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How long before the NRA -- the "No Responsibility Association" that disclaims any blame whenever gun violence takes place -- becomes politically toxic? The groundswell of editorials against the NRA's stances signals that at least the debate about the NRA is changing.

The editors at New York Daily News pen a blistering piece against the NRA and the zombie-politicos under its spell:

Two Democratic senators with top National Rifle Association ratings on Monday started what must be a groundswell for lifesaving gun controls.

Change must echo through the halls of Congress. Not next week, not next month. Now.
As Newtown’s families begin the nightmarish task of burying their sons and daughters, give credit to gun-rights stalwarts Joe Manchin of West Virginia and Mark Warner of Virginia for finally entertaining the possibility of limiting virtually unfettered access to assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition magazines.

And heap shame upon the dozens of others who remain under the spell of the firearms lobby, which time and again has shrugged off mass murder as someone else’s business.

Timothy J. Heyne's wife was murdered and he himself was seriously wounded during a gun attack in 2005. In The San Francisco Chronicle, he writes a powerful argument against the NRA bullies who have blood on their hands. Read it, share it, act on it:
I still carry a bullet in my lung, scars on my body, an actual hole in my chest (and a much bigger one in my heart) that remind me daily about this madness and how small your chances are in front of a killer in a rage armed with semiautomatic handgun. I've felt the torque of bullets plowing into me, seen loved ones' eyes roll back in their heads and mouths that will never speak or kiss again. So don't give me your twisted red, white and blue rhetoric that it's un-American to establish sensible gun laws. What is un-American is that we stand by and do nothing as our loved ones are slaughtered!

The U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the right to bear arms is protected by the Constitution, but what type of weapon and where and how it can (and can't) be used and owned can be regulated. Where do we start? We get the assault weapon ban that sunsetted during the Bush era reinstated. We stop permitting the sale of extended magazines that permit these monsters to fire hundreds of rounds of death just as fast as they can pull a trigger. We unify background checks throughout the nation, and we close the gun-show loophole that permits unlicensed sellers to peddle their wares without so much as showing a driver's license in some states. All of these are just common sense. None of these laws impedes the right of a safe and legal gun owner.

The NRA and the gun lobby are at the core of most of this bloodshed. Not the rank and file. I've spoken to many, many NRA members who share my views on safe and sensible gun laws. It's the gun lobby hierarchy that crafts and distorts the message and conversation to make it all about America, the Constitution and whatever other drivel they can make up to keep their coffers and political influence fat and their paranoid and fear-driven propaganda flying. They are insidiously evil entities that make the tobacco lobby look like the Make-A-Wish campaign by contrast.

Paul Waldman at The New York Times reminds Washington that NRA bullies actually wield very little vote-moving power:
The National Rifle Association tells elected officials that if they support any kind of restriction on guns, they are doomed to defeat at the polls, and many of them believe it. The truth, however, is that not only does the N.R.A. have virtually no effect on elections, the public is quite open to any number of sensible restrictions on guns.

This year, the N.R.A. spent over $13 million in a failed attempt to defeat President Obama. In the Senate, the group spent over $100,000 in eight races trying to elect their favored candidates. Seven of the eight lost, most by comfortable margins. That pattern is repeated in election after election.

The Star-Ledger Editorial Board:
Former Republican congressman Joe Scarborough, of MSNBC’s “Morning Joe,” came out forcefully against the gun lobby, echoed by his guest, West Virginia Sen. Joe Manchin — a conservative Democrat from a pro-gun state, who fired a rifle in his campaign commercial.

Another NRA-endorsed senator, Mark Warner of Virginia, chimed in on Twitter.

All three called for stricter gun laws. Manchin said he’d consider restricting military-style, rapid-fire assault weapons and clips that hold dozens of rounds of ammunition. And as most Republicans and gun control advocates remain locked into their positions, it’s people such as this trio who could pivot our national debate.

Apparently, a fleet of child-sized caskets has replaced the symbolic struggle between individual rights and government control with a more urgent question: What can we do to stop these atrocities?

Daniel Webster, professor and the director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health in Baltimore, writing in The New York Times:
Extremists views on weapons that oppose any regulation on guns and stockpiling of weapons and ammunition may be gaining ground in some parts of the country. But the spate of mass shootings, particularly the tragedy at Sandy Hook Elementary School, and the extreme stances by the N.R.A. will certainly make some gun owners speak out for common sense reforms that would save lives with little or no impact on truly law-abiding gun owners.

