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Biden: Use your common sense...who do you trust?

I guess that was a trick question.

Originally posted to justmy2 on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 12:11 PM PST.

Also republished by Social Security Defenders.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (14+ / 0-)

    "Small Businesses Don't Build Levees" - Melissa Harris Perry

    by justmy2 on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 12:11:22 PM PST

  •  So Much For Trust (6+ / 0-)

    "Don't Let Them Catch You With Your Eyes Closed"

    by rssrai on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 12:19:30 PM PST

  •  Did you learn nothing from July 2011? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    gramofsam1

    We JUST watched this movie.  You don't remember how it ends?

    I'll never understand the desire of some progressives to declare defeat.

    Art is the handmaid of human good.

    by joe from Lowell on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 12:23:27 PM PST

    •  I remember how it ended (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      quagmiremonkey, Mr Robert

      With the President's lowest approval ratings of his term and and a national downgrade..followed by an immediate turn to the left for the election...

      well...there is not another election...so maybe you can enlighten us on why July 2011 should be viewed optimistically...

      "Small Businesses Don't Build Levees" - Melissa Harris Perry

      by justmy2 on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 12:49:33 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  So you skipped over the actual deal-no deal? (0+ / 0-)

        During the debt ceiling talks, Obama only put out offers he knew would not be accepted, allowing him to engage in all sorts of public posturing (the cliche then was "putting it on the table") to make himself look reasonable and responsible, and make the Republicans look insane and irresponsible.  None of the proposals that caused all this consternation were even enacted.  In fact, the final deal included a sequester that included exactly none of the benefit cuts that were "put on the table."

        The result of this was the collapse of the Republican Congress's approval and the end of their ability to drive the national political conversation.  They lost the public, and they lost the media, just a few months after their big electoral win.  It's true that his approval rating fell a little, but the opposition's fell a lot more.  In a two-party system, approval is a zero-sum game, so driving down their approval into the single digits was a big political win.

        And here we are, watching Obama play the same game, and people still don't recognize what he's doing.  They're still certain he's actually working towards a deal that includes these benefit cuts, instead of just posturing as the reasonable one and making the Republicans reject his proposals.

        Art is the handmaid of human good.

        by joe from Lowell on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 12:56:01 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  lol (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          quagmiremonkey, Mr Robert, daddybunny
          Obama only put out offers he knew would not be accepted, allowing him to engage in all sorts of public posturing (the cliche then was "putting it on the table") to make himself look reasonable and responsible, and make the Republicans look insane and irresponsible.
          I can't do much but laugh if you  think that was the idea or the appropriate political strategy...

          that is all that I can do...

          "Small Businesses Don't Build Levees" - Melissa Harris Perry

          by justmy2 on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 12:58:53 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  notice the approval of the President while (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            quagmiremonkey

            he was being performing the brilliant political manuever you suggest...LOL

            "Small Businesses Don't Build Levees" - Melissa Harris Perry

            by justmy2 on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 01:05:12 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I'll just quote myself, and enjoy pwning you: (0+ / 0-)
              The result of this was the collapse of the Republican Congress's approval and the end of their ability to drive the national political conversation.  They lost the public, and they lost the media, just a few months after their big electoral win.  It's true that his approval rating fell a little, but the opposition's fell a lot more.  In a two-party system, approval is a zero-sum game, so driving down their approval into the single digits was a big political win.
              Do you need me to explain what a zero-sum game is, son?

              Art is the handmaid of human good.

              by joe from Lowell on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 01:11:53 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  your belief in 11th dimensional chess is (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                quagmiremonkey, Mr Robert

                pretty amazing...but to each their own...

                I literally am laughing at how naive your comments are coming across as...but hey...you do you...

                and your statement of son is many things all at once, but others can make their own judgements...starting with your assumptions of gender...

                LOL...

                "Small Businesses Don't Build Levees" - Melissa Harris Perry

                by justmy2 on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 01:28:25 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  A Poison Pill isn't 11-dimensional. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  gramofsam1

                  It's Politics 101.  You don't seem to be quite up to that level, poor thing.

                  Some would say that "naive" would better describe your argument that a politician's public statements during a negotiation should be taken at face-value, rather than viewed as posturing for political effect.

                  Just an FYI: your forced laughter is exactly the same as that I endured when I predicted the passage of DADT after the 2010 tax deal; exactly the same as when I explained what Obama was doing in July 2011; and exactly the same as when I predicted that the troops would be out of Iraq in December 2011.

                  Yes, it's so terribly naive of me to do a better job than you understanding what's happening in the world.

                  Keep on laughing, son.  Maybe no one will notice that you're wrong.

