Skip to main content

President Obama today on the debt limit:
Republicans in Congress have two choices here. They can act responsibly, and pay America’s bills, or they can act irresponsibly and put America through another economic crisis. But they will not collect a ransom in exchange for not crashing the American economy. The financial wellbeing of the American people is not leverage to be used. The full faith and credit of the United States of America is not a bargaining chip. And they better choose quickly, because time is running short.
And by the time the president finished his press conference, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell and House Speaker John Boehner had already responded.

First, Mr. Turtle:

The President and his allies need to get serious about spending, and the debt-limit debate is the perfect time for it.
And second, the Weeper of the House:
The American people do not support raising the debt ceiling without reducing government spending at the same time. The consequences of failing to increase the debt ceiling are real, but so too are the consequences of allowing our spending problem to go unresolved. Without meaningful action, the debt will continue to act as an anchor on our economy, costing American jobs and endangering our children's future. The House will do its job and pass responsible legislation that controls spending, meets our nation's obligations and keeps the government running, and we will insist that the Democratic majority in Washington do the same.
As you can see, McConnell's statement is boilerplate fluff, devoid of specifics. Sure, he says now is "the perfect time" for a debate on spending, but in his world is there ever a bad time for such a debate? (Actually, there is: when a Republican is president. But I digress.)

Boehner, on the other hand, makes a specific pledge: that House Republicans will raise the debt limit, albeit in concert with other spending cuts. Presumably he means these items will be passed as part of one bill—not as separate measures. Once the House passes its bill, Boehner seems to think his job is done—it'll be up to Democrats whether or not to accept his ransom note.

There's a tiny flaw with Boehner's gambit, however. Well, not just a tiny flaw. It's a big, ugly one: As Greg Sargent points out, once the Senate receives the House bill, they will move to amend it with a clean debt limit increase. If Republicans filibuster, then they will once again be the party responsible for default. And if they don't filibuster, then House Republicans will be back where they started, needing to raise the debt limit—or force default and everything that comes with it.

The only hope Republicans have of prevailing is if President Obama caves on his refusal to negotiate with hostage-takers. Otherwise, the only question is whether or not they will send the country into default. And if they aren't willing to put the country into default, they should end the charade now. The longer they take, the worse the politics will be for them—and, more importantly, the worse it will be for the country.

Originally posted to The Jed Report on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 10:54 AM PST.

Also republished by Daily Kos.

EMAIL TO A FRIEND X
Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags

?

More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  GOP to Obama: (10+ / 0-)

    "We need to break for tea.  Don't expect us back anytime soon."

    The more you learn the less you know.

    by quiet in NC on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 10:59:31 AM PST

    •  Yes, it's that simple. (13+ / 0-)

      And this time the president seems to get it too.

      "We the People of the United States...." -U.S. Constitution

      by elwior on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 11:16:35 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  i'm not going to speculate (20+ / 0-)

        on whether or not he gets it. i'm just going to stick with what he must do.

        The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

        by Laurence Lewis on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 11:19:18 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I don't know that I've seen the president (12+ / 0-)

          so resolute as he is on this point. There is no equivocation in his position on this one, and with good reason.
             This one is a no-brainer. Congress is simply obliged to authorize the government to pay its bills. The president stands on rock-solid ground on this one. The Republicans on the other hand are on some pretty thin ice here, and the weather is only going to get warmer.

             No, Obama's got their number on the debt-ceiling nonsense. That he won't give on this one seems apparent.
              What I do worry about is what he might give away on the debt-reduction side. He can play it very tough because the R's are bumbling and fumbling all over the place, looking like inept blowhards. And what they want is not popular.
              But the president tends to soften up when he doesn't have to, hoping to ultimately get co-operation from people who do not co-operate.

          "We the People of the United States...." -U.S. Constitution

          by elwior on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 12:02:44 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  The GOP's play with the "our kids future" card (5+ / 0-)

            is disingenuous.  The have already stacked the cards against them with cuts to food stamps and welfare, school lunches, cuts in education both at the local and national level, the push for non-standardized education in voucher schools, fighting every step of keeping the air and water clean, sending fathers and mothers to war to die, unnecessarily I might add, then cutting or delaying benefits for survivors.  The don't want to clean up after disasters, the won't stimulate the economy so their parents have jobs, they don't want them to have health care or a college education and they don't want to put any effort into them once they leave the uterus, unless they are in religious homes.

            Now I ask what kind of future has the GOP set up for them and what are they saving them from?  

            Oh and now they want them to daily be exposed to guns in their schools.

            Just don't buy that the GOP give a sh$$ about our children or their futures, unless it is the children and grandchildren of the GOP and their wealthy supporters.

          •   He may find ignoring their crap = bipartisanship (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            elwior

            Neocons and their Frankenstein teabagger spawn only compromise when backed into a corner with no escape. At that point you might squeeze some reason out of them. Then with luck he'll mostly take strong positions when negotiating and show them who's the Daddy.

        •  Yep. I don't know if (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          divineorder

          the President "caves" in negotiations,
          or if
          he's a "bad negotiator",
          or if
          he arranges things to get exactly what he wants and make it look like he was "forced to do it".  (Still don't know why he took the 14th amend and platinum coin off the table.)

          Doesn't matter.
          I watch what he does.

          •  He took them of the table (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            kat68, aitchdee

            because it would put the onus on him at the end and the pressures would not be there on the GOP before the ceiling is reached because folks assume there is a presidential escape valve. There is not.

          •  You don't leave money on the table. But seriously, (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            aitchdee

            ... the Magic Coin is frivolous chicanery. A gimmick. We can't prevent the House from looking petty, small and delusional, but the President shouldn't be.

            The 14th Amendment, however, is different and although its use would be controversial, it is a constitutional provision and that clearly trumps an act of stupidity Congress.

            I think Obama took the direct approach because (1) it is correct and (2) it puts the politics on this issue where it belongs.

