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I've been watching Dailykos parade pictures of Boehner in tears on the front page for years now.

Ok, I get it: We make fun of the opposition and their sniffling speaker.

But under all of this "fun" is the unstated and very nasty assumption that REAL MEN DONT CRY

I'm a real man. I'm not a macho guy, or a sports hero, or an athlete. I'm a geeky brainiac who got relentlessly teased by the macho guys all through highschool. I've been teased for crying and I've been teased for not being manly enough for someone's arbitrary standards

It's sexist, homophobic and gender oppressive. CUT IT OUT.

Bash Boehner for being a crap speaker, for having terrible policies. Bash him for leading a lost party. But stop bashing him for having the audacity to not conform to your standards of manliness. I expected better from this community.

Originally posted to marvinborg on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 11:54 AM PST.

Also republished by Feminism, Pro-Feminism, Womanism: Feminist Issues, Ideas, & Activism.

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Comment Preferences

  •  tell that to Senator Ed Muskie (3+ / 0-)

    He lost the Presidential nomination because people feared he was unstable (due to the crying).

    1972.  You think we've changed since then?

    Happy little moron, Lucky little man.
    I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am!
    —Spike Milligan

    by polecat on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 11:56:20 AM PST

    •  link (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Liberal Granny

      Happy little moron, Lucky little man.
      I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am!
      —Spike Milligan

      by polecat on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 11:56:45 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  You miss the point. (15+ / 0-)

      The point the diarist is trying to make is that making fun of Boehner for crying is very similar to calling a woman a bitch for exercising her power. It goes against our professed values as progressives.

      I do get your point, though. Personally, I think that Boehner's crying is a little over the top and melodramatic, and more than likely due in part to alcohol abuse. Boehner is not less of a man because he cries. But I would consider any person who cries like Boehner does to be a tad bit unstable. It is not the fact that he cries that is the problem. It is the frequency, and the types of things he cries about.

      •  I totally disagree. It's not that Boehner (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ctami, slothlax, jennyp, a2nite, anastasia p

        cried - it's that he cries all the time.  Can you, in your wildest imagination, imagine a woman being elected to ANY office, much less as speaker of the house, if she cried at the drop of a hat?  And can you imagine Boehner defending any woman who was criticized for crying?  I can't.  He deserves any and every criticism he gets.

        "If you trust you are not critical; if you are critical you do not trust" by our own Dauphin

        by gustynpip on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 12:50:54 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  I find that pretty hard to accept (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ctami, slothlax, Wednesday Bizzare

        Making fun of Boehner for constantly crying is nothing like calling a woman a bitch for exercising her power. When politicians lose their cool, they are mocked. Like when Hilary started crying during the campaign. Like when Dick Cheney gave Leahy the finger on the Senate floor. Believe me, if Nancy Pelosi publicly broke down into tears literally every time she won a vote or obtained some sort of personal milestone, she would be roundly mocked as well.

        The fact is that mocking Boehner's tears comes from two places: first, he is seen by most on the left as a nakedly cynical politician who is so in love with himself that he is constantly weeping at his own accomplishments. Second, it makes an amusing visual joke to post a crying Boehner photo (there are so many) whenever he can't muster votes from his own party. Just like people are always posting the serial killer turtle photo of Mitch McConnel whenever he's pushing something we don't like.

        No one mocks Obama when he cries publicly. Plently of other male politicians cry publicly, and no one mocks them. This is purely related to Boehner himself.

        •  We are talking about what is RIGHT, not popular (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          TLS66, cotterperson, dear occupant, Smoh

          You just excused bad behavior by saying "everyone does it."

          I also have this odd feeling that you stopped reading my comment at the word "bitch."

          •  i dont find it to be bad (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Wednesday Bizzare

            how is making fun of a world leader for not being so full of himself that he breaks down in tears any time anyone mentions that he's speaker of the house bad behavior? its not like anyones mocking boehner crying at a funeral.

            as to the rest of your message, i was critiquing the original diarist through your characterization of what they said.

