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poll on raising taxes on rich (public approves)

AP-GfK poll, 12/5/2012

HuffPost:

Americans prefer letting tax cuts expire for the country's top earners, as President Barack Obama insists, while support has declined for cutting government services to curb budget deficits, an Associated Press-GfK poll shows. Fewer than half the Republicans polled favor continuing the Bush-era tax cuts for the wealthy.

There's also a reluctance to trim Social Security, Medicare or defense programs, three of the biggest drivers of federal spending, the survey released Wednesday found. The results could strengthen Obama's hand in his fiscal cliff duel with Republicans, in which he wants to raise taxes on the rich and cut spending by less than the GOP wants.

More:
The new poll found that, by 46 percent to 30 percent, more favor cutting government services to raising taxes to tackle budget deficits. That sentiment echoes the view of the GOP, which has emphasized spending cuts during four years of budget battles with Obama.

Yet support for trimming government services has dropped in AP-GfK polls. It was 56 percent last February and 62 percent in March 2011.

And more:
By 48 percent to 40 percent, more oppose proposals to gradually raise the eligibility age for Medicare from 65. Only 3 in 10 support slowing the growth of annual Social Security benefits. And more people oppose than favor cutting military spending.
So, cut taxes and increase services? Unsustainable. Cut Raise taxes only on the wealthy? A political winner, with policy benefits. That alone won't balance the budget, but it is a start.

And that's what's going to happen. Republicans will just lose more, the more they fight. They simply are on the wrong side of public opinion.

WaPo:

A growing chorus of Republicans is urging House leaders to abandon their staunch opposition to higher tax rates for the wealthy with the aim of clearing the way for a broad deal that would also rein in the cost of federal health and retirement programs.

Many GOP centrists and some conservatives are calling on House Speaker John A. Boehner (R-Ohio) to concede on rates now, while he still has some leverage to demand something in return. Republicans are eager to win changes to fast-growing safety-net programs, such as raising the eligibility age for Medicare and applying a less-generous measure of inflation to Social Security benefits.

The Republicans are losing.

Gail Collins on how the Republicans continue to trash their brand more than anything Democrats do to them:

Santorum is still in there swinging. Lately, he’s been on a crusade against a dangerous attempt by the United Nations to help disabled people around the world. This week, he won! The Senate refused to ratify a U.N. treaty on the subject. The vote, which fell five short of the necessary two-thirds majority, came right after 89-year-old Bob Dole, the former Republican leader and disabled war veteran, was wheeled into the chamber to urge passage.

“We did it,” Santorum tweeted in triumph.

Well, it doesn’t get any better than that.

Added: Quinnipiac:
American voters give President Barack Obama a 53 - 40 percent job approval rating - his best score in three years - and by a wider 53 - 36 percent they trust the president and Democrats more than Republicans to avoid the "Fiscal Cliff," according to a Quinnipiac University poll released today...

Voters 65 - 31 percent support higher taxes on households making more than $250,000 per year, with 84 - 14 percent support from Democrats and 66 - 31 percent support from independent voters. Republicans are opposed 53 - 41 percent.

"Nothing like winning an election to boost your job approval. President Barack Obama hasn't had a score this good since his 52 - 40 percent approval rating May 5, 2011, right after the death of Osama bin Laden," said Peter A. Brown, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute.
 

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Comment Preferences

  •  Thanks for the roundup, Greg (10+ / 0-)

    How long can the "Republics" ignore reality?

    "Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

    by Diana in NoVa on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 04:37:03 AM PST

  •  Mixed messages (8+ / 0-)

    John Boehner and the GOP caucus continue to bow to the false idol Grover Norquist and promise more and more tax cuts for the rich, all while saddling the middle class and working people with higher bills and an end to the American Dream. How any of this is supposed to fix the deficit and reduce our national debt is impossible to decipher. but maybe that's the point?  We had an election, and elections have consequences. This is something conservatives in the GOP have yet to grasp since the President won a second term. Republicans remain quagmired in the status quo of the Tea Party and kitchen-sink campaigning.   -  progressive

  •  Santorum is Father of the year (3+ / 0-)

    That got a lot of snark in it. Seriously, what an ass. His daughter Isabella already has enough challenges, she doesn't need a father who is so cruel.

