Skip to main content

Chuck Schumer
Add Sen. Chuck Schumer to the list of Democrats that say there won't be a negotiation over the next debt ceiling:
“I think that risking government shutdown, risking not raising the debt ceiling, is playing with fire,” Schumer told reporters in the Capitol, in response to a question from TPM. “Anyone who wants to come and negotiate, and say ‘we will raise the debt ceiling only if you do A, B, C’ will not have a negotiating partner. And if then they don’t want to raise the debt ceiling, it’ll be on their shoulders. I would bet that they would not go forward with that.”
The White House has been forceful in their own assertions that there won't be any negotiation this time around; the ultraconservative Sen. John Cornyn, on the other hand, is the latest to say that the Republicans aren't going to budge unless Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security all get hit, and to very specifically threaten a government shutdown if the GOP doesn't get their way. If all parties here are sincere, that means that there is no deal possible, and that there will, in fact, be a government shutdown, right?

We'll see. There's still two months before this next self-inflicted fiasco deadline, after all; these are just the opening bids. Well, non-bids.

EMAIL TO A FRIEND X
Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags

?

More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  I wrote my representative. (3+ / 0-)

    That would be the newly elected Denny Heck!

     I'm not an expert on economics, but I do know that austerity is a horrible policy. If they can, it would be nice if the Democrats could tell the Republicans to shove it.

     Sometimes I think pragmatism is simply a code-word for conservatism (in my opinion), because that ends up as the catch-all excuse for Democrats letting Republicans get their way. Bipartisanship would fall under that too (again my opinion).

     They lost the election, so the Republicans don't deserve to get their way.

  •  Who believes THAT? (4+ / 0-)

    In addition - who really wants to default?

    "The two pioneering forces of modern sensibility are Jewish moral seriousness and homosexual aestheticism and irony." Susan Sontag

    by Shane Hensinger on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 06:36:37 PM PST

    •  Not me -- on either... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Shane Hensinger, 3goldens

      Move Single Payer Forward? Join 18,000 Doctors of PNHP and 185,000 member National Nurses United

      by divineorder on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 06:41:48 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  The President said he won't negotiate (3+ / 0-)

        He also said he will never allow a default and won't take some of the more "creative" pathways some are suggesting to prevent one if Congress refuses to act. Therefore we can deduce that he will agree to anything to prevent the kidnappers from killing their hostage - he's essentially said so.

        He could change his mind and try an end run using one of these creative solutions - that's always a possibility. I just don't know.

        "The two pioneering forces of modern sensibility are Jewish moral seriousness and homosexual aestheticism and irony." Susan Sontag

        by Shane Hensinger on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 06:46:04 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  I believe that Senate Democrats will not (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Beetwasher, Eyesbright

      negotiate regarding the debt ceiling. Why should they? If they lack a motive to negotiate over the debt ceiling , then it is more reasonable to believe that they will not negotiate regarding the debt ceiling.

    •  Not I (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      apimomfan2, GideonAB, 3goldens

      Dems are ALL talk.

      •  and they often seem (0+ / 0-)

        to think that Republicans will play nice, and look for a nice compromise.

        Then they get all shocked that their stern words have not worked their magic on the Republicans.

        The Republicans only understand force. The Dems need to get with the program and force the Republicans to agree.

        Just hoping is not a strategy

        Blake: I am an enemy of the Federation but it is corrupt and oppressive. I will destroy it if I can

        by GideonAB on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 07:07:45 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Wait - Civil Rights Acts, Medicare , what were you (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Terri, Eyesbright

        saying again about all talk?

        •  A different time, a different party. Before the (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          rbird, musiccitymollie

          3rd Way,  the DLC, and pay-to-play for Dem committee assignments  in the House and Senate.  The time you reference is over 40 years ago.  When there was a Democratic wing in the Democratic Party.

          SS adds not one penny to the deficit.
          Raising the income levels subject to SS withholding isn't talked about.  Reducing benefits is talked about instead.
          Negotiating lower drug prices for Medicare/Medicaid, like the VA, would go a long way to reduce costs.  But that's off the table.  Talk of raising eligibility age and cutting benefits is talked about instead.

