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latest 2012 election talley

Maintained by: David Wasserman @Redistrict

Bob Cesca on failure of the GOP base to adjust to losing:

In the wake of the election, there's no doubt the Republican Party is capable of making some adjustments to rebrand itself. If nothing else, the party has demonstrated its proclivity for sloganeering and marketing and there are plenty of ways it can adjust its messaging. But it's obvious to anyone paying attention that the base simply won't allow the party to change in any meaningful way.
Robert Shrum on the failure of the GOP House on fiscal cliff negotiations:
The fiscal cliff fight can play out in different ways—but in any scenario, the Bush tax rates for the rich are gone. Obama may make some concessions to the GOP, but he’ll end up victorious, just as he did in November, says Robert Shrum.
Joe Conason on failure of the GOP to own up to failed policy:
If President Obama honestly wants to negotiate an agreement with Republicans before the year-end fiscal deadline, he must be deeply frustrated. And if he doesn't really want to negotiate with them, then he should be delighted, for the same reason: Their latest "offer" laid before him by House Speaker John Boehner demonstrates again their refusal to reveal their true intentions — and their inability to do simple arithmetic.
Jonathan Alter on Senate Republican's sanity failure:
Cruelty, fear, cowardice, xenophobia and disrespect invaded the inner sanctum of the U.S. government this week, bringing embarrassment and dishonor to what was once the greatest deliberative body in the world: the U.S. Senate.

On Dec. 4, former Senate Majority Leader Bob Dole, an 89- year-old Republican whose right arm was shattered in combat during World War II, was wheeled into the Senate chamber by his wife to rally support for a United Nations treaty that should have been entirely unobjectionable.

Reid Wilson on the Republican campaign failure:
In the wake of unexpected losses last month, Republicans are going through the classic stages of grief. Some are denying that conservatism was their downfall. Most are depressed at the prospect of another four years of an Obama administration. A few, including some pollsters who missed the mark badly, are bargaining to keep their jobs. All are angry — at the results, at the fact that they didn't see it coming, and at the position in which the party now finds itself: badly trailing Democrats when it comes to the technological and political savvy required to run and win campaigns.

Many Republicans say that there is a skills gap between the two parties, based on neglect within their own ranks and advances on the Democratic side. Acceptance, and adapting to overcome the deficit, will be critical to rebuilding the Grand Old Party.

Mark Thoma on failure of supply-side economics:
Why the GOP Won't Admit Supply-Side Econ Has Failed

The failure of Republicans to deliver on their promise that tax cuts would be mostly self-financing is a large factor in the deterioration in our long-run fiscal outlook, and it is putting considerable pressure on programs such as Social Security. In fact, the Bush tax cuts can be thought of as a loan from the Social Security Trust Fund that was supposed to be paid back with the revenues from higher economic growth, a loan that is presently in default.

Greg Dworkin on failure of Citizen's United decision:
America remains a Golden Rule country. Those that have the gold make the rules. Thanks to the Supreme Court’s meddling and bungling of the Citizen’s United decision, the only way to lower money spent on campaigns now is to lose a string of expensive ones. Small donors will be motivated to give when big donors threaten to buy the election, so less campaign money by big donors likely means less campaign giving by everyone.

The money spent on this campaign will perhaps teach a few oh-so-smart billionaires that their strategy was terrible and their return-on-investment was poor. It certainly made no one feel sorry for them, which actually helps Obama pass his tax proposals for those on the high end scale. It also helps Democrats run on the inequality issue (see definition of Golden Rule). Of course, the big money boys and girls remain unaccountable for their poor business/political decisions and will simply forward the costs to everyone else. After wasting everyone’s money, for example, Karl Rove will just get another job doing it again.

I suggest all that Masters of the Universe money would be better spent studying up on Henry Ford, who raised his workers’ wages so they could buy his cars. If they learned that lesson, it’d be a win-win for America.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Charles M. Blow has an interesting column (11+ / 0-)

    which you can read here  (the link is unfettered access).  I explore it in a piece I call I am going to disagree slightly with Charles M. Blow to which I invite your attention.

    "We didn't set out to save the world; we set out to wonder how other people are doing and to reflect on how our actions affect other people's hearts." - Pema Chodron

    by teacherken on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 04:33:34 AM PST

  •  Good Morning (11+ / 0-)

    23 days of more BS from the goppers

  •  Let us hope we'll remember all these GOP failings (14+ / 0-)

    come 2014; and blow them away at the polls next time.

  •  "their inability to do simple arithmetic" (6+ / 0-)

    Ay-Rith-Meh-Tick

    The 1st Amendment gives you the right to say stupid things, the 1st Amendment doesn't guarantee a paycheck to say stupid things.

    by JML9999 on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 04:39:40 AM PST

  •  Ann Coulter Voice of reason?!?!?? (5+ / 0-)


     
     
     

    The 1st Amendment gives you the right to say stupid things, the 1st Amendment doesn't guarantee a paycheck to say stupid things.

    by JML9999 on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 04:45:26 AM PST

  •  Supply-Side Econ failed because (20+ / 0-)

    the whole theory is complete and utter bullshit. Somewhat plausible on the surface, it's actually nothing but naked selfishness.

    Don't let millionaires steal Social Security.
    I said, "Don't let millionaires steal Social Security!"

    by Leo in NJ on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 04:45:32 AM PST

    •  Why we can't hack this out of the public (12+ / 0-)

      dialogue is a mystery to me.  Supply side econ has been thoroughly discredited for a long time.  

      •  msm is part and parcel (7+ / 0-)

        of this problem.

      •  Why can't we "hack out" the idea consuming sugar (4+ / 0-)

        and salt in excess, as in products overly loaded with those otherwise good items, is not really healthy?

        That wearing brand x clothing will make you socially acceptable despite almost all else?

        That wearing scent y will make you attractive, regardless of reality, to the opposite sex?

        Sound bite, door hanger, talk radio politics uses the techniques used to convince millions that a product is unilaterally "good" or that use will overcome all other factors to make one more successful.