    •  Rush is Husband of the Year (4+ / 0-)

      As he continues to opine that murder/suicide by NFL star is symptomatic of the decline of American society as marked by the loss of respect for the institution of marriage and a failure by the nation to realize its sanctity.

      If only Rush had gotten his NFL team, then none of this would be happening.  It is all the NFL owners' fault

      •  Wait a minute! (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        CoExistNow

        Didn't Rush's 4th wife just file for divorce?
        Of course, in the GOP world, a guy who's been married and divorced 4 times would be a great advertisement for respecting the sanctity of  the "one man, one woman" trope.

        “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

        by skohayes on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 06:02:38 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I think he is a serial polygamist (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          skohayes

          The amazing thing about an aging, balding, fat guy with a drug problem who also is a millionaire is when he thinks he has found true love with a blonde bombshell 20 years his junior and then is crushed when she files for divorce after a few years.

          How many failures does it take to realize for some people it is not all about you but about your Benjamins and Alexanders?

          •  Evidently, quite a few (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            entlord

            Hefner is marrying a 26 year old at the age of 86. This is his third or fourth, I think.
            Blech.
            She left him last year, but came back and agreed to marry him after living a year without his money, LOL.
            Now that's how to save marriage!

            “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

            by skohayes on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 08:52:34 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

  •  Well, Scarborough has the answer (8+ / 0-)

    to this quagmire - he says just f'ing tax the rich and take away the Democrats talking point. And Chuck Todd agrees - if the Republicans just pass the middle class tax cut now & let the breaks for the wealthy expire it would be a leadership failure sitting at President Obama's doorstep. Come February the Republicans can hold the debt ceiling hostage & get cuts in SS & Medicare and all of America will be on their side. Or something.
    Holy twisted logic. Did I say logic?

    I'm pretty tired of being told what I care about.

    by hulibow on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 04:51:12 AM PST

  •  Well if they're not helping the rich, (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bear83, skohayes, Laconic Lib

    what's their purpose in life?

    What do I stand for? What do I stand for?
    Most nights, I don't know anymore...
    Oh whoa, oh whoa, oh whoa oh oh
    Oh whoa, oh whoa, oh whoa oh oh
    FUN.

    We're fools whether we dance or not, so we might as well dance.

    by PowWowPollock on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 04:51:36 AM PST

  •  Santorum 2016! It's his turn for GOP nomination (9+ / 0-)

    Santorum epitomizes the argument of the right wing GOP after now two losses by not-really-conservative nominees McCain and Romney.  Santorum would run as someone who actually BELIEVES in what the GOP platform says, on abortion (no exceptions, not even for rape, incest or to save the life of the mother), taxes, demonization of gays, privatizing Social Security and cutting Medicare, home schooling and taxpayer dollars for religious schools, teaching creationism in science classes, banning all stem cell research, reinstating Don't Ask, Don't Tell, repealing the Voting Rights Act, banning public sector union strikes, repealing Obamacare, deporting all illegal immigrants, bombing Iran, more warrantless wire-tapping by police and national security organs, etc.

    Santorum would offer the cleanest and clearest opportunity for there to be a real public debate and national voter decision on Republican Party policies.

    As a partisan Democrat, I can dream, can't I?

  •  The center of this debate is too far to the right (10+ / 0-)

    Let all the Bush tax cuts expire. That gets us back to the tax rates during the Clinton administration. If the Bush tax cuts were wrong, then they are still wrong. We desperately need more revenue to finance the really important tasks that the Federal Government needs to be doing. The discussion should be about raising the marginal tax rates for the very rich above the rates of the Clinton years, and creating new brackets at the top.

