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Driving on my way to work this morning a neighbor that I don't really know was walking his dog heading towards me on the sidewalk. I slowed down and as I did, a pit bull attacked his dog. It was vicious. The pit bull was about 50 pounds heavier than the owners dog. The man and two dogs spilled out in front of my car (our new Jeep), I swerved into the oncoming lane and stopped to see if honking would help distract the pit bull and watched as the man pulled out a gun, took it out of his holster, and shot the pit bull twice. I heard a something hit the car and I didn't want to stay and get out because of the pit bull and now a handgun and proceeded to the police station.

I discovered a bullet hole in our car! One of the bullets ricocheted off the pavement and went through the rear passenger side bumper. We still don't know what happened to the bullet.

I found out the pit bull was killed and the neighbor is being brought up on charges because he wasn't defending himself - just his dog. The incident took place in front of the pit bulls' owners which included their small children. (Why a family would own a pit bull is a mystery to me their instincts take over too easily and their instinct is to attack).

I am shaken and very stirred right now. The images of the pit bull attacking that dog and a man shooting a gun in my neighborhood will remain with me for years.

Maybe we should self deport gun owners to the lower southern states.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Teen Fatally Shot By Friend Over Paintball Game (12+ / 0-)

    Just one more headline from today ...

    The number of incidents of gun violence in this country is shocking

    I truly hope that the conscience of this country has finally been so shocked by the Newtown massacre that there is enough public sentiment to finally do something

    "I want to keep them alive long enough that I can win them to Christ," - Rick Warren, Professional Greed Driven Scumbag

    by josephk on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 07:46:42 PM PST

  •  Wow! What a day you've had! (6+ / 0-)

    And just driving to work in the morning.

    I'm glad no people were hurt, at least.

    Thanks for sharing your experience.

  •  Yep. And obviously this responsible gun owner (5+ / 0-)

    was storing both weapon and ammo correctly and safely. Right?  Right?

    Yet another responsible gun owner who probably believes that he should be able to own, carry etc. what ever he wants because he CAN.

    A 16-year-old witness who was hanging out with the boys told detectives that Williams and the other boy began to wrestle around jokingly after arguing about a paintball game.

    The accused shooter then retrieved a semi-automatic shotgun, walked into the kitchen area and pointed it at the witness, according to the arrest affidavit.

    The witness said he heard the gun click, then saw the accused shooter take a shotgun shell from a drawer, load the gun and point it at him again. The witness said he then heard another click, according to the affidavit. [source]

    202-224-3121 to Congress in D.C. USE it! You can tell how big a person is by what it takes to discourage them. "We're not perfect, but they're nuts."--Barney Frank 01/02/2012

    by cany on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 08:00:17 PM PST

  •  I don't know. (15+ / 0-)

    A Marauding pit bull seems like a valid reason to have a gun. So what if the little dog tried to protect his owner? It's what they do. My dog is completely friendly and has never made a bad move on anyone. She is always contained and never loose. Some people don't like massive amounts of pug loving. I respect that.

    I have no sympathy for the pit bull or its owners.

    •  I have sympathy for the dog (5+ / 0-)

      having those owners. And I agree. If one came after my dog I don't know what I would do. But I would hope I might check to see who or what was around me. This neighbor did not.

      Kos is Kind, Smart and Important.

      by Stop Pandering on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 08:08:56 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I understand your sympathy (5+ / 0-)

        a little. But a large majority of these pit bulls, american bulldogs, etc., are defective and not honest. I know lots of people advocate for them, but by and large there is a large percentage of them out there that have no business existing. If you can't control them or accurately predict their behavior in any given situation, they should be put down.

        Supplant your neighbor's dog, with a child. In that equation you can understand why he wouldn't check first.  Dogs are part of the family.

