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A short post after observing GOP supporter responses to Obama's gun control proposal. Evidently a gun ban on criminals and people with mental disabilities is an outrage.

I have seen many comments about Obama’s gun control proposal throughout the social media spectrum—most of which appear as recycled fear mongering pundit talk about loss of liberty.  

I, being a pro-gun Democrat, had to investigate whether or not the tweets and posts that I was reading were valid. As usual, I found that most of the comments, concerning liberties being stripped of our society, were either from wild imaginations or misinformed folks.

I read the full gun control proposal from the Obama administration and nowhere did I see any suggestion that Obama is destroying our liberty under the second amendment. The only liberty that is being revoked is the liberty of criminals and people with mental disabilities that are inclined toward violence.

Unless you are in need of military grade firepower, you are a criminal bent on robbing a string of convenience stores, or you think that your parents are werewolves who might eat you during the next full moon unless you get to them first with 60 rounds of silver bullets … I think it is safe to say that your gun rights are still intact.

To review Obama’s proposal click here.

Thanks for reading!
John Debar, a conscious observer

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Comment Preferences

  •  How about liberty of illicit drug users who now (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Joieau

    will be background checked and ostensibly prevented from owning firearms?

    "If the past sits in judgment on the present, the future will be lost." Winston Churchill

    by Kvetchnrelease on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 06:50:38 AM PST

  •  What is wrong with this .... (5+ / 0-)

    A repug will fight FOR a criminals right to own a weapon

    A repug will fight AGAINST a criminal to vote

    WTF?!

    Never underestimate stupid. Stupid is how reTHUGlicans win!

    by Mannie on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 06:53:43 AM PST

  •  I read Feinstein's as well... (0+ / 0-)

    heres the link: http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/...

    nothing too terrible

    me 1:57 am
        you'll get to keep your gun it seems

    mr. gazer 2:10 am
        But will have to get background check again
        Register

    mr. gazer 2:17 am
        What happened to innocent until proven guilty

    this same guy is for universal healthcare, strong public education... things like that.

    Why hello there reality, how are you doing?

    by Future Gazer on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 07:16:39 AM PST

    •  Um... I saw nothing (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SuWho, ConsciousObserver

      in Obama's EOs and urgings to Congress on new laws that would require any current law-abiding gun owner to submit to background check or register their weapons. Are those in the WaPo overview?

      ...and speaking of background checks, I am in the process of changing my name to my name. Because the Patriot Act of 2006 requires that all forms of ID match one's Social Security card, which is not a legal form of ID. I have a nickname I've been going by since I was born, which is on my SS card and school records from kindergarten, but not on my birth certificate. $500 so far, and it ain't done yet (grumble, grumble). Can't get a state ID, passport, bank account, or start drawing SS (which I could do this June if I had a legal bank account, which I won't have until I get the name change).

      Last I heard from the lawyer, I had to pass an FBI background check in order to change my name to my name. I can't imagine the FBI would have any reservations, but I did file an FOIA back in the mid-90s to see if they had a file on me - that was something fun for old hippies to do back then. They said no. Of course, since I asked, I probably do now...

      Living in Amerika is fraught with catch-22s, it seems.

      •  No that is just what Feinstein is rooting for (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Joieau

        in terms of legislation.

        With respect to told AWB that has been expired, it is quite a bit stricter.

        oh wow I would have thought for your SS card your parents would have made it consistent with your birth certificate.

        Why hello there reality, how are you doing?

        by Future Gazer on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 09:13:08 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Back in my day (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          SuWho

          we got our own SS cards when we got to be teenagers so we could get after-school jobs. They were NOT issued at birth. I obtained mine using school records as ID as well as driver's license which I also got using school records as ID. I was born in another country (Navy brat), and while it says right there in black and white that my parents - and I - are citizens of the U.S. (even have affidavits attached from the State Department and the commander of Naval Forces Pacific that I'm a citizen), your average junior flunky in any single state government office is in my long experience way too dumb to deal with slight complications or anything that requires common sense and actual knowledge of law to resolve. School records were easier, it never mattered because you could pretty much use any name you wanted so long as you could ostensibly demonstrate they were recognized by somebody to be yours. If asked, which was hardly ever. Why, since my Dad died in 1994 sans son, I started using my maiden name as middle name/initial. Nobody cared (nor should they have cared, THAT name's on my birth certificate too).

