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Chuck Schumer
Sen. Chuck Schumer
It's hard to say whether this is wishful thinking or a little bit of shit-stirring, but Sen. Chuck Schumer says there's trouble brewing in Grover Norquist's paradise.
“Republicans in both the House and Senate are deciding they no longer want to be married to this pledge,” Schumer (D-N.Y.) said. “Republicans are saying they want a divorce from Grover Norquist.” [...]

“That alone is a leading indicator that the fiscal deal is within reach,” Schumer said, referring to those in the GOP who have distanced themselves from Norquist. “Both sides are still far apart. The discussions over the next few weeks will be difficult. But with each new Republican disavowing Grover Norquist, the chances of a deal rises sharply.”

The problem, of course, is that there's no such break happening. Whatever flirting various members might be doing around the edges of tax "reform" has nothing to do with breaking the pledge on tax rates. That's been made abundantly clear by House Speaker John Boehner. Schumer is smart enough to know this, so maybe he's just trying to keep the narrative going in the media that Republicans are in disarray.

If that's his strategy, he might be being a bit too cute. There's advantage to the Republicans in these negotiations if there's a media narrative that they're not wholly intransigent. Which they are, and which they should be called out for.

Originally posted to Joan McCarter on Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 12:51 PM PST.

Also republished by Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (30+ / 0-)

    "There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning." —Warren Buffett

    by Joan McCarter on Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 12:51:58 PM PST

  •  I would trust Norquist more (17+ / 2-)

    than I would trust Schumer that is for sure. In the upcoming process it isn't Grover we'll be needing to keep tabs on.

    He may be wrong but at least he is extremely predictable.

  •  Republicans love to be contrarians (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    pollbuster, polecat, politicalceci

    So, yeah, this could backfire into making them rally 'round the Norquist bathtub. But it could really be a sign that the lockstep of Republican obstructionism is ready to crack wide open.

    To me progress is not so much a goal as it is a process and I believe it will not follow a straight course. Remember, the drops of water that form the river may not take the shortest path but they will still reach the ocean.

    by ontheleftcoast on Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 12:59:23 PM PST

    •  Too much money at stake for that. (3+ / 0-)

      So far, anyone who has strayed has been slapped down.

      Happy little moron, Lucky little man.
      I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am!
      —Spike Milligan

      by polecat on Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 01:04:15 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  But how long can they sustain this? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        wishingwell, Dave in Northridge

        It's been 4 years now of "keeping it up" and as they say, "if your election last more than 4 years call your doctor".

        To me progress is not so much a goal as it is a process and I believe it will not follow a straight course. Remember, the drops of water that form the river may not take the shortest path but they will still reach the ocean.

        by ontheleftcoast on Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 01:05:37 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  3 election cycles to teach a politician... (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jds1978, lgmcp, HugoDog, politicalceci

          The Senate hasn't even been through one complete cycle since '08.  Republicans winning the House in '10 makes them think they're still doing it right.

          Happy little moron, Lucky little man.
          I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am!
          —Spike Milligan

          by polecat on Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 01:15:49 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  the last elections that genuinely caused the GOP (7+ / 0-)

          to moderate itself and move to the center were the three elections in 1932, 1934, 1936.

          FDR won 58% and 61% of the popular vote in 1932 and 1936.

          The Democrats won huge Congressional majorities:

          House:

          1932: 313 D-117 R
          1934: 322 D-103 R
          1936: 334 D-88 R

          Senate:

          1932: 59-36
          1934: 69-25
          1936: 76-16

          By that standard, Obama's two election victories, and the Congressional victory in 2008, are peanuts.

          That moderate phase lasted from about 1940 to 1964 when they nominated Goldwater, who was more reactionary than Hoover himself.

          So it takes a lot to make them even consider becoming more moderate, and it doesn't last more than a generation before they go swinging back to the right again.

          The Democrats have a lot of work to do if they want to really cement the coalition that we saw aborning in 2008: more diverse, younger, more concerned with the environment and equality. This election, I think, frustrated a lot of them and though many people ended up voting out of fear, the Democrats haven't really given them much to chew on to ensure their loyalty.

