, or separation of church and state. Besides, the days of unions were over, which would have given the poor that necessary bit of mojo. Now they were too busy just trying to survive, like all of us...

        How nice to be pleasantly surprised! And I must say, I'm even a little jealous. Not only is Mexico ahead of us on several important progressive measures, but it turns out they have a tradition of "we the people" that may rival our own. But of course, since they're just a Third World country full of undereducated brown people, their experiment in democracy must be inferior to ours. Right?

        Real Democrats don't abandon the middle class. --John Kerry

        by Lucy Montrose on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 10:52:43 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I am not an expert on this, but, I believe it has (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          cacamp

          to do with reforms that were put into place after the Mexican Revolution.

          The 1917 Constitution put strong constraints on the religious. It was against the law for ministers to run for office or to own land. That was amended in 1992, but there is a strong anti-clerical streak in Mexico, as well as many devout Catholics.

    •  And they grasp the concept of REAL freedom, (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Doug in SF

      not the faux kind, the all-about Teh Guns/freedom to shirk your duty to your fellow man/freedom to foist your religion on less powerful people /travesty to the name kind of "freedom".

      Is this the reason liberation theology was, by and large, a Latino thing?

      Real Democrats don't abandon the middle class. --John Kerry

      by Lucy Montrose on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 09:36:47 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  catholic hispanics voted for obama 75 - 21 (9+ / 0-)

    abortion is a big deal to many.  it's just that more people are moving on.

    the rape babies are gods will is nonsense.  it's a losing issue.  

    but that one issue gets them a lot of support.

    -You want to change the system, run for office.

    by Deep Texan on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 01:02:31 PM PST

    •  Immigration Is Just As Personal, And Affects... (7+ / 0-)

      a much broader range of Latinos than the Church's views on abortion in the US Latino community. Almost all of us have family or friends who have been hauled off and deported -- treated worse than animals in unexpectedly and immediately being separated from her family. Not so many of us face such wrenching issues around abortion.

      We've all seen the faces of honest, hard-working, responsible members of our community whisked-off in a midst of whispers from one day to the other, as was done in the East Germany of a few decades past. This causes much more anxiety with a broader brush in the Latino community than family and friends losing a job, whether gays can get married, or which direction the economy is going.

      "Force is as pitiless to the man who possesses it, or thinks he does, as it is to its victims; the second it crushes, the first it intoxicates.” Simone Weil

      by chuco35 on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 08:25:48 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  That's a very evocative post. (0+ / 0-)

        There are a lot of undocumented Irish in America too. They don't get deported as much. White skin helps slip under the radar no doubt. But we in Ireland hear a lot about their heartache at never being able to visit loved ones in Ireland or attend funerals and weddings of family members. I wonder do Irish Americans have the same concern for them that you and your community express for immigrants from Latin America. In my perusal of the internet I get the impression  that large numbers of Irish Americans vote GOP.

        •  I think this depends a lot on if you know someone (0+ / 0-)

          who is here illegally. If you have made friends with someone, whatever their nationality, and they tell you their story, you start to see things through their eyes.

          I would guess that most Irish Americans are like me and they don't know anybody who is actually from Ireland.

  •  Republican's idea (11+ / 0-)

    Of finding common ground with Latinos is to get them to agree with them on hating blacks and Muslims.

    This isn't hyperbole- I've been in right wing forums where this is what they are talking about.

  •  No real issue with your thesis (6+ / 0-)

    but just want to nitpick here:

    4. Education? I think there's some potential here for the GOP. Schools in poor minority areas have historically underachieved. There is a perception that Democrats have done nothing about this. Republicans have offered "fresh, new ideas," which while fresh and new aren't necessarily any better and are probably worse. But as long as the complete data set isn't in, it's an issue that might be exploited.
    Republican ideas on education are neither fresh and new (that's...a few mostly-liberal people outside the mainstream) nor traditional and time-tested (that's mainstream Democrats supporting the last century's worth of educational tradition, and a very, very few people of no common political affiliation supporting older traditions.)

    Republican education policies, like most Republican policies, have a long, long history of suck.