The former House member, Gabrielle Giffords, who was seriously wounded in a mass shooting almost two years ago, and her husband, Mark Kelly, are the obvious candidates to take up this cause. Both are long-time gun owners whose lives have been devastated by gun violence. Kelly was one of the first to challenge elected officials to put citizen safety ahead of special interest lobby groups following the Sand Hook shooting. Others will follow. Joe Scarborough, former U.S. Representative with an A+ rating from the N.R.A., had harsh words for the N.R.A. and the gun lobby as he called for meaningful reforms to our gun policies.

The N.R.A. is not going away and will continue to be a force in gun policy and politics. But expect more gun owners to follow leaders like Giffords, Kelly and Scarborough. This will be the game-changer.

Senator Dick Durbin (D-IL), writing in the Chicago Tribune:
What holds us back [from rational gun control laws] are political organizations that are well-funded, well-organized and determined to resist even reasonable limitations. There is a close political parallel between the gridlock in Washington on dealing with our economy and national debt and the eerie silence in Congress as the list of horrific gun crimes grows by the day.

Too many of my colleagues just shrug their shoulders when gun issues come to the floor for a vote. They have made Grover Norquist-like pledges and feel duty-bound to vote "right" on every score card issue.

My wife and I grew up in families of hunters. We know the rite of passage when a father can take his son or daughter out hunting. I know the fun of watching the sun come up on a duck blind and hearing a seasoned hunter calling them in over the water. The hunters I know are good people who love the sport and hate the people who use firearms to terrorize and kill. We need for these hunters to join with many Americans who have never owned or used a firearm and call for a reasonable standard for gun use and ownership.

Until we do, the number of victims of gun tragedies will continue to grow and the silence of their funerals will be matched by the silence of those who have the power to change it.

The New York Times editorial board:
The challenge for the antigun-control side was put well by Mr. Scarborough, who said Monday that he had changed his view of the gun debate as a question of individual rights versus government control, and now sees it as an issue of public safety. There are no rights granted by the Constitution that are so absolute that they erase concerns about public safety and welfare.

There is reason, this time around, to hope that both parties can shake off the N.R.A. Mayor Michael Bloomberg of New York pointed out on Sunday that the lobby had failed to defeat Mr. Obama this year. And Representative John Yarmuth, a moderate Democrat from Kentucky, said: “The National Rifle Association has spent untold millions of dollars instilling fear in our citizens and our politicians. I believe it is more rational to fear guns far more than the illusory political power of the N.R.A.”

In fact, poll after poll has shown that N.R.A. members themselves are not opposed to measures like criminal background checks on gun sellers and gun buyers.

David Weigel:
The pattern repeats after every massacre and after every election of a Democratic president—sales of firearms and ammunition surge before the liberals can supposedly engineer their inevitable bans. Anyone who’s been to a gun show since 2008 has seen the rising prices and the religious certitude that President Obama will make a run at the Second Amendment, just like Illinois state Sen. Obama did in the 1990s.
The irony of the Great Ammo Panic: Liberals have failed to restrict sales, even as the interstate and online purchase of ammo has become easier. One of the NRA’s greatest legislative successes, the Firearms Owners’ Protection Act, let dealers sell ammo without recording vital information about the buyers. That law eventually facilitated the online ammo market, which allows sites like CheaperThanDirt to sell 30-round extended clips for $8.99.
Meanwhile, the NRA proves that it's simultaneously run by bullies and cowards. From Mashable:
The National Rifle Association has abandoned its social media communities following Friday's shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn. The NRA's Facebook page has been shuttered and it hasn't tweeted since Friday. [...]

Beyond the social web, the NRA has not made any official statements following the tragic school shooting.

UPDATE: Greg Dworkin at The Arena:
Assault weapons and high capacity magazines have no place in American society. And while thoughtful people everywhere understand that there's no easy solution to either gun violence or mental health issues, it is unacceptable that the assault weapons ban was allowed to expire in 2004, and supporting mental health discussions is not a substitute for discussing rational gun policy.

Want to do more (background checks and private sales)? Is more the right thing to do? Can we do it and still respect gun rights and ownership?

Let's have that discussion. Let's have it now. We need better policy, not more heroes.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 04:38 AM PST.

Also republished by Repeal or Amend the Second Amendment (RASA).

