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I won't tell you that this story is of immediate national importance. I won't pretend that reading this will keep us from being pushed over an artificially created, "Fiscal Cliff". It's simply another sad, silly story, someone covered at Alternet, regarding the bizarre, dare I say it, medieval concepts that some Christian groups are applying to Gay Identity and Gay Sexuality.

But then again, this is important. This could be construed as a distraction from other big issues in the press right now, however, I believe this demands that we take note. This is no less offensive to Gay people, than the "Legitimate Rape" movement by the GOP is to Women.

In fact, I will offer you that these two concepts arise from the same materials and mentality, as well as the same [better forgotten] centuries.

Follow me through the flaming orange portal if this interests you as a topic.

You can read the entire story here,which I highly recommend doing:

Christian Group Says Demon Sex Makes You Gay.

First I want to say, that Occultists everywhere are slapping their heads, epic palm style, because this is out there, even by their standards. Seriously, Incubii and Succubii? Put away the D&D Monster Manual already and join us in the 21st century.

There is an entire movement that has been afoot in the United States, generically called "Deliverence Ministries," and this movement reassigns most social ills, and personal problems to the realm of the supernatural, most specifically the demonic.

From a psychological view point, something of this sort of approach can be handy with low level problems. It mimics in some ways, the treatments offered by Shamans in pre-literate societies. However, sadly, this can and has gotten out of hand in the U.S. to the point that it has undue influence on our politics.

First of all, Gay is not Evil. It is not bad. That makes no sense in terms of understanding the spectrum of human sexuality, nor does it make sense from a theological standpoint.

So equating gayness, or gay sexuality with the demonic is inappropriate and unnecessary.

Reducing the innate characteristics of a person, to the demonic, however is very harmful. Shunning them publicly, bullying them physically or emotionally, until they give in and pretend to live life by standards that go against the core of their being though, is evil.

Is it demonic--meaning supernatural? I will leave that question alone, but I will say it is harmful, selfish, and that it puts a twisting force inside that person that will warp their entire sense of self in very negative ways.

Demons don't make you gay any more than they make you like chocolate ice cream or fast cars.  If hypothetically a disembodied being were able to settle in your brain and make you have gay sex, when that being is gone from your person, you will go back to being what you were before.

So their tale doesn't hold water on any level, whether one applies logic, or some different "standard".

Normally when we look at propaganda, the aspect of demonization of an unpopular social group is generally more subtle than this. I mean this literally puts the demons in demonization.

But what does this say about the insecurities of the "faithful" pushing this garbage? It says they don't feel secure in their own sexuality, that they don't feel secure in their own faith. Hence the need to overcompensate with controlling behavior and vilification of perceived "others" with the label "Demonic".

It's a cry into the dark: "We can't control anything, so our lack of control must be, due to demons and demonic activity, and we must find a human agent of evil--oh look it's someone different from us, that must be the root!"

To which I reply: Any feelings of being in control are at best a temporary illusion. You suffer the same fears and feelings of inadequacies as the rest of us. The difference being, the rest of us don't have to turn those fears into anything larger or more dramatic than what they are.

It's time, more than time, for these people to look within. Is it really the desire for gay sex attracts evil, or is it perhaps something darker like hatred? hatred of others, and of the self. If Christianity is indeed under constant spiritual assault, then one has to ask, with all these exorcists running amok for the past 30 years--what is it that Christians are doing wrong? Why are these exorcisms not working?

Could it be that they are blaming the wrong people for their troubles? Could it be, that their sanctimonious arrogance is the root of their problem, and that perhaps the best exorcism could start with a long hard look in the mirror? Maybe it's time to call an arborist for a little log removal?

More disturbing to me is that when a group is demonized as subhuman, that group becomes a target for violence. If one is gay, and therefore possessed by demons, then it's okay to beat the demons out of that person, to beat the gay out of person. One only has to look at the anti-gay legislation and the gay bashing in Africa, to see the end result of that.

We know torture doesn't work. How would this behavior, spiritually or physically, or socially be construed as anything other than an attempt to torture a fellow human being?  