    Note: I'm specifically talking about Republican education policies, not conservative education policies. Republican policies include charters/privatization/deregulation/vouchers, union-busting, incentive pay, taking money from 'failing' schools, school prayer, historical revisionism, creationism, and cutting arts programs.

    I'm an educational conservative (you might even call me a reactionary): I support heavier use of direct instruction and various other unfashionable practices. Educational conservatism may actually appeal to parents of color. But educational conservatism is not a Republican policy.

    "Let’s just move on, treat everybody with firmness, fairness, dignity, compassion and respect. Let’s be Marines." - Sgt. Maj Michael Barrett on DADT repeal

    by kyril on Thu Nov 08, 2012 at 03:10:54 PM PST

    •  I used to think (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tcorse, Calamity Jean, kyril

      that Republicans had a better grasp of what was needed for a better public education system.  However, noticing things similar what you cited above, I no longer think that's true.  I was hating on the whole 'self-esteem' movement and the idea that teachers were no longer authority figures deserving of respect, but rather punching bags (sometimes literally) for kids and their parents.

      But my mother has been a teacher for 40+ years and I've watched as her class numbers have gone up, the support for gifted and special-ed programs have gone down (she taught learning disabled kids but has been dealing with severely autistic kids in her class that she isn't set up for).  This is a Republican County.  And then there's the union busting and the MSM vilifying her for having a pension after 40+ years of service.

      Education is broken and we need to remove the politics from it entirely.  Nothing can destroy and entire generation faster than crappy education fundamentals.

    •  Sure... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kyril

      ....but Republicans will certainly dress it up that way. I'm not saying that their politics are actually that way.

      No one ever created a vibrant economy by building houses for each other. Houses are built because there is a vibrant economy.

      by Doug in SF on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 11:28:22 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  What do you or others think of possible GOP trap? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rosarugosa

    FULL BORDER PROTECTION + Amnesty--but everything except citizenship.

    I bet you that "everything except citizenship" comes much after the enforcement part.  

    Would Ds fall for that?

    •  It would instantly create an inferior second (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mahakali overdrive

      class of Americans, with, by definition, rights inferior to those of citizens -- such as voting, certain jobs, etc.

      "Force is as pitiless to the man who possesses it, or thinks he does, as it is to its victims; the second it crushes, the first it intoxicates.” Simone Weil

      by chuco35 on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 08:34:43 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Republicans... (0+ / 0-)

      ....will never propose amnesty. They may propose something similar to the Bush plan, but even that's a stretch (which includes a guest worker program, even for those already here). Throw in a point program for citizenship that includes points for having worked here under the program, and subject all the guest worker jobs to the minimum wage, and we might have a real policy!

      No one ever created a vibrant economy by building houses for each other. Houses are built because there is a vibrant economy.

      by Doug in SF on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 11:30:35 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  No amount of sweet talk can smooth over the.... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Calamity Jean, skrekk

    ....republican dilemma with Hispanics. Keep obstructing immigration reform and keep losing national elections or allow a pathway to citizenship and legalize more Hispanic voters.

    •  It is indeed a trap. (0+ / 0-)

      Giving in on amnesty will not much help GOPers with Latinos in the national arena. The 70-30% gap is frozen regardless.

      That's their worst fear, and another reason why the party won't give in on amnesty.

      "Force is as pitiless to the man who possesses it, or thinks he does, as it is to its victims; the second it crushes, the first it intoxicates.” Simone Weil

      by chuco35 on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 08:37:24 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  GOP have an ace up their sleeve (0+ / 0-)

        Enforcement, then reform (but not all the way to citizenship).

        Notice that enforcement comes first? And who will be hanged with the "enforcement". Obama.  The GOP will turnaround and put it on him.   And I bet you the criteria for 'enforcement" will never reach.

        The absolute non-negotiable for Democrats should be:

        1. DREAM Act must be passed immediately.
        2. Reform must be concurrent with enforcement.

  •  Romney lost even Cuban-American's! STUNNING! (11+ / 0-)

    Republican Party begins election review to find out what went wrong

    Underscoring the thoroughness of the GOP defeat, a Florida exit poll showed that Cuban Americans went for Obama by 49 percent to 47 percent — a watershed moment for a group that has been solidly Republican for a generation.