            2014 IS COMING. Build up the Senate. Win back the House : 17 seats. Plus!

            by TRPChicago on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 12:38:52 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Oh horsesh*t. The Platinum Coin is quite valid. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              midwesterner

              Most ALL  of our currency is magic, a fiat currency. You do know that, don't you?

              But did you know about the
              Sacagawea dollar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacagawea_dollarThe Sacagawea dollar (also known as the "golden dollar") is a United States dollar coin that has been minted every year since 2000, although not released for ...

              We were researching traveling to Ecuador recently and discovered that they are in circulation as valid currency there.  Panama uses our money, calls it the Balboa.

              Our government does all kinds of magic shift with our money. But I digress.

              On this part you may be correct:

              I think Obama took the direct approach because (1) it is correct and (2) it puts the politics on this issue where it belongs.
              Or you may be wrong.   He took them off so that he will be able to negotiate at the last minute for the cuts he has been saying he wants to make.
              Establishes a foundation for additional balanced, pro-growth deficit reduction through tax and entitlement reform:The agreement leaves substantial scope for reducing tax expenditures for high-income households, reforming corporate taxes to broaden the base and cut the rate to make America more competitive,and to take further steps to reform entitlements.
              We can argue what that means, but right now, its all opinion......

              Move Single Payer Forward? Join 18,000 Doctors of PNHP and 185,000 member National Nurses United

              by divineorder on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 01:15:43 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  With respect, hogwash. (0+ / 0-)

                You put the Magic Coin in the same category as the currency of the US? That is delusional.

                I don't know where you got that second block quoted section ... but it wasn't from me. Attribute, please, before someone else thinks you are quoting me on that stuff.

                2014 IS COMING. Build up the Senate. Win back the House : 17 seats. Plus!

                by TRPChicago on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 03:49:38 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  From the WH website (0+ / 0-)

                  here
                  http://www.whitehouse.gov/...

                  Last paragraph in the list of items.
                  Glad you distance yourself from it.

                  •  Thanks! And Yup, no one's ever claimed I'm a ... (0+ / 0-)

                    ... shill for this administration.

                    That said, I am very much in favor of "additional balanced, pro-growth deficit reduction through tax and entitlement reform ..."

                    And, who among us is against reducing tax expenditures for high-income households? Reforming corporate taxes?

                    As for "cut the rate to make America more competitive", I want to know more. If there's a stronger minimum corporate AMT or other threshold below which corporations who make a profit must pay taxes on it, I could see cutting the top rate.

                    As for "further steps to reform entitlements," I'd certainly like to know what "entitlements" they're talking about and - with precision - what "steps" they'd take to "reform" them. If that means increasing the contribution rate or the cap on incomes to fund the bundle of SS, Medicare and Medicaid, or some kind of means testing, I'd sure consider it.

                    Wouldn't you?

                    2014 IS COMING. Build up the Senate. Win back the House : 17 seats. Plus!

                    by TRPChicago on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 07:53:26 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Well, lets see... (0+ / 0-)

                      "pro-growth deficit reduction".  We need more stimulus, not austerity.  Deficit reduction, reduced govt spending,  is part of austerity not stimulus.

                      "reducing tax expenditures for high-income households"
                      i.e. cutting taxes for high-income households.

                      "reforming corporate taxes" and "cut the rate"
                      i.e. cut corporate taxes.

                      "reform entitlements" i.e. cut SS/MM benefits.  

                      It reads like  stimulus-for-high-wealth-people
                       and
                      austerity-for-low-wealth-people.

                      So I'm guessing your post is a snark.

                      •  No snark intended. To take your points ... (0+ / 0-)

                        1. We agree that we need stimulus such as infrastructure spending that boosts economic growth. Like you, I'd like it without any more austerity measures, but that's very likely. You don't agree that the cost of getting stimulus spending through an obdurate GOP-controlled house may be reduced spending in other areas. If we have to give up spending on things like the military budget and subsidies that are unwarranted (like for oil exploration), I'm willing. I'm wary as hell, but I'm willing. Not all government spending is good. Agree?

                        2. You're wrong on your decoding of the phrase "tax expenditures". That is the term used for deductions, credits, preferences and flat-out gimmicks that grant certain activities a break through the tax-code, as opposed to outright Congressional spending like subsidy payments. So "reducing tax expenditures for high-income households" means decreasing the availability of those gimmicks (like "carried interest" and the rates on dividends and capital gains), thereby raising the effective rate paid by those who take advantage of those "tax expenditures." That's not an opinion; it's a fact. Ask someone else if you doubt.

                        3. If Congress really does "reform" corporate taxes, I'd be willing to reduce the overall rate ... so long as there are real reductions and they don't return in other guises. (I am very skeptical of tax reform generally. I don't think it will happen because of all the special interests that will protect each provision.) But the White House statement addresses the key problem - the accumulation of those gimmicks means GE et al doesn't pay much, if anything, in taxes and the rate has nothing to do with that. If reducing the rate is the carrot that will drive reform, I'd go with the strategy but wait to implement rate cuts until I see the reform.

                        4. "Reform entitlements" bothers me, too, just as I wrote before. I'm dead set against SS cuts (unnecessary for many, many years) and very wary of M&M cuts, but I am willing to explore other ways to address the growing funding crisis for Medicaid. Many Progressives I read accept that and are proposing workable political alternatives to the things we don't like. Just saying No won't cut it.

                        You see these things as pure. Being unwilling to consider compromise makes us no more realistic than the Tea Party zealots. Some Progressives seem to believe that we can get all 'er nothing. Much as we'd like to be pure, laws don't get through sharply divided Congresses with that attitude.

                        2014 IS COMING. Build up the Senate. Win back the House : 17 seats. Plus!

                        by TRPChicago on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 05:01:39 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

            •  Yeah, give the GOP rope to hang themselves (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              aitchdee, TRPChicago

              This is a rare instance when the best thing Obama and our party can do is sit back, break out the popcorn, and watch the show.

              Default is a catastrophe that awaits the GOP if they try this stupid stunt. Their economic and political ignorance would be exposed for all the world to see.