          When Gingrich and the GOP shut down the govt in 1995 and 96 it was because they insisted on reducing SS/MM benefits and Clinton refused.   Gingrich lost a lot of GOP House seats after that.
          Clinton had an easy re-election.

          Same show now with a new cast of characters.
          Every time deficit hysteria brinksmanship is whipped up the ploy is always to cut retirement benefits for people who've paid into the system for 30-40 years.

    •  About 150 teabaggers and their supporters (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      beltane, 3goldens

      I.e. about 1/3 of the country. Also known as the bottom 33%ile. It would be a shame if we let the peanut gallery take the rest of us down with them.

      We're not going to default.

      "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

      by kovie on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 06:52:54 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Quick, there's enough time to rush out a movie (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LordMike, smileycreek

    "Kindergarten Slop" starring John Boehner as the fiesty Republican from Ohio who has over 200 spoiled brats in his care. He doesn't actually manage to solve any problems but he does give a real tear jerker of a performance.

    What's wrong with America? I'll tell you. Everything Romney said was pre-chewed wads of cud from Republicans from the last 30 years and yet he managed thru a combination of racism and selling the (false) hope of riches to get 47% of the national vote.

    by ontheleftcoast on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 06:36:41 PM PST

  •  Rs should loudly and repeatedly demand SS, Medicar (7+ / 0-)

    e and medicaid cuts 'or the economy gets it!'

    Everytime they do, they get that much closer to the 'golden ad' that will win the Congress... for The People.

  •  Expect a conga line of crazy until March (8+ / 0-)

    John Cornyn did not win back the Senate for the GOP

    Lindsey Graham and McConnell are facing Bagger primaries and have to dial the crazy to 11.

    As the Elites Come Together to Rise Above to Find a Third Way to do Rude things to the 99%

    by JML9999 on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 06:38:32 PM PST

  •  Please, Chuck (8+ / 0-)

    This is just silly.  No one believes this crap anymore.  

    Democratic Leaders must be very clear they stand with the working class of our country. Democrats must hold the line in demanding that deficit reduction is done fairly -- not on the backs of the elderly, the sick, children and the poor.

    by Betty Pinson on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 06:38:49 PM PST

    •  Why should they negotiate? And why (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TKO333, Beetwasher, Eyesbright

      assume that Senator Schumer is lying?
      I believe that Senate Democrats will not negotiate regarding the debt ceiling.

      •  Exactly (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        apimomfan2

        They will give away everything including ss cuts and then there is nothing left to negotiate!

      •  We saw this act during the HCR debates (5+ / 0-)

        When the WH, Schumer & Reid worked overtime to kill any discussion of single payer and the public option.

        Kind of like the new "realization" in DC that austerity doesn't help deficits, these same guys are probably now wishing they had put the PO in place.

        It's a familiar routine.  It's a show, more for the benefit of the Dem base than anyone else.  

        The GOP knows they'll still get most of what they want, simply because its all about what the corporate donors want.  Same as HCR, this stuff has been negotiated long before now.

        Democratic Leaders must be very clear they stand with the working class of our country. Democrats must hold the line in demanding that deficit reduction is done fairly -- not on the backs of the elderly, the sick, children and the poor.

        by Betty Pinson on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 07:01:01 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Assume what we are trying to prove (ie Schumer (0+ / 0-)

          is lying.

        •  Why is conspiracy theory so rampant (0+ / 0-)

          on this site? It doesn't do the progressive side any favors to indulge in vague conspiracy theories. I assume you have seen how they are used on the right to manipulate minds, ie Obama is an evil foreign creature out to destroy America. All to make implausible that all means, including government shutdown and global financial collapse is ok to stop the black menace.

          While I have said respect the power that the rich plutocrats, that doesn't mean we must bow down to what they want us to think. If progressives act like its all bad that will just lead many to act in self destructive ways, like disengaging from politics, giving up, not voting or convincing others to vote.

          I suggest, instead of giving into the negativity about things outside of our control, we should show that we have the Dems back if they hold strong. 2010 proved that we don't. Making that a permanent thing would be the downfall of progress for sure.

          •  The health care reform debate (0+ / 0-)

            was pretty boring to most Dem activists when it was going on.  People here and elsewhere in the progressive blogosphere skipped over most of the details and reported on the highlights.

