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Chris Hayes has brilliantly articulated in clear, unmistakable terms how U.S. policy toward the Palestinians has punished nonviolence and rewarded violent resistance.

It is a dynamic and a disparity those who follow the conflict have known for some time, but a dynamic few casual observers realize.

I implore you to spend three minutes and watch this segment, which begins 40 seconds into the clip. For it is a piece of pure genius from an expository point of view:

Visit NBCNews.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy

As the Palestinian Authority and Mahmoud Abbas prepare for their vote in the U.N. on Thursday to gain a non-member state observer status – an effort the U.S. tried to thwart – remember this clip from Hayes.


Originally posted to Writing by David Harris Gershon on Tue Nov 27, 2012 at 09:50 AM PST.

Also republished by Adalah — A Just Middle East.

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Comment Preferences

  •  I know you're busy, but if anyone has a chance (8+ / 0-)

    to post a few words - a sentence or two - of the jist of this concept.  Some of us have firewalls at work which block all videos.

    I can easily imagine that this is the case. I'm just curious what is said.

    Thanks!

    "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

    by YucatanMan on Tue Nov 27, 2012 at 10:07:08 AM PST

    •  Hamas fires rockets and gets... (19+ / 0-)

      ...relaxation of the blockade.  Abbas quells violence, and settlements in the West Bank grow.  It thus pays to lob rockets.  And years ago, Obama, then an Illinois up-and-comer, acknowledged terrorism to be a tactic among many, that could be made more or less useful by our actions or inactions to alter the circumstances that those employing that tactic used to justify it.

    •  quickly. Please make corrections. (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      YucatanMan, eXtina, corvo, codairem, AoT

      Palestinian Authority -- the head in West Bank cooperates, is rewarded by increased settlement building. Peaceful protestors are arrested, harrased, killed(?)

      Hasa shoots into Israel, kidnapped a soldier, is rewarded by getting results.

      This is rewarding violence.

      In the discussion afterwards, the down side: the infrastructure destruction in Gaza goes faster. Hayes asks that person, which place would you rather live? He said "West Bank", but insisted that's beside the point.

      A clip of Barak Obama, years back, discussing terrorism as a tactic rather than someone being intrisically a terrorist.

      Deserves a second listen, when I have time.

      The boss needs you, you don't need him. -- France general strike, May 1968

      by stargaze on Tue Nov 27, 2012 at 10:34:01 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I guess the West Bank would be preferable (8+ / 2-)

        unless it was your home and land that is seized next for an illegal settlement, though, right?

        Sounds interesting and certainly logical.  

        The Israeli RW government also likes to be the "victim" of terrorism (generally ineffective little rockets) because it: 1) gets right wingers elected to government over and over;  2) serves to justify their continued harsh treatment of people they consider less than human; 3) serves to justify the meme that "we can never live with such people" so the settlements must stay (to push the Palestinians out).

        "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

        by YucatanMan on Tue Nov 27, 2012 at 10:40:02 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  innefective little rockets? (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          volleyboy1, JNEREBEL

          Hamas isn't the ME branch of Hobby Lobby handing out celluloid rockets.  

          And we sail and we sail and we never see land, just the rum in the bottle and a pipe in my hand...

          by Mortifyd on Tue Nov 27, 2012 at 10:59:13 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  The rockets are inaccurate and can punch a hole in (7+ / 0-)

            a wall or ceiling, yes, but are not powerful enough to level three or four houses like a single 500 lb bomb dropped by Israeli F16s.  They are not as accurate as Israeli drones and not as powerful as Hellfire missiles fired by drones.

            They are not as effective as tank fire. And few get through the "Iron Dome."

            They are literally "little rockets" in the comparison both of military capabilities and more specifically in the comparison of missiles in various armaments.

            No, they are not firecrackers.  Yes, they could kill someone if they were close enough.  But no, they are not huge destructive weapons they are implied to be on the news.

