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chart of 5 polls post newtown on stricter gun laws
Data compiled from pollingreport.com

The Hill:

But a new political reality dawned after the Newtown shooting.

The president was bluntly asked in a White House news conference: “Where’ve you been?” on gun control. He responded curtly that the shooting had been a “wake-up call.”

And before any Inaugural balls, the president appeared at the White House with schoolchildren who implored him to do something about gun violence.

Gallup:  
Americans' immediate reaction to President Barack Obama's proposals for new laws designed to reduce gun violence is more positive than negative, with 53% saying they would want their representative in Congress to vote for the set of proposed new laws, while 41% say their representative should vote against them.
The only sub-groups that oppose it are conservatives and Republicans. Duh. Hugely popular in the East (68-30), marginally popular out West (47-45). Midwest (50-42) and South (49-44) okay with it.

Jonathan Chait on David Brooks:

Moderate Republicanism is a tendency that increasingly defies ideological analysis and instead requires psychological analysis. The psychological mechanism is fairly obvious. The radicalization of the GOP has placed unbearable strain on those few moderates torn between their positions and their attachment to party. Many moderate conservatives have simply broken off from the party, at least in its current incarnation, and are hoping or working to build a sane alternative. Those who remain must escape into progressively more baroque fantasies.
Leonard Pitts Jr:
Does torture work? Beg pardon, but we have been asking the wrong question. What matters is not whether torture works. What matters is whether torture is right.

Consider: Mothers Against Drunk Driving reports that drunk drivers kill almost 10,000 people a year. That's three Sept. 11's and then some. But if you wanted to stop that carnage, it would be simple. Just make drunk driving a capital crime with instant punishment. The evidence – blood alcohol levels – allows for scientific certainty of guilt, so there'd be no need of a long trial. We could execute the miscreants within a day.

Drunk driving would disappear. The new policy would solve the problem. It would work.

And if that were truly the ultimate rubric by which we decided a question, there could be no argument against it. But we won't make drunk driving a capital crime for one simple reason.

It would be wrong. In fact, it would be repellent to our values, inconsonant with the kind of people we consider ourselves to be.

Sharon Grigsby/Dallas Morning News:
Even before the Te’o story broke, some were already saying “enough already” about Armstrong. I particularly liked this one from Washington Post writer Melinda Henneberger, which we published on Viewpoints today. Perhaps I’ve just seen one too many replays of Armstrong’s steadfast (and at times angry, in-your-face) denials, which have looped endlessly this week on the news channels.  As this former fan, who believed those denials for far too long, I think Armstrong is getting his just deserts for his years of cheating and bullying: growing indifference.
PCMag.com:
Opponents of the new NRA shooting app for iOS are calling on Apple to pull it from the App Store because its release is insensitive so soon after the Newtown shooting.

"The National Rifle Association's new app 'NRA: Practice Range' is an insult to the victims of gun violence, having been launched on the one month anniversary of the Sandy Hook shooting," according to the petition posted on Signon.org. "Out of respect for the victims and to signal Apple's support for common sense measures to help end gun violence, we call on you to rescind your approval of this shameless new product."

Fox News leads with "America loves guns" and "nothing will change", but here's what their own poll actually shows:
On Wednesday President Obama announced several gun-control proposals.  Among them: requiring background checks for all gun buyers and banning military-style assault weapons and high-capacity magazines.  

The poll asked about these as well as other possible ways to reduce gun violence.  (A portion of the interviews were conducted before Obama’s formal announcement.)

The most popular suggestions are requiring criminal background checks on all gun buyers (with 91 percent favoring this proposal), providing services for mentally ill people who “show violent tendencies” (89 percent) and improving enforcement of existing laws (86 percent)

Large majorities also favor mandating mental-health checks on gun buyers (83 percent) and requiring criminal background checks on anyone buying ammunition (80 percent).  
Smaller majorities favor putting armed guards in schools (60 percent), banning high-capacity clips (56 percent), banning assault weapons (54 percent), and reducing “access to violent movies and video games” (52 percent).

