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Today, the NRA issued a public statement that makes David Icke look sane, sensible and with a wise plan for a better future. Do click on that link and come back, you'll understand my meaning.

What is more offensive, is this statement:

A dozen more killers, a hundred more? How can we possibly even guess how many, given our nation's refusal to create an active national database of the mentally ill?
A registry for the mentally ill! The bigotry against mental illness is palpable. They are utterly mad. Their answer to gun violence is more gun violence! The house is burning, and their plan is a bucket brigade from the local gas station. They wish to militarize schools, turning teachers into soldiers - and students into civilian casualties. That a national organization, short of the Klan, can utter this hateful nonsense is astounding.

I encourage every able reader of this missive to make their disapprobation known. Further stigmatizing the mentally is not the answer, nor is turning schools into combat zones.

This press conference has already harmed Americans by further discouraging the mentally ill from pursuing treatment. Can you imagine? They've branded every mentally ill person(myself included, I have difficulties with depression for which I take medication) a potential assassin. Would you want to be branded with that image? No one does. Many would rather suffer than pursue treatment. A registry of the mentally ill would, by its very nature, register only those who are pursuing treatment. These are not the ones who are even a concern. Such a registry would push people away from seeking treatment, for fear of being marked as pariahs.    

The NRA has become a satire of itself. On this day, they issued A Modest Proposal to all of America. We well know what the truth of such proposals is.

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Comment Preferences

  •  So.... Lanza's mother, who feared the government (16+ / 0-)

    and believed that she needed to arm herself against the federal government and economic collapse, is supposed by the NRA to have been someone who would have been willing to submit her son's name to a federal database of the "mentally ill"?

    That's one more thing to add to my long list of small problems. --my son, age 10

    by concernedamerican on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 01:19:17 PM PST

  •  Now? (0+ / 0-)

    There is truth on all sides. The question is how much.

    by slothlax on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 01:19:49 PM PST

  •  With a tinge of racism: (7+ / 0-)

    Notice that they only means of addressing the "funding" of their armed junta protecting our schools?

    Foreign aid.  He said something like (not quoting here) with the amount of money that this country spends on foreign aid we should be able to defend our classrooms.

    So, in appealing to his "base" he says that they will not even have to pay for it, all they have to do is to stop giving foreigners money and our children will not be slaughtered.

    They finally have gone too far - thankfully.

    Blessed are the peacemakers, the poor, the meek and the sick. Message to Repug Fundies: "DO you really wonder "what would Jesus do?" I didn't think so.

    by 4CasandChlo on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 01:21:03 PM PST

  •  No - it's not (4+ / 0-)

    a "hate group."

    "The two pioneering forces of modern sensibility are Jewish moral seriousness and homosexual aestheticism and irony." Susan Sontag

    by Shane Hensinger on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 01:28:54 PM PST

    •  Well Ok (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kestrel9000, profewalt

      how about bat sh&t insane or least the CEO is and most orgs rot from the head down.

      Why is it that, as a culture, we are more comfortable seeing two men holding guns than holding hands?

      by jsfox on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 01:49:27 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  You do know (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        msmacgyver

        LaPierre isn't the top dog, right?
        He's #2 and the mouthpiece.

        •  As long as they put him (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          A Citizen, kestrel9000, cyncynical

          out there like he is and as long as he speaks for the NRA I could care less who actually is the top dog. Waynie is certifiable not to mention needs to start wearing a large tin foil hat.

          Why is it that, as a culture, we are more comfortable seeing two men holding guns than holding hands?

          by jsfox on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 02:23:59 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Who is top dog? nt (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kestrel9000

          When someone is impatient and says, "I haven't got all day," I always wonder, How can that be? How can you not have all day? George Carlin

          by msmacgyver on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 02:58:20 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Whoever the top dog is seems content (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kestrel9000, classicsnerd

          to have this asshole as spokesman.