Gayness is not an illness. Gayness is not a supernatural sign of evil either. It's simply a space or a series of spaces on the broad and varied spectrum of human sexuality. The fear mongering is unfounded bullshit. Gay people are not interested in straight people, they don't proselytize like some groups we know.  Gay people simply want to have relationships just like the rest of us. There are no dark secrets, no deeper meanings. It's just humans, looking for human warmth and acceptance.

Finding another human that accepts you as you are--now that is miraculous and way more interesting than this desire to ferret out imagined evil.

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Comment Preferences

  •  is that "Dueling Banjos" I hear in the background? (9+ / 0-)

    ...Deliverance Ministries, indeed.


  •  I wonder if the people who think this (12+ / 0-)

    sh*t up have ever met any gay people. Folks like my neighbors. Or my uncle. Or my colleagues. Or my friends. People who - just like "other" people, are simply trying to live their lives, run their household, raise their kids, hold down a job, give back to their community, celebrate holidays, and look forward to retirement.

    Those who do not understand history are condemned to repeat it... in summer school.

    by cassandracarolina on Tue Nov 27, 2012 at 12:15:30 PM PST

    •  Maybe. It's hard to tell. (5+ / 0-)

      When they expect evil and get niceness, sometimes that actually makes them more suspicious.

      Sometimes I think that these people are addicted to fear.

    •  Of course they have!! (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      An emphatic YES! - the people who say these things have indeed met gay people.  But the gay people they met were closeted gay people or gay people who keep quiet about their gayness in the face of obvious homophobia and blatant homo-antagonism.

      C'mon: roughly one in nine americans is gay.  It is almost impossible to reach your adult years without meeting a gay person.  You might not recognize that person is gay, but you have indeed met a gay person.

      So if your congregation is about 100 strong, it likely includes a smattering of gay people in it.

      "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

      by Hugh Jim Bissell on Tue Nov 27, 2012 at 01:36:19 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Dammit, this is why you NEVER sleep with... (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FG, AoT, avsp, FloridaSNMOM, GreenMother

    anybody you find "Locked up" in a dungeon who seems just a tad too well groomed for being, well, locked up in a dungeon.

    D&D rule for players with DMs with no social life.


    Seriously though, these folks really need to get a grip.  I am starting to think that If I just adopt some fantasy mumbo jumbo and call it Christianity of some form or another, some schmuck will send me money.

    Sooo, Send for your One Ring of spiritual healing!  Totally NOT forged by Satan in the fires of Hell.  Those Rings are the BAAAAD rings.

    /snark (Really! I'm done.)

    I don't blame Christians. I blame Stupid. Which sadly is a much more popular religion these days.

    by detroitmechworks on Tue Nov 27, 2012 at 12:25:02 PM PST

  •  How very "Puritan" & "Salem witch trials" of them (7+ / 0-)


    As of this morning November 7, 2012 the Includers are ascendant, and the Excluders are in the minority. [samsoneyes]

    by FlamingoGrrl on Tue Nov 27, 2012 at 12:30:50 PM PST

  •  You linked a 2001 book (0+ / 0-)

    so if there was anything afoot it was out and about 11 years ago.  So maybe this was a stupid idea that has run its course but I could be wrong.

  •  Contessa Adams' story sounds suspiciously (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    detroitmechworks, GreenMother

    like the screenplay I was once given to a movie of questionable taste. The only reason I didn't appear in it was that they failed to be able to finance in. It was the touching story of a bisexual, shape shifting, gender bending demon. I feel I missed my chance to be a cult movie star.

    The authors of the screenplay, by the way, did play D&D and dabbled in some occult stuff that looks rather silly twenty years later in the cold light of middle age.

    If these people truly believe this they have the potential to be dangerous. What they believe really does read like fiction, and I wouldn't be surprised if Contessa Adams was a pure fraud.

  •  Pretty clearly, these people are bothered by (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    their own fantasies and they'd rather blame a demon than face up to the fact that they are aroused by things they believe are perverted. Reading the article at Charisma Magazine it seems so transparent that you'd already have to be indoctrinated into their beliefs in demons to not see it.