            Those of us who followed it closely on an hour by hour, day by day basis learned a lot about some of our party's leaders in DC.  The way they operated was disappointing, to say the least.  A small cadre of Dem leaders forced changes and unnecessary concessions that will long resonate in health policy and may eventually cost a lot of people their lives and bring grief and suffering to many.

            Sen. Schumer's role is to come out early and make aggressive statements about how the Dems will hold the line against the GOP in order to rally the base, knowing full well that their word will be broken. It's a tactic to preemptively deflect the inevitable criticism when the whole strategy plays out.  To a lesser degree, Dick Durbin plays the same role.

            Those who followed the Fin/Reg negotiations the same way saw the same tactics used.  Rep. Barney Frank used the same tactics during that debacle.

            We have little ability to influence the GOP, but we need to hold our own leaders accountable.

            Democratic Leaders must be very clear they stand with the working class of our country. Democrats must hold the line in demanding that deficit reduction is done fairly -- not on the backs of the elderly, the sick, children and the poor.

            by Betty Pinson on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 07:27:48 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  Still, don't you think we should cheer him on ... (6+ / 0-)

      ... when he says something we agree with?

      Go Chuck!

      Boehner wrote the checks and now he needs to pay up!

      Please do not be alarmed. We are about to engage... the nozzle.

      by Terrapin on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 06:49:37 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  no we should cheer him (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        3goldens, mightymouse, midwesterner

        on when he keeps to that position for a significant amount of time and shows that he is serious by explaining what he would do.

        Schumer often sounds tough and I think "wow, he gets it". Then nothing happens

        Blake: I am an enemy of the Federation but it is corrupt and oppressive. I will destroy it if I can

        by GideonAB on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 07:01:38 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  That's an individual choice of course (4+ / 0-)

        But we can't let him know we're falling for his BS.

        SS and Medicare cuts are on the line - chained CPI is an awfully big price to pay just to show some party loyalty.  

        Democratic Leaders must be very clear they stand with the working class of our country. Democrats must hold the line in demanding that deficit reduction is done fairly -- not on the backs of the elderly, the sick, children and the poor.

        by Betty Pinson on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 07:02:59 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  DEMs don't negotiate, they capitulate (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      GideonAB, 3goldens, mightymouse

      Anyone buying these BS stories anymore ???

  •  Two more months of BS about debt, when we... (4+ / 0-)

    needs more jobs. DC and the media just love this drama. We need more spending not less.

    Plato's " The Cave" taught me to question reality.

    by CTDemoFarmer on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 06:42:29 PM PST

    •  That is for sure (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      apimomfan2

      What a tragedy that spending cuts have been elevated to the only thing that matters.  The media is mainly to blame.

      "The real wealth of a nation consists of the contributions of its people and nature." -- Rianne Eisler

      by noofsh on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 06:58:11 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  "Fasten your seatbelts. It's going to be a bumpy (0+ / 0-)

    night" (or 60 nights)...Thank you Bette Davis for a great delivery of that quote!

    There is no hell on earth appropriate enough for those who would promote the killing of another person, in the name of a god.

    by HarryParatestis on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 06:43:19 PM PST

  •  ''caving'' isn't the same as negotiating.....n/t (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    apimomfan2, 3goldens
  •  Personally I think that the the dems... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LordMike, Eyesbright

    should introduce legislation for large scale  tax assessments to cover our costs until such time as we can borrow again...

    Fox News, The triumph of stupidity over reason.

    by laughingriver on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 06:45:53 PM PST

  •  Words words words... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    apimomfan2, GideonAB, 3goldens

    ...what does "not negotiating" mean, Senator Schumer? What does "not negotiating" mean, President Obama? Et cetera.

    Does it mean allowing a default? Does it mean a trillion dollar platinum coin? Is there something else you mean by it?

    If you aren't willing to enunciate the concrete reality of "not negotiating", Republicans are going to be quite right in believe it to be an abstract threat.