    -1.63/ -1.49 "Speaking truth to power" (with snark of course)!

    by dopper0189 on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 04:15:52 AM PST

    •  Is it age? (5+ / 0-)

      We know that overall Obama did better with the youth vote. The younger Cuban Americans are not as concerned about Cuba. No published empirical source here, just my dad's experience in trying to drum up participants to a religious trip to Cuba.

    •  Can someone please help (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Chi, skrekk, dconrad, dopper0189

      ...me understand the Cuban issue that is so intense that people become single-issue voters?

      I have a Cuban-American friend whose family did well under Batista.  However, he is gay, young (early 30s) and was born here.  This past election cycle, I suffered through numerous anti-Obama posts and references to his socialism.

      Now you'd think that someone from Cuba would really understand what socialism is and understand that neither Obama nor the ACA are socialism.

      And I just can't wrap my mind around embracing The Anti-Gay party when you are gay.  The only thing more mindblowing to me is if he was a woman too.

      So can someone please explain his point of view?  I'm dumbfounded.

      •  Could be (0+ / 0-)

        the problem is a warped, retrograde, ultraconservative Catholic upbringing.  

        There's also a lot of perspective warpage in exile/unwilling immigrant  families- the first generation goes into denial and pretends to itself that it's still living in their home country.  And raises their kids as if that were reality.  Most of the kids raised this way consider it wrong and correct for it by assimilations and pragmatism/practicality once they're out of the house.  But quite a few adapt poorly and become horribly conflicted and turn into angry, maladapted, reactionary weirdos vis a vis mainstream life with incoherent ideological rationalizations.

      •  I think he hates Castro and so do Republicans. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        dconrad

        But, I think you will have to ask him that.

        He is not really from Cuba, so, he doesn't really know what socialism is, he just knows from his parents nostalgia that things were better under Batista, and they probably were for his family.

        You know, if your parent's home had been taken away and used as a government office you would also not like Castro.

        That is my two cents, and I agree that it is odd when someone who is gay votes Republican, but I think they have their reasons. (which I disagree with)

      •  Part of the problem is where you get your (0+ / 0-)

        information from. Cuban American oriented media has been so heavily pro-Republican, they really haven't heard much else.

        But with more non-Cubans in South FL that island of media is harder to maintain. Also high profile Cuban American backing Obama (Christina, Christine Aguilera, Gloria Estaban) and better Cuban American Democratic politician (new rep Joe Garcia, Sen. Mendez, the former mayor of Miami), this single issue vote is breaking.

        -1.63/ -1.49 "Speaking truth to power" (with snark of course)!

        by dopper0189 on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 04:04:48 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  I'd say "The orange Molcajete"....which sounds (0+ / 0-)

    like a cocktail or something found next to the Sunny-D, now that I think about it.

  •  GOP hatred and bigotry (6+ / 0-)

    Since the 1960s the GOP has relied on racial division.  Dog whistle appeals to bigotry, hatred, and fear.  Creating an external enemy will build in-group cohesion.  But what happens when the enemy is part of America?  

    Latinos are no more homogeneous than any other group.  Some are more conservative and some are more liberal.  But so long as the GOP takes such joy in insulting them, and gleefully pass harassing laws against them, the GOP will see a homogeneous response from Latino voters

    The GOP has worked built white cohesion by demonizing the other, but is bewildered when those others develop cohesion against them.  An external enemy builds in-group cohesion.  It works both ways.

    A new birth of freedom..

    by docterry on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 04:59:32 AM PST

  •  My wife is Latina (6+ / 0-)

    take my word -- do NOT tell her what to do / believe.

    "Hell hath no fury like a (Latina) woman ....."

    Who do you believe, Waffle Willard or Lyin' Ryan???

    by Da Rock on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 05:08:29 AM PST

  •  In the end, it's all about the income (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tcorse, chuco35, Calamity Jean, Chi

    Like the population at large, most Latino's work for a wage, are employed by the government, or do thankless jobs like customer service.