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Comment Preferences

  •  Thinking about this issue about gun access (16+ / 0-)

    I've wondered about the Al Capone strategy; get them on taxes. Why not tax the crap out of high capacity magazines. Make gun sellers have to register as sellers at gun shows and the permits cost a few thousand dollars. Use the funds for a national back ground check system.

    I'm all for banning a number of things, but making them all cost prohibitive seems like a possible startegy too.

    The Spice must Flow!

    by Texdude50 on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 04:50:02 AM PST

    •  I agree. Take the profit out of it! (6+ / 0-)

      That Bushmaster M4 Carbine, that the shooter used, costs a thousand bucks on Cabella's!

      We need to do something about all of the demagogues who are getting rich by telling crazy people that civilization is on the brink of collapse and there are hordes of armed Muslims just waiting to invade. There is no way that a person as irresponsible as Glenn Beck should have a broadcast license, but the FCC is just another Federal commission neutered by the requirement that it be composed of one half Republicans.

    •  Tax the ammunition. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wintergreen8694, belle1, cany

      Call it a sin tax, like they have on liquor and cigarrettes.
      Ban cash and carry sales at gun shows (you can order a gun, but not walk out of the show with it).
      Ban internet sales of guns (or require a background check).
      3 month waiting period.

      “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

      by skohayes on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 06:11:02 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Why not just outlaw the gun, while we're at it, (0+ / 0-)

      at the other guns that can do this hind of damage?

      I see no useful purpose for a weapon that can do what this gun can do. And with that, what about guns capable of bump firing?

      And yes, limit capacity to 6 rounds or something. And yes, register and insure all guns. And yes, tax the crap out of guns and ammo.

      There are a million good suggestions aside from the obvious need to provide better mental health care.

      The first step will be outlawing some kinds of guns and perhaps large capacity magazines/clips/drums. That will happen through Sen. Feinstein sometime next year.

      Now is the time.

      202-224-3121 to Congress in D.C. USE it! You can tell how big a person is by what it takes to discourage them. "We're not perfect, but they're nuts."--Barney Frank 01/02/2012

      by cany on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 12:55:51 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  See below for jujitsu of RTL meme and tactics (0+ / 0-)
  •  Wayne LaPierre is hoping it blows over, I'm sure. (6+ / 0-)

    Meanwhile, he has the blood of innocents to wash up in.

    "Michael Moore, who was filming a movie about corporate welfare called 'Capitalism: A Love Story,' sought and received incentives."

    by Bush Bites on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 04:50:35 AM PST

  •  'Sin' Tax Guns, Like Cigarettes, Alcohol and More (5+ / 0-)
    We Have 'Sin' Taxes on Many Groups of People's Rights. 'Sin' Tax Guns and All Related Needs For Use Of!

    {sign petition at link above}

    I propose one new policy. We have 'Sin' taxes on the rights of some groups, along with those taxes heavy restrictions, so let there be a 'Sin' tax on these weapons and supplies, ammunition and more, that you need to fill out your arsenals. I propose at least half the cost of each weapon be added to that full cost and each bullets cost be doubled, that half cost also added to any supplies, holsters, sites, magazines/clips {restricted loads for} etc.. These taxes are then added to the treasuries to pay the costs, compensations for first responders, much more, of the carnage these weapons create as they are designed to.

    A civil society should actually be just that, working with each other for that civility and the freedoms it brings!

    USN All Shore '67-'71 GMG3 Vietnam In Country '70-'71

    Vets On FLOTUS and SLOTUS, "Best - Ever": "We haven't had this kind of visibility from the White House—ever." Joyce Raezer - Dec. 30, 2011

    by jimstaro on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 04:50:59 AM PST

    •  And why not make it a requirement that ammo (0+ / 0-)

      be purchased through a state ammo/gun store? If states can do it with alcohol (and note there ARE dry counties across the country), why not ammo?

      202-224-3121 to Congress in D.C. USE it! You can tell how big a person is by what it takes to discourage them. "We're not perfect, but they're nuts."--Barney Frank 01/02/2012

      by cany on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 12:57:52 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Responsibilty (5+ / 0-)

    This was a part of a report header on yahoo:

    since he destroyed the hard drive before leaving for the school.
    Who's to say he was the one that destroyed the computer, and why not the growing obsessiveness with small arms and a very well stocked arsenal and paranoid mother didn't for other reasons and that's what set him off!! We might never know but one thing is coming very clear, he wasn't the only one that should have been getting help, another mark about the mother's paranoia, she herself should have sought out and she certainly could afford to pay for the help for both!

