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President Barack Obama responded to petitions calling for changed gun laws in a Friday morning video, identifying bans on assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition clips as priorities.
“I can’t do it alone,” he added. “I need your help. If we’re going to succeed, it’s going to take a sustained effort from mothers and fathers, daughters and sons, law enforcement and responsible gun owners, organizing, speaking up, calling their members of Congress as many times as it takes, standing up and saying enough on behalf of all our kids. That’s how change happens.”

Originally posted to Laura Clawson on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 08:51 AM PST.

Also republished by Repeal or Amend the Second Amendment (RASA) and Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  He's right. (24+ / 0-)

    I don't know anybody who votes on gun control but I know people who vote anti gun control.

    If you look at Brady and AWB it had support of even a few republicans and then also rural dems.

    But when it finally became law it was the best tool ever invented to get rural voters to throw democrats out of office because while the majority may favor some gun control the pro gun people are such a huge, strong, grassroots organization that can get hundreds of thousands to call their congressmen at a single email.

    Obama is correct that in order for gun control to pass in the first place, and actually to be sustained (ie every rural dem who votes for it gets tossed out the the republican majority reverses it, Dodd Frank and Obamacare) there has to be a grassroots coalition that makes gun control as important an issue for them as no gun control is for the others.

    •  The most telling part of the speech, imo. We need (0+ / 0-)

      to act.  Not wait for Obama -- or anybody else -- to do it for us.  

      He could have been talking about climate change or cutting defense or changing the food system or any of the other big, unsolvable problems we're so tired of not solving.

      He really can't do it alone.  But he can do it with us, if we step up.  That's how change happens.

    •  The Australian System. 1996. Very effective. (0+ / 0-)

      Australian Labour MP Kelvin Thomson has sent us an e-letter.  He lists the practical legal changes that his country undertook to eliminate gun massacres.

      There has been no recurrence of mass attacks on strangers. Also, suicides and murders with guns have fallen by more than half.

      After 35 people, including small children, were killed in the Australian island State of Tasmania in April, 1996, the Australian Police Ministers Council agreed to a national plan for the regulation of firearms.  The Plan is known as the National Firearms Agreement and its terms include:

      •Banning military style automatic and semi-automatic firearms;
      •Limiting the availability of non-military style semi-automatic rifles and shotguns to primary producers, professional vermin exterminators, and a limited class of clay target firearm users;
      •Introducing registration for all firearms, including longarms;
      •Grouping firearms into 5 broad licensing categories;
      •Requiring all licence applicants to establish a genuine reason for firearms ownership;
      •Requiring all licence applicants other than those applying for category A firearms to establish that they have a special need for the particular category of firearm;
      •Requiring that permits be acquired for every new firearm purchase, with the issue of a permit to be subject to a waiting period of at least 28 days to enable appropriate checks to be made;
      •Stricter storage requirements for all firearms; and
      •Requiring all sales to be conducted by or through licensed firearms dealers.

      Democrats can adopt this series of measures, band together seeking passage into law, and claim to have statistical and historical proof that it works to protect children and adults.

      Australia has done the hard work for us.

      The technical problem is separating America's 50,000 paranoid schizophrenics from guns. This specific organic mental illness -- with hallucinations, "irresistible" voices, delusional ideation -- is the top priority and it takes a massive effort to make that happen. We know how to do it.

      Beating the NRA and the NRA-backed baby killers will be the hard work.

      "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

      by bontemps2012 on Sat Dec 22, 2012 at 04:01:47 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I am not impressed. (6+ / 0-)

    This did not call for playing nice.

    Our president decided to try to play the "Reasonable disagreement" card.  This on a day when the NRA basically declared that we need MOAR GUNZZZZ!!!

    This wasn't the time for this.  This was the time for leadership, not "Make me do it."  You can't wait for the parade and then jump in front of it.  AGAIN.

    I don't blame Christians. I blame Stupid. Which sadly is a much more popular religion these days.

    by detroitmechworks on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 09:07:32 AM PST

    •  He will need GOP votes to pass any bill on gun (29+ / 0-)

      control much like Bill Clinton before him. Thats a fact.

      "Rick Perry talks a lot and he's not very bright. And that's a combination I like in Republicans." --- James Carville

      by LaurenMonica on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 09:09:12 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  And with the Pushback from the NRA (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        aimwand, lyvwyr101, tb mare

        and the non-stop propaganda that will be fed to us until the NEXT shooting incident, that isn't likely to happen anyway.

        Our "National Conversation" has already morphed into a discussion of video game violence, since that's what the senate is gearing up to go after once again.

        IMHO, this was a wasted opportunity.  Again.

        I don't blame Christians. I blame Stupid. Which sadly is a much more popular religion these days.

        by detroitmechworks on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 09:13:12 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  NRA will always push back and they did so even (12+ / 0-)

          when Bill Clinton passed the Assault weapons ban. And it passed with the help of many GOPers at the time.  

          "Rick Perry talks a lot and he's not very bright. And that's a combination I like in Republicans." --- James Carville

          by LaurenMonica on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 09:25:49 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  In order to make that argument (6+ / 0-)

          it seems that you have to ignore all of the other plans coming out of Congress to focus on just the one.

          http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

          Rockefeller's bill comes before any legislation in the Senate to look at the role guns play in violent incidents, although both Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) and Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-N.J.) have announced plans to introduce gun control legislation in the next Congress. In the House, Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-N.Y.) and Rep. Diana DeGette (D-Colo.) are pushing a bill mirroring Lautenberg's that would ban the manufacturing of high-capacity magazines.
          That article pretty well demolishes Rockefeller's proposed study as a waste of time. Calling the opportunity wasted before anything happens doesn't seem particularly constructive, though.

          There is nothing so ridiculous that some philosopher has not said it. -- Cicero

          by tytalus on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 09:26:06 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I'd like to believe that. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            lyvwyr101

            And I hope I'm wrong and you're right.

            But once again I don't think that excuses the president for passing the buck to the people and claiming that he can't do anything.