        To combat the Democratic dominance and popularity of New Deal policies the plutocrats that had fought FDR started putting money into "think tanks" and commercial advertising "message" techniques to convince Americans that instead of buying another yacht or another house tax money diverted to the "makers" would "trickle down" despite a few thousand years of evidence to the contrary.

        Yep, ole Baron de Cluless made sure his serfs got a goodly share of the booty. Those old mining barons in Britain and the U.S. sure passed the wealth down. Yeah, bring back the good ole days when government stayed small and out of our business and we will again let something (warm and yellow perhaps?) trickle down onto the takers.

        The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. [Elbert Hubbard]

        by pelagicray on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 06:14:13 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  The Frank Luntz method (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          pelagicray, Heart of the Rockies

          Our messaging is not so bad, but it needs to be distilled better, I guess.  If it doesn't fit in a headline or on a bumper sticker, the public can't digest it.  Political fast food.  I'm not sure how healthy it is, but people seem to be eating it.

          Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.

          by winsock on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 06:21:15 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Campaign "fast food" is not really the key to what (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            winsock, singe, arlene, wintergreen8694

            happened. It takes some history interest. A breed of plutocrats fought FDR tooth and nail and lost. They lost a couple of generations. They knew they had to shoot for long term change and began "investing" in think tanks and developing a long term message.

            In the meantime those that endured and learned in the Great Depression, New Deal and WW II failed. They, and particularly their children, failed. They failed to pass along a gut level understanding of what they'd learned. They preferred to "not talk about" lots of things. Their children were too often insulated from their life experience and not infrequently pampered so they would not suffer the same sort of experiences. I'm old enough to have seen that.

            A result of the long term foresight and work of those antithetical to the New Deal and failure of those that suffered and benefited began to be felt, needing only one big push to begin real ascendency.

            That came when the Party of Lincoln was overtaken by the Democrats, in the South the virulent anti-Union party of reconstruction, in mattes of racial civil rights. I remember old codgers that had railed at that damn Yankee Catholic Kennedy while also saying they had to vote Democrat "because I ain't never voting for that N... loving Republican Party" going Republican before they croaked.

            A generation of pretty well off young people, some turned off by "Democratic wars" as well allied with traditional Republicans in the north and Dixiecrats come to be Republicans in the South and wallah! You had savior St. Ronnie and a long stream of trickle down and other nonsense with an increasing twist of Southern/rural racial and religious social issues for bite.

            Democrats took a beating in my lifetime because they and we failed in the long term messaging. The result? People had to learn again that what trickles down from self described "makers" is often warm and yellow liquid. It is up to we, the ultimate government, to regulate what trickles down and up and how.

            The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. [Elbert Hubbard]

            by pelagicray on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 06:47:04 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  In historical context (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              pelagicray

              this perspective explains a lot, yes.  And for better or worse, these long-term political imprints do cut both ways, sometimes in our favor.  But it is difficult -- if not impossible -- to unwind history in the context of a single election cycle.  And this is why parties often resort to the short-term, fast-food fix.  In any event, apart from investing in more and better think tanks, what would you have us do?

              Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.

              by winsock on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 07:16:48 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  First, over the long term talk to our kids. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                wintergreen8694

                Not in a one time "birds and bees" political chat, but over the long term in just noting and commenting on things before their eyes. I don't think I ever had a "political" chat with my now adult ones and we differ on a number of things, yet they are solidly and even sometimes more progressive than I. It was more of the sort of upon seeing a sewer outfall and dead fish I'd comment on "regulation" rather than hurry them away to more pleasant views.

                As a movement I think we have to better organize to get that message out long term in media and public forums. Instead of campaign time ads some need to run at low and general level.

                Way back the right began to realize they'd have to "infiltrate" education, media, religious denominations and other idea forming venues or the New Deal was going to be permanent and growing. They had big money, often in the extractive sector, with a hard desire to pull government's regulatory teeth. They took a long view and as we have seen were rather successful in putting the blinders on much of society.

                As an interesting aside, look at the long term and quite effective efforts of certain very wealthy right wing types to take over religious denominations. The Southern Baptist Convention is a good example of how a near rabidly creedless and freedom of congregation and individual denomination became near lock step TP/GOP leaning with a fundamentalist reed. That effort tracks back into the 1940s and culminated with a convention in Texas in which the liberal wing saw dirty tricks and strong arm tactics used against them.

                You remember that "vast right wing conspiracy"? That is by no means just empty talk. Certain big money, some traceable to those fighting tooth and nail against FDR, got working to change society since society was not with them in elections. Our side must be organized and take a long view as well.

                The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. [Elbert Hubbard]

                by pelagicray on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 09:58:25 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

            •   history is important.particulary for workers. n/t (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              pelagicray
      •  It's Not Our Dialogue. The Public Square is Almost (3+ / 0-)

        entirely private property, and its owners get to decide what the issues and information are.

        We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

        by Gooserock on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 06:17:51 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Supply-side economics has never been (3+ / 0-)

      the least bit plausible.  It's been propagandized to the extent - and continues to be - that its failure in the face of reality is easily ignored...for a while.  It's finally dawning on regular folks (voters) that whatever its intentions, the reality of it is to make the rich richer and the poor poorer.  That reality will eventually completely overcome the propaganda, as people consider the possibility of giving up part of the family income and expecting that the money in  their bank account will grow as a result.

      "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

      by SueDe on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 06:19:58 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Actually, it's feudalism (0+ / 0-)

        Hope out of the goodness of your heart that the rich guys will give you something. It's as much of a fail for the vast majority as it was 800 years ago

  •  President Obama has done another (8+ / 0-)

    end run around a recalcitrant congress.  According to Think Progress the Department of Veterans Affairs

    ... will propose new rules and regulations aimed at expanding health care benefits for current and former service members suffering from a traumatic brain injury.