    Kabuki isn't just a classical Japanese dance-drama.

    it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

    by Addison on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 06:46:12 PM PST

    •  Look at me, being way too coy... (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      GideonAB, apimomfan2, 3goldens, andgarden

      ....Senator Schumer, I DON'T BELIEVE YOU.

      it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

      by Addison on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 06:47:36 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  That's like asking what the definition of 'is' is. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      3goldens

      For the last four years 'negotiating' with republicans has meant democrats open with the offer they think republican will most likely accept.  Usually it's an item the republicans have been vigorously demanding.  The republicans immediately reject the offer as inadequate and commence their little dance routine.  'Not negotiating' means asking..."okay republicans, what are your demands for a permanent solution to this silliness?"  

      You have the right to remain silent. If you waive that right you will be accused of class warfare.

      by spritegeezer on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 06:59:18 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  let us (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    northcountry21st, mightymouse

    hope.

    The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

    by Laurence Lewis on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 06:47:39 PM PST

    •  why bother hoping (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      apimomfan2

      It no seems nigh on certain that the Democrats will negotiate with the Republicans.

      We have seen this movie.

      Obama starts out strong. Then after a number of weeks of little movement from the Republicans, Obama gets worried.  Then the Democrats compromise.

      Blake: I am an enemy of the Federation but it is corrupt and oppressive. I will destroy it if I can

      by GideonAB on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 06:58:05 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  This ceased to be even bad theater long ago. n/t (5+ / 0-)
  •  kabuki (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    apimomfan2, GideonAB

    Once again we'll talk all big and tough, then be told that the world will end oh noes! if we don't give the Repugs 98% of what they want.

  •  Dems have a lot more leverage than I thought (9+ / 0-)

    First, Repubs will absolutely not allow us to default. Simply not gonna happen no matter what they're saying and for all I know believe and intend, because the financial and corporate sector won't let them (although finance won't mind the threat of default to create epic arbitrage opportunities, but certainly not actual default which would be epically ruinous for it). Which makes all these threats, even if sincere, empty. Call their bluff and game's over for them. In fact all these threats of defaulting simply confirm to me that they're bluffing and know it, because they're making way too much noise too early on to be serious. Desperate's more like it and it reeks.

    Also, when they start screaming about how if entitlements aren't drastically cut they're gonna default, Dems merely need to ask them which ones, specifically, and in what specific ways. Let them own these cuts. They're not gonna do it. It's like the way they were with those billions in "tax expenditures" that they promised to cut but never specified. They're bullshit artists, that's all. They have no intention of specifying what they want cut because they know that they'll be tagged as the party that wanted to throw grandma from the train. All Dems have to do is say to them that if they want cuts, they have to say which ones. They won't do it. They're waiting for us to offer cuts. We must not.

    Between calling the debt default bluff and making them name the cuts they want, we have all the leverage we need. All we have to do is stand firm, and they'll stand down. On the sequester too, because they don't want it. The only thing they'll be left with is the budget, and they're not gonna shut down the government either. They'll be blamed for that too. They're all about bluffs. Call them, and we own them. Sure, their teabagger wing will have a fit. Let them. Division in their ranks is manna from heaven to us. Let them have their civil war already. We have a country to govern.

    "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

    by kovie on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 06:50:23 PM PST

  •  Right, Chuck.... I WAS born yesterday.... (4+ / 0-)
    Sen. Chuck Schumer: Democrats won't be negotiating on debt ceiling
  •  Fine shut it down (0+ / 0-)

    And we' ll the results.

    "The real wealth of a nation consists of the contributions of its people and nature." -- Rianne Eisler

    by noofsh on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 06:54:20 PM PST

  •  I've noted Obama's past tendency (5+ / 0-)

    to give in to hostage takers. And, I continue to note the unprecedented disarray the hostage takers themselves are in.

    From the second observation, I draw some solace.

    It's here they got the range/ and the machinery for change/ and it's here they got the spiritual thirst. --Leonard Cohen

    by karmsy on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 06:54:42 PM PST

    •  I absolutely agree with your excellent perspective (0+ / 0-)

      As for my perspective, after voting twice for President Obama, I see a shithead who cares nothing about anything except his legacy.

      Bill Clinton played the same game but for some reason I don't see him as a shithead other than his leaving his DNA on Monica Lewinsky's blue dress. And I voted for him twice too.