          A health care bill that was watered down greatly, and will be chopped down more. A modest economic stimulus that was slashed significantly. Some advances in civil rights, that may last until the next Republican president is in power. And that's really about it.

          We have yet to see a real realigning election in this generation. Perhaps we will see it soon.

          "In America, the law is king." --Thomas Paine

          by limpidglass on Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 01:48:44 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  This gets back to something I've feared (2+ / 0-)

            about the "Great Recession". It sounds terrible but in reality it seems that it wasn't bad enough to cause a real change in the nation's politics. Of course had it been as horrible as the 30's there's no guarantee we'd have ended up with another FDR. Remember, there were quite a few fascist states created in the wake of that world wide economic meltdown. We're even seeing some of it on the rise in places like Greece right now. Who's to say we wouldn't have a similar outcome here?

            To me progress is not so much a goal as it is a process and I believe it will not follow a straight course. Remember, the drops of water that form the river may not take the shortest path but they will still reach the ocean.

            by ontheleftcoast on Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 02:02:03 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  we may find out in the next few years (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              happymisanthropy

              since we are about to hit a rather rough patch.

              Europe is in recession and given the austerity mania there, any crash will be far worse than the one in 2008. China's economy is slowing down too.

              There will probably be no global commitment to economic stimulus as there was after the 2008 crash--indeed, austerity and neo-Hooverism will probably be the chosen medicine for much of the world in response to the next crisis.

              Two thirds of the entire United States was in a drought state in 2012, including 80% of all agricultural land. As a result, food prices are projected to go up next year.

              So we're in for some tough times, I think.

              "In America, the law is king." --Thomas Paine

              by limpidglass on Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 02:10:27 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Had we had McShame win in 08, (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Nick Lento

              we probably would be in a fascist spiral by now.
              As well as still in Iraq, escalating Afghanistan and fighting a new war in Iran. No stimulus, no unemployment extension, McCainvilles in major cities.....
              And to distract from the Admin's problems, open hunting season on "illegals".
              That was before Ol' Johny's ticker went and Palin took office.
              Then, all h3ll broke loose.

              If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

              by CwV on Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 02:44:00 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Wasn't bad enough? (0+ / 0-)

              That depends mightily on who you are, and whether you lost your house or saw your family descend into poverty as you tried to remember what it was like to get up in the morning and go to work.

              LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

              by dinotrac on Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 02:52:11 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Yes, it's relative, I get that (2+ / 0-)

                But we haven't seen the political or social changes that were the response to the Great Depression. OWS is a pale shadow of the labor movements of the 30's. And we didn't have 80% Democratic majorities in Congress for even 2 years let alone 6. People are clinging to the hope that if they don't rock the boat they'll be able to make it. Eventually. If you want to know how bad that delusion is take a look at how many long term unemployed voted for Romney a few weeks ago. I personally know of a couple in my little town. They've swallowed the "job creator" myth hook, line, and sinker.

                To me progress is not so much a goal as it is a process and I believe it will not follow a straight course. Remember, the drops of water that form the river may not take the shortest path but they will still reach the ocean.

                by ontheleftcoast on Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 02:57:35 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  In fairness, there don't seem to be any leaders. (0+ / 0-)

                  If you've been out of work a couple of years (I was out for 15 months at one point, and that was bad enough), it's real hard to feel very good about the guys in charge, especially when their priorities seem to be everywhere but with you.

                  But who's stepping up these days?

                  And where do you find out about them?
                  Newspapers are dying.
                  Television is fractured in a million directions.
                  The internet is damned near nano-demographic.

                  The Tea Party and OWS were, in my humble opinion, different manifestations of the same frustration, and both have faded badly.  

                  Maybe part of the problem is that few see them as different sides of the same coin -- energy that might build is divided.

                  I don't know.  I know that I'm frustrated at hell with the way things are.