The least popular suggestion tested -- and the only one a majority opposes -- is allowing teachers and school officials to carry guns on school grounds (42 percent favor, 52 percent oppose).

LA Times:
As flu cases increase, hospital administrators are grappling with whether to compel doctors, nurses and other medical staff to get vaccinated. Each year, only about 60% of hospital workers get the shot, according to a report by the California Department of Public Health. The federal government has set a goal of 90% by 2020.
In general, medical societies and hospital associations support mandatory vaccine, nursing unions support the shot and recommend it but oppose the mandate. People don't like mandates. But mandates are what makes things work. Then again, so does honoring collective bargaining and working it out via negotiation. On the third hand, as my friend David Waldman is apt to note, freedom, liberty and Hitler (and no, it's not rational, so don't try and make sense of it. Then again, opposition to flu shots isn't rational, either.)

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Comment Preferences

  •  The country is changing. Maybe, just maybe (13+ / 0-)

    we're growing up a little bit.  About time.

    When banjos are outlawed, only outlaws will have banjos.

    by Bisbonian on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 04:35:56 AM PST

  •  My family is done shopping at Whole Foods (17+ / 0-)

    Why are so many companies in this country run by half-witted sociopaths?

    Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore

    by Minerva on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 04:48:38 AM PST

    •  Because narrowly-focused sociopaths... (9+ / 0-)

      ...have the ideal "skill set" for minimizing the impact of any corporate decision on real life and maximizing current profit and (more importantly) weaving a tale of ever growing future profitability for the Financial Elites.

      When you are right you cannot be too radical; when you are wrong, you cannot be too conservative. --Martin Luther King Jr.

      by Egalitare on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 04:55:42 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I just read a very interesting interview (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        commonmass, entlord, DRo

        from Mother Jones with Mackie- he calls himself a  "liberal Libertarian", but he does have some liberal views:

        I reject the premise that liberal and libertarian values are necessarily in conflict. In fact, I often self-identify as a "classical liberal." I am pro-choice, favor legalizing gay marriages, protecting our environment, enforcing strict animal welfare protection laws (I've been an ethical vegan for 10 years), marijuana legalization, having a welfare safety net for our poorest or disabled citizens, and a radically reduced defense budget and military presence around the world. However, I'm also a conscious capitalist—I believe economic freedom and entrepreneurship are the best ways to end poverty, increase prosperity, and evolve humanity upward. I believe that all forms of socialism have been proven over time to result in a loss of both economic and civil liberties, with increasing poverty. The truth is that I don't fit into a simple ideological box. I read widely on issues, try to think carefully about them, and then I make up my own mind.
        But he's also a bit of that RWNJ Libertarian:
        The deficit problems can be completely explained by too much governmental spending. Spending at all levels has significantly increased in the past 12 years under both presidents, Bush and Obama. We could bring the annual federal budget into the black within just 10 years by simply limiting increases in spending to 2 percent per year. No additional taxes are required and I believe taxes are already too high in the United States. For example, our corporate income taxes are already the highest in the world.
        http://www.motherjones.com/...

        Not sure what to think!

        “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

        by skohayes on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 05:41:35 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I know what to think. (11+ / 0-)

          Mackie is obviously pragmatic about social issues, but does not understand economic issues.  When he remarks that spending at all levels has increased significantly under both Bush and Obama, he doesn't stop to ask "spending on what" and "why"?  There is a huge difference between spending on necessities (keeping unemployed and underpaid people from suffering) and spending on wants (waging wars) and desires (further enriching the already rich).

          Most Libertarians want smaller government and fewer regulations on businesses regardless of what government is tasked to do.  President Obama has reduced the size of government, unlike President Bush who massively increased the size and reach of government.  The number of government employees has fallen dramatically under the current president; under the previous president the number of government employees increased dramatically.  President Bush significantly reduced regulation on businesses, which turned out to be a threat to health, safety and the environment not to mention what it did to the world economy.

