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views on debt celiing from public

WaPo:

President Obama heads into his second term with political momentum on his side, and leads congressional Republicans when it comes to dealing with the country’s debt limit according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.

More Americans now approve of the way Obama is doing his job than at any point in the past three years, except for a fleeting spike upward after the killing of Osama bin Laden. The number seeing him as a “strong leader” is sharply higher, and a clear majority again sees him as empathetic with the problems they face.

AP:
Americans were angrier about last month's horrific school shooting in Connecticut than they were about the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, according to a new Associated Press-GfK poll.
 
My buddy (& fellow gun owner) Steve Mostyn nails it.  "I'm not anti-gun. I'm just not pro-dumbass."  Amen.  http://t.co/...
@PaulBegala via web

USA Today:
In this town where tragedy relaunched the nation's debate over gun violence, people on all sides of the political divide expressed support Wednesday for President Obama's proposals to ban assault weapons and establish tighter background checks for gun buyers.
Bloomberg:
Obama got it right when he said, “We’ve got to stop lurching from crisis to crisis to crisis.” One way to avoid these tiresome disputes would be for Congress to give the White House power over the debt ceiling, so the U.S. can avoid a sideshow that threatens the “full faith and credit” pledge made to those who buy U.S. debt. Republicans, however, reject this as a power grab by the White House.

So here’s another way to end the fight: Tie spending decisions to automatic increases in the debt limit. The premise is simple — when Congress passes a budget resolution or spending bill, it should also authorize a concurrent increase in the statutory debt limit to pay for what it’s authorizing. This would have the added benefit of fostering fiscal restraint by linking spending decisions to the Congress that authorizes the money. If that local airport runway (or, as the case may be, “Bridge to Nowhere”) is in the budget, then the Treasury Department can raise the debt limit to pay for it. No additional congressional action would be necessary.

Jeff Golinkin/The Week:
Why is the GOP trying to commit political suicide?

Congressional Republicans seem intent on behaving like children and, in doing so, making the president look positively reasonable by comparison


As Obama calls for background checks of all gun buyers, a new NYT/CBS poll find 9 in 10 gun owners favor it: http://t.co/...
@coopnytimes via Tweet Button

Josh Kraushaar/National Journal:
Cuomo, O’Malley: Ready for Prime Time?

Betting on gun control won't be a winning strategy for them in 2016.

Evan Thomas/Bloomberg:
The conflict between Chuck Hagel, President Barack Obama’s nominee for U.S. secretary of defense, and his neoconservative detractors feels personal. Hagel once disparaged the neocons as “chicken hawks,” and the neocons call Hagel “an appeaser.”
But beneath the name calling lies a deeper and more substantive divide in the Republican Party that goes back more than a half-century.

Hagel has told friends that he takes Dwight Eisenhower, a fellow soldier, as his model. Hagel and Eisenhower were different kinds of warriors: Hagel was a noncommissioned officer wounded twice in combat; Eisenhower was a commanding general who never saw combat. But Hagel shares Eisenhower’s strong reluctance to use military force to intervene in foreign crises. Unlike civilians who have never served or commanded in war, Eisenhower had, and Hagel has, a good understanding of everything that can go wrong on the battlefield.

Ron Fournier/National Journal:
There are fair arguments to be had over Obama's proposals: Redefining the Second Amendment shouldn't be done without a vigorous debate. But to drag the president's daughters into the fight, and to question their need for security, suggests that the NRA is slipping further away from the mainstream. Over-the-top tactics discredit the NRA and its cause.

Gun-rights supporters deserve a better advocate...

"You have to wonder if they've got competent management," said a senior administration official who spoke on condition of anonymity so as not to be openly gloating.

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Comment Preferences

  •  michael scherer (23+ / 0-)
    Republicans in both chambers, resistant to betraying a key constituency, will have to feel the sting of sustained public outrage for the effort to succeed.
    http://swampland.time.com/...

    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

    by Greg Dworkin on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 04:30:53 AM PST

  •  But, But, But, . . . (12+ / 0-)

    People told me he lost all of his leverage two weeks ago!!!

    I miss Speaker Pelosi :^(

    by howarddream on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 04:39:23 AM PST

  •  In case you missed it (21+ / 0-)

    We don't all live in Newtown. But I do. from yesterday.

    There's a few of us on this blog.

    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

    by Greg Dworkin on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 04:43:56 AM PST

    •  Did you see the story of the University professor (14+ / 0-)

      in Florida who says the massacre never happened?

      He now complains he is being "investigated" byt the academic institution.

      “They’re getting people calling them saying that this person shouldn’t be teaching, he’s an awful person and what have you, so I think that they have to do something,” Tracy told University Press.

      “I don’t know what there’s going to be. I don’t know if that would involve stripping me of my tenure and dismissing me, or what. That’s something that’s ultimately for them to decide.”