            "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

            by YucatanMan on Tue Nov 27, 2012 at 11:23:20 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  but that isn't what "home made rocket" implies (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              volleyboy1

              to people who are familiar with hobby shop type toys and not munitions - ie people who live in the west.  They are weapons.  Not the biggest or the baddest, but they are STILL weapons and not toys.

              And we sail and we sail and we never see land, just the rum in the bottle and a pipe in my hand...

              by Mortifyd on Tue Nov 27, 2012 at 01:28:07 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Did I say "home made rocket?" (5+ / 0-)

                I'm not making up "ineffective" on my own:

                In 2006, the Israeli Ministry of Defense viewed the Qassams as "more a psychological than physical threat.:"

                “Clearly everyone wants to be surrounded by concrete block, but we need to remember that Qassams are more a psychological than physical threat. Statistically they cause the fewest losses, and therefore we must develop prevention systems but not invest all the money in this aspect.”

                "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

                by YucatanMan on Tue Nov 27, 2012 at 02:17:02 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

            •  Their lack of accuracy make them even more of (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              volleyboy1, livosh1

              a terrorist attack. The rocket attacks are war crimes as they are fired into civilian areas and kill and injure  civilians.

              Your effort to de-emphasize these terror acts is reprehensible.

        •  Please source the accusation (0+ / 0-)

          That Israel actively takes Palestinians' homes when settlements are expanded.

          There is a difference between that and the (more common, sometimes accurate) accusation that settlements have been built on land that was owned by Palestinians pre-1967 but which they abandoned or were kicked out of during/immediately after that war.

          Israel took an old Turkish rule about building on uncultivated, unsettled land and used it as a justification for Settlement building.

          Here is what you wrote:

          unless it was your home and land that is seized next for an illegal settlement, though, right?
          Again, please provide a source that this is happening today.

          If you believe that ALL criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're an idiot.
          If you believe that NONE of the criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're a fool.
          If you call EVERYONE who criticizes Israel antisemitic, you're just an a$$hole

          by A Gutin Daf on Tue Nov 27, 2012 at 04:00:21 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Well, is the Israeli Supreme Court sufficient? (7+ / 0-)
            Migron among largest outposts
            Built in 2001 by ultranationalist Israelis just 10 miles north of Jerusalem, Migron is among the largest outposts, and was widely seen as a symbol of the government's refusal or inability to confront the powerful settler lobby.

            Last year, Israel's Supreme Court determined the outpost was built on private Palestinian land and must be dismantled, but petitions by the government and settlers delayed the pullout until now. After approving several delays in recent months, the Supreme Court last week set Tuesday as the final deadline.

            Not "abandoned" but "private Palestinian land," meaning the land had owners but was seized and built upon anyway.
            "I am talking about Thou Shalt Not steal.  What is more basic than that?'' adds [Israeli attorney] Sfard, who attributes his work on behalf of Palestinians partly to his knowledge of what Jews suffered historically as a persecuted minority. ''I have an allergy to situations where the strong, the majority is exploiting and maltreating the weak, the minority,'' he explains.

            Court holding firm

            The hearing on Ulpana was held after attorney-general Yehuda Weinstein backed away from a state commitment a year ago, that was enshrined as a supreme court ruling, to demolish 30 settler apartments for being built on private Palestinian property.
            ...

            Harbi Hasan, a Palestinian landowner on whose property the settler buildings in Ulpana – or Jebel Artis, as it is known in Arabic –  were constructed, praises his Israeli lawyer for doing ''an excellent job.'' Hasan, 71, who grew up in the village of Dura al-Qara and recalls his family growing grapes on the land on which the settlers built, says: "From Dura, I can see the buildings of the settlers on my land. Just imagine the feeling. Getting it back will mean everything.''

            Or Haaretz:
            Security forces are due to demolish a structure in Mitzphe Yitzhar, another of Yitzhar's "satellite" outposts. A High Court of Justice ruling determined that the home, built on private Palestinian land, would be evacuated according to operational considerations.