      •  There's a difference between (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bewareofme, elwior, FistJab, aitchdee, Matt Z

        not getting your best deal in a negotiation and not having a negotiation at all.
        Pretty much all reporting indicates that Obama thinks negotiating about the debt ceiling in 2011 was one of his gravest mistakes, so I'm quite confident in him here.

        •  It wasn't, and I don't think he does. (0+ / 0-)

          He can afford to be more resolute now. There was a satisfactory election outcome and sentiment behind it, and it was time to get more nuanced than he could have bargained the last time.

          He's already pared down spending. This time, it'll take a more willing Congress facing a less willing President. Tough for Congress.

          2014 IS COMING. Build up the Senate. Win back the House : 17 seats. Plus!

          by TRPChicago on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 12:44:23 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  I believe you are right (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          aitchdee

          I think Obama said it was one of his major regrets - setting a bad precedent by negotiating on what should not be a negotiation. Obama is channelling the Clinton Administration now:

          "On November 9, 1995, a senior administration official told the Washington Post, “Our position is it does not matter what they put on this legislation, we are not going to accept anything but clean bills because we will not be blackmailed over default. Get it? No extortion. No blackmail. What you hear are their screams of complaint as they realize we are not, not, not budging on this.”

          http://www.tnr.com/...

          Obama holds the cards now.  I think (and hope) he stands firm now.

          “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” Charles Darwin

          by ivorybill on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 01:38:53 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Unless Republicans refuse as well, (0+ / 0-)

      markets get trashed and the economy tanks.

      Then we all lose.

      The Class, Terror and Climate Wars are indivisible and the short-term outcome will affect the planet for centuries. -WiA "When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill..." - PhilJD

      by Words In Action on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 12:05:37 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  it doesn't happen that quickly (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        thomask, stagemom, jrooth, Laconic Lib

        but the pressure builds, and we see who blinks first. it's time to find out.

        The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

        by Laurence Lewis on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 12:08:34 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  The market response happened quickly (0+ / 0-)

          last time. Ditto for the de-valued bond rating...

          The Class, Terror and Climate Wars are indivisible and the short-term outcome will affect the planet for centuries. -WiA "When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill..." - PhilJD

          by Words In Action on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 12:16:30 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  the market devaluation (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            divineorder

            was specifically tied to the political games, the brinksmanship. the possible default is separate. and the markets were so worried in december that they were soaring. it's a game, a ruse, an excuse.

            The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

            by Laurence Lewis on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 12:29:48 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Exactly. There are other problems here, like the (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Laurence Lewis, Words In Action

              26 million unemployed-underemployed-flat gave up and their families.

              A massive direct hire jobs programs would make the markets shoot up like a rocket. That's what  we need.

              Good to see the President both talk jobs and put the Republicans on notice. The proof, though, is in the pudding as they say...

              Dem Economist Galbraith nailed it on the debt crisis fail:

              That the looming debt and deficit crisis is fake is something that, by now, even the most dim member of Congress must know.  The combination of hysterical rhetoric, small armies of lobbyists and pundits, and the proliferation of billionaire-backed front groups with names like the “Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget” is not a novelty in Washington. It happens whenever Big Money wants something badly enough.

              Big Money has been gunning for Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid for decades – since the beginning of Social Security in 1935. The motives are partly financial: As one scholar once put it to me, the payroll tax is the “Mississippi of cash flows.” Anything that diverts part of it into private funds and insurance premiums is a meal ticket for the elite of the predator state.

              And the campaign is also partly political. The fact is, Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid are the main way ordinary Americans connect to their federal government, except in wars and disasters.  They have made a vast change in family life, unburdening the young of their parents and ensuring that every working person contributes whether they have parents, dependents, survivors or disabled of their own to look after. These programs do this work seamlessly, for next to nothing; their managers earn civil service salaries and the checks arrive on time. For the private competition, this is intolerable; the model is a threat to free markets and must be destroyed.

              Move Single Payer Forward? Join 18,000 Doctors of PNHP and 185,000 member National Nurses United

              by divineorder on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 01:02:43 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  and worrying about the markets... (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                divineorder

                the markets have been doing very well. employment hasn't. industry has been sitting on hundreds of billions of dollars, so why aren't there any jobs?

                The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

                by Laurence Lewis on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 01:07:15 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  1% determined to turn us back into serfs? (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Laurence Lewis, Words In Action

                  or is it the Rise of Robots?  /snark

                  The Rise of Robots – and Decline of Jobs – Is Here
                  SNIP
                  TFT: How about the risks involved with automation? Powerful computers and high-frequency trading on Wall St. is one reason among many that could prompt a market crisis. Will there be more risks like that in the future?

                  MF: It’s possible -- you’ll see more trading get automated and happening at these incomprehensible rates and no one knows what’s going on; it’s a bunch of computers autonomously doing things. Last year, the market had that flash crash and it took months to really analyze it and I don’t know if they can agree on what happened, but it will create a danger in markets.

                  TFT: So what do we do about it?

                  MF:If we do nothing, that would result in social instability; you’ll have people living in tent cities, losing their homes, even worse than now. That’s the path to disaster.What I suggested in the book is [to] get the government involved in providing an income with what I consider to be a market-based approach because you’re doing taxation and redistribution, you’re giving people some kind of an income but they’re still participating in the market as consumers. There isn’t a solution where everything will be OK – but we have to do something. I want lots of people, including economists, to be thinking more about this issue because right now they’re very dismissive of it and they don’t see it as a problem and I think it deserves more attention. If in fact so many of the ideas that I’m suggesting turn out to be correct and we run into a problem, at least people will have thought about it.

                  Interesting...

                  Move Single Payer Forward? Join 18,000 Doctors of PNHP and 185,000 member National Nurses United

                  by divineorder on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 01:25:20 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

  •  If Boehner believes what he says... (24+ / 0-)

    then why take a hostage to get what you want? Why not make your case to the public and get popular support and win elections? The GOP House lost 7-8 seats and lost the House popular vote by hundreds of thousands.  

