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Every time I hear someone talking about Hillary Clinton for 2016, I think what a drone.  Not only is it a disrespect to Joe Biden it also doesn’t make any sense.  Hillary is not as popular as everyone thinks.  I cannot remind people too many times that she was supposed to be the winner the first time Barack Obama ran.  Then just as now, she was the “presumptive nominee”.  She ran a poor campaign and got quite desperate after citizens began casting their votes and it was clear that Barack Obama was going to be competition.  Hillary and the media believed she would win Iowa, she came in third.  By the time the primary got to New Hampshire a state she was supposed to win the president tied her, so she is not a winner.  She offered no real vision, just herself. Simply, Hillary lacks authenticity—sounds like anyone you know.   The President could have chosen her as vice President, and he did not.  Would Hillary have been able to negotiate with Congress the way Joe Biden has on so many important legislation, remember her attempt at healthcare reform.    .....let's go below......

The argument for her candidacy is that she did a great job at state, but The President sets the agenda not the Secretary of State.  Hillary is a Representative of the President and nothing more, remember his line during one of their debate “I look forward to you working for me too, Hillary”, she works for him.  She is tasked with outreach and building relations, but when Secretary Clinton shows up in a foreign country she is not representing herself or her personal desires, she is a representative of the American Government and President of the United States.  It’s not her personal show.

Hillary and her supporters are acting as if she is entitled to the presidency, why?  Is it still because she was Bill Clinton’s wife?   She was at best a mediocre Senator.   She does not stick her neck out for anything or anyone—she didn’t do it for the American people.  Not against Bush and the war in Iraq either by challenging him in 2004, or her vote for his war which she still refuses to say was a mistake; and not on Benghazi.

Why didn’t Hillary go out there and talk about Benghazi instead of letting Rice do it.  Benghazi was the State Departments jurisdiction, so why didn’t Hillary go out there?  The country wanted answers and she refused to step up in a crucial moment, her 3am test—could it be that she was thinking about 2016. She let Susan Rice take the heat for Benghazi and never came to her defense.    The attacks on Rice were unjustified, she did not try to squelch them, and John McCain is her friend—how come she had no influence on him?

All I know is the Benghazi incident was the one line of attack that could have cost President Obamas re-election, and was a headache even after he won.  I think the best thing Hillary could is spare the country and take her name out of contention as a possible candidate for 2016.

Joe Biden has been an incredibly loyal asset.  I feel bad for Vice President Joe Biden who has been working hard for the past years supporting and fighting for The President’s agenda.   The president chose Mr. Biden not just because he was an outstanding member of congress, or because of his grasp of the issues that came before congress, or his expertise on foreign affairs but because he believes Joe is a man of conviction who sincerely cares about America, has concern for her citizens and wants to do good without compromising too much.   I applaud the president for giving Joe the initiative in the recent debates on gun control and the debt negotiations.

I think Joe has earned the honor of the Presidency.  I don’t doubt that Joe is ambitious and wants to be president just as much as the next person, but I get the feeling Joe would be humbled by that experience.  He does not seem to have a thirst for power or is driven by an ideological agenda and had never tried to get rich from being in congress. Plus Joe’s story is very compelling; I really think this is Joe’s time.

Poll

Would you support a Biden/Warren Ticket in 2016

32%19 votes
34%20 votes
24%14 votes
8%5 votes

| 58 votes | Vote | Results

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TLS66

    It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book"-Nietzsche

    by the Pollitikat on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 06:07:30 AM PST

  •  Hatchet diary (13+ / 0-)

    I'm not her biggest fan, but there's a lot of unfair shots in here.

    As for Biden, I have three concerns:  his foot in mouth propensity, his age and, most of all, the poor track record incumbent VPs have when running for president.

    Chuck Hagel for Defense Secretary

    by Paleo on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 06:11:43 AM PST

  •  Biden can't win (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lieblingskartoffel, Deep Texan

    that's why people talk about Hillary.  

    Now before you go off on me, there are an entire slew of reasons why he won't win.  In fact the only way he would win a primary, is if he was running unopposed.

    Just because he was front and center on the disastrous fiscal cliff bill, doesn't mean he could win the presidency.  

    People tend to talk about people they think can win.  Many people, GOP included, believe Mrs. Clinton would be a formidable candidate for POTUS.

