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This won't be much of a diary.  I came across a story which explains where we currently stand in a way I never could.  It was written by the mother of a mentally ill son.  I'm frankly surprised I haven't seen this covered on dKos.  If any of you think gun control in the form of limiting firepower might be a path forward, I would like to have you imagine what a motivated suicide bomber, acting alone, might accomplish if he were intelligent enough to construct a device on his own, and then read this.

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Comment Preferences

  •  I did read it--I read it yesterday. It's very (17+ / 0-)

    powerful.

    But it doesn't dissuade me in the least from my strong conviction that limited/regulated weaponry and firepower in this country is extremely important.

    Actually it strengthened that opinion.

  •  a motivated suicide bomber (18+ / 0-)

    can do now what he (and it always is a HE) could do then, anyway. there are mentally ill all over the developed world who don't massacre people. first, because the vast vast majority of mentally ill wouldn't even if they could. second, because they don't have easy access to guns.

    this isn't rocket science.

    The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

    by Laurence Lewis on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 08:58:05 PM PST

  •  80ish a day dead , 300ish a day wounded . (6+ / 0-)

    How does that story fit with those numbers ?

    "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

    by indycam on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 09:00:09 PM PST

  •  Dude, It was all over internet and DKos. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    devis1, koNko, splashy

    "Covered" to death, so to speak

    Coming Soon -- to an Internet connection near you: Armisticeproject.org

    by FischFry on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 09:03:17 PM PST

    •  No one here is missing anything. (10+ / 0-)

      We are all well aware of the limited help out there for those dealing with mental illness.

      When 20 toddlers are gunned down by heavily armed person, with an automatic assault rifle and massive amounts of ammo, the biggest problem isn't mental illness....unless you're snidely characterizing the madness of our national gun fetish.

      Coming Soon -- to an Internet connection near you: Armisticeproject.org

      by FischFry on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 09:08:18 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  6 year olds are not toddlers (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Chacounne

        just saying

        ("toddlers" ends at 3 or 4)

        Bumper sticker seen on I-95; "Stop Socialism" my response: "Don't like socialism? GET OFF the Interstate highway!"

        by Clytemnestra on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 09:10:13 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Institutionalizing / treating the mentally ill ... (0+ / 0-)

        only risks interfering with the rights of a few, statistically speaking, compared to revoking the rights of everyone else.  Let's at least acknowledge where the REAL problem lies instead of pretending it occurs elsewhere because of personal fears.

        "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

        by Neuroptimalian on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 09:44:55 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  If the choice is this... (0+ / 0-)

          Choice #1: Creating a massive investment -- probably billions of dollars - to support the provision of mental health services to those who cannot afford it or don't think they want it and to identify and institutionalize I don't how many people that might conceivably in the absolute worst case pose a risk to others...and thereby institutionalize thousands of people who would never actually pose a risk to others, effectively jailing them without any charge of crime...

          Choice #2: Restricting the types of guns and ammunition magazines available to collectors and fetishists and trying to deny access to firearms for those who might be mentally unstable (as opposed to institutionalizing them).....

          I gotta think the better choice is Choice #1 -- every day and twice on Sunday.

          Coming Soon -- to an Internet connection near you: Armisticeproject.org

          by FischFry on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 07:09:49 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  they may not be making it to the rec list tonight (9+ / 0-)

    BUT mental health is being discussed

    here's what you will find under "mental health"
    http://www.dailykos.com/...

    and here's what you will find under
    http://www.dailykos.com/...

    and mental illness
    http://www.dailykos.com/...

    Bumper sticker seen on I-95; "Stop Socialism" my response: "Don't like socialism? GET OFF the Interstate highway!"

    by Clytemnestra on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 09:04:37 PM PST

  •  Adding to the problem? (6+ / 0-)

    Where have you been the last three days? Composing this diary?




    Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us.
    ~ Jerry Garcia

    by DeadHead on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 09:11:46 PM PST

  •  make access to guns very difficult n/t (5+ / 0-)
  •  A LOT of people read that story (5+ / 0-)

    It's very moving and disturbing, but even more reason to limit the types of guns that anyone can buy to single-shot pistols or rifles. It's MUCH easier to buy a gun at Walmart or one the internet than to construct a suicide bomb -- so that's a lame example. Plus, what mass homicide event in the U.S. was conducted by bomb? With the exception of the first twin tower bombing, NONE.