          "I smoke. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your fuckin' mouth." --- Bill Hicks

          by voroki on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 03:03:04 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  They're both baby killers. (0+ / 0-)

            "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

            by bontemps2012 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 04:30:49 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Links, please, to the deaths ... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Shane Hensinger

              they're personally responsible for.

              Perhaps you'll be the next "baby killer" if you are somehow responsible for a person being prevented from being armed when another attack occurs and lives could be saved but won't be.  The guilt will (should) overwhelm you if that situation happens and one of your own family members is lost.  Some would even say it would serve you right, but I won't say that because I won't wish for the death of an innocent person just to teach you a lesson and make a valid point.  I daresay the parents of the children at Sandy Hook would have LOVED to have had an armed person on hand to at least try and stop Lanza.

              "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

              by Neuroptimalian on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 08:09:54 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  What if... (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                bontemps2012

                ...one of those armed people accidentally shot one of the kids? Would they have loved it then?

                •  What if ... (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Shane Hensinger

                  Lanza decided to not bother even going there because he knew there were armed people at the school?  That's why they choose schools and other places like them, because they know they can do the most damage.  How many times has someone gone into a police station to try and shoot up the place?  None that I'm aware of.

                  "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

                  by Neuroptimalian on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 09:24:14 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  No mass shootings at pet stores, either. (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    bontemps2012

                    I didn't have any luck finding any mass shootings at pet stores. Not a lot of guns there.

                    The number and location of shootings says very little about the cause without considering the larger context. You can't assume a cause and then further assume that that can be transferred elsewhere.

                    I reiterate: How many children are acceptable collateral damage in the scenario you advocate? What is stopping the gunman from using a child as a human shield? We already know that most such gunmen have little concern for their safety. If they did worry about the danger of being killed, they wouldn't kill themselves.

                    The threat of deadly force does not work on these people, they have already moved beyond such fears.

                    •  Pet stores aren't usually crowded, ... (0+ / 0-)

                      though malls often are ... and malls are targeted for the same reason schools are.

                      If you don't think the initial absence of deadly force is a factor ... if not THE factor, other than location population density ... just what DO you think serves to draw killers to schools, malls and theaters?  It seems pretty obvious to me that the attraction is the odds of a high number of casualties that serves their goal.

                      The whole "acceptable collateral damage" question is just nonsense.  You can ban guns 100% starting tomorrow and such laws won't remove a single one of the 300 MILLION that are already out there.  Get real.  Vulnerable people of all ages will continue to die and the only way to reduce their numbers is by being equipped and able to confront their attempting killers when they make their moves.

                      "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

                      by Neuroptimalian on Sat Dec 22, 2012 at 12:29:09 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                  •  Concealed weapon = dead guard. (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    classicsnerd

                    Both VA Tech and Columbine had armed guards.

                    Useless against a heavily armed attacker. Totally useless.

                    Maybe you want to hire a tactical SWAT Team for every school.

                    Duty cycle = 0.000000001%.

                    Compared with locking away guns and running tight licensing so paranoid schizophrenics get little to no access to them.... That's cheap and easy to implement and it works.

                    "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

                    by bontemps2012 on Sat Dec 22, 2012 at 09:02:49 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I totally agree ... (0+ / 0-)

                      that securing guns in homes and keeping guns away from paranoid schizophrenics are absolutely necessary.  But I vehemently disagree that armed guards are "totally useless" against an armed attacker.  If that were true, there'd be no armed guards anywhere.  And I'd rather at least have a chance against an attacker as opposed to having no chance whatsoever; that'd be absolute suicide.

                      "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

                      by Neuroptimalian on Sat Dec 22, 2012 at 01:06:19 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I have worked at three sites (0+ / 0-)

                        where angry or deranged attackers murdered armed guards.

                        At one of these the guards did respond effectively. It is a large military installation.

                        Really, unless you have your weapon out and ready to fire, you're nothing but the first target when a heavily armed attacker comes in.

