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Packing for Costa Rica tonight, and my wife keeps telling me that if I would stay away from the computer I would already be finished.  

After reading various takes on it at dkos, had really hoped to see the     coin solution   chosen as a way out of the artificially created debt ceiling fail.

ABCNEWS
By Matthew Larotonda

 

Jan 12, 2013 6:27pm
White House Denies Call for Trillion-Dollar Coin to Avoid Debt Ceiling

The Obama administration has killed any notion of minting trillion-dollar platinum coins to solve the nation’s debt ceiling woes.

In a written statement released today, White House Press Secretary Jay Carney says there are only “two options” to deal with the looming need for the U.S. government to pay creditors for federal funding it has already spent. Minting the proposed currency to pay it off and avoid an impending battle with Capitol Hill is not one of them.

“Congress can pay its bills or it can fail to act and put the nation into default,” he writes.

Carney blames Congressional Republicans for having “played politics” during the last negotiations over the country’s borrowing limit in summer 2011. The stalled talks resulted in a downgrade of the U.S. credit rating by Standard and Poor’s.

and
“The President and the American people won’t tolerate Congressional Republicans holding the American economy hostage again simply so they can force disastrous cuts to Medicare and other programs the middle class depend on while protecting the wealthy,” the statement reads. “Congress needs to do its job.”
Now that's great news!  
Hope its just not talk,  and that  the safety net will be protected!

Would like to think so, but Bernie Sanders said again the other day he is not sure the President will protect it from cuts.

Do our part

We should continue to be heard.  Here's are some ideas from

Campaign for America's Future

Common Sense For The Budget Madhouse

Don't get sidetracked by the debt-ceiling spin. We lay out seven common-sense principles to guide the important policy fight ahead. The overriding principle: Make the top priority putting people back to work and growing the economy, not weakening the economic supports of seniors and low-income people.
Read Robert Borosage's seven points of common sense for the budget madhouse»

Sounds good to me.

The following graphic is full of win as well!

6:57 PM PT: Democratic Congressman Nadler responds......

"The Congressman Who Jump Started 'Mint The Coin' Criticizes The White House For Ruling Out A Bargaining Chip

Brett LoGiurato    | Jan. 12, 2013, 8:05 PM | 347 | 10

http://www.businessinsider.com/...

Here's Nadler's full statement on the situation:

"It's really a shame that the administration is ruling out one of the very few bargaining chips it has with Republican extremists who are intent, once again, on using the debt ceiling as a means of political blackmail. That leaves us just two options of which I'm aware to gain leverage against GOP hostage takers: the 14th amendment and repealing the debt ceiling altogether through legislation I'll soon introduce. We must be prepared to use every weapon within our arsenal to prevent defaulting on our debts and sending our economy into a tailspin."

Nadler was the only member of Congress to explicitly promote the trillion-dollar coin option. The top four Senate Democrats wrote President Barack Obama a letter on Friday urging him to "take any lawful steps" to work around the debt ceiling, but they did not specifically endorse the coin as an option.

Nadler's statement is further evidence that Democrats are somewhat dumbfounded by the administration's decision to rule out the trillion-dollar coin option. Earlier, a Senate Democratic aide told Business Insider that "it's certainly a strange negotiating strategy to go out of your way to decrease your leverage by taking options off the table."

http://www.businessinsider.com/...


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Comment Preferences

  •  Where are you going in CR? (8+ / 0-)

    And I want the 14th Amendment, since the Supreme Court has already set precedent for the solution we prefer.

    To avoid starting dumb wars, punish the dumb people who vote for them.

    by joesig on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 04:22:36 PM PST

    •  Sounds reasonable to me joesig, and probably (6+ / 0-)

      easier than selling the coin.

      Move Single Payer Forward? Join 18,000 Doctors of PNHP and 185,000 member National Nurses United

      by divineorder on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 04:30:29 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  what Supreme Court precedent (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      divineorder

      are you referring to?

      •  Sure. Perry vs US. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        divineorder

        The 14th Amendment seems quite clear to me, and to a number of constitutional scholars I've been reading, and I don't understand Obama's unilateral disarmament.  It's not clear what would happen if Obama said the 14th Amendment says what it looks like is says, and it's not even clear who would be the damaged party with standing to challenge it.

        In 1935, the Supreme Court held that despite the Civil War context, the amendment clearly referred to all federal debt.

        "While [the 14th Amendment] was undoubtedly inspired by the desire to put beyond question the obligations of the government issued during the Civil War, its language indicates a broader connotation," the majority wrote in Perry v. U.S. "We regard it as confirmatory of a fundamental principle which applies as well to the government bonds in question, and to others duly authorized by the Congress as to those issued before the amendment was adopted. Nor can we perceive any reason for not considering the expression 'the validity of the public debt' as embracing whatever concerns the integrity of the public obligations."
        The law at issue, which tried to override the validity of a bond offering, "went beyond the congressional power," the Court ruled, setting a precedent that has not been overturned.

        Because the government borrows based on its full faith, Congress doesn't have the authority to undermine that confidence by reneging on its obligation to its lenders, the ruling declared.

        "To say that the Congress may withdraw or ignore that pledge is to assume that the Constitution contemplates a vain promise; a pledge having no other sanction than the pleasure and convenience of the pledgor," reads the opinion, delivered by Chief Justice Charles Evans Hughes. "This Court has given no sanction to such a conception of the obligations of our government."

        To avoid starting dumb wars, punish the dumb people who vote for them.

        by joesig on Sun Jan 13, 2013 at 12:09:56 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Trillion dollar coin (5+ / 0-)

    Just wanted to say it once.

    Have a great trip DO.  Peace

    "Differences in political opinion are as unavoidable as, to a certain point, they may perhaps be necessary." George Washington

    by civil wingnut on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 04:33:34 PM PST

  •  I'm actually loving this! (10+ / 0-)

    It's like the White House is just goading the republicans and mocking them for even thinking they might take the country to default. I think this really is the best approach. Continue to point out that it is solely the republicans who want to put the country into default. I hope Obama holds strong on this position and absolutely refuses to negotiate with them in any way. To the point of not even answering their phone calls.

    Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

    by reflectionsv37 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 04:38:15 PM PST

  •  I always thought the platinum coin (16+ / 0-)

    would turn out to be just another shiny object.

    But it did make good theatre as an interesting sub-plot.

    I'm afraid that as usual we won't know exactly what protecting the social safety nets, any of them, are going to mean until after the fact.

    It's well known how the majority of the public feel about these issues and always have.  The majority really aren't that stupid even with all the propaganda of pretzled interpretations, dubious manufactured crises, and highly questionable multitudinous projections into the future.

    Nonetheless, it's important to advocate for sound logic and a  humanitarian future.

    We've always been willing to sacrifice for a purpose within reason.  Sacrificing for the wealthiest 1%, perhaps ever but unquestionably within a hundred years of our history, and for an enormous military/intelligence complex is both illogical and inhumane.

    More: Some men think the Earth is round, others think it flat; it is a matter capable of question. But if it is flat, will the King's command make it round? And if it is round, will the King's command flatten it?

    by blueoasis on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 04:45:21 PM PST

    •  Thanks for the comment, blueoasis. (11+ / 0-)

      Agree wholeheartedly.

      I found Borsage's take on thisinteresting  

      In any case, “shared sacrifice” is for suckers.  It is neither just nor sensible to demand sacrifices be shared by the predator and the prey.  It doesn’t make sense to ask everyone to sacrifice when the top 1 percent has captured 93 percent of the country’s income growth as it did in 2010.  It makes no sense to cut spending on everything when long-term deficits are driven by one thing – our broken health care system.  And it makes no sense to cut everything without being clear about what we need to build.

      At the end of World War II, our debt burden was about 125 percent of GDP – far higher than it is now.  Yet our leaders were focused on how to put the GIs back to work and avoid a return to the Depression.  So they enacted the GI bill to educate a generation.  They subsidized housing and built the suburbs.  They converted wartime industries to peacetime development.  They launched the Marshall Plan to rebuild Europe and create markets.  They built the interstate highway system to pave way for a national market.  They fought over deficits and budgets, but they did what needed to be done. And they built the first broad middle class in the world’s history that made America exceptional.

      They fixed the economy.  They generally ran deficits and added to the nominal debt.  But the economy grew far faster and by 1980, the debt was down to below 40 percent of GDP and not a concern.  They are remembered as the great generation.  We might learn a thing or two from them.

      Move Single Payer Forward? Join 18,000 Doctors of PNHP and 185,000 member National Nurses United

      by divineorder on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 04:54:03 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yeah, and the fact that the banks own the joint, (0+ / 0-)

      and everyone's happy that we won't be challenging their position in being the main issuer of our money supply, makes lots of progressive sense.

      Cuz goodness knows, we wouldn't want any QE for the people which doesn't first run through the banks as a form of credit.

      That might mean cutting the banks out of their profits just a bit.

      And SS isn't as important as giving banks a profit.

      Sheese.

  •  off the table is all the rage.. (5+ / 0-)

    Huge face palm. Who the fuck advises the President, or is a terrible negotiator all by himself? He's a great campaigner, and a decent guy, but still...

    This Rover crossed over.. Willie Nelson, written by Dorothy Fields

    by Karl Rover on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 04:50:06 PM PST

  •  show down (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    NLinStPaul, divineorder, FiredUpInCA

    Double Dare!!!!

    who will blink (not Obama, not this time)

    "oh no, not four more years of hope and change?" Karl Christian Rove

    by anna shane on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 04:53:17 PM PST

    •  Ha, anna shane, 'double dog dare you ' !!!!! (8+ / 0-)

      However, as kos wrote the other day that, based on past results, Obama often backs away from threats he makes.  

      I 'have my fingers crossed', for sure, but 'not going to hold my breath' .

      Move Single Payer Forward? Join 18,000 Doctors of PNHP and 185,000 member National Nurses United

      by divineorder on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 04:59:52 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  past results are nothing (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        divineorder

        he won his second term, he owes us not them.  And, he knows it and he's quite glad about it. Betcha?  

        "oh no, not four more years of hope and change?" Karl Christian Rove

        by anna shane on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 05:51:15 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Then why (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          cslewis

          is the Bush cuts still in effect for those who make between 250K & 450K?

          That was a promise and a threat that the amount wouldn't go up.  But it did, meaning Republicans got 99.4% of what they wanted.

          Republican tax policies have led to financial conditions which have caused Republicans to demand cuts to programs they have always opposed.

          by AppleP on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 06:53:32 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  apples (p) and oranges (0+ / 0-)

            he wants to make a grand bargain, he wants to get an agreement in place that will last, and allow us to get our economy going.  He is willing to cut social security, just not benefits or the age limit.  Without the threat he's eager and  willing to compromise.  

            That's him, he was that in the primary and he's still that.  He'll offer them something less than he did before, but more than our left (which includes me) wants. No one will be entirely happy, he'll leave no one out.  

            He won't balance the budget with cuts to the needy, but he'll probably make some cuts on the upper middle class.  He gave them that break, but he'll take it back in closing loopholes and in eliminating certain subsidizes.   He's got professionals in place, he has a plan and he knows his own limits.  

            "oh no, not four more years of hope and change?" Karl Christian Rove

            by anna shane on Sun Jan 13, 2013 at 12:59:27 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

  •  Good. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    divineorder, FiredUpInCA

    Had the feeling it would backfire. The MSM would make sure the public thinks President Obama was printing the Platinum coin for spending "liberal agenda". It sounded good on the blogs but politically not wise.

  •  The White House Must be Reading (5+ / 0-)

    billmon. And that's a good thing.

    This aggression will not stand, man.

    by kaleidescope on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 04:55:31 PM PST

  •  I still think this was a right wing (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    divineorder, shrike

    plot to make us look stupid. I hope that all those here who fell for the trillion dollar coin "idea" are humbled by this experience.

  •  We have all the time in the world (6+ / 0-)

    to deal with more important matters. May as well take as much time on administrivia--whether or not the government is actually going to pay for the spending it authorized--as we can.