    It will be interesting to see what spending cut only bill comes out of the House.  Because Boehner will insist on 218 votes from his caucus - so it will have draconian cuts to all social programs, while not touching the MIC or Big Oil in any way.  

    Hell, Reid should bring that bill as is to the Senate floor for a vote and make the GOP own it there as well, before the Dems vote it down anyways.  

    If the House GOP was smart they'd put forth reasonable cuts and then dare the Senate Dems to block it - but they can't do that because they wouldn't get enough votes from his House Caucus to get 218 votes.  

    "The world is made for people who aren't cursed with self awareness" -Annie Savoy (Bull Durham)

    by Jacoby Jonze on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 11:03:24 AM PST

    •  House GOP isn't smart nt (13+ / 0-)

      I'm a mushroom. Kept in the dark and fed....you know

      by The Voice from the Cave on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 11:10:51 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  The media is not doing its job (3+ / 0-)

      The media should call out Republicans on this, but they are just clueless.  What is stopping the republican's from producing a bill implementing spending cuts right now?  I really hope Obama holds firm, and Republicans do go ahead and pass a spending cuts bill (even if it is tied with a debt ceiling extension) because then we will have them on record attempting to cut the basic social services that the public relies on.  (This will be perfect leverage during the next election.)  The Senate can then amend the bill to strip it of the cuts, and send it back to the house, which the house will be forced to pass unless it wants to be responsile for forcing the ecconomy back into recession.

      "Art is a lie that makes you realize the truth." - Picasso

      by she the technocrat on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 11:43:36 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Is there any poll that suggests (0+ / 0-)

      Americans don't want the debt ceiling raised unless there are cuts to Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid?

      I doubt there is, but if there is, it has to be one of those ""unskewed polls" like the ones that showed Romney winning in a landslide.

      Boehner's bluffing, and he's doing it badly.

    •  because real america (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      PrahaPartizan

      the GOP wont make their case to the public because the great majority of the public consists of Fake Americans (as denoted by their tendency not to vote for Republicans).

      In Real America, cutting Social Security and Medicare and programs for the poor and working class is tremendously popular.  

      Boehner would be king, but for the tyranny of popular elections.

    •  Boehner has no way to make "his" case. (0+ / 0-)

      The Tea Party zealots in the House are elected by district. Their belligerence is what they say they reflect based on their voters. Boehner has no vehicle to talk district by district ... and wouldn't oppose his Congress members in their back yard in any event.

      And with respect, it isn't a matter of "smart". It's a matter of getting elected and staying elected.

      2014 IS COMING. Build up the Senate. Win back the House : 17 seats. Plus!

      by TRPChicago on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 12:56:50 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Boehner needs to specify just what the (18+ / 0-)

    Republicans want for the bill.  Since the Republicans can't figure it out amongst themselves, Boehner will either have to work something out with Nancy Pelosi or just try and kick the can down the road again.

    I just hope President Obama doesn't offer deals again.  I think he should just refuse any further discussions with them on the economic packages until they give him a debt ceiling bill.  OK to then discuss his grand bargains or whatever, but until the Republicans give him the debt ceiling raise (or abolishment) he ought to focus his time and efforts on the other things he needs to get done - gun control, health care (including mental health), immigration, environment, putting his cabinet together.

    The thing Democrats should not do is offer up specific programs to cut - the Republicans need to do that.

    Then again, President Obama has never listened to my little chirping so I don't expect him to do as I've asked here either.

    •  Boehner will have to - the bill will come out of (9+ / 0-)

      House first.  There will be no grand bargain backroom negotiating this time, back to the regular order of things.  This was one of the promises Boehner made to his caucus to remain Speaker - no more one-on-one backroom negotiating.  

      So the House will have to spell out their cuts first and then send it goes to the Senate.  

      "The world is made for people who aren't cursed with self awareness" -Annie Savoy (Bull Durham)

      by Jacoby Jonze on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 11:09:07 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Wish I had a "super Rec" button (5+ / 0-)

      Exactly what needs to happen.  Force them to pass something.  They can't even vote for their own wet dream "Plan B," so how will they put anything up for the Debt Ceiling?  I forsee another fold of the cards from the GOP.

      I'm a mushroom. Kept in the dark and fed....you know

      by The Voice from the Cave on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 11:12:14 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  get other things done? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      whaddaya

      Ummm.. please 'splain to me how you do that with a House that will refuse to take up anything BUT the debt limit and spending?

      •  Filling out his cabinet is something between (0+ / 0-)

        the President and the Senate.

        The only bills that have to go through the House first, technically, are the spending bills.  He can get the Senate working on the other things and when/if stuff makes it out of the Senate it will be sitting with the motions from Pelosi to bring the various bills to the House floor the same way she tried getting the tax bill passed right before the end of the year.  

        Sure those bills won't be taken up by the House (or at best they'd get taken up and then assigned to committees) but the Democrats would be able to beat up the Republicans that they're doing nothing at all in the House and those Republicans not involved with appropriations want to do something to keep their own names in the news, even if it's just grandstanding about how they're voting to investigate Solyndra, how they're passing measures to put armed guards in every school and shopping mall in America or they're repealing Obamacare.

      •  If it were something the public truly wanted, (0+ / 0-)

        you know, some populist policy for example, he could whip them with the public (us). (Heck, with Hurricane Sandy, I bet he could get significant support for a green energy program.)

        Of course, he would actually have to take responsibility for doing so. And Democrats on the Hill would have to take responsibility for the legislation. And there's the rub. They'd just as soon blame Republicans, kick the can down the road, and attempt to avoid responsibility. Of course, that won't work out so well for them 2014...

        The Class, Terror and Climate Wars are indivisible and the short-term outcome will affect the planet for centuries. -WiA "When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill..." - PhilJD

        by Words In Action on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 12:09:45 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  The Repugs want the economic and social chaos... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    eataTREE, skod, whaddaya, stagemom

    ...that would follow if the debt ceiling is not raised.

