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Papa John's pizza sign
Papa John's CEO John Schnatter has gotten a lot of press for his estimate that meeting Obamacare's requirements and insuring more than one in three of his employees would add 10 to 14 cents to the cost of each pizza, something he would of course pass directly to customers. That means that if you ate Papa John's three times a week every single week, you'd be paying up to an additional $21.84 a year (for the pizza; the costs to your health are another question altogether). But Forbes' Caleb Melby does the math and finds that Schnatter's claims may not be so accurate to begin with.

Given Papa John's revenue and operating expenses, Schnatter's estimate that complying with the new law will cost $5 to $8 million per year would mean a .4 to .7 percent expense increase.

For the sake of argument, let’s say that Papa John’s sells exactly half medium/half large specialty pizzas. Averaging the ranges for both sizes, then averaging that product yields a .86% price increase—well outside the range of what Schnatter says Obamacare will cost him.

So how much would prices go up, under these 50/50 conditions, if they were to fairly reflect the increased cost of doing business onset by Obamacare? Roughly 3.4 to 4.6 cents a pie.

Papa John's customers are already paying for Schnatter's $2.7 million compensation package, but he hasn't been so interested in breaking out the per-pizza cost on that. If he's right that $5 to $8 million for insuring more workers would mean 10 to 14 cents a pizza, I guess he personally accounts for about 5 cents per pizza; if Melby's estimate is right, Schnatter's costing customers a little less than 2 cents per pizza. But the fact that one guy's compensation package is more than half the low-end estimate for complying with the law and insuring more workers is bad enough. That that's the guy who gets to publicly exaggerate the cost of health care for his offensively underpaid workers and try to scare customers into thinking that insuring more people will mean they, personally, will be able to afford less shitty pizza, is an indictment of our economy and public economic discourse. As if there weren't enough indictments outstanding on those fronts.

(Via We Party Patriots)

Originally posted to Daily Kos Labor on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 08:10 AM PST.

Also republished by In Support of Labor and Unions and Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  PJ gives jalapenos with every pizza (8+ / 0-)

    most of which end up in the garbage.

    Wonder what that costs?

    Am I right, or am I right? - The Singing Detective

    by Clem Yeobright on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 08:14:13 AM PST

  •  Wonder what the cost of making a pizza is for (12+ / 0-)

    Papa?

    I watched a vid over at vice.com about a NYC chef who was out on the town for a night. Chef went to a small bar where you get a free small sized pizza with EVERY drink order. Drives mad traffic to the bar.

    Chef went back to the kitchen and had a conversation with the cook.Long and short of it, it cost that small bar less than 25 cents to make a pizza, thats the raw ingredients. On the massive scale of Papa's you might expect that cost to be even lower.

    •  We need to kill the myth... (17+ / 0-)

      ...that businesses "pass along taxes and regulatory costs" to consumers.

      If PJ had the ability to charge $0.14 more, they would already be doing it...and they would be pocketing the difference.

      Only at higher levels will we actually see price hikes, and they will be accompanied by decreases in volume.

      Think of it the other way around. Suppose Romney had won and killed the mortgage interest deduction for the middle class.  Would you get to go to your boss and say:

      "I'm sorry, but those Republicans just raised my taxes. I'm passing along the cost to you and demand a $1,000/yr raise".
      Seriously.

      Lastly, has anyone calculated how much I'm going to save in local taxes because my local emergency room is not filled with Papa John's employees?

      •  It's not a myth. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        drmah, tinfoilhat, rhauenstein

        Taxes and regulatory expenses are a special case of costs because they apply to everyone in the business.  There is no disincentive to pass them along.  

        Pretty much the same thing happens when ingredients go up in price.  They go for everybody, so everybody passes along the increase.

        The most likely reason that Papa Johns isn't passing the increase along yet is because it hasn't been incurred -- and hasn't hit their competitors yet, either.

        LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

        by dinotrac on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 04:54:05 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  If costs go up... (0+ / 0-)

          ...I have to make a decision whether or not to raise my prices.

          If I know that my competitors will raise prices, then that's collusion.

          PJ knows that if they raise prices too much people will simply not eat out. They have already fixed their price at what they think is the maximum they can get away with.

          •  No. Collusion requires agreement. (0+ / 0-)

            Deciding it's safe to raise your prices because you figure that others will also raise theirs is not (in most cases) collusion.

            Your assertion that that PJ has already fixed their price at the maximum they can "get away" with does reflect an Econ 101 understanding of basic market forces, but falls a bit short as an analysis:

            1. While it's true that people will not go to restaurants if the price of restaurant food goes too high, that is not the only price determinant.  Papa John's must also compete with other pizza joints (specifically) and other restaurants targeting the same customer space. That competition may (and likely does) cause prices to be set at levels lower than the price that will cause potential customers to eat at home instead.