    Meanwhile, the economy dithers. Wealth concentrates, The planet boils.

    The Class, Terror and Climate Wars are indivisible and the short-term outcome will affect the planet for centuries. -WiA "When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill..." - PhilJD

    by Words In Action on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 05:05:52 PM PST

  •  Wall Street transaction tax. (5+ / 0-)

    Las Vegas needs to stay in Las Vegas and get out of Wall Street.

    Sign my White House Petition Enforce the KEEP in the Second Amendment We don't have a problem with gun control, we have a problem with gun owners controlling their guns.

    by 88kathy on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 05:08:39 PM PST

    •  Great, let's do it! (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      88kathy, Karl Rover, DuzT, lineatus

      Did you see this?

      German campaign for Robin Hood Tax produce new video - "Difficult Labour"
      In this funny German video a reluctant banker tries to avoid the inevitable.  

      Berlin (17 Sept. 2012) - Oxfam Germany has released a hilarious new video in support of the campaign for a Financial Transactions Tax (FTT or more commonly referred to as the Robin Hood Tax).  

      Move Single Payer Forward? Join 18,000 Doctors of PNHP and 185,000 member National Nurses United

      by divineorder on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 05:20:02 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I would love to see us get organized. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        divineorder

        Searched the White House web site for a petition on Transaction Tax.  Once again there is nothing.

        I would think all of our boilerplate issues would have a petition at that site.

        There is not even one up for Keystone.  Well there is one.  Keystone support.

        We can do quick issue petitions the same way, but our boilerplate stuff should really be up there.

        Sign my White House Petition Enforce the KEEP in the Second Amendment We don't have a problem with gun control, we have a problem with gun owners controlling their guns.

        by 88kathy on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 05:32:00 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  So submit one (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          divineorder, 88kathy, blueoasis

          Nothing stops you. Promote it here, and you'd likely get the required 25k signatures pretty fast.

          Doesn't mean anything would happen with it, but at least it would be out there.

          •  I can't do everything!!!!! My signature line (0+ / 0-)

            Contains my petition which has a massive 27 signatures, it seems we are keeping our vocal chords dry.

            No peeps from us.  

            Lots of pithy beard stroking. tho.

            Sign my White House Petition Enforce the KEEP in the Second Amendment We don't have a problem with gun control, we have a problem with gun owners controlling their guns.

            by 88kathy on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 06:43:57 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Just because people don't agree with the first (0+ / 0-)

              petition you've written doesn't mean that they won't like a different one. It's worth a shot.

              •  You know what. If I start promoting many (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                divineorder

                petitions I might get a reputation for a petition floozy.

                No, there is something deeper going on here.  The heavy hitters are not even putting up a paragraph or two on their favorite subjects.

                The cool kids are against the White House Petition site.  The only time I have ever been line leader is driving in the snow and being the slowest one.  The line leaders here don't want to play.  Why?  I don't know. Crash the gate and mill around.  I don't think that was the plan.

                I have been pounding my petition and am averaging 1 signature a day.  Well a little less than that, 27 in a month.  I think you have to promote these things.  I don't think they sign themselves.

                Sign my White House Petition Enforce the KEEP in the Second Amendment We don't have a problem with gun control, we have a problem with gun owners controlling their guns.

                by 88kathy on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 08:02:00 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

        •  Looking forward to HR 6411 being reintroduced (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          88kathy

          http://www.robinhoodtax.org/...

          Take the Personal Pledge
          With the erosion of living standards for many, and new attacks almost daily from Wall Street-funded politicians, all Americans need a new contract, a binding relationship for their security, for their families, and for future generations.

          To achieve these goals, National Nurses United is launching a new campaign, for all:

             

          Jobs at living wages to reinvest in America.
              Equal access to quality, public education.
              Guaranteed healthcare with a single standard of care.
              A secure retirement with the ability to retire in dignity.
              Good housing, and protection from hunger.
              A safe and healthy environment.
              A just taxation system where corporations and the wealthy pay their fair share.
          I hereby pledge to take actions in support of these campaign efforts, starting by sharing this information with my friends and social networks.

          Move Single Payer Forward? Join 18,000 Doctors of PNHP and 185,000 member National Nurses United

          by divineorder on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 06:02:16 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  So I wonder if my SIL who is no longer talking to (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            divineorder

            me because of gun control would sign it if I put it out there.

            We might as well face facts here.  I'm not Kevin Bacon.  I have been pounding for a month on my petition and have 27 signatures.  

            I don't think I am the best front man for this job.

            Sign my White House Petition Enforce the KEEP in the Second Amendment We don't have a problem with gun control, we have a problem with gun owners controlling their guns.

            by 88kathy on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 06:46:50 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  Zero chance. Would be the right thing, but ZERO (0+ / 0-)

      chance of happening.

      Happy little moron, Lucky little man.
      I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am!
      —Spike Milligan

      by polecat on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 07:32:44 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  if this means (11+ / 0-)

    he will call their bluff, that's fine. if this means their brinksmanship will be used as an excuse for yet another lousy deal, then other words would apply.

    The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

    by Laurence Lewis on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 05:37:02 PM PST

    •  If I were a betting man (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ferg, divineorder, slinkerwink

      I'd be betting against a blinker like Obama.

      "Well, yeah, the Constitution is worth it if you succeed." - Nancy Pelosi // Question: "succeed" at what?

      by nailbender on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 05:47:23 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  i'm not going to bet (5+ / 0-)

        i'm not into the tea leaves, i'll just be clear about what is and isn't accaptable. if he refuses to budge, he can break the gop willingness to play this game. if he cuts another bad deal, then it is he that is playing the game.

        The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

        by Laurence Lewis on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 05:52:51 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Of course he's going to cut a bad deal. (6+ / 0-)

          Why else would Obama preemptively rule out the only two options that gave him any sort of leverage – the 14th amendment and the platinum coin?

          It sets things up so Obama will be "forced" to accept more unpopular concessions.

          •  Harsh, but sadly that's what crossed (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            slinkerwink

            my mind when I first saw the headline in Google News.  Hope we are wrong, Progressive Pen.

