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In 2008, 20,000 children were injured by guns.

In 2011, 9000 plus Americans were murdered with guns.

Between 2008-09 almost 6000 kids were killed with guns in America.

Every year close to 90 preschoolers are killed with guns.

That's close to twice the number of cops shot, per year.

What are acceptable numbers?

I'm not being facetious.

And once you've decided on what numbers you could live with, ask how much the laws would have to change, to say, reduce gun murders by 5000/year. A assault weapons ban wouldn't do that. Neither would a "larger clip" ban.

These are serious issues and we will NEVER get something if we can't say specifically what we're trying to achieve. And we can't say what we want to achieve if we don't KNOW.

So what do you want, and what will it take.

Data from here:
http://www.childrensdefense.org/...

I know that we like to "organize" and make "rational" decisions. That's our nature, but before you start agitating for policy change, ask yourself: will this change get me what I want?

What do you want?

I know many folks want SOMETHING to change sooner than later, but now, when we have a chance to get SOME change, shouldn't we be aiming for more than a 2% reduction in gun accidents over the next decade, for example.

Please vote, and if you think this issue is import, please recommend this diary so others vote.

Poll

What percentage-reduction of gun related murders/injuries is acceptable?

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71%10 votes

| 14 votes | Vote | Results

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Comment Preferences

  •  None are "acceptable" and it's not necessary to (0+ / 0-)

    determine any number acceptable. We strive for zero, knowing we will never get there. Similar to automobile safety laws and regulations.

    Do you know how many people are maimed and killed in vehicle accidents each year? How many kids and adults are injured and suffer permanent disabilities? Head injuries? How many of those are "acceptable"? None of them.

    But do we ban cars and trucks and motorcycles? No, we are required to accept there will be some number of lives lost due to accidents, carelessness, and misuse of vehicles, because motor vehicles are dangerous and used by people in ways that often cause harm to self and others.

    But we will have them, nonetheless, and we do as much as possible to make them safer, on several fronts at once: better safety features in cars, and better safety features in the roads we build; laws about who can drive and how fast; mandated use of safety belts... etc. There is no ending point of "success" where we can say now only X number of deaths and disabilities in car accidents occur each year, and we've deemed that number "acceptable" so now we can sit back and say we're done. It's a matter of continuous improvement and ongoing work to reduce the harm. We never reach zero, and we never stop trying to improve.

    With guns, it is a similar problem. I may not personally want one or understand the need or desire to have them. But I do accept that in this society we will have them. The question is not to find an acceptable number of deaths and wounds. The question is how do you effectively reduce the number of murders and incidents of gun violence and gun accidents?

    Prohibition of anything leads to black market, illegal trade, etc. See drug war. And a complete ban will never happen in this country. We need something more than just a ban on guns as a solution. I want to see a discussion about how we make things better, and makes guns less dangerous, in a realistic way.

    •  the problem (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Onomastic, Kingsmeg, mrkvica

      my problem with your response is:

      - Gun bans do work, there's multiple real world examples like in the UK
      - You admit there IS an acceptable figure from cars, etc., so there must be one here
      - Knowing a ban will not happen in the US, we have to think about what we will accept
      - Reductions almost always have targets, that's how policies are made

      That being said, I genuinely appreciate you engaging with this! Thank you!

  •  80 People Shot Every Day (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jan4insight, gramofsam1, mrkvica

    Thanks for your article, detailing the toll our lust for guns takes on children

    In America, over 30,000 people die every year due to gunshot injury.  That over 80 people dead of gunshot wounds on an average day.

    The shootings in Newtown were horrible.

    But today, we will kill over twice as many people as died in Newtown.  This death toll will not be reported in the news.  And tomorrow we will kill another 80 or so people, and the next day, and the next, and the next one after that.  Few of these shootings will make the news.

    Any one of these deaths should be enough for us to change our laws.  I hope I live to see the day.

    "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

    by Hugh Jim Bissell on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 09:46:24 AM PST

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