    Vets On FLOTUS and SLOTUS, "Best - Ever": "We haven't had this kind of visibility from the White House—ever." Joyce Raezer - Dec. 30, 2011

    by jimstaro on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 04:53:46 AM PST

  •  NRA is a hideous organization (9+ / 0-)

    They are literally the front men for the merchants of death.  It's disgraceful that any politician cowers in fear of the NRA.  The time to change is now.  Get these military weapons off our streets.

    "The real wealth of a nation consists of the contributions of its people and nature." -- Rianne Eisler

    by noofsh on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 04:56:14 AM PST

    •  Everyone keeps pointing to their (5+ / 0-)

      really poor record of getting people elected, but their main business is LOBBYING for less gun laws and they're very successful at that, needless to say.
      The NRA is one of the most powerful lobbies in the US.
      That needs to change.

      “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

      by skohayes on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 06:13:54 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  The NRA is a gun lobby for (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        skohayes, tb mare, Laconic Lib, cany

        gun manufacturers, not gun owners, although they bill themselves as speaking for the preservation of gun ownership rights.  When almost 60% of an organization's members do not agree with an organization's stated position, it's evident that the organization's political priorities are more closely allied with outside interests than those of its own membership.

        "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

        by SueDe on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 06:46:36 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Oh, absolutely (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          tb mare, Laconic Lib, cany, SueDe

          That's been true for years- the manufacturers donate the vast majority of money to NRA for lobbying and electioneering.
          The members are drones, nothing more.

          “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

          by skohayes on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 07:30:03 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  This is it. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wintergreen8694, Sue B, belle1

    I have always wondered - and dreaded - what it would take to move the apathy of most people to absolute outrage.  This was it.  We can never, never let this fade away as a drive to action.

    "I'll be more enthusiastic about encouraging thinking outside the box when there's evidence of any thinking going on inside it." Terry Pratchett

    by kiwiheart on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 04:57:24 AM PST

  •  What about mandatory insurance, (6+ / 0-)

    starting at the manufacturer and continuing to the gunowner. The underwriters would force more regulations than the government.

  •  President Obama said it was the fourth time he (6+ / 0-)

    has had to speak to the nation about a massacre by gunfire.

    The NRA is our modern Baal-Moloch, demanding endless human sacrifice--more and more blood.  How long until the next massacre?  Is someone buying death weapons and ammo even this morning, planning for another murder?  

    The Aztecs ripped beating hearts out of their human sacrifices.  They went to war against other nations to obtain enough prisoners to sacrifice.  

    We have to shame and stop the NRA.  No one elected that body to anything.  

    "Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

    by Diana in NoVa on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 04:59:03 AM PST

    •  Yes (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      koNko, skohayes, wintergreen8694, tb mare

      On the local news last night they were talking to a gun store owner here in Maryland. He said sales have been through the roof since last week's horrific events. Every single person they talked to said they were stocking up before Obama comes to take their guns.

      Somewhere there is a unhinged person watching that thinks this is the big one and its time to fight back.

      •  And that's why an assault weapons ban (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        tb mare

        won't work now- there are already millions of them out there in private hands and thousands more being sold every day because of this incident. I talked to a law enforcement officer yesterday who told me people are buying them now, thinking they'll be worth a lot more once a ban is put in place
        Tax the crap out of the ammunition, ban high capacity magazines, ban internet sales.

        “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

        by skohayes on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 06:26:07 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Make it an ownership tax on assault wepons... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          belle1, skohayes

          If you own or try to sell one you must posses a valid tax certificate/registration.  Huge fines for un-documented possession.  Make it cheap and easy for the first year to give responsible owners a break the big bump in registration tax and fines and penalties for unregistered.

          I screwed up with a careless uprate so I'm a "No Rate" pariah. When I give a comment "+1 n/t", please consider that a recommend. (That's my workaround to participate here). DK haiku, one complete thought in a title field. Roar louder! NR since 3/7/12.

          by Josiah Bartlett on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 06:36:07 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Just what we need (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          skohayes

          Every Tom, Dick, and Harry illegally selling  their assault weapons on the black market once they're banned.