            Move Single Payer Forward? Join 18,000 Doctors of PNHP and 185,000 member National Nurses United

            by divineorder on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 06:21:29 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  um (0+ / 0-)

            because those are not genuine options?

            I half expect some on the left to start complaining that Obama isn't willing to use his magic wand.

            •  actually (5+ / 0-)

              the platinum coin is a very genuine option. it is legal and it would work.

              The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

              by Laurence Lewis on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 06:36:42 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Actually... (0+ / 0-)

                the Treasury said today that it wouldn't mint the coin and even if they did, the Federal Reserve wouldn't accept it.

                Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is important that you do it. - Mahatma Gandhi

                by NLinStPaul on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 07:02:41 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  the treasury (4+ / 0-)

                  does what the president tells it to do. there is plenty of legal cover. the fed can challenge it, but it would lose.

                  The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

                  by Laurence Lewis on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 07:20:11 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Of course (0+ / 0-)

                    the Treasury reports the the president. That wasn't the point.

                    If the Feds reject it - there's no deal. You have no way of knowing they'd lose if challenged. And when challenged, we have constitutional (therefore economic) chaos - which the whole idea of a magic coin is supposed to avoid.

                    Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is important that you do it. - Mahatma Gandhi

                    by NLinStPaul on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 07:25:06 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  the fed didn't say they'd reject it (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Progressive Pen, divineorder

                      a treasury spokesperson, not a fed spokesperson told ezra. big whoop. and i disagree about the chaos. while the issue is working through the courts, the economy is stable.

                      here's a clue as to how bullshit this whole concocted crisis is: during the showdown in november and december, the stock and bond markets were booming.

                      The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

                      by Laurence Lewis on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 07:27:33 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  So what you're suggesting (0+ / 0-)

                        is that you don't accept reporting that you don't agree with.

                        That's cool. Epistemic closure feels good.

                        Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is important that you do it. - Mahatma Gandhi

                        by NLinStPaul on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 07:34:40 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  what i'm saying (2+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          Progressive Pen, divineorder

                          is that i don't accept rumors. funny how people accept the ones they like and don't accept the ones they don't like. when an actual fed spokesperson says it, i'll take it seriously.

                          The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

                          by Laurence Lewis on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 07:40:25 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  That was exactly my point... (0+ / 0-)
                            funny how people accept the ones they like and don't accept the ones they don't like.

                            Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is important that you do it. - Mahatma Gandhi

                            by NLinStPaul on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 07:45:25 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  yes (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            divineorder

                            and up above i made clear that i'm also not reading any tea leaves on what the president will or won't do. i'm consistent. i care about issues, not personalities.

                            The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

                            by Laurence Lewis on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 07:47:28 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Except that (0+ / 0-)

                            we weren't talking about a prediction. We were talking about what the Treasury was reporting on the position of the Federal Reserve.

                            You don't believe them. As I said...that's cool. Most of us pick and chose what we want to hear.

                            Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is important that you do it. - Mahatma Gandhi

                            by NLinStPaul on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 07:50:21 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  as i said (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Progressive Pen, divineorder

                            i'll wait to hear from the fed.

                            and here's another clue: when a treasury spokesman says on the record that the treasury wouldn't accept the coin, he's either off script or he's relaying what he's been told from above. treasury does what the white house tells it to do. hmm...

                            The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

                            by Laurence Lewis on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 07:53:28 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Oh, so you're suggesting (0+ / 0-)

                            that a Treasury spokesperson never talks to a Fed spokesperson? Interesting.

                            Don't know why you need to belabor this to the point of conspiracy theories though. I get that you don't believe the reporting. As I've said 3 x's now - that's cool. We all do it.

                            Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is important that you do it. - Mahatma Gandhi

                            by NLinStPaul on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 08:03:12 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  i'm suggesting (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Progressive Pen, divineorder

                            that the fed can speak for itself.

                            and no- you do it, i don't. i've been clear that i won't believe what is reported third party. you clearly believe what you want to believe. but given that the treasury is responsible to the white house, i'm guessing you don't care, either way.

                            let me ask a very simple question: if obama printed the coin, would that be okay with you? given that constitutional scholars such as jack balkin and laurence tribe say it's legal, he certainly has cover. so, can you take a stand on the issue, apart from what obama does or doesn't do? if it comes to a clear choice, should he print the coin, and tell treasury to accept it, or would it be better to slash budgets?

                            The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

                            by Laurence Lewis on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 08:09:58 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You give away the lie (0+ / 0-)

                            when you suggest that you don't pick and chose what reporting to pay attention to. We all do it.

                            But then you demonstrate it by picking which constitutional scholars you're paying attention to...balkin and tribe. How about Michael Dorf?

                            Some commentators suggest that the Treasury could generate $2 trillion for the government by minting two platinum coins, using an obscure law that was enacted for the express purpose of creating memorabilia. But doing so would be economically equivalent to borrowing $2 trillion and thus, even if technically legal, would violate the substance of the debt ceiling law.
                            The questions you ask are clearly designed to suggest that I don't think for myself on issues and must be a mindless Obamabot. That's so typical. Its also a dead give-away that I'm dealing with someone who has run out of arguments and wants to go personal. I just want you to know that I see what you're doing.

                            To give you a lifeline that might help you avoid going there I'll say that no, I've never supported the magic coin argument. Putting aside the fact that its legality is in question, I oppose it because - to expand on what someone said elsewhere in this thread - we're not dealing with a legal or economic situation. This is a political crisis. And we'll lose the political battle if the public sees us doing something they don't understand and feel is a gimmick.

                            For quite a while now I've been suggesting that Obama likely has a worst case scenario plan - but he won't be telegraphing what it is because that would indicate a "blink" in his commitment to put this all on Republicans. It wasn't until today that the administration made that plan overt.

                            A long time ago I suggested to those who don't agree with Obama that they should study him rather than just complain. It struck me that understanding him would give us clues about how to work with/influence him. I've spent the last 5 years studying him and have gotten pretty good at predicting what his approach will be.  