      Last month, Tracy claimed the tragic shooting of 20 young schoolchildren in Newtown could be part of a conspiracy to push for gun control. He went so far to question whether the shooting even actually happened, or was just an invention of Obama and the media.

      His conspiracy theory gained national attention after numerous media outlets, including CNN’s Anderson Cooper, reported on it.

      Big surprise, eh?

      Nutjobs.

      The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

      by xxdr zombiexx on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 05:10:52 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  yep (7+ / 0-)

        hurtful, hateful nutjob.

        "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

        by Greg Dworkin on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 05:14:26 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Absolutely hardcore delusional thinking. (4+ / 0-)

          It will most likely cost him his job.

          The scary part is MILLIONS believe this guy. I know you saw the bit about the nutjobs stalking and harassing the man who helped shelter some of the kids... ALL those people are delusional.

          They have a verifiably FALSE idea about [inset wingnut object d'hate] and they make decisions based on those delusions.

          If your measurements are false your end-product is screwed.

          The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

          by xxdr zombiexx on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 05:29:35 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Delusional thinking is not limited to (6+ / 0-)

            conservatives.  Ron Fournier is completely off base with this assertion:

            There are fair arguments to be had over Obama's proposals: Redefining the Second Amendment shouldn't be done without a vigorous debate.
            I have not heard one proposal from the president that redefines the Second Amendment.  Where did this delusion come from?

            When Fournier stepped down as Editor-in-Chief at the National Journal so he could write articles for the publication, maybe he should have kept stepping until he reached the level of fact-checker.

            "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

            by SueDe on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 06:25:43 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  SCOTUS redefined the second amendment (0+ / 0-)

              in the face of the unambiguous letter of the law,

              A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State...
              and abundant historical evidence of founders' intent.

              Obama declined to challenge that misreading, and his proposals are within its constraints.

               Hopefully he will get to replace one of the right wing "Justices" and the decision will be reversed in time.

              There's no such thing as a free market!

              by Albanius on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 12:05:07 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

      •  I remember they had a prof at Northwestern... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        xxdr zombiexx

        ....who said the holocaust never happened.

        Not sure whatever happened to him.....

        "Michael Moore, who was filming a movie about corporate welfare called 'Capitalism: A Love Story,' sought and received incentives."

        by Bush Bites on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 05:37:33 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  May he receive all he deserves. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        xxdr zombiexx

        You can't make this stuff up.

        by David54 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 07:07:51 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Competent management? (10+ / 0-)

    I wonder if LaPierre is sane...

    When the union's inspiration /Through the workers' blood shall run /There can be no power greater /Anywhere beneath the sun /Solidarity Forever!

    by litho on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 04:47:40 AM PST

  •  Let's stop calling it "gun violence." It's "gun (9+ / 0-)

    MURDER"! What happened in Newtown must never happen again.  Is half the population of this country really so crazed it wants to be able to buy assault weapons along with canned peas and Pringles?

    Thanks for the roundup, Greg.

    "Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

    by Diana in NoVa on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 04:49:58 AM PST

    •  Taking the 'Mass' out of mass murder. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Aunt Pat, S F Hippie
    •  really, really good piece here (10+ / 0-)

      Gun experts grade Obama’s proposals

      Weird that some reporters are talking about assault weapons ban's long odds in Congress as if it's the only measure on the table.
      @ThePlumLineGS via TweetDeck
      @ThePlumLineGS right.  AWB is the bill Dems will use to negotiate.  Dropping it is the compromise
      @chucktodd via Twitter for iPad

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 04:52:40 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Exactly right on the assault weapons ban... (5+ / 0-)

        I think Obama knows that is not likely to pass, but if he uses that as the negotiating bargaining chip and gives it up to get universal background checks, ban on extended ammo clips and whatnot, he'll consider it a good deal done (as will I too).

        Universal background checks especially, I think, is going to pass, as that has a wide margin of support. And that'll drive the NRA utterly up the wall, because they see that as some Orwellian nightmare and another method to confiscate guns. LaPierre may start foaming at the mouth.

        •  I'm still a little unclear (0+ / 0-)

          on how they can enforce the rule that private sellers have to do background checks. If I have a gun and sell it to you directly, how would anybody know if a background check was done unless there was a federal gun register, which there isn't, and you later committed a crime with that gun

          •  Using a version of Dram Shop (4+ / 0-)

            Kind of like the bar can be sued if a drunk driver kills someone.

            If a background check isn't done, the seller is responsible for the actions of the new owner of the gun.

          •  When a private seller sells a car to a private (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            MRobDC, myboo

            buyer, there's a form--a bill of sale--that has to be filled out and filed. Then the new owner has to register the car (and pay sales tax).  If there is no registration requirement for guns, I'm not clear about how anyone would be able to check.

            Frankly, I think there should be an insurance requirement to have a gun. If there were, then the Ins. Co's would definitely want a background check, to protect their investment.

            Somehow, there has to be liability attached to ownership of a deadly weapon.  