      •  ironically... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ScienceMom, FloridaSNMOM, Joieau

        concealed carry advocates would consider this a good reason for concealed carry- protecting yourself and your dog.  A loose pit bull on the attack is a not safe situation for a dog owner walking their dog- or a runner.  People have died or been significantly mauled in that situation- I know of two personally-that is why there are leash laws.  The pit bull may have been attacking others over a period of time and caused the dog owner to walk out armed in this fashion.  Missing from your story is a sense of the location- rural, urban- sidewalks or on the side of the road?  I suspect this neighbor will not be charged although you should probably ask that your car is repaired- you deserve to be made whole from this action.

        It is the reality of shooting that there are ricochets and missed shots that cause damage.  Collateral damage is real too.  That is why shooting in cities is so dangerous.  And shooting fighting dogs is a particularly dangerous situation.

        Despite the large number of good pit bulls, there is no denying the specific pit bull in this story was a menace.  If I am out walking and see any stray dog I am very cautious and my husband has been known to carry a walking stick to chase off threatening dogs.  It is very important to be aggressive before they attack and to inform yourself of what to do to avoid dog attacks.    

        You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad. Aldous Huxley

        by murrayewv on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 04:43:18 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Is it just that this was a (0+ / 0-)

          [presumably suburban] neighborhood with probable gun discharge restrictions that the guy is being charged? I ask because I live way, way out in the boonies. We have dogs, cats, ducks, goats and grandchildren who visit often. Hunters abandon their starving hounds in the forest every hunting season, and those starving hounds will kill and eat anything that moves. We have had to shoot more than one, and also occasional rabid coons or skunks.

          Never thought twice about it, given that we are protecting our property, livestock, pets and persons. But since there is no 'neighborhood' and no police force, if it were illegal to shoot an attacking or rabid animal we'd never know about it. I've always thought attacking and/or rabid animals were an excellent reason to HAVE a gun.

    •  Pit Bulls are bred for one thing. Killing, They (7+ / 0-)

      are like the assault rifle of the dog world.  You cannot bring one into England or Ireland, so I have great sympathy for the person who shot the dog that was attacking his dog.  Sorry about the ricochet, but if there ever was such a thing as a justified shooting, this was it.  Would you have been more comfortable watching the pit bull kill the innocent dog that was just walking down the street.  

      Sure, people will say that pit bulls are lovely dogs, but they are in reality thug fashion accessories and illegal dog fight accessories.  No other reason for having a pit bull.

      And it feels like I'm livin'in the wasteland of the free ~ Iris DeMent, 1996

      by MrJersey on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 09:42:15 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  He probably saved the kids (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        suesue, radarlady

        from death and maiming, or their friends, and the parents form the criminal charges and liability that would arise from that incident.

      •  Teddy Rooseveldt owned two. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        gustynpip, ScienceMom

        So which was he, a thug or a dog fighter?

        Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

        by FrankRose on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 11:40:57 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  And who's to say that, ... (3+ / 0-)

        once the pitbull was finished mauling the little dog, it wouldn't have turned on the owner next?  But some people will insist that the owner should have just stood there and watched his friend die at the end of his leash rather than carry a gun and be prepared for whatever evil might come out of nowhere.

        "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

        by Neuroptimalian on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 12:21:41 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  I'll have to tell that to my wife (4+ / 0-)

        Who has two. Friendliest dogs you'll find, they play with my granddaughters
        (I have an australian cattle dog, myself)

        but they are in reality thug fashion accessories and illegal dog fight accessories.
        You're wrong

        Happy just to be alive

        by exlrrp on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 03:47:23 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Let us hope your grand daughters stay safe, but (0+ / 0-)

          IMHO, it is like allowing them to play with a loaded Uzi.  All people that I know who have them have stories about having to break up dog fights involving their pit bulls.  If they were not tough, nasty, and unpredictable, why are they the fashion accessory in every center of gang activity in our nation's urban settings?  

          And it feels like I'm livin'in the wasteland of the free ~ Iris DeMent, 1996

          by MrJersey on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 09:15:02 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Pit bulls are dog aggressive (0+ / 0-)

            not human aggressive. Yes, there are incidents where these dogs have attacked people, but the most dog bites in the US are not from pit bulls, but from Labrador Retrievers.
            They are not "tough, nasty and unpredictable" any more than any dog that is not properly trained and handled from birth.