    We need to expand government spending in sustainable technology, infrastructure and social services such as education. If we want to cut spending it should be in the military. If we cut the Pentagon budget by 50% we would still have total military hegemony over the world. The real threats to the US are Global Climate Crisis, competitiveness, and the demise of the middle class, and it's growing reputation as a global bully.

    The Republicans are so far to the right that it has pulled the discussion. The fact that the media is totally blind to Republican lies aids this, that is, the media is also pulled to the right. Republicans ran the biggest deficits and  wasted the most amount of money when they ran the government. Obama has been forced to run large deficits because of the economic crisis left behind by Bush. Now the Republicans want the poor and Senior Citizens to suffer so that the rich can pay less in taxes. Why can't the press call them out on this?

    •  Oxymoron (4+ / 0-)

      "GOP Moderates"

      What a load of bullshit. Jesse Helms could be a "moderate" in today's TeaOP. That's how far they have moved to the right.

      In all their whining over the deficit, what the Republicans never mention is that almost half the annual budget deficit is due to interest on the existing national debt - 75% of it run up under Reagan, Bush 1, and Bush 2. But deficits don't matter when there's a Republican in the White House - just ask Dick Cheney.

      Annual Interest Expense by Year - $5 Trillion since 2000, when Bill Clinton had a budget surplus.

      2012    $359,796,008,919.49
      2011    $454,393,280,417.03
      2010    $413,954,825,362.17
      2009    $383,071,060,815.42
      2008    $451,154,049,950.63
      2007    $429,977,998,108.20
      2006    $405,872,109,315.83
      2005    $352,350,252,507.90
      2004    $321,566,323,971.29
      2003    $318,148,529,151.51
      2002    $332,536,958,599.42
      2001    $359,507,635,242.41
      2000    $361,997,734,302.36
      http://www.treasurydirect.gov/...

      Filibuster reform now. No more Gentleman's agreements.

      by bear83 on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 05:10:12 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  amazing the effect those two wars of W had (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Laconic Lib

        upon our debt service; if W had refrained from 2 purely elective wars, the tax cuts would not have been so catastrophic

        •  I thought one was elective. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          skohayes, bear83, Albanius

          But, yeah......least he could have done was keep track of where all the money was going.

          Pallets full of cash being dropped from airplanes usually indicates sloppy accounting procedures.

          "Michael Moore, who was filming a movie about corporate welfare called 'Capitalism: A Love Story,' sought and received incentives."

          by Bush Bites on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 05:46:32 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I view Afghanistan as elective since the Taliban (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Laconic Lib

            were simply negotiating their price to hand over bin Laden. They were already sick and tired of his brand of Wahabbi fanaticism and his family had cut him off, so his largesse had been severely limited.

            If we had offered the Taliban enough goodies (where is Ollie when you need him?), they would have given us Osama tied up with a bow

          •  Or maybe he could have had a 9/11 gas tax (0+ / 0-)

            of a $1/gallon to pay for the Afghan War from the beginning and not add to the overall debt. Mr 90% approval could have gotten anything he wanted in the fall of 2001.

            Filibuster reform now. No more Gentleman's agreements.

            by bear83 on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 06:43:07 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

  •  The numbers against defense cuts are something. (7+ / 0-)

    Can't say "surprising," I guess, since war is the Great American Pastime.

    But, still......

    "Michael Moore, who was filming a movie about corporate welfare called 'Capitalism: A Love Story,' sought and received incentives."

    by Bush Bites on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 04:54:44 AM PST

    •  Defense spending is a proxy for feeling secure in (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      skohayes, tb mare, DSPS owl

      one's personal life - especially in certain regions of the country.

      Non enim propter gloriam, diuicias aut honores pugnamus set propter libertatem solummodo quam Nemo bonus nisi simul cum vita amittit. -Declaration of Arbroath

      by Robobagpiper on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 05:16:03 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Defense spending is the result of (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        skohayes, tb mare, DSPS owl, Laconic Lib

        the majority of the country's need to be the world's authoritarian with the ability to stride the globe like a colossus, swaggering and threatening, in order to have the physical power necessary to assert control.  This thinking was the basis for Reagan's "Star Wars" fantasy which, by the way, is still being funded.