    A small portion are small business owners subjected to the harsh realities of American "Big Box" capitalism.

    Social issue are all the GOP has to sell, since their economic policies destroy the working class, wages benefits, and unions.

    Just study the governments through out Latin America, and most retain a socialist bent.

    If not us ... who? If not here ... where? If not now ... when?

    by RUNDOWN on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 06:14:08 AM PST

  •  the GOP's so-called "outreach" message to (5+ / 0-)

    Hispanic-Americans is, basically, the same as to everyone else: You are all Republicans, you just don't know it yet, and we'll try to force you to be one if we have to.

    Having said that, since the Republicans seem genetically incapable of changing their message or policies on...pretty much everything...there's almost a sure guarantee that either Marco Rubio or Ted Cruz will definitely be on the Republican ticket in 2016 (whether that's at the top of the ticket or as VP is a discussion for another day).

    The only way Republicans are genetically capable of making their party more diverse is pure tokenism, plain and simple. Their answer to making the party more diverse is the same as most advertisers' solution to making their products more acceptable to Hispanics...put an Hispanic person in the commercial, and that, in their bizzarro-world, will solve everything. Heck...to their way of thinking, they probably feel they didn't line up enough token women, African-Americans, Hispanics and other minorities in the front row of their convention. That's probably the only "lesson" that they wish to take away from this year's election.

    •  Hey, some of their best friends are Latinos! (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wdrath

      It's one of they oldest dodges in the world.

      Conservatives believe evil comes from violating rules. Liberals believe evil comes from violating each other.

      by tcorse on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 08:24:03 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  This is the easiest path for Repubs (0+ / 0-)

      ...to not change the economic, social message, but wrap them in tokenism and avoid overt hostility when discussing immigration.  

      I agree also they will have Rubio on the ticket in 2016, though I would bet he will be at the top of the ticket.  

      I have made it my personal mission to speak to members of my community and alerting them to this and the potential shallow overtures Republicans may try to use on Latinos.

      We need to remind people, not just Latinos, that elections need to be about what the candidate is offering, not a contest of who-I-identify-with-the-most.  

      "Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted."-Martin Luther King Jr

      by Riyaz Guerra on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 03:49:06 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  So as we see above, (6+ / 0-)

    Hispanics are if anything more "socially liberal" than whites.  I'm guessing the Hispanic community is likewise not interested in paying an extra $2,000 a year to give Bank of America a tax break.  

    I expect any GOP "outreach" to be embarrassingly patronizing and then devolve into a nefarious attempt to divide the Democratic coalition, which essentially amounts to an attempt to divide the real America.  There's not goodwill with Republicans.  The official right wing talking point for this election is that makers v. takers malarkey.  

  •  According to the GOP, legal immigrants are the (3+ / 0-)

    people who are most upset at illegals. That is because, according to them, legal immigrants "stood in line" and "followed the rules".

    However, ask any legal immigrant from a Spanish speaking country about the "rules" and they will tell that the wait to get into the US is about 8 years. They will also tell you that the people who immigrate to the US are in a desperate situation. I have not heard one legal immigrant from a South American or Central American country or Mexico complain about illegals "not standing in line".  I am sure there are a few people who will say that sort of thing, but very few.

    •  Yep, Republicans are really worried about "rules" (0+ / 0-)

      Especially the ones they just make up. Authoritarians are like that -- not surprising they would dream up this supposed resentment you mention. It's how they think, and they assume others do as well.

      Conservatives believe evil comes from violating rules. Liberals believe evil comes from violating each other.

      by tcorse on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 08:20:37 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  None! nt (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      rosarugosa

      "Force is as pitiless to the man who possesses it, or thinks he does, as it is to its victims; the second it crushes, the first it intoxicates.” Simone Weil

      by chuco35 on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 08:40:56 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I want to scream when I hear that (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Calamity Jean, lgmcp, imokyrok, rosarugosa

      "Just get in line and do it legally". These people have no frakking clue just how slow that line is, and how damn expensive it is to "do it legally".  A whole bunch of immigrants would love to do it legally if the process wasn't such a clusterfuck.