            •  Then you missed my point (0+ / 0-)

              Because I disagreed with the diarist, in the end. You responded to a comment you had not fully read and comprehended, and you excused bad behavior by saying everyone does it. Yes, calling a man a sissy for crying  (which is the particular issue the diarist raised) is bad behavior. And now you are trying to defend yourself.

              You have yourself a nice day, and feel free to continue defending yourself, but I am done discussing this with you.

      •  His crying bothers me only because (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        a2nite

        I suspect/believe that it is caused by his drinking.  Many of us get pretty maudlin when drunk.

        Cats are better than therapy, and I'm a therapist.

        by Smoh on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 04:01:16 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  The diarist is being pointlessly thin-skinned (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Wednesday Bizzare

        Boehner's drop-of-the-hat blubbering is inappropriate for ANY elected official. And no, it's not the equivalent of calling a woman a "bitch." It's the equivalent of saying if she cries she's showing her girlie side and is unfit for office. I agree with your suggestion that Boehner's drinking probably helps make him blubbery. Fact is, he gets teary-eyed way too much.

        Jon Husted is a dick.

        by anastasia p on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 04:56:13 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Naah, I don't think it is. (0+ / 0-)

        Men can cry.  But Boner crying generally seems the equivalent of a toddler's tantrum in a store -- completely overblown and out of line and proportion for the situation that he's dealing with.  It's like he's hardly got any control over either his internal or external emotional states.  

        I'd make fun of a woman who got as weepy as Boner does for the same reason.  Sex hasn't got anything much to do with it; the man just ain't right.

    •  Then point THAT out (5+ / 0-)

      whatever the source of his 'tears' - instability, feigned emotion - WHATEVER - it would be better to focus on THAT rather than mocking the tears

      Perhaps - he is genuinely emotional - or emotionally disabled - I don't know ... but I do agree with the diarist that using his tears as the butt of jokes and mocking is truly just another ad hominem

      there IS lots to criticize in the republican party - Boehner's tears?  whatever it is, I am not moved enough to be either sympathetic or cynical - so I accept the diarist's point and just rather it was left alone ...

      "I want to keep them alive long enough that I can win them to Christ," - Rick Warren, Professional Greed Driven Scumbag

      by josephk on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 12:17:45 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Thanks (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cotterperson, Smoh

        That is exactly my point. We're better than this. We can find plenty of substantial things to criticize.

        •  Give me a fracking break! (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Wednesday Bizzare, Praxical, Mortifyd

          A man crying for something worthy, like the death of family, news of a disaster, or the birth of a child is totally human and accepted. How many times have we seen men cry at funerals, weddings, and even at movies, with pure empathy streaming from our hearts.

          A man crying because he didn't get his way, on the other hand, much like a whining spoiled child, is outright pathetic. Boner cries because he didn't win. Mocking him for this is appropriate because he is crying over not being able to fuck old poor people.

          “I’m able to fly, do what I want, essentially. I guess that’s what freedom is — no limits.” Marybeth Onyeukwu -- Brooklyn DREAMer.

          by chuco35 on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 04:47:54 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  His point is that (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Pluto

      we should change.

      •  To what, exactly? I still think someone crying all (0+ / 0-)

        the time in a position like this is unstable.

        Is that not a fair judgement?

        Happy little moron, Lucky little man.
        I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am!
        —Spike Milligan

        by polecat on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 01:22:33 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Not so much unstable in an emotional way, (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Anima

          imho, but unstable in terms of maturity. His tears are those of a spoiled child, and not those of a truly grieving or joyful man.

          “I’m able to fly, do what I want, essentially. I guess that’s what freedom is — no limits.” Marybeth Onyeukwu -- Brooklyn DREAMer.

          by chuco35 on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 04:49:37 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Real Men do indeed cry. (30+ / 0-)

    John Boehner not being made fun of because he is a man crying.