                  Art is the handmaid of human good.

                  by joe from Lowell on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 01:34:07 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Funny....last year you were saying (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Mr Robert

                    there are no public statements...don't believe the leaks...now you are saying don't believe the leaks and public statements...they are little more than negotiation in public...no offer leaked or presented is real...

                    LOL...

                    funny thing...all of the leaks last time turned out to be real...

                    funny thing...they were accepted..and the President raised his offer because of it...

                    for someone pretending to be all knowing in terms of politics...you have been wrong an awful lot...

                    me...not so much...and I have a diary record to prove it...including specifically my take on grand bargain negotiations last year...

                    but...please proceed Joe

                    "Small Businesses Don't Build Levees" - Melissa Harris Perry

                    by justmy2 on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 01:56:22 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Last year, I was saying the leaks were posturing. (0+ / 0-)

                      And I have been proven right.

                      I don't know where you got the idea that I said the leaks weren't real.  They were real, as in coming from the White House.  They were the posturing they were engaging in, just like this latest posturing.

                      You're free to look through what I've written to find examples of me saying the leaks weren't real last July, but you aren't going to find any.

                      Art is the handmaid of human good.

                      by joe from Lowell on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 03:15:48 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  leaks were posturing, yet documents are not out (0+ / 0-)

                        Proving the offers were real.  

                        And yet you still insist they were posturing.  Can't do muh but shake my head.

                        The only thing I can think at this point is put cognitive dissonance.

                        "Small Businesses Don't Build Levees" - Melissa Harris Perry

                        by justmy2 on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 06:13:53 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                  •  In fact, the Presidents plan was so brilliant (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Mr Robert

                    The Chief Of Staff was fired.

                    I really hope you don't believe the stuff you are writing.  Really, I don't.

                    Go read showdown or woodwards book.  It will be clear this wasnt all part of the "plan". It is silly to pretend it was.

                    "Small Businesses Don't Build Levees" - Melissa Harris Perry

                    by justmy2 on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 02:23:23 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  There are none so blind as those who will not see. (0+ / 0-)

                      I knew there would be no deal to cut benefits last time, and events proved me right.

                      I haven't the foggiest idea why you think anything that happened last your supports your position.  Everything turned out like I said it would, and exactly the opposite of what you thought.

                      Art is the handmaid of human good.

                      by joe from Lowell on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 03:17:29 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  you called a downgrade, Daley being kicked (0+ / 0-)

                        Out, Obama changIng course after insisting on a grand bargain.

                        Yeah right.   You really this site has a archive right?  You realize the my sig all of last year was about how it was stupid to attempt to bargain with Boehner?  

                        I get it.  You want to think that you had some insight into how things would work out because obama actually failed.   What you seem to be unwilling to admit is that those o us that said don't focus on austerity and focus on jobs last summer because there was no possible deal with boehner were proven 100% correct because the guy that walke the president into that nonsense was fired.

                        Id love to hear your attempt to justify how and why Daley was fired if everything worked perfectly.  

                        You are not making sense. Really.  And the worse part is you think you are.

                        "Small Businesses Don't Build Levees" - Melissa Harris Perry

                        by justmy2 on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 06:10:16 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

          •  Enjoy all the forced laughter you need. (0+ / 0-)

            I'll keep enjoying being right.

            Art is the handmaid of human good.

            by joe from Lowell on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 01:09:42 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

  •  President, Pelosi, Reid (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    big mouth, quill, daddybunny

    Pray tell us how you expect to win in 2014 without the support of progressive activists on the ground, cause many will bail if you fuck with Social Security?

    "Lets show the rascals what Citizens United really means."

    by smiley7 on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 12:24:47 PM PST

  •  Missing a poll option (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    raboof, quill

    how about "none of the above"?

    Hay hombres que luchan un dia, y son buenos Hay otros que luchan un año, y son mejores Hay quienes luchan muchos años, y son muy buenos. Pero hay los que luchan toda la vida. Esos son los imprescendibles.

    by Mindful Nature on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 12:27:27 PM PST

  •  Neither- I trusted Bush (3+ / 0-)

    We should have privatized it so we all could've become rich in late 2007.

    Wow- We missed out. Think of what Goldman could've done for us.

  •  And the answer is . . . . . . (0+ / 0-)

    neither.

    ----- GOP found drowned in Grover Norquist's bathtub.

    When it all goes wrong, hippies and engineers will save us. -- Reggie Watts

    by JimWilson on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 08:47:30 AM PST

  •  Yup. Trick Question...! (0+ / 0-)

    I don't trust any of them to do what we elected them to do:  What's best for We The People collectively.

    Since 2000 the "people" who have benefited most are the richest 1% and corporations (who are now have legal personhood and are allowed to use money as "free speech" - gee, thanks you nucking futz numbskulls in $COTU$!).

    I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

    by NonnyO on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 12:50:25 PM PST

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