    These spiritual rapists, as Adams describes them in her book, Consequences, often prey on people by performing sexual acts through nightmares and erotic dreams. Some people become so dependent upon these demonic experiences that they actually look forward to them.
    Adams notes that one evangelist, whose name she would not divulge, was so troubled by the sexual pleasure the succubus gave her that she even contemplated suicide.

    Adams says the succubus spirit that used to attack her confused her so much that she contemplated becoming a lesbian.

    They don't need an exorcism. They need a decent therapist and a good role in the hay.
    •  The therapy yes, I don't know about the sex part (0+ / 0-)
      •  The sex part was meant to be tongue-in-cheek. nt (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        •  It's all good. I took no offense nor offered any (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:


          A person above complained about the age of the American Exorcism book, because it was published in 2001. Honestly I highly recommend that book, I have read it cover to cover, for people who are unsure what they are looking at here, that is a good book to use, to get a handle on the movement and the mentality.

          •  I saw that comment and, perhaps incorrectly, (2+ / 0-)

            assumed the writer was young. There's a pretty wide age range among people who participate on this site and I've noticed it results in different perspectives. 2001 is hardly an old book, in my book. Sometimes I pause and I say to myself, hmm, in 1980 how would I have viewed something written in 1969? Barely relevant, I'm afraid. So I expect a young person today would see anything over ten years old as ancient history.

            It's funny to think that I probably ignored things that were still relevant when I was younger because they appeared to me to come from another era.

            •  I have this book and several others of this genre (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              American Exorcism, is really a great book. It mentions the Warrens, whom I believe have recently appeared on television shows such as Ghost Hunter or the Haunted. So to some degree aspects of this Deliverence type ministry has creeped into pop culture beyond the usual knock offs of the Exorcist.

              Sometimes how this phenomenon manifests carries certain curative qualities for people who have unusual problems in their homes. However, this story covered by Charisma is taking it far out of the realm of the paranormal and right into politics and society.

              This is where religion is being used to determine humanity.

              I would feel bad for anyone reporting that sort of violation, as it was in the story, but that doesn't give them the right to label gay people as demonic. If the people who told these stories of possession are telling the truth, then it speaks ill of the Christians around them, that they would try to profit from the feelings of shame, humiliation and violation these individuals report.

              If these people are just seeking attention, I hope that they find the help they need soon from a licensed mental health professional, so they one day they can understand why what they are doing is wrong. And why, what these Christians have done to them is wrong as well.

              •  I looked at the description of the book and it (2+ / 0-)

                reminded me of a documentary I once saw on alien abductions. It showed how first hand accounts of encounters with aliens changed when depictions of aliens in movies changed.

                As far as whether people are entirely making things up, it's probably a mix. I wasn't imagining real violations, although now that I think about it that's a possiblility as well. I was thinking that for people who have grown up in a certain environment who have homosexual thoughts, it's probably easier to blame it on a demon that to face the fact that they might be gay. The book provides an explanation and a supposed solution: Have an exorcism and those disturbing thoughts will go away.

                As far as whether people are cynically profiting off of other people's fears or if they really believe them, it's probably a mix. I confess to being very skeptical of Contessa Adams, myself. On the other hand, that screenplay writer was really into occult things and she believed them. Of course the screenplay was a fiction, so the two things are not mutally exclusive. On the other hand, my friend never profited off of her occult practices.

                Perhaps I'm flattering myself, but I like to think I have a well calibrated bs meter and Adams puts it into the red zone. There most certainly must be, among conservative Christians, individuals who have sexual desires they'd rather not have. It seems that she would have a ready-made audience. It goes very well with people who want to "pray the gay away."

                •  Yes, easier to blame it on demons when you are (0+ / 0-)

                  trapped in a community where your innate being is held up for extreme judgement, and collective hatred.

                  No one wants to be that person.

                  and yes, the story is really out there, even by the standards of more paranormal anecdotes.