            “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

            by skohayes on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 09:32:53 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  Good lord (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        exlrrp, ScienceMom

        A lot of wrongness in this post. Not even going to attempt a save.

        “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

        by skohayes on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 03:50:30 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Not all pit bulls are dangerous. (6+ / 0-)

    Like with any animal, knowing the breed and training them properly is key.

    I have a cat that menaces other animals. Viciously. I understand that, and let people know about that before they bring their dogs and cats into my home.

    That being said, what a totally criminal and dangerous thing your neighbor did. That is no "responsible gun-owner". That man is a menace.

    I can't imagine how you must feel. I hope they throw the book at him. I also hope that he is made to pay for the repair of your new Jeep.

    Get your goddamned guns out of my church. This means you.

    by commonmass on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 08:12:29 PM PST

  •  This sweet pootie who loves new people (9+ / 0-)

    attacked two dogs this Summer: one belonged to Bill in Portland Maine and the other to the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court (no joke).

    If you own an animal like that, as I said above, it is important to train and handle it well. I no longer allow friends to bring their pets to my house, and when walking the cat (yes, he follows us around like a dog) I am careful to do it on my own property now.

    Get your goddamned guns out of my church. This means you.

    by commonmass on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 08:17:14 PM PST

  •  If I had a gun and a dog attacked my dog (17+ / 0-)

    I'd shoot it, too. I feel sympathy for the dog that was not properly trained or controlled, but my instinct would be to protect my dog. She is a tiny thing and always on a leash.

    I hardly even take her for walks because she has been attacked or almost attacked every time I have tried. One time an idiot woman had her unfriendly rottweiler tied up to a tree in her yard on a 20' leash. I couldn't see the rotty behind the car in the driveway and when we got past the car the rotty came tearing out of the yard and attacked my dog on the sidewalk. My dog was only a couple months old at the time. The woman was trying to get control of the rotty, but the leash was so long that she couldn't. I had to drag my dog into the middle of the street to get it far enough away from the rotty to stop the attack. It scared the crap out of me and then the stupid woman said "she was just trying to turn her over to smell her belly." If I had a gun I would have shot her damn rottweiler, you better believe it.

    •  With a car stopped not 15 feet away? (5+ / 0-)

      And with the woman right there trying to stop her dog?

      You'd likely be in jail right now for involuntary manslaughter.

      People talk like this all the time, but look at the ABC TV program What Would You Do when they did their program on people with guns reacting to a situation. They almost all failed.  Guns simply aren't safe 99% of the time.

      Liberalism is trust of the people tempered by prudence. Conservatism is distrust of the people tempered by fear. ~William E. Gladstone, 1866

      by absdoggy on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 08:33:10 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  The only way I would have a gun (11+ / 0-)

        is if I had serious training to use it first. I don't have a gun, nor do I want one, but I wouldn't trust myself with one unless I really felt like I knew how to use it.

        Yes, there is an issue here that this gun owner didn't use proper precaution or procedure. That's a huge issue.

        What bothers me in this story is that the man was charged because he was only protecting his dog and not himself. That's the point of my comment. I would also protect my dog if another dog attacked her.

        In the case I mentioned, the woman was completely unable to get control of her dog. The dog was too big for her to control, she couldn't even get a hold on its leash. I had to drag my 6 pound puppy outside the range of the 20' leash while a 80 lb rottweiler was trying to hurt her. I had to drag her into the middle of the street where we could have both been hit by a car. I don't even know how she survived, other than I reacted really quickly and practically ran out into the street dragging her full force with the leash that was around her neck. I had to basically strangle my dog to get her to safety and the woman was no help.

        I wouldn't want to shoot a dog, or anything else, but I am saying my instinct would  be to protect my dog, who is properly trained and on a leash whenever in public, the way all dogs should be. I feel bad for dogs that get killed because their owners don't properly train or control them, I really do, but I wouldn't want to sacrifice my dog to one.