          What we need is a ban on future sales, a mandatory license/registration for current owners that must be renewed annually (with tax penalty), a government buyback program, and excise taxes on the ammunition for the guns that makes them undesirable.

        •  No, sko. We also outlaw magazine capacity. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          skohayes

          When people cite the 2 hundred million-3 hundred million guns in this country, realize most people don't own a dozen. They just don't. The killer's mother is an example. She owned at least five that we know of. A good friend of mine sold her long guns recently keeping only one hand gun. But I do know people that purport to own dozens. Limit ammo and ultimately you limit use.

          But otherwise, I agree tax the crap out of ammo AND anything that shoots more than five bullets or something. Ban high capacity magazines/clips/drums. Ban internet sales.

          Those are part of a long list. And states can also do these things.

          Meanwhile, right to carry, both concealed and open, is being challenged by people all over the country because they believe they should be able to do this. Well, I believe I should be able to break the speed limit when desired. We'll see how this goes.

          I can tell you this, though; there are some rational minds and some lost souls over at open carry dot org. I spent a great deal of time there last night reading. THAT was eye opening.

           

          202-224-3121 to Congress in D.C. USE it! You can tell how big a person is by what it takes to discourage them. "We're not perfect, but they're nuts."--Barney Frank 01/02/2012

          by cany on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 01:07:18 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I can only imagine (0+ / 0-)

            Here in Kansas, they passed a concealed carry law a few years back and immediately, you started seeing stores, schools and businesses putting up signs that said no guns allowed.
            I would prefer open carry to concealed carry, if I had to make a choice.

            “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

            by skohayes on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 03:30:08 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

  •  The NRA did really well in 1994 (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JML9999, Laconic Lib

    I am not buying this "paper tiger" argument.

    No right-wing money organization did well in 2012, so the NRA's 2012 percentage doesn't mean shit.

    They might still be dangerous.

    Some one should volunteer to poke them with a stick.

  •  thanks for this roundup (3+ / 0-)

    especially for link to NY Daily News, not known for being liberal, which I would have missed, since the only thing i read there is Juan Gonzales' column.  

    Join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news and views written from a black pov—everyone is welcome.

    by Denise Oliver Velez on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 05:04:25 AM PST

  •  NRA, meet your Waterloo (7+ / 0-)

    You are going down this time, Wayne LaPierre. You and your minions consistently and constantly misrepresent the Second Amendment to stockpile assault weaponry in homes, in stores and other places that are inappropriate. You've had much success.

    That time is over. Darn shame it took 20 young children do die to stir up enough outrage in this country. But the people have finally had enough. We don't like living in streets turned into killing fields. People in the cities have long grown tired and fearful of going to the damn gas station for fear of getting caught in the crossfire of idiots using their right to bear arms. Yeah, the gang bangers have the same rights as Adam Lanza, even though supposedly the current law restricts both types. Naw. There is no reason those guns should be sold to the public. Period.

    You can hide, Wayne. Your tactics about not commenting until all the facts are know ain't working. We're onto you. Heck, scrub your social media sites. Doesn't matter. We won't forget this time. You and the murderous policies you have pushed will be obliterated. History will not be kind to you or your sycophants.

    Buh-bye, Wayne. We won't miss your sorry ass either.

  •  If Lawrence O is correct they pay the NRA head (0+ / 0-)

    $1MM annually so no wonder they have so little money to throw around

    The 1st Amendment gives you the right to say stupid things, the 1st Amendment doesn't guarantee a paycheck to say stupid things.

    by JML9999 on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 05:10:23 AM PST

  •  The NRA is silent because it's gone dark and (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skohayes

    in all likelihood has been busy calling Grover, Karl, the other usual suspects, and the winger congress folks who took their campaign money to threaten them, to hide behind them, the folks they control.  The mode in congress will shift from tool to shield.  Watch for it.

    Building a better America with activism, cooperation, ingenuity and snacks.

    by judyms9 on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 05:13:49 AM PST

  •  Shame is a great weapon (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    csuchas, skohayes, Sue B, tb mare

    The NRA should get the same treatment that child rapists get. When the organization becomes a pariah organization decent people will leave it.

  •  The NRA, Norquist, ALEC, Republican Party (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    koNko, DRo, Stude Dude, tb mare

    Right-wing media and religious organizations are all tied at the hip. I hope many enterprising investigative reporters point out the associations and the money trails.