    The new regulations will include certain forms of “Parkinsonism, unprovoked seizures, certain dementias, depression, and hormone deficiency diseases related to the hypothalamus, pituitary or adrenal glands” as medical conditions eligible for benefits to any veteran with a brain injury — without burdening veterans to prove that their condition is directly caused by military service:

    The original story from the New York Times is here.
    Since 2000, more than 250,000 service members — some still on active duty — have received diagnoses of traumatic brain injury, or T.B.I., according to the Defense Department. Though T.B.I. is commonly viewed as resulting from blast exposure, the vast majority of those injuries were diagnosed in nondeployed troops who were involved in vehicle crashes, training accidents or sports injuries.

    The Department of Veterans Affairs says that a much smaller number of veterans — about 51,000 — are currently receiving benefits for service-connected traumatic brain injuries. However the department acknowledges that thousands more troops with T.B.I. may be eligible for the expanded benefits.

    Veterans of previous wars will also be eligible for the extended benefits if they can prove that their disability is the result of their prior service.

    "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

    by SueDe on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 05:01:37 AM PST

  •  I see Mallard Fillmore (8+ / 0-)

    is pushing the idea that Rs lost because Romney was too moderate. Every time I see that meme, I can't help but smile and think how great 2016 will be.

    I STILL want to see Mitt's taxes.

    by Van Buren on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 05:17:25 AM PST

  •  We can laugh at 'em now, but... (0+ / 0-)

    Defending bad taste and liberalism since 2005.

    by jurassicpork on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 05:26:08 AM PST

    •  It's all up to the Dems (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      apimomfan2, maryabein

        The Dems CAN make the GOP an irrelevant anachronism if they stand up to the pugs' fiscal-cliff blackmail and just let the tax rates expire.

        But we're already seeing signs of the pre-emptive capitulating that so characterized this administration in 2009-2010. So I wouldn't be too optimistic.

         

      "Le ciel est bleu, l'enfer est rouge."

      by Buzzer on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 05:34:08 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  The Party Apparatus NEEDS the GOP as cover for its (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        maryabein, glitterscale

        corporatist, rightward inclinations. Otherwise, who could they blame for all the sh!tty legislation they want to pass???

      •  "We" are not seeing that. (0+ / 0-)

        I have yet to see Obama talk about a deal where the eligibility age for Medicare would be raised when he can do nothing and let all the tax cuts expire, and then have the next Senate pass a bill reinstating all the cuts except for the top two percent.
        Let Boehner swing on having his members vote against a tax cut for 98% of Americans.

        “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

        by skohayes on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 05:51:25 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  You're mixing apples and oranges. (0+ / 0-)

          The tax rates are a completely different subject than the eligibility age for Medicare.  Expiration of the Bush tax cuts will have no effect on what's decided regarding Medicare cost-cutting.

          "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

          by SueDe on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 06:23:57 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Many of thes billiionaires think of employees as (4+ / 0-)

    expenses which are to be replaced with cheaper employees elsewhere or preferably with machines. Much preferred are the billionaires who look on emplyees as invesments to be nurtured till their full potential can be realized. Even those who see their employees as investments as Henry Ford did, often fail to see their employees as potential customers and promoters, and so are only as generous as they must be. They see the profits as a zero sum game in which if their employees then they lose.
         The best oligarch is none.

    Slow thinkers - keep right

    by Dave the Wave on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 05:26:49 AM PST

  •  Greg, it's interesting that you made that (14+ / 0-)

    Henry Ford comment in the last graph of your blockquote.

    Because, even more recently, George Romney did virtually the same thing, and with virtually the same success. As he took over failing American Motors, he first cut both worker and executive pay - imagine that, cutting executive pay when your company isn't profitable - but then transformed his product line from expensive gas-guzzlers to practical, efficient, low-cost vehicles. Then, he - possibly for the first time in the auto industry - expanded the company's profit-sharing plan to include assembly-line workers as well as executives.

    The company quickly became profitable, workers began to share in those profits, and presumably those workers bought a lot of Rambler Americans.

    Everybody knows how well today's Republicans - George's idiot spawn among them - have followed that successful business model.

    "Bernie Madoff's mistake was stealing from the rich. If he'd stolen from the poor he'd have a cabinet position." -OPOL

    by blue in NC on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 05:27:48 AM PST

    •  George Had to Face 70% Marginal Income Tax Rate, (4+ / 0-)

      higher cap gains taxes, and tariffs forcing him to depend on his his labor pool to also be his consumers.

      The American century was built on arithmetic not rocket science.

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 06:20:58 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  An excellent point! (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        wintergreen8694

        Would that CEOs and other corporate types were in that same tax position today. The economy would be booming, the middle class would have a fighting chance, and those CEOs would still be very, very comfortable.

        "Bernie Madoff's mistake was stealing from the rich. If he'd stolen from the poor he'd have a cabinet position." -OPOL

        by blue in NC on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 07:43:19 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  One of my classmates went to work for AMC (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      blue in NC

      right out of high school.  He was still there when they quit making the Rambler 30 years later.  He retired with a full pension at age 48.  

      Don't look back, something may be gaining on you. - L. "Satchel" Paige

      by arlene on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 09:14:04 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Pension? Pension? What is that? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        arlene

        Seriously, the fact that so many Americans - not only rightwingers, but plenty of "independents" and "moderates" too - somehow believe that it is perfectly acceptable for CEOs to "retire" with $100 million+ pensions, but regular workers have no business expecting any sort of retirement income from their company.

        "They should learn to save for their own retirement".

        Talk about the "Stockholm Syndrome"!

        "Bernie Madoff's mistake was stealing from the rich. If he'd stolen from the poor he'd have a cabinet position." -OPOL

        by blue in NC on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 10:28:52 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Like the point you made, Greg (3+ / 0-)

    Old Henry Ford, whatever his other faults may have been, at least was capable of doing simple math. Thanks for the roundup!