        •  In fact (6+ / 0-)

          Just to add one more thing.

          The only reason I have ever even considered getting a gun is because I have had so many close calls trying to walk my dog. I don't know if this is an AZ thing or what, but about 75% of the time when I have tried to walk my dog we have encountered loose dogs or aggressive dogs that the owners can't control.

          Dogs are the most dangerous animals in the U.S. 31 people were killed by dogs last year. I believe the average is 25 - 30 a year. Compare that to, for instance, bears who kill less than one person a year on average.

      •  There's no such crime as ... (0+ / 0-)

        involuntary MANslaughter against an animal.  

        "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

        by Neuroptimalian on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 12:30:44 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  I logged in just to tell you how much of a/an (5+ / 0-)

    (Insert pejorative here) you are.  Not only did you make a completely baseless claim about an entire breed of dog, but you actually had the audacity to say

    Maybe we should self deport gun owners to the lower Southern states
    I'm assuming you live in a northern state, where of course, per your insinuation, only small dog owners that hate guns live, right?  Oh yeah, except the guy that had the aggressive dog and the gun!!  Brilliant!!

    Seriously, the amount of ignorance that spews from other so called liberals on this site astounds me some times.  You have reduced not only an entire breed of dogs, but an entire region of the United States of America to a caricature and a stereotype.  Your narrow-minded views and your regionalism have made the great amount of sympathy I felt for you all but disappear.

    Actually, because I am an actual open-minded, thoughtful, and empathetic liberal I'll say that I'm sorry for your experience this morning and I'm happy to hear that at least no one was injured.  

    Seriously, don't make ignorant, regionalist statements.  

    Sincerely,

    A third generation bleeding heart, anti-gun, liberal, from Texas.

    "Kindly go render the fat in your head in a large kettle of boiling water. Thank you." - Bumblebums -7.38, -6.46

    by balancedscales on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 08:31:12 PM PST

    •  Frankly, this is more about being menaced (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JBNathan85, AaronInSanDiego, marykk

      by a guy with a gun and the unintended consequences of discharging a firearm in public under any circumstances.

      I think there is a different way to make your point. I made it in a different way, without resorting to ad hominem and while also expressing some understanding for the horrific thing the diarist witnessed on the way to work.

      Get your goddamned guns out of my church. This means you.

      by commonmass on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 08:38:48 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I actually logged in just to tell you what a/an (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PavePusher, exlrrp

    (Insert pejorative here) you are.  Not only did you make a completely baseless claim about an entire breed of dog, but you actually had the audacity to say

    Maybe we should self deport gun owners to the lower Southern states
    I'm assuming you live in a northern state, where of course, per your insinuation, only small dog owners that hate guns live, right?  Oh yeah, except the guy that had the aggressive dog and the gun!!  Brilliant!!

    Seriously, the amount of ignorance that spews from other so called liberals on this site astounds me some times.  You have reduced not only an entire breed of dogs, but an entire region of the United States of America to a caricature and a stereotype.  Your narrow-minded views and your regionalism have made the great amount of sympathy I felt for you all but disappear.

    Actually, because I am an actual open-minded, thoughtful, and empathetic liberal I'll say that I'm sorry for your experience this morning and I'm happy to hear that at least no one was injured.  

    Seriously, don't make ignorant, regionalist statements.  

    Sincerely,

    A third generation bleeding heart, anti-gun, liberal, from Texas.

    "Kindly go render the fat in your head in a large kettle of boiling water. Thank you." - Bumblebums -7.38, -6.46

    by balancedscales on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 08:32:03 PM PST

  •  The guy with the firearm was negligent (14+ / 0-)

    if he is going to carry in public places.  One never knows when the sidearm is going to be needed or used, and failing to take ricochets into consideration is inexcusable.  The RKBA logo has been criticized for depicting frangible hollowpoint pistol rounds.  This is exactly the type of round any person with a CCP should be using, especially in an urban environment.  They shatter on impact with a surface, and ricochet damage is either eliminated or minimized.  If I was a betting person, I would wager he had full metal (copper clad) rounds.  That is just asking for trouble.