      Also, another whole bunch just want to work for some period of time, but not take up permanent citizenship. And they would be A-OK with work permits, and limits on receiving some government services like welfare.

      "...you can’t find any oxygen from outside the aircraft to get in the aircraft, because the windows don’t open. I don’t know why they don’t do that. It’s a real problem." Mitt Romney

      by Catte Nappe on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 08:46:03 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Part of the clusterfuck... (0+ / 0-)

        ....which seems to be surviving a 200 mile hike in 100 degree heat.

        No one ever created a vibrant economy by building houses for each other. Houses are built because there is a vibrant economy.

        by Doug in SF on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 11:34:58 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Not to mention the fact (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Catte Nappe, rosarugosa

        that there was no 'line' when most of their ancestors emigrated to the US. Basically if their ancestor wasn't obviously diseased they got in when they turned up at the port.

        •  Oh, yeah (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          rosarugosa

          That line of attack is a blast of ignorance. "We are a nation of immigrants? Well my ancestors came here legally, why can't these people?"  My ancestors came here legally, too. Some of them just showed up and got off the boat, and decided to stay. That was that. A few came along later, and like you say had to "appear" to be in reasonable health, and that was that. The most recent was my Candadian mother, who had to fill out some forms and check in with some US gov. official along with my US citizen Dad. And that was that, too.

          "...you can’t find any oxygen from outside the aircraft to get in the aircraft, because the windows don’t open. I don’t know why they don’t do that. It’s a real problem." Mitt Romney

          by Catte Nappe on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 01:07:20 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Hispanic Women May Be More Liberal Than Men (8+ / 0-)

    At least, that's been my personal experience. I married a Latino, and I have been struck by how much more progressive and vocal the women in the family are than the men.  The aunts and female cousins not only support the availability of an abortion, but support same-sex marriage.  Most are devout Roman Catholic. Some are Evangelical Christians; there are even a few Jehovah's Witnesses. An 80 year-old Tia who has a picture of the Pope over the inside of her front door confided in me, "in some things he is just wrong." Many of these women have been the bread-winners and have helped to the family survive and get ahead in the US. They have learned to think for themselves.

    •  I suspect that is true in most societies. (0+ / 0-)

      Women have to deal with the realities of life and that can lead them to be less judgmental. For example in Ireland where abortion is still illegal I don't know any women even very elderly women who would condemn a woman for having an abortion even if they don't approve of abortion themselves. With the middle aged and elderly men it's another matter entirely. A recent protest outside a Belfast clinic which had started providing the abortion drug as per British law  was 100% male if the photos in the papers were accurate.

  •  What I have noticed is that Hispanic males are (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Catte Nappe, mahakali overdrive

    generally very secure about what it is to be "a man". So, they are not really worried about "gays" in the way that I have seen from some American men. Mexican guys will hug each other, for example, and aren't afraid of being called gay. And, gay people seem to be pretty well accepted. But, I am talking about a certain region of another country and I am not sure if you can generalize from that back to this country, because people are influenced by where they grow up and by the norms of the state or neighborhood where they live.

    •  To that... (0+ / 0-)

      Maybe it is not a coincedence that the first male athlete in a combat sport to come out openly was a hispanic boxer.

      •  I didn't know that. (0+ / 0-)

        The truth is everyone has there own reasons for voting the way they do.

        The GOP made a lot of anti-family statements, and I mean "anti-family" in the true sense. An example would be back when Jan Brewer passed that papers please law. This man, Arpaio, who likes to keep people and interrogate them because he thinks they look "illegal" or at least "suspicious", which is really the same thing, I would guess more Hispanics consider those things to be truly anti-family.

        We saw a hint of this when Sharon Angle said that Hispanics "looked almost Asian" so they were ok, and she also ran ads making Mexicans look like criminals, appealing to racist voters, I guess. That is what won Harry Reid his seat.