    They rather destroy the country and prevail in the turmoil because they feel they have the guns they need.  We are not dealing with the traditional political dynamic.

    Obama better have a "plan B" ready because it may happen and very soon.

    Daily Kos an oasis of truth. Truth that leads to action.

    by Shockwave on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 11:05:25 AM PST

    •  agreed (5+ / 0-)

      i think they truly believe the national memory hole will swallow this all up and at the end of the day, people will remember that time everything caught fire and melted down and think "oh yeah, that was obama's second term".

      and since no media outlet has yet explained the debt ceiling, the fiscal cliff, or even how tax rates or non-gold-standard currency works, they may be right.

      If only Michael Phelps hadn't smoked that pot...imagine what he could have accomplished with motivation and good lung capacity.

      by papa monzano on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 11:17:25 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Maybe there is a faction within (17+ / 0-)

      the far-right GOP base that feels this way. But I assure you that the plutocrats and moneymen who run the whole Republican show do not. The global economic crisis that resulted would erase the value of the financial instruments in which reside the bulk of their wealth. They will not allow it to happen.

      This is why Obama is so sanguine here. He knows that the GOP cannot shoot the hostage; ergo, there really isn't one.

      Obama is perhaps not at the level of playing eleven-dimensional chess, but he can at least play a mean game of poker. The Republicans are bluffing here and Obama intends to call them.

      Visit Lacking All Conviction, your patch of grey on those too-sunny days.

      by eataTREE on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 11:20:59 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  The Press Conference today made a lot (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      majcmb1, Shockwave, stagemom

      of sense of all of the Executive Branch rejections of the options they might have if the Debt Ceiling is not raised, for me.

      The White House is betting that by basically getting out of the fray and putting the responsibility on the House Republicans to address the issue of the Debt Limit, that that will be enough of a deterrent to actually using the Debt Limit as a threat to the American people and the country.

      By saying that there is no "plan B" to be found in the Executive Branch, it makes it difficult for the Republicans to blame him for failure to raise the limit and ending up in default - or even just coming close to doing so.

      I don't think. though, that any of that means that there is no "plan B" - just that the White House is trying to make the point that any "back up plan" would assume a default scenario which isn't an acceptable option.

  •  Pres also has sequester cuts in his back pocket... (19+ / 0-)

    If GOP pass a bill through the House that is draconian on entitlement cuts, he can simply say "I'll cut more by allowing the sequester cuts to happen".  

    Basically the GOP has to negotiate against the sequester cuts as well, and since the SS, Medicare, Medicaid, Vets Benefits/care is all walled off - they're basically going to argue it's better to cut those programs than what would be cut by the trigger.  

    "The world is made for people who aren't cursed with self awareness" -Annie Savoy (Bull Durham)

    by Jacoby Jonze on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 11:07:16 AM PST

    •  Yes, the president seems, to me, to have (9+ / 0-)

      much more leverage than people are giving him credit for.

      •  The Continuing Resolution Is A Publicly Obscured (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Wednesday Bizzare

        but vital chip here too.

        The Sequester leverage favors the Dems for the reasons you stated but extending the CR (aka keeping the gov't open) seems to be where the GOTP may have some real leverage.

        Yet since they voted for the political disaster known as the Ryan Budget, the GOTP seems twice shy about actually penning any budget plans.  

        Remember when Ryan, the head of the House Budget Cmte., was forced to admit that he and Rmoney had not run the numbers on their budget proposals?  Boehner, McConnel and Obama are dealing with ignorant, self-serving grifters who are insulated by gerrymandering.  

        At the end of the day, I expect the establishment GOP and the WH to leave the over-matched loudmouths gutted and wondering what happened to them.

  •  Boehner (16+ / 0-)

    can't produce a spending cuts bill,  because he and the asshats in the Rethug caucus are too chickenshit to put their names on a bill to end SS, Medicare, Veteran's Benefits, etc.

    They want the Democrats to do it for them.  Hopefullly the President isn't that painfully stupid to do it for them.

  •  republicans refusing to pay for bush's (9+ / 0-)

    unfunded/unholy wars...

    preferring to ransom off America's children vets and codgers

    oh, and while i'm here, i'd like to request that not one more dime of federal funding goes to a single one of marcia blackburn's "constituents" who all demand that federal spending cease immediately

    to hear her tell it

    "Show up. Pay attention. Tell the truth. And don't be attached to the results." -- Angeles Arrien

    by Sybil Liberty on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 11:16:21 AM PST

  •  People fail to understand that the Republicans (9+ / 0-)

    want to create havoc, and shutting down the government is part of their agenda.  They have been looking for an excuse to do so.  If not this time, it will be something else.

    These people are not reasonable; you guys (the left) think you are dealing with normal people.  This is a cult-like group and destroying the proper function of the government IS their agenda.

    They are succeeding, moving it forward...

    •  So perhaps we have to suffer that (8+ / 0-)

      in order for them finally to lose all political viability.

      This strategy wasn't my first choice - but it may work out for the best in the long run so long as President Obama doesn't blink.

      “What’s the use of having developed a science well enough to make predictions if, in the end, all we’re willing to do is stand around and wait for them to come true?” - Sherwood Rowland

      by jrooth on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 11:22:27 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  But they have a plan. This is all being done (3+ / 0-)

        very carefully, believe it or not.  Once they totally paralyze government, they will offer solutions through the "private sector" and in the chaos and confusion and pain, people will be willing to entertain any messaging that promises to bring about order.

        This is very dangerous; people are being blindsided by not understanding this.  They have an agenda, a plan, a vision, and they are almost about to bring it to fruition.

        •  Their plan, like their election, is based upon (9+ / 0-)

          faulty logic and believing their own snake oil salesmen.  This will backfire on them and on their benefactors and I believe it will hasten their decline into irrelvancy.

          •  I give you one metric you can use to evaluate (0+ / 0-)

            all this: has the rate at which wealth and income flowing to the plutocrats eased during the last few years?  Has income inequality gotten better or worse?