                        "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

                        by bontemps2012 on Sat Dec 22, 2012 at 03:45:47 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

    •  Terrorist Organization (4+ / 0-)

      Is that better....

      Do something...marinedefenders.com

      by profewalt on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 02:13:07 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Those with which you disagree are not terrorists (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Neuroptimalian

        nor are they members of a "hate group." Those labels has been used against progressives for decades.

        "The two pioneering forces of modern sensibility are Jewish moral seriousness and homosexual aestheticism and irony." Susan Sontag

        by Shane Hensinger on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 02:24:11 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I disagree (0+ / 0-)

          with a number of organizations...however one that feels it is OK to arm any psychopath that has enough money to buy a weapon of mass destruction..Is a hate group or terrorist organization....

          Do something...marinedefenders.com

          by profewalt on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 04:06:20 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Semi-automatics are not WMDS (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Neuroptimalian

            WTF is wrong with people laying claim to completely spurious descriptions so they can make a stronger emotional impact? A nuclear weapon is a WMD, a tank or artillery shell or a semi-automatic or automatic weapon is not.

            These arguments are stupid and wrong-headed and they're not going to get us closer to our goal of tighter regulation. Like the gun lobby's own arguments they're full of logical fallacies.

            "The two pioneering forces of modern sensibility are Jewish moral seriousness and homosexual aestheticism and irony." Susan Sontag

            by Shane Hensinger on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 04:33:08 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  How many kids did that gun kill? (0+ / 0-)

              1 gun 28 people...28 lives snuffed out in a mater of moments.

              Yes semantics....

              How about 5 round max bolt action or shotgun...6 shots in a revolver..Ban the rest...

              If you need more than that get help.

              Do something...marinedefenders.com

              by profewalt on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 05:03:29 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  It's not just because I disagree with them. (0+ / 0-)

          It's because they want a registry of the mentally ill. How would you feel if they had asked for a registry of black people?

          People don't choose mental illness.

    •  indeed it is. At least those of similar mind as (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      classicsnerd

      Wayne La Pierre.  Today's press conference was twisted.

      These are not 'those with whom I disagree'--the press conference made it clear that Pierre represents a lunatic and dangerous fringe of society.

      That doesn't mean that all NRA members are bad people--but they should find a more socially palatable gun-rights organization.

  •  I don't know about a hate group but (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    profewalt, cyncynical

    they are nuts.

    •  "Extremists" is more accurate (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      msmacgyver, cyncynical

      They exist across the political spectrum - it's just that 2nd Amendment extremists enable murderers.

      "The two pioneering forces of modern sensibility are Jewish moral seriousness and homosexual aestheticism and irony." Susan Sontag

      by Shane Hensinger on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 02:29:31 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  There are plenty of "nuts" who insist ... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      classicsnerd

      on exercising their constitutional rights as well.  Westboro Baptist Church members and Code Pink come to mind right off.  But even as bad as they are, they haven't killed anyone.  A nut who wants to kill will do so, even if their choice of weapons is limited.

      "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

      by Neuroptimalian on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 08:15:20 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  And how do they propose to determine who is (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    msmacgyver, luckylizard, classicsnerd

    mentally ill when it is difficult for even the best psychiatrists and psychologists in many cases? And what kinds of mental illnesses would quality? And where would they draw the lines?

    It is quite clear that the NRA and any others making such absurd proposals don't have the slightest idea of what they are talking about.

    "There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats ..." - Kenneth Grahame -

    by RonK on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 01:53:18 PM PST

    •  Ted Nugent is a board member - 'nuff said nt (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      classicsnerd

      When someone is impatient and says, "I haven't got all day," I always wonder, How can that be? How can you not have all day? George Carlin

      by msmacgyver on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 03:02:12 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  The mental health community ... (0+ / 0-)

      is already trained to assess whether a person is a danger to himself or others.  Making them liable for improperly releasing dangerous individuals would change the landscape considerably.