          Furthermore the "deficit problems" can not be "completely explained by too much government spending."  If there are deficit problems - which is questionable - they are more a result of unemployment and underemployment than too much spending.

          Mackie needs to spend more time studying up on macroeconomics and less on rationalizing his current economic ideology.

          "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

          by SueDe on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 06:37:33 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  His view on Socialism (10+ / 0-)

          is weird.

          all forms of socialism have been proven over time to result in a loss of both economic and civil liberties, with increasing poverty.
          Exactly what does he mean by "all forms"? Certainly the socialism Marx would've like to see has never been tried. After the countries that had socialist revolutions, either the revolutionaries took power "until the working class was educated enough to run things" (and then they never ceded power, of course), or allied capitalist countries hit them with embargoes, sanctions, isolation, etc. in order to stifle any success that economy might have . . . or both. Or we just go assassinate the leaders and overthrow the fledgling governments (Iran, Chile, Grenada, Nicaragua, etc.). So we really haven't seen "all forms of socialism" really given a opportunity.

          And the Democratic Socialism of Europe, though economically based in Capitalism, has done more for their citizens than our country's safety net has.

          •  I don't know how to parse his quote that.. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            snazzzybird, David54, MillieNeon
            climate change is perfectly natural and not necessarily bad
            ..other than the guy is a complete idiot, or a sociopath.

            Or both.

            The Aggressively Ignorant Caucus is getting aggressively ignorant again.

            by Anthony Page aka SecondComing on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 07:22:37 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  It's not really a battle for or against (3+ / 0-)

            "socialism" (in the old definition).
            The definitions need to be brought up to date to reflect the new reality.

            The vast majority of progressives today are fighting for a sustainable form of capitalism that won't eat itself.

            Wall Street has become a massive tumor on the American economy.
            The tax that is represented by oil company extortion is greater than any gov. tax. and it's extremely regressive.

            Corporate welfare dwarfs all the entitlements and welfare.

            Etc.

            This guy just is not "reality-based".

            You can't make this stuff up.

            by David54 on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 08:05:19 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Is there a sustainable form (0+ / 0-)

              of Capitalism? I'm interested in Steady State Economics. The problem with Capitalism is the need for constant growth but's Capitalism's well-being above the well-being of the citizens. There could be a steady economic system not based on the vampirish constant bottom line growth that would be more helpful for citizens growth emotionally, mentally, and community growth.

              •  I'm always making that mistake. (0+ / 0-)

                I'm not an economist. I'm just a working stiff observer.
                What I'm getting at is the fact that what we will end up doing after we've done a lot of damage following after various ideologies is have a hybrid system (like a hybrid car) that will have the right calibration of "free enterprise" and personal risk and profit, government directed investment in infrastructure, research and development, and a social safety net.
                I think there's a level of capitalism there, but it has to be regulated. The people on the top can't rig the system so that they receive massive government welfare in addition to their "profits".
                It will also have a healthy measure of hard work. I love hard work. It's fun. It feels good. What doesn't feel good is working hard for...nuthin'.

                What is important is to restore the middle class, which has been under assault by the super wealthy, to the point of destroying the whole system.

                You can't make this stuff up.

                by David54 on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 07:53:25 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

        •  At the very least he's woefully misinformed. (0+ / 0-)

          You can't make this stuff up.

          by David54 on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 07:58:53 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  I notice Wendy's seems to have jumped (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      commonmass, JML9999

      the rails temporarily.  A worker was fired for striking
      http://www.nydailynews.com/...
      Now I have to wonder what Dave would have said?

    •  We just got Whole Foods (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lineatus, DRo, JML9999, commonmass

      No longer planning on checking it out - ironically, it's across the street from the new Chick-fil-a (the t is silent).

      I'm pretty tired of being told what I care about.

      by hulibow on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 05:12:05 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  But you must TELL THEM SO (6+ / 0-)

      Just not showing up won't mean much. There might be a small dent in sales, but January is diet month and face your Christmas bills month, and my bet is that their over-priced spice sales go down anyway.