    As for the dog, I am a woozle person, and hate to see any dog injured or killed.  On the other hand, if I had been in that situation, I would probably have done the same thing unless I was carrying mace, a stun gun or telescoping baton.  A pit bull is by nature and breeding a fighting dog, and their powerful jaws can exert as much as 325 pounds per square inch of bite force.  That is enough to crush bones in a human, let alone a small dog.  That is much greater than a full grown German Shepherd, whose bite has been measured at 238 PSI.  We had a strange and rather large dog break his way into our back yard by lunging against the boards of the fence until he broke one.  Our Trooper met him at the hole in the fence and bit one of his front legs off with one bite.  The stray dog bled out and died immediately.  This guy walking his dog may not only have been protecting his own dog, but his own life as well had the pit bull turned on him.  

    His biggest mistake was using non-frangible ammunition.  There is no excuse for that.  

    The general who wins the battle makes many calculations in his temple before the battle is fought. The general who loses makes but few calculations beforehand. - Sun Tzu

    by Otteray Scribe on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 08:34:30 PM PST

    •  Negligent or worse (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Otteray Scribe

      the part of this that caught my eye was that it happened in the presence of children.  

      If you think you're too small to be effective, you've never been in the dark with a mosquito.

      by marykk on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 05:32:05 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  (5+/)) Wuz about to say that too. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Otteray Scribe

      Although hollowpoint shrapnel can scatter a bit.

      "Double, double, toile and trouble; Fire burne, and Cauldron bubble... By the pricking of my Thumbes, Something wicked this way comes": Republicans!!. . Willkommen im Vierten Reich! Sie haben keine Bedeutung mehr.

      by Bluefin on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 06:08:53 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  True, dat. However, (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        rockhound

        I would rather get hit by a fragment than the whole full metal jacket round.  Most likely, that Jeep would have had a scratch in the paint instead of a hole in the door.  A state trooper friend of mine shot at a fleeing felon, hitting the wheel rim of the crook's car.  He did not realize until somebody pointed out to him he was bleeding.  There was a tiny bullet fragment embedded in the tip of his nose, where the bullet shattered on impact and one piece flew back and hit him in the nose.  

        The general who wins the battle makes many calculations in his temple before the battle is fought. The general who loses makes but few calculations beforehand. - Sun Tzu

        by Otteray Scribe on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 06:19:39 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  I don't think I have come across (6+ / 0-)

    a pit or AB that I would trust. When I was younger I had a Husky. She was smallish. She was extremely well trained. I was at an outdoor party in my car, which was a low sports car with the window open and two pitbulls approached at my face level menacing. My Husky came up from the ledge in the back and slashed their throats right before they reached my face and killed them both instantly in one smooth motion. Thankfully she had the reflexes and the judgement to allow me to keep my face.

    •  Any dog is dangerous with the wrong owner (9+ / 0-)

      I think the problem with pitts and similar dogs is that they attract a certain type of owner. I don't blame the dogs, I blame the human owners who think having a dangerous dog is a point of pride. People train these dogs to be aggressive.

    •  I sort of agree (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Otteray Scribe, commonmass, suesue

      I don't think it is a problem with the dogs themselves, but these breeds seem to attract a certain type of owner. I don't blame the dogs, I blame the human owners who think that having a mean and aggressive dog is somehow a matter of pride. They turn these dogs into killers on purpose.

      •  Oops, sorry for double post (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        WheninRome, Otteray Scribe, PinHole

        My first comment hung up and then I refreshed and it was't there so I wrote another one and then the first one popped up. weird.

      •  I think there is a problem with the dogs. (3+ / 0-)

        If you are going to have a potentially dangerous or powerful dog it's completely different than having a pet.

        My husky was extremely dangerous obviously. But she was trained as a puppy and conditioned by only me. She would stay where I told her to, for as along as I wanted. She was a proper robot almost. But not a pet really. Huskies are killers, naturally.