    Visit the Iraq Memorial Quilt @ http://www.iraqmemorialquilt.com

    by pollchecker on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 06:11:44 AM PST

    •  I totally disagree (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TLS66

      Hillary is not as popular as people believe, I think it is a trap going for Hillary.  Biden can win if Democrats gave him a chance.  I think his appeal is broader than Hillarys.  

      It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book"-Nietzsche

      by the Pollitikat on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 06:20:09 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  feel free to disagree (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Deep Texan

        but the polls would support what I said.  Biden will never get the nomination.  You can diss Mrs Clinton all you want but she has withstood a lot of dissing over the years.  some of it has been deserved and some of it hasn't.

        Besides, this is all speculation based on a lot of assumptions.  I don't put money on assumptions because they are usually wrong.   A lot can happen over the next 4 years.

        Visit the Iraq Memorial Quilt @ http://www.iraqmemorialquilt.com

        by pollchecker on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 06:28:13 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  I remember when people (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        the Pollitikat, chicagoblueohio

        LAUGHED at the prospect of Bush I winning in 1988 and the prospect of Gore winning in 2000.  Yes, I know he didn't take office, but let's face it, he won the popular vote and probably won the electoral vote as well (Gore won in the most likely scenarios in the "media recount". One had him winning by 171.  One had him winning by THREE votes.  The media, desperate to legitimize the spoiled princeling, latched onto the less likely scenario where Bush won by 1,665 votes). So, when you factor in the likelihood, Gore actually won in 2000, the track record of incumbent VPs winning is 50-50.

        Hillary was supposed to win in 2008, wasn't she? She didn't ... she was bested by someone who was an unknown community organizer when she was FLOTUS, someone who was an obscure state legislator when he won her U.S. Senate seat.

        This is not necessarily to say I'd vote for Biden in a primary, but his prospects should be afforded the same respect that Hillary's are.  Personally, I think they're both a bit old for it.  Perhaps someone younger like Sherrod Brown, Kirsten Gillibrand, Maria Cantwell, or Deval Patrick.

        "Valerie, why am I getting all these emails calling me a classless boor?"

        by TLS66 on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 07:12:13 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Russ Feingold would be good. (0+ / 0-)

          But we'll just have to wait and see who the media decides.  They pick the people they want to win and ignore the hell outa the people who are best qualified for the job.

          This "Trickle Down" thing has turned out to be somebody pissing on my leg and tellin' me it's rainin'.

          by swtexas on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 07:26:23 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  thats a bit much, really (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Deep Texan, Bill W
          Hillary was supposed to win in 2008, wasn't she? She didn't ... she was bested by someone who was an unknown community organizer when she was FLOTUS, someone who was an obscure state legislator when he won her U.S. Senate seat.
          i like how you're acting like obama was some unknown hayseed state legislator when in fact, from the moment he delivered his keynote a the convention in '04, he became basically an international political rock star, and went on to run the most sophisticated and effective campaign in presidential history. its not like hillary lost to john hunstman or something.
          •  no it is not a bit much (0+ / 0-)

            it is the truth.  that is exactly what happened

            It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book"-Nietzsche

            by the Pollitikat on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 09:04:39 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  yes, she lost (0+ / 0-)

              to obama. but so try to spin it as though she lost to some unknown is absurd. obama was probably the most famous man in the world at the time of the '08 campaign, and was an absolute juggernaut on the campaign trail. not to mention the fact that within weeks of the outset of the primary campaign season, bidens campaign was over, and he was facing the same exact field as hilary.

              •  was he more famous than Hillary? (0+ / 0-)

                and I doubt he was the most famous man in the world.  he was famous in the sense that he was doing the actual foot work in his campaign.  How long had Hillary been on the scene before Obama came along.  Everyone knew she wanted to be president some day.  She had a twelve year head start and she still lost.

                It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book"-Nietzsche

                by the Pollitikat on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 09:58:42 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  I doubt he was the most famous man in (0+ / 0-)

                the world when he beat her in Iowa

                It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book"-Nietzsche

                by the Pollitikat on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 10:07:43 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  I think the point is... (0+ / 0-)

                  ...that nobody who had been paying attention since the 2004 convention should have been surprised that Obama was a strong contender in the 2008 primary.  To suggest that he just came out of nowhere and sort of stumbled his way into the nomination is, I think, revisionism. He was a strong candidate, and he put together an incredibly effective campaign.