            "Why reasonable people go stark raving mad when anything involving a Negro comes up, is something I don’t pretend to understand." ~ Atticus Finch, "To Kill a Mockingbird"

            by SottoVoce on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 06:55:50 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  This (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              myboo

              If I have to register my car so that the state knows who it belongs to, why shouldn't someone have to register a gun? If I run you over and flee, they'll find me by running the registration of the car. If I shoot you and run, oh well? That makes no sense.

            •  Can't do insurance, because then you are putting (0+ / 0-)

              a price on a constitutional right....mandated by the government....and some wouldn't be able to afford it.   A car is different and it is not a constitutional right, so insurance mandates are not unconstitutional.   It's the same principle as Voter IDs have to be free.

              •  Crawford v. Marion County Election Board (0+ / 0-)

                Having to pay for an ID is not unconstitutional.

                •  The Voter IDs in Indiana were free and still are (0+ / 0-)

                   It was the cost of documents to get an ID and/or travel time and energy that was in question.  

                  Leading Opinion:

                  "The relevant burdens here are those imposed on eligible voters who lack photo identification cards that comply with SEA 483.[2] Because Indiana's cards are free, the inconvenience of going to the Bureau of Motor Vehicles, gathering required documents, and posing for a photograph does not qualify as a substantial burden on most voters' right to vote, or represent a significant increase over the usual burdens of voting. The severity of the somewhat heavier burden that may be placed on a limited number of persons—e.g., elderly persons born out-of-state, who may have difficulty obtaining a birth certificate—is mitigated by the fact that eligible voters without photo identification may cast provisional ballots that will be counted if they execute the required affidavit at the circuit court clerk’s office. Even assuming that the burden may not be justified as to a few voters, that conclusion is by no means sufficient to establish petitioners’ right to the relief they seek."
        •  I'm a little unclear about the data base (0+ / 0-)

          they're going to use to conduct these background checks.  From what I understand the NICS database is sorely lacking in useful information, not kept up to date, prohibits  cross-agency sharing of information, is hampered by HIPPA regulations and is constantly being starved of funds by Republicans in congress that the FBI needs for keeping it relevant.

          Also, prosecution of gun dealers, public or private, is a function of the ATFE agency, which does not have an agency director (and has not had one for six years), and appointing one requires senate confirmation.  This provides more opportunity for senators opposed to gun control, without reform of senate rules on holds and the filibuster, to keep the agency toothless and unable to enforce whatever regulations and/or laws that are enacted.

          "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

          by SueDe on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 06:50:29 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  The AWB (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        skohayes

        is how they are going to get the funding for the rest of the of the measures. They'll take the AWB off the table, that doesn't do a whole lot to actually reduce gun violence, in exchange for increases in mental health and public health funding.

    •  And replace gun with "murder stick" (0+ / 0-)

      And knife with "killing thing".

      Histrionics aren't going to help you get what you want.

      The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

      by xxdr zombiexx on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 05:13:50 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  And not that such a thing would ever be heard (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        nota bene, skohayes

        Gun violence is the specific term because being shot does not equal 'dying' automatically.

        Plenty of people survive being shot. Ms Giffords being a high-profile example. There a re plenty of people who have been shot multiple times still walking around. My running buddy has been shot with a big gun, a small gun, been stabbed and beaten. And lived through a deadly helicopter crash.

        People who think shot = dead have seen too many movies.

        Attempted murder IS the right legal charge, and attempted murder fits UNDER the umbrella of "gun violence".

        If gun regulation is to succeed people need to clarify and clean up their language.

        The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

        by xxdr zombiexx on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 05:39:05 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  framing can be pretty powerful sometimes (0+ / 0-)

          (just ask Frank Luntz)....but I agree that "gun murder" isn't an improvement on "gun violence."

          Views Differ On Shape Of Planet

          by nota bene on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 05:45:05 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I don;t like 'forced birther' because it simply (0+ / 0-)

            sounds fucking stupid.

            I prefer "Anti-Choice" as this is a pervasive definition of the GOP, the Right and the Wingnuts.

            But with the need for gun regulation, language clarity and EXACTNESS is essential and this wailing hysteria of "murder tools' is what gets you discounted in terms of your credible offering to the issue.

            While I am insistent on being confrontational with regards to marijuana reform, I am insistent on level-headed, clear language with a minimum of my own histrionic nonsense for this issue.

            Why? One main reason is that people have used guns to kill over 900 people since Sandy Hook while marijuana has killed nobody. Cops have killed people for the weed, but the weed doesn't kill.

            And the linking of these two issues is at the GOP. The GOP is steadfastly on the other side of American opinion on both gun control and marijuana. Keep guns legal, keep killing people for pot.

            That's the GOP's values and they have totally forced them on Americans. Americans NOW want guns AND marijuana properly regulated. Which means more restrictions on guns and less killing innocent people for the weed.

            The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

            by xxdr zombiexx on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 05:51:30 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  Is half the population (0+ / 0-)

      of this country really so crazed...?