    He's being made fun of because he is crying over wounds largely self-inflicted because of his party affiliation.

    I intend to continue pointing and laughing at him for that.

    Before you win, you have to fight. Come fight along with us at Texas Kaos.

    by boadicea on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 11:56:38 AM PST

  •  Wrong assumption (28+ / 0-)

    Real men cry REAL tears. Boner's are props used to further his agenda. An agenda, I might add, that makes men (and women) weep when their sick child dies from lack of health care. Or is shot in a school yard. Or a hundred other tragedies for which he's happy to "turn on the waterworks" in order to achieve. We're not making fun of men crying, we're making fun of a lying liar who uses tears.

    What's wrong with America? I'll tell you. Everything Romney said was pre-chewed wads of cud from Republicans from the last 30 years and yet he managed thru a combination of racism and selling the (false) hope of riches to get 47% of the national vote.

    by ontheleftcoast on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 11:57:29 AM PST

  •  Give me a break. The comments aren't about (19+ / 0-)

    him crying this time, they are about him crying at the drop of a hat, which he does. Weeper of the house is an entirely appropriate moniker.

    "I smoke. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your fuckin' mouth." --- Bill Hicks

    by voroki on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 11:57:57 AM PST

  •  Rethugs and (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    leu2500, Mortifyd, SilentBrook, gustynpip

    Right wingers in general like seeing their leaders cry for some reason, Boehner, Beck, Any Fundy preacher caught with their pants around their ankles etc.

    In other words the tears that you complain about are usually part of a stunt and are completely fake.

    Personally I don't think it is a sign of strength when men cry at work but that may be my Northern European upbringing.

  •  he's a whiner. So we make fun of him. End of (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    leu2500, susanala, agent, raincrow, gustynpip

    story.  nt

  •  Too true. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    raincrow, Neuroptimalian

    I don't think I would necessarily term this behavior homophobic; however, I do agree that it represents a terrible double standard, and one that should be well beneath such a progressive site as this.

    I suggest we focus on Boehner's artificially orange hue instead.

    •  By double standard (5+ / 0-)

      do you mean you think a women who cried in a similar fashion wouldn't be subject to mocking and derision?

      Cuz, I gotta tell you, that has not been my experience with far less tears professionally speaking.

      Before you win, you have to fight. Come fight along with us at Texas Kaos.

      by boadicea on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 12:13:06 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  in fact (0+ / 0-)

        hilary practically lost the nomination in '08 because she started publicly crying over how much she loved america. her boehnerish tears were not very well received at all. to even suggest there are homophobic undertones here is a pretty significant stretch akin to suggesting that mockery of boehners orange fake tan comes from deep-seated racism.

        •  No! Wasn't that her rebound? (0+ / 0-)

          That focus on New Hampshire weekend when someone asked her why she does it, or how does she managed to put up with it? The slight emotional twinge was real and people reacted in a very positive way. Boehner, on the other hand, is way over emotional, both unable to control it and doing it at totally inappropriate moments.

        •  I can't really speak to the Hilary situation. (0+ / 0-)

          I will ask though, as I wasn't here at the time: was there a degree of derision, then and since, from members of this site? If not (and allowing for the fact that Hilary Clinton has, understandably, a far higher standing here than John Boehner) then I would suggest that this situation only serves to demonstrate a double standard.

          I do however agree,  as I stated in my prior comment, that I do not believe that there is an element of homophobia in the comments on Boehner's proclivity for tearing up. I can see how one might make such an association, but I do not believe the evidence bears out.

      •  I would state: (0+ / 0-)

        1. In regard to the representation of Boehner on this site: yes, it's a double standard. (If we can point to a similar example of a member of the opposite gender being routinely mocked for crying however, then my assertion would be severely dented.)