    The civil rights, gay rights and women's movements, designed to allow others to reach for power previously grasped only by white men, have made a real difference, and the outlines of 21st century America have emerged. -- Paul West of LA Times

    by LiberalLady on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 09:18:37 PM PST

  •  Yup, read it a few days ago. You neglect to (12+ / 0-)

    mention the firestorm of controversy that it created all by its own self by setting up a pejorative attitude about "mental illness" with regard to the potential for the commission of violent acts.  There are several issues that need to be discussed, either separately or in concert, but you've left out bullying and other issues that have led to other school shootings and mass killings...

    "Mental illness" can have a role to play, but it's a heck of a lot easier to get hold of a firearm than it is to round up fertilizer, diesel fuel, and detonators in the amounts necessary to 'make a statement', so there is an obvious place to start on the prevention side of this ledger...

    "In a nation ruled by swine, all pigs are upward mobile..." - Dr. Hunter S. Thompson

    by Jack K on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 09:20:41 PM PST

  •  What you're missing: (10+ / 0-)

    We can walk and chew gum at the same time. It's fully possible that our lax gun laws, our horrible mental healthcare and our awful culture of violence all contribute to the problem. The first two things are something the government can and should directly address.

    matthewborgard.com ~ @MatthewBorgard

    by zegota on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 09:43:37 PM PST

  •  But that is exactly the point of gun control! (9+ / 0-)

    If you don't want mass casualties you have two choices -- either fix every person who might (in the future) want to cause mass casualties, or restrict their access to devices that can cause mass casualties.

    With billions of people in the world and a knowledge of human psychology that works (at best) only slightly better than Tarot cards the answer at this point is obvious.    We do not allow unrestricted access to hand grenades.

    We cannot fix every human on the planet.   Not only do we not know how, but we do not even know which humans are 'just different' (the vast majority of those with issues) and those who are potential killers.  

    The problem with guns is that it is very easy to kill somebody on impulse.   With automatic guns, it is easy to kill large numbers of people on impulse -- which is exactly why we restrict access to hand grenades and RPGs without a peep of complaint from the NRA.   Guns also change the normal balance of power; an 8-year-old with a gun can kill the most hardened marine veteran, or the best teacher in the world.

    We need to restrict guns -- both the real guns that kill people and the artifical guns that we use to glorify such killings.  

    As a side note, why is it that all of these "aspie" kids are genuises?

    As another side note, the kid turns out to be a very conservative kid from a parent who appears to be a survivalist.  His dad is VP of tax avoidence for GE, who owns NBC.    (You have to see Scarborough's rant, good but does not acknowledge his contribution to the problem.)

     The Glen Becks and Rush Limbagughs of the world have a lot to answer for.   When you tell people that the country is in danger of communist takeover because a moderate Republican wins re-election what do you expect to happen?    

    •  Obama is a "moderate Republican"? (0+ / 0-)

      Guess we better start maligning him like we do all the others or else we're being hypocrites.  You go first.

      "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

      by Neuroptimalian on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 09:54:35 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  President Obama Suggested It Himself. (7+ / 0-)
        In a Thursday interview with a Miami-based local television station, Obama said he thinks few people believe he wants to impose socialism on the country.

        "The truth of the matter is that my policies are so mainstream that if I had set the same policies that I had back in the 1980s, I would be considered a moderate Republican," he told Noticias Univision 23 in a White House interview.

        http://thehill.com/...
        •  Yes, there's lots of evidence that today's (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          majcmb1

          Democratic Party is simply our parent's Republican party . . . .  heck, every day it seems like there is a diary here about some high or mid profile Republican who has "switched" to the Dem Party - with the requisite crowing and rejoicing.

          I'm never all that happy, however, because what that means is that we now have a center right and extreme right party in this country, with no one representing those in the very center, not to mention those with even slightly left-leaning views are huge pariahs.

      •  Yes, he's just to the right of center (3+ / 0-)

        No way he's to the left at all.

        But, compared to those that want girls and women to be property again, who want all workers to be serfs, and who want only the wealthy to have any say in government, he's much better on everything.

        Women create the entire labor force. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sympathy is the strongest instinct in human nature. - Charles Darwin

        by splashy on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 04:24:04 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Re your signature, splashy... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          historys mysteries

          This Darwin fellow seems to have it together.  

          It's no wonder he gives the fundies such fits.

          •  Yes, he got it (0+ / 0-)

            Survival of the fittest does not mean the strongest, the fastest, or the most intelligent every time.

            There are other survival skills that can be far more important, like cooperation, being liked, and being helpful. Being pretty can be a survival "skill." :-D

            Women create the entire labor force. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sympathy is the strongest instinct in human nature. - Charles Darwin

            by splashy on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 02:23:58 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

  •  Munchausen Mommy (6+ / 0-)

    got alot of attention.  How sweet of her to compare her troubled young son to a mass murderer and post his picture on her website. She didn't share what kind of arsenal she has locked away, awaiting the day when he will fulfill her dreams for him.