            I don't blame Christians. I blame Stupid. Which sadly is a much more popular religion these days.

            by detroitmechworks on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 09:31:57 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  isn't it interesting that (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              tytalus, lyvwyr101, v2aggie2, wader

              you fault him for calling for public pressure after we've had 3 days of calls for public pressure on him over a bill never written, a deal never made.  

              Apparently it 's more socially significant to oppose the President than it is to support him in a cause we seem to be in agreement on.  

              Democrats have a big tent and no ability to work toward common goals, Republicans can move mountains with nothing but angry old white guys?   Great way to move the country left, or something.

              I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

              by I love OCD on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 10:34:21 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  So... what, the president doesn't listen? (0+ / 0-)

                At least to his base?

                He completely ignored the public pressure and went with his own decision. The reason it failed was because the Republicans were too stupid to see a gimme when it's staring them in the face.

                Now, he wants us to pressure him MORE, even though there have been non-stop calls for gun control from his base for years?

                It's an excuse to be "Reasonable" with psychopaths.  

                I don't blame Christians. I blame Stupid. Which sadly is a much more popular religion these days.

                by detroitmechworks on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 10:44:53 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  You missed the part about who to pressure. (0+ / 0-)

                  Presidents sign bills into law, or not, they don't write them or vote on them in Congress.  The pressure needs to be on a Congress terrified of the NRA.  They need to be aware of   of inaction from US, fuck the NRA.

                  Or punish him for whatthefuckever and maybe a hospital nursery will be the next target.  Temper tantrums on the Left usually result in bad shit for the Left.  I wonder if we'll ever get that.

                  I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

                  by I love OCD on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 03:38:06 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

        •  it's only a wasted opportunity (4+ / 0-)

          if we don't avail ourselves of it.

          what lies at the nexus of gun violence?  poverty, education, mental health and guns.

          the NRA will only get their knickers all atwist over guns.  if we push anti-poverty stimulus, increased education funding and expanded mental health coverage as the antidote to gun violence, it gives the GOP a real sophie's choice.

          they can't do nothing and they're not about to piss off the NRA; hell, half of them are crazy enough to agree that what we need is guns in every school.  

          so we use this golden opportunity to push liberal policies we all love and want. because it's one thing to obstruct for the sake of obstructing; it's another entirely to obstruct remedies to gun violence in the current climate.  and at least the NRA wouldn't give a fuck, since their precious isn't being targeted.  who knows...they might be so relieved at that, they climb on board to save face!

          Please don't dominate the rap, Jack, if you got nothin' new to say - Grateful Dead

          by Cedwyn on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 10:15:25 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Actually, the NRA would oppose pretty (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            lyvwyr101

            much any policy that would promote peace and prosperity for people.

            Chaos drives sales for them and if you didn't see that in this press conference, go back and watch it again.

            Paranoia, fear and threats of danger all help to increase their sales numbers.

            That is why the NRA in its current iteration with its current leadership should not be allowed a seat at the table.

        •  It's the guns--period. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Eikyu Saha

          "If it were up to me, I'd take away the guns."--Cheryl Wheeler

          by lyvwyr101 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 10:37:49 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  How ridiculous (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        aimwand, MPociask, lyvwyr101

        He can't get even get the republicans to agree to have the tax on the extremely rich go up even a little--he's never going to get approval of gun control from this House.  

        They like guns even more than they hate taxes on the rich.

        "To recognize error, to cut losses, to alter course, is the most repugnant option in government." Historian Barbara Tuchman

        by Publius2008 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 10:14:03 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Exactly (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lyvwyr101

      His framing is pretty terrible too.  He spends the first part of the video conceding the argument.  Stop playing defense!  You have a chance to shape people's opinion, and you get tripped up over "Both sides are reasonable."  I am glad he's supporting a (limited) ban on assault weapons, and a ban on high capacity clips.  But that isn't even the bare minimum - the 94 assault weapon ban was so full of holes and designed around attachments to guns, as opposed to the guns themselves, that it was completely toothless.  It should never be used as a new framework.  I don't care about "military style" guns, I care about guns that are capable of massacring people.  

    •  Especially since- (0+ / 0-)

      there's been another shooting-

      http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/...

      "If it were up to me, I'd take away the guns."--Cheryl Wheeler

      by lyvwyr101 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 10:37:03 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Tell me who to write to, I will. (5+ / 0-)

    My petition has 3 signatures.  Me and 2 other people.  We might have a problem.  

    Is there the will to do this?

    My unfriended friend sent out a picture of a baby advocating NO gun control.  Did she realize how bad I think that is. NO she doesn't.  She feels bad about the collateral damage.  And I kind of doubt she even has a gun.  But she will not help with this.  Well I unfriended her.  so there.

    •  So 58,720,700 voted for Obama in the election. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JML9999

      And 24,997 can't put there name on a gun control petition.  That's not that many people.  It's not a commitment. It doesn't cost anything.  I'm thinking this one might be lost.

      Of course it might just be a terrible idea.  But no one has really shown me that yet.  There has been a few cranky 'that won't works'.  My snappy come backs should have convinced them to at least sign.  But they won't.  

      I have to come up with the perfect plan singlehandedly before anyone will join me.  That's gonna work.  We are all gonna nit pick one another's plan and the NRA is gonna steam roll us.

      Not a square to spare.

      •  their. damn. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JML9999
      •  have been damn damn. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JML9999
      •  Not the same thing (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        salamanderempress, 88kathy

        Voting for Obama meant watching TV, reading newspapers, forming and opinion, going out and doing the physical job of voting.  Any or all of that.  For some people, it meant  being on websites like this one, reading online sources, blogs, Facebook, tweets, and so on.  But not all of them.

        Signing an online petition means being able to navigate the web, know where to go, know how to do sign in, log on, sign up -- and not being afraid for your privacy in doing so.

        I'll do that.  My husband won't.  My father and step-mother probably don't know how and trying to walk them through it from halfway across the country (assuming they were interested) would be a nightmare.  So you can't assume that just because millions of people VOTED for Obama that means that millions of people are online and ignoring your petition.