        2. If I understand correctly, it has been your experience that crying is not looked upon favorably in a professional setting, regardless of gender. While this lines up with my own experiences, I would make the point that this is primarily a result of behavioral expectations for such a setting.

        (If I misunderstood your point however, I apologize and look forward to clarification.)

        3. It has been my own experience that in a broader setting, it is generally far less acceptable for men to cry, or show other forms of emotion that might suggest vulnerability, than it is for women. I for one would like this to change, and for both genders to be equally able to express emotion as appropriate.

        •  So would I like it to be considered acceptable (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Mortifyd

          but I would also consider it appropriate to skewer crocodile tears no matter what gender eyeballs they emit from.

          Boehner is being manipulative. He deserves skewering.

          Before you win, you have to fight. Come fight along with us at Texas Kaos.

          by boadicea on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 02:18:59 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Crocodile tears are indeed to be sewered. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            boadicea

            However, I believe the diarist's point still stands in that much of the discussion on the site regarding Boehner's behavior centers on his tears first and foremost, and the reason for said tears a distant second.

            Were Boehner to take to the floor in a skirt in some misguided attempt to win praise from the progressive demographic (a wholly fantastical premise, I realize) then it would be quite appropriate to single him out for the disingenuousness of his behavior; it would be entirely another to mock him, however, for his dress sense.

            Two asides:

            1. Thank you for your responses; they have been most thought-provoking.

            2. Firefox's internal dictionary fails to recognize 'disingenuousness'; this displeases me.

        •  therein you will find the key (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Praxical, Mortifyd
          1. In regard to the representation of Boehner on this site: yes, it's a double standard. (If we can point to a similar example of a member of the opposite gender being routinely mocked for crying however, then my assertion would be severely dented.)
          this is the point -- there is no other politician who cries like this because, men and women alike, theyre all grownups. boehner is the only one who behaves like this, which is precisely why he is roundly mocked for it.
          •  I refer the right honorable jaym... (0+ / 0-)

            ...to their own prior comment regarding Hilary Clinton. Unless you are suggesting that the problem lies not with Boehner's crying per se, but it's frequency?

            •  different (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Mortifyd

              hilary cried once, and was mocked for it -- which i used merely to point to the fact that grownup politicians of either gender who are perceived to either be emotionally unstable or using emotional outburst to pander, are usually mocked.

              what you were asking about was whether there was another politician who is routinely mocked for crying, and my point is that, as far as i can tell, boehner is the only american politician -- now or at any other point in history -- who routinely does this. outside of death or great tragedy, i cant think of any other politician who has ever cried like this while in office.

              http://cincinnati.com/...

              http://0.tqn.com/...

              http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/...

              http://www.gothamresistance.com/...

              http://muledesign.com/...

              http://3.bp.blogspot.com/...

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              •  I'm not sure if that's entirely accurate. (0+ / 0-)

                Bear in mind that I've had only the time for cursory research here, but much of what I'm reading about Hilary Clinton's teary moment strongly suggests that she was both applauded at the campaign stop at which the incident occurred, and that later, it served to re-energize interest in her campaign.

                Regarding other politician's that have cried on multiple occasions; Barack Obama would qualify. He cried at a 2008 campaign stop while discussing his recently passed grandmother; again at a 2012 campaign stop; again to his campaign team, while thanking them for his reelection; and most recently during his announcement regarding the Sandy Hook tragedy.

                Of course, this example may serve as the example that disproves that men are disproportionately penalized for crying in politics. Then again, if we are now entering a brave new age in which it is acceptable, it seems all the more reasonable to suggest that more attention be paid to Boehner's disingenuous use of tears, and far less attention be paid to the tears themselves.

  •  My sense of it has been that it's not about (13+ / 0-)

    "a man" crying. It's about the totally inappropriate and irrational situations at which he cries. If the Republicans had Virginia Foxx up there as Speaker (double sign of the cross and a finocchio to ward that thought off!) and she did the same thing, we'd comment on that, also.