    "Lets show the rascals what Citizens United really means."

    by smiley7 on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 05:18:29 AM PST

  •  What I find ironic is the wingnuts who insist (9+ / 0-)

    that they need semi-automatic rifles/pistols with oversized ammo clips because the 2nd Amendment states something about "protection from a tyrannical government", or some such dribble.  These are the same people that insist on a huge defense budget and a massive armed military.

    They think the 30 round magazine will defend them against my Marine Corps.  Yeah...and Rush will vote (D) and Grover will raise taxes.

    Semper Fi!

    "With all due respect, that's a bunch of malarky". - V.P. Joe Biden

    by Taxmancometh on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 05:25:10 AM PST

  •  I checked every major gun manufacture's site (7+ / 0-)

    Result: Zero mention of Sandy Hook.

    Cowards. Money-grubbing parasitic cowards.

    But I did find this helpful information:

    Bushmaster - Our World

    Home Defense

    With a Bushmaster for security and home defense, you can sleep tight knowing that your loved ones are protected. Bushmaster offers everything you need to ensure the safety of you and your family. Our high-quality pistols, carbines, and rifles are extremely reliable, easy to shoot, and include lightweight carbon models that are perfect for women. And with their intimidating looks, all Bushmasters make a serious impression. Any gun will make an intruder think. A Bushmaster will make them think twice.

    REGARDING VARYING FIREARMS REGULATIONS

    Learn more about the sales of guns. READ MORE

    Pick of the Month [The Bushmaster Carbon 15 9mm Semi-Automatic]

    Recreation

    Pick of the Month

    Whether your idea of a good time is a Saturday afternoon at the sandpits or day at the range with your pals, a Bushmaster can seriously increase your fun factor. With its long-distance accuracy, unlimited adaptability, and semi-automatic firing capability, a Bushmaster can really get your adrenaline pumping. In fact, you'll never look at a can or target the same way again.

    Who knew that practice could be this much fun?

    What about my Daughter's future?

    by koNko on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 05:30:09 AM PST

    •  And I believe bump firing allows this weapon (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      koNko

      to be used as an automatic? That's just dandy.

      202-224-3121 to Congress in D.C. USE it! You can tell how big a person is by what it takes to discourage them. "We're not perfect, but they're nuts."--Barney Frank 01/02/2012

      by cany on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 01:12:04 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  say anything (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wintergreen8694, Laconic Lib

    ..so supporting common sense policy on gun regulation is " a run on the Second Amendment "...way to perpetuate, Weigel...

  •  Walmart pulls Bushmaster assault rifle off online (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    csuchas, skohayes, Laconic Lib

    Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us

    Imagine my shock and disappointment.

    Fortunately though there are plenty of other worthy considerations should anyone be in desperate need for an assault rifle or tactical shotgun. Here are some of the other options:

    Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us
    Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us

  •  Looks like there's not much desire to address (6+ / 0-)

    the issue, only part of which is gun regulation.

    Lots of fist-shaking, little honest conversation, and, it seems,  some serious amnesia.  An assault weapons ban was in place from 1994-2004, and the law included a ban on high-capacity magazines.  See this assessment of the ban in a report to the
    National Institute of Justice:

    http://www.sas.upenn.edu/...

    A couple of conclusions:

    Should it be renewed, the ban’s effects on gun violence are likely to be small at best and perhaps too small for reliable measurement. AWs were rarely used in gun crimes even before the ban. LCMs are involved in a more substantial share of gun crimes, but it is not clear how often the outcomes of gun attacks depend on the ability of offenders to fire more than ten shots (the current magazine capacity limit) without reloading.
    Nonetheless, reducing criminal use of AWs and especially LCMs could have non-trivial effects on gunshot victimizations. The few available studies suggest that attacks with semiautomatics – including AWs and other semiautomatics equipped with LCMs – result in more shots fired, more persons hit, and more wounds inflicted per victim than do attacks with other firearms.  Further, a study of handgun attacks in one city found that 3% of the gunfire incidents resulted in more than 10 shots fired, and those attacks produced almost 5% of the gunshot victims.
    So, a good thing, but not going to make a big difference.

    Somebody posted here yesterday that folks get up in arms when a bunch of white kids get killed, but don't give a damn about all the children of color getting killed on a daily basis.

    I think the poster got it wrong on motivation, but latched on to a real kind of tunnel vision, the kind that causes people to avoid traveling by air even though it's far more dangerous to drive than to fly on a commercial airliner.