      "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

      by Neuroptimalian on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 08:17:51 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Not the 1950s, dude. (0+ / 0-)

        We don't institutionalize every mentally ill person. Nor does every person who is mentally ill and about to engage in an act of violence as result immediately report themselves to the authorities.

        We don't magically know who does and does not need help.

        •  One, I'm not a "dude". (0+ / 0-)

          Two, I didn't say we should institutionalize every mentally ill person, just the ones who pose a danger.  Three, professionals DO know who likely poses a danger.

          "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

          by Neuroptimalian on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 09:27:40 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I was using "dude" in a common gender meaning. (0+ / 0-)

            Concerning your two remaining points:

            The former hinges upon the success of the latter. Regrettably, the latter exceeds the limits of modern medical technology. Which doctor knew that Lanza was going to be violent? We can extend this to many criminals. For the former point to be effective, the latter must be possible with better than ~90% accuracy. Modern medicine can't do that yet. It's medicine, not a crystal ball.

            Further, an individual who is mentally ill and may be violent is not continuously so. It is very easy for the person to show no signs of violent tendencies at all when they're around medical professionals, and yet still commit an act of violence.

            False negatives are not our only concern. False positives are as well. I know one fellow who suffers from bipolar disorder. He is deeply fearful, and engages in boxing training and weight lifting. He speaks frequently of violence and can be very alarming. The reality is that as long as I've known him he's never actually acted on his bravado. It's all talk. There are many such people. Many of them may be institutionalized needlessly. Once in an institutional environment, the stress exacerbates their illness turning it into a self-fulfilling prophecy. Such poor people are then effectively incarcerated, without having done anything wrong, and unable to do what is necessary for them to get better.

            There is a book I recommend reading. It is fairly short, called Ten Days in a Madhouse. It is an exposé of mental hospitals more than a hundred years ago. It provides considerable insight into the current handling of mental illness. I do not think that modern institutions would be nearly so bad, but the reality is that institutionalizing people isn't the best way to handle mental illness.

            I appreciate your desire to find a good solution, but your ideas are simply unimplementable, I'm afraid.

            •  Unimplementable? (0+ / 0-)

              Psychiatrists institutionalize dangerous people all the time on the basis of assessing whether a person is a considerable risk to himself or others.  It's their JOB, one they're supposedly trained to be able to do.  If they're too weaselly to handle that part of their jobs, they should be replaced or, at a minimum, demoted to a level at which they're capable of adequately performing.

              Why the shrinks who knew about the dangers clearly posed by the Aurora, Tucson and Virginia killers didn't act is inexcusable.  They should be held accountable and sued, hopefully instilling enough fear in other shrinks to cause them do their jobs in the future as well.  As to Lanza's shrink, we don't know that there even was one, at least not recently.  No meds were found at the home.  There, I believe it'll ultimately turn out that Mom not only didn't get her son the attention he needed, she exacerbated his condition by attempting to force him into independence he was nowhere near ready for.

              "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

              by Neuroptimalian on Sat Dec 22, 2012 at 12:43:37 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

  •  NRA: Database for mentally ill - Yes (4+ / 0-)

    NRA: Database for gun owners and guns - No

  •  That they have been for a while, now they are a (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cyncynical, classicsnerd

    domestic terrorism group.

    Then they came for me - and by that time there was nobody left to speak up.

    by DefendOurConstitution on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 02:19:30 PM PST

    •  Insisting upon being prepared to defend ... (0+ / 0-)

      one's self is sane and logical; blindly believing everyone would magically be safe if only guns could be made to disappear is delusional and extremely shallow thinking.  

      "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

      by Neuroptimalian on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 08:21:49 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Maybe... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cyncynical, msmacgyver

    the names of the NRA leadership, starting with LaPierre, should be the first names on the national database of mentally ill.

    Being "pro-life" means believing that every child born has a right to food, education, and access to health care.

    by Jilly W on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 02:24:25 PM PST

  •  Database of potentially violent instead? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cyncynical

    Most of the mentally ill are simply miserable rather than dangerous. If we treat all of them, we'll head off some violence while doing a lot of good, so it's worthwhile, but a database isn't going to make them better.