            •  It's not what has happened, but what will (0+ / 0-)

              happen after they shut down the government.  Sure, they tend to win whether the economy is good or bad, but their wins won't be quite so successful and they might have to put off their fourth yacht purchase this year.

            •  I think you are introducing an important point (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              jan4insight, Ray Pensador, ColoTim

              that is frequently missed by many on the left and the right.  Chaos and uncertainly are frightening for people.  The reason for most failed revolutions (at least as far as the ideals of the revolution go) end up because some group is willing to come in and offer stability and safety.  Usually in the form of more repression and fear.  It's easy for people to say that crashing the economy would be a good lesson for people to learn about Republicans.  But I'm sure the true power behind Republican policy certainly understands what will happen.  And what profit can be made in coming in to fix the problems.  Very rarely in history have those "saviors" had the interest of the people at heart.  A month without government checks with the economy in flux will not be a pretty thing.  So for people to dismiss even trying to avoid crashing the economy is naive at best.  And this is without even addressing the (faulty in my opinion) concept that voters will suddenly understand that Republican policy is bad and blame them for it.  There's been plenty of opportunity for that and I don't think some real suffering will make people better able to discern the problems within the GOP.

              "Speak the TRUTH, even if your voice shakes."

              by stellaluna on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 12:00:04 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  You are giving them way too much credit. (9+ / 0-)

          What little republican leadership that does exist can't even control it's own membership.

          I highly doubt that anything is going according to their plans as their plans surely did not include a 2nd Obama term.

          Instead of a grand plan, I see the opposite. A lot of short term thinking focused not on the big picture but the politics of that moment. I see small factions and influences battling for power and not one great force pushing them forward.

          They aren't winning.

          •  Very true! (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            majcmb1, librarisingnsf

            They are a bunch of noodle heads and they're busy proving it. If President Obama says No! They say Yes! no matter what he's talking about. They are childish.

            In our sleep, pain which cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart until, in our own despair, comes wisdom through the awful grace of God ~RFK

            by vcmvo2 on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 11:44:22 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Also - this is not taking place in a vacuum (0+ / 0-)

            These TP clowns in their fantasy land about revolution and drowning the government...  Well - here's the thing - for far too long they've just assumed that the lumbering, slumbering left has been too fractured to take up a unified cause.  They are running on borrowed time and delusional - believing that, despite getting trounced in elections, their radical conservative agenda (to steal their phrasing) is far and away how the majority in this country feel about the issues the TP have adopted as their signature.

            They should consider very carefully what they are doing if this is a "grand plan" situation.  There will be MAJOR push back and a counter revolution that would likely bury them.  This is always presented as if the GOP is going to basically back everyone else into a corner, cut off any possible support for any and all programs, all while, you know, 150-200 million or so people sit idly by watching it all happen.  Not a chance if I have anything to say / do about it.

        •  Every path is dangerous (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jrooth

          There is no completely safe way to go.

          I advocate political strategies which will lead to constitutional crisis if they fail, since failure will be evidence that our system is broken and needs to be replaced.

        •  These people are IMO domestic terrorists (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Laconic Lib

          obstruction kills just like a bomb can.  Maybe not as quick but kills just the same.

          We the People have to make a difference and the Change.....Just do it ! Be part of helping us build a veteran community online. United Veterans of America

          by Vetwife on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 11:56:04 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Sorry, I have to just laugh (0+ / 0-)
          This is all being done
          very carefully, believe it or not.
          The only plan these Republicans have every had is to oppose Obama, and that isn't working out so well. They were maneuvered into having to vote for the fiscal cliff bill and they are maneuvered into having to vote for raising the debt ceiling.

          A fair number of them will also have to swallow voting for comprehensive immigration reform...and gun control.

          Yeah, they meant to do all that. It was part of the plan to lull us into a false sense of confidence. Or something.

    •  Indeed.. and all this talk of "default on debt" (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      whaddaya

      is silly.  There is more than enough income each month to pay the interest on the national debt.

      The Repubs will simply shut down very big pieces of the federal government to pay for it.  Close national parks.  Put all federal employees on furlough 2 days a week.  etc.. etc.. they could go on like that for months without defaulting one red cent on the debt.

    •  No one here thinks that they are reasonable (7+ / 0-)

      or even sane. However, the money wing of the Pubs is not in favor of default. There are enough Republicans who favor money over havoc to make sure this won't actually happen.

    •  If the U.S. Bond falls (9+ / 0-)

      so does every financial instrument in the world. The Tea Party theatrics aside, the GOP is still run by and for billionaires who have no intention of allowing their wealth to be erased in this manner. Don't confuse the goals of the manipulated dupes with the goals of their masters.

      Visit Lacking All Conviction, your patch of grey on those too-sunny days.

      by eataTREE on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 11:36:04 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  This is wishful thinking; that the well-being of (0+ / 0-)

        the supra-national plutocrats is tied in with that of the country.  If people think this, we're in for a rude awakening. The plutocrats want to bring down the U.S. government.  Any financial loses on their side will just be cost of doing business.

        After the dust settles, you'll have them fully in control, while the regulatory framework and the social safety net would have be torn down.  That is their agenda...

        •  asdf (6+ / 0-)

          the clowns couldnt even jump off the fiscal curb...aint gonna happen, as long as Pres Obama stays firm. In the meantime, I'm gonna look for cheap bluechip stock to buy from the panickers. .

          Dems in swing districts: INSIST your republican rep incr tax on the wealthy -gerrymandering makes rep vulnerable...swing district list: http://www.dailykos.com/comments/1162387/48457188

          by grrr on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 11:45:45 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  You overestimate them on a number of fronts (3+ / 0-)

          chiefly the size of their balls.

          Too much chaos and no one, not even a plutocrat, can be certain of the outcome. It might shake out the way you describe with the rich consolidating their power; or we might experience the Second Coming Of Lenin (and I don't mean John).

          Plutocrats are already at the top of the existing order and there is no reason for them to take such risks merely to satisfy fifty-year-old John Bircher political grudges like dismantling Social Security and Medicare.