        •  that was the most amazing story... n/t (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          WheninRome, murrayewv

          "There's nothing serious about a plan that claims to reduce the deficit by spending a trillion dollars on tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires." - President Obama

          by fhcec on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 11:57:27 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Huskies are killers naturally? I've never (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          murrayewv

          heard that statement about huskies before and I've certainly never seen it in any of the many, many huskies I've known over the years.  Yes, they'll chase and catch rabbits and such if they can, but so will most breeds that are large enough and fast enough.

          I'd say your husky was the exception.  Huskies are not generally thought of as a "protector" dog as pit bulls, rottweillers, etc. are.

          "If you trust you are not critical; if you are critical you do not trust" by our own Dauphin

          by gustynpip on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 02:45:05 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Real Huskies are. (0+ / 0-)

            My aunt had some gems. They were sweeties. But they were wolfen. Sometimes they'd disappear and come back a week later. Mine killed a groundhog at 3 months old. Maybe she was unusual. I didn't have her for protection, it just worked out that way.

            •  Real Huskies? Is that anything like Real (0+ / 0-)

              Americans?  LOL.

              No, I've known and know numerous Real Huskies, including many used for racing.  They are quite definitely not naturally killers, except for things like rabbits.  Or e., I'm su

              "If you trust you are not critical; if you are critical you do not trust" by our own Dauphin

              by gustynpip on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 12:53:33 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  Huskies are super-protective of their family. (0+ / 0-)

          Nothing wrong with that.
          And great dogs.

          "Double, double, toile and trouble; Fire burne, and Cauldron bubble... By the pricking of my Thumbes, Something wicked this way comes": Republicans!!. . Willkommen im Vierten Reich! Sie haben keine Bedeutung mehr.

          by Bluefin on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 06:07:22 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  There is an observable correlation between... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        commonmass, gustynpip, ScienceMom

        ...the way owners treat their dogs and the likelihood of attack (or, at least, of a fatal attack, which is the only sort for which there's reliable data). The odds of a dog being involved in a fatal attack grow greatly if the dog is male, not neutered, and chained. Those correlate with the characteristics of most dogs trained to fight.

        But let's bear in mind that pit types are among the most popular dog breeds in the country. There are millions out there, and attacks are statistically very rare. Most are loving, well adjusted, loyal and docile (all characteristics that the breed was historically known for).

        "Speaking for myself only" - Armando

        by JR on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 09:33:14 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Horrible! So sorry. Just want to add love for the (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Christin, commonmass, skohayes

    wonderful and loving pit bulls around the world that want and need our love.

    “liberals are the people who think that cruelty is the worst thing that we do” --Richard Rorty Also, I moved from NYC, so my username is inaccurate.

    by jeff in nyc on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 08:55:24 PM PST

  •  why add that last sentance to a decent diary? (8+ / 0-)

    is it ok to shoot strangers cars or dogs if they're southern? Do you think Newtown happened down south?

    America could have chosen to be the worlds doctor, or grocer. We choose instead to be her policeman. pity

    by cacamp on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 09:14:06 PM PST

    •  cacamp: didn't you know? It's OK to hate the South (10+ / 0-)

      and especially good to hate Texas and Texans here at DKos.
      The last sentence in this diary is just another bow on that package.

      LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

      by BlackSheep1 on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 09:22:50 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I lived 20 years in Texas. I don't hate it. (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        suesue, Cordyc, fhcec, Otteray Scribe

        I just don't recognize it anymore.

        Get your goddamned guns out of my church. This means you.

        by commonmass on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 10:06:16 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  commonmass: remember Ann Richards and (4+ / 0-)

          Jim Hightower?

          We're trying to get it back to that good.

          LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

          by BlackSheep1 on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 10:32:07 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I do indeed, and Barbara Jordan, too. (4+ / 0-)

            Hell, I MET Barbara Jordan.