    "Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

    by Diana in NoVa on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 05:29:29 AM PST

  •  Chris Hayes on energy....'Take a look at the (4+ / 0-)

    politics of Texas and West Virginia.'.....more like Saudi Arabia than we'd care to admit.....ruled by a feckless extractive class.

    •  He needs to go out to the (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      skillet, Larsstephens

      Texas panhandle and see all the wind farms. Texas gets 7% of it's energy needs from wind these days.

      Wind power in Texas consists of many wind farms with a total installed nameplate capacity of 10,377 MW[1] from over 40 different projects. Texas produces the most wind power of any U.S. state, followed by Iowa with 4,322 MW.[1] The wind boom in Texas was assisted by expansion of the state’s Renewable Portfolio Standard, use of designated Competitive Renewable Energy Zones, expedited transmission construction, and the necessary Public Utility Commission rule-making.[2]
      Wind power accounted for 6.9% of the electricity generated in Texas during 2011.[3]
      http://en.wikipedia.org/...

      “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

      by skohayes on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 05:57:07 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Notice that the worst of the "makers" for a very (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      aarrgghh, wintergreen8694

      long time has been found in that "extractive class" that often has also made its billions on extractions with public assistance from public lands.

      The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. [Elbert Hubbard]

      by pelagicray on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 06:17:24 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Time to come clean. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skillet, skohayes, singe, wintergreen8694

    ACORN stole BOTH elections for Obama, the birth certificate is fake, you have a Kenyan socialist Muslim President for the next four years, he's sending the UN for your guns, and mandatory gay marriage and drive through abortions are next, right after we finish distributing the free iPhones to poor people of color. All part of the master plan for the socialist utopia. Yep. You got us. And there is NOTHING YOU'LL DO ABOUT IT!
    NOTHING!
    AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
    SECEDE, BITCHES!

    "That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the State ..."- Vermont Constitution Chapter 1, Article 16

    by kestrel9000 on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 05:51:47 AM PST

  •  Greg, how do you misread your own opinion? (0+ / 0-)

    Seriously --
    You were absolutely correct about all the money thrown down the toilet in the last election.  Never has so much been spent for so little that wasn't named Edsel or New Coke.

    Far from a failure of the Citizens United decision, the election proved -- beyond and reasonable and aganda-free thinking person's doubt -- that the Supreme Court got it right and all you Democrats -- driven by fear, not principle -- got it wrong.

    If you are going to restrict free speech, you should be very sure that you are doing it for a damned good reason and damned sure that you are addressing a real and urgent problem.

    I'll agree that the dollar barrage was unseemly, but you guys spend too much time listening to each other complain about stupid low-information voters  and not enough time taking reality checks.  When all the dust had settled, those stupid voters proved to be smarter than the pundits, and the Supreme Court smarter still.

    LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

    by dinotrac on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 05:55:33 AM PST

    •  mixing apples and oranges (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      skohayes, askew, Larsstephens

      I know I set you straight on this, but let me do it again.

      Citizen's United sucked and opened the door to big money. yes, we played it better, smarter and more efficiently than they did. So what? The election outcome proves democracy works,   but doesn't prove CU right or make it a good decision.

      But the outcome to ponder? According to MSNBC, the entire ad budgets for bush-gore in 2000 in the fall was less than $140 million. McCain spent 92 million in the general election.

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 06:05:14 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  You are blinded by your agenda, unwilling to (0+ / 0-)

        accept inconvenient principles such as freedom of political speech.

        Democrats love to ignore the actual fact scenario behind Citizens United because it argues powerfully for the correctness of the decision.

        It was not some massive multi-national company pouring it's profits into campaign activities.  It was a not-for-profit corporation showing a movie.  It was the kind of thing  I might do with my neighbors -- and, oh! Yes -- the vast majority of  all corporations are tiny little things formed to let individuals enter into ventures without exposing their families to ruin.

        Citizens United did allow a lot of money into the game -- to no good effect --  but it also freed up labor unions and small citizens' groups to participate in the process without fear.

        Democrats tend to hate free speech, preferring indoctrination to learning, but that pesky Constitution thingy disagrees.   Freedom of Speech (and religion) was the very first amendment added for protection of individual freedoms.  It matters.  It's important.  It should never be abridged for the sake of fear, political advantage, or, in this case, untidy appearances.

        LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

        by dinotrac on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 06:19:39 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  it isn't free speech to buy an election (7+ / 0-)

          the dissenters on the court got it right. JP Stevens in dissent wrote:

          "A democracy cannot function effectively when its constituent members believe laws are being bought and sold."
          You have the blinders on, buddy, if you think the election outcome proved your point.

          I agree with Stevens. Having Sheldon Adleson as a household word is not good for democracy, and it wasn't good for the GOP to have Gingrich propped up by that kind of cash.

          "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

          by Greg Dworkin on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 06:29:31 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  No it isn't. (0+ / 0-)

            But it isn't democracy to distrust the voters, either.
            If you truly believe that individuals cannot be trusted with the vote, you need an authoritarian form of government.

            The decision was about speech activities, not buying elections.

            LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

            by dinotrac on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 06:36:42 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  the dissenters have it right (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              skohayes, a2nite, askew, Larsstephens

              it certainly was about buying an election, but it failed.

              "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

              by Greg Dworkin on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 06:55:24 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Your imperious distrust of we poor masses (0+ / 0-)

                is unbecoming.

                That a few Supreme Court justices (not exactly known, by the way, for their own lack of arrogance) share that distrust does not make you right.

                LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

                by dinotrac on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 07:38:31 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  I'm right (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Larsstephens

                  you're wrong.

                  What's for lunch?

                  "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

                  by Greg Dworkin on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 07:50:01 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Heh. (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Greg Dworkin

                    At least you finally get to an important issue.

                    In my case, I'm pretty sure it's leftover chicken.

                    LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

                    by dinotrac on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 07:53:19 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Mmmm.... chicken (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      dinotrac, Larsstephens

                      I am all for finding common ground.