                            Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is important that you do it. - Mahatma Gandhi

                            by NLinStPaul on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 08:45:46 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  wrong again (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            divineorder

                            throughout this process i've been saying i won't believe what isn't officially on the record. your standards may be different than mine, but don't assume "we all do it."

                            and even dorf says it is technically legal. which means it can be technically done.

                            and i have faith that the public will agree that the unprecedented brinksmanship of the republicans merits an unprecedented response. obama is popular, the republicans are not. business leaders are all but begging the republicans to stand down. and unlike some, i'm not given to studying people i don't personally have experience with. plenty of people study him, and plenty have reached conclusions far different than yours. funny, that. i stick to issues and results.

                            The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

                            by Laurence Lewis on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 08:53:29 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You're right (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Sparhawk

                            that the public is with us now. Pulling a stunt with a magic coin is a sure-fire way of losing them. The fact that it might be technically legal is part of the problem. That's why it would be a really stupid move.

                            Its also cool that you don't want to understand Obama. I'm a recovering therapist so its sort-of inevitable that I'd want to. I merely pointed it out because you were wanting to suggest that I don't think for myself and only follow Obama. I was responding to say that at least some of the time what I'm doing is predicting what he'll do. I've gotten really good at that and it makes me a better advocate.

                            Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is important that you do it. - Mahatma Gandhi

                            by NLinStPaul on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 09:08:23 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  how i tremble (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            divineorder

                            yeah, the already deeply unpopular republicans defy the pleading of the business community, not to mention common sense, and endanger our entire economy, and obama trumps them with a harmless gimmick that is legal and that makes it impossible for them to continue to threaten the entire economy, and the public would side with the republicans. sure.

                            david mizner also has been studying obama. based on obama's actual words. i find people's actual words to be instructive. you might want to check it out.

                            http://www.dailykos.com/...

                            The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

                            by Laurence Lewis on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 09:13:39 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Heh... (0+ / 0-)

                            Yeah, its clear that neither you nor Mizner have much of a clue about how to study a person. Aren't guys like you the ones that are always saying things like "don't buy what he says, I'll watch what he does." Oops, that one doesn't work this time though, does it?

                            To give you a lesson in how its done, here's me on the same issue.

                            And no, the public wouldn't side with the Republicans. They'd say "a pox on both your houses," which is exactly what the Republicans want.

                            A couple of years ago, a Republican committee staff director told me candidly (and proudly) what the method was to all this obstruction and disruption. Should Republicans succeed in obstructing the Senate from doing its job, it would further lower Congress's generic favorability rating among the American people. By sabotaging the reputation of an institution of government, the party that is programmatically against government would come out the relative winner.

                            A deeply cynical tactic, to be sure, but a psychologically insightful one that plays on the weaknesses both of the voting public and the news media. There are tens of millions of low-information voters who hardly know which party controls which branch of government, let alone which party is pursuing a particular legislative tactic. These voters' confusion over who did what allows them to form the conclusion that "they are all crooks," and that "government is no good," further leading them to think, "a plague on both your houses" and "the parties are like two kids in a school yard." This ill-informed public cynicism, in its turn, further intensifies the long-term decline in public trust in government that has been taking place since the early 1960s - a distrust that has been stoked by Republican rhetoric at every turn ("Government is the problem," declared Ronald Reagan in 1980).

                            Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is important that you do it. - Mahatma Gandhi

                            by NLinStPaul on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 09:28:20 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  what he does? (0+ / 0-)

                            like making deals that every step of the way play into the gop economic narrative? that kind of what he does?

                            and yeah, obama shuts down gop brinksmanship and the public equally blames him. how i tremble.

                            http://www.dailykos.com/...

                            The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

                            by Laurence Lewis on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 09:34:41 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I'm talking about (0+ / 0-)

                            the kind of thing he does like cutting $716 billion out of Medicare spending. And so when we match the words he's spoken about further reforms to Medicare, we come to the conclusion that he'll likely do it. We can also match how he's done it in the past with what he's saying about how he'll do it in the future.

                            I'm not real confident you'll be able to see that the reason Obama can best the Republicans when it comes to public opinion lately is that he's spent 4 years demonstrating to them that he's the reasonable one. One swipe at a gimmick like a magic coin has the potential to cost him a lot of that political capital.

                            In the end though, the magic coin is dead. Its time to move on to making sure the message is loud and clear to the public that the Republicans are playing with fire and exert as much pressure as possible to get them to pass a clean debt ceiling increase.

                            Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is important that you do it. - Mahatma Gandhi

                            by NLinStPaul on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 09:50:10 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  yeah (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            katiec

                            and given that he got deficit fever when we actually needed a second stimulus, and appointed a deficit commission headed by simpson and bowles, of all people, i guess we can study what his economic agenda really might be.

                            as i wrote during the election campaign, i thought he had changed, in the aftermath of the occupy movement. his rhetoric certainly did. and i will continue to exporiate and mock the republicans, but if obama ends up cutting another lousy deal with them, i won't blame them. none of this had to be.

                            The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

                            by Laurence Lewis on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 09:53:34 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Yeah, (0+ / 0-)

                            Folks like you always assume that the Republicans would have cried "uncle" long ago if Obama had only done things your way. What's funny to me is that you are also the ones who want to call him naive for underestimating their intransigence.

                            The truth is, the president has always been on to this game the republicans are playing. He even talked about it right here on dkos back in Sept. 2005.

                            A polarized electorate that is turned off of politics, and easily dismisses both parties because of the nasty, dishonest tone of the debate, works perfectly well for those who seek to chip away at the very idea of government because, in the end, a cynical electorate is a selfish electorate.
                            That isn't 11th dimensional chess. Its just understanding political dynamics.

                            Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is important that you do it. - Mahatma Gandhi

                            by NLinStPaul on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 10:09:48 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  yeah (0+ / 0-)

                            the false equivalency. in his own words. wolf blitzer or david broder couldn't have said it better. thanks for proving my point.

                            gosh, the republicans are scary.

                            The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

                            by Laurence Lewis on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 10:11:45 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  It must be late (0+ / 0-)

                            because now you're not making any sense.