        Consider the difference in the amount of money this country spends on the State Department - the use of diplomacy - and the DOD - the use of force.

        "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

        by SueDe on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 06:02:28 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  It also doesn't help that many on both sides (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Laconic Lib

          of Congress are heavily invested in the Military Industrial Complex. Stripping funding for the military (though the fiscally responsible thing to do) pays big dividends to many Senators and House members.

        •  Not when you're talking about the rank-and-file (0+ / 0-)

          especially in the South and Greater Appalachia. They see any reduction of military spending as a direct threat to their safety. They tend to apply a schoolyard model to international affairs, and view any reduction of swagger as an invitation to be preyed upon.

          Applying the reasoning of elites to the rank-and-file is going to give you the wrong reading of polls.

          Non enim propter gloriam, diuicias aut honores pugnamus set propter libertatem solummodo quam Nemo bonus nisi simul cum vita amittit. -Declaration of Arbroath

          by Robobagpiper on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 07:04:38 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  A lot of military bases in southern (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      PrahaPartizan

      and midwestern red states. Jobs, in other words.

      “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

      by skohayes on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 06:08:50 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  The growing percentage of "don't know" in the (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Bush Bites, Laconic Lib

    chart at the top indicates that the further out we get from the election and the closer we get to fiscal cliff hysteria ground zero, the more people are being swayed by anti-tax rhetoric floating around out there.

    That's one more thing to add to my long list of small problems. --my son, age 10

    by concernedamerican on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 04:54:47 AM PST

    •  actually the chart above shows that since 2010 (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DSPS owl

      shows anti tax rhetoric dropping considerably.

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 05:02:18 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I believe that, and yet since the election, where (0+ / 0-)

        the presence in the media of the face-off between Romney and Obama on the choice we face about taxes was saturating everyone's airwaves, the starkness of that choice has been diminished for voters.

        That's one more thing to add to my long list of small problems. --my son, age 10

        by concernedamerican on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 03:21:34 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Fiscal Cliff Clavin* (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Bush Bites, maryabein

    Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us

    (*Unfortunately the actor who played Cliff Clavin on Cheers, John Ratzenberger, is one of the biggest wingnuts around.)

  •  I am so sick of this shit. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Fiddlegirl, maryabein, Ohkwai, Albanius
    There's also a reluctance to trim Social Security, Medicare or defense programs, three of the biggest drivers of federal spending
    Social Security and Medicare are completely self-funded. They are not drivers of Federal Spending. Only defense impacts the general budget.

    The best thing the administration could do to take SS and Medicare off the deficit hawks' chopping block is end the bullshit accounting trick of the "unified budget". It's not unified.

    Non enim propter gloriam, diuicias aut honores pugnamus set propter libertatem solummodo quam Nemo bonus nisi simul cum vita amittit. -Declaration of Arbroath

    by Robobagpiper on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 04:56:53 AM PST

    •  medicare is not self funded (6+ / 0-)

      where did you get the idea that it was?

      The Economics of Financing Medicare

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 05:06:43 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I stand corrected. Looks like we need to up (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Egalitare, tb mare

        the FICA withholding for Medicare.

        Non enim propter gloriam, diuicias aut honores pugnamus set propter libertatem solummodo quam Nemo bonus nisi simul cum vita amittit. -Declaration of Arbroath

        by Robobagpiper on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 05:14:41 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  your point is a good one on SS (6+ / 0-)

          raise the cap on taxed income  and we are done.

          "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

          by Greg Dworkin on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 05:18:24 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Actually, let me amend my suggestion (0+ / 0-)

            How much of that "transfer from general funds" is Medicare redeeming its own trust funds?

            Because that's not really a transfer per se, but a liquidation of Medicare's assets to pay for current operations.