        •  I like the idea of Deval Patrick too (0+ / 0-)

          I wouldnt mind Gillibrand but I am not sure she could get the top spot, maybe VP for her, I am not opposed to it

          It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book"-Nietzsche

          by the Pollitikat on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 09:03:39 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  She is even popular here in the south. (0+ / 0-)

        Especially among women.

      •  Biden's tried twice, (0+ / 0-)

        both times as a powerful Senator with a fairly high profile. He never made it past Iowa. Why not? I'm not going to comment - but it certainly indicates that he's got trouble winning elections outside Delaware.

        •  despite his popularity with capitol (0+ / 0-)

          hill and the political junkies, I dont think he was well known.  I know when he was picked I had many people asking who what he was about.  People usually don't pay attention until you are truly on a national stage, the VP has done that for him--he will get more consideration if he decides to run this time.

          It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book"-Nietzsche

          by the Pollitikat on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 09:18:09 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Oh this ought to go over well (4+ / 0-)

    Oh and just an FYI yes she as popular right now as everyone thinks.

    Why is it that, as a culture, we are more comfortable seeing two men holding guns than holding hands?

    by jsfox on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 06:18:27 AM PST

  •  Senator Kirsten Gillibrand (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Wee Mama

    I think Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand will be nominated and become the first woman president.  I think she is part Jewish too.  She is a Hillary protege of sorts, impeccably credentialed.  She has worked in the executive branch (HUD).  A driving force in the repeal of don't ask, don't tell.  Outperformed Obama somewhat in this election, with 72% of the vote. Especially  compared to a polished, attractive younger candidate like Ms. Gillibrand, the Vice President would come off as sort of a hack.  I believe the Hilary will throw her weight behind her.

    •  If it is Scott "Wall Street" Brown (0+ / 0-)

      ...then isn't it also Kirsten "Wall Street" Gillibrand?  I understand that she is a shrewd and liberal woman, and that makes me wonder why she collected more donations from Wall Street than even Scott Brown.

      Are you a Green who has difficulty telling Democrats and Republicans apart? Well, I have difficulty telling Greens and Maoists apart.

      by Subversive on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 08:57:55 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  your characterization of the SOS job is wrong (6+ / 0-)
    The argument for her candidacy is that she did a great job at state, but The President sets the agenda not the Secretary of State.  Hillary is a Representative of the President and nothing more, remember his line during one of their debate “I look forward to you working for me too, Hillary”, she works for him.  
    this is an extreme oversimplification of what the secretary of state does. the reason people make a big deal over cabinet-level secretaries is that they, in fact, set the policies of the united states government in their areas of concern, subject, of course, to white house approval. and clinton, in particular, is said to have even more latitude in this respect than most of her predecessors, thanks in large part to the agreement she made with the president when accepting the position. to suggest she's essentially a store clerk working directly for the president, and just doing whatever he says, basically disqualifies the remainder of your opinion. and, if that weren't the case, the sugggestion that biden, a man who came in 200th in a field of 6 dem primary candidates in '08, and who will be in his early 70s in 2016, is a more viable and deserving candidate than hilary -- or that supporting her is in some way an affront to biden -- is ludicrous on its face.

    i also take issue with the idea that hilary would be just as vulnerable to right wing attacks at the was in the 1990s. since then, she has been an accomplished united states senator AND a highly accomplished secretary of state. her credentials, on taking office, would be far and away above what any other president has brought to the job in my lifetime. in short, it was easy to mock her when she was "just" the presidents wife. at this point, however, she is one of the most accomplished and respected members of the united states government. big difference.

    •  why wasnt she able to unite them in (0+ / 0-)

      her corner in 2008, she had been in the senate eight years at that point.  and since she has been at the state department i dont think the hill is partial to her.  remember some felt that she was picked for state over kerry the first time some were not happy about it.  

      It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book"-Nietzsche

      by the Pollitikat on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 10:03:20 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Is this a trolling diary or something? (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    NewDealer, sewaneepat, tbounnak, Wee Mama

    Just curious, as it seems to me that this diary is full of somewhat poorly reasoned points:

    - The American people cared little about Benghazi during this election cycle - to think that it will be a major point of contention in 4 years is somewhat stretching in my opinion. Yes, I am sure if Hillary runs then the Repubs will bring it up, but as an issue that galvanizes the public against her; I think not.