        In addition, how many petitions is yours competing with?  Did you search on "gun control" and "assault weapons" and "guns" and "ammunition" and "high-capacity magazines" and "Second Amendment" and "2nd Amendment" before your wrote your own petition? Are you fragmenting effort rather than helping to gather it?

        Online petitions are a great idea, and I'm glad the President has committed to addressing those that meet a very modest 25,000 signature threshold.  But allowing anyone to submit a petition means a lot of them will vanish without a trace, drowned out by louder, better written, broader, narrower, more persuasive or better publicized competition.  Complaining and suggesting we're all a bunch of indifferent dolts (granted, my words, not yours) is not the way to make friends and influence people -- especially not if you want them to do something for you.

        History should teach humility and prudence, but America doesn't seem to learn. I've never seen a virgin who loses her innocence so often. -- Gordon Wood

        by stormicats on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 10:27:08 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Other petitions have already reached (0+ / 0-)

        the threshold and surpassed it.  But what do they get?  A nice thank you letter.  

        We need more than petitions.  We need to get all of the GOP politicians on record THIS VERY DAY, to make sure they have their s**t flung back in their faces during the next election.  

    •  AOL-the web service (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Annalize5

      provider just came out in favor of gun control.

      These groups are pushing hard-

      DemandAPlan-

      National Organization for women-

      Ultraviolet-

      CodePink-

      momsrising-

      Brady Campaign-

      These people are committed--"No" is not an option.............and I sincerely believe change is comin'...........

      Now is the time to jump on this hard---with both feet.

      I voted for the President---and I like the President---but I do not need ANY  President to tell me how to feel about guns--or to help me enact meaningful sane gun control laws in the country where I live.

      I live here---I--too---have a responsibility---and I will be pushing as hard as I can---for this.

      The NRA is trying hard to defend the indefensible.

      Shame on them.

       Protect children---not guns.

      "If it were up to me, I'd take away the guns."--Cheryl Wheeler

      by lyvwyr101 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 10:55:52 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Interesting... (3+ / 0-)

    he didn't ask for any of our help in gutting social security.

    •  He had heard, apparently, we didn't want it cut (0+ / 0-)

      so he wasn't terribly interested in out opinions.

      Now that we got him re-elected....

      The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

      by xxdr zombiexx on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 10:06:38 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  i didn't realize Obama's "offer" (6+ / 0-)

      ...was accepted by the Teabags, passed by the House and Senate and signed into law. silly me.

      "An inglorious peace is better than a dishonorable war." -Mark Twain

      by humanistique on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 10:08:36 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  and math didn't realize (0+ / 0-)

        that 3% over 10 years is "gutting."  silly math!

        Please don't dominate the rap, Jack, if you got nothin' new to say - Grateful Dead

        by Cedwyn on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 10:16:23 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  good old Cedwyn... (0+ / 0-)

          it's only something like 90$ a month.  No big deal right?

          Unless you one of the many people who rely on EVERY LAST PENNY.

          Is there no end to your Obama worship?

          •  dunno where you got $90 (0+ / 0-)

            http://money.cnn.com/...

            For Social Security beneficiaries, the effect would barely be felt in a one-year period. In most years, chained CPI differs from the other inflation measure very little -- only by about 0.3 percentage points, according to the Social Security Administration's chief actuary.

            This year, for example, that would shave about $4 a month off the cost of living increase for the average Social Security recipient. Currently slated for a $21-dollar-a-month increase, the average Social Security recipient would instead receive a boost of only $17 a month.

            is there no end to your inability to focus on the topic and not me?

            Please don't dominate the rap, Jack, if you got nothin' new to say - Grateful Dead

            by Cedwyn on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 11:47:08 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  misleading... (0+ / 0-)

              yes, the one year differences are small, but take that 5$ a month over 20 years, and you're looking at 100$ cuts for the oldest, weakest, and most vulnerable citizens.

              Why are you defending this?  Do you really think this is a good deficit reduction plan?  More SS cuts than military cuts?  If Boehner proposed such an outrage you wouldn't stand for it.

    •  Damn, that's lying crap. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      I love OCD, Matt Z

      "Gutting Social Security" is the Big Lie these days.

      "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

      by bontemps2012 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 10:19:32 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Even more interesting that he (7+ / 0-)

      didn't gut Social Security but we now have enough outrage stirred against him that Kossaks are willing to trash gun control in order to teach him a lesson.  I wonder who benefits when Progressives self-destruct over non-bills and non-agreements?

      I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

      by I love OCD on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 10:40:08 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  No, he could do it alone. (6+ / 0-)

    Executive order placing a moratorium on semi-auto and large magazine sales.  Let them challenge it.  It's a political winner at the very least.

    "To recognize error, to cut losses, to alter course, is the most repugnant option in government." Historian Barbara Tuchman

    by Publius2008 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 10:03:23 AM PST

    •  I think that's where we're headed (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Publius2008

      Maybe drop that bomb during the Xmas break. That would be gutsy.

      •  Should have done it the day after. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        gavrik

        The more he waits, the less he strikes while the iron is hot.

        "To recognize error, to cut losses, to alter course, is the most repugnant option in government." Historian Barbara Tuchman

        by Publius2008 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 10:43:09 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Gutsy is not a word I hear applied to PBO. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        gavrik

        Capitulator and even pre-capitulator, but not gutsy.  He manages to sound gutsy on the trail but then shrivels when it counts.  And I am someone who served as an NTL for OFA, made thousands of calls into Ohio and PA in our weekly phone banks, etc.  But I am feeling pretty much slapped in the face by him in the last few days.  He asked us to contact our Reps. and Sens. to hold strong on safety net programs, then went behind doors with Boener and put SS on the table; he spoke movingly about gun control and now he's asking us to do some more work for him.  It's hard to see the point in pushing our Reps. and Sens. when the Pres is going to give it all away before they even get to vote on it.....

  •  * (12+ / 0-)

    World’s largest firearms supplier sells 3.5 years worth of AR-15 clips in 72 hours

    There is an entire sub-culture stocking up on everything that's about to be regulated.