            Non enim propter gloriam, diuicias aut honores pugnamus set propter libertatem solummodo quam Nemo bonus nisi simul cum vita amittit. -Declaration of Arbroath

            by Robobagpiper on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 10:21:08 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  as for Medicare... (5+ / 0-)

          best approach is

          1. fully implement ACA
          2. if not enough savings, look at single payer
          3. "expanding and strengthening the Independent Payment Advisory Board (IPAB) to allow it to make recommendations for cost-sharing and benefit design and to look beyond Medicare"

          in other words, be a Very Serious Insurance™ and argue for that part of Simpson-Bowles!

          What Simpson-Bowles has to say about health care spending reform (it's not what you think)

          Bet you didn't see that coming!

          "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

          by Greg Dworkin on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 05:22:07 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  insurance? (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            skohayes, tb mare, Egalitare

            Very Serious Person™ I meant.

            "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

            by Greg Dworkin on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 05:22:45 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  If the president needs to put Medicare (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            skohayes, tb mare, DSPS owl, Laconic Lib

            "reform" on the table for spending cuts, his offer needs to be reforming Part D to allow the program to negotiate drug prices.  Benefits should not be on the table at all.

            "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

            by SueDe on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 06:08:21 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Well, Medicare already seems to take half (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            carrps

            of its revenue from the general fund; seems like at some point you need to acknowledge this and adjust the funding structures accordingly. Even if we hold costs as a function of GDP to today's levels instantly, Medicare should be self-funding.

            As in, take off 1.5 points on everybody's income tax rates and add 1.5 points to their FICA rates, and increase the standard deduction a bit. Total tax bill is a wash, but we're back to a dedicated revenue stream doing what it's supposed to do.

            Non enim propter gloriam, diuicias aut honores pugnamus set propter libertatem solummodo quam Nemo bonus nisi simul cum vita amittit. -Declaration of Arbroath

            by Robobagpiper on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 06:59:16 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  I'd rather see if the ACA drives costs down first. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Greg Dworkin

          And, if we have to add money, I'd rather think about higher deductibles or more rigorous means testing before more withholding.

          Just my opinion, of course.

          "Michael Moore, who was filming a movie about corporate welfare called 'Capitalism: A Love Story,' sought and received incentives."

          by Bush Bites on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 05:23:02 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  No, first we need to address (0+ / 0-)

          health care COSTS. That's what's driving the rising cost of Medicare and Medicaid.
          Stop feeding the beast and expecting it to lose weight.

          “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

          by skohayes on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 06:12:31 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  I contend that both SS and Medicare... (0+ / 0-)

          ...need a dedicated revenue stream from ALL of "unearned" income. Though I'd be satisfied with a realistic share of General Revenue funds.

          The central point is that most of the "Villagers" want to believe that government can run on some (from my perspective) a unrealistic % of GDP. Usually 18-21%. They then perform a masterful job of projection by asserting that allow Government to be any larger puts us on the slippery slope to "unrestrained government growth." Their Financial Elite paymasters assure them there is no other rational conclusion.

          No sane Social Safety Net employee in any department or agency wants to "grow" her/his "market share".  Many that I knew and know used to daydream about "working themselves out of a job" when Clinton actual started running budget surpluses.

          "Playing and winning Monopoly" is NOT everyone's desire.

          When you are right you cannot be too radical; when you are wrong, you cannot be too conservative. --Martin Luther King Jr.

          by Egalitare on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 06:42:25 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  SS should never become state-supported (0+ / 0-)

            income insurance on income earned through gambling on the stock market. That's what applying FICA to unearned income does.

            Non enim propter gloriam, diuicias aut honores pugnamus set propter libertatem solummodo quam Nemo bonus nisi simul cum vita amittit. -Declaration of Arbroath

            by Robobagpiper on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 07:00:41 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  one thing we could do would be to remove the (0+ / 0-)

        cap on FICA contributions.  The other would be to kill the MC+ programs as a couple of modest beginnings  

  •  Are you angry, ignorant, afraid of change? (6+ / 0-)

    Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us

  •  WTF? (4+ / 0-)
    And more people oppose than favor cutting military spending.
    What's good for Rockwell, General Dynamics, GE, Lockheed, Boeing, Blackwater/XE/Academi, etc. is good for America.