    - As for Biden being a loyal asset - could not the same be said about Hillary? She was in a hard fought primary against Obama, and in an an impressive display of unity chose to work for him and the country.

    - As for Hillary just being a representative of the President's positions - isn't that the same as Biden? Is he out negotiating his own deals or is it in conjunction with the President's views?

    - You are bringing up Hillary's placement in the Iowa caucus? Joe Biden got like 1% of the vote.

    I want to point out that I am not saying that it will be a walk in the park for Hillary or that she is even the best candidate - we'll have to see who else may emerge. But that your points against her does not make a lot of sense to me.

  •  I like Joe. BUT (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    the Pollitikat

    I didnt vote for him in a primary because of reasons outside his control; his health history is just not good enough. I dont think he would survive a Presidential term.

    And now that he is older, there is more reason to be concerned. Being President today requires people with no history of health problems. I am sorry to say that, but its true. The job eats healthy people alive, and older people with health problems in their past should do what they can do from the second position or in the other critical positions.

    This ain't 1890 or 1920. Its too big and too fast for most people now.

    Figures don't lie, but liars do figure-Mark Twain

    by OregonOak on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 06:42:06 AM PST

    •  I agree his health might be the biggest (0+ / 0-)

      negative for him

      It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book"-Nietzsche

      by the Pollitikat on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 06:56:28 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  yes, that, and (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        tbounnak

        the fact that every time he's run for president he has finished at the wrong end of the pack. people are suddenly going to be invigorated with energy over the candidacy of a 72-year old biden, when a 64-year-old biden shot himself in the foot right out of the gate in '08, and also lost badly in '88? meanwhile, hillary clinton came within an inch of securing the nomination in '08, losing only because of the unprecedented electoral machine built by a cone-in-a-lifetime candidate, she has a huge base of democratic support, is an internationally respected figure and one of the most accomplished, senior members of government with a significant portfolio of policy responsibilities, and considering her the front-runner is some sort of affront to biden, who is a proven losing commodity at the presidential level? that doesnt make an ounce of sense.

        •  she didnt win in 2008 (0+ / 0-)

          she lost what was supposed to be a sure thing--and I think that is what will happen again--but this time in the general.  I think Hillary will lose in a general.

          It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book"-Nietzsche

          by the Pollitikat on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 09:19:25 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  she lost to (0+ / 0-)

            the guy who eventually went on to become the president of the united states. and she only lost after raising hundreds of millions of dollars and collecting a large swath of delegates, very nearly besting him. if that loss is a disqualifier, why, exactly, is biden even in the conversation?

        •  I am not necessarily Pro-Hilary either.. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          the Pollitikat

          We should start cultivating some of our rising stars. Especially since the Repub bench is so weak and scattered ideologically. Obama is likely to create a Democratic platform which is solid and consensus-based, and the next nominee will be able to bounce from it and reach pretty far.

          Christine Gregoire
          Jeff Merkely
          Deval Patrick
          Russ Feingold
          Kristin Gillibrand
          Elizabeth Warren
          Jerry Brown
          Nancy Pelosi

          pop into mind, and there are more Democrats who would make great Presidents. This is not a royal position. Sometimes, most of the time, its best if a non-legacy hire rises through the ranks.

          Figures don't lie, but liars do figure-Mark Twain

          by OregonOak on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 10:06:58 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  I owe Hil a vote (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Deep Texan, TNforkerry

    if she runs I'll knock doors....

    "Fascism is attracting the dregs of humanity- people with a slovenly biography - sadists, mental freaks, traitors." - ILYA EHRENBURG

    by durrati on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 06:43:15 AM PST

  •  I'm not too worried here (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tbounnak, Wee Mama

    I'm sure we'll find a bright, clean, articulate candidate that we can write a storybook about.  

