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OMIGOD!  i just read the title of my little rant and it looked like i was also screwed by etsy!  NOT - i meant to alert that i'd added some stuff finally!  damn - i never should post while fuming! (unless it is about republicans, that is...)

EDIT:  i WAS on the phone when i started this - not currently.

i am on the phone with ebay right now and i am absolutely livid beyond words!  

i am, as many of you might have picked up , moving.  i can't afford my little 800 sq ft cottage any longer and am moving into a friend's house (10x9 room to fill with a lifetime of "stuff" - and throw out what can be replaced another day.

the move is horrific - i'm not as young as i used to be and at 67, was grateful for a friend who moved the bulk of my big things in a three horse slant - two trips (LOVE ya, scottie marnell!)

so, in between taking care of sani (laminitis, cushings, insulin resistance - daily meds) and packing up and loading what's left in my old van (that has to come out of non-op, along with the little rv i lived in for years and may one day need again) - i put together some earrings and stuff last nite for etsy. when i need to raise funds to pay for the critical things, i make things.  that's how i've done it my whole life.  right now it is critical because i have to be out tomorrow.  no more extensions.

it's critical because my hand surgery that was postponed when sani got sick - now it's rescheduled to dec 21 (yay - laid up for christmas.... oh well..._  BUT - back to ebay...

here's the scoop.  i sold a saddle to pay the vet for sani's emergency treatment.  ebay now has a "nice" little policy of taking a "fee" out of shipping charges - i only charge the actual cost - so, i ended up losing money on shipping.  ebay ALSO was refusing to release the money until the item was delivered (even though it is sold as is but is perfectly great saddle that i used for sani - i don't sell stuff i wouldn't want to buy).

why the fury right now?

ebay (who owns paypal) tapped my paypal account and took the fees without my knowledge.  didn't have money in the paypal account, so paypal paid it anyway and then tapped my bank -where i ALSO didn't have any money.  $35 insufficient funds fee levied for a charge i didn't know was being charged.  i was trying to dispute the shipper fees and it still hadn't been a month since the item sold.

paypal did an investigation when i objected to the ebay automatic stealing of the money - but paypal came back and told me that i had signed an "automatic payment agreement" with ebay in 2010.  huh?

i sold a beverage cooler in 2010 - and paid the fees by paypal.  i did NOT sign a lifetime agreement that if ANY item i ever sold in the future would automatically be till tapped by ebay.  ebay keeps saying paypal set it up and paypal says ebay set it up.  so two friggin' years after selling one item, ebay has set up with paypal (they OWN paypal) to simply pay themselves without my authorization!  i am so livid i can't even begin to speak!

this has been my reminder to send the letters to both paypal and ebay tomorrow that i do NOT agree to "binding arbitration" EVER with them!  

finding the little caveat that the shipping charges would be assessed a "fee" (along with the item sold "fee") was so buried in the fine print that it took their own rep over an hour to locate where that announcement was made.

so - i am now stuck with trying to get my bank to reverse the $70 in "overdraft fees" for a payment that i didn't authorize - and if i push it with paypal, my account (which has been in excellent standing) will be trashed and limited.

why $70?  because after i disputed the payment to ebay, paypal first limited my account and suspended my debit card until i raised holy hell - that was restored, but the "claim" was dismissed because ebay CLAIMS i signed an agreement to automatically pay their fees with paypal.  i paid ONE fee in 2010 - i never signed any agreement.  i am NOT that "senile"!  so, when the claim was rejected by paypal, they dinged my bank account a second time to pay themselves for paying ebay without my consent.  i then got another email telling me to put money in my bank account to prevent any further "insufficient amount" fees from my friggin' bank!  how do you spell "extortion"?

this problem ONLY occurs with ebay transactions - paypal does not do this for anyone other than the company that owns them.  incestuous, isn't it!

so - back to the current issue at hand.  i'm moving.  i have to take my old van and rv out of non-op tomorrow - borrowed from a friend to do this - and am trying to get my pics uploaded to etsy of the new items i'm putting up.  starting today, i'll be adding every other day (or daily, if i get myself unpacked with enough room to work) AND i have to deal with damned ebay and paypal.  

i'm definitely filing a complaint with the consumer protection board over this, as well as the attorney general and california dept of fraud, btw - but not until i get the move settled.  in less than a month, i'm going in for hand surgery and during the next month, i'm having the joint replacement on the OTHER hand because one of my two surgeons is moving to texas!

oh - and the sony dcr-sx 65 software is not working with mac lion operating system - i've been trying for hours to upload from the camera - so i set up the old dell and just copied and will email them to myself to then download them to edit then upload to etsy!

ARRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

and i have to be out tomorrow - damnit - why can't i be cloned?!?

sigh - that wouldn't work - who needs multiple versions of myself that are old, arthritic and cursed!

okay - rant over for the moment - check etsy in about an hour or so if you want to see what i was doing while trying to move everything out of this house by myself (except for the two loads that scottie helped me move.)

well, back to loading and packing - only another 12-14 hrs of hell left to go...

2:07 AM PT: i've posted a few pieces to etsy - but the power is going on and off here tonite... the pineapple express is playing havoc with the wires around here - don't know how long i'll keep power/internet.  it's sporadic but we need the rain, so i won't complain.

by sunday/monday, i should have etsy filled with goodies - and i'm knocking the prices down and will be putting some inexpensive things on for those of us who are feeling the pinch this year.

if i don't get to answer all of you, it is because i am in the dark - literally!  battery powered laptops don't work without tubes!

thanks for letting me let off steam - as usual, ya'll have made me feel better.

thanks, dk family!


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Comment Preferences

  •  Hang in there, edrie! (10+ / 0-)



    Those who do not move, do not notice their chains. Rosa Luxemburg

    by chuckvw on Thu Nov 29, 2012 at 11:30:49 PM PST

  •  In my thoughts and prayers. nt (8+ / 0-)

    When you come to find how essential the comfort of a well-kept home is to the bodily strength and good conditions, to a sound mind and spirit, and useful days, you will reverence the good housekeeper as I do above artist or poet, beauty or genius.

    by Alexandra Lynch on Thu Nov 29, 2012 at 11:32:11 PM PST

    •  thanks, i'm needing that support. with the rain (4+ / 0-)

      "pineapple express blowing through norcal" - and the stuff left to load into the van - it's going to be a long, long night.

      i'm taking a break to put up the stuff on etsy - so i can pay off the extortion from ebay.  i am SOOOOOO angry that i may end up being charged for the teethprints in my ceiling when i move!

  •  Sending you hugs and prayers, edrie (6+ / 0-)

    In a few days you'll be settled and can relax a bit. I'm going to check out your shop. All the best to you, my friend.♥

  •  Sorry! (11+ / 0-)

    I'm so sorry this happened to you! But if I were you, I wouldn't spend too much time and effort and emotion on the eBay and PayPal issue, and try to chalk it up to bitter experience and move on. I've been a regular power seller on eBay for the past few years, since my work slowed waaaay down thanks to the recession, so I started buying stuff at yard sales and reselling them on eBay to make ends meet, and they actually did send out several notices about this to sellers during the period when they made these changes in policy. Since you weren't selling regularly on eBay, you maybe overlooked these message (which were in their monthly seller newsletters) or just glanced at them.

    Anyhow, I don't want to make you feel worse, but since they did notify all of us sellers in several consecutive newsletters, you're fighting a losing battle trying to report them and probably would be better off putting your energy into other things. It's a shame they don't have some leeway for people who don't sell regularly and didn't see or realize that the rules had changed. I have a couple friends who had the exact same thing happen to them as what happened to you!

    Hopefully things are turning around for you and you are headed for better and sunnier days! I'll send positive thoughts your way!

    •  my last sale was in 2010 = before that, in (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Kitsap River, rl en france, Lujane

      2003.  what galls me is the idea that because i paid the fee by paypal, that somehow automatically translates into ebay owning forever the right to automatically grab money from paypal.

      were this my bank account (also listed on ebay when i opened the account), this wouldn't have happened.

      sunny days aren't anywhere in my immediate future.  but that's another story for another lawyer and another day.

      bit of advice for everyone:

      if your parents are living - do NOT let a relative be the "executor" of the estate - not if you want to keep relations with that family member.  seems this is a common problem, unfortunately.

      estate lawyers - trusts - neutral oversight - that is the way to stop real heartache and financial disasters.

      just a tip... but that's another day's story... hopefully one i can share in 2013.

    •  oh, one more point about ebay change of policy... (6+ / 0-)

      it took their own rep over an hour to locate the "fee policy" and seller fees when i questioned those policies.  

      for those with the time and energy to search - look at the bottom of the page, beside "copyright" in greyed out letters - there is the "terms and agreements" disclaimer - in print so small and pale that it is very difficult to find.  

      that is where ebay will get into trouble.  the policies are NOT transparent and are made to be deliberately obtuse and hard to find.  that they notified those actively using the site isn't where the legality comes in - it is when the new user cannot locate these policies, even with the help of an ebay customer service rep on the line simultaneously looking for them.

      that is what i'm going after.  yes, i owed the fees.  i wanted to pay by another account, not paypal.  that i was charged and continued to be immediately charged after questioning the debit AND getting hit by overdraft fees for a policy that is not clearly and openly available to the casual seller is the fine print that gets companies in trouble.

      the rep today said he had the same problem when HE sold on ebay and was not happy about it!

      well, back to trying to load etsy...  thanks for the encouraging words....