          Visit Lacking All Conviction, your patch of grey on those too-sunny days.

          by eataTREE on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 11:57:08 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  They are Neo-Confederates (0+ / 0-)

      Democracy is great as long as the people you like always win and only serve the right kinds of Americans.  If not, burn it all down and fall back on "states rights" (and we all know what that means).

  •  Is acting responsibly (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    whaddaya, implicate order

    really an option for them ?
    I doubt they could ever fake acting responsibly .

    "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

    by indycam on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 11:19:50 AM PST

  •  I think he underestimates (6+ / 0-)

    the craziness of congressional Republicans.

    That said, this is a valid strategy providing he carries through all the way.  He absolutely must not cave at the last moment, even if it means the Republicans going through with their threat.

    I've been a proponent of either the 14th Amendment option or else the coin seigniorage idea because I've felt either one was worth the political price to prevent a government shutdown or default - but I'll support this choice as well if it's for real and not merely a prelude to another cave.

    “What’s the use of having developed a science well enough to make predictions if, in the end, all we’re willing to do is stand around and wait for them to come true?” - Sherwood Rowland

    by jrooth on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 11:20:14 AM PST

  •  I agree the Weeper nof the House is probably (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ColoTim, cocinero, whaddaya, shoeless

    bluffing and at any rate can be easiltyoutmaneuvered by a Senate not thwarted by the present filibuster tactics. But I wish Obama would have surrogates allude to a 14th Amendment solution (which others in the administration could then elliptically deny).

    "They will not collect a ransom in exchange for not crashing the American economy. The full faith and credit of the United States of America is not a bargaining chip."

    by TofG on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 11:21:14 AM PST

    •  If the President mints the coin (and uses it) (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      grrr, vcmvo2, FistJab

      I believe the Republicans will impeach him.  I will lay my own coin down that it goes very badly for the Republicans after that, but heck, they won't care until they lose power which hopefully would be the very next election.  They can't control themselves and their words will hang them out to dry.

  •  I thought the Prez did very well this morning, (18+ / 0-)

    particularly in light of Chucklehead Todd & the Brotherhood of the Traveling Asshats.

  •  I believe that they will shut down the government, (5+ / 0-)

    if given the chance, I really do.  I don't think they are bluffing but we must stand strong regardless.

    No Grand Bargains.....make them own it, bluff or no.

    •  Some in the GOP caucus would welcome (0+ / 0-)

      a shutdown. On the debt ceiling, it may end up being up to Boehner. Will he bring a clean bill to the floor (that comes from the Senate) or will he block consideration (based on the Hastert rule)?

      •  It worked so well for them under Gingrich (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cocinero

        *I was there. The American people hate government shutdowns. Obama would be smart to shut down the post offices in every Republican district, day one.

        "Work for something because it is good, not just because it stands a chance to succeed." -- Vaclav Havel

        by greendem on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 12:01:27 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Like many here, I was pissed (11+ / 0-)

    when Obama came out this weekend scuttling the idea of the coin. But...after today's press conference, I do see the logic behind it: with #mintthecoin, the whole focus of attention is on what the president is going to do. Now, hopefully at least, the focus is on congress and how much they suck. Amping up the anger towards house republicans is good opening leverage in the sure-to-be-upcoming budget cut talks.

  •  they will come to this "compromise": (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wbishop3, shoeless, whaddaya, Laconic Lib

    the defense sequester will be removed in exchange for the Republicans grudgingly agreeing to take the debt ceiling off the table, at least for the moment.

    Then the Republicans can use the rest of the sequester as a weapon to threaten the Democrats with, if they don't get what they want in future negotiations. Because massive, across-the-board non-defense spending cuts are exactly what they love most.

    And if they're actually forced to make good on their threat, they can follow through and use their weapon without blowing themselves up (which they couldn't have done with the debt ceiling).

    The debt ceiling was a bad weapon to actually use, but it served to force the Democrats to hand them a much more effective weapon that they could actually use--the sequester, now stripped of the defense cuts that would have hurt them.

    After that, the GOP will threaten to inflict the sequester on the country, and Obama will urge the Democratic caucus to sign off on his Grand Bargain on the social safety net in order to appease them. The Democrats, being forced to choose between massive budget cuts and cuts to the New Deal, will probably sign off on the latter.

    And thus, it will done! The 1%'s eighty-year-old project to roll back SS will be well on its way.

    "In America, the law is king." --Thomas Paine

    by limpidglass on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 11:25:31 AM PST

    •  Hope you're wrong (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      grrr, shoeless, whaddaya

      There is plenty of time to construct the narrative that forces the GOP to flinch.

      Cities are good for the environment

      by citydem on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 11:32:06 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Well that is a grim prediction (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      shoeless

      Why Obama would cave on the defense sequester cuts is beyond me.  Those automatic cuts are his ace card.  I'd like to see the sequester go through.  It would be the only time we would ever see defense cuts with this Congress.  I am just unsure about how the social programs would be effected by the sequester.  I wish we had more clarity on this.

      "Art is a lie that makes you realize the truth." - Picasso

      by she the technocrat on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 11:34:27 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  He doesn't support the defense cuts (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        limpidglass, Laconic Lib

        so it's hard to see how that's leverage against the Republicans.

        “What’s the use of having developed a science well enough to make predictions if, in the end, all we’re willing to do is stand around and wait for them to come true?” - Sherwood Rowland

        by jrooth on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 11:46:22 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  he promised to cave in the debates (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Laconic Lib, OldSoldier99

        The third debate

        ROMNEY:...And I will not cut our military budget by a trillion dollars, which is a combination of the budget cuts the president has, as well as the sequestration cuts. That, in my view, is making -- is making our future less certain and less secure.

        OBAMA: Bob, I just need to comment on this.

        First of all, the sequester is not something that I've proposed. It is something that Congress has proposed. It will not happen.

        The budget that we are talking about is not reducing our military spending. It is maintaining it.