        So, the Republicans have no reason to be surprised that Latinos, and let's face it, anyone with any sense, voted against them and for the other side. They should have seen it coming when Harry Reid won his seat. The fact that they assumed that Hispanics wouldn't even vote, that is a whole 'nother story.

  •  Standing Ovation (6+ / 0-)

    The diarist has hit the proverbial nail squarely on the head.  To appeal to the coming voter demographics, the GOP would have to cease being the GOP.  

    •  More To The Point. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lgmcp, BroadwayBaby1

      The GOP would have to give up racism -- cold turkey!

      We're not waiting for that to happen.

      "Force is as pitiless to the man who possesses it, or thinks he does, as it is to its victims; the second it crushes, the first it intoxicates.” Simone Weil

      by chuco35 on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 08:43:27 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  The truth is Hispanics in the US are a pretty (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tcorse, Calamity Jean, lgmcp, Riyaz Guerra

    diverse group, perhaps more Democratic leaning on many issues for various reasons, but there is no one answer for the GOP. One thing is true though, if you have talking heads saying basically that "rape is ok" women won't vote for you and if you have others saying, "build a fence" and "electrify them", they won't want to vote for you. These things are obvious unless you are completely stupid.

  •  Authoritarianism is the real issue (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Catte Nappe, Calamity Jean, skrekk

    What do Latinos, young people, single women, African-Americans, Asians-Americans, LGBT Americans -- what do they have in common? Why would they all be voting for Democrats in such high numbers?

    They are all people who understand that the status quo is stacked against them.

    Bill O'Reilly managed to get it right when he put this election in terms of the decline of "the white establishment." Exactly - the Republican Party is an authoritarian party, and thus is the party of maintaining the traditional social order. As such, it is difficult for them to win over voters who fall outside of traditional power structures. People know who's got their back and who doesn't.

    Conservatives believe evil comes from violating rules. Liberals believe evil comes from violating each other.

    by tcorse on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 08:17:34 AM PST

  •  I can only offer one observation here (6+ / 0-)

    having grown up around Hispanic families. They all have gay family members (like the rest of us) and they all adored and protected them from homophobes. I can't seem them falling in line with demonizing their loved ones.

    While many minority groups are the target for discrimination, few face this hostility without the support and acceptance of their family as do many glbt youth.

    by azrefugee on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 08:17:36 AM PST

  •  Do Republicans have "social issues?" (0+ / 0-)

    The purpose of the Republican party is to a) continually lower taxes on rich Americans and b) Hobble the government to force privatization of everything.
    They are in a coalition with christian extremists so they have a base of votes. Truly, I believe the leaders of the Republican party have no particular morality.  If they need to change the mix of their voters by adjusting their platform, they will do it. See the quick turnaround on immigration - it didn't even take one day.

    "You can die for Freedom, you just can't exercise it"

    by shmuelman on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 08:52:31 AM PST

  •  Natural Fit? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Calamity Jean, skrekk

    No one is a natural fit for the GOP on any issue.  Unless of course you are old, white, and male.

  •  a pill that turns them into grumpy old white men? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Calamity Jean

    what a sight. all the taquerias in town suddenly staffed by angry old white dudes. creepy!

    sorry GOP. you can let yourselves be pushed around by AM hate radio, but that is your problem. quit trying to spread the poison even further.

  •  As I wrote yesterday, (5+ / 0-)

    "Republicans who are soberly talking about the urgency of getting with some brown people today are seemingly operating out of a stereotype of the Latino voter as Juan Valdez: a simple, hardworking and basically conservative Catholic, who is only backing Democrats because of the immigration issue.

    "They don't seem to understand that Latino voters are Americans. In fact, millions of them were born and grew up here. They went to American schools, grew up in American society and, remarkably enough, they are not bewildered and amazed by smartphones and indoor plumbing. They have opinions on issues other than immigration. They're no more stupid or gullible than any other segment of the population.

    "So that's the first problem: your cutting-edge assessment that maybe you should be, I dunno, a little less racist, maybe, is rooted in assumptions that are...racist."

    Diary is here.