      Apparently not:

      As Obama calls for background checks of all gun buyers, a new NYT/CBS poll find 9 in 10 gun owners favor it...
      NRA doesn't speak for all its members, much less for all gun owners.

      The Republicans are defunding, not defending, America.

      by DSPS owl on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 06:36:03 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm a supporter of the 2A and completely in favor (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Greg Dworkin

        of background checks.  Everyone I know is fine with it....we have always had to do them and so it's no big deal.  I've never bought a gun without it....because I always buy from dealers.

        •  appreciate your thoughtful comments (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Bailey2001

          I know you were not thrilled with the discussion, but now that you have heard the proposals, what do you think now?

          "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

          by Greg Dworkin on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 10:40:55 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I am ok with some of it but not most. I feel that (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Greg Dworkin

            much more could and should be done about illegal activity and that the main focus should be right there and not in any way infringe on law abiding citizens.  Basically use hard core sentences with crimes committed with guns and/or felon possessing them.  Perhaps if a felon knew he would get life in prison for having one, he or she would not risk it. Perhaps.

            I favor background checks and don't mind them as long as they are not attached to registration, that serve no purpose except to "track".  Not in favor of "tracking" in any way.

            Of course, not in favor of insurance, bullet audit, fee and fines as again....these only hinder law abiding citizens from using their Constitutional rights and criminals will not do any of it, and thus never feel anything from it.

            The 10 bullet idea is beyond dumb.  Carry the rest in your pocket....2 guns...5 guns.....it will not stop someone determined on killing people and it only makes law abiding citizens criminals.

            I am ok with gun safety government programs and funds for that purpose....I am just fine with school resource officers as I teach and have worked with them, and they would be a positive for safety.

            I'm on the fence about assault weapons ban.  My husband, who is also a Democrat, is hard core against it, even though he doesn't own one.  My feelings are that again....the criminals will still have their assault weapons, we tried an AWB once before and it failed miserably, and again, it makes criminals out of law abiding citizens....who have a right to own them.  I personally think we could make a law that you can own them but they must stay at your home or transport to or from a gun range to target practice.  Otherwise, they are not to be in public.  I think I would be ok with that.  

             If the assault weapons ban alone happened and nothing more, I think I would be ok with.  My husband would not be....just trying to give you a two person view.

            Hope I answered your question and if you have more, just ask.

            •  thanks (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Bailey2001

              my (and other's) guess is that the AWB will be a bargaining chip traded for the rest.

              I can imagine why an AWB has flaws, thanks to the many honest and clear comments mafde by gun rights folks (I see the other side, just a matter of what's practical) but I cannot imagine why limiting magazine size is bad. Hunters don't care, and sport shooters, honestly, after Newtown need to get themselves some perspective.

              "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

              by Greg Dworkin on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 02:43:08 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  One reason is like the stupidity in New York in (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Greg Dworkin

                which, apparent non gun owners, limited it down to 7 and that makes almost anything commonly owned obsolete and illegal.  It's a slippery slope that will gradually get down to "you can have one bullet loaded in your gun" kind of stuff.

                It's crazy when you think that only law abiding gun owners have to follow these rules....criminals will no more follow them than they do now.   So while I'm counting my bullets, so I don't go to jail....the criminals can have store rooms full of them and illegal guns that hold any number of them...because they don't care if they go to jail, when they get out they will do it again.  

                What New York did was really asinine IMO. No debate, no public opinion.  

                Sorry, don't want to offend, but it is the way I see it.

  •  not where the gop expected they'd be (12+ / 0-)

    ... this time four years ago.

    "President Obama heads into his second term with political momentum on his side, and leads congressional Republicans when it comes to dealing with the country’s debt limit according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.

    More Americans now approve of the way Obama is doing his job than at any point in the past three years, except for a fleeting spike upward after the killing of Osama bin Laden. The number seeing him as a “strong leader” is sharply higher, and a clear majority again sees him as empathetic with the problems they face."

    or just last november for that matter.
  •  Lawrence O'Donnell did a good job last night (10+ / 0-)

    "exposing" the NRA and how its nominating committee works. That the previous chair of that committee lives in Newtown herself was chilling.

    The NRA and the GOP are doing a great job marginalizing themselves. Their unpopularity is going to catch up with them, and soon--that is if the President continues to be committed to no negotiations with either on the issues at hand: more effective gun laws (NRA) and the debt ceiling (GOP).

    What is truth? -- Pontius Pilate

    by commonmass on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 04:51:18 AM PST

    •  Hope investigative reporters, like the one (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      commonmass

      O'Donnell interviewed, keep at it.  When you turn over a rock, you generally find something.  The more we expose how the NRA works, the people who run it and those whose interests it represents, the better off our campaign for sensible regulation of gun ownership and use.

  •  The President is right. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Greg Dworkin, hulibow

    Teetering from crisis to crisis is no way to run a country.  It's not good for managing the government and the results spill over into every aspect of life in the United States.