    They aren't going to be interested in returning them.

    They'll be in violation of the law, you say?

    they don't care.

    The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

    by xxdr zombiexx on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 10:05:24 AM PST

    •  "cold dead hands" and the castle defense (5+ / 0-)

      although a buyback of high capacity magazines could be seen as a stimulus, ignoring that there is an informal economy everywhere

      The ATF raided a gun store in East Windsor, Connecticut on Thursday evening after 26-year-old Jordan Marsh, who you can see in the video above stealing a rifle, was found to have an AR-15 with a scope in his possession at the Hartford Hilton on Saturday. Marsh did not pay for the gun, he simply took it off the rack and walked out of the store without anyone realizing it. Marsh reportedly has a history of mental illnesses and police believe he was planning to carry out an attack "similar" to that of Adam Lanza.

      The gun store, Riverview Gun Sales, is also the same store where at least one of the guns used by Adam Lanza at the Sandy Hook Elementary School shootings was purchased by his mother, Nancy Lanza.

      The AR-15 was banned under the now expired Federal Assault Weapons Ban of 1994.

      Police said Riverview Gun Sales had no idea the AR-15 Marsh stole was missing. Management at the store didn't know about 11 guns that Marsh had allegedly stolen last year until they were notified by detectives.

      Inventory control issues at Riverview Gun Sales have occurred before. In 2007, state police raided a Somers home and found a bunch of stolen guns from the store.

      "It was found that the same Riverview gun store was missing upwards of 30-plus guns," said East Windsor police Detective Matthew Carl.

      yksitoista ulotteinen presidentin shakki. / tappaa kaikki natsit "Nous sommes un groupuscule" (-9.50; -7.03) 政治委员, 政委‽ Warning - some snark above ‽

      by annieli on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 10:19:44 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's a twofer (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        tb mare, gavrik

        Reduce crime, stimulate the economy, which in turn has the biggest effect on reducing crime.  Win-win-win.

        If we have the money to build aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines for our national defense, we have the money to buy back weapons and ammo for our national defense.

    •  note that this is also arbitraging since reselling (0+ / 0-)

      such magazines at gun shows or elsewhere with a mark-up happened during the last ban

      yksitoista ulotteinen presidentin shakki. / tappaa kaikki natsit "Nous sommes un groupuscule" (-9.50; -7.03) 政治委员, 政委‽ Warning - some snark above ‽

      by annieli on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 10:29:05 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Spree shooters (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tb mare, gavrik

      especially young ones aren't collectors. They come to their decision to go on a rampage near to the event, and they react by buying guns and weapons at that time. So while large private arsenals are not a wonderful development, stringent laws banning classes of guns and ammo from sale can still have a deterrent effect, even if it's to drive the spree shooter to the black market.

    •  I'm tired. Tired of the lies, the bullshit... (0+ / 0-)

      No more. They can all fuck off and know this:

  •  Old CW: America is safest with guns legal (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Cedwyn, Annalize5, tb mare

    and marijuana illegal.

    New CW: Marijuana good, guns, maybe not so much....

    The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

    by xxdr zombiexx on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 10:08:57 AM PST

  •  don't forget to read NRA's transcript: (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    annieli, mrblifil, hester, tb mare

    * Join: The Action: End the Bush Tax Cuts for Richest Two Percent * Addington's Perpwalk: TRAILHEAD of Accountability for Bush-2 Crimes.

    by greenbird on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 10:10:07 AM PST

  •  I do find it ironic that (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    annieli, mahakali overdrive

    Obama really is coming after your guns in his second term.

  •  Another shooting 4 dead---3 injured- (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    hester, mrblifil, Annalize5, Hey BB, tb mare

    "If it were up to me, I'd take away the guns."--Cheryl Wheeler

    by lyvwyr101 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 10:12:52 AM PST

  •  A Big Problem.... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    detroitmechworks

    The problem here is that the NRA and its membership are a hugely important political constituency for the Republican Party.  The GOP calculates that it cannot afford to alienate the gun loonies, so I don't think there is a chance that any kind of restrictive gun legislation will make it through Congress.  This is going to require a lengthy and sustained effort over decades, much like the anti-smoking campaign, which succeeded by attaching a social stigma to smoking.  

    "If you own an assault weapon, you must have a small pecker," would be a good place to start.

    How can we have a third party when we don't even have a second party?

    by Eagleye on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 10:14:04 AM PST

    •  Well, where else are they going to go? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      gavrik

      I mean, it's not like the Democrats are going to want to stop banning guns... oh wait...

      Ain't it funny, the Republicans never ignore their base, assuming that the party can't afford to lose their base.  The Democrats consistently ignore their base, assuming that their base can't afford to lose the party.

      I don't blame Christians. I blame Stupid. Which sadly is a much more popular religion these days.

      by detroitmechworks on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 10:17:44 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  As obscene as this sounds (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    gavrik

    nothing will change until the next or the next or the next mass shooting. It took this president four major shootings of national attention to arrive at this place. It may take several more shootings for at least some on the other side to be affected by humanity and empathy.

    NRA is too powerful, the right and even several blue dogs are too loyal to the NRA and, if not are too much in fear of NRA.

    NRA indicated they are ready to throw kitchen and sink and this president lacks the fiber to fight tooth and nail.

    Lastly, this is fundamentally a problem of money in politics. (So is right wing hostage taking tactics on fiscal cliffs). And in the era of citizens united with the lack of will or leadership to address that issue---I see no hope.

    •  good plan...throwing up hands (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      salamanderempress, zizi, michelewln

      good way to honor those who lost their lives in Newtown.

      even after Newtown only 54% of americans support gun control so O is right. the opposition is vocal and well funded and they will be heard. the 54% need to be heard as well.

      there was an assault weapons ban until 2004 when it expired, the AR-15 used in Newtown was banned until 2004.

      Nancy Lanza bought the AR-15 after the ban expired.  If the ban had been renewed, Nancy Lanza cannot buy that gun, twenty beautiful 6-7 year old children and 6 remarkable adults would still be alive.