  •  Sometimes it is just tough luck.... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    NewDealer

    Hillary was, and is, imminently qualified to be President of the United States. She just had really unfortunate timing 5 years ago to have to run against BO. Come on, that was an epic dual between the two and certainly made BO a better candidate. Now I agree that it was sad at the end of the primaries as she and Bill kind of took the low road and her handling of the Iraq war vote and her not taking responsibility for it cost her. But her 4 years as SOS has only burnished her image and credentials. And as much as she represents PBO policy, just being Hillary Rodam Clinton lent more weight to US policy. That said I think the repubs are concern trolling. They would love to run against her and hyper-ventilate every little issue with her. From Whitewater, V Foster, to more recently Benghazi and her health. Sad to say I think her time has come and gone. She could have very easily been the first female president and I think she may have a tough time letting that go. I also don`t think it will be Joe Biden though. He too has had his chances and couldn`t seal the deal. in 2013 a  73 year old candidate is a liability to the ticket (see J McCain). There are a lot of good young potential Dem candidates out there, lets give some new names a chance.

    Politics is like driving.... (D) forward, (R) reverse.

    by Tribecastan on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 06:56:22 AM PST

  •  I'm not sure I see the difference between (4+ / 0-)

    this

    Hillary and her supporters are acting as if she is entitled to the presidency, why?
    and
    I think Joe has earned the honor of the Presidency....I really think this is Joe’s time.
    Can you explain?

    Certainly from our standpoint, this gives us a sense of momentum -- when the United States has accolades tossed its way, rather than shoes. - PJ Crowley

    by nsfbr on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 07:06:57 AM PST

    •  I think Joe has come up (0+ / 0-)

      and deserves a shot, more than Hillary.  ok maybe that was not a good explanation.  But I stand by both statements.  I am just offering a different opinion

      It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book"-Nietzsche

      by the Pollitikat on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 09:08:06 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  My opinion, and that's all it is (0+ / 0-)

        is that you have no idea, at all, about what Hillary has done in terms of public service.  

        I am open to either of these fine people running for the nomination, as well as others.  

        Finally, I find this diary a hit job based on zero factual information.  Again, my opinion.

        Certainly from our standpoint, this gives us a sense of momentum -- when the United States has accolades tossed its way, rather than shoes. - PJ Crowley

        by nsfbr on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 09:26:28 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  And by the way, (0+ / 0-)

        it wasn't that long ago when you posted a diary that said Biden wasn't viable and should be replaced.  At least your banality is consistent.

        Certainly from our standpoint, this gives us a sense of momentum -- when the United States has accolades tossed its way, rather than shoes. - PJ Crowley

        by nsfbr on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 09:29:34 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yeah, I know -- but I was thinking about the (0+ / 0-)

          future and since Obama did not replace him I have adjusted, whats wrong with that.  if I have to choose between Biden and Hillary, I choose Biden I think he is more real and effective

          It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book"-Nietzsche

          by the Pollitikat on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 04:56:33 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  he has become more viable (0+ / 0-)

          that is clear, and I dont think Obama will back Hillary over Biden, I think if Biden wants it Obama will support him, it would look crazy for him not to support his Vice President

          It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book"-Nietzsche

          by the Pollitikat on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 04:57:57 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Is 2016 set in stone? (0+ / 0-)

    Rubio  (or one of their major hispanics) or Ryan for GOP and Clinton,  Cuomo, Malley for Ds?

    Is being a white male now a disqualifier for tickets with major national profiles?

    •  I wouldn't mind O'Malley (0+ / 0-)

      but Cuomo? No way!

      "Valerie, why am I getting all these emails calling me a classless boor?"

      by TLS66 on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 07:17:14 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Cuomo who? (0+ / 0-)

        If Dems make the mistake of nominating Cuomo, I will sit out the election. If Cuomo become the president, this place will be on fire everyday.The fight over Barack Obama been progressive/moderate conservative would be nothing compare to what will happen if Cuomo get the chance to sneak into the white house as a Democratic president. I won't mind him as a republican president though.

      •  I am not for Cuomo (0+ / 0-)

        and I am from New York

        It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book"-Nietzsche

        by the Pollitikat on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 09:08:54 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Cuomo's a traitor to the Democratic party (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          the Pollitikat

          plain and simple.  Imagine if Obama tried to get six Democratic U.S. Senators to caucus with the GOP. That would have been major news and prompted calls for his impeachment and removal from office -- not just from Democrats, but from fair-minded independents and even fair-minded Pugs.  Cuomo basically did that with the NY state Senate and nary a peep.