    He's also right to point the finger directly at Congress.  This is a political problem, and Congress needs to do its job.

    It sounds almost like he is staking out the political ground for a leap into financial "crisis".  If so, I commend him for his courage and his strategic thinking.

    Sometimes you have to be willing to do what it takes.  If the key to avoiding crisis is to let crisis happen,  then let crisis happen.

    Will there be consequences?

    Of course, but there are significant consequences to the current ongoing game of fiscal chicken.  We are a nation of many needs with an economy that isn't working very well for many of our citizens.  These stupid games consume our attention at a time when our attention is very much needed elsewhere.

    Whatever else may happen, it is not a matter of millions will suffer one way and nobody will suffer the other.  Millions suffer. The nation suffers.  If letting "the unthinkable" happen -- or merely being fully prepared to let it happen -- lets us get about the business of fixing our problems, then we should let  "the unthinkable" happen.  Think of it as a national root canal. You put it off as long as you can, you don't enjoy it in the least, but, once it's over, you wonder why you waited so long.

    LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

    by dinotrac on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 04:55:40 AM PST

    •  I'm telling you, you sound like a Dem ;-) (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      hulibow, skohayes

      You have the same problem as the "disinterested" neutral columnists. You can't acknowledge that the D's have the sound centrist position because it'll sound like you're a partisan.    ;-P

      OTOH, you can and do acknowledge that the Rs are nutters these days.

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 05:01:43 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Both sides do it! (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        paradox, skohayes, askew

        Joe Scarborough was pulling that shit this morning - saying the conservative extremist response to any gun conversation was equivalent to Hollywood leftist liberals defending Quinton Tarantino and violent video games. WTF? Is there a Violence is A-Okay liberal lobby?

        I'm pretty tired of being told what I care about.

        by hulibow on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 05:08:24 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Enough with the insults already! ;-) (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Greg Dworkin, skohayes

        I don't even know what a "centrist" is.

        What I do know, is that the current sideshow is a diversion from doing things that matter.  

        I believe the same is true, btw, of the current gun regulation mania, with the key difference that impoved gun regulation is  a good thing, whereas the debt ceiling two-step is just a  stupid dance.

        LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

        by dinotrac on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 05:48:36 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  IOW (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          skohayes

          D positions on both issues are sensible.

          Yeah, i knew that ;-)

          "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

          by Greg Dworkin on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 06:02:51 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Almost... (0+ / 0-)

            There are many D positions in both areas.
            The GOP has been taking the Whackadoodle spotlight lately, but I have full confidence that the Democrats are waiting for their chance to shine.

            LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

            by dinotrac on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 06:09:07 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

  •  The response to the proposals (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Greg Dworkin, Aunt Pat, DRo

    in my local APR were predictable - DC reps screaming about erosion of the Second Amendment and sheriff's claiming they won't enforce any laws that "take away our guns" - can't even start a conversation with these folks. Pox on all of their houses.

    I'm pretty tired of being told what I care about.

    by hulibow on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 04:58:05 AM PST

  •  Even if gun control makes Cuomo & O'Malley (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Aunt Pat

    out of the race in 2016 (and I certainly don't think it will, particularly in the primary, and gun control is almost certainly not going to be the #1 issue people are deciding on in the general), it would make them good VP choices to shore up the left flank, particularly O'Malley. O'Malley may be willing to settle for second fiddle in 2016, because he's only going to be 53. Even if the ticket lost in 2016 that would move him to the front of the line for 2020.

    •  Picking Cuomo would not shore up the "left flank". (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tb mare, Heart of the Rockies

      He is WAY too cozy with Wall Street and he is prepared to throw Upstate NY to the natural gas industry any day now. I'm not saying he'd be a bad VP choice but to me economics and the environment trump social issues by a lot and he is no Progressive when it comes to either of these issues.  

      Let's not let 2014 be anything like 2010. Republicans only win when we stay home!

      by Tim D M on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 05:46:24 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  They can leave (0+ / 0-)

    Conservative lawmakers and politicians across the country are placing the interests of their own party and their own sick and twisted ideology above the safety and protection of innocent Americans and innocent children. I don't know if these hacks really think they are winning support from the majority of the nation with such unhinged language in support of all guns, all the time, but this strategy is clearly not working. Most Americans want tighter gun regulations and want common sense reforms that will stop these mass killings. If Alex Jones or Rand Paul or any other far-right personality -- all a tiny minority of public opinion -- can't take it, they are free to leave the country immediately.   -  progressive

  •  Is Bloomberg the only rational business publisher? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skillet, tb mare

    It's the only one I find myself agreeing with most of the time.

    "Michael Moore, who was filming a movie about corporate welfare called 'Capitalism: A Love Story,' sought and received incentives."

    by Bush Bites on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 05:03:40 AM PST

  •  Bring back the Gephardt Rule?......and lose all of (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skohayes

    these hostages and drama-queens?