      •   Hey edrie (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Kitsap River, edrie, snoopydawg, Lujane

        If I buy some stuff off your link  will it help? I'm willing to charge something on my credit card if it will help.

        •  it would definitely help! paypal doesn't put a (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Lujane

          hold on etsy sales - only on ebay ones.

          money from etsy is available immediately from paypal.  oh, and, if you use ebay or paypal, the letter opting out of their mandatory binding arbitration has to be in by the first.  i'm sending mine out tomorrow.

          seems they have been hit by a number of class action suits of late and their way of satisfying their "customers" is to force binding arbitration!

          tomorrow, i'll publish a letter that folks can print and sign and mail to opt out.

          i hope you like my etsy stuff - just added a few more of the ruby zoisite pieces - will add even more things by sunday.

          i'm doing pearls again - strands - as well as amethyst necklaces and much more.  the move combined with my getting the flu for ten days, then the day i got upright, sani getting sick knocked me WAY off schedule in making new items!

          •  On ETSY (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            edrie, Lujane

            you can sign up for their version of paypal.
            And direct deposit into your bank account.

            I have a bank account for on-line buying and selling and i keep  minimal $$$ in there- when i want to buy something, i do an on-line transfer.

            I stopped selling on ebay years ago - they got wise to sellers making their profits in the shipping costs- it was smart to make an end run around their fees and glad that it worked for awhile.

            Sorry you are so stressed out- everything often seems to come to a head at once.
            but take heart, things are picking up on ETSY - get some items on your page and go for it!!!

            My Ornaments at ETSY....http://www.etsy.com/people/EasyStreetGallery?ref=si_pr

            by flowerfarmer on Fri Nov 30, 2012 at 06:35:48 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  i have a paypal debit card that isn't limited. i (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              flowerfarmer

              can pull about $3k from the card a day (if only i HAD 3k to pull) and there is none of the nonsense of "holding" monies for 21 days like with ebay.  etsy operates totally differently with paypal, which is why i haven't dumped the paypal account.

              ebay, on the other hand, is now history!! i was waiting for my buyer to get her "insured" package of the saddle (i ALWAYS insure for the value so if something happens, the buyer is protected.  i'll be out the merchandise, but the buyer won't lose money).  she got the package notification today and has to sign (since it is insured) - so as soon as that is done, i'm cancelling my ebay account.  i'm so seriously done with them!

              as for paypal, if they DO start screwing around with the money, then i'll go to a merchant account and dump them, too.

              when i talked to the paypal reps, they were ALL upset at ebay policies.  if there is a dispute over a single item, ebay will make paypal freeze the entire account over it, not just the amount of the sale.  for power sellers, that is a huge problem.  again - only an ebay issue.

              i KNEW i couldn't stand meg whitman for a reason...

              i use paypal for payments online and keep a minimum balance to protect my bank account.  i never thought that my bank account would be at risk because the paypal policy is to deny any transaction where money isn't in the account.  only with ebay do they do the autopayments unless i specifically set them up which i don't do.  auto payments to a company where i cancel means that if the company still tries to collect because their company hasn't yet completed their records means that i get dinged for the payment or dinged for the overdraft if i am not expecting any more auto pays.  banks treat auto pays as a "check" and charge "insufficient funds" fees if monies aren't in the account to cover.  i had a HUGE fight with b of a over this - i'd signed a "do not process" if there aren't funds in the account (for debit card) after getting slapped with a $35 fee for going over by a few dollars on a purchase at the grocery store.

              i don't need a bank thinking for me!  a friend just got hit with $35 for a $2.00 purchase that they paid instead of denying.  it's the new money maker for banks since the crackdown on excessive fees.

              as for selling on ebay - i stopped years ago because of the abusers who would list one sterling charm at a time, causing the auctions to have hundreds of thousands of items that buried quality goods.  that is why i love etsy - they are very strict about goods either being handmade or vintage.  as an artist, i am thrilled to be able to showcase my own work.

              sunday - more stuff - i've got some extraordinary stones and pearls to ready for the holidays... so after this yucky move is done, i'll have time to play and create!