    White-collar conservatives flashing down the street, pointing their plastic finger at me..

    by BOHICA on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 04:57:15 AM PST

  •  Number of idiots in America on the decline! (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    singe, hulibow, skohayes, Laconic Lib

    Looking at other polls (Politico) 85% think the no-taxes pledge is  a bad idea.

    10% think its a good idea.

    2% earn 250,000 or more, so their taxes would rise

    So.... only 8% are brain dead!

    •  thanks (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      hulibow, wintergreen8694, skohayes

      Qpoll out today and will add!

      American voters give President Barack Obama a 53 - 40 percent job approval rating - his best score in three years - and by a wider 53 - 36 percent they trust the president and Democrats more than Republicans to avoid the "Fiscal Cliff," according to a Quinnipiac University poll released today.
      http://www.quinnipiac.edu/...

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 05:11:15 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  In comparison, in Egypt 85% (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      maryabein, Laconic Lib

      voted for Muslim brotherhood or Salafi parties that are now restricting their right to breathe and a majority that voted for a Muslim Brotherhood candidate for president that is now a dictator... And don't even start me on Europe: a majority of 500 million people that voted for huge budget cuts that help continue OUR recession. Or Israel, where a majority elected  bullies (Liberman and Netanyahu) that increased the poor to rich ratio while messing up the chances for peace negotiations.

      Makes you proud to be an American!

    •  but Joe the Plumber is afraid he will earn $250K (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      skohayes, Laconic Lib

      and he is just a plumber's helper.  (he did lose his bid for public office so guess he is back on the RW talk circuit again)

  •  Somehow this movie scene comes to mind: (3+ / 0-)
    Spock: If I may be so bold, it was a mistake for you to accept promotion. Commanding a starship is your first, best destiny; anything else is a waste of material.

    Kirk: I would not presume to debate you.

    Spock: That is wise. Were I to invoke logic, however, logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

    Kirk: Or the one.

    Spock: You are my superior officer. You are also my friend. I have been and always shall be yours.

    (from the IMDb website. Emphasis is mine)

    Yeah, it's only a line from a movie, but in this case it seems to work very well indeed.

    The more we are, the less we need.

    by Fiddlegirl on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 05:07:01 AM PST

    •  This movie was just on (0+ / 0-)

      the Scy Fy channel the other night. Always will be one of my favorites.

      “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

      by skohayes on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 06:14:43 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Did you mis-phrase this? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skohayes, DSPS owl, Laconic Lib
    Cut taxes only on the wealthy? A political winner, with policy benefits.
    You mean increase taxes only on the wealthy, right?

    "Michael Moore, who was filming a movie about corporate welfare called 'Capitalism: A Love Story,' sought and received incentives."

    by Bush Bites on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 05:10:30 AM PST

  •  Erick: they're not rinos...they're sell outs..... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skohayes, Laconic Lib
  •  If Republicans in Congress think federal (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Magenta, SueDe, coppercelt, skohayes, DSPS owl

    retirement programs are too high...

    A growing chorus of Republicans is urging House leaders to abandon their staunch opposition to higher tax rates for the wealthy with the aim of clearing the way for a broad deal that would also rein in the cost of federal health and retirement programs.
    they should start with cutting their own.

    But the fact remains that the way to increase revenue and reduce the cost of poverty in this country is to produce jobs.

    “Social Security has nothing to do with balancing a budget or erasing or lowering the deficit.” -- Ronald Reagan, 1984 debate with Walter Mondale

    by RJDixon74135 on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 05:14:07 AM PST

  •  Obama 48% approval in South Carolina.....Haley (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skohayes, tb mare, Laconic Lib

    not so much....

    http://www.wltx.com/...