      The republicans have overplayed their hand. But like a shithead, President Obama fails to call their bluff so he leaves his second, Vice president Biden to do the dirty work of negotiating with turtle McConnell. So that leaves Boehner. Where? In the toilet with the blue dress.

      Knowledge is Power. Ignorance is not bliss, it is suffering.

      by harris stein on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 08:49:31 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  While Obama is (0+ / 0-)

        clearly a self-interested politician, therefore no saint, I'd seriously question whether others aren't a lot more deserving of the label "shithead" than he is. Yes, we need to watch him all the time; that's what this venue's for. He needs to be leaned-on to do the right thing, as would anybody in his shoes.

        Now, as for the new Republican chaos, I see it as unprecedented in several decades, and a probable game-changer in our favor. Figure, Obama just got his new taxes (I hate to say it) along a BIPARTISAN vote. This was after washed-up alcoholic has-been John Boehner tried to get his own austerity package through the House, failed to get his coalition together, and saw the vote flop, at a truly atrocious time, and in a most humiliating way. (I'm afraid the new Congress, which has convened since, won't improve Boehner's life or the feasibility of his job any.)

        I submit, this is quite a spectacular run-up to any new rounds of negotiation that take place between the WH and congress in 2013. I'm hopeful.

        It's here they got the range/ and the machinery for change/ and it's here they got the spiritual thirst. --Leonard Cohen

        by karmsy on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 07:36:19 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  There's A Difference (0+ / 0-)

    Shutting down the government by refusing to fund it—what Gingrich tried—is one thing; it will generate a lot of mad citizens and punish many innocents, both Federal employees and beneficiaries. But refusing to raise the debt ceiling is something else altogether. It would bring about a government shut down but also drive the US credit rating down still further, push up interest rates when the economy is least able to absorb that, throw the world financial system into chaos, and call into question the sanity of the Republican party.

    Republicans have no idea what they're risking. They must think this is like some disagreement between banker Cornyn and farmer Obama over next summer's crop loans.

  •  And Schumer never (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    3goldens, apimomfan2, mightymouse

    says one thing in front of the cameras then sidles off and does the complete opposite when he thinks no one is paying attention.

  •  And this breaks down per usual (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LordMike, wewantthetruth, Eyesbright

    supporters / non cynics like me believe him

    Critics / cynics assume he is lying.

    •  Not lying. Expressing wishes as if they are facts. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      apimomfan2

      it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

      by Addison on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 07:11:01 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  This reveals much of the reason for the (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Eyesbright

        divergence and animosity between supporters of the President and critics of the President. A large reason for the difference is mindset / the framework or paradigm and embedded attitudes that we begin with , our presuppositions .

        Fascinating . Well, I learned a lot about the critics of the President today. Just as you, perhaps , learned a lot about me and other supporters of the President.

        •  If this is your concern, I welcome your concerns. (0+ / 0-)

          it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

          by Addison on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 07:52:05 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  As if there is no history there to draw from? (0+ / 0-)

          My friend we have had 4 years of strong words and weak action from the white house and our democratic congress. This goes all the way back to Obama's FISA reversal. Remember that one? I do. Thats when I my mind was set...Obama will say anything to get votes and then turn around and do what ever he wants regardless of his promises. And this happens with dems in congress. I guess it happens with every slimy politician in this disgusting excuse of a functioning government...I wont just pick on Obama and dems.

          But to suggest that those of us who have watched this ridiculous charade over the last 4 years and have had enough of the theater, are just hardwired to criticize and be cynical is pretty much BS. I dont believe a word ANY OF THEM says. They all lie. They all suck. All of 'em. If the last decade of pathetic governing by this cabal of rich co*%suckers doesnt make you question WTF is going on here and mistrust every effing one 'em then I would argue you may be the one with a mindset that is impervious to fact and history.

          How I made it back home nobody knows,
          or how I survived so many blows.
          I've been thru Hell, What good did it do?
          You bastard! I'm suppose to respect you?
          I'll give you justice, I'll fatten your purse
          Show me your moral virtue first.
          Hear me holler and hear me moan.
          I pay in blood but not my own.