    The last time the Republicans were this radical, they were working to elect former slaves to Congress. What a difference a century and a half makes!

    by jayjaybear on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 12:01:13 PM PST

  •  See your point but (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Chi, boadicea, raincrow, FloraLine

    I think Boehner's weeping wouldn't be ridiculed less if he were a woman.

    It's here they got the range/ and the machinery for change/ and it's here they got the spiritual thirst. --Leonard Cohen

    by karmsy on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 12:02:34 PM PST

  •  My boyfriend cries all the time (5+ / 0-)

    and it does annoy me. I mean once he cried during a tylenol commercial because he felt bad for the woman who had a headache!

    I don't think crying is a sign of weakness, but I think you look a little silly if you cry at everything. Its like if you went around laughing at everything. Laughing isn't bad of course, but what would you think of someone who laughed all day?

  •  I will always mock the tears of a drunk (7+ / 0-)

    Boener's crying probably has more to do with alcohol fueled sentimentality rather than sensitivity. I'm secure in my masculinity and I sometimes cry at a sad movie or tear up when something really moves me, but I can see a difference between his tears and mine. I've spent plenty of time around drunks and stoners of all types in my youth, not to mention being counted in their ranks. I've seen this before.

  •  Sorry, Boehner's tears are bull$#^!. (6+ / 0-)
    But a look at Boehner’s record during his two decades in Congress shows a man who has voted against nearly every boost for the working stiff. There’s no empathy for those with the longest shots at the American Dream in his voting pattern. Instead, we see a politician who is hard-hearted in his legislative treatment of the people now coping with the kind of economic conditions in which the Boehner family grew up.
    For whatever reason, Boehner’s life story never gave him a broader governing vision for the folks he knew in his hometown of Reading, Ohio. When he turns on the waterworks while talking about them, it raises two questions:

    Is Boehner crying because he escaped that fate? Or because of the person he has become — a politician whose votes show he couldn’t care less for the people he left behind?

    New York Times, Dec 15, 2010
    The Tears of John Boehner

    -6.38, -6.21: Lamented and assured to the lights and towns below, Faster than the speed of sound, Faster than we thought we'd go, Beneath the sound of hope...

    by Vayle on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 12:11:30 PM PST

  •  I think the Diarist has it wrong. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Visceral, a2nite
    But under all of this "fun" is the unstated and very nasty assumption that REAL MEN DONT CRY.
    No. The assumption is that crying often signifies weakness. If you are crying, it means:

    - That you are losing the fight.
    - That things are being taken from you.
    - That your allies are being hurt
    - That you are being ridiculed, and/or
    - That you are powerless to prevent these things from happening.

    I, for one, hope that we serve Speaker Bohener large helpings of these dishes for the next couple years! Especially the "powerless" part!

    Should men cry or not? I don't know. But I do know that any pre-conceptions about crying men (or crying women) come from those who read the DKos front page, not those who write it. This isn't about gender. It's about strength and weakness.

    More importantly, We Liberals need to get something straight about what it means to govern. The government controls the military and the means of law enforcement. Voters want these institutions controlled with strength not with emotion, and certainly not with weakness. Like it or not, if we want to win elections, we had better learn not look like winners, not whiners.

    The person who cries may make a nice dad or boyfriend or girlfriend or therapist. But not a commander-in-chief.

    Can we please stop getting sand kicked in our faces and do a little kicking of our own? Please?

    •  You forgot one.. empathy. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jop

      perhaps something our leaders could have a bit more of.

    •  sadness is not a "leader" emotion (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ManhattanMan

      It's not appropriate for a leader to show sadness because that's not what people look to a leader for.  When something bad happens, people are expecting action ... and instead they see someone they look to for strength and guidance breaking down over how terrible it all is.  On one level yes, it is weak; you're answering an attack or defeat with surrender, with an emotion more suited to curling up in a ball than striking back.  At the very least it's self-indulgent; you're wallowing in your own emotions instead of rallying the troops.  A leader has to model the attitude and behavior that they want from their followers.