                      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

                      by Greg Dworkin on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 07:59:16 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  speaking of me being right... (0+ / 0-)
                      Boston blames super PACs for the long nominating that damaged Romney.

                      “Traditionally you win a primary and somebody drops out because resources just stall,” said Gage. “When we came out of our short-lived win in Iowa, you would have typically seen several candidates drop out at that point, but all of these candidates had one or two big, big donors that could keep them alive a while longer. And that’s what created this long slog effect.”

                      Gage said Romney’s inner circle thought frequently about how to persuade mega-donors like Sheldon Adelson and Foster Friess to stop financing the conservatives like Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum, who both forced Romney to the right.
                      The Romney campaign wound up spending $87 million to win the GOP primaries.

                      Read more: http://www.politico.com/...

                      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

                      by Greg Dworkin on Sun Dec 09, 2012 at 05:38:30 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                  •  and it's us huddled masses, isn't it? (0+ / 0-)

                    Damned grammar.

                    LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

                    by dinotrac on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 07:55:54 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

        •  "Democrats tend to hate free speech" (6+ / 0-)

          bullshit. ;-)

          "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

          by Greg Dworkin on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 06:30:14 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Hah. (0+ / 0-)

            The words denier, racist, homophobe, extremist come to mind.

            LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

            by dinotrac on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 06:37:49 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  current description of the GOP (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Larsstephens

              otherwise what's yer point?

              "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

              by Greg Dworkin on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 06:56:09 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  That was my point. (0+ / 0-)

                LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

                by dinotrac on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 07:36:49 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  that correlates with Dems hating free speech (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Larsstephens

                  how?

                  "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

                  by Greg Dworkin on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 07:47:20 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  The descriptions, Greg. (0+ / 0-)

                    I thought you progressive types were supposed to be much more versed in nuance and subtlety than we poor Cro-Magnon conservatives.

                    To spell it out clearly:

                    Those are current descriptions of the GOP and its followers -- used by Democrats and their followers in order to prevent anything like communication and learning.

                    After all, how do you engage a racist or a homophobe in rational discussion?
                    Why bother trying to convince a denier?

                    Simple enough to understand now?

                    LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

                    by dinotrac on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 07:52:25 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  heh (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      wintergreen8694, Larsstephens

                      that's pretty funny.

                      Voter suppression efforts by the GOP to get minority voters not to vote wasn't racist?

                      Climate deniers aren't deniers?

                      Todd Akin and Christine O'Donnell and Sharron Angle and Alan West and Joe Walsh weren't extremists? They all lost because they were.

                      Good luck with that. Even Jeb, Jindal and Rubio know better and are trying to reposition the GOP brand (in his own way, so is Paul Ryan).

                      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

                      by Greg Dworkin on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 07:58:15 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Last I looked: (0+ / 0-)

                        Todd Akin, Christine O'Donnell, Sharron Angle and Alan West are four people.

                        Climate deniers are indeed climate deniers -- by definition.
                        Problem is, you make the definition in order to avoid the conversation.  

                        As to voter suppression efforts, that's another Democratic term, one that I don't think was applied to efforts to keep military votes out of the 2000 counts.

                        LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

                        by dinotrac on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 08:04:12 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Because there was no effort to keep military (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          Larsstephens

                          votes out of the count. Where did you get the idea there was?

                          "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

                          by Greg Dworkin on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 11:05:40 AM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  One of these days you will spin that dino (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Greg Dworkin

                            around  so fast that his head and tail
                            will collide in an exponential singularity.

                            Much like your facts and his fantasies
                            already do each time they appear in the comments.

                            If democrats actually feared learning and freedom
                            of speech, this one would have been bonymojoed
                            by the almighty ban-hammer about five years ago.

                            I admit your laser taunting of this lulzcat is entertaining.
                            As are your selections. Still my number one stop here.

                            Thanks for all of your efforts.

                          •  I like dino (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Larsstephens

                            and in the end he didn't vote for romney.

                            "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

                            by Greg Dworkin on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 01:00:58 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

    •  this election? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      skohayes, zizi, Larsstephens

      968 million on ads, 2 billion overall.

      The smart money was spent by Obama on field work, door to door, GOTV and his brilliant software list building. That has nothing to do with Citizen United.

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 06:08:01 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Do you not agree (0+ / 0-)

      that in the republican primary fight, the money of people like Foster Freiss and Sheldon Adelson kept unelectable candidates in the primary much longer than necessary, and in the process ruined Romney's chances of getting elected, because of positions he took during the primaries?

      “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

      by skohayes on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 06:12:16 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Romney ruined Romney's chances of getting (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        a2nite

        elected.

        I cowardly refused to predict this last election due to my miserable record since 2010, but... I have consistently stated that Romney was a gift to Democrats no less than John Kerry was a gift to Republicans in 2004.  It is hard for me to imagine a non-cannibal candidate less in tune with the times that Mitt Romney.

        I am impressed that you've already forgotten the 2008 election, with the bitter down-to-the-wire primary fight on the Democratic side.

        If anything, the other candidates gave Romney an opportunity to win the election by tuning up a message that distinguished him from the assorted dwarves on the other side, all of whom predictably self-destructed.

        Can you honestly imagine a scenario in which Romney would have beaten Obama?

        I could, but they all require some notable scandal or disaster prior to the election.

        LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

        by dinotrac on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 06:27:58 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  New GOP Mantra.....if you can't beat Hillary (0+ / 0-)

          Clinton.....you need not apply......The assault on Obama was relentless giving every Tom Dick and Mary the notion that 'I can beat that guy'...The bar wasn't as low as the GOP thought because lots of people saw what they had and had not done over the past four years and wanted nothing to do with that party.....still don't.

        •  a lot of that CU money went to creating just that (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          skohayes, a2nite, wintergreen8694
          I could, but they all require some notable scandal or disaster prior to the election.
          and that and the other money that's been poisoning politics has been very successful doing just that in many races and issues- it worked great in turning a thoughtful decorated war veteran into a treasonous flip flopping coward and giving a treasonous flip flopping cowardly idiot another 4 years to destroy the country.

          your miserable record since 2010? what about before 2010?