  •  Immigration reform is next. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skohayes, DRo

    Keep 'em coming, Prez.

    "Michael Moore, who was filming a movie about corporate welfare called 'Capitalism: A Love Story,' sought and received incentives."

    by Bush Bites on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 05:07:08 AM PST

  •  While I do applaud Obama's efforts on gun control (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Bush Bites, DRo, skohayes, nota bene, tb mare

    it is impossible to overlook the priority disconnect: Obama is protecting gun owners' rights - of which I approve - but still cracking down on marijuana worse than that previous resident.

    we can have all the guns we want but you are going to jail - or worse - for weed.

    that is completely wrong and no fancy arrangement of words corrects it.

    Guns should have the scrutiny weed gets.

    Imagine... if America spent just half what it wastes on the failed war on weed on creating enforcable and actually functioning gun regulations (functioning meaning that gun deaths decline noticeably) : The PSA's at the Superbowl encouraging gun safety instead of lying about marijuana; the cops going into school to preach gun safety and not reefer madness bullshit.

    Nah. Americans seem to identify with stupid priorities, like letting 1% of the country control 40+% of the wealth. WTF sense does that really make? The Top 20% of the country should control 20% of the wealth - the bottom 80% should control 80% of the wealth. (We can just arbitrarily call the 'top 20%' the Top so they can continue to feel superior to other humans.)

    Those stupid priorities are CHAMPIONED by the GOP.

    The GOP wants you to have guns but not weed. They want you to have guns and ammo instead of access to healthcare.

    So, for the record: Guns dangerous, weed not so much.

    Assualt rifles evolved specifically to kill people in large numbers: we can have those. MArijuana never killed anybody, has significant medical and industrial value and generally is a POSITIVE influence on society, if for no other reason marijuana is not really associated with violence.

    Alcohol, on the ther hand, fuels so much mayhem in America. Drink as much of that as you want, drive around with a car full of weapons, but for GOD'S SAKE stay away from THAT PLANT!!!

    And there we have a major reason America looks stupider than shit.

    The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

    by xxdr zombiexx on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 05:08:08 AM PST

    •  Agree with you on pot. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      paradox, xxdr zombiexx, skohayes, tb mare

      But I don't really think the issues are linked.

      Pot and tax revenues.....now you got a winning strategy.

      (Immigration reform and tax revenues too.)

      "Michael Moore, who was filming a movie about corporate welfare called 'Capitalism: A Love Story,' sought and received incentives."

      by Bush Bites on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 05:10:54 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  of course they are linked. (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        skohayes, nota bene, tb mare, S F Hippie

        GOP links them.

        I am unsure how you can't see it.

        Guns kill: have all of them you want.

        Weed doesn't kill - you're going to jail if you touch it.

        The connect IS the disconnect.

        Encouraging sales of dangerous items and threatening innocent people with completel ruination for motherficking nothing.

        They are also connected because ALL the law enforemcent resources are devoted to the war on drugs. Cops could care less about your gun - unless you have weed too - then MAGICALLY your rights are gone. That gun is now a felony. Even if it 150 years old, disassembled and soaking in stripper as a project.

        Totally related because the GOP is protecting killers and harrassing and ruining - and killing - innocent people over something just this side of harmless.

        The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

        by xxdr zombiexx on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 05:17:32 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  As someone who smoked a fair share of pot in the (0+ / 0-)

        day and drank way too much, I am very uncomfortable with legalizing this recreational drug or any other recreational drug. Decriminalization of small amounts, fine, but making it legal will only make for more folks with dependencies. I've been sober for over 20 years. Sober is better.

        And outlawing assault rifles is the least we should do.  

        Victory is sweet-November 6, 2012

        by al23 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 05:19:14 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Duly notes. Legalization (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          skohayes, nota bene

          is the only thing that will work.

          I still enjoy smoking - and being high - so we'll keep working on legalization so we can smoke when we ant without fear of jail, loss of job or being shot to death by those who protect and serve the capitalist pigs.

          Enjoy your soberness and note that relegalization doesn't require you to return to a life of depraved pot smoking.

          I think you should listen to more music that I like.

          it's better than what you like.

          The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

          by xxdr zombiexx on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 05:24:26 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Its not me I worry about (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            xxdr zombiexx

            Its 14 year old kids, you know the  ones they find out they enjoy getting buzzed more than they like doing homework.

            Hey, I still love getting high (that's the problem) but I don't. Maybe you should try getting high on life? You might like that too.

            Peace.

            P.S No one has better taste in music than me.

            Victory is sweet-November 6, 2012

            by al23 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 05:40:21 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I know of nobody that wants children (0+ / 0-)

              and 14 year olds are CHILDREN - smoking anything.

              Legalization MEANS regulation and more regulation will make it more difficult for kids to get weed.

              Right now they get it with impunity and I have to scuttle around in the shadows to get crumbs so I won't lose my house or my job or have my wife deported for nothing.