                            Compare what Obama said in 2005 to how former Republican staffer Mike Lofgren described the Republican strategy in the comment I posted up above. Obama nailed it. And yes, the media feeds it as a false equivalence. THAT'S A BIG PART OF THE PROBLEM!

                            But Obama's reasonableness is finally beginning to break through and the Republican party is clearly in its death throes. The last thing we need to do right now is throw them a lifeline by doing something crazy simply because they are being crazy.

                            Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is important that you do it. - Mahatma Gandhi

                            by NLinStPaul on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 10:20:43 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  yeah (0+ / 0-)

                            the media feed it and obama agrees with it. nice. and his reasonableness sure is getting great results. his first negotiation since winning a mandate reelection, with the polls solidly behind him, both personally and on the issue, and he trades one of his main campaign themes for but a 60 day delay on playing the game again. that'll show 'em!

                            The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

                            by Laurence Lewis on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 10:28:08 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  My gawd... (0+ / 0-)

                            Don't you EVER have an original thought? You're simply spouting dkos talking points now.

                            His reasonableness is the major reason why his approval ratings are in the mid-50's and Congress's are on par with STD's while the Republicans struggle to find any relevance.

                            Where would we be if he'd done what folks like you have been suggesting? Would the Republicans have cried "uncle" by now? Not a chance. But we'd be stuck in gridlock with everyone saying "a pox on both their houses."

                            His main campaign theme was a promise that middle class people would not see their income taxes raised. He delivered. To get that he raised the upper limit to be on par with where Clinton rates would be when you factor in inflation. If you think thats a BFD - you're pretty clueless. And in return - he got a bit more than a 60 month delay in the sequestration - for which he'll be demanding additional revenue from the wealthy in exchange for replacing the cuts. He got UI extended as well as a 5 year extension on tax cuts for the middle class that actually double as stimulus.

                            Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is important that you do it. - Mahatma Gandhi

                            by NLinStPaul on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 10:42:36 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  talking points? (0+ / 0-)

                            lol- you need to look in a mirror more often.

                            his reasonableness is why, despite being up against the most batshit crazy republicans ever, his approval rating isn't higher, and was barely above water throughout the election season. thank god for the republican "talent" pool!

                            he said he would let all tax cuts expire above 250k. the gop cried class warfare. he won. and yeah, he got another year of ui in exchange for an indefinite tax cut for 250k-400k. nice trade. and next year, what will he give up for one more year? and continuing the tax cuts isn't stimulus, it's a small blow against austerity. but now we get to play the whole game again in a month and a half, and he doesn't have the tax cuts as leverage. we'll see how that goes. and the gop can threaten the debt ceiling again, and obama has taken one of his weapons off the table with that, too. we'll see how that goes. some good things are off the table, but brinksmanship and austerity aren't.

                            The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

                            by Laurence Lewis on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 10:56:51 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I'll simply note that (0+ / 0-)

                            you never answered my question (that I asked twice now) about where you think we'd be if Obama had done what you would suggest. Would the Republicans have cried "uncle" by now because Obama was being so tough?

                            I see you alluded to an answer by suggesting that if he had been more unreasonable, you think his approval ratings would be higher. Now that's pretty funny. Because all that's left in the Republican ranks are the old white male racists. And you think he would have won them over by being unreasonable. Let me give you a clue...he's NEVER going to win them over - no matter what he does. He's scooped up all the real estate between himself and the nutjobs - while they continue on their path to oblivion.

                            But of course you assume that's because of the Republican "talent" pool he's faced. In other words...he's just been lucky in his opposition. It has nothing to do with the fact that he saw the obstruction coming and gave the Republicans the chance to either work with him or paint themselves into a more and more extremist corner in their opposition.

                            I'd be the last one to say that Obama is perfect. As a matter of fact, I think that if he had it to do over again, he probably wouldn't have gone for the "grand bargain" over the last debt ceiling challenge. This particular one needs to be nipped in the bud.

                            But what I find fascinating is that just when he learned from that and is taking the opposite position this time, folks like you are still at him because he isn't going to buy your magic coin idea to let the Republicans off the hook. What that tells me is that you're stuck in your negative narrative. Other than point it out, there's not much anyone can do about that.

                            Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is important that you do it. - Mahatma Gandhi

                            by NLinStPaul on Sun Jan 13, 2013 at 06:53:25 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Lincoln - greenbacks. FDR - fiat (0+ / 0-)

                            FDR took us off the gold standard for national settlement.

                            He could not have afforded all he did if we had remained on gold.

                            He pulled paper out of thin air.

                            He was bold.

                            If Obama would pull a coin out of thin air, then the whole debate surrounding what we can or can't afford would go away.                                                      

            •  The platinum coin is a genuine option. The concept (3+ / 0-)

              may seem silly, but it is in fact legal.

              When Republicans refused to raise the debt limit in 2011, Obama offered to cut Social Security and Medicare.

              I'd much prefer the platinum coin.

        •  bingo. nt (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Laurence Lewis, divineorder

          "Well, yeah, the Constitution is worth it if you succeed." - Nancy Pelosi // Question: "succeed" at what?

          by nailbender on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 06:27:37 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  I am not a betting man either, but others (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Laurence Lewis, slinkerwink

        here would probably take that bet for sure, nailbender.... including maybe even kos.

        Move Single Payer Forward? Join 18,000 Doctors of PNHP and 185,000 member National Nurses United

        by divineorder on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 06:09:12 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Kos was betting on the platinum coin because (0+ / 0-)

          the WH has already ruled out the rational mechanism, Section 4 of the 14th.  See his comment about 3/4 the way down this thread.

          Now they've ruled out the coin trick which, imo, is a politically prudent move.   But blinking at the brink (as he has done so many times before) is equally politically stupid (unless that's just part of his Kabuki routine).

          "Well, yeah, the Constitution is worth it if you succeed." - Nancy Pelosi // Question: "succeed" at what?

          by nailbender on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 06:52:26 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  then you'd lose (0+ / 0-)

        just like the Republicans have been.