      Democrats would never tolerate this kind of behavior from our own leaders, man or woman.  Even if they were free to do so without stigma, would you really want Pelosi, Reid, or Obama to react this way?

      To the extent that society expects men to be the strong ones, then a lot of this still holds true.  However sad you may feel, crying is not what the people around you need from you right now.

      Something's wrong when the bad guys are the utopian ones.

      by Visceral on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 02:38:39 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Ain't nothing wrong with real tears (8+ / 0-)

    with real emotion behind them.

    Bohner's are as fake as his tan.

    Obama: self-described moderate Republican

    by The Dead Man on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 12:15:36 PM PST

  •  marvin - I agree (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jan4insight, raincrow, WakeUpNeo

    I don't like the pictures of Boehner crying and wish people wouldn't post them.

    "let's talk about that"

    by VClib on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 12:18:15 PM PST

  •  He cries at times when he's nervous, emotionally (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    raincrow

    engaged by whatever stimulus. It could be frustration, or elation at having been elected Speaker the 1st time, ( or 2nd time).
    As some have suggested it may be due to his alcohol use.
    Or it could be sleep deprivation caused by apnea, alcohol use or tobacco use, or all three.
    He really cries like an ordinary joe, (which he is)  who hasn't been trained by military service, law school, police service, etc. to keep his emotions hidden.

    Nancy Pelosi, who is probably equally "emotional" has been trained by years as a woman pushing against the glass ceiling, to be a little more in control of her instincts in a professional setting. I think that's natural and understood.

    He's a Republican, it's ok to ding him for his goofy bawling. That's my feeling. It actually takes pressure off effeminate men to have an ordinary joe who goes out there and bawls at the drop of a hat, seems to me.

    You can't make this stuff up.

    by David54 on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 12:19:32 PM PST

    •  ...Er... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Mortifyd

      "He really cries like an ordinary joe, (which he is)  who hasn't been trained by military service, law school, police service, etc. to keep his emotions hidden."

      Find me an 'ordinary joe' who cries because a meeting at work went poorly (not "you're fired" poorly, but "Your proposal wasn't accepted, try again" poorly) and ... you won't have found an ordinary Joe, you'll have either found a manipulative prick or a weird little bastard with nearly zero control of himself.*  Not quite sure which Boehner is yet.

      That hasn't got anything to do with military service or law school or anything else.  Normal indoctrination in social norms -- even very liberal ones -- mean that your average Joe isn't going to break down crying at his place of work over relatively routine stuff.  Hell, neither is your Average Jill.  

      * I'm deliberately not including the guy whose dog died, wife left him, car broke down, and now that bad meeting is the last straw.  

  •  No es lo mucho, es lo seguidito. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Keith930, TexMex

    Don't feel like translating today, sorry.  Bad case of vertigo.

  •  and as someone who used to go to the tanning (0+ / 0-)

    salon (back in the 80's), I think we all should lighten up on the orange jokes, too.  Quit hating on the tanners.

    Oregon: Sure...it's cold. But it's a damp cold.

    by Keith930 on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 12:26:28 PM PST

  •  An emotionally unstable SOH doesn't bother you? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SilentBrook, Mortifyd

    Your decrying of a supposed DK overdose of testosterone completely misses the point. Would you be saying the same thing if somebody brought up Boner's yelling, drunken behavior, & other signs of a dangerously unstable personality?

    Remember Savita Halappanavar!

    by Brown Thrasher on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 12:29:41 PM PST

    •  No (0+ / 0-)

      I don't consider a man who lacks control over their crying impulses as "emotionally unstable"

      Perhaps he also suffers from "hysteria"?