            Look. I tried to move back to Texas a couple of years ago. I didn't recognize it. I met some great Kossacks in the process, too, including mjbleo and others (though I was staying up in Austin with my brother, and his wife, and my mother, and his bi-racial kids).

            I came of age in Texas. I LOVE Texas. I KNOW Texas, even though I'm a carpetbagger from New England. Texas, for me, was an exposure to something much bigger than Boston. I took it in. My particular fondness for Houston seems to be nearly unmatched, because apparently NO ONE loves Houston. But I do, and I know it like the back of my hand.

            I voted for Ann Richards, thank you very much. I was also a precinct captain.

            I'm a very old 43, soon to be 44. I want to live in a place that embraces me. Maine is doing that. Texas rejects me. I never knew that until I went back, and saw how very much Texas has changed. They don't want me there. I don't want to be there. I want to live out the last third of my life in a place where fighting for my rights actually benefits me.

            I weep for Texas, and miss it very much. I wasn't born there, but I love it. It's just not my job any more.

            Get your goddamned guns out of my church. This means you.

            by commonmass on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 10:43:30 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I was born here, 53 years ago. (5+ / 0-)

              I'm trying to stop the idiots from ruining it even more. Not getting paid a dime for sweating blood, but ... yeah. It's still my job though, even when the best I can manage is not to give up. I've met Jim Hightower, and Roger Staubach, and liked 'em both. Met w, too. He made my back teeth itch.

              I love Houston too, based on a grand total of twelve days' and nine nights' acquaintance ... spread over, lemme see, seven years, must be, now.  There's a flippin' OCEAN out there! With beaches, and dolphins in the bay you can watch for free off the Galveston ferries (so much cooler than down at Padre Island!) and JSC/NASA, and ...   a ton of Texas history, that big white stone statue of Sam Houston threatening to walk out in front of you on the Interstate coming in from Huntsville, the pine trees taller than B-52D tail fins, some of Texas' most breathtaking state parks that don't involve canyons ... Plus Cajun food on the same menu with Mexican ... Only, it kills you to walk anywhere in the summer, the tap water smells like rotten eggs and the traffic would scare God ...

              I love El Paso, I adore San Antonio, and Austin ... oh, Austin.
              ... and the parks. South Llano, Palo Duro, Caprock Canyon, Copper Breaks, Big Bend, McKinney Falls, Lockhart, Atlanta, Hueco Tanks, Franklin Mountains, Monahans Sandhills, Fort Davis  ... I want to see Brazos Bend (yeah, that's on my bucket list) someday, too.

              But I live in Lubbock. Home of Texas Tech, helmed by the only guy who ever beat George W Bush in a public election (so they tell me; I think Al Gore did a better job in 2000, but we both know what happened in court).  Lubbock's about as bad as it gets, deep-bleeding-scarlet Bush-loving proud TEA-party  Klan-Klavern "Kony 2012" central.

              I wasn't a precinct captain for Bill White in 2010 -- I was the full-time volunteer, working in a 42-county area.  Phone bank, sign delivery, GOTV rally, catering arranger, IT support, errand-runner ...you name it ...

              Texas will outlast me. I want the Texas my grandkids grow up in to be as good as the one I learned to love in my childhood and adolescence: Mark White in the governor's chair and Democrats in the Lege and Texans like Sam Rayburn and LBJ serving us nationally....

              LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

              by BlackSheep1 on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 11:21:04 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  I will tell you something else: (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            BlackSheep1, skohayes

            That time I spent with my Kossack brother in Austin, we went out in the car someplace after a rain storm. I said "It reminds me of Houston a little, the smell". "Yes", he said, "there's a certain smell when rain hits Texas dirt. Different from the farm (in MA) though".

            Yep.

            It is very difficult to love a place where you know you are not wanted. It's especially difficult when you know they are shitting on the legacy of LBJ.

            Get your goddamned guns out of my church. This means you.

            by commonmass on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 10:51:48 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  commonmass: they revel in so doing. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              commonmass, murrayewv

              The good Lord willing and the devil don't care my kids will revel in doing so to their heroes' "legacy". We'll bit Ricky and the Lege. We will. I don't know how, but we've got to, or we're going to make Mississippi look like paradise....

              LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

              by BlackSheep1 on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 11:23:21 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  My brother, Kossack "bastrop" is there. (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                fhcec, BlackSheep1

                He'll help. I can't help you any more. I have to help myself. Part of that was getting the hell out of Texas.

                Get your goddamned guns out of my church. This means you.

                by commonmass on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 11:38:22 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  ten years or less and Texas turns blue (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                BlackSheep1

                It's already becoming 'swingy' and democrats have taken over the big cities. Soon Hispanics, progressives and decent humans will be a voting majority in the dawn of a new era.

                America could have chosen to be the worlds doctor, or grocer. We choose instead to be her policeman. pity

                by cacamp on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 04:20:23 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Once we have it, can we keep it? (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  cacamp

                  Please? I hope we never have another embarrassment of a governor like Rick Perry, let alone w.

                  LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

                  by BlackSheep1 on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 04:30:07 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

      •  (5+/0) (0+ / 0-)

        "Double, double, toile and trouble; Fire burne, and Cauldron bubble... By the pricking of my Thumbes, Something wicked this way comes": Republicans!!. . Willkommen im Vierten Reich! Sie haben keine Bedeutung mehr.

        by Bluefin on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 06:11:47 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  And this is why we advocate the use of..... (4+ / 0-)

    hollow-point or frangible bullets for defensive use.

    Much less likely to overpenetrate or ricochet.

    •  Oh please, no ricochet because they explode on (5+ / 0-)

      impact.  They were used in Newtown and that is why the families never got to even see their loved ones again.  They were literally blown away as the ammo exploded.  Those kids and teachers were ID by photo since they wanted to spare the families the shock of seeing what had actually happened to the bodies of the loved ones.

      A group of Emergency Physicians just came out yesterday to add a recommendation that this type of ammo be banned.  If you are hit by this type of ammo there is very little even a trained trauma surgeon can do to save you because the damage is so wide spread within the body.

      Congressional elections have consequences!

      by Cordyc on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 10:15:35 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  No... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        rockhound

        They don't explode. That is incorrect.

        "A lie is not the other side of a story; it's just a lie."

        by happy camper on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 07:03:20 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  No, they don't explode. (0+ / 0-)

        And where did you hear of their use in Newtown?  Citation, please?

        I doubt it had much to do with the type of bullet.  Shoot anything that small multiple times with anything and you do terrible damage.  Type of ammo used is entirely irrelevent in this.

        Did you know that only about 1 in 9 people who are shot actually die?  Where one is shot, and how many times, and time to initiate medical care, plays a much bigger factor in survival

  •  You saw a heck of a lot of detail in an incident (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    happymisanthropy

    On the sudewalk as you were driving down the street.

    I'm having a hard time visualizing how all this happened without your being seriously distracted from the task at hand: driving a car.

    Guns can be lethal. But cars are frequently (more frequently, in pure numbers) lethal as well. If events occurred as you describe them (and why would we have reason to doubt you?) then please, I beg you, even when there are insanely distracting events occurring on the sidewalk, don't become as dangerous as the situation you're observing.

    © grover


    So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

    by grover on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 09:43:37 PM PST

    •  This is something I did think about. (2+ / 0-)

      I always slow down to 5 mph anytime I see pedestrians walking along the sidewalk.
      I do so because I visualize the folks (often kids) tripping and falling into the street or animals getting off the leash running in front of my car.
      I do so to try to minimize the damage my vehicle can do.
      And yes I was distracted by the confrontation and the gun use. Both avoidable.

      Kos is Kind, Smart and Important.

      by Stop Pandering on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 12:36:54 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Pit bulls are okay if raised right. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    commonmass

    If you didn't like the news today, go out and make some of your own.

    by jgnyc on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 11:21:18 PM PST

  •  liability (0+ / 0-)

    Charge the shooter for the damage to your car.

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