    •  Because who else but sociopaths (0+ / 0-)

      have the energy and the drive to screw over their fellow citizens so utterly consistently? The rest of us feel good having a beer with good friends, getting a massage, or taking in a movie. Sociopaths only feel good when their pushing in the knife, either metaphorically or literally.

  •  Pediatricians rock. (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    commonmass, hulibow, Weezerr1, JML9999, thomask

    Great round-up, Greg. As usual. Have a relaxing long weekend.

    My lady binder is killing me.

    by surfermom on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 04:50:18 AM PST

  •  Brooks not thrilled with Obama 2.0. (6+ / 0-)
    •  country not thrilled with Brooks 17.0 n/t (21+ / 0-)

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 05:11:50 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  "David Brooks Now Totally Pathological" (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        snazzzybird, glitterscale

        is the proper title for the piece.

        Moderate Republicanism... requires psychological analysis. ...Moderate conservatives... must escape into progressively more baroque fantasies.
        The John Birch Society wing of the GOP got itself retagged as a "tea party" in 2009. That camouflage allowed it to take another 38 seats from Business Republicans in the 2010 elections.

        Birchers now hold 150 seats in the House, versus 84 seats to the Business GOPers.

        The prevalent expression of (Bizzie GOPer) psychological pain is the belief that President Obama is largely or entirely responsible for Republican extremism. It’s a bizarre but understandable way to reconcile conflicting emotions.... In this case, moderate Republicans believe that Obama’s tactic of taking sensible positions that moderate Republicans agree with is cruel and unfair, because it exposes the extremism that dominates the party, not to mention the powerlessness of the moderates within it.
        The 800-pound gorilla in GOPer politics is that the goddamn Birch Society and the billionaires who finance their wack-job projects now have enough of their candidates elected/in office to dominate the Republican Party.

        Birchers started rolling up Bizzie congressional seats in 1984. This went on steadily for Safe seats through 2004. Then they made their latest giant step in 2010.

        You see Bircher Madness spew from the mouths of congressional Birchers every week. Here's a sample of Bircher Madness topics off today's jbs.org web site:

        -- Government Attitude Towards Elderly Leads to Euthanasia
        -- Oppose Ratification of the UN Treaty on Disability Rights
        -- Voter Fraud
        -- Signs of a Declining Economy
        -- Russia Rising
        -- Communism Isn't Dead  
        -- Nobel Prize Goes to EU. Communist President of EU Commission Thankful.
        -- Arab Unrest and Voter Fraud (in America somehow)
        -- Ron Paul Drummed Out of Republican Party
        -- Questions about the Aurora Colorado Movie Shooting
        -- Attack on Christianity and Restore Religious Freedom in America
        -- United Nations Ordering U.S. Troops to War
        -- Long-term Goal of a United Nations Standing Army Behind the Syria Solution
        That's normal stuff in the House. The Birch Society 2013 also considers "Corruption of the Republican Party" to be helping to govern the country along with democrats. I.e., normal politics.

        Helluva 800-pound gorilla. The most of them gorillas don't have billionaires paying their bills! This one got sugar daddies by the dozen.

        "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012 "Have you left no sense of decency, sir, at long last?" Army/McCarthy 1954

        by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 06:43:12 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  The Babbling Brooks Home for the (7+ / 0-)

      Criminally insane Gambler Pundit

      Harumph!

      I want 1 less Tiny Coffin, Why Don't You? Support The President's Gun Violence Plan.

      by JML9999 on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 05:16:20 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Quelle surprise! (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JML9999, skohayes, commonmass, mmacdDE
    •  Ron Fournier (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      commonmass, JML9999, tb mare, snazzzybird

      has been writing about the "chip" on Obama's shoulder, and then he wrote this yesterday:
      Obama's Inaugural: With Malice or None?