      Don't you see that the idea that control over emotions, or the labeling as "emotionally unstable" has been used for centuries to put women and effeminate men in "their place"?

      I'm not saying you are doing that... I'm simply worried that this ridicule of Boehner has its roots in the very same mental bias that as progressives we should watch out for and recognize. We all have them (goodness knows I have plenty of biases I have to work against).

      •  yes, but (0+ / 0-)

        "emotionally unstable" has also been used to describe emotionally unstable people. the guy is a political leader who wields enormous power and starts crying at the drop of a hat. its unseemly, bottom line.

        •  bottom line (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          WakeUpNeo

          He's emotionally unstable (diagnosis from TV) because he's an alcoholic (diagnosis from TV), but anyway it's "unseemly".

          Glad we're making rational criticism of this person and not just judging them on superficial characteristics and stereotypes.

      •  I do... (0+ / 0-)

        "I don't consider a man who lacks control over their crying impulses as "emotionally unstable""

        ...Reread what you just said there.  He's someone who lacks control over an emotional impulse.  That's pretty much the definition of unstable.

        It's one thing to have an emotional impulse, and even to show it in appropriate situations.  It's entirely another to have an impulse and be -completely unable- to control it in inappropriate situations.  

        I mean, I can be turned on by a girl walking by, but, somehow, so far, every single time (barring certain situations with girlfriends that don't count) I somehow manage to prevent myself from reaching out and groping random hot women in public.  Or from frantically masturbating in public.  Or from crushing the nose of a random asshole with my fist.  Or from phoning in bomb threats to various organizations in protest of their policies.  While I may have certain emotions and impulses, I can control them and limit the socially or situationally inappropriate expressions of them.

  •  crocodile tears we used to call them... (5+ / 0-)

    Fakey McFakerson tears.  Drama class tears. A little Vaporub under the eyes tears - not real tears for any actual reason of emotion or sensitivity.

    If he was a sensitive man then crying is nothing to be mocked or ashamed of - but he's NOT.  He's a manipulative POS in the Beck mould - playing for the camera.

    And we sail and we sail and we never see land, just the rum in the bottle and a pipe in my hand...

    by Mortifyd on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 12:30:37 PM PST

  •  mr.u cries all the time (7+ / 0-)

    The man cries when he hears the Everly Bros. He cries at emotional times and happy times. They are genuine tears and I love him for it.

    The thing is, he seldom cries for himself. He cries when he sees someone else's happiness or hardship. Boner cries for his own hard time sweeping his dad's bar.

    "The scientific nature of the ordinary man is to go on out and do the best you can." John Prine

    by high uintas on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 12:40:27 PM PST

  •  Boehner turns tears on and off at will (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BachFan, susanala

    He 's a fake. Real men do cry. Others fake it.

    "I have spent many years of my life in opposition and I rather like the role." - Eleanor Roosevelt. I would like to add that I am a happy atheist!

    by Rogneid on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 01:03:42 PM PST

  •  You know what? You are right, and (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BachFan, marvinborg, WakeUpNeo

    though we, here, also consider the source of those tears, it doesn't help to change a thing by making fun of a man, no matter the man, for crying. I'll keep this in mind.... because I have made jest of his crying, too.  

    I would rather spend my life searching for truth than live a single day within the comfort of a lie. ~ John Victor Ramses

    by KayCeSF on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 01:17:59 PM PST

  •  It is annoying (0+ / 0-)

    But inevitable.  It doesn't matter the gender, anyone who holds such a position and cries as much as Boehner will get derided.  

    There is truth on all sides. The question is how much.

    by slothlax on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 01:34:36 PM PST

  •  manipulative crocodile tears don't count n/t (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite, Mortifyd

    Something's wrong when the bad guys are the utopian ones.

    by Visceral on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 01:56:36 PM PST

  •  Thank you for this diary (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    marvinborg, cks175, WakeUpNeo

    That has bothered me too- why do we have a problem with a man crying or being emotional?