          - Bob Dylan

          Night after night...day after day. They strip your useless hopes away...

          by jonnyra on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 04:13:49 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  I want to be wrong. (0+ / 0-)

      For all I know Schumer and co. will do the right thing and deny the Republicans their demands. We have two full months of debate and speculation ahead of us, so we'll see.

       I'm skeptical because of the usual fallback to pragmatism and bipartisanship as excuses for capitulation. My tolerance for any Republican-friendly policies is low.

  •  In this thread: no one believes Sen. Schumer. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    3goldens, apimomfan2

    it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

    by Addison on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 06:59:15 PM PST

  •  who bought all the two things? (0+ / 0-)

    dems standing up. interesting.

    cheerleaders need not apply.

    by kravitz on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 06:59:25 PM PST

  •  Well then, I guess we can take that to the bank.. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    3goldens

    ...or, er, find someplace we can trust.

  •  Shut it down rethugs (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    3goldens, wewantthetruth

    Make the charge of Sedition stick like glue.

    "Political ends as sad remains will die." - YES 'And You and I' ; -8.88, -9.54

    by US Blues on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 07:04:52 PM PST

  •  PBO has one trick up his sleeve: (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lorell, LordMike

    the trillion dollar platinum coin.

    Can you imagine the tea baggers if that happens, and Obama's profile pic, with his head tilted slightly up in the air, is on the coin.  LMAO.  that alone would be worth a trillion dollars.

    Expose the lies. Fight for the truth. Push progressive politics. Save our planet. Health care is a right, not a privilege.

    by lighttheway on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 07:06:11 PM PST

  •  Well, this ain't like the debt fights in 2011 (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wewantthetruth

    The difference is that this Republican Congress approved the spending that bumps up against the debt ceiling.

    We had big debt ceiling fights in 2011. See, all the wing nut tea-party newbies in Congress that were seated in January of 2011 were all looking at a debt ceiling that was being pushed on by expenditures from the previous Democratically controlled Congress. The Dem Congress elected in 2008 passed the spending bills for fiscal 2011 that all ran through September of 2011. Back in 2011, the Congressional Republicans could say, "Heck, we didn't approve of this spending. We're not paying the credit card bill."

    Problem now it that the current Congressional Repubs allowed all this spending. They can't walk out on the check now.


    i just baptized andrew breitbart into the church of islam, planned parenthood, the girl scouts and three teachers unions. - @blainecapatch

    by bobinson on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 07:11:29 PM PST

  •  Debt Ceiling (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wewantthetruth, Eyesbright

    Tell the Repubs:  Go to Hell!  

  •  EVERY Democrat needs to join this (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Vote4Obamain2012, Eyesbright

    chorus.  They need to sing it together:  "we will not negotiate on the nations debt".

    Expose the lies. Fight for the truth. Push progressive politics. Save our planet. Health care is a right, not a privilege.

    by lighttheway on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 07:14:52 PM PST

  •  There will be negotiations.... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    apimomfan2

    Past performance is the best predictor of future results. I know that's the way I'd be thinking of I was a GOP congressman. I might just be bluffing, but I'd wait until 11:59 before folding.

    Will Obama and the Democrats call their bluff? I really hope so.

    •  Past performance best prediction (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      LordMike, Terri, Eyesbright

      when has the President screwed up, admitted he screwed up in a certain way, stated that he would not repeat that same mistake, and then gone ahead and repeated the same mistake .

      I find that historical events are unique (context).

      •  Off the top of my head... (0+ / 0-)

        Saying he wouldn't extend the Bush/Obama tax cuts on people making more than 200K (250K for couples) a year. That was certainly something he put out as a line in the sand, which he then retreated from.

        When did he admit he screwed up? Do you have a link? I'd actually be a lot more confident if he did.

        What I'm concerned about is that he really wants to address entitlements and the debt, even if the economy is still fairly stagnant, and will use the debt ceiling as cover. The Republicans will definitely try to squeeze concessions out of him, though, and will wait until the very last minute before folding. Will he call their bluff? We'll see. I sure hope you're right, though.