      It would be natural for Barack Obama to begin his second term with a chip on his shoulder, emboldened by a reelection victory that, viewed through his eyes, ratified his agenda and punished his rivals for extremism. It also would be a mistake.
      Starting with his inaugural address on Monday, the president might want to consider the example of another former Illinois lawmaker who rose from obscurity to assume the presidency at a time of peril. Like President Obama, Abraham Lincoln had to triangulate between harsh obstructionists from an opposing party and radicals from within his own. Lincoln won reelection and faced the heady task of Reconstruction.
      While Lincoln’s times and tests were more challenging than those of today, his second inaugural address is a model for its modesty. Lincoln’s overall tone was humble, wrote historian Evan Thomas for The Daily Beast, “that of a man who has learned from harsh experience.
      Obama is not going to come out swinging at Congress in his inaugural address, or at Republicans. Anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot and hasn't been paying attention these last 4 years.

      “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

      by skohayes on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 05:46:53 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  The way gun owners feel without their AK15s (11+ / 0-)

    is exactly the way I feel when they have them.

    There was no outcry from the gun know-it-alls against James Yaeger's stunningly ignorant youtube threatening to murder people.

    There was no outcry from the gun know-it-alls against Turd Nuggets' stunningly ignorant obscene gun performances.

    There was no outcry from the gun know-it-alls when stunningly ignorant people with a gun and a badge figure they are the Supreme Court and make decisions on Constitutionality.  I have a badge and a gun, so that's that.

    But wait, these stunningly ignorant gun flingers just want make sure I am safe.

    Sign my White House Petition Enforce the KEEP in the Second Amendment We don't have a problem with gun control, we have a problem with gun owners controlling their guns.

    by 88kathy on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 04:51:09 AM PST

  •  Regarding David Brooks: (10+ / 0-)

    I find Brooks a really sad case. He continues to vacillate between defending ideas that he seems to kindasorta believe in and going through the motions of defending the indefensible.

    He depresses me.

    What is truth? -- Pontius Pilate

    by commonmass on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 04:53:44 AM PST

    •  Brooks and Will and all the other 'moderates' look (4+ / 0-)

      at the GOP and see mass confusion....and a leadership vacuum being filled once again by Hannity, Limbaugh, NRA, etc...you know....the REAL mericians.

      •  we should feel sympathy for all these polite (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        skillet, commonmass, bontemps2012

        civil moderates who find themselves superannuated by the Yahoos in their party.  Or as Don Meredith would serenade all of them "The Party's over.............."

        •  you know, (8+ / 0-)

          there really are polite civil moderates out there (a rare breed, no doubt), but Brooks is not one of them.
          Notice how it's always "compromise" when Democrats agree with Republican views, but "partisan" when Democrats use their majority to steer the agenda?
          What Brooks wrote yesterday just highlighted this bizarre idea that if Obama would just agree to everything the Republicans want, we could all get along!
          Chait does a better job saying that, as always:

          So Brooks’s proposed alternative agenda consists of either empty list-filler or actual policies that Obama has proposed and Republicans have killed. But instead of this happy term of modest accomplishment, Obama is pursuing a nasty, partisan agenda. Step one of this devious ploy is to, as Brooks puts it, “invite a series of confrontations with Republicans over things like the debt ceiling — make them look like wackos willing to endanger the entire global economy.”
          Right – Obama is the one inviting confrontations over the debt ceiling. Never mind that, before 2011, the debt ceiling was just an occasion for routine posturing, and Republicans insisted on turning it into a showdown with real, dangerous stakes. Also never mind that Obama offered to sign the plan — proposed by Mitch McConnell! — to permanently defuse the debt ceiling and let Republicans use it to posture against him rather than actually threatening a global meltdown. And never mind as well that, by refusing to cave in to extortion, Obama seems to actually be defusing the real danger to the world economy.
          This is all Obama’s fault because it makes Republicans “look like whackos willing to endanger the entire global economy.” Brooks displays an almost surreal lack of interest in the underlying reality that Republicans actually are whackos willing to endanger the entire global economy. It is his responsibility to conceal this reality from America.