            2.  The actual pricing decision is based on profit maximization, not some single price point to which all businesses must adhere.  For example, Apple prices its products significantly higher than competitors' products.  Consequently, iPhones do not make up a majority of the smart phone market.  iPhones are not even the most popular brand of smart phone.  That suits Apple fine: they earn the biggest margin in the industry.  They make more money on fewer phones than their competitors.

            LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

            by dinotrac on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 10:39:08 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  Exactly. Federal laws have no effect on businesses (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        rhauenstein

        because there's a level playing field. All of them have the same expense. Unlike choosing to pay millions in compensation to incompetent aholes foisting overpriced garbage on the public. Plus, if this particular ahole wanted to save on employee health care, and if he had a brain instead of a KochBoy speaking tube, he'd have been leading to fight for universal health care. Problem solved.

        Remember what happened when we turned the country over to that dumbass rich kid? So now we're thinking about doing it again? Really?

        by DaveW on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 04:55:29 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  if it's only 14 cents to cover the costs of the... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ManhattanMan

        ...healthcare act, how does that franchisee of Denny's justify a 5% surcharge??

        I'm a blue drop in a red bucket.

        by blue drop on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 06:15:50 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  I would bet that ingredients are not the biggest (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      drmah

      cost.  Retail space costs money, and so do people.

      That's the main reason restaurant food is so much more expensive than what you can fix at home.

      LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

      by dinotrac on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 04:51:45 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Pizza has one of the highest mark-ups (0+ / 0-)

      Dirt cheap. My mom was in the food sales industry for years. Breakfast, pizza and Tex-Mex are the three biggest returns on investment in her opinion and considering she was selling them the stuff wholesale I value her info.

      Putting on the spectacles of science in expectation of finding an answer to everything looked at signifies inner blindness. -- J(ames) Frank Dobie

      by cactusflinthead on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 05:17:06 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  14 cents. LOL (22+ / 0-)

    Seriously, if you can't tack on 14 cents per pizza, which is probably the marginal difference in sales tax amongst various states, then what the fuck are you doing ordering a pizza in the first place???

    A dime and four pennies?  Really?  LOFL.

    IT'S FOURTEEN FUCKING CENTS.  People don't even bend over to pick up 14 cents if its laying on the ground.  Well, I do, but I have no shame.

    CNN has called it: Luke Skywalker vs. the Death Star is a tie!

    by GOPGO2H3LL on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 08:21:01 AM PST

  •  Someone modestly tax his advertising budget (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DRo, trumpeter, blue aardvark

    Please!

    It seems curiosity has killed the cat that had my tongue.

    by Murphoney on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 08:30:07 AM PST

  •  We'd be better off (13+ / 0-)

    without these chains. The mom and pop places that existed before were doing a good enough job keeping people fed.
      What's going on is the monopoly of commercially zoned land held by shopping center developers. The mom and pops are priced out on rent. Results: Higher prices for restaurant food, and culturally depressing standardization coast to coast (and now, around the world.)

    •  Restaurant chains (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DRo

      Hmmmm... ya know, the federal government can regulate interstate commerce...

      --- Keep Christian mythology out of science class! @cybersaur1

      by cybersaur on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 04:31:41 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  And the mom and pops were better, healthier food. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Neon Mama
    •  Around here I can find actual pizza for (0+ / 0-)

      significantly less than the sadass imitations offered by PJ or any of the other chains. They don't run on quality or price, they run on advertising. How much does that tack onto the price of a PJ "pizza"?

      And those mom and pop joints actually provide a living to somebody besides overstuffed oligarchs in some other state.

      Remember what happened when we turned the country over to that dumbass rich kid? So now we're thinking about doing it again? Really?

      by DaveW on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 05:00:19 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Hmm.... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kareylou

    Okay, get rid of workers, will John make the pizzas himself then?

  •  I like this line (6+ / 0-)
    That means that if you ate Papa John's three times a week every single week, you'd be paying up to an additional $21.84 a year (for the pizza; the costs to your health are another question altogether).
    I am pretty sure you'd be dead in a few years

    --Enlighten the people, generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like spirits at the dawn of day. - Thomas Jefferson--

    by idbecrazyif on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 08:36:02 AM PST

  •  I found a quaint, local pizza joint a few years (13+ / 0-)

    ago. Haven't ordered a chain pizza since. Actually, this local joint uses real ingredients and no meat fillers, etc. Worth the dollar more for a real pizza.

    They also give me a helium-filled balloon too! Just how fucking cool is that?!

    Hope has a hole in it when Republicans come, bringing shackles and sorrow; branding their greed on the backs of the poor. - Wendy Connors

    by Wendys Wink on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 08:40:11 AM PST

    •  OMG, tonight (4+ / 0-)

      I am going to have pizza (which is exciting when you're gluten free and can only eat pizza in a few places), and Risotteria uses real, fresh mozzarella and doesn't sugar up their tomato sauce and tonight I'm having the pizza with prosciutto on it, which is a revelation, I'm telling you.