          This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and partisan lying by broadcasting sports on Limbaugh radio stations.

          by certainot on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 06:37:40 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Oh, please! (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          One Opinion, askew, wintergreen8694

          It's a complete joke to compare the likes of the Obama/Clinton primary, which was close and long because of two very strong candidates, and this last Republican primary which, at different points in time, was led by the likes of Michele Bachmann and Herman Cain and Rick Santorum?
          The fact is, Romney couldn't win the primary without swinging hard right and it damaged him with minorities.

          “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

          by skohayes on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 07:00:40 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Context is everything. (0+ / 0-)

            And it is not remotely a joke.

            You run against the people who are in the election, not the folks you wish were in the election.  Romney was too stupid to create a winning strategy.  That's his fault.

            Swinging hard right was an idiotic tack.  Anybody who's lived in Illinois for a while can tell you that  with one name:

            Carole Mosely Braun.

            Let the dwarves beat each other up and split the far-right part of the vote between them.  Realize that lots of states have open primaries, and run for President, not candidate.

            Besides, how bright do you have to be to figure out that somebody who was governor of Massachusetts (Massa-freakin' Kennedy liberal - chusetts) and helped to birth their health care law would never be able to have true conservative credibility?  Romney needed a few Sister Souljah moments, not an Etch-a-Sketch.

            LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

            by dinotrac on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 07:46:05 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  corporations are people! money is free speech! (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      a2nite

      so you think it's fine that a major US party's official position is that the earth is flat and its candidates have the House and almost got 50% of the vote?

      that CU money and other money we couldn't get out of the political system is still negating and discouraging a lot of effort toward a safe environment and a stronger fairer and just democracy.

      a shitload of time and effort is spent/wasted by citizens trying to defend against and undo the efforts of highly paid corporate stooges with huge money bags whose jobs are to delay defeat destroy and undermine democracy.

      This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and partisan lying by broadcasting sports on Limbaugh radio stations.

      by certainot on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 06:16:35 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Free speech is an ugly thing and vital to (0+ / 0-)

        anything approaching democratic government.

        I am curious by your seeming belief that corporations consist of panda bears or trees or robots or whatever you think forms them.

        The corporations I'm familiar with are formed by people, and most of them consist of  a handful of people -- or less.

        LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

        by dinotrac on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 06:32:24 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  and their sole purpose is to make a profit- that's (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          a2nite, askew

          not compatible with democracy

          This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and partisan lying by broadcasting sports on Limbaugh radio stations.

          by certainot on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 06:40:23 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  You really don't know anything about corporations (0+ / 0-)

            or the Citizens United decision, do you?

            Go check the facts, grasshopper.
            They are not what you think.

            LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

            by dinotrac on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 06:44:54 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  you're in an ayn randian wet dream! wake up! (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              a2nite

              before it's too late

              it's not their purpose?

              This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and partisan lying by broadcasting sports on Limbaugh radio stations.

              by certainot on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 06:51:21 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  As you're too lazy even to Google, I will break it (0+ / 0-)

                for you.

                The purpose of for-profit corporations is to make a profit.
                The purpose o not-for-profit corporations is not.

                If you have sufficient curiosity to learn what the Citizens United decision was actually about, you will discover that Citizens United was a not-for-profit corporation.

                The corporate form is about liability, not profit.  It allows people to band together, investing money and effort, without risking more than the money and effort they've invested.  

                LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

                by dinotrac on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 06:57:53 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  a not for profit formed for the purpose of (0+ / 0-)

                  getting a decision from a corporate supreme court to make we the people/government more profitable for corporations

                  you're still in that dream- have some more coffee

                  This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and partisan lying by broadcasting sports on Limbaugh radio stations.

                  by certainot on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 07:13:49 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Gosh, just like Roe v. Wade. (0+ / 0-)

                    The Supreme Court is not obligated to take cases. It grants certiorari on the basis of the controversy involved.

                    Citizens United was indeed an excellent case for attacking the laws that restricted Corporate and Union activities because it highlighted the unnecessary breadth of those laws, and their (one hopes) unintended consequences.

                    LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

                    by dinotrac on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 07:26:30 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

      •  And, as expected, the one you are discussing (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        certainot, One Opinion

        this with fails to recognize or admit a simple fact. While corporations are made up of people with full Constitutional rights individually, the corporation itself is a state sanctioned artificial entity that has only recently been granted such degrees of "personhood" by  these ideologues.

        The process of trying to make a corporation a "person" with full Constitutional protection has been long term, originating in the late 1800s (a time of corporate excess). At that time, as explained in the link, corporations had not ventured into claiming the Bill of Rights (* marks cites in the original):

        The personification of the corporation occurred in 1886; the popular literature marks this as the year that the corporation “stole” the fourteenth amendment.*24 In Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad*25 the Court simply decreed, without hearing argument, that a corporation is a person for purposes of the fourteenth amendment. At issue was whether the due process clause barred the State of California from taxing the property of a railroad corporation differently from that of individuals. By the early twentieth century, the natural entity theory was established firmly, if not permanently. *26

        [*582] To understand why the corporation did not assert theories of corporate personality in the Bill of Rights context until the twentieth century, and to understand the recent interest in the corporate Bill of Rights, one must first survey the political economy of regulation as it developed in the twentieth century.

        For an interesting little mind game, let us assume corporations are indeed "persons" and apply all that implies. The corporation is found guilty in criminal law of having killed. Death penalty. Corporate charter dissolved, all assets dissolved. The "corporation" jailed? All board members and top officers incarcerated as they are the body and mind?