          “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

          by skohayes on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 05:59:38 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  They're down 150 to 84 in the House. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          commonmass

          The Fat Lady sang in 2010.

          "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012 "Have you left no sense of decency, sir, at long last?" Army/McCarthy 1954

          by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 06:54:59 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  He doesn't seem worth depression to me (3+ / 0-)

      Not that I dis-value your feelings, of course not, but that lowlife should not have so much power over us.  I saw him on teevee last night, the Lehrer News Hour, and despite all the rapid-fire babble he seemed saddened and shaken to me.

      Chait was good, and also properly identified the House Republicans as radicals and extremists.  Despite being a totally sad case of babbling nonsense Brooks is still everywhere, widely published and often a yapping talking head on teevee.  He seems totally shameless in pursuing whatever mental fantasies he peddles, but perhaps one day he will be shamed into making some sense, if not shutting up.

      •  I have often thought that (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        skillet, paradox, tb mare

        Mark Shields is too nice to him on the Newshour. As much as I respect the NewsHour and often watch it, Brooks and Shields are a little too "clubby" for my taste. Except when Shields has a rare moment of actual journalism and calls bullshit on Brooks which usually ends with Brooks doing that "aw, shucks, you got me on that one" look.

        Sometimes I think they should move the set of the NewsHour to a cocktail lounge.

        What is truth? -- Pontius Pilate

        by commonmass on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 05:10:18 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Lil Davey does continue to amuse me (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        commonmass, bontemps2012, snazzzybird

        I believe it was the airport in Ankara where it suddenly hit him in the face that airports reflect the country where they are located, so airports in foreign countries are really foreign airports.  I think he consumed 2 columns with this epiphany.
        Thank the gods he is wealthy because otherwise he would surely starve, like the turkey too dumb to not look up at the rain and so drowning

    •  He's hard to take (5+ / 0-)

      I put Brooks right up there with Peggy Noonan - very serious know-it-alls who are so far removed from the real world that they are often wrong. Peggy "wax poetic" Noonan just has a more dramatic delivery.

      I'm pretty tired of being told what I care about.

      by hulibow on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 05:07:51 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Noonan stepped in it (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        hulibow, commonmass

        She wrote a column the 17th that said Obama had overplayed his hand on the debt ceiling, and then yesterday the Republicans caved on it.
        Oops.

        “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

        by skohayes on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 06:04:00 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Here it is (6+ / 0-)

          Dripping with contempt, completely blind to the behavior of the Republicans:

          This, he said, is what will happen if the debt ceiling is not extended: "Social Security checks and veteran's benefits will be delayed. We might not be able to pay our troops, or honor our contracts with small businesses. Food inspectors, air-traffic controllers, specialists who track down loose nuclear material wouldn't get their paychecks."

          Why talk to Republicans when the stakes are so high? They must be the kind of people who like to see planes crash and bombs go off.

          Two days later, unveiling his gun-control plan at a White House event, it wasn't only Republicans in Congress who lie: "There will be pundits and politicians and special-interest lobbyists publicly warning of a tyrannical all-out assault on liberty, not because that's true but because they want to gin up fear or higher ratings or revenue for themselves. And behind the scenes, they'll do everything they can to block any common-sense reform and make sure nothing changes whatsoever."

          No one has good faith but him. No one is sincere but him. Doesn't this get boring, even to him?

          http://online.wsj.com/...

          “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

          by skohayes on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 06:08:02 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  And she was a whole lot better fxck (0+ / 0-)

        in her prime, 40 years ago.

        "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012 "Have you left no sense of decency, sir, at long last?" Army/McCarthy 1954

        by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 06:56:50 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  awww I like Lil Davy since Al Capp deep sixed (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      commonmass, bontemps2012

      Lil Abner.  Brook's view of the US is very akin to how Capp visualized Appalachia.  The only difference is Brooks has not yet produced a musical

      •  "American Birchin' Opinion !!" (0+ / 0-)

        Ripping off "The Book of Mormon."