      The parallel for me would be what MADD has done to reduce deaths due to drunk driving. MADD was a grassroots effort, not Congress or the President making things happen.

      it's becoming real popular for people to blame O for everything. Him needing help on this one? Why not.

      How many mass shootings happened prior to O becoming president? think many people have a higher standard for O than other presidents.

      mittens=edsel. no matter how much money is spent to promote it, if the product sucks, no one will buy it.

      by wewantthetruth on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 10:42:08 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm not blaming Obama for "everything" (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        hester, gavrik

        certainly he is not responsible for the shootings either from the past or under his presidency and he isn't responsible for the gun culture of decades.

        But his leadership has been absent for almost four years on gun control despite regular mass crimes and that is a disappointment. And he did sign that odd law permitting loaded firearms at National Parks. That doesn't make sense either.

        So. all I'm saying is that from what I have seen thus far. I don't have much faith in his leadership on the issue. Also, I genuinely feel he doesn't like to fight. He is not the kind he would fight tooth and nail on too many issues. And certainly no indication so far that he will go all out in influencing legislation on this issue.

  •  The absolute worst thing Obama could say. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    aimwand, FutureNow, Annalize5

    The American people are looking for leadership.  All they get is we have to get along to get stuff done.  It ain't gonna happen and the American people know it.

    "To recognize error, to cut losses, to alter course, is the most repugnant option in government." Historian Barbara Tuchman

    by Publius2008 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 10:16:42 AM PST

  •  We need to refrain, recast the issue (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mrblifil, mahakali overdrive

    It's not about gun control. It's about assault weapons control. We don't want to take away your deer rifle, or duck shotgun, or handgun to protect your self and your family from intruders.

    But we don't want to take away your Bushmaster, Ak-47, and extended bullet clips that hold more than about 7 to 10 bullets. No civilian or hunter needs assault weapons.

    the Republican brand is totally bankrupt.

    by vlyons on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 10:20:11 AM PST

    •  Why? (4+ / 0-)

      It should be about gun control, including handguns.  Handguns are used in most gun crimes.  We absolutely need to do gun control, not ambiguous-scary-sounding-guns control.  Put down firm guidelines - we 100% support the right to hunt, and of self-defense - so we are going to do gun control that respects those rights, and also respects everyone else's right to life.

       

    •  "control" won't work.. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      stormicats

      ask Frank Luntz.

      This has to be about gun violence and what can be done to reduce.

      so many things wrong about "control" even if that is what it is and it's not just semantics.

      mittens=edsel. no matter how much money is spent to promote it, if the product sucks, no one will buy it.

      by wewantthetruth on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 10:46:01 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Much better than the Feudal State of America (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cactusgal

    the NRA is calling for.

    "Do what you can with what you have where you are." - Teddy Roosevelt

    by Andrew C White on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 10:20:15 AM PST

  •  Where to commit? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tytalus, mrblifil

    I am done.  I feel like I need to get more involved in this issue.  Does anyone know of a group the focuses on gun control? I am in CO, either local or national group would be fine.  

  •  i can't believe the defeatism (5+ / 0-)


    you can't get a weapons ban if you don't try.

    "Kossacks are held to a higher standard. Like Hebrew National hot dogs." - blueaardvark

    by louisev on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 10:22:20 AM PST

  •  The President is correct (6+ / 0-)

    The people who need to speak up most forcefully right now ARE gun owners who want to see an end to gun violence. They have the ability to influence Congress in a unique way; by changing their understanding of what we want and what we are willing to vote for and for who.

    What can be done to create reforms, realistically? Mr. Overdrive and I talked a long time about this last night and agreed that it had to come from Leftist gun owners to counter the Right Wing narratives. I won't get into the history of this all, but the conversation was profound in many ways.

    We need to show Congress the values that they are meant to represent as our elected officials.

    Every day, I grow increasingly in favor of stronger and more comprehensive reforms and my convictions grow that these are quite within our grasp if we avoid acting like reactionaries and instead aim for creating a reasonable counternarrative to the NRA's hateful, irrational lobbyist sputum.

    Click the ♥ to join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news & views written from a black pov - everyone is welcome.

    by mahakali overdrive on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 10:23:30 AM PST

  •  Obama wants our help (0+ / 0-)

    I am fine with that but first Mr President we need your help to protect Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid and  for you to stop kissing up to the GOP because in the end the GOP will do nothing to help put an end to the violences that causes the dead of so many children each and everyday. Lets start with making mental health care available for each and every person and then move on from there and see what else we can do to protect our children

  •  This is not a hard technical problem. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mrblifil, hester, stormicats

    Adopt Australia's gun laws which have eliminated 100% of gun massacres since adoption in 1996 with no effect on hunting

    From MP Kelvin Thomson:

    I am aware of the risk of advice from outsiders being unwelcome, but feel compelled to write all the same because

    1. We cannot sit idly by and just allow senseless and avoidable deaths, in this case including 20 small children, to go on, and
    2. Australia’s experience is crystal clear and I believe the United States can benefit from it.

    After 35 people, including small children, were killed in the Australian island State of Tasmania in April, 1996, the Australian Police Ministers Council agreed to a national plan for the regulation of firearms.  The Plan is known as the National Firearms Agreement and its terms include:

    •Banning military style automatic and semi-automatic firearms;
    •Limiting the availability of non-military style semi-automatic rifles and shotguns to primary producers, professional vermin exterminators, and a limited class of clay target firearm users;
    •Introducing registration for all firearms, including longarms;
    •Grouping firearms into 5 broad licensing categories;
    •Requiring all licence applicants to establish a genuine reason for firearms ownership;
    •Requiring all licence applicants other than those applying for category A firearms to establish that they have a special need for the particular category of firearm;
    •Requiring that permits be acquired for every new firearm purchase, with the issue of a permit to be subject to a waiting period of at least 28 days to enable appropriate checks to be made;
    •Stricter storage requirements for all firearms; and
    •Requiring all sales to be conducted by or through licensed firearms dealers.