            "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

            by YucatanMan on Tue Nov 27, 2012 at 06:25:49 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Also what's happening in East Jerusalem. (4+ / 0-)

              or Susiya.  See also this from Haaretz.  

              •  Interesting. That's from Feb 2012 and includes: (4+ / 0-)
                Family members, who are being represented by Rabbis for Human Rights, say the settlers use threats and violence to keep them from their land and have even shot at them. The family says the Israeli security forces are not enforcing the law and the Civil Administration is not protecting the family's right to the land, even though it is in Area B.
                and:
                In many cases, the report says, Palestinians leave their communities because of violence by settlers, demolition of houses and difficulty in accessing services and resources.

                During the first six months of 2011, the UN agency documented 342 demolitions of Palestinian-owned structures, including 125 residential structures. This is almost five times the number of structures demolished during the same period in 2010. The number of people displaced also increased by around five times during the same period.

                "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

                by YucatanMan on Tue Nov 27, 2012 at 07:47:59 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

            •  The language of your post was unclear (0+ / 0-)

              usually when the phrase "illegal settlement" appears it is a reference to the entire concept of the settlements in the West Bank.

              Here you have a genuinely illegal settlement - and a successful court case to defeat that settlement.

              There is a group on the extreme right of the settler movement in Israel that is happy to steal land. There is no question that the Israeli government should be doing more to stop this. At the same time, this situation is relatively uncommon as a percentage of the total area taken up by the settlements themselves.

              Also - this is why its important in a democracy to have an independent court system.

              If you believe that ALL criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're an idiot.
              If you believe that NONE of the criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're a fool.
              If you call EVERYONE who criticizes Israel antisemitic, you're just an a$$hole

              by A Gutin Daf on Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 04:46:56 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  HR'd (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          volleyboy1, JNEREBEL

          for saying Israel actually "likes" being the victim of terrorism.

          Beyond the pale.

  •  and why might that be? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Visceral, codairem

    There is a huge global industry that feeds on the blood of violence, whether it is organized by nation or by ideology.
    Those who are interested in justice are not now, or ever have been players on the stage of history.

    sic transit gloria mundi

    by migo on Tue Nov 27, 2012 at 10:09:25 AM PST

  •  i think it's important to draw a distinction (7+ / 0-)

    between US policy on palestine and US policy in the middle east. our policy stance has improved regionally, but not in I-P.

  •  Up with Chris Hayes - the only quality (5+ / 0-)

    show on cable news. It's a pity it's on way too early in the morning. Thanks for the diary.

    “In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.” Terry Pratchett

    by 420 forever on Tue Nov 27, 2012 at 10:25:10 AM PST

    •  Everyone should DVR it. I think that was the (0+ / 0-)

      reason they went with a show this early. With dvr it doesn''t matter. It is a great show.

      You can't make this stuff up.

      by David54 on Tue Nov 27, 2012 at 11:08:51 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  This last weekend, they reran it (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      420 forever

      at noon on MSNBC.  I always record it, but was very pleased to see it get a chance at a bigger audience.  Sunday's discussion of I/P issues was especially good, and put to more shame than usual David Gregory's utterly vapid guests on the same subject (David Brooks?  Really?).

  •  On this subject (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    corvo

    Our overlords' heads are so far up their asses that no sound will ever penetrate.

  •  France (7+ / 0-)

    Just signaled intent to support PA UNGA bid on thurs.  UK might abstain or vote yes.   The international community is out of patience with the situation we have perpetuated

  •  i highly recommend this piece on Tom Dispatch (9+ / 0-)

    “It’s Mostly Punishment…” Testimonies by Veterans of the Israeli Defense Forces From Gaza and the Occupied Territories

    The testimonies of Israeli army veterans expose the truth of that “disengagement.” Before Operation Pillar of Defense, after all, Israel launched Operations Summer Rains and Autumn Clouds in 2006, and Hot Winter and Cast Lead in 2008 -- all involving ground invasions. In one testimony, a veteran speaks of “a battalion operation” in Gaza that lasted for five months, where the soldiers were ordered to shoot “to draw out terrorists” so they “could kill a few.”