    •  WSJ Editorial Board (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      LordMike, ferg, Terri, Eyesbright, Overseas

      and tonight Chairman of Honeywell have slammed the wingers. pressure is building and will continue to do so and wingers will capitulate.

      this is not like any other time.

      last time the assholes did this it added to the deficit, $ 90 billion hit. they will own this and destroy their party for decades........within two years of midterm, wingers do not have the balls. political nuclear suicide. they cannot win on this one.

      mittens=edsel. no matter how much money is spent to promote it, if the product sucks, no one will buy it.

      by wewantthetruth on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 07:36:17 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  yeha, right. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    3goldens, apimomfan2, Kickemout

    Remember other times they said this kind of thing?

    "In the months before the election, and in the weeks after his victory, Obama had a clear position: The Bush tax cuts for income over $250,000 were ending. He would not sign any extension, and if Republicans refused to extend tax cuts for income below that level, he would hold them responsible for it until they did."
    or how aboutthis?
    "Obama was so firm on the $250,000 threshold that he reportedly told Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) that it was not even a part of the negotiations. "I get that for free," he said"
  •  Ha! What a Laugh! (0+ / 0-)

    Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice. Shame on you. Fool me a third time. Boy, you're really, really bad. Fool me, er, uh, fool me, I won't get around to being fooled, again, this time, unless I do.

    If, by some miracle, Democrats don't cave on this or on cuts to Social Security or Medicare, and manage to reduce military spending by so much as a dollar, then I'll start to believe them again.

    But they won't. So, I'm not going to treat this as serious, because we know he's just fooling.

  •  I understand why people are skeptical... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    smileycreek, Vote4Obamain2012

    We have very good reason to be, but I can honestly say that I've never heard such strong, consistent and definitive language coming from our side before on any issue.  The question is, how will they manage to do this?  Reading between the lines, the president and the congressional leaders seem to have a secret plan.  They so seem quite confident.  The plan could be caving completely, of course, but I think the president noted last year that all the tea party reps who were ready to kill the us credit rating, ended up voting yes on the compromise solution.  They bluffed successfully.  Hopefully, Obama has learned from that bluff.

    GODSPEED TO THE WISCONSIN FOURTEEN!

    by LordMike on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 07:36:32 PM PST

    •  I just wish O. hadn't announced (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      LordMike, Brown Thrasher

      at the first debate, unprompted, that his views on Social Security were very similar to Mr. Romney's.

      That makes me queasy.

      if necessary for years; if necessary, alone

      by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 01:23:21 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Actually, I was "grateful" that he spoke the (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SouthernLiberalinMD, LordMike

        truth.

        Surely, no one believes that he didn't mean it.  It IS consistent with his statements during interviews with newspaper editorial boards, etc., BEFORE and since his first inauguration.

        Here's an excerpt to a piece entitled "Obama Pledges Entitlement Reform," and the link to the piece:

        Obama Pledges Entitlement Reform

        “What we have done is kicked this can down the road. We are now at the end of the road and are not in a position to kick it any further,” he said. “We have to signal seriousness in this by making sure some of the hard decisions are made under my watch, not someone else’s.”

        By Michael D. Shear
        Washington Post
        January 16, 2009

        President-Elect Says He’ll Reshape Social Security, Medicare Programs

        President-elect Barack Obama pledged yesterday to shape a new Social Security and Medicare “bargain” with the American people, saying that the nation’s long-term economic recovery cannot be attained unless the government finally gets control over its most costly entitlement programs.

        That discussion will begin next month, Obama said, when he convenes a “fiscal responsibility summit” before delivering his first budget to Congress. He said his administration will begin confronting the issues of entitlement reform and long-term budget deficits soon after it jump-starts job growth and the stock market.

        “What we have done is kicked this can down the road. We are now at the end of the road and are not in a position to kick it any further,” he said. “We have to signal seriousness in this by making sure some of the hard decisions are made under my watch, not someone else’s.” . . .

        Mollie

        “If a dog won’t come to you after having looked you in the face, you should go home and examine your conscience.” -- Woodrow Wilson

        by musiccitymollie on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 09:56:03 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Well, the last time these guys talked tough we (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LordMike

    can see how that ended with the concessions on the Dem side flying fast and under the radar.  If I were a run-of-the-mill Reubs (namely most) I would laugh at Schumer's threat.  Get comfortable for the next episode.