          It's only been since 2006 that everything has to match SS card exactly. SS never cared what name got attached - that's why it's never been an official form of ID - the number was all they needed to collect taxes. When I got married in 1969 they changed my last name without fuss or bother or even having to see my marriage license.

          •  Okay, okay. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Joieau

            I see where you're coming from now.

            I was born in 1989 and my parents made it a point to keep anything government related consistent with my birth certificate... regardless of what others called me.

            I do have another name that is on my Taiwanese passport but that is for strictly dealing with the Taiwanese government.

            I hope things work out for you, even if it frustrates you.

            Why hello there reality, how are you doing?

            by Future Gazer on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 10:34:46 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Frustration I can deal with. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Future Gazer

              It's cost $500 so far, and I get the feeling it'll end up costing more before it's over. We're not the kind of folks who have that much laying around, it's taken awhile to save up. Most people can just go talk to the Clerk of Court and pay for the filing, it's automatic. I've got to have a lawyer who knows the fine points of citizenship (luckily, our lawyer is sort of a specialist on that). DHS apparently has gub'ment flunkies so scared of shadows that they turn pale as a ghost when they see that foreign birth certificate. No one believes they have the power anymore to use their heads - take my other forms of ID and see the name I wish to use is a name I already own. Children born to American parents overseas are American citizens. It was that way when John McCain was born in Panama, and when I was born in Olongopo. It is still that way right now. Part of my documentation is a registered geneology (with my birth name) that traces Dad's people to the Mayflower, and Mom's people shared a grandfather with George Washington (four of the brothers were at Valley Forge)!

              Positively weird - and I've been dealing with this for years.

              I think they ought to have to pay for it all. It's their dumb law, nobody else ever really cared. It'll work out in the end, I'm sure. Because it's all so incredibly dumb.

            •  By the way... (0+ / 0-)

              Aw. I've got not one but two grandsons who were born in 1990. Both live with us while going to college. So yeah, things in this country have not been as paranoid as you have grown into. I think that's a shame.

              •  The paranoia is from the shock (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Joieau, ConsciousObserver

                of the tragedies that occur. Sometimes, I think people become irrationally fearful and then act upon their irrational fears.

                Why hello there reality, how are you doing?

                by Future Gazer on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 11:53:19 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  It's not irrational (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Future Gazer, ConsciousObserver

                  to fear that crazies with assault weapons might shoot you and your family down wherever you happen to be in a public place. That is domestic terrorism, even if the 'terrorist' is merely crazy and has no particular reason to assassinate a room full of 6-year olds. That's... utterly unfathomable to me.

                  I don't mind one bit if they tighten the regulatory screws and ban assault weapons, extended clips, particular calibers of ammo, whatever they have to do that more than half the country agrees with. Lord knows there's crazies with guns out there, and something must be done.

                  The black market in guns, in this and other countries of impact, is what it is. Criminals will likely always have access to guns. It's the one-off stochastic terroristic acts we're really afraid of. And I see no reason after Newtown that we shouldn't be afraid.

                  I am a gun owner.

                  •  Sorry for the semantics (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Joieau, ConsciousObserver

                    I said sometimes. I was thinking about my latest forfeit to customs and borders at the airport... meatless, fruitless, seedless, vegetableless rice crackers.

                    But the context is guns so perhaps I should have said something different.

                    I kind of don't want to because I feel so wishy washy about those things. If I know you and trust you with your weapons, I wouldn't have any problem letting you keep them.

                    For those gang members that shot up the Valley Plaza mall in Bakersfield while I was there... I'd hang them.