    •  who's willing to endure 7 days of default? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      slinkerwink

      I think the Republican are more willing. (The 7 days would shut down government, not default on bonds.)

      Take the fiscal cliff. Reid was willing to go over the cliff. Obama was not. And the fiscal cliff was much less damaging than the debt limit default would be.

      Obama has no plan for what happens at the debt limit.

    •  Seems early days to be rejecting this to me, (3+ / 0-)

      but what do I know?  More theatre, most probably....

      I so  want to hope he will get off the 'cut entitlements for sake of deficit' goal which he signaled was still up even after the recent tax deal.

      Establishes a foundation for additional balanced, pro-growth deficit reduction through tax and entitlement reform: The agreement leaves substantial scope for reducing tax expenditures for high-income households, reforming corporate taxes to broaden the base and cut the rate to make America more competitive, and to take further steps to reform entitlements.

      Move Single Payer Forward? Join 18,000 Doctors of PNHP and 185,000 member National Nurses United

      by divineorder on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 06:07:59 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Using 14th Would Up Approval More Than Osama Kill (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    divineorder, DuzT

    Just do it

  •  Assures there will be debt ceiling negotiations... (7+ / 0-)

    In my opinion, anyway. Contrary to the President's claims and the confidence shown around here, the fact that he has publicly taken the idea off the table gives more leverage to the GOP. Now we have to wonder what will be given up in exchange for the hostage.

    I don't see the administration doing this unless they really want to make cuts to entitlements and need GOP hostage-taking as political cover.

    •  If Obama's goal (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      salamanderempress, elmo, sharman, winsock

      was to stop the Republicans from "pulling the trigger" on the debt ceiling, what approach would be more effective:

      1. Letting them know he'd mint the coin to limit the damages?
      2. Letting them know that all hell breaks loose on the economy if they do it?

      This is a game of chicken. Floating the idea of a magic coin is blinking.

      Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is important that you do it. - Mahatma Gandhi

      by NLinStPaul on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 06:00:07 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Sorry, no (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      salamanderempress

      You've got that backwards. If Obama really could avoid the consequences of Republicans failing to raise the debt ceiling, that lets them off the hook.

      There are no such options, in reality. Republicans are on the hook. If they refuse to raise the debt ceiling, they are the ones who will be causing the U.S. to default, not the President.

      They'll blink, just like they blinked on the fiscal cliff.

      •  I hope you're right... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        divineorder, blueoasis

        I just don't see the GOP raising the debt ceiling without trying to extract something for it. It may be a bluff, but they'll carry it out to the last minute, and I'm not sure the President calls it.

        The Republicans don't generally seem to mind being on the hook for these kinds of things anyway, as they'll just attempt to blame it on the Dems, and the media will help them by covering the issue as an example of typical partisan bickering with the Democrats sharing responsibility. Remember, the Republicans ran on "Obama cutting medicare" in 2010 despite the fact they voted for budgets that would cut the hell out of it, or turn it into a voucher program.

        With Corporate America demanding the ceiling get raised, things might be different, but if I were a betting man (I am a betting man), I'd say 5 to 1 says there are negotiations with the Republicans attempting and maybe even being successful in getting some form of ransom.

  •  What's the surprise? (4+ / 0-)

    This has been obvious for days.

    Only Congress can raise the debt ceiling.

    Watch for major concessions (ie steep cuts)  on SS,  Medicare and Medicaid.

    A cynic might say this was Obama's plan all along.

    I know you believe you understood what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. -- S.I. Hayakawa

    by tapu dali on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 05:46:02 PM PST

  •  Obama doesn't want a fix that doesn't include (5+ / 0-)

    his Grand Bargain and his oh so statesmanly cutting of SS & Medicare.

    This preventible train wreck is Obama's leverage not with the GOP but with us.  It is the excuse Obama needs to stuff horrible policy down our throats.

    •  Obama doesn't want a grand bargain to cut (0+ / 0-)

      He wants a grand bargain for economic stimulus.

    •  It is interesting to note, though (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      salamanderempress, divineorder

      that for all the times Obama has offered to cut entitlement programs, it's yet to happen. Either he's a much more skillful poker player than many of us admit, or else we're very, very, very lucky, having been "saved" by the infantile purism of the far right because they just couldn't say yes.

      "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

      by kovie on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 06:15:29 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  It is the latter--ironically, and maybe for the (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        lostinamerica, blueoasis

        wrong reasons (from Matt Bai's reporting on the "near-Grand Bargain" of July 2011), it is clear that the Tea Party saved our social safety net.

        John Boehner is a corporatist Republican, however, and I fear that the stage is now set for the first major rounds of cuts to Social Security.

        Remember, the Catfood Commission and the Gang of Six (now either 8 or 10, lost track!) proposals call for periodic (the "Gang" for a decennial review) reviews and automatic "adjustments," once they implement the proposed cuts to Social Security.

        Here's the link to The Moment Of Truth (PDF), from the Bowles-Simpson Fiscal Commission.

        Mollie

        “If a dog won’t come to you after having looked you in the face, you should go home and examine your conscience.” -- Woodrow Wilson

        by musiccitymollie on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 06:47:37 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'm of two minds on this (0+ / 0-)

          That he really does want, or is at least willing, to cut these programs, so as to be viewed by history as the "Grand Bargainer", or has been punking Repubs all along, knowing just how far to appear to be accommodating without being so accommodating as to actually be, well, too accommodating.

          "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

          by kovie on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 09:14:00 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  The worst President at cutting SS evah. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        NLinStPaul

        If I am to believe the hypotheses of some here, it's like it's his lifelong ambition to cut SS, and he keeps failing at this one goal, despite accomplishing, well, pretty much everything else.

    •  Some of the folks I respect here clearly (0+ / 0-)

      believe that is true.  

      OTOH, miracles happen, and I want to be an optimist so will refrain from going there meshelf.

      Move Single Payer Forward? Join 18,000 Doctors of PNHP and 185,000 member National Nurses United

      by divineorder on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 06:24:46 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Damn, and I was all set to buy one from (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    elmo, sharman, LordMike

    the Franklin Mint on late night TV. That or an Obama Chia Pet.