                  LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

                  by dinotrac on Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 06:00:24 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

  •  Grover will want child support and alimony. (7+ / 0-)

    And maybe a pound of flesh.  He's not going to grant a divorce lightly.

    Happy little moron, Lucky little man.
    I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am!
    —Spike Milligan

    by polecat on Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 01:01:57 PM PST

  •  Schumer is helping with the Republican lie (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    limpidglass, CwV

    The Republicans are trying to convince everyone that they are willing to compromise on taxes, when they have absolutely no intention of doing so.  When Schumer says they're running from Grover, he's helping to build that narrative.

    When the Republicans demand impossible cuts be made, and the deal falls through, and it will, they will go to the public and say, "we compromised on taxes and the Democrats wouldn't compromise on cuts".

    Schumer isn't helping.

  •  How about??? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lgmcp, HarryParatestis

    How about getting 15% or so of the House Republicans to just abstain?  I'm unclear about the rules of voting in the House, but isn't this a viable notion?  Can't they just abstain from supporting Boehner and the billionaires...thereby assuring the Democratic caucus a win.  A sudden rash of flu, perhaps, or maybe a mental health day.

    I am a 67 year old teacher...teaching computer applications in a Texas high school. I've already retired once but it didn't take.

    by 43yearsateacher on Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 01:22:46 PM PST

    •  Can't have a mental health day for GOP (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      happymisanthropy

      Congressmen.  You wouldn't have a quorum if those, who really needed help, went to seek help.

      There is no hell on earth appropriate enough for those who would promote the killing of another person, in the name of a god.

      by HarryParatestis on Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 02:34:42 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Members can just not appear on the floor to vote. (0+ / 0-)

      Frankly, I think Schumer's correct.

      Republicans aren't likely to go public - yet - with their vacillation on The Sacred Pledge to Lord Grover nor to buck Boehner publicly. But they have many ways of sitting votes out if they want to. And some caving - which Boehner will insist be done in private (taking the temperature is called a "Whip count"), so he has maximum bargaining room - is highly likely.

      No one in the position of leader wants it known how fragile his coalition is. I'm thinking the real problem for many House Republicans is not the obdurateness of their colleagues but that they will have to yield publicly to Democrats' positions.

      2014 IS COMING. Build up the Senate. Win back the House.

      by TRPChicago on Thu Nov 29, 2012 at 06:17:33 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  softening up Democratic resistance (0+ / 0-)

    to a Grand Bargain, is what the senior senator from NY is doing. When this dance concludes, the GOP will have gotten 99% of what it wants and Obama will be chivvying Democrats who refuse to go along.

    The Democrats may theoretically be in a position of strength, but they were in a much stronger position before and gave away the store. So why should we believe they will take advantage now?

    The GOP was crushed in 2008 and a mere two years later came roaring back to retake the House. Why should anyone believe the stupid triumphalist narrative that they are on their last legs?

    This election victory was far less impressive than 2008 and yet we are to believe that it completely destroyed the will of the Republican party to resist. Prove it to me, I say.

    In two years they will simply rebrand--instead of calling themselves the Tea Party, they will come up with some other clever name, like the "Sons of Liberty" and pretend they are something totally new while espousing a dressed-up version of the same old shit, and if the Democratic party is in disarray, they'll sweep Congress again. You think you've seen gridlock, you think you've seen insanity. You ain't seen nothin' yet.

    When the other shoe drops, and people realize that Obama and the Democrats have exchanged infinitesimal tax increases on the wealthy for massive cuts in the social safety net, there will be an unpleasant realization that all of the president's elaborate maneuvering simply ended up giving the crazies exactly what they wanted, while dividing the Democratic party and making it deeply complicit in their insanity.

    "In America, the law is king." --Thomas Paine

    by limpidglass on Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 01:23:49 PM PST

  •  I think Grover (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jds1978, HugoDog, Hohenzollern

    is overestimating the number of Americans who know who he is let alone those who give a shit about his pledge. It's bound to be less than the # of Americans who want taxes on the rich to go back up to normal.