        Israeli naval blockades stop Gazans from fishing, a main source of food in the Strip. Air blockades prevent freedom of movement. Israel does not allow building materials into the area, forbids exports to the West Bank and Israel, and (other than emergency humanitarian cases) prohibits movement between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank. It controls the Palestinian economy by periodically withholding import taxes. Its restrictions have impeded the expansion and upgrading of the Strip’s woeful sewage infrastructure, which could render life in Gaza untenable within a decade. The blocking of seawater desalination has turned the water supply into a health hazard. Israel has repeatedly demolished small power plants in Gaza, ensuring that the Strip would have to continue to rely on the Israeli electricity supply. Daily power shortages have been the norm for several years now. Israel’s presence is felt everywhere, militarily and otherwise.

        By relying on factual misconceptions, political leaders, deliberately or not, conceal information that is critical to our understanding of events. Among the people best qualified to correct those misconceptions are the individuals who have been charged with executing a state’s policies -- in this case, Israeli soldiers themselves, an authoritative source of information about their government’s actions. I am a veteran of the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF), and I know that our first-hand experiences refute the assumption, accepted by many, including President Obama, that Gaza is an independent political entity that exists wholly outside Israel. If Gaza is outside Israel, how come we were stationed there? If Gaza is outside Israel, how come we control it? - Oded Na’aman

    A standing army is like a standing member. It's an excellent assurance of domestic tranquility, but a dangerous temptation to foreign adventure. Elbridge Gerry - Constitutional Convention (1787)

    by No Exit on Tue Nov 27, 2012 at 10:44:00 AM PST

  •  Thanks TT (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    corvo, sofia, Aunt Martha, heathlander

    As someone who has been following the Middle East closely for over 30 years, I must admit to being a bit shocked and relieved about how the discourse is changing. Zbigniew Brezinski has also been saying that the US should be more even-handed on I/P. Here's hoping more people catch the refreshing sanity.

  •  Well, yes... (5+ / 0-)

    ..quite astute of Chris Hayes to point out this most recent example of US and Israeli policy vis-a-vis the Palestinians that typically serves to reinforce Hamas and undermine the Ramallah based PA, whom somewhat ironically, they claim to support in the case of the US, or "accepts as peace partners" in the case of Israel.

    I am strongly reminded of when Israel made the tactical decision to pull its setters and permanent military forces out of the Gaza interior, they, under Sharon, did it unilaterally, rather than negotiating and coordinating the withdrawal with the PA.   Of course that only strengthened Hamas, and in fact lead to their victory in the Palestinian parliamentary elections in 2006.   The rest is history.

  •  I sure hope that (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    volleyboy1, JNEREBEL

    Hamas doesn't follow through with the implicit (and incredibly hideous) suggestion here -- i.e., that there are more tactical gains to be made against Israel by engaging in terrorism than by swearing off terrorism. I have no doubt that if Hamas follows through with this line of thought, and either breaks the cease fire or engages in other forms of terrorism, the Israeli response will undoubtedly be massive, and Gaza will suffer many more deaths than it suffered in the most recent Israeli attacks.

  •  If we're looking for alternative approaches (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    stargaze

    a recent statement signed by Noam Chomsky, Naomi Klein, John Dugard, Alice Walker and others offers a promising approach:

    "Horrified at the latest round of Israeli aggression against the 1.5 million Palestinians in the besieged and occupied Gaza Strip and conscious of the impunity that has enabled this new chapter in Israel's decades-old violations of international law and Palestinian rights, we believe there is an urgent need for international action towards a mandatory, comprehensive military embargo against Israel."
    This echoes a similar call for a ban on arms sales made by Amnesty International.

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