        The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. [Elbert Hubbard]

        by pelagicray on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 07:16:11 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  TA. then our jails would be full of white collars (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          pelagicray

          we would have to release the bread thieves to make room

          thanks

          This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and partisan lying by broadcasting sports on Limbaugh radio stations.

          by certainot on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 07:38:27 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I am all for that. Little tends to piss me off (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            certainot

            more than reading of a corporate scam that ripped off thousands to millions of people, sometimes ruining their dreams of a relatively peaceful road to the end of life, and that the principals with actual personhood in that corporation are getting off without real suffering. When I hear of death and destruction through corporate malfeasance or even neglect I think not only of corporate death penalties but execution of principals for mass murder.

            I could perhaps go for the Chinese solution of a bullet in the neck for the people responsible for "corporate" killing such as mine disasters and such.

            The corporate principals knowingly or negligently involved in such are far, far worse than the purse snatcher or burglar that goes to jail or the impulsive murderer that may face execution. They do it with intent to profit with reckless disregard of others and undermine our civilization to a far larger degree.

            The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. [Elbert Hubbard]

            by pelagicray on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 08:02:22 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  paid global warming denial tops my list now. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              pelagicray

              being ignorant is one thing.

              getting paid to delay necessary action so the fossil fuels dinosaurs don't have to adjust, while they buy leases for prospects that won't be accessible until ice melts, should get the treason label.

              they're all over the radio and fox, and the fossil fuels and nukes industries are hoping to make it so bad they can sell their centralized solutions in the emergency.

              This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and partisan lying by broadcasting sports on Limbaugh radio stations.

              by certainot on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 09:01:40 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

  •  The Rep Base (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skohayes

    I'm not clear whether the reps created or enabled/sought to piggy-back on the conservative entertainment complex. I wasn't paying attention. But they don't control it. Its a business and it has a huge audience. And many support or have tolerated it for their own ends, eg.Wall Street and the NRA.
    There are a number of so-called pundits who have trended way to the right and I'm wondering if they went as far right as they did because they are simply ignorant or because there is no longer a limit on the conservative end of the spectlum and their publishers need to appeal to TPers who can read.
    Conservative pundits that would have been laughable to Goldwater are praised nowadays.
    We are stuck with an underclass of ignorance I'm afraid because for all of the Rep party handwringing, there is nothing they'll ever be able to do to moderate their base.

  •  Walmart needs to learn the Henry Ford lesson (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    One Opinion

    Dumbasses. Sam Walton raised some greedy, short sighted children.

    "Given the choice between a Republican and someone who acts like a Republican, people will vote for a real Republican every time." Harry Truman

    by MargaretPOA on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 06:04:33 AM PST

  •  Real question: What is the Republican base? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skillet, a2nite

    I think the GOP needs to spend a little time contemplating its navel and meditating on "Who in the hell am I"?

    They exuberantly misread the 2010 elections and misunderstood the widespread appeal of the Tea Party  -- movement? phenomenon? thing to hang your hat on and say "We are not amused??".  A party with a long history of appealing to mainstream Americans tried its own variation on a supersonic skydive, forgetting both the parachute and the space suit.

    Maybe it's the inbred/ingrained stupidity of American politics in general.  After all, Democrats did the same thing in the 70s and 80s, until Bill Clinton made them relevant again.  And, of course, they continue to diss Bill Clinton for doing the very things that made Democrats matter again.

    The good news for Republicans is that Democrats will screw it up again, creating fresh opportunity for the opposition.  Maybe Chris Christie or Marco Rubio or some as-yet unidentified rising star will lead them back to glory.

    While they're  contemplating that giant GOP navel, they should also contemplate the just-completed election cycle.  Democrats should have been toast.  The last 4 years have been a disaster for the country on nearly every front, and yet, the Republicans couldn't take advantage.  No matter how loudly opportunity knocks, you ain't gettin' nowhere if you don't know how to open the door.

    LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

    by dinotrac on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 06:10:29 AM PST

    •  if you read Will Rogers (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dinotrac

      you are  reminded that it was always so.

      "Politics has got so expensive that it takes lots of money to even get beat with nowadays." DT #1538, June 28, 1931

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 06:32:38 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  So (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      One Opinion, askew

      growing the economy out of a huge recession, creating jobs and dealing with a recalcitrant and obstructive Republican party, while at the same time ending the war in Iraq and drawing down troops in Afghanistan is a "disaster" in your mind?
      Reducing the deficit? Cutting $716 billion from Medicare without touching benefits ring a bell?
      Imagine where we could have been if the Republicans had decided that the direction of the economy was more important than their ability to exercise their political power?
      If they had admitted that the tax cuts for the wealthy and the subsidies for oil companies were actually adding to the deficit and weren't worth protecting at the cost of the good faith and credit of the United States?

      “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

      by skohayes on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 07:09:54 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I would really like to see what universe you live (0+ / 0-)

        in.

        All those long-term unemployed folks, not to mention all those college graduates working on unpaid internships might disagree with your contention that the country has grown out of a recession.

        Honestly -- you should be embarrassed to make such a ludicrous claim.

        LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

        by dinotrac on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 07:58:10 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Google is your friend (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          askew

          The recession isn't measured by the number of unemployed, but by the growth of the economy. As the economy grows, people get hired.
          I'm assuming you agree that instead of cutting spending and killing jobs, the Republican led House should have been passing legislation to help people get back to work, instead of passing 110 bills restricting access to abortion and 33 bills to repeals Obamacare, etc?

          “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

          by skohayes on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 08:49:18 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  We haven't grown out of anything. (0+ / 0-)

            To the extent that GDP has increased, it has failed to keep pace with population growth -- ditto for jobs.

            Feel free to cling to numbers out of context. They are your friends whenever reality scares you.

            My first wife was a psychometrician. She used to say something I still like,"Most people use numbers the way a drunk uses a lamp-post: for support rather than illumination."

            LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

            by dinotrac on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 09:00:21 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  speaking of historic views of politics (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      skillet

      this from the musical L'Il Abner 1956

      :

      Them GOP's and Democrats each hates the other one.
      They's always criticizing how the country should be run.
      But neither tells the public what the other's gone and done.
      As long as no one knows where no one stands,
      The country's in the very best of hands.