    Since these laws were enacted in 1996 Australia has not had a repeat of the massacres we had before they came into effect.

    The very worst was a double killing in 2005 where another paranoid schizophrenic stole guns from a club and killed two people.

    If a lunatic needs to break into a gun locker after burgling the building, we can say we've done a decent job at deterring slaughter. Two deaths in 16 years ???? That's America any Thursday morning.

    "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

    by bontemps2012 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 10:27:01 AM PST

  •  Jason Chaefitz:Armed and Stupid (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    annieli

    He has a Glock and spiel

    The 1st Amendment gives you the right to say stupid things, the 1st Amendment doesn't guarantee a paycheck to say stupid things.

    by JML9999 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 10:27:22 AM PST

  •  The fact that so many of these massacres (0+ / 0-)

    have been committed by people on psych drugs has to be addressed to.

    It is sad this is not getting more attention.

    http://www.dailykos.com/...

    Are we ready to address the ridiculous amount of psych drugs in our country as well?

    It's not just guns.

  •  you are the fukken president (2+ / 1-)
    Recommended by:
    mrblifil, annominous
    Hidden by:
    zizi

    There's a lot you can do--from including agency info in gun license checks all the way to declaring the NRA is a terrorist supporting entity.  If not now, when?  The meek don't inherit the earth--but they do prevent children from being as safe as possible.  If BO can't overextend his reach under these circumstances--he should resign.  Sadly, I think we all know Biden would be more politically incorrect--and do the right thing.

    Apres Bush, le deluge.

    by melvynny on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 10:28:45 AM PST

    •  yeah, you are right (0+ / 0-)

      thank god both bushes, clinton and all the others had this gun thing under control as well as all the Congress critters.

      blame it all on O or as Jake Tapper has done, "where have YOU been on this, Mr. President."

      mittens=edsel. no matter how much money is spent to promote it, if the product sucks, no one will buy it.

      by wewantthetruth on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 10:51:26 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  waited (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Annalize5

        We waited to get the perfect president--we worked our asses off--so yes--I have a right to demand action--sort of an emancipation proclamation against weapons of mass destruction.

        Apres Bush, le deluge.

        by melvynny on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 10:55:11 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  perfect? hardly (0+ / 0-)

          but yes, we all have the right to make demands. me, a am a realist and given he is on his own, I think he has and will continue to do a mighty fine job.

          I have been disappointed but then again, I think people have a higher standard for him than others and that probably is not fair.

          mittens=edsel. no matter how much money is spent to promote it, if the product sucks, no one will buy it.

          by wewantthetruth on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 11:19:05 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  fair (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Annalize5

            Our needs are so great--our enemy so local and loco-- if not great now, there will be no tomorrow for so many people.

            Apres Bush, le deluge.

            by melvynny on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 11:22:30 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  oh I think he will go down in history as great (0+ / 0-)

              in light of what he has had to do to get anything done. like having one arm and one leg behind his back.

              not offering any of this as an excuse but I have heard O himself say his is not perfect.

              there was an assault weapon ban in place. no political will to renew in '04 and man people have died because of that. ban renewed, those children would be alive.

              I keep reading people saying "only 2% of deaths due to gun violence is from assault weapons" as if 2% is acceptable. the irony of that statement focuses on the fact that 98% of gun deaths are from handguns which reinforces handguns as a huge problem that something needs to be done about.

              mittens=edsel. no matter how much money is spent to promote it, if the product sucks, no one will buy it.

              by wewantthetruth on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 11:32:46 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

  •  He asked for my help on the fiscal curb, too. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wewantthetruth, Annalize5

    And I gave it to him. I called my senators -I even called the douchebag R congressman I have, though I knew it was a waste of breath. I wrote emails. Then the president caved and put social security out there for cuts. So yesterday and today I've been calling and emailing the White House and my senators. THIS time to ask them to walk that back. I'm tired and disgusted. Yes, gun control is and has been extremely important. But dammit, President Obama, give me something to believe in here. Like a chance that you will actually put something out there with balls, then STICK to it. When I see that happen, I'll start the emailing, writing and calling again. For now, and it makes me sick to say so, you've lost me.

  •  And here's the list of NRA whores. (5+ / 0-)

    With their prices from 2012.