        Believe the president when he says this. The defense sequester won't happen and military spending won't be reduced.

        "In America, the law is king." --Thomas Paine

        by limpidglass on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 11:59:03 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Will Obama stand firm? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Words In Action, OldSoldier99

    Doubtful!!!!

    Psst!!!......Mittens you are more of a poor loser than I thought.

    by wbishop3 on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 11:32:52 AM PST

  •  Nice summary! nt (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bewareofme, cocinero

    "I'm sculpting now. Landscapes mostly." ~ Yogi Bear

    by eXtina on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 11:33:59 AM PST

  •  GOP/Teabaggers don't give a s**t about the country (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    majcmb1, shoeless

    "....The longer they take, the worse the politics will be for them—and, more importantly, the worse it will be for the country."

    Unfortunately, the only real pressure on the House GOP is the politics for them. Those guys don't give a shit about the country. If fact, for them, a country who would elect a non-american like BHO is not a country worth giving a shit about.

  •  Boehner Crying (0+ / 0-)

    Can we stop making fun of Boehner for crying?  It's childish and annoying.

    This is supposed to be a site for progressive values, and allowing men to show their emotions without being ridiculed is one of them.

  •  One argument I have not heard (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    grrr, shoeless, cocinero, OldSoldier99

    at least not from an elected official is that raising the debt ceiling is not akin to an increase in your credit card limit so you can rack up more debt. It is more like getting an extension on your mortgage payment deadline so the bank does not foreclose.

    I wish more Dems would make that distinction.

  •  Oh my (4+ / 0-)
    The only hope Republicans have of prevailing is if President Obama caves on his refusal to negotiate with hostage-takers.
    We are seriously in deep shit then.
  •  Guns, Oil, Ponzi schemes (0+ / 0-)

    GOP

  •  It's cute that the leader of an entity... (3+ / 0-)

    with 10% approval still claims to speak for what "the American people want"...

    "It's almost as if we're watching Mitt Romney on Safari in his own country." -- Jonathan Capeheart

    by JackND on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 11:57:42 AM PST

  •  Let's take the new debt $1 for $1 (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Words In Action, OldSoldier99

    Out of the Pentagon's bloated budget.

    "Work for something because it is good, not just because it stands a chance to succeed." -- Vaclav Havel

    by greendem on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 11:59:14 AM PST

  •  I wish one of the dems...would take to the (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Words In Action, OldSoldier99

    floor and use the filibuster like Mr. Smith and go on for days and days about how Republicans never worried about debts, or anything of that sort when we invaded countries, started wars and they were in control.
    I would want him to hold the floor until they would be happy to get rid of the filibuter.  When he fell, another would stand and filibuster about republicans and hold the floor.   There is a way to stop the nonsense and this is one way.

    We the People have to make a difference and the Change.....Just do it ! Be part of helping us build a veteran community online. United Veterans of America

    by Vetwife on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 12:01:20 PM PST

  •  Now that they've eliminated the coin leverage, (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OldSoldier99

    whether they were open to use it or not, what is their Plan B? Clearly, to negotiate away cuts to a social program.

    And what's to stop the Republicans from forcing him to do so or trash the economy? Nothing. They don't want it to recover on his watch, anyway.

    Will Obama let the economy tank? No. So what's his option, now that the coin is gone? Cut social programs.

    Brilliant.

    The Class, Terror and Climate Wars are indivisible and the short-term outcome will affect the planet for centuries. -WiA "When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill..." - PhilJD

    by Words In Action on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 12:04:11 PM PST

    •  The onus is on Boehner and the Republicans (0+ / 0-)

      The Republicans are the ones with the bomb.  Obama can't take the ability to make bombs away from them (they still control the House), so Obama can only win by convincing them to stop making bombs.

      The thing to understand here is that even if Obama steps in and disarms the bomb (say by declaring his intention to use the trillion dollar coin), they'll just go ahead and make another bomb.

      But the way it is now, even if the Republicans detonate their bomb there's no reason why Obama can't then decide to avert the catastrophe with a magic $1 Trillion coin.  The Republicans look like monsters, Obama looks like a super-hero.

      Frankly, I think Obama believes the game is already over and he's won.

  •  Proceed, "Gov-nah" (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FistJab

    To your Republican Waterloo.

  •  Cut spending! Stop sending Federal dollars to (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OldSoldier99

    Red States and Red Districts.   They don't like government spending so don't make them participate in it.  

  •  STOP THE PRESSES!!!! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    eataTREE, CrissieP

    Boehner said "Democratic."

    ...we will insist that the Democratic majority in Washington do the same.
    Maybe the Mayans missed it by a few weeks?
  •  The Repugs are not concerned about "spending" (0+ / 0-)

    what they want, is smaller government. Thats what this fight is about.

  •  It still say the POTUS.................. (0+ / 0-)

    and congressional Dems are going a piss-poor job of educating voters on this matter. Folks on here know what is going on but if you ask Joe Schmoe on the street he will say, "The President wants to raise the debt limit so HE can spend more of OUR money."

    It needs to be hammered every day that the debt is not created by the POTUS but by Congress. It is the duty of the POTUS to pay the bills created by Congress with the funds provided by Congress.

    The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation--HDT

    by cazcee on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 02:11:05 PM PST

  •  Talk Is Cheap (0+ / 0-)

    "The only hope Republicans have of prevailing is if President Obama caves on his refusal to negotiate with hostage-takers."

    Talk is cheap.  I hope Obama's talk isn't.  Hopefully, Obama has learned something from his first four years, and that something is that you can't reason with irrational people.  Republicans love to bullshit about their "love" for their country, especially about "American exceptionalism," whatever the hell THAT is supposed to mean.  Now they have a golden opportunity to put their money where their mouth is by working with Barak Obama to solve the country's financial problems.  The biggest problem they have, though, is that they are working against a true intellectual who is realms beyond them in smarts.  Obama obviously has answers to offer if he stands firm.  Do the Republican have any?  The ball is now in the Republicans' court.

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site