    It's not like there aren't dozens of other things we could make fun of Boehner for-

    i agree we should knock it off on the crying piece

    The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. --George Orwell

    by jgkojak on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 01:59:35 PM PST

  •  Winston Churchill was a public cryer. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jop, marvinborg, Praxical, WakeUpNeo

    Bob Hawke, the rough and tough ex-PM of Australia, was known to cry in public when particularly upset. There is in fact, if I remember correctly, even a name for this predilection. I have no problem with men or anyone crying. I am surprisingly unaffected by such displays. One must always look behind the tears to perceive where they are coming from in order to know whether to be affected by them. Some tears are moving displays of genuine grief; some are mere adornments of a shallow sentimentality.

    For if there is a sin against life, it consists perhaps not so much in despairing of life as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this life. - Albert Camus

    by Anne Elk on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 02:43:19 PM PST

  •  Sudden, excessive displays of emotion like........ (0+ / 0-)

    uncontrolled crying are symptomatic of alcoholism.  I think that Boehner has a drinking problem and that's nothing to laugh about.  One because it's a disease, two alcoholics are not stable individuals.  It scares me.

  •  I've seen lots of Republican sneering at Obama (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    WakeUpNeo

    for tearing up sometimes, and I hate it. I think real men do cry, and I respect them for it. (I also think that Boehner is not much of a man, being not much of a human being, and I don't respect his tears particularly.)

    Of course it's true that Democratic leaders who cry in public will be derided for it (but not by me!). It's also true that a woman who wept as much as Boehner does would almost certainly have a short political career. But the diarist is asking us to do better than that. Perhaps if we accept that real men can cry, eventually we might be able to accept that tough smart responsible women can cry too.

    Why bother to mock Boehner for being getting weepy easily? It's not as though he doesn't offer enough in the way of actual venality and stupidity to pick on.  

  •  When I had to put my cat down (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    WakeUpNeo

    after 15 years, I cried like crazy.

    I have no problem with that. There are times when one can't control themselves.

    But when someone that has no problem pushing to deny the least among Americans to have even less benefits, and has no problem with that, cries over some stupid thing, it is to be mocked.

    In fact, I'd like to see some Democrats cry whenever our safety net is attacked. It makes me cry when I see a bunch of rich assholes treat our social safety net as some collection of money that should be manipulated by Wall Street.

    That brings tears to my eyes. Breaks my heart. Worse than watching my dear cat of 15 years take his last breath.

    That is where I am at. I see nothing to take the tears from my eyes.

    •  Did you happen to see this recent diary (0+ / 0-)

      by Wendy's Wink?

      A New Year of Sorrow

      Many of us are feeling much like you; here was my thought on WW's writing:

      Thank you for taking your time to post this...

      this message should be required reading for each and every member of the United States Congress, every Governor and Mayor, and every state legislature.

  •  I belong to two groups that encourage men to (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    WakeUpNeo, marvinborg

    cry. In this culture we've been massively brainwashed to "get a grip on ourselves," and "suck it up and carry on," and all that nonsense for centuries.

    Crying is the very best show that Boehner could possibly put on. Too bad it's associated with such a controversial figure. Don't forget that Obama cried when describing the murdered children of Sandy Hook.

    I'll take crying from men anytime, anywhere. We big strong guys desperately need it.

    "They come, they come To build a wall between us We know they won't win."--Crowded House, "Don't Dream It's Over."

    by Wildthumb on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 08:19:45 PM PST

  •  If it was a woman speaker crying at EVERY turn... (0+ / 0-)

    ... like Bohner does, she would also be made fun of. It has more to do with perceptions of power than masculinity.

  •  While I hate Boehner, I do agree with this. (0+ / 0-)

    I have also been treated like garbage for the same reasons. This machismo bullshit needs to stop. Period.

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