    •  Or make your own (7+ / 0-)

      If you love pizza and you don't have an independently owned pizza place in your neighborhood, learn to make your own. You will take chain pizza places off your speed dial forever.

      It's easier than you think, but there is a learning curve. The crust is key. Invest in a pizza stone and buy good cheese. For the best American Pie, consult pizza guru Peter Reinhart.

      Remember, we can always opt out and create alternatives to corporate-controlled goods and services. Patronizing co-ops and locally-owned/employee-owned businesses, learning how to do things ourselves, and investing in a communtiy-based economy can be more effective than confronting these bad faith players. It also helps our community's bottomline a heck of lot more.

      What those guys do not understand is that we are citizens first, not consumers. Who really needs a Papa John's, an Applebees, or a Denny's?

      In that spirit, I hope you join me on Thanksgiving and Black Friday and celebrate "Buy Nothing Days" (isn't it sad that we have to include the holiday now) and then give your local economy a boost by observing Small Business Saturday. I bet there is an independent eatery somewhere near you.

      If money is speech, then speech is money and I should be able to pay my bills with witty social commentary, astute political analysis or good old blarney

      by heiderose1 on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 11:06:26 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  And if you're good, (0+ / 0-)

        learn to do gluten-free.  It will pull in people who can never go to a chain.

        I am not religious, and did NOT say I enjoyed sects.

        by trumpeter on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 04:34:50 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Home - made pizza rocks. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cactusflinthead

        We got out of the habit when our old DAK bread maker croaked, but...

        wow!

        We used to make crust with garlic and a dash of cayenne pepper, make our own sauce (with more cayenne for good measure) and then make either a vegetarian pizza with tomatoes, onions, spinach, and pinapples or swap out the spinach for Canadian bacon.

        Pop that in a hot oven on an equally hot pizza stone ---
        yum.

        LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

        by dinotrac on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 04:57:41 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Local chains are also pretty good (0+ / 0-)

      We've got Pizza Chicago here -- small chain (stores in San Jose, Santa Clara, Palo Alto and maybe a couple other places) doing good Chicago-style deep dish.

      "If we ever needed to vote we sure do need to vote now" -- Rev. William Barber, NAACP

      by Cali Scribe on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 04:25:44 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Exactly. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      blue aardvark

      Whenever possible, buy local.

      I have 4 local pizza places within a 10 block radius of my place, and a Pizza Hut.  I will never go to the PH.

      It is hard to imagine a town too small to have a local pizza place.  If it is big enough to support a chain, it is big enough to support home grown, and the latter will probably be better and get better business.

      I am not religious, and did NOT say I enjoyed sects.

      by trumpeter on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 04:32:52 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Marginal costs and all… (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jfromga, ssgbryan

    … some CEO's believe they can't spell "millionaire" without first saying "mill".

    PJ's Schnatter will try to find a way to squeeze the very last half-cent he can from every worker, and pass the cost to his consumers, which —SURPRISE!— is the way Capitalism so artfully works. Granted. All good. But throwing a hissy-fit attempting to scare people from actually buying his own product, showing how much a douche he really is, benefits his own business exactly in which manner?

    Some people just never learn to shut the fuck up and take the money.

  •  14 cents a slice? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jfromga

    Terrified.

    -5.38 -4.72 T. Atlas shrugged. Jesus wept.

    by trevzb on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 08:52:23 AM PST

  •  It's crazy that we (17+ / 0-)

    talk about health care costs and do not focus on Schnatter's $2.7 million compensation package that is there because laws allow him to take advantage of his help.

    We have been paying for health care costs of his employees all along; because he doesn't. He passes the cost on to taxpayers (and that's whether or not you eat his pizza).  When people don't get good wages and health care the burden goes to social services to compensate for their lousy employers treatment.

    Why can't the right see that lack of decent wages is the main reason for the rise in food-stamps?

    Be the change you want to see in the world. -Gandhi

    by DRo on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 09:04:49 AM PST

  •  SO THE F What??? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ssgbryan

    Even if it costs 50% more per pizza, who is thinking

    "Well I would like to save the lives of innocent people, but only if I don't have to pay more for a pizza."

    ???????????

    To keep our faces turned toward change, and behave as free spirits in the presence of fate--that is strength undefeatable. (Helen Keller)

    by kareylou on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 09:20:26 AM PST

  •  Eat a Godfathers for lunch and Papa's for dinner (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    trumpeter

    And go to the Doctor ASAP.  Make me want to puke.

  •  Scary the public into political action (0+ / 0-)

    and then writing off the losses...that's fun.

    The symbol for the Republican party shouldn't be an elephant -- it should be a unicorn.

    by Deadicated Marxist on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 04:21:26 PM PST

  •  all that and their pizza sux too. (0+ / 0-)

    "To recognize error, to cut losses, to alter course, is the most repugnant option in government." Historian Barbara Tuchman

    by Publius2008 on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 04:24:38 PM PST

    •  More about Papa John's and money (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DRo
      Franchise stores owners pay a royalty fee 5% of net sales to Papa John's International, and up to 7% of net sales on advertising efforts.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/...