  •  I've worked with at least one person (3+ / 0-)

    who probably believed this stuff. An older caseworker I knew working for a local welfare office about 13-14 years ago was totally convinced she had the power to cast out demons of possession and that they were common. Talking with her was usually an eye-opener, and also something I tended to avoid.

    My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right.
    --Carl Schurz, remarks in the Senate, February 29, 1872

    by leftist vegetarian patriot on Tue Nov 27, 2012 at 03:51:24 PM PST

    •  Well belief in the supernatural is varied (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      leftist vegetarian patriot

      and how that belief manifests can tell us a lot.

      For me, it's not necessarily the belief in the supernatural that bothers me the most. It's how they apply that belief, as a tool to determine who is human.

      For me humanity is innate.

      Secondly, using that belief in the supernatural to force compliance via threats and coercion is also suspect.

      It's very easy to make claims you expect to be honored via unverifiable paranormal experiences. That practice leaves a lot to be desired when it is openly accepted in lieu of genuine leadership qualities.

      The fact that most of this material is delivered in a shrill tone just drives the point home that their current state involves a lot of fear and panic, which are not conducive to food decision making practices on any level, with or without the demonic issues.

      •  Good--NOT food ;) (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        leftist vegetarian patriot

        Early morning typos--Gotta love them.

      •  I avoided frequent conversation (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        with the lay Christian I mentioned above not because she was uninteresting or because I did not share her beliefs--they were so different from my own that in truth I found her fascinating--but because I always felt so uncomfortable in her presence. Regardless of whether the demons she so fervently believed controlled people's actions were real outside her own mind, there were far too many of them in her office.

        As it happens, I don't believe in demonic influence. It seems like a cop out. Although I enjoy reading fantasy fiction and running and playing fantasy role-playing games, outside of the fantasy milieu the motivations of demons, as popularly conceived, are completely opaque to me. The only even halfway convincing case I can call to mind for why some disembodied spirits would care at all about corrupting human morals is found in C.S. Lewis' book The Screwtape Letters, and although I think it a masterful examination of the human condition, as a religious tract it does not even pretend to be canonical.

        In fact, I have almost no beliefs about the supernatural that are not negative in nature. That is, I disbelieve in many specific claims for religious truth while at the same time I am also unconvinced that there IS no supernatural element to reality. So far as I can see, it matters neither whether nor what I believe, as whatsoever the truth may be it can surely take care of itself whether I believe in it or not. Further, as one of the things I find implausible is the idea that there exists a rewards-based afterlife at all, let alone an even more implausible one based on what people think, as opposed to what they do, I strongly resent attempts to coerce people into "correct" thought and action by threatening them with punishment in an especially ridiculous hell. Appeals to unverifiable authority are especially unpalatable in that they do not engage the moral sense at all but instead are unveiled threats. Attempts to convince that some actions are inherently right or wrong and therefore worthy of emulation or avoidance I mind much less, even when I disagree on specifics.

        tldr--I agree with you.

        My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right.
        --Carl Schurz, remarks in the Senate, February 29, 1872

        by leftist vegetarian patriot on Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 09:45:04 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I agree with a lot of what you say, especially the (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          leftist vegetarian patriot

          last part.

          When someone claims that an omnipotent being says, "Love me and only me or else," all sorts of bells and warnings go off in my head.

          Why would an omnipotent being care if I or anyone else loves them or ignores others. It's saying, "Give me all your love-energy-power-exclusively or else".

          Or am I missing something?

          That does not impress me.

          Also I agree with your interpretation and rejection of hell. If there is an afterlife, and we know that tormented, abused people commit crimes and acts of violence, why double down on that torment? That won't fix anything, but will in fact make it worse.

          Nature has a tendency to balance things out eventually. So creating a dualistic powerplay between two extremes makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

          But that's just me.

  •  I like chocolate more than I should (2+ / 0-)

    Obviously, I need a exorcism.

    The whole goddamn thing has Idiocracy written all over it. Goes all the way to congress.

    Maybe one day the Fourth Estate will take their jobs seriously. Or not..

    by Anthony Page aka SecondComing on Tue Nov 27, 2012 at 07:41:51 PM PST

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