        But I'm betting on the Libruls and A.M.E. Zion tribe members for this one.

        "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012 "Have you left no sense of decency, sir, at long last?" Army/McCarthy 1954

        by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 07:03:20 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Michael Steele on a talk show a couple of weeks (6+ / 0-)

    ago...'The President HAS to negotiate over the debt ceiling.....that's where the House rethugs have their leverage.'.......hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

  •  Thanks for the roundup, Greg! (6+ / 0-)

    I really, really hope the tide is turning and  that the American public is at last ready to do something about mass murder by assault weapon.  Did I see that you're going to have an essay on Newtown on Sunday kos?

    Re Lance Armstrong:  I wanted so badly to believe in his innocence.  I thought he was an inspiration.  Now I'm thoroughly disillusioned.

    I suppose that, like John Profumo, Armstrong can redeem himself by doing social work.  I can't see any sport welcoming his participation.

    "Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

    by Diana in NoVa on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 05:03:05 AM PST

  •  RE: vaccinating health workers (5+ / 0-)

    I would also advocate something that should have been mandatory some time ago.  Universal precautions are simply common sense measures to reduce cross contamination. Handwashing is the most simple but the one most ignored.  For example, how many healthworkers wash their hands or re-glove between pts or depend 100% on their gloves to prevent contamination (it is possible to contaminate a new set of gloves in the process of switching gloves)?  I believe most health workers do not wash their hands an adequate number of times.

    Talking to a restaurant consultant, he told me he recommended all food workers wash their hands every 15 minutes and every 30 minutes at a minimum, regardless of what they have been doing.  He also advocated a protocol with timers so entire crews would wash their hands in concert or in sequence using either a team timer or individual timers.

    It has been some time since I have been involved in healthcare but it seems to me I know of no local hospital with protocols as rigid as local restaurants (I am not counting the 4 shelves of protocols hospitals have to pass JCAHO accreditation which no one ever reads)  

    •  they are much better than they used to be (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      commonmass, entlord, HudsonValleyMark

      hand sanitizer is much more widely used than soap and water, but cannisters are outside every room, patients are encouraged to see the doc/nurse wash hands, spot checks are done.

      Still less than it should be, but better than the 19th C practice of washing after (to clean the surgeon) rather than washing before (to protect the patient).

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 05:16:13 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  for example (5+ / 0-)
        Overall compliance improved from 47·6% in 1994, to
        66·2% in December 1997 (p<0·001; figure 1). Although
        compliance achieved through standard handwashing
        remained stable at around 30%, that associated with hand
        disinfection substantially increased from 13·6% to 37·0%
        (p<0·001) between the first and the last survey (figure 1). In
        support of this observation, the annual amount of alcoholbased handrub solution used increased from 3·5 L per 1000
        patient-days in 1993, to 4·1 L in 1994, 6·9 L in 1995, 9·5 L
        in 1996; 10·9 L in 1997, and 15·4 L 1998 (p for linear
        trend, p<0·001). Compared with the first observation
        period, odds ratios for compliance increased progressively
        even after adjustment for factors independently associated
        with non-compliance (table 2).
        http://medlineindustriesinc.com/...

        "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

        by Greg Dworkin on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 05:18:19 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  If a health worrker doesn't want a vaccine, let (0+ / 0-)

      them take a leave-of--absense from work throughout the flue season.  Problem solved!

  •  Not rational? (4+ / 0-)

    Flu vaccines are little more than 50 percent effective, and a small proportion of individuals experience negative side effects. If the vaccine works for you, then great.  I'm tired of this sites lock-step marginalizing of anyone who raises concerns about vaccine issues.

    •  63% effective and more so in younger patients (9+ / 0-)

      a tiny proportion have more than minimal side effects. I'm tired of irrational vaccine concerns that are not based on data. I love rational vaccine concerns based on efficacy, safety, data, and intent to improve... you know, what we call science.