          They sits around in this place they're at,
          Where folks in congress have always sat.
          Just sits around on their excess fat,
          Up there they call them their thigh bones.

          They sits around 'til they start to snore,
          Jumps up and hollers "I has the floor!"
          Then sits right down where they sat before,
          Up there they call them their thigh bones.

              Them bones, them bones gonna rise again
              So dignified and so wise again
              While the budget doubles in size again,
              If we gets them off of their thigh bones.

      The money that they taxes us, that's known as revenues,
      They compound up collaterals, subtracts the residues.
      Don't worry 'bout the principle and interest that accrues,
      They're shipping all that stuff to foreign lands,
      The country's in the very best of hands.

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 07:12:49 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  GOTV's Role (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skillet, skohayes, zizi

    On a national scale, Dems. have the advantage over the Republicans in that more people favor them and their policies.  And the trend is growing due to the support from the minority communities.  So while the Republicans are faced with the problem of changing peoples' minds to win, Dems. only have to get the people who already support them to the polls.  The elections since 2006 prove this out.  When Dems. got their supporters motivated to vote in 2006, 2008 & 2012 we won, but when they didn't, like in 2010, they lost.

    Just saying the importance of GOTV for Dems. can't be understated, and must be emphasized in future campaigns if we want to win.

    "Some men see things as they are and ask, 'Why?' I dream of things that never were and ask, 'Why not?"

    by Doctor Who on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 06:21:06 AM PST

  •  as go the radio gods, so goes the GOP (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite

    it is unfortunate that most of our pundits barely factor in what the radio gods and their handlers have been doing until it bites us. and it's unfortunate that still so little effort is spent monitoring and countering the most important enabler of the now insane GOP. the left seems to be content to react after the damage is done, try to salvage what's left, and maybe claim victory if the compromises forced by the GOP's corporate masters aren't too great.

    This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and partisan lying by broadcasting sports on Limbaugh radio stations.

    by certainot on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 06:25:25 AM PST

  •  Great round up, Greg! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skillet, One Opinion

    Here's Dana Milbank on DeMint's leaving the Senate:

    The senator, a tea party hero from South Carolina, is a smart guy and a good politician. But running a think tank? It is the scholarly equivalent of appointing Michael Moore to head the Brookings Institution, or Ted Nugent to the Cato Institute, or Roseanne Barr to the Council on Foreign Relations, or perhaps Donald Trump to the American Enterprise Institute.

    But think about it some more and the choice of DeMint begins to look brilliant. He is, arguably, the perfect candidate to run a post-thought think tank.

    Come to think of it, Jim DeMint and the Heritage Foundation make sense

    “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

    by skohayes on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 06:30:58 AM PST

  •  The always great and to the point (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    singe, One Opinion

    Elon James White, as he talks about a conservative commenter (video at the link) who said this:

    The Rev. C.L. Bryant:
    Yes, indeed I do. in fact, there is a culture of dependency that has been groomed by the Democrat Party over a period of 50 years. A distortion of history even over that 50-year period of time. Many black people have forgotten that it was Democrats who stood in the doorway of the University of Alabama to block black students from going there. It was Democrats who Eisenhower had to send the National Guard out to Arkansas in order that the Little Rock Nine could go to school in Little Rock. And the history of black people in this country, even the political history, those who were first elected to Congress and to Senate were all Republicans. And the first Democrat elected to the Senate in the United States was Carol Moseley Braun, and the second one was Barack Obama. The history of the Republican Party has always been that of freedom for all people ...
    Elon:
    I'm not someone who is against conservative ideology for the sake of being against it. I, and I'm sure many other blacks, can even agree with aspects of the conservative viewpoint. But contrary to the incredibly insulting premise that blacks voted against their interest by overwhelmingly supporting Barack Obama, many voted for who they thought would be best for them and their country.

    Can anyone reasonably make the argument that the Republican Party showed itself to be a better alternative to President Obama? We should have voted for the dude who said "If they want free stuff, vote for the other guy"? The guy making Birther jokes? We were "emotional" because we rejected the party that even now says it doesn't care where new revenue comes from as it actively tries to make sure that revenue doesn't come from the top 2 percent?

    snip

    We haven't been tricked. We've been observant.

    http://www.theroot.com/...

    “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

    by skohayes on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 06:37:40 AM PST

  •  Dr Dworkin....one of these days.....we're gonna (0+ / 0-)

    have to discuss the Jankees......just sayin....don't get you feathers all ruffled....;-)

  •  Question - is all the election counting done,... (0+ / 0-)

    ...or does the David Wasserman watch on the President reaching 51% continue apace?

    "A liberal is a man or a woman or a child who looks forward to a better day, a more tranquil night, and a bright, infinite future." – Leonard Bernstein

    by frisco on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 07:35:19 AM PST

  •  Don't think for a second the Koch brothers.... (0+ / 0-)

    and Sheldon Adelson aren't going to make sure that their 100's of millions of dollars are going to go to technology to try and beat the Dems at their own game.  They aren't going to be able to win on message, so they'll try to "Money Ball" their way in.  That and a bit of voter suppression.

    This GOP is so far outside the norm it needs to be ground to dust.  Let them start over from scratch.  I'm all for a 2 party system, but both parties have to actually occupy the same reality-based universe for that to work.

  •  Mark Thoma framed it exactly right (0+ / 0-)

    Bush and the GOP borrowed money from the Social Security Trust Fund, the Chinese and other, gave it to the rich who were suppose to be "investors" and "job creators" with the money.  Instead they gambled it away in the financial markets and outsourcing.  Too bad, they should have done better, but now it is time for them to pay it back.  Otherwise the rest of us will with higher taxes and less money when we retire.  Oh yea and wages have gone down as well.

    The difficulty lies not so much in developing new ideas as in escaping from old ones! - John Maynard Keynes

    by Do Something on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 08:43:34 AM PST

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