    For a better summary of the problem than I can write:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

    Americans kill each other far more frequently than people in other developed western nations, including those with large number of guns in civilian hands. A ban on assault weapons and high capacity magazines will make a difference, but won't change the underlying problems of a violent and deadly society.

    LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

    by dinotrac on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 05:36:25 AM PST

    •  Complicated, for sure.. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dinotrac, Sue B, Laconic Lib, cany

      ..but  making even a small difference, regarding actual lives, is not nothing.

    •  Surprisingly, I agree (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dinotrac, tb mare, Laconic Lib, cany

      At this point, millions of gun owners have assault weapons and thousands more are being sold on the internet as we speak.
      The assault weapons ban during the Clinton years was easily skirted around by gun manufacturers, who changed a couple of parts, and voila, it was no longer an "assault rifle".
      However, if we ban the sale of more, that's a start. We also need knowedgeable people involved in the legislation to stop the loopholes that the NRA lobbied for the last time.
      Ban the high capacity magazines, tax the ammunition sales, and make owners carry insurance on each and every gun.
      It is quite possible that this is a violent society because we glorify guns and killing in so many different ways.

      “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

      by skohayes on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 06:35:01 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Dino - what are LCM's? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dinotrac, cany

      "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

      by SueDe on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 07:07:14 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  My apologies to Buffalo Springfield: (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Laconic Lib
      Paranoia strikes deep
      Into your life it will creep
      It starts when you're always afraid
      You step out of line, the man comes and takes (your guns) away.
      There is nothing "our side" can do to take away the paranoia that guides the actions of those people who stockpile guns and rush to buy more when a well-publicized massacre occurs.  Whether their paranoia is directed at the government, the liberals or their fellow citizens, the only ones who might be able to lessen their paranoia are the people who find profit in feeding it.  

      "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

      by SueDe on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 07:18:44 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  how did we get to the point where 30 shot clips (6+ / 0-)

    and .50 caliber sniper guns are seen as essential expressions of our freedom and national heritage. simple; lobbyist money, apathy, cowardly elected officials and a history of violence.

    next case.

  •  you don't need my bona fides (6+ / 0-)

    I'm getting really tired of the assumption that only gun owners can be taken seriously in this conversation. Each politician (see the Durbin quote above) has to lay out the fact that s/he is a gun user to establish "bona fide" before laying out a critique.

    Tell me something: have you ever been president? No?
    Then you can't critique Bush's or Obama's performance in that job.

    Have you ever run a war? No?
    Then you can't critique the fact that we're at war or how those wars are run.

    And so on.

    We are feeding into the NRAs narrative every time a murder control advocate stops to justify his comments by pointing out his/her own gun use.

    STOP IT!

    I have never owned or fired a gun, and I hope to continue being able to say that until I die of old age at 120. That doesn't stop me from knowing that we are living in an asylum and the inmates have the keys.

    THIS is the price of our freedom? Never-ending mass murder? Mountains of dead children? Fear of leaving one's house?

    Why do I need to own a gun to see the insanity in that?

  •  A story of altuism in a Holiday season of horror. (0+ / 0-)

    This piece from the NY Times gave me a bit of hope;

    http://www.nytimes.com/...

  •  Gun Control (0+ / 0-)

    We naive liberals who think that gun control laws are ever going to change in this country are seriously delusional. Ever since Martin Luther King and Robert Kennedy were assasinated two months apart, we have been trying and failing to have meaningful gun control. It hasn't happened then and it isn't going to happen now.
    While it is extremely sad that innocent children were murdered, this is a nation that really only pretends to care about kids. We really don't.
    Any change will be fillibustered by the opposition or the law so watered down that it will be meaningless.

    •  So we shouldn't try? Is that what you are saying? (0+ / 0-)

      202-224-3121 to Congress in D.C. USE it! You can tell how big a person is by what it takes to discourage them. "We're not perfect, but they're nuts."--Barney Frank 01/02/2012

      by cany on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 01:19:33 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Not the rank and file (0+ / 0-)

    I love this:

    The NRA and the gun lobby are at the core of most of this bloodshed. Not the rank and file. I've spoken to many, many NRA members who share my views on safe and sensible gun laws.
    It's one of the most sensible things people pushing for gun control should remember. MOST gun owners in the US agree that we need common sense gun control. Access should be heavily restricted to rifles that serve no purpose for hunting. High capacity magazines should be illegal. All of this is well and good.

