Skip to main content

A thought experiment.  Most (not all) rampage shooters are young white males, probably for reasons that are not all that hard to speculate about correctly.  

But what if the shooters were all black?  Or Muslim?  Of what if just the Newtown shooter was black AND Muslim.  Can we imagine the national "conversation" then?  All too easily.

Perhaps the NRA would propose disarming all blacks?  Or arming all whites?  

EMAIL TO A FRIEND X
Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags

?

More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  Seth - if the shooter had been Muslim and/or black (6+ / 0-)

    The conversation would have been focused on Muslims and/ or blacks. I think it would have deflected, rather than intensified the discussions about gun control.

    "let's talk about that"

    by VClib on Sun Dec 23, 2012 at 11:07:50 AM PST

  •  People would go out and buy more guns (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ExStr8

    than they already have in the wake of this tragedy.

  •  This is the point that David Sirota... (12+ / 0-)

    ...made in his Salon article and on CNN with Don Lemon last night.

    We typically individualize a criminal actions when it is committed by a white person and we make it a matter of collective behavior when it is a person of color. The same applies when the crime is committed by the "other," a Muslim, an Arab.

    Sirota about his appearance on Up with Chris Hayes:

    I said that because most of the mass shootings in America come at the hands of white men, there would likely be political opposition to initiatives that propose to use those facts to profile the demographic group to which these killers belong. I suggested that’s the case because as opposed to people of color or, say, Muslims, white men as a subgroup are in such a privileged position in our society that they are the one group that our political system avoids demographically profiling or analytically aggregating in any real way. Indeed, unlike other demographic, white guys as a group are never thought to be an acceptable topic for any kind of critical discussion whatsoever, even when there is ample reason to open up such a discussion.

    My comment was in response to U.S. Rep. James Langevin (D) floating the idea of employing the Secret Service for such profiling, and I theorized that because the profiling would inherently target white guys, the political response to such an idea might be similar to the Republican response to the 2009 Homeland Security report looking, in part, at the threat of right-wing terrorism. As you might recall, the same GOP that openly supports profiling — and demonizing — Muslims essentially claimed that the DHS report was unacceptable because its focus on white male terrorist groups allegedly stereotyped (read: offensively profiled) conservatives.

    Now, Sirota notes that he is NOT in favor of profiling. His objective was to point out the double standard,  the hypocrisy.

    Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

    by Meteor Blades on Sun Dec 23, 2012 at 11:18:08 AM PST

  •  Or black! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sylv, ExStr8, indubitably

    Try to imagine an NRA rally with a bunch of armed old white guys.

    Now imagine that same crowd with the same guns and a bunch of young black guys.

    Tell me the police reaction would be the same.

    I have never been able to figure out if Fox is the propaganda arm of the Republican party or is the Republican Party the political subsidiary of Fox.

    by Dave from Oregon on Sun Dec 23, 2012 at 11:18:25 AM PST

  •  We've been there: the Beltway snipers were black (6+ / 0-)

    and John Allen Muhammad was a member Nation of Islam who claimed to be inspired by bin Laden.

    They used a  Bushmaster .223-caliber weapon similar to the one used by Lanza.

    Beltway sniper attacks

    The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -- John Kenneth Galbraith

    by richardak on Sun Dec 23, 2012 at 11:27:33 AM PST

    •  Not quite (0+ / 0-)

      The beltway sniper shootings were serial, not mass killings... the only ones trying to make a relevant association of Muhammad and the NOI were those objective observers at World Net Daily; while Muhammad had joined the NOI in 1997 he had neither dealings nor contact with any member of any NOI mosque from 1999 up to his being arrested for the shootings...also, Muhammad was arrested, tried, convicted and executed for his crimes.

      There was never a push to declare them insane or unstable; instead his ties to the Nation of Islam were used to paint this as a terrorist act. They were never framed as being outliers.

      Fear doesn't just breed incomprehension. It also breeds a spiteful, resentful hate of anyone and everyone who is in any way different from you.

      by awesumtenor on Sun Dec 23, 2012 at 03:42:08 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Look, the point is... (0+ / 0-)

        the fact that they were black and that Muhammad had Muslim ties made no difference in terms of creating a debate about gun laws.