      This reminds me of something I learned in High School Driver Ed....how auto manufacturers spend waaaay more on chrome decorations than on safety features at the time.

      NOTE: I'm for Single Payer healthcare and no employer involvement.

  •  The bad publicity he got from this will cost him (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jtb583, suesue, gorgonza, argomd

    more than healthcare. Jackass.

    stay together / learn the flowers / go light - Gary Snyder

    by Mother Mags on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 04:29:50 PM PST

  •  whatever his pizza still sucks (0+ / 0-)

    "It strikes me as gruesome and comical that in our culture we have an expectation that a man can always solve his problems" - Kurt Vonnegut

    by jazzence on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 04:32:43 PM PST

    •  It sucks, but it ain't his pizza (0+ / 0-)

      in any sense except he bought some pieces of paper. I doubt he's be able to make a pizza, even the PJ crap, if his life depended on it.

      Remember what happened when we turned the country over to that dumbass rich kid? So now we're thinking about doing it again? Really?

      by DaveW on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 05:05:39 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Simple, fire two execs (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    flavor411

    Insure thousands of low-paid workers, improve life for them AND their families.  

    But the fact that one guy's compensation package is more than half the low-end estimate for complying with the law and insuring more workers is bad enough.
    Sounds like a terrific trade-off to me.

    "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

    by lgmcp on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 04:33:39 PM PST

  •  I will take a wild guess that capping CEO pay (7+ / 0-)

    at $1M a year would do more to restore American competitiveness than all the anti-union bills ever promulgated, combined.

    Economics is a social *science*. Can we base future economic decisions on math?

    by blue aardvark on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 04:34:31 PM PST

    •  BA, let's cap it at no more the 50% of the (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ms badger, blue aardvark

      highest wage earner, or 1% of profit. The CEO can pick, but all earnings will be based on US made profits. Made a Billion overseas, great, to bad that will not increase your pay. Send that money to the shareholders.

      That and a transaction tax on stocks would turn the ship on a dime.

      "Anything We got, We Got The Hard Way" Mary Chapin Carpenter.

      by vzfk3s on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 05:17:47 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  He has no problem giving away 2 million pizzas (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    drmah, vzfk3s

    at an average of $10 a pop (total cost $20 million) yet he screams an yells about $1 million to pay for basic healthcare.

    "Now watch what you say or they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, a fanatical criminal" -- Logical Song -- Rick Davies & Roger Hodgson

    by Over50Lib on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 04:34:46 PM PST

    •  Denny's, Papa Johns, Applebee's (0+ / 0-)

      It occurred to me today that all this screaming about Obamacare by restaurant owners is being done by guys who would use any excuse they can find to get an extra nickle out of their employee's or their customer's pockets........

      These greedheads need to have their own car elevator in their very own 20 car garage, don't cha know.
      It's called keeping up with the Romney's.

      They can't do that if they have to be fair with their employees,
      or serve real food instead of the garbage they serve.

  •  Here's what I don't get (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rhauenstein, DaveW

    If I found out that by adding a nickel to the cost of my 10-dollar-ish widget and therefore give health insurance to ALL OF MY EMPLOYEES, I would be ECSTATIC.

    ESPECIALLY since all my competitors will have to do exactly the same thing.

  •  Papa Has A Personal 22 Car Garage (0+ / 0-)

     And the delivery guy will be cut to 22 hours and the pie price will rise.

  •  A registry of companies with GOPer CEOs... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    HouTxLib, rhauenstein, vzfk3s, gorgonza

    who are pushing this kind of nonsense should be compiled and as widely disseminated as possible.

    A handy list of bad actors to let people know who to boycott would be quite welcome.

    The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -- John Kenneth Galbraith

    by richardak on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 04:37:17 PM PST

  •  Its a POS pizza anyway, so don't buy any (0+ / 0-)

    And hence, the slacking demand will cause him into some extreme pricing promotions or discounts -- which will cost him more and dearly as well...

    But again, why bother? -- its a POS product

    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -- Mark Twain. Ode to Social ME-dia: Sweets and tweets, self indulgently fed. First widens seats, second fattens heads -- Dcrolg

    by dcrolg on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 04:38:10 PM PST

    •  I actually like Pappa Johns pizza (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      suesue, kovie, gorgonza

      But I won't spend a dime on another one.

      Choose Hope not Hate in 2008, Reject McCain/Palin

      by HouTxLib on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 04:43:35 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Really? I tried it once and that was enough (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        dcrolg

        to last me forever. Don't you have any decent pizza joints where you live?

        Remember what happened when we turned the country over to that dumbass rich kid? So now we're thinking about doing it again? Really?

        by DaveW on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 05:09:05 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  National chains don't do pizza justice (0+ / 0-)

          They productionalize it, with an assembly line process; the pies have no soul.  Local shops put love into them.

          Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -- Mark Twain. Ode to Social ME-dia: Sweets and tweets, self indulgently fed. First widens seats, second fattens heads -- Dcrolg

          by dcrolg on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 06:26:33 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  I confessed to that below (0+ / 0-)

        Perhaps like is too strong a word, but if you can forget that it's not really pizza so much as bread, sauce and cheese, it's not THAT bad.

        What's bad is its owner's policies.

        "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

        by kovie on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 05:12:19 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  We can both win... (0+ / 0-)

    Liberals and Democrats can stop eating his crappy pizza because he's a douche who doesn't want to insure his workers, his company can then go out of business, and then he can blame the health care law for it.

    Liberals take pride in getting a shitty company to go out of business and Schnatter can say that it was all because he didn't want to insure his workers. Everyone wins!

  •  I'm waiting for a pizza chain to (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    suesue, flavor411, catfood

    announce that they're lowering the cost of their pizzas by 14 cents a pie as a gimmick to get more business from disaffected Papa John's customers.

    Then we'll see how big Papa Schnatter's cojones are.  

  •  What's 0 x .14c? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mr MadAsHell

    Because that's the amount I'll be spending on Papa John's pizza.

    New Arizona state motto; 'Yeah, but it's a dry hate!'

    by Fordmandalay on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 04:42:15 PM PST

  •  Papa John's "pizza" (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mr MadAsHell, DaveW

    and the fact that consumers buy it (at all) is an indictment on culinary tastes in America, period. The less people who buy it, the better.

    The same goes for all chains that claim to "specialize" in pizza. Yuck. Cardboard with crap on top.

  •  Can we Organize Boycott? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rhauenstein

    I would like to start an effort to really hurt the business bottom line since they are bitching about ObamaCare.

    Choose Hope not Hate in 2008, Reject McCain/Palin

    by HouTxLib on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 04:42:40 PM PST

  •  to paraphrase the late great film critic (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DaveW, kovie

    Pauline Kael, if a contest were held between a Papa John's pizza and a tub of sewage runoff to see which was less edible, the bucket of sewage would LOSE.

    If this piece of shiitake would like to close down every one of his miserable, extravagantly-false-advertised "pizza" stores, the world would be a better place in less than 30 minutes or your money back. I watch him on my TV, cavorting with the equally-as-idiotic right-wing douchebag Peyton Manning as he hypes his big 2-million-unit giveaway promotion, and I think OMG this pizza is so bad he can't even GIVE it away.

    Really I'd like to see a video-game style duel (new XBox game: Pizza Wars) in which the owner of a Ray's Pizza in NYC (or of an Escape From NY or Arinell in the Bay Area) slays the evil Papa John and makes the world safe for pepperoni again :O

    "Some of you are going to die... martyrs, of course, to the Freedom that I will provide!"

    by emperor nobody on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 04:45:41 PM PST

  •  He can raise his prices 10 to 14 cents without a (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jtb583

    problem and people who eat that shit will continue to do so.  Saying he has to do it because of Obamacare is simply a lie, and he knows it.  But he's a Romney guy, and Romney guys never tell the truth...hell no.

    Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

    by darthstar on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 04:46:41 PM PST

  •  Don't eat their (0+ / 0-)

    crap pizza. One thing I have not seen any shortage of in the US is pizza shops.

    If... the machine of government... is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then, I say, break the law. ~Henry David Thoreau, On the Duty of Civil Disobediance, 1849

    by shigeru on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 04:46:55 PM PST

  •  I find this really hilarious and here's why... (0+ / 0-)

    The Diary is about Papa John's right? Scroll down to the body of the story and you'll find an ad for Papa John's pizza. Ohhh, the irony!!

  •  These are simply not good businessmen (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    HouTxLib, jtb583, Mr MadAsHell

    Jack Welch, Papa John's CEO, the Denny's franchisee, Chick-Fil-A all seemed to have miss a basic business principle keep your politics and religion out of the bottom line.

    You want customers from all walks of life and political persuasion to find common ground with your product. It is a stupid, unforced error to politicize your product, whether it's for the left or the right, unless it is going to increase your business long term.

    Positioning their brand as the home of higher prices and unhealthy, overworked, underpaid staff must be a nightmare for their respective public relations agencies.

    The choice of our lifetime: Mitt Romney, It Takes A Pillage or President Barack Obama, Forward Together.

    by FiredUpInCA on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 04:48:09 PM PST

    •  It's less a business model than a profit model (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      FiredUpInCA

      with an assumed lifespan that the initial investors make sure to dump before it starts its inevitable slow decline into bankruptcy. The Romney/Gekko model.

      "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

      by kovie on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 05:09:52 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Melby is doing the wrong calculation, but that's (0+ / 0-)

    what happens when you care more about heat than light.

    The more (but still not truly) right calculation is to divide the increased costs -- net of tax consequences -- by the number of pizzas sold.