    •  We are not psychic. (0+ / 0-)

      This is the problem. You can only tell that someone is mentally ill and potentially violent if they have either already been violent, or pursued treatment.

      Those who have not - like Adam Lanza - would go completely undetected.

  •  Insane Wayne LaPierre should be the first name (0+ / 0-)

    listed in the data base. His "presser" was incomprehensible and incoherant.... he made a complete fool of every member of the NRA.
     

    Eric Cantor can kiss my big old Missouri butt!

    by cyncynical on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 03:03:47 PM PST

  •  The main registry needed in the US is about GUNS! (0+ / 0-)

    Mental illnesses don't kill, guns do!

    •  Research paranoid schizophrenia (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Shane Hensinger

      before you get too far into that position.

      Anders Behring and Jared Loughner. Martin Bryant. Hundreds of these armed attackers of groups of strangers.

      Hallucinations, voices, delusional world views that are often acquired externally. The last young kids you would want playing "Call of Duty" day after day in a cellar. Or getting hands on guns.

      Australia goes to great lengths to keep these patients well away from guns. That works. Has worked well for 16 years.

      "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

      by bontemps2012 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 04:16:55 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Mental illness can play a role, but... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bontemps2012

        Not all mental illness is like paranoid schizophrenia. And it's no guarantee that someone with those problems will commit violence.

        The problem with guns isn't so much about causing things. It's about making things more efficient. A Bushmaster with a 30 round clip is a hell of a lot more efficient than a flintlock.

        •  The direction is that paranoid schizophrenia (0+ / 0-)

          is the most likely cause leading to armed-attack mass murders.

          Other mental illnesses are much less likely to act as causes for such murders.

          Asperger's isn't even a mental illness. It is inversely correlated with violence of all types.

          We also need to consider that video games are going to operate differently on schizophrenics, generally, than on ordinary people.

          "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

          by bontemps2012 on Sat Dec 22, 2012 at 09:06:49 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Fair enough. I overextended myself. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bontemps2012

        Still, didn't they kill using guns?

        •  The intersection of paranoid schizophrenia (0+ / 0-)

          with modern guns is what matters, what deserves the priority.

          In England one of these patients named Tennyson Obih lost it and made a violent attack. He killed one police officer. He used a knife. In America he could have killed dozens.

          Thing is, what it takes to separate guns from the 50,000 American paranoid schizophrenics is nothing short of changing how we do guns.

          "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

          by bontemps2012 on Sat Dec 22, 2012 at 06:19:18 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  BABY KILLERS !! (0+ / 0-)

    "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

    by bontemps2012 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 04:10:57 PM PST

  •  What a revolting despicable organization (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    classicsnerd

    Headed by a sociopath.  Burn in hell Wayne lapierre for what u have done.

    "The real wealth of a nation consists of the contributions of its people and nature." -- Rianne Eisler

    by noofsh on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 05:23:00 PM PST

    •  Oh gawd. The crazy, it burns. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Shane Hensinger

      "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

      by Neuroptimalian on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 08:23:44 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  There sure is a lot of hyperbole around this (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Neuroptimalian

        issue. The NRA's conference today was filled with it and so is a lot of the commentary here: "Baby killer!!" "Terrorists!!" Where did I last hear a lot of that same lingo? When Operation Rescue was blockading abortion clinics.

        "The two pioneering forces of modern sensibility are Jewish moral seriousness and homosexual aestheticism and irony." Susan Sontag

        by Shane Hensinger on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 09:30:00 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  False equivalency. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JMcDonald

          Just because a term has been used by a disreputable person does not mean that everyone who uses it is disreputable.

          That being said, I do not agree that the NRA are terrorists or baby killers. They are accessories to such crimes, however, by advocating for the right to gun ownership without responsibility.

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