    I'm pretty tired of being told what I care about.

    by hulibow on Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 01:50:55 PM PST

  •  He looks like quite the smart-aleck (0+ / 0-)

    doesn't he?  I love that.  

    "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

    by lgmcp on Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 02:23:18 PM PST

  •  The proof will be in the pudding. Action (0+ / 0-)

    speaks louder than words!

  •  Norquist was on NPR this morning. (0+ / 0-)

    Man, was he having a hissy fit.
    http://www.npr.org/...

    These capitalists generally act harmoniously and in concert, to fleece the people... -Abraham Lincoln

    by HugoDog on Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 02:24:59 PM PST

    •  Caught a piece of that. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      HugoDog

      What a pig.
      And why would NPR give him the time of day?
      As for why he has any clout at all? George H W Bush pledged to not raise taxes, broke his pledge and was defeated for a second term.
      At least, that's the story according to Piggy. He's the enforcer for people that pull the strings in DC and if anyone crosses him, they will face primary opponents and have a hard time raising campaign funds.
      Hard to tell if he's more evil than Rove or if Rove is more evil, they both go to eleven.

      If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

      by CwV on Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 02:54:48 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Dems and Repubs want to keep the focus on taxes (0+ / 0-)

    where Repubs are willing to yield or at least be seen as willing to yield, so that we ignore what they're BOTH really hoping to do, which is cut entitlement programs.

    Come on people, the con is in and it's SO obvious.

    "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

    by kovie on Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 02:27:03 PM PST

  •  Grover!! (6+ / 0-)

    I have been itching to post this thing!
    Throwing Grover over the Fiscal Cliff
    .
    ... Heh!

    No more gooper LITE!

    by krwada on Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 02:28:28 PM PST

  •  What does the GOP Want? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    The BigotBasher

    They say they want to "Broaden the Base" to raise revenue.
    Code words for raising taxes for those that are too low income now to pay taxes? Getting rid of child tax credits? Eliminate EIT? Make people pay tax on employer provided insurance? Get rid of your deduction for home interest?  

    Probably all of the above.

    Just as long as the Waltons don't have to pay taxes.

    Peggy Noonan. She had Romney winning because of "vibrations." My response edited due to the possibility of insulting many people.

    by J Rae on Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 02:28:30 PM PST

  •  conservatives had no idea losing election (0+ / 0-)

    I am surprised that is not being constantly brought up.  So republicans had no idea they were going to lose the presidential election, but they have a clear picture on what to do financially?  If they did not know that they were going to lose the election why would anyone take seriously the delusions they have about what to do about a "fiscal cliff".

  •  Be nice to Grover. Please! (0+ / 0-)

    This man has pledged to run, or support GOP Primary candidates who break the pledge.  Those challengers will come from the far right.  Can you say Todd Akin, Richard Murdock?  Those 2 wingnuts got there asses kicked by the Democrats in clearly Red States.  Pulleeze be kind to Grover because he's going to help Democrats win more seats in Congress.

    There is no hell on earth appropriate enough for those who would promote the killing of another person, in the name of a god.

    by HarryParatestis on Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 02:30:24 PM PST

  •  Chuck may be wily here... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite

    because if the narrative is that they are willing to break the pledge when we know that they are intransigent, unreasonable dissimulating frauds, then they will show themselves both to be in disarray and in short shrift the huckster, lyin', unreliable creeps they truly are.  Just sayin'.

  •  Until we see the text of the deal, it's all just.. (0+ / 0-)

    BS from both sides. The Demo side is not unified in where the line should be drawn. For me it'is where Bernie says it should be.

    Plato's " The Cave" taught me to question reality.

    by CTDemoFarmer on Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 02:33:06 PM PST

  •  But...but.... (0+ / 0-)

    Marriage is SACRED!!!!