              And I cant tell you how mad that makes me.

              But I can have all the guns I want.

              WTF kind of sense does this make?

              And your taste in music must pale to mine.

              I studied it. :P

              The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

              by xxdr zombiexx on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 05:44:54 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Bullshit (0+ / 0-)
                Legalization MEANS regulation and more regulation will make it more difficult for kids to get weed.
                Here in Connecticut, its way easier to buy our one legal drug, beverage alcohol, than any illegal drug.

                Sorry dude, but that dog don't hunt.

                Victory is sweet-November 6, 2012

                by al23 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 05:49:04 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  You can't be taken seriously. (3+ / 0-)

                  I am all for banning alcohol again. Americans are more than willing to put up with the carnage of the black market as evidenced by the way they put up with the carnage from guns and from drunk driving and from the war on drugs in general.

                  Regulation of alcohol, if you missed this chapter of history, ended the black market and ended the crime sprees and the massacres associated with it. Sure we still have a major amount of problems with alcohol (How many episodes of COPS involve drunk people?)

                  Regulation of marijuana is what "legalization" means. The terms are interchangeable.

                  Marijuana is NOT regulated. it is out of any known control.

                  Regulating it would control it. Where it is made, where it is sold, to whom it is sold, etc.....

                  If you do not understand this you;re not going to get far in the discussion.

                  The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

                  by xxdr zombiexx on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 06:05:00 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  you missed my point (0+ / 0-)

                    I am totally not in favor of prohibiting alcohol. Just showing how your point that legalizing a drug makes it harder to get makes no sense.

                    Clearer?

                    Victory is sweet-November 6, 2012

                    by al23 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 06:39:48 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                •  And if we get a full ban on AR-15's (0+ / 0-)

                  guess what the next black market is.......

                  Then the fun will begin in earnest.

                  Illegal gun trafficking will likely be 4 times as lucrative as drug trafficking. (Based on the idea that global weapons sales = 4 times what illicit drug sales fetch.

                  Figures may not be accurate but you can bank on the black market is restrictions become stringent enough - however, I think that won't happen and Obama's recommendations are about all we can feasibly do.

                  The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

                  by xxdr zombiexx on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 06:08:35 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                •  So a 14 year old (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Heart of the Rockies

                  can buy alcohol in CT easier than he can get pot (which is commonly sold on middle and high school campuses)?
                  Do they not ask for ID at these stores?

                  “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

                  by skohayes on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 06:15:15 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                •  Easier for underage kids to buy alcohol (0+ / 0-)

                  than to buy pot?  I doubt it.  The penalties are pretty harsh here in Colorado for any store that sells it to someone under age or anyone who buys it and resells or gives it to someone underage.

                  Undercover agents patronize the liquor stores, and the stores all know it.

        •  Hate to be crass. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          skohayes, nota bene, tb mare

          But just because it affected you negatively doesn't mean it has the same effect on others.

          If they want to move some of the tax receipts to substance abuse programs, though, I'd be OK with that.

          "Michael Moore, who was filming a movie about corporate welfare called 'Capitalism: A Love Story,' sought and received incentives."

          by Bush Bites on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 05:26:00 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Hey BB (0+ / 0-)

            See above about the 14 year olds. I was lucky. Recreational drugs produce dependency and that's bad. Maybe not for you, but for lots of us and it doesn't start when you're an adult, usually, it starts when you're a dumb kid. Not good.

            Decriminalization is fine, but legalization is never good. Our one legal recreational drug kills way too many. Why add another?

            Victory is sweet-November 6, 2012

            by al23 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 05:45:56 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I smoked pot when I was a kid. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              tb mare

              Haven't smoked since shortly after college.

              And, frankly, I wouldn't mind doing it once in awhile again, but I'm not going to get arrested for it.

              The vast majority of recreational drug (or alcohol) users don't become addicted.

              Why should the laws be written for what happens to the minority of users?

              "Michael Moore, who was filming a movie about corporate welfare called 'Capitalism: A Love Story,' sought and received incentives."

              by Bush Bites on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 05:52:10 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  that isn't crass, it's common sense n/t (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            tb mare

            Views Differ On Shape Of Planet

            by nota bene on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 06:03:14 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  Alcohol is not pot (0+ / 0-)

          Pot is safer, less addictive and less harmful to the body.
          I've been sober for 21 years (congratulations, by the way!) and have smoked in the intervening years with no problem whatsoever.
          Legalization would make it easier to keep the drug out of the hands of children, for that matter (drug dealers don't ask for ID).

          “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

          by skohayes on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 06:07:52 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  congrats to you too. (0+ / 0-)

            Not making an argument about relative  safety. I just think all recreational drugs are harmful when not used with extreme moderation. I don't think many kids know anything about moderation.

            Victory is sweet-November 6, 2012

            by al23 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 06:45:57 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  Furthermore: Americans are demanding Gun Control (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        nota bene, tb mare

        improvements AND  legalization of marijuana.