                    Why hello there reality, how are you doing?

                    by Future Gazer on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 12:52:20 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Well, the situation comedy (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Future Gazer, ConsciousObserver

                      that is our current mass transit system (primarily air) is definitely all the way to absurd. As for gun control, you'd never meet my shotgun unless you were here on my property during one of our bottomland target-shooting expeditions. Happen only occasionally in the 20 years I've lived here. So long as you aren't a rabid coon or skunk, or a starving abandoned hunting hound or coyote desperate to eat my pets, livestock and/or grandchildren, a mortally wounded game animal that 'escaped' from the hunting lands next door that needs putting down immediately, or a drunken armed-to-the-teeth wannabe hunter who can't read Posted signs, you'd never meet the business end. §;o)

                      I live as far out in the boonies as it is legal for humans to live in this country. I do that on purpose, and don't mind the uncommon issues that come with. I'm not a whacko gun-nut stockpiling against black helicopters and such, and I don't truck with those who are. Newtown brings home the need for us to re-examine our gun laws in light of genuine whackos out there, and do something meaningful to protect innocents. I'm all for it. Nothing they do will affect my ability to protect my home and property, but it might well make my grandchildren safer at school and in town.

                      •  Yup. I won't begrudge a person (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Joieau

                        who uses his or her arms (organic or otherwise) responsibly. There's another user here who needs hers to defend her livestock. No problems with that. I don't think you'll find many people who would prevent you from being able to defend your home and property.

                        Well.. and then the bullied kid from Taft high school brings a shot gun to school and shoots somebody. "Oh great, now it's gonna be shot guns" says the crazy folk.

                        Kern County has a fair amount of gun violence in it.... I think we just 'deal with it.' The schools (that I went to) here are designed and built with very controlled access in mind. There are extra locked gates that teachers can undo in case of emergency but unless the children are going to/from school, EVERY gate is locked and you have to go to the front office. This happened after columbine and given the amount of gang violence to begin with, this was the best they could do short of hiring armed guards. It wouldn't prevent a kid from bringing daddy's pistol to school and shooting the classmates but it would do a good job at keeping people who don't belong there out. I'm not saying this is the best way to do things, but there's an achievable, practical and logistically feasible way of doing something and then there is the "just surrender your guns you gun freak" reaction.

                        It is a very, very conservative county. They dole out a lot of concealed carry permits more than the rest of the state of CA combined.

                        An interesting thought was that if the owner of the grandfathered-in (assume Sen. Feinstein's goals come into effect) gun died that the government be able to collect it... unless it is permanently disabled and stays that way. It's a little slow but I think that's the most reasonable way of dealing with the large quantity of battlefield type rifles in the country.

                        Why hello there reality, how are you doing?

                        by Future Gazer on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 03:27:47 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Just so you know... (0+ / 0-)

                          my shotgun - actually belongs to the spousal unit, strictly speaking - is 'grandfathered'. Because it really is Grandpa's shotgun [duly inherited]. Grandpa was sheriff of a one-horse town in southern Oklahoma after the turn of the last century. The horse belonged to him too.

                          But we've had other guns over the years, including an M-1 carbine we got back in 1968 or 69. We got 30-round clips for that military-looking gun at the Army-Navy Surplus, Anywhere USA. I've got nothing against guns in general, or people who own guns. I'm just seeing that in the highly populated areas of our country, there needs to be some more serious regulation of who gets to have/wield [keep and bear] them, and what kinds of guns/ammo that can be legally held.

                          I believe it needs tighter regulation. And a great deal of public attention/awareness.

  •  Give them enough rope (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    luckylizard, Joieau

    and they will hang themselves, the saying goes.

    I sort of think that this is the case with the gun lobby.

    In the wake of the expiration of the AWB the gun industry could have taken a different tack and pushed a difft sort of gun.

    But instead they doubled down on the end times porn, zombie killer type of guns and marketed them.

    Now because there are so many of them in circulation they are falling into the wrong peoples hands and causing a serious public backlash.

  •  GOP only cares to strip them of right to vote... (5+ / 0-)

    Thing is in GOP's mind, the votes of criminals and mentally disabled go to Democrats, while their money spent on guns goes to gun manufacturers, hence the GOP has to stop the former and encourage the latter!

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