              •  B of A is horrible! (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                flowerfarmer, Lujane, edrie

                They charge exorbitant fees for things that a lot of other banks don't, and as recently as just a few years ago when I moved across the country, they held out of state checks for up to a week to "clear" when in actuality checks clear immediately nowadays.

                Here's the shocker: I opened a B of A account in Florida, but when I moved to California, they held my own money in my own B of A account and wouldn't clear their own checks because they were out of state! Their explanation was that B of A had two different banking systems for the East Coast and the West Coast and that they were not connected.

                On top of that, all the publishers I work for are out of state and I always get paychecks that are from other states. I never had a problem at any other bank with clearing these checks right away, because the other banks said they didn't put a hold on paychecks. So here I was with all this money in the bank and in paychecks, and B of A wouldn't let me touch any of it for an entire week after I moved!

                So I closed down my account as soon as I could access the money, and I switched to a small local bank, where they clear my paychecks immediately even though they are from across the country. And they told me what I already knew: that nowadays checks (at least ones drawn on major banks) clear instantly because it's all computerized. So B of A are a bunch of liars and cheats!

                One more thing: Sign up for overdraft protection at your bank. I don't know if B of A offers this, but most banks do. I've had it at every other bank I've had an account at. This gives you a cushion of $300 to $500, depending on your bank, so if you accidentally overdraw your account, it will cover any checks you write.

              •  I have also dealt with (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                edrie

                overdraft fees- when i call the bank and remind them i have been a long time customer, they always erase the fee.
                I know, you almost need an MBA to sell on-line these days- i have learned to read the small and the very small print.

                Took a look at your ETSY site- nice stuff!
                Love the jasper necklace- one thing i noticed, tho, is there was no length measurement listed for that piece.

                Hope all of the excess drama in your life settles down- moving is such a bitch!

                My Ornaments at ETSY... http://www.etsy.com/people/EasyStreetGallery?ref=si_pr

                by flowerfarmer on Fri Nov 30, 2012 at 10:02:28 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  OOPS on the length! my bad... (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  flowerfarmer

                  i"ll fix that this afternoon...  love that piece, too.  i buy stones that "talk" to me.  when i 'm picking stones out, i usually do so without "looking" first - i run my hand over the table and when something is very "active" active, i look down to see what it is.

                  stones have tremendous energy about them - from stone to stone, they all have a different feel to them.  i work alot with touch and THEN sight.

  •  I will keep my eye on your shop (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    edrie, Lujane

    I hope all works out well for you. I'm sorry you have to move! I know you're a major survivor, though, and I'm sending energy to the Gods to make sure you have everything you need.

    Organ donors save lives! A donor's kidney gave me my life back on 02/18/11; he lives on in me. Please talk with your family about your wish to donate.

    Why are war casualty counts "American troops" and "others" but never "human beings"?

    by Kitsap River on Fri Nov 30, 2012 at 12:28:01 AM PST

    •  heh heh - you are more powerful than you realize! (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Lujane

      you posted at 12:28 and the winds started to HOWL right about then!  but, i'll still take it.  with the lights going on and off, i just got handed a nights sleep and a bit more time to finish packing without the "no-sleep" thing.

      thanks!  i 'preciate it more than i can tell you!

      nothing my (wonderful) landlords can say about an act of god(ess)...

      8^)

  •  P.S. Ae all your earwires sterling silver? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    edrie, myboo

    I'm allergic to base metals and can't wear anything that's not sterling, at minimum 14k gold, or (I'm assuming) platinum, and I've even been known to react to 14k, so even that's not a sure thing. I need to know before I start asking family for a pair of earrings; I like both jade pairs and my birthday is coming up fast.

    Organ donors save lives! A donor's kidney gave me my life back on 02/18/11; he lives on in me. Please talk with your family about your wish to donate.

    Why are war casualty counts "American troops" and "others" but never "human beings"?

    by Kitsap River on Fri Nov 30, 2012 at 12:36:42 AM PST

    •  hi, kitsap - everything i do is either sterling (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Lujane

      or 15k - i do 22k on request for the cost of the materials only.  i really understand the allergy issues.

      so, i guarantee that everything is sterling or gold (and i can get platinum, too  used to do serious jewelry wholesaling).

      you shouldn't go less than 18k and 22k wires are even better.  for a good set of wires, you can change out them between earrings - you can go white gold with silver earrings and no one will know the difference (except your pocket book).

      the colors of the green green jade didn't come out true - it is really REALLY green... most likely, that means that the really really green jade is color enhanced.  the pale green jade is natural (the swirly ones.)

      i try to put disclaimers on anything that is altered.  most lapis today is color enhanced - the real colored lapis is 10x more expensive but gorgeous to the touch.  turquoise that isn't i don't buy.  too much colored sodalite - the way to tell is in the weight.  sodalite is very "light" - turquoise is a heavy stone.

      let me know if you want me to price out a pair of 22k wires for you.  it may be worth it to go 18k or higher.