  •  I would like to know when they changed the (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Magenta, skohayes, Laconic Lib

    wording on that poll (as indicated in the footnoote **) to make clear the tax cut expiration would be on incomes over $250k rather than on people making over $250k.

    That distinction, which until recently most ignored, including Obama, is critical since it the reality is that everyone gets a tax cut on the their first $250k in income (for couples, $200k for individuals).  People would be less sympathetic towards the wealthy getting a continued tax cut - and more inclined to push for eliminating it - if they actually understood that the wealthy in fact do get one on incomes below $250k.

    The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell

    by accumbens on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 05:16:30 AM PST

    •  No one is getting a tax cut. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      skohayes

      Letting Bush's folly expire means everyone's taxes on the first $250K of income will stay the same as it is now.

      "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

      by SueDe on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 06:15:28 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  GB is latest country to discover austerity doesn't (4+ / 0-)

    work.  Cameron has thrown in the towel on trying to extract blood from turnips and instead is looking at a range of "revenue enhancements" such as a "mansion tax".
    Wonder how John "I lost count of how many homes I own" McCain would react to that or Mitt to a tax on elevators for autos?

    Guess it goes to show Cameron is just a dirty commie mole.  (local wingers have no clue as to who he is)

  •  Wow we're well into Decemeber & still I smile! n/t (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skohayes, tb mare
  •  Learned something on Mor Joe. (4+ / 0-)

    First time ever. Finally.
    The real battle will be the debt ceiling. Start hammering now, Dems.
    AARP, Dems, all affected people should ramp up the noise on Medicaid. The Rebubs think it's only for homeless winos. They assume there's little public empathy.
    In fact many parents of working and middle class persons who are in nursing homes depend on medicaid.
    Etc.
    Red state, blue state. This is a good spear-point to focus on and go after gop "austerity" in general.

    At any rate, Dems should be looking down the road a few mos.

    Medicare should have a flexible retirement schedule. (Until we have medicare for all.) It should be lowered to 55-60 for some in physical jobs, to make room for new  hires, and if someone wants to work past 65, fine. That would actually stimulate new employment.

    You can't make this stuff up.

    by David54 on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 05:23:16 AM PST

    •  Obama is already engaging that battle (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      skohayes, tb mare, David54

      when the proposal was delivered by Gaithner, McConnell "burst into laughter" but it was over the debt ceiling proposal.

      Meanwhile Obama states' I'm not playing that game'.

      Just a scouting skirmish, but more to come...

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 05:27:35 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  small note on SNF MCD (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      One Opinion

      it is no longer possible to shelter assets from recoupment by MCD as it once was.  As it is now, residents are allowed to keep family home (if there is a minor child or spouse present; upon death of qualifying relative, it may be up for recoupment), a car worth $3000, $900 in savings and a 50 acre farm. (this is from memory before I have to defend my figures; it also varies from state to state)
      Bottom line is the nonresident spouse has to spend himself/herself into penury in order to support a spouse in a SNF (which runs $5K-$10K monthly)

  •  Poll: Higher taxes for the wealthy? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skohayes, DSPS owl, Laconic Lib
    Voters 65 - 31 percent support higher taxes on households making more than $250,000 per year,
    Shouldn't that number be 98-2?

    When someone tells you they are lying, you should believe them.

    by shoeless on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 06:10:43 AM PST

  •  Frigging Amazing... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Laconic Lib

    Just amazing... simply nutso...

    We have Boehner defending the rich from Clinton era tax rates. While the decision is pretty much a done deal in the public and business areas saying "Just do it already, Boehner!". And now Boehner thinks he can go for the debt limit option. Hasn't this Bonehead learned anything from the last time they pulled that crap? Sheesh!

    Maybe he needs Biff from Back to the Future to give him a noogie, "Hello? Hello? Anybody home? Huh? Think, McFly. Think!"

    "I think it's the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately." -- George Carlin, Satirical Comic,(1937-2008)

    by Wynter on Thu Dec 06, 2012 at 06:26:27 AM PST

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