    Photobucket

    "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

    by kovie on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 06:17:57 PM PST

  •  The president needs to have a plan ... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    divineorder, Dogs are fuzzy

    ... for what to do if the Republicans don't blink (I am assuming, or rather, hoping, that he doesn't plan to blink himself).

    We need to remind people that the president does not have legal authority to decide which bills to honor and which bills to put off.  The Budget and Impoundment Control Act of 1974 severely limits the president's ability to fail to spend any money if Congress has mandated that the money be spent.  At most he can hold it up for 45 days, send Congress a request to hold up the money, and if Congress doesn't pass it as a law, the money automatically gets spent.  So in the end, either he needs a way around it (14th Amendment or platinum coin), or he needs to decide which law to break.  Asserting what is in effect a line item veto would be just as illegal as borrowing money without permission by Congress.

  •  yeah it'll be this ... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    divineorder, blueoasis
    ...simply so they can force disastrous cuts to Medicare and other programs the middle class depend on while protecting the wealthy...
    wtf
  •  He alwayss (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    divineorder, blueoasis, davidinmaine

    gives away all his leverage before the negotiations begin.

    Why?

    Republican tax policies have led to financial conditions which have caused Republicans to demand cuts to programs they have always opposed.

    by AppleP on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 06:44:59 PM PST

  •  Gosh, the stunt-driven dreams of so many (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    divineorder, FG

    will be crushed by this.

    "Every now & then your brain gifts you with the thought, 'oh, that's right, I don't actually give a **** about this.' Treasure it" -- jbou

    by kenlac on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 06:52:34 PM PST

  •  Some of the arguments here (0+ / 0-)

    remind me of watching a diverse group of leaders discuss preparations for a nuclear holocaust after the 1980's movie "The Day After."

    One of the panelists was Elie Weisel. He was quiet throughout most of the discussion and when he finally spoke up he talked about his dismay that the conversation was about how to best survive a nuclear holocaust rather than how to prevent one from happening in the first place.

    The magic coin is preparation for dealing with an economic holocaust. President Obama is doing his best to prevent it from happening in the first place.

    Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is important that you do it. - Mahatma Gandhi

    by NLinStPaul on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 07:14:54 PM PST

    •  How? (0+ / 0-)

      By throwing away all the tools that could be used to prevent it from happening?

      •  The tools I suspect you are referring to - (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        salamanderempress

        like the magic coin - are not tools for preventing it - they're tools for surviving it.

        Obama is saying its on the Republicans to pass a debt ceiling increase...full stop.

        "This now puts all the pressure back where we believe it belongs: on the Republicans," a senior administration official told the Huffington Post. "There are no magic coins. There is no way to get out of this. We feel fine about the politics of it. We think we are in a stronger position if Republicans realize there is no out."

        Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is important that you do it. - Mahatma Gandhi

        by NLinStPaul on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 07:38:02 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Actually no. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      divineorder, davidinmaine

      If the trillion dollar coin is minted, then we avert a default.  Hence, no economic holocaust.  

      The only other ways to prevent the default are to ignore the debt ceiling altogether (the so-called "constitutional option") or to pray that Obama stands absolutely firm and the Republicans blink.  Since he made a deal the last time they threatened not to raise the debt ceiling, I'm not entirely confident he won't do the same again.

      Given that state of affairs, a trillion dollar coin looks pretty good.  

      "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

      by FogCityJohn on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 07:36:36 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  good, it was a bad precedent (0+ / 0-)

    make them be adults.

  •  WH just gave away their leverage against the left (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LordMike

    WH, having ruled out coin & 14th, now cannot compromise on any, arbitrarily small point, without rightly being accused of selling out. They freaking GAVE AWAY their best leverage against the right, and now cannot possibly explain any concessions to the left.

    “Americans are fighters. We're tough, resourceful and creative, and if we have the chance to fight on a level playing field, where everyone pays a fair share and everyone has a real shot, then no one - no one - can stop us. ”-- Elizabeth Warren

    by Positronicus on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 07:36:34 PM PST

  •  I'm not surprised at all (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    NLinStPaul, divineorder

    Why would Obama give the Republicans advance notice that they don't really have to fix their self-made debt ceiling mess? It's basic game theory.

    I would not be surprised if it gets pulled out at the very last second, either.

  •  There are.... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    NLinStPaul, nickrud

    Many things I disagree with Obama on, and quite frankly I came within a hogs breath for voting for Jill Stein.  But this is the right move.  Seriously, you want Obama to do this gimmick that is already being made fun of by everyone on the right and in the middle all to save the Republicans the trouble of having to wear a default?   There is zero upside of doing the coin, look at the numbers, people know who to blame if we default.  And to be honest, its about time people felt the sting.   I am tired of our side being the ones to swoop in and save the day just to be called stupid liberals.  

    Of course, as even John Boehner pointed out, the debt ceiling isn't the main point of leverage for the Republicans, it's the budget.  The Republicans can shut down the government for a week or two and appear like the have done something without pissing off Wall Street too much.  Also, let's use logic, the debt ceiling deadline expired two weeks ago, if Obama wanted to bargain away SS and Medicare he would have done so already.  He would also be meeting daily with the Repubs, and he isn't.  

  •  Great diary, divineorder... (0+ / 0-)

    Let's keep the pressure up & our eyes open.

  •  They're telling us they're coming for SS (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    katiec, divineorder

    and to get ready for cuts. They want it this way. Their tough talk BS was a fail on taxes and its a fail now. We know the score. They ignore solutions like TDC and PCS and will now make all of us pay for the mess they created in 2010.

    I don't negotiate grand bargains with deficit terrorists!

    by priceman on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 09:04:06 PM PST

  •  Good. No negotiating with (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    divineorder

    Hostage takers.

  •  The little chart is great: Instead Of Attacking (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    divineorder

    Children, Seniors and Veterans We Can Pass The Following Legislation (read above).

  •  It's minted. n/t (0+ / 0-)

    Atlas shrugged. Jesus wept.

    by trevzb on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 08:13:01 PM PST

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