    Papa John's sells about 17 million pizzas a year.
    If we use the lower $5 million dollar estimate, then multiply by .6 to correct for 39% in tax write-offs, we get $3,000,000 divided by 17,000,000 pizzas, which is about $0.17 a pie (or $0.18 per pie if you round rather than truncate).

    That's higher than claimed, even though we took the low estimate of costs -- but -- Papa Johns also sells soft drinks, wings, chicken poppers, and assorted junk, so Schnatter's per-pie estimate is probably pretty close to reality if his estimates of total increased costs are right.

    LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

    by dinotrac on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 04:49:18 PM PST

  •  The only thing that terrifies me about (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    suesue

    Schnatter's business is his product. He could give it away for free and I still wouldn't eat it. there's plenty of other places around if I really want to eat crappy pizza, although Pappa John's is by far the worst.

  •  as a side note, his employees will have healthcare (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    suesue, DRo

    i suppose that's meaningless to him though.

    I used to work for Starbucks and they made it easy for even part time employees to get very good healthcare coverage.  They have been doing this for a very long time and Starbucks is one of the most successful and profitable retailers in the world.

  •  Maybe jackasses like this guy (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    suesue

    should've supported the public option if he didn't want to pay for his employees' healthcare.

  •  Sorry but Papa Johns Sucks (0+ / 0-)

    Ordered it one time.  Worst Pizza I ever had.  

  •  I don't care what he does with the price (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    HouTxLib

    I don't care if he dropped the price of a pie - I refuse to give Schnatter one red cent.  His right wing douchebaggery cost him a loyal customer in me.  Plus, I'd like to get healthier!

  •  How come he's giving away 2 million free pies... (0+ / 0-)

    If it's so bad, how can he afford to give away those 2 million free pizzas that Peyton Manning promised in those commercials?!?!?

  •  Papa John's pizza is dead to me forever. (0+ / 0-)

    We didn't eat table grapes in the late '60's, he couldn't give me the shit today.

    "Life is short, but long enough to get what's coming to you." --John Alton

    by Palafox on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 04:55:58 PM PST

  •  What's the cost of a PJ to the average American's (0+ / 0-)

    health?

    If you consume one PJ pizza a week, what does that do to your various health meters? Sends them straight to the toilet, is what it does. This schmuck ought to be paying us to eat the damn things.

  •  Thanks for calling a liar a liar (0+ / 0-)

    These new republicans are just that, they have no honor.  I hope that he gets his ass kicked with this $250,000,000.00 fine.  That would be the icing on the cake or the crap on a pie.

  •  Instead of a tip, leave a pkg. of Kleenex for the (0+ / 0-)

    health of the servers.

  •  Yes another CEO (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cactusflinthead

    begging for single payer?  Who knew?

    The most violent element in society is ignorance.

    by Mr MadAsHell on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 05:04:24 PM PST

  •  Less than a nickel per pie for employee healthcare (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cactusflinthead

    Wow, for less than a nickel per pie employees can have heath insurance! Thank you Mr. Papa John for helping us illustrate what a great law Obamacare really is...  

  •  Many keep focusing on the CEO's (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cactusflinthead, stevemb

    supposed concern over lose of profit due to ACA. I don't think that is the whole picture of what is bothering them.

    I think what is really behind their hate is that they will no longer get to pick and chose which, (if any). get health care. If You see yourself as all that is good and right, and someone comes along and says hold on a minute there, egos start to fall.

    To my mind the CEO's are crying more about not having 100% control of the worker bees then anything else.

    "Anything We got, We Got The Hard Way" Mary Chapin Carpenter.

    by vzfk3s on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 05:05:48 PM PST

  •  A confession (0+ / 0-)

    I actually don't hate PJ's pizza. Oh, it's not very good pizza. In fact I don't really think that it's fair to call it pizza. It's more of a pizza-like product that resembles spongy foccaccia with a little tomato sauce and cheese on top, heated in an oven. I.e. a large round soft breadstick with sauce and cheese. I.e. a big apetizzer.

    They even give you this little tub of soft garlicky-butter saucy-type stuff that I usually save for when I boil an artichoke and need something to dip it into, and a whole pepperoncini. As such, it's not all THAT bad. I like that they don't put a lot of cheese on it because it makes it less fatty, like a good breadstick should be.

    So there, I just confessed to kind of liking a pizza-like large round breadsticky-like food product that I don't intend to buy anymore because the CEO of the company that makes it is a gynormous penis with misanthropic tendencies. I do intend to redeem my last remaining free pizza voucher. Hey, it'll cut into their profits!

    "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

    by kovie on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 05:06:52 PM PST

  •  3.4 to 3.6 cents a pie? (0+ / 0-)

    They could sell them for that much, and I still wouldn't buy their horrible pizza.