    Have a flagon and discuss the news of the day at the sign of the Green Dragon, or hear me roar on Twitter @MarkGreenFuture

    by Dracowyrm on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 09:36:34 AM PST

  •  Latinos are, on average, YOUNGER (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skrekk, killjoy, karmsy

    and younger people are more supportive of gay rights.  

    "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

    by lgmcp on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 11:20:31 AM PST

  •  GOP assumes individualism/WASPism are universal (0+ / 0-)

    Just because black people go to church, and Latinos are into the family, doesn't mean that either buy into a you're-on-your'e own type public policy.

    Minority communities tend to value looking out for each other.

    Or take Asian communities from Buddhist-Confuciast backgrounds. They're certainly not into a war-mongering foreign policy.

    Minorities are NOT a natural fit for the GOP as you claim.  They're making a mistake (let them).  They're approaching this from a very ethno-centric manner assuming that everyone is like WASPs and hold the same values.

    •  I also dispute the family values meme (0+ / 0-)

      of the right. I hover on  a lot of US sites covering the political spectrum and I see a hell of a lot of 'conditional' love from conservatives for their offspring. I've lost count of the number of times I've seen one recommend cutting of the financial support of a son or daughter who doesn't toe their political or religious line. I've never come across that on the liberal side of the fence.

      Also among atheist young people in conservative families they are often more terrified of coming out about their atheism than even being gay! Though either is often grounds for repudiation by so called family values voters.

  •  I live a couple of miles from a major (0+ / 0-)

    Latino district in my city. And the forced-birth idiots have been slathering billboards around the neighborhood, ones in English, with type too small to read from the car while driving, showing pictures of an adorable BLUE EYED infant, as part of the Defense of Life.

    In an enemy campaign, it is always reassuring to see this much fail.

    It's here they got the range/ and the machinery for change/ and it's here they got the spiritual thirst. --Leonard Cohen

    by karmsy on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 12:39:21 PM PST

  •  The Prop 8 vote four years ago (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rosarugosa

    had Latino voters split in the exact same percentages as the white vote in California, which is a couple of points more liberal than the national average.

    So I've regarded this Republican thing of Latinos being inherently conservative as a delusion.  Maybe the older generations living who grew up in traditionalist agricultural villages and the 1960s/70s Cuban immigrees fit the bill, but hardly the generations that have now watched JLo and Eva Longoria and Sofia Vargara smash through into the upper middle class and not fall down again.

    For one thing, Latino voters are young and largely assimilated to the generational outlooks among their white age peers.  And immigration is social fact among Latinos even though most who vote are born on U.S. soil.  Immigration is justified by those who do it by the new place they are being a better place, and one where effort exerted to live a better, happier, more just and fair life has positive results.  Immigration is not an issue so much as a social motivation to be activist, to try for better, and to vote for aspirational and better things.  And to vote against the noxious and obstructive idiots who want to prevent this better and more just/fair life.

    Secondly, white American conservatism is either crude narcissism or tribalism outright, or a weird religionish thing rationalized by complicated, rather airy-fairy, theoretical/ideological mental constructs largely imported from Europe a century or two ago (and which no longer have real currency there).  Popular Latino culture is rooted in Native American culture, with its strong practical/pragmatic vein and insistence on the priority of human life, individual spiritual autonomy, and social experience as it actually is and the high value these things over mere notions/dreams of them.  Its core duality isn't the (quite abstract/theoretical) liberal vs conservative per se.  Maybe traditional versus practical-in-the-present-situation is the best description and the terminology which yields the clearest communication.  But that does map onto conservative and liberal, respectively, fairly well in practice these days.

     

  •  Looks Like Latinos/Latinas (0+ / 0-)

    are more naturally Dems to me.  But make no mistake about it they are like everyone else too; they want some hard delivery to them like the Dream Act of the President.  Just like his support for Gay marriage, and doing away with Don't Ask, Don't Tell for Gay people.  And unwavering support for a woman's right to chose.  These groups delivered for the President because he delivered for them.  That's the way politics works.  The GOP tried to deliver for rich guys but failed.  They could not buy the White House, though they will be back with more $, I bet.  At this point the GOP looks heartless and that is why many people will not support them.  

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