    I'm not crazy, I've just been in a very bad mood for 40 years!

    by liberalagogo on Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 02:34:59 PM PST

    •  Scared of what? (0+ / 0-)

      If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

      by CwV on Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 02:57:16 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Marriage (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        CwV

        is a scared institution that is sacred of the gays.*                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      

        *spelling intentional

        I'm not crazy, I've just been in a very bad mood for 40 years!

        by liberalagogo on Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 03:20:40 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Wonder why when Mitt dissed PBS (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite

    the meme was "kill Big Bird" rather than "kill Grover"?

    not sure why or how this diary spawned that comment, but I'm sure it's relevant somehow

  •  Methinks that someone has (0+ / 0-)

    put out a contract on Grover. All manner of stories popping up yesterday and today about how passé he is, including one from the Yahoo news feed, of all places.

    When you've lost Yahoo, you are pretty much finished as a rightwing mover and shaker.

    The truth is rarely pure and never simple. -- Oscar Wilde

    by Mnemosyne on Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 02:36:40 PM PST

  •  Norquist and Paradise in the same sentence. Ugh. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cany

    Not a place I want to be.

    God be with you, Occupiers. God IS with you.

    by Hohenzollern on Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 02:38:08 PM PST

  •  The "civil war" in the GOP is beginning. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    HarryParatestis, a2nite

    It's time for popcorn.  This feud in the GOP is about to reach Cloverfield proportions.  Guess what the monster looks like in this drama, lol.

    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin

    by politicalceci on Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 02:43:49 PM PST

  •  I don't want any deal Chuck Schumer approves of. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    stevej

    This plutocrat-friendly Senator does a shitty job of representing us, since he has zealously defended the obscene 'carried interest' provision to make sure Wall Street's hedge fund billionaires continue to pay a far lower tax rate than their janitors or plumbers.

    So if Chuck Schumer thinks that Republican second thoughts about Norquist may make a 'fiscal deal' doable, we all need to put both hands on our wallets and start calling our representatives to hold their feet to the fire.

  •  What I would give if someone would have a large (0+ / 0-)

    choir record "Grover Norquist" instead of "hallelujah" and everytime someone mentions his name, you can hear "Grover Norquist."  After all, the GOPers to pray at his altar.

    There is no hell on earth appropriate enough for those who would promote the killing of another person, in the name of a god.

    by HarryParatestis on Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 03:01:20 PM PST

  •  No they don't; they just say they do nt (0+ / 0-)

    (R's) take those tired memes and shove 'em, Denise Velez Oliver, 11/7/2012.

    by a2nite on Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 03:34:23 PM PST

  •  I'd like to divorce (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    stevej

    Chuck Schumer.

    There is nothing more exciting than the truth. - Richard P. Feynman

    by pastol on Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 03:42:49 PM PST

  •  Logistically, the problem isn't that... (0+ / 0-)

    Grover Norquist is an uncooperative and petulant partner, who refuses to grant the divorce and will fight you the whole way...

    ...but rather, Grover Norquist is a growth you have to cut out and then undergo chemo- and radiation treatments to get rid of; essentially, you have to almost die in the process of eradicating Grover Norquist from your (political) system in order to live (as a party).

    Frankly, I don't care if the Republican party dies or lives...

    I strongly believe in a two (or more) party system of democracy.  However, my belief presumes a certain minimum level of reasonable functioning which the Republican party hasn't been able to meet in quite a very long time.  Essentially, they've ceased to be useful to democracy.

    "The most potent weapon in the hands of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed." ~ Steven Biko

    by Marjmar on Wed Nov 28, 2012 at 03:50:57 PM PST

  •  Grover is just looking out for himself (0+ / 0-)

    He will lose both his status and his income.

    Grover's bad, awful day!

  •  Lawrence O'Donnell has a different take (0+ / 0-)

    He says Norquist really is getting thrown under the bus--his opening segment Wed. night goes into great detail why. It's very convincing.

    Not voting is NOT an option this time around.

    by AreDeutz on Thu Nov 29, 2012 at 12:14:11 AM PST

  •  They aren't really "divorcing" from Grover, (0+ / 0-)

    they are merely trying sell their tired old ideas with a new meme.  A big fat con is going on here.....

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