    The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell

    by accumbens on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 07:44:36 PM PST

  •  no one has ever challenged me (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LordMike

    as much as the (SRA) Southern repulican army, the IRA of the american GOPee  or "conservatuve party has challenged the american people and the Democratic party, and not regretted it. It is time, right now, at this moment in history, to break the backs of the secessionists. What the "SRA" and its civilian branch, the republican party, is practicing, is economic terrorism. They are well funded and have lots of sympathizers all across the country and in other countries, but lets call this what it is, the destruction by economic terrorism, of the American republic. The only way to defeat this insurrection is for the Democratic party to come to terms with this obvious truth. If the Democrats cannot, or will not defend the republic as we know it, then the future of this republic is extinction. We will live to not recognize what the SRA and the GOPee party will remake of this country. The Teabag freakers, the talibangelists, their propaganda outlets, the broader republican party, are Americans in name only. They lust for one thing only, and that thing is money, and that lust is the reason the republicans have become toxic for this democracy.

    Sen. John Cornyn, on the other hand, is the latest to say that the Republicans aren't going to budge unless Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security all get hit, and to very specifically threaten a government shutdown if the GOP doesn't get their way
    This is their walk with treason, with the blessings of the corrupted supreme court.

    Conservatives, conserving the lifestyles of the rich and infamous. Those < 1/4 billionaires need not apply.

    by longtimelurker on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 07:46:52 PM PST

  •  The major struggles logic and (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Eyesbright

    reasoning on the part of the skeptics is quite exasperating. So, I am calling it a night.

    •  Allow me please to refer you to the article (0+ / 0-)

      I just posted entitled, "Obama Pledges Entitlement Reform."

      Many skeptics are basing their opinions on fact, as it is reported in major newspapers, or print media.

      Mollie

      “If a dog won’t come to you after having looked you in the face, you should go home and examine your conscience.” -- Woodrow Wilson

      by musiccitymollie on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 10:00:30 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  You may have already won a million dollars (0+ / 0-)

    Really!

    Ok, so I read the polls.

    by andgarden on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 08:28:39 PM PST

  •  Listen to Cong. Elijah Cummings (0+ / 0-)

    Tenth-term influential and progressive Cong. Elijah Cummings stated that Obama made a pretty good compromise on the fiscal cliff deal and is "a different person since he won re-election." He believes Obama and Biden have a "game plan" for dealing with the debt ceiling and he wouldn't have gone along with the fiscal cliff deal if he felt that Obama would yield to GOP hostage taking on the debt ceiling. For more on Cummings, read  

  •  yeah, yeah... how many times have we heard (0+ / 0-)

    that song and dance.  "we're not budging beyond $250 K... "  We ain't got the backbone to back that up.  Wish we did but we don't.  Boner whines, sheds a few tears, and we're handing him a hanky.  Draw the line, Chuck, and stand your ground!  Bet you can't.  Bet you two pounds of Croghan balogna from right here in NY-21 you won't stand your ground.  Hoping you do, but betting you won't.

    •  I think O played the $250,000 game masterfully. (0+ / 0-)

      If you remember, Schumer and others were at one time advocating drawing the line at 1 million - it was simple, it was easy to sell.  Obama held at 250 then settled at 400.  Arbitrary numbers? Not really.  250 was the line during the Clinton years for the top rate of 39.6%.  If you take Clinton's 250 and adjust for inflation you get a 2013 figure of 390.  All Obama caved on was adjusting for inflation.  That's a reasonable thing to agree to.

  •  The debt ceiling isn't about shutting down the (0+ / 0-)

    government. It is about paying for things Congress has  already authorized. It is like refusing to pay your Credit card bill. The only result is to ruin your credit. It doesn't 't save any money and will actually cost you more (in interest rate hikes) in the future.

    This shows that Senator Cornyn does not even understand what it is he is trying to use to blackmail the administration. Is that any way to run a government?

  •  I hate how the general public remain ignorant (0+ / 0-)

    It's apparent the democrats have a more complete plan of raising revenues, spending on stimulus, and budgets, that have a decent chance of success.  It's a pity that they don't start selling the complete plan now, allowing ample time to research and debate its points.

    I wish there was actual debate occurring on capital hill instead of back room deals and sound bites.

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site