    Fincher, Steve (R-TN)     House     $9,900
    Renacci, Jim (R-OH)     House     $9,900
    Mandel, Josh (R-OH)     Senate     $9,450
    Berg, Rick (R-ND)     House     $7,450
    Cantor, Eric (R-VA)     House     $7,450
    Coffman, Mike (R-CO)     House     $7,450
    Labrador, Raul (R-ID)     House     $7,100
    Thompson, T (R-WI)     Senate     $7,000
    Carter, John (R-TX)     House     $6,950
    Heller, Dean (R-NV)     Senate     $6,950
    Matheson, Jim (D-UT)     House     $6,950
    Allen, George (R-VA)     Senate     $6,450
    Gosar, Paul (R-AZ)     House     $5,950
    King, Steven A (R-IA)     House     $5,950
    Romney, Mitt (R)     President     $5,850
    Barrasso, J (R-WY)     Senate     $5,308
    Dingell, J D (D-MI)     House     $5,000
    Hatch, Orrin G (R-UT)     Senate     $5,000
    Murphy, Tim (R-PA)     House     $5,000
    Rogers, Hal (R-KY)     House     $5,000
    Ross, Mike (D-AR)     House     $5,000
    Runyan, Jon (R-NJ)     House     $5,000
    Simpson, Mike (R-ID)     House     $5,000
    Barrow, John (D-GA)     House     $4,950
    Benishek, Dan (R-MI)     House     $4,950
    Canseco, F (R-TX)     House     $4,950
    Corker, Bob (R-TN)     Senate     $4,950
    Holden, Tim (D-PA)     House     $4,950
    Mourdock, R E (R-IN)     Senate     $4,950
    Rigell, Scott (R-VA)     House     $4,950
    Sessions, Pete (R-TX)     House     $4,950
    Shuler, Heath (D-NC)     House     $4,950
    Stearns, Cliff (R-FL)     House     $4,950
    Wicker, Roger (R-MS)     Senate     $4,950
    Blackburn, M (R-TN)     House     $4,500
    Flores, Bill (R-TX)     House     $4,500
    Manchin, Joe (D-WV)     Senate     $4,500
    Smith, Lamar (R-TX)     House     $4,500
    Terry, Lee (R-NE)     House     $4,500
    Tipton, Scott (R-CO)     House     $4,500
    Griffith, M (R-VA)     House     $4,150
    Amodei, Mark (R-NV)     House     $4,000
    Bartlett, R (R-MD)     House     $4,000
    Bucshon, Larry (R-IN)     House     $4,000
    Chandler, Ben (D-KY)     House     $4,000
    Coble, Howard (R-NC)     House     $4,000
    Griffin, Tim (R-AR)     House     $4,000
    Johnson, Tim (R-IL)     House     $4,000
    Miller, Jeff (R-FL)     House     $4,000
    Yoder, Kevin (R-KS)     House     $4,000
    Bishop, S (D-GA)     House     $3,650
    Cole, Tom (R-OK)     House     $3,500
    Critz, Mark (D-PA)     House     $3,500
    Duffy, Sean P (R-WI)     House     $3,500
    Granger, Kay (R-TX)     House     $3,500
    Schilling, R (R-IL)     House     $3,500
    Upton, Fred (R-MI)     House     $3,500
    Walorski, J (R-IN)     House     $3,500
    McCaul, M (R-TX)     House     $3,150
    Nunnelee, A (R-MS)     House     $3,150
    Bachus, S (R-AL)     House     $3,000
    Denham, Jeff (R-CA)     House     $3,000
    Ellmers, Renee (R-NC)     House     $3,000
    Fischer, Deb (R-NE)     Senate     $3,000
    Gibbs, Bob (R-OH)     House     $3,000
    Graves, Tom (R-GA)     House     $3,000
    Harris, Andy (R-MD)     House     $3,000
    Hensarling, J (R-TX)     House     $3,000
    Hochul, K (D-NY)     House     $3,000
    Huizenga, Bill (R-MI)     House     $3,000
    Hurt, Robert (R-VA)     House     $3,000
    Johnson, Sam (R-TX)     House     $3,000
    Kissell, Larry (D-NC)     House     $3,000
    Latham, Tom (R-IA)     House     $3,000
    LaTourette, S (R-OH)     House     $3,000
    Michaud, Mike (D-ME)     House     $3,000
    Moran, Jerry (R-KS)     Senate     $3,000
    Perry, Scott (R-PA)     House     $3,000
    Ribble, Reid (R-WI)     House     $3,000
    Roskam, Peter (R-IL)     House     $3,000
    Ryan, Tim (D-OH)     House     $3,000
    Schrader, Kurt (D-OR)     House     $3,000
    Sullivan, John (R-OK)     House     $3,000
    Walden, Greg (R-OR)     House     $3,000
    Quayle, Ben (R-AZ)     House     $2,600
    Altmire, Jason (D-PA)     House     $2,500
    Altschuler, R (R-NY)     House     $2,500
    Baca, Joe (D-CA)     House     $2,500
    Barr, Andy (R-KY)     House     $2,500
    Bilbray, B (R-CA)     House     $2,500
    Boehner, John (R-OH)     House     $2,500
    Buerkle, A M (R-NY)     House     $2,500
    Cardoza, D (D-CA)     House     $2,500
    Franks, Trent (R-AZ)     House     $2,500
    Gibson, Chris (R-NY)     House     $2,500
    Guthrie, Brett (R-KY)     House     $2,500
    Hayworth, Nan (R-NY)     House     $2,500
    Heck, Joe (R-NV)     House     $2,500
    Kelly, Jesse (R-AZ)     House     $2,500
    Kingston, Jack (R-GA)     House     $2,500
    I hate to demean ordinary prostitutes. These are the worst of America's baby killers.

    "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

    by bontemps2012 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 10:34:31 AM PST

  •  If the shooter (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    annieli, hester

    had used a shotgun to murder 20 kids, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.  We would be talking about mental health issues.

    If the kids had been black in a poor part of Detroit, we would be talking about the culture of violence as promulgated by violent video games and Quinten Tarentino movies, and the outrage would have lasted until the next news cycle and not a week.

    Life is a grindstone; whether it grinds you down or polishes you up depends on what you're made of. Jacob M. Braude

    by Grannus on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 10:43:50 AM PST

    •  I agree (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Grannus

      no one talks about black kids getting killed...ever.

      as for killing 26 people with a shotgun, you're wrong, you can bet we'd be having the same discussion about guns and gun violence.

      mittens=edsel. no matter how much money is spent to promote it, if the product sucks, no one will buy it.

      by wewantthetruth on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 10:53:52 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  But (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        annieli

        it wouldn't be with the passion and fanaticism we see now.  It's not been a discussion.  It's been a feeding frenzy.  Would there have been the same fervor about banning shotguns?

        Reforms are long overdue.  Reforms made in climates like this tend to overreach and end up being struck down.

        Life is a grindstone; whether it grinds you down or polishes you up depends on what you're made of. Jacob M. Braude

        by Grannus on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 10:59:01 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  the issue is not the weapon and it's not the # (0+ / 0-)

          it's the gun violence.

          reforms previously have been limited and filled with loopholes. time to make things happen.