    •  That amazed me too- (4+ / 0-)

      I can't imagine how she thought it would help her son to be publicly identified as a killer-in-the-making by his mother. Does she think her 13 year old son can't read her blog? Does she think his friends can't read it? That's of course assuming he still has friends any after this.

      But you're right- she got a lot of attention. There's another diary here suggesting that it might all be bullshit anyway.  But true or false, she did her son no favors.

  •  We cannot force mentally ill people (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nancelot, blueoasis, misterwade, splashy

    to get help even if we offer it.  Unless a person is a danger to himself or to others, nothing can be done to force them to accept help.  Obviously, some of the pronouncements about this tragedy by church leaders and gun advocates would qualify that person as one in need of serious counsel.  Who would decide that a person should receive treatment?

    The shooter's mother was aware of the problems that her son was having but because she was his mother, she never allowed herself to think that he would harm anyone physically.  That's not unlike most other loving mothers, so would family members be the best source of direction?


    The religious fanatics didn't buy the republican party because it was virtuous, they bought it because it was for sale

    by nupstateny on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 11:33:36 PM PST

    •  Even when the person is a danger, the (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      misterwade

      system barely works. Among other issues ... I'll name just one ... HIPAA legislation makes it very difficult for someone to get help from their associates, friends, community, and family.

      Personal experience speaking here. Bad, stupid law in the real world, never fixed by lazy Congressionals.

      Thump! Bang. Whack-boing. It's dub!

      by dadadata on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 04:14:23 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Mental illness in a child must be a terrible thing (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    suesue

    How big is your personal carbon footprint?

    by ban nock on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 11:58:32 PM PST

  •  Look.....One Idiot Went On A Plane w/ a Shoe Bomb (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    blueoasis, koNko, misterwade, splashy

    now everyone in the country has to take their shoes off when they fly.  All your toiletries have to be on top of your clothes in a plastic bag....so they can be viewed on xray.

    Surely, we can ban assault rifles & multi ammo clips.

    That is.....if the NRA will let us.  

  •  No matter how horrific (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    koNko, misterwade, splashy

    these mass shooting incidents are, they are only a fraction of the problem. Every day 8 kids die of gunshot wounds. Since friday another 32 kids have died. Mental health care is important, but it doesn't address the problem.

    I really don't understand the denial that I see from people I'd expect a more reality based view on this subject.

    Do you think criminals should be able to buy guns?
    Do you think a person who has been involved in domestic violence, should be able to buy a gun.
    Do you think taking high capacity magazines of the market infringe on your 2nd amendment right?
    Do you think assault weapons have a place in a civil society?
    Do you think it is a good thing that 40 % of guns are bought illegally?

    I think it is time for people who refer to themselves as responsible gun owners, to join the discussion about responsible gun ownership.

  •  Blah blah blah diversion distraction blah blah (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    koNko, dadadata, misterwade, splashy, sngmama

    So gun control won't prevent every bad thing from happening.  Neither does modern medicine but I'm very much a supporter.

    You know, I sometimes think if I could see, I'd be kicking a lot of ass. -Stevie Wonder at the Glastonbury Festival, 2010

    by Rich in PA on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 03:41:08 AM PST

  •  I don't perceive that the (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    koNko, misterwade, splashy

    discussion here in the wake of the Sandy Hill massacre is "adding to the problem."

    The dialogue on this site has been wide and deep.  The national media is a pale comparison to what people on this site have contributed.

  •  There is a diary about it. (0+ / 0-)

    Maybe you should read it and reconsider the issue.

    There is no way to guarantee absolute safety. But do we need to take unnecessary risks just so a small minority of society can enjoy better wet dreams?

    Sometimes they snap and then access x lethalness = tragedy

    What about my Daughter's future?

    by koNko on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 04:09:16 AM PST

  •  STASI (0+ / 0-)

    Related-
    With 117,000,000 US household nationwide- maybe there is a way the govt could successfully monitor everyone. If parents are 'off track' so to speak, unable or emotionally challenged to get their children help.. really, any scenario-
    With what we might call the Stasi Solution, the govt could step in and detain the suspected individual, since everyone is now monitored.

    As a parent of 5, I say that satirically. It is incumbent upon the parent or family member to be sensitive to the other- and know when the proverbial line is crossed.

    I am ANTI-GUN - but I have enjoyed solutions set forth by many DailyKos members:

    Bullets are only available for purchase at police stations at a heavily taxed price. Gun owners have to insure their weapons. Assault weapons- like the UK- any cartridge weapon: No longer sold.

    m

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