    As a 2nd amendment supporter, if I could impress anything on the Daily Kos community about the gun control debate it would be that your average US gun owner is NOT against gun control! If you keep the "all weapons should be confiscated" argument out of it, you will find large support for gun control on both sides of the spectrum and we can get something passed to put us on the right path.

    Also, please learn your state laws about gun control before entering the argument. Every time someone screams "Automatic weapons should be banned!" you automatically lose all credibility because they already ARE banned. Hell, even in the state of Texas you cannot leave your home with a loaded weapon if you do not carry a Concealed Handgun License. So please educate yourself on your state laws and enter the conversation informed.

  •  You need to be prepared what it will do to privacy (0+ / 0-)

    The right to privacy will change with the implementation of any further gun legislation.

    Undoubtedly some restrictions are going to come out of this event. The most significant change may come to those who take mood-altering prescriptions or have a person with emotional/psychological problems in the home.

    The proposal is likely to be that doctors will be required to report patients to the FBI who are under their care for psychological problems or who take anti-depressants, bi-polar medication or anti-psychotics. Those individuals will be refused permission to purchase or continue to own firearms.

    The anti's want a brave new world and they are likely to get more than they bargained for. Forget doctor/patient confidentiality. Your local gun shop is going to know that your family has 'issues'.

    Is it long before your neighbor will have a hotline to call to report your "abherrent behavior"?  You smoke marijuana?  That is presently an exclusionary event on qualification to buy a firearm...even in states where it is presently legal.

    And, it won't matter whether you intend to buy a firearm or not.  The reporting will be done for everyone, since you "might"  come in contact with a firearm at any time.

  •  Ban concealed weapons (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Laconic Lib

    All weapons concern me, but especially the concealed ones. If people are so proud of their guns, they should display them so those of us who find them offensive can leave the area.

    Of course, they will say displaying their guns will make them a target. So be it, at least unarmed people will be less likely to get shot.

    IMHO, if someone wants to own guns they should keep them in their houses and vehicles. They don't belong in public places.

    •  Do you know how many CCW holders there are? (0+ / 0-)

      Do you know how many crimes have been comitted by CCW holders?

      •  I know one! And he got his permit from his (0+ / 0-)

        Sheriff buddy here in OC, then shot a trespasser (a young woman) who was lost. Then they took his permit away and made him get rid of the Sheriff-like decal on his Jeep--yeah, the one with the yellow color bars atop it.

        Oh, did I mention he's a right wing nut and a racist?

        And I live in a very, very small community. And if you think his adult fascination with police and guns is normal, I beg to differ.

        Do I want him owning another gun? No. He likely does though.

        202-224-3121 to Congress in D.C. USE it! You can tell how big a person is by what it takes to discourage them. "We're not perfect, but they're nuts."--Barney Frank 01/02/2012

        by cany on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 01:25:21 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  As long as TSA is permitted to molest invalids (0+ / 0-)

    There is a place for assault weapons in our society.

    I'd rather go out shooting the real terrorists: people who spy on me, molest me, abuse me and then tell me I can be above the law if I have enough money.

    DailyKos used to be pro liberty, now its a shill echo chamber.

  •  This is an Action Alert from CodePink- (0+ / 0-)

    Please call Senator Reid at 202-224-3542.

    We need more restrictive gun laws---now.

    "If it were up to me, I'd take away the guns."--Cheryl Wheeler

    by lyvwyr101 on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 10:39:15 AM PST

  •  Action Alert momsrising- (0+ / 0-)

    "If it were up to me, I'd take away the guns."--Cheryl Wheeler

    by lyvwyr101 on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 10:59:57 AM PST

  •  We can learn from the anti-abortion movement (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cany

    Think about it: abortion is technically legal, but a practical impossibility in many places.  This is due to suffocating restrictions on the practice of abortion mandated by state law, as well as mass action by anti-abortion activists who make it difficult to provide service by interfering with the operation of clinics.

    I am obviously not advocating violence.  But notice what happened with the Danbury CT "gun show" scheduled for January--enough negative publicity and the venue (a hotel) cancelled in very short order.  

    So, for starters, instead of waiting for Congress to "plug the gunshow loophole,"  let's just start making it impossible for gun shows to happen, wherever possible.

    My gosh, it could even be called "right to life."  

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