          I am offended bu your "feeding frenzy" comment. this was a horrific and tragic event unlike anything in our country's history. I hope it remains in the news for months until something concrete has been done.

          you don't want to watch the feeding frenzy, shut your TV off, stop reading the news go back to putting your head in the sand.

          twenty cherubs taken from their families tragically is far from a  feeding frenzy.

          mittens=edsel. no matter how much money is spent to promote it, if the product sucks, no one will buy it.

          by wewantthetruth on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 11:16:04 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I agree that it's the gun violence. (0+ / 0-)

            Be as offended as you wish.  Reality is what it is.  I see the usual calls for bans on guns (not going to happen), bans on bullets (cute, but not going to happen),  bans on gun shows (a better chance, but not likely).  Reforms have their best chance to pass in years, but strident nonsense will alienate even people who might sympathize with you.

            you don't want to watch the feeding frenzy, shut your TV off, stop reading the news go back to putting your head in the sand.
            My head has never been in the sand.  Neither has it been in the clouds.  Your personal attack is both rude and unproductive.
            twenty cherubs taken from their families tragically is far from a  feeding frenzy.
            I'm sure this must make sense to you somehow, but linking the deaths with the reaction in our little orange echo chamber is stupid.

            Life is a grindstone; whether it grinds you down or polishes you up depends on what you're made of. Jacob M. Braude

            by Grannus on Sat Dec 22, 2012 at 12:59:18 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

  •  You are disappointed in the president's response? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    v2aggie2, Xtatic

    So what? Nothing changes our individual responsibilities as citizens to speak out and demand change. Is it better to sit on your hands because you believe the president is providing insufficient leadership? You can bet your representatives are hearing from the NRA. They need to hear from the rest of us.

  •  I'm so tired (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Annalize5, zaka1, raboof

    Of hearing this trope from the President.  It's a way of shifting responsibility from himself to us and therefore disavowing ownership of it.

    "We" just spent the better part of a year working our asses off to get him reelected.  When does our work end and the work we elected him to do begin?  As someone upthread mentioned, he didn't ask our help to cut SS or any other program The Very Serious People all agree should be cut.

    Mr President, I am 28, college educated, and am on the brink due to this failed economy.  It has gotten so bad I am even contemplating leaving this country so that my inability to find a job that pays the bills doesn't remain my inability to have adequate healthcare which I am in desperate need of.  You are the most powerful person on earth, how about a return to traditional roles?  I need YOUR help.

    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."

    by dankester on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 10:58:53 AM PST

  •  Local (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    hester, No10oX

    initiatives are a good way to start the journey to gun legislation. Taxes on gun purchases at a city level, mandatory insurance policies on guns purchased ( since gun manufactureres are exempt.. pass the burden onto the gun owner with a specific policy), perhaps require bullets be bought at police stations or State run stores .... all at the local level.. The NRA would have to fight many many local wildfires instead of paying off their House and Senate buddies....

    •  Or (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      No10oX

      If you live in a state like mine, Florida, it is now against the law for any county or municipal government to pass a gun law or ordinance stricter than one the state legislature passed.  

      Your idea is good for most places, but the gun nuts beat us to the punch here and possibly in other places.  

      "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."

      by dankester on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 11:26:35 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  They would probably (0+ / 0-)

        pass in more liberal jurisdictions, but criminals and crazy people live in those places too. If a city required all bullets had to be bought at the local police station, where an armed officer stood there and sold you the bullets,... more then a few gun crimes would be prevented as the many probably would not go in too buy them ( if they had something to hide or bad intentions). Yes, places like Florida won't allow it, but the more local roadblocks you can throw up across the country, it will all have a cumulative effect.

        •  Agreed (0+ / 0-)

          My point is that larger, namely federal action is needed. What good are local gun laws when one can possibly just drive to the next town and get whatever they want?

          "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."

          by dankester on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 12:02:43 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  The man said it. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    zizi

    And he's said in in general before.
    The POTUS has certain powers, but changing the laws, much less changing the culture, takes a mass movement.

    In football, you're part of the audience.  In politics, you're a player.

  •  I see---currently--- (0+ / 0-)

    there is a nationwide movement to have children give up their violent video games---which I do approve of---but now I'm wondering:

    Just what might the gun owners be willing to give up--now---on behalf of our children?

    "If it were up to me, I'd take away the guns."--Cheryl Wheeler

    by lyvwyr101 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 12:54:07 PM PST

  •  Let's do a deal... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bontemps2012

    Renewing the ban on assault weapons and multi-bullet clips would be super-easy.  Even Repukes can be shamed into saying Yes to a ban given the horror of a week ago.

    What do we get in trade?

    How about NO "chained CPI" AND NO changes in Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid.... for now.

    C'mon, Mr. President.  You bargain with the enemy and give him everything he wants EVERY time and he doesn't even appreciate it.

    We voted for you, even if only because you are the lesser of two evils because of your incessant caving to Repukes.  What would be the harm in giving US what we need and want for a change...?  At least we would appreciate it!

    I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

    by NonnyO on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 04:49:03 PM PST

    •  Good idea. But these people are shameless. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      NonnyO

      That is one of their weaknesses.

      What Obama did to Boehner so far on the "fiscal cliff" nonsense should be instructive.

      Boehner got himself trapped into breaking apart his own party. There is no proposal, now, that the Republicans would pass. Nothing they would agree to among themselves.

      Effectively, they are not a political party.

      "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

      by bontemps2012 on Sat Dec 22, 2012 at 04:22:06 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  The tax cuts... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bontemps2012

        ... both the Bushista tax cuts and the Obama income tax cut... were all supposed to be TEMPORARY..., and then we were supposed to go back to those same level of taxes.

        The only one that impacted most of us was the Obama income tax cut because that cut into the FICA / Social Security Trust Fund, but the Bushista cuts impacted the corporations and richest bastages that were supposed to "create jobs" for the little peons, but they didn't, of course (no big surprise, that); the ultra rich don't pay taxes because of all the exemptions and credits they take, and ultra-rich corporations often receive millions in refunds.

        WHAT, pray tell, would be so wrong in letting those TEMPORARY tax cuts expire like they were supposed to have done a long time ago?

        I don't get it.

        Let the whole thing step off the curb.  It really won't make that much difference.

        I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

        by NonnyO on Sat Dec 22, 2012 at 05:14:35 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  I like the idea of throwing baby killers (0+ / 0-)

    out of office.

    People who help kill real, live babies by the score.

    And more babies/teens/adults every time there's another insane attack on strangers.

    "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

    by bontemps2012 on Sat Dec 22, 2012 at 04:11:15 PM PST

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