    The sooner we realize the mythology of the Bronze Age has no bearing on the morality of the Information Age, the better off we will be.

    by xenothaulus on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 05:07:21 PM PST

  •  I love when (0+ / 0-)

    mulch-millionaires complain about giving little people health care

    We only think nothing goes without saying.

    by Hamtree on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 05:08:02 PM PST

  •  Forbes' Caleb Melby Does The Math (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DRo, cactusflinthead

    Oh, piffle. Everybody knows that math has a liberal bias.

    On the Internet, nobody knows if you're a dog... but everybody knows if you're a jackass.

    by stevemb on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 05:09:14 PM PST

  •  Since tomorrow is PJ's Appreciation Day (0+ / 0-)

    I'm taking the wife across the street to Pizza Ziya's, our locally-run pizzeria. We'll be able to sit down, have our order taken, drinks brought to us, and enjoy an excellent pizza with cannolis for dessert.

    And this place also delivers, so we can always get a pie at the door before the football game Sunday.

    Papa John's: Just. Say. NO.

    "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" - Red Green

    by FlashfyreSP on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 05:14:15 PM PST

  •  Whining about the Cost of Doing Business (0+ / 0-)

    Clearly this is only a political threat, not a business decision.  He hasn't whined about having to account for the effects of the drought-caused increase in food prices.  The increased cost for cheese and flour will likely exceed the cost of insuring his employees.  

    In fact, PJ's does business in over 20 countries.  I bet there are varying costs in each country.  That's just the cost of doing business.  I would gladly pay a few extra cents to make sure my pizza wasn't delivered by a sneezing disgruntled part-time employee.

  •  OH... (0+ / 0-)

    Too late...No PAPA JOHN'S for me...

  •  It no longer matters (0+ / 0-)

    No matter what this ass-wipe does the damage is already done.  Papa Johns is off limits from here on out.  I just wish Peyton Manning would dump him too.

  •  Papa John's pizza (0+ / 0-)

    is crap on cardboard anyway you slice it. I hope all their workers will find jobs in some non-franchise pizza joint that makes an honest pie. They will get my respect, and business.

  •  So about 1%? No problem! (0+ / 0-)

    Whether or not the initial figure or the correct doesn't really matter.  For as long as I've been paying attention we've been told that we "can't afford" universal (or semi-universal) coverage.  Yet now we have a price: 1%.  So for an extra 1% on the cost of everything, 35 million more people get coverage and we all get the benefits, guarantees and controls that Obamacare offers?  That is a-okay with me.  If we're fine paying an extra 1% for the products these companies sell so people don't have to be treated by Remote Area Medical volunteers in animal stalls, Schnatter and his ilk should just shut up already.

  •  Papa Johns (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rhauenstein

    And -- how much are taxpayers (many of whom do not go to Papa Johns) paying to subsidize their workers, via medicaid, food stamps etc?...just like we subsidize Walmart, so the Walmart heirs make the money -- just another "gift" the Republicans give to the rich...At least the Dems give a few bucks to the less than rich.

  •  I viewed Scnattters huge, huge house and (0+ / 0-)

    compound and I think he should be ashamed...How much is ever, ever enough for these people...I don't get it, I really don't..

    "Round up the usual suspects"

    by NanaoKnows on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 05:45:36 PM PST

  •  Yeah well he's got another problem (0+ / 0-)

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...
    "...class-action certification for a lawsuit that claims the pizza chain had unsolicited text messages sent to cell phones...."
    "... potential damages of more than $250 million. The plaintiffs may each potentially receive $500 or more in damages for each text message."
    OwOW OW!

    If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

    by CwV on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 05:49:49 PM PST

  •  My initial reaction ... (0+ / 0-)

    ... to Rick Perry opting to allow the federal government handle the exchange rather than have Texas set up their own exchange is, good, the more people in the federal exchange pool the better.

    But it occurs to me that I really don't know enough about the process to decide which way is better.

    What are the consequences?  
    The federal exchange will still be serviced by private health care companies.  But does this move us any closer to single payer down the line?

  •  Time to short Dardens and Papa Johns (0+ / 0-)

    While I'm certainly no stock analyst, it seems almost inevitable that Darden Restaurants, Papa Johns, and Dennys corporations may be in for a concerted attack by stock shorters, and customers.  

    Why?  Do your own research.  Just type in Obamacare and a restaurant name into Google search to read about planned actions by different corporations. Passing on costs is OK to me as a customer.  

    But I'm not OK with the following:
    -Making politicized statements on menus relating to Obamacare costs after two elections
    -Charging customers more than Obamacare costs.  (Forbes analysis indicates that Papa Johns plans to charge customers $19.5 million for the Papa Johns $6.5 million Obamacare costs.  Several other chains will add surcharges that appear to be arbitrary rather than based on cost, ie 5% surcharge.  I'm skeptical of 5% claims after Papa Johns average cost per pizza was determined by Forbes to be ~ 4 cents per pizza, about a .5% increase rather than 5%.  If Papa Johns Obamacare cost is .5%, does it make sense that Dardens and Dennys costs could be 5%, a factor of 10 difference?
    -Cutting employees hours to less than 30 hours a week to avoid Obamacare
    -Other draconian partisan efforts relating to Obamacare

    I'm a senior and dedicated progressive who frequently eats meals out, including Denny's and Dardens.  As a customer, I simply won't put up with this partisan attempt to deny middle and lower class restaurant workers access to Obamacare, especially after two elections and a Supreme Court decision.  Even idiots know that Restaurant customers are a fickle.  After the election there's a lot of motivated democrats who will take up this cause.  