      •  duh - i was tired when i typed that - i meant (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Lujane

        14, not 15 k gold.  i used to have a lot of customers who were allergic, so i just got in the habit of doing nickel free metals whenever possible.

        even then, i've had folks who could only wear platinum - even 18k gold was a problem.  22k still has some alloys but platinum is the only true inert metal.  the problem is that wires don't come in platinum - it has to be cast at 1500 or so degrees and not many local jewelers do their own casting.

  •  Edrie (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    edrie, Lujane

    Where in CA are you located? Are you in the SF bay area? (I ask because the ABC affiliate here has a kick-ass consumer advocacy staff, and this Paypal/Ebay bullshit sounds right up their alley.)

    •  oh, yeah! i'm in los gatos until the end of day (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Lujane, Horsefeathers

      tomorrow - but staying in the bay area.  that is a brilliant idea!  michael finney is awesome - is he the one you're thinking about?

      i'm only on and off for a minute - i'm getting lights on, lights off - storm is heavy right now... so if i'm absent for a bit, it's taking the intertubes with it.

      •  Yes! Michael Finney! (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        edrie

        This story is perfect for them. (And I don't think it would hurt if you let Ebay/Paypal know -- during your next phonecall with them -- that you intend to do it.)

        •  i think paypal may be a wee bit nervous around (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Horsefeathers

          me after i threatened to leave sani's "carcas" on ebay's front lawn if he died because they weren't releasing the funds from the saddle sale.  the guy on the phone at paypal was really nice - the money was released immediately - he said it is ebay that dictates the policy on items sold on their site - etsy and others who accept paypal don't have the same draconian policies.

          i'm almost done with this blasted move - then i'll be back on top of this.  as for ebay, i'll not buy or sell on that site again.  they have totally soured my opinion of their operation.

          i love michael finney - almost as much as len tillem.  len moved to 910am after kgo was destroyed by cumulus, which, btw, kgo has now returned the favor by killing cumulus' ratings average by "underperforming"!  couldn't have happened to a more deserving company!

          finney used to do a spot on kgo, too, if i remember correctly - i think it was a once a week spot on friday on the news side?  both kgo radio and tv were abc affiliates.  i'm not sure if kgo radio is still is.

  •  Good luck edrie (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    edrie

    Best wishes

    Happy just to be alive

    by exlrrp on Fri Nov 30, 2012 at 05:06:02 AM PST

    •  thanks - power on for a while now - been (0+ / 0-)

      packing up more stuff - i will get moved today - just don't know what time.  now that i've got a taste of making jewelry again, i don't want to stop!  

      working with the stones was centering last nite - and stringing pearls is my "zen" - so by the weekend, i'll be working like mad and loving it!

      rain is still whipping around here tonite - this means winter has FINALLY come to california.  the worst part of the storm is that my van is directly under a passel of wires that looked like the night critters were playing double dutch using them.  

      it was so windy that the pilot for the hot water heater (outside on neigbor's cottage side) blew out and no hot water until morning when he re-lights it.  i'm not volunteering!

      that's why i know for sure i'll be out by tomorrow night - a hot shower or soaking bath awaits!  8^)

      i'm so excited - two of my pieces sold tonite!  monday, it's off to the post office for priority mail.

      i love it when people like what i put together... things really do come with a bit of "me" in them and all the good wishes and blessings that can be squished into them.

      well, going to crash out until it gets a bit lighter and the rain lets up a bit... then back to finishing the task at hand.

      nite...

  •  I bought the pink agate earrings this morning. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    edrie

    I love that the stones are "hand picked" by you...I will keep checking back in your store...Hope your move goes smoothly today...have you ever worked with purple lace agate?

    •  OH! YOU are the one! i LOVE those stones! (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JupiterSurf

      you are going to be so pleased when you see them!

      i've not yet worked with purple lace agate, but i am putting together a blue lace agate necklace.  i'll look for the purple when i go to restock (hopefully, that will be very soon!)

      i put a blue lace/lapis necklace together and really didn't like how it came out - i'm going to be re-doing that one.  agate is so beautiful... i love the fluidity of the stones.

      thank you and i'll have those out on monday... i've got multiple packages to go out (yep, that includes you, lujane  8^)  so  you should have them next week.  i ship priority mail to help out the post office, too.

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