        As for their killings being serial instead of all at once, the prolonged terror that they caused with the nature of their attacks more than made up for it.

        The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -- John Kenneth Galbraith

        by richardak on Sun Dec 23, 2012 at 05:10:26 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I disagree (0+ / 0-)

          the reason there was no debate about gun laws is because   no one ever made the argument that guns were the problem... his being black and muslim, OTOH were on a constant loop.

          If anything, the gun-loving political right used it not to debate gun laws, but instead to convince more "angry white guys" that Muhammad was merely the tip of the iceberg and in order to be be prepared for the inevitable war on white folks they needed to buy even more guns.

          The DC sniper attacks were never framed as being a reason to restrict the purchase and ownership of guns... so your point is no point at all.

          Fear doesn't just breed incomprehension. It also breeds a spiteful, resentful hate of anyone and everyone who is in any way different from you.

          by awesumtenor on Mon Dec 24, 2012 at 08:12:01 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  How obtuse can you be? (0+ / 0-)
            The DC sniper attacks were never framed as being a reason to restrict the purchase and ownership of guns

            Which is exactly what I said
            . Why are trying to imply the opposite?

            My comment was in response to the diarist, who suggested that if we had mass killers who were black and/or Muslim it would made a difference in the gun debate. It didn't then, and wouldn't now.

            Jesus.

            The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -- John Kenneth Galbraith

            by richardak on Mon Dec 24, 2012 at 01:01:50 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

  •  Not An "Honor Killing" When Bubba Kills His Slut (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ExStr8, indubitably, JesseCW, JDsg, WakeUpNeo

    ex-wife in the parking of the PigglyWiggly, because they's good Christians.

    There’s always free cheddar in a mousetrap, baby

    by bernardpliers on Sun Dec 23, 2012 at 11:33:31 AM PST

  •  What if the shooting took place pre-election? (3+ / 0-)

    Obama, Romney and Congressional candidates would have to evaluate their responses in view of polarized voters and close polls. Voters might make gun policy as some sort of litmus test.

    Given the dynamics of framing, race and policy - how do you think this tragedy would have been addressed? Just curious.

    •  Good question (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Radhika

      but at the same time, it's always pre-election (for future elections) and voters can still make gun policy a litmus test.  Unfortunately, the litmus test has more often involved support of the NRA while proponents of gun control are more apt to look the other way.  This needs to change.

      Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.

      by winsock on Sun Dec 23, 2012 at 12:07:39 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Muslim shooter: calls to invade Iran! (6+ / 0-)

    sadly

    Stonewall was a RIOT!

    by ExStr8 on Sun Dec 23, 2012 at 12:23:14 PM PST

  •  The media would call him 'Terrorist' (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite, WakeUpNeo

    "Rick Perry talks a lot and he's not very bright. And that's a combination I like in Republicans." --- James Carville

    by LaurenMonica on Sun Dec 23, 2012 at 12:50:23 PM PST

  •  We don't need "thought experiments". (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite

    We already know what happens when the shooters are Muslim and/or African American.

    "Furthermore, if you think this would be the very very last cut ever if we let it happen, you are a very confused little rabbit." cai

    by JesseCW on Sun Dec 23, 2012 at 01:07:32 PM PST

  •  Just imagine the 'show' we would had... (0+ / 0-)

    Fox would be all over it like stink on shit. It would be ugly. Conservatives really like to play the 'fear' card, so it's nice this wasn't the scenario.

    Only the weak & defeated are called to account for their crimes.

    by rreabold on Sun Dec 23, 2012 at 02:51:48 PM PST

  •  I can be 99.9% certain that if the CT (0+ / 0-)

    shooter was Black or Muslim, there would be no strong call from anyone for better mental health programs because everyone knows those groups don't have mental health issues at all. /snark.

  •  What would the reaction of been here? (0+ / 0-)

    Different?

    How big is your personal carbon footprint?

    by ban nock on Sun Dec 23, 2012 at 03:12:25 PM PST

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site