    Will I boycott?  I don't look at it that way.  For me its just a personal decision on what type of place I want to eat.  Until these corporations strike a more equitable and a less partisan political tone, I'll probably shop around.

  •  Boycott? (0+ / 0-)

    I'd boycott Papa Johns on principle, but really, who eats their pizza anyway? I never have, nor will I start now.

  •  it is tempting to go by my local Papa John's... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Monitor78

    ...and lay out a ten or twenty dollar bill to each employee with a message for John Schnatter to go "fuck himself with a 2X4".  it wouldn't be much but it would at least raise their wages for a day.

    i just looked up Papa John's on wiki to see how many locations they have in the chain.  i thought it would be nice if all of the Papa John's employees could coordinate a one day walk out across the country.  worldwide there are more than 3,000 locations.  i couldn't find a number for the U.S.

    what i did find interesting was that Papa John's is planning on expanding in the U.K. from a little over 100 locations to 400-500 in the next five years.  any chance of soliciting our friends in the U.K. to shut this down?  maybe even boycotting the locations already in existence.  will they stand with the citizens of the U.S. against corporate thugs?

    I'm a blue drop in a red bucket.

    by blue drop on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 06:12:55 PM PST

  •  If I add (0+ / 0-)

    Pineapple to my pizza it costs a frickin' dollar. (apologies to the pizza purists who don't think pineapple belongs on pizza).

    The white man knows how to make many things, but he does not know how to distribute them - Chief Sitting Bull

    by cka on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 06:15:41 PM PST

  •  Sorry I can do without his pizza (0+ / 0-)

    Papa John can kiss my ass. I don't order pizza often but from now on it will be Dominoes.

  •  WTF? (0+ / 0-)

    He hasn't scred me, he has lost me.

    I just hope that all Americans punish these asswipes who talk about Obamacare surcharges and layoffs.  

  •  Papa Papa (0+ / 0-)

    I don't buy chain pizza unless I'm stoned.

    And I quit smoking pot.

  •  and, at the risk (0+ / 0-)

    of repeating myself... that is some RANK motherfuckin pizza.

    the best lack all conviction while the worst are full of passionate intensity

    by mailman27 on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 06:45:46 PM PST

  •  Here's what I wonder. (0+ / 0-)

    I wonder if these CEO's who are mad about having to provide health insurance for their employees would be amenable to the notion of single payer healthcare.

    I mean, if they dislike employer provided health insurance, what else is there?

    I'm considering writing and asking a few of them if they want to donate to the single payer cause.

    Think they will?

  •   (0+ / 0-)

    3.4 to 4.6 cents becomes 10 to 14 cents, after Schnatter adds his 6.6 to 9.4 cents take.

    -- the people are the leaders

    by in on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 07:05:48 PM PST

  •  Can someone explain the math to me? (0+ / 0-)

    If the operating expenses make up 90% of the cost of a pizza, and a typical pizza costs $12-$16, and Obamacare will cost .86%, then if seems like the 10-14 cents is correct.

    $14*.9%*.86%=`11 cents.

    What am I missing?  How does the author calculate 3.4 cents?

  •  Nice article on HuffPo (0+ / 0-)

    here

    I have talked about this concept on facebook and in some comments on DK, and it is nice to get the numbers.  The HuffPo piece talks about Ian's Pizza in Wisconsin, and how they are happy about Papa John's whining.  Since Ian already provides benefits, they have no penalty and thus don't have to raise prices.  Papa is hosed, and he would be better off shutting his mouth and hoping his price increase goes under the radar.

    One thing was mentioned in the article that I didn't realize - Papa John's (and presumably the Denny's franchises in FL) can't even compensate for the Obamacare penalties by lowering employee wages because they already pay minimum wage.  Makes sense - if healthcare costs go up, my employer might have the option of taking it out of our raises.  Papa doesn't.

    Places like Ian's will no longer be at a disadvantage for being non-jerks.  Life is good.

    No one could make a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could do only a little. - Edmund Burke

    by AdirondackForeverWild on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 07:27:10 PM PST

  •  Permanently off my menu, Papa John, and (0+ / 0-)

    I work in an office that regularly purchase lunch for the company. Your so-called restaurant is just down the street. Funny thing is there are lots others. You won't be seeing any of our dollars anymore. Enjoy your freedom to be a complete dick, ya' bast'hd.

    Send conservatives to FilthyLiberal.com for re-education.

    by filthyLiberalDOTcom on Mon Nov 19, 2012 at 07:40:34 PM PST

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