          "Valerie, why am I getting all these emails calling me a classless boor?"

          by TLS66 on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 09:48:48 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  aww, feel sorry for those white males (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      FloraLine
  •  Didn't Biden vote for the Iraq War? (0+ / 0-)

    eom

  •  I am hoping that our candidate will be younger (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TLS66

    than either Biden or Clinton. The presidency is the longest ultramarathon there is and they both deserve some rest after decades of service.



    Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary? . . . and respect the dignity of every human being.

    by Wee Mama on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 07:27:50 AM PST

  •  Bullshit (0+ / 0-)

    VP Biden, or Secretary Clinton, or some other person may all decide to run or not for the nomination for President.

    None of them is to be anointed before hand.

    To suggest that considering the merits of one is disrespecting the other is a paragon of strawman on display.

    Before you win, you have to fight. Come fight along with us at Texas Kaos.

    by boadicea on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 08:08:44 AM PST

  •  I like winning presidential (0+ / 0-)

    elections. If Hillary is still polling as strong in 2016 as she is today, she will be the winning ticket,and I will support her.

    If she opts out,and Joe wants in, I would support him as well,if he is viable.

  •  Hillary has the best chance to win if (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Jeremimi

    she runs.  I don't think Biden can win. He is a walking gaff machine and sometimes looks goofy.  I would vote for him because I vote for democrats . I think a better choice if Hillary doesn't run would be John Kerry.

  •  I wish before a die that we can nominate and elect (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Subversive, the Pollitikat

    a Liberal again, like the days of old when the Democrats did big things and had the courage to shape a future for all Americans and not just the wealthy and connected.

    I'm sick of DLC type Democratic elites. One Clinton was plenty and President Obama describes himself as an 80s repuglian.

    Is there no alternative the far right and capitalist destroyers but traditional conservatives?

    FDR said that he didn't know who he was going to put in his cabinet, but he did know that none of them would know how to get to Wall St.

    I'm sick of our Wall St overlords. Will no one rid me of these pests?

  •  i do not like hillary & will not vote 4 her alan (0+ / 0-)

    grayson should run i would vote for him he a real fire brand
    he would be good against christy i would buy a lot of popcorn to see the both of them debate each other

  •  Is Biden even planning to run? (0+ / 0-)

    I figured him for a Cheney sort of VP, with no aspirations for the Presidency.

    Are you a Green who has difficulty telling Democrats and Republicans apart? Well, I have difficulty telling Greens and Maoists apart.

    by Subversive on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 08:51:13 AM PST

  •  A lot of people, both women and men, remember (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Bill W

    Biden from the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings.  The way Biden treated Anita Hill and other women who were willing to speak about Thomas was reprehensible.

    And people remember this, even after 20+ years.  I was at Hunter College in 2011 for the conference "Sex, Power and Speaking Truth: Anita Hill 20 Years Later."  When Biden appeared on the screen in a video, the theater erupted in hisses and the very elegant and proper 60-something woman sitting next to me muttered, "Snake!"  I don't think people who remember Biden and the clubby tone he set for those hearings will easily be brought on board as supporters.

    And I also will not forget Biden's comment to progressives that they should “stop whining and get out there and look at the alternatives."  Believe me, I've been looking for alternatives.  Biden's not on the list.

    I'm glad that Biden is loyal to Obama and has been helpful as Vice President.  But I would not support him as a candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination nor as a the Democratic candidate for president.  We can do much better.

    •  That is certainly... (0+ / 0-)

      ...one of the things I think of when I see Biden.  I also think about the numerous votes he cast over the years for anti-choice legislation.  He would not get my vote.  I hope the party can do better.

  •  The diarist (0+ / 0-)

    clearly hasnt been looking at the polls if he thinks Hillary "is not as popular as everyone thinks". Last CNN poll had Hillary at 57/37 for the White House..among ALL voters including Republicans.  She's ahead by 30-40 points in early Democratic primary polls in almost every state polled by PPP. And she just earned her 17th most admired woman award by Gallup.

    The nomination is hers if she decides to run. Let's stop pretending like Gillibrand or anyone else is going to swoop in and become a serious threat, especially when Gillibrand herself has already endorsed her for 2016, as did Nancy Pelosi.

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