        Republicans stand against all of that with a thick foam in their mouths.

        Totally and completely connected.

        The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

        by xxdr zombiexx on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 05:21:40 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Pot and tax revenues were clearly linked (0+ / 0-)

        here in Colorado on the November ballot.  The idea was that you brought trade in pot out of the shadows and regulated and taxed the production and the sale of it.

        Even though the measure won at the state level, local municipalities are busy outlawing it.

  •  I live with the nuts (5+ / 0-)

    The Texas crazy got a little worse this week.

    Gov. Rick Perry recommended prayer rather than changes in gun laws to combat violence in society, following President Obama’s call for increased gun control and enforcement.
    Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott has a message for New Yorkers who don’t like their state’s new gun-control measures. Move to Texas.

    On Wednesday, New Yorkers in Manhattan and Albany began seeing two web ads, paid for with Abbott campaign funds, and designed to tug on their holster strings. According to The Austin American-Statesman, the text of one ad reads: “Is Gov. Cuomo looking to take your guns? Sick of the media outing law abiding gun owners? Are you a lawful NY gun owner seeking lower taxes?” The second ad reads: “Wanted: Law abiding New York gun owners looking for lower taxes and greater opportunity.”

    U.S. Rep. Steve Stockman, R-Friendswood, said in a statement today that he would “thwart” any executive action by Obama “by any means necessary including but not limited to eliminating funding for implementation, defunding the White House and even filing articles of impeachment.”

    Be the change you want to see in the world. -Gandhi

    by DRo on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 05:10:50 AM PST

  •  But if the Jews had guns, if the slaves had guns, (3+ / 0-)

    if the Native Americans had  guns. Oh wait, the Native Americans did have guns. But if the secessionist South had guns, oh they did too. Who else had guns? Pretty much every loser in every confrontation since guns were invented. Another stupid argument that falls apart if one gives it any thought.  

    We're fools whether we dance or not, so we might as well dance.

    by PowWowPollock on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 05:11:45 AM PST

  •  Anytime I see a picture of NRA members I see the (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Bush Bites, ratcityreprobate

    same crazy old white people who have called themselves the tea bag party or whatever the hell it is they call themselves.  That is, the NRA is just another name for the same old crazy right wing republican base.

  •  That column from the law student (0+ / 0-)

    at The Week starts out okay, but then devolves into republican silliness- I think I've read similar suggestions from "moderates" at least two or three times every week since the discussion on the debt ceiling started (again).
    Here, specifically:

    If we remain patient, the president will face four unenviable political options not long after the debt ceiling debate: (1) Do nothing about spending and get hammered during the midterms; (2) Advocate for dramatic decreases in spending; (3) Advocate for dramatic decreases in Medicare; or (4) Try to tax corporations. If he has the guts to go after Medicare — he will not — Republicans should join him in his crusade because while seniors will go crazy, they will blame both parties and for the first time in generations, our leaders would actually be addressing the primary threat to our nation's future. Alternatively, the president can try to slash defense spending (this is a losing argument since we live in a dangerous new world and blindly cutting the funding for our nation's security would mean, among other things, shuttering forward operating bases that permit the United States to project power globally while also compromising our ability to protect ourselves in the future). Finally, and most likely the President can go after corporations. This too is a loser, since doing so would lead to immediate layoffs, dramatic reductions in employee benefits, and yet another retraction of the American economy.
    Has anyone suggested "blindly" cutting defense spending?
    And going after corporations would lead to "immediate" layoffs and "dramatic" reductions to benefits?

    “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

    by skohayes on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 05:46:36 AM PST

  •  inre: the AP poll about 9/11 vs Sandy Hook (0+ / 0-)

    I can't be the only one who takes that at face value.

    Views Differ On Shape Of Planet

    by nota bene on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 05:56:17 AM PST

  •  Well, here's good news (0+ / 0-)

    Seems the Republican War on Women has backfired a bit:

    Last year woke plenty of people up: as Republican politicians and their backers seriously debated whether or not contraception should be legal, and whether women could even get pregnant from “legitimate rape,” the numbers saying that abortion should be generally avialable went up and up, up to 42 percent by September 2012. And those numbers had jumped over the summer, folks. By November 2012, Rasmussen reported that 54 percent—more Americans than ever--called themselves “pro-choice.” After a year of Team Rape and mandatory transvaginal ultrasounds, allowing women to choose what to do with their bodies for themselves had become the conservative position. As Katie Baker at Jezebel put it,
    As it turns out, when people are forced to think a little harder about the meaning of "pro-life" — thanks to politicians like Akin and Richard "God luvs rape!" Mourdock, among many, many others — most don't actually identify with the pro-life platform. How odd!
    https://prospect.org/...

    “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

    by skohayes on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 06:27:14 AM PST

  •  As to the question in Ron Fournier's piece (0+ / 0-)

    ...any organization that has POS Ted Nugent on its board is angling for the crazy crown.

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