      So by your own admission (which is lowball), works for most, with few side effects.

      Of course, the major, major point you seem to have missed is that the discussion today is about the obligation for health care workers, who are caring for the vulnerable, not about civilians.

      But in any case, what's your objection and concern? Without spelling it out, it's hard to judge your comment fairly.

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 05:26:31 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  denialists are based on the lowest common (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        tb mare

        denominator of understanding.  I have discussed their fears with them in the past and find a rudimentary understanding of biology whereby they understand injecting "live" or "dead" vaccine to trigger an immunity response.  They also understand that this was originally discovered when it was noticed people who had cowpox were immune to smallpox.

        Here is where they jump the rails.  They then assume since you are "injecting the disease" so you get the disease or else the side effects can cause other conditions.  Here is the sticking point.  They understand just enough to thoroughly misunderstand the whole process

      •  Flu vaccine effectiveness questioned (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Greg Dworkin, commonmass, cordgrass

          The flu vaccine seems safe enough for widespread use but I do have doubts about it's effectiveness. This article  in the NY Times discusses some studies which conclude that the vaccine doesn't really work well in general. I don't think the science on this is settled. However, just in case, I did get my flu shot.

        •  very legit concerns but in the sense (4+ / 0-)

          of it needing to be better, esp. in the elderly.

          Mike Osterholm (from your link) is a friend of mine, and I know his opinion well.

          Important take away:

          He still considers himself a “a pro-vaccine guy,” Dr. Osterholm said.

          “I say, ‘Use this vaccine,’ ” he said. “The safety profile is actually quite good. But we have oversold it. Use it — but just know it’s not going to work nearly as well as everyone says.”

          He's right, and no one should claim shots make you disease proof.

          Then again , and let me emphasize, there's a difference between what patients should do and what hospital workers should do.

          "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

          by Greg Dworkin on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 05:58:58 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I haven't had a flu shot in decades (0+ / 0-)

            However, I'm extremely healthy. I rarely get sick, have no chronic conditions, am on no medications.

            I don't work in healthcare or food service. I don't work in retail.

            If I were older, had a chronic condition, had any respiratory problems, or worked in a field where I was in contact with a huge number of strangers or ill people regularly, I'd probably get a flu shot.

            •  it's an option (0+ / 0-)

              if you opt out fine. That's different than "opposed because I read on line that  [fill in blank]..."

              "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

              by Greg Dworkin on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 03:09:57 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

      •  More of the "paranoid style" comment (0+ / 0-)

        that pops up over and over.

        Every frustration is channeled to a mild expression of paranoia.

        "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012 "Have you left no sense of decency, sir, at long last?" Army/McCarthy 1954

        by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 07:09:07 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  btw, speaking of science and vaccines (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      commonmass, skohayes, entlord, tb mare
      A new Institute of Medicine (IOM) consensus report supports the safety of the recommended immunization schedule for children from birth to age 6 years in the United States, citing evidence to dispel concerns that up to 24 immunizations by 2 years of age represents too many vaccinations too soon.

      "Upon reviewing stakeholder concerns and scientific literature regarding the entire childhood immunization schedule, the IOM committee finds no evidence that the schedule is unsafe," the 14 expert authors write in a brief that accompanied the full report, "Childhood Immunization Schedule and Safety: Stakeholder Concerns, Scientific Evidence, and Future Studies," published online January 16, 2013.

      http://www.medscape.com/...

      Good read.

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 05:28:07 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I am one of those who experienced negative (4+ / 0-)

      side effects.  I used to get the 'flu shot faithfully every year--I had the 'flu a couple of times before that and hated the experience.  In 2007 after I had a reaction to the 'flu shot my doctor forbade me from getting it ever again.  I even asked him last year if I could go ahead and get it, but he advised me not to.

      As for washing hands--yesterday I saw a doctor for the skin problem on my left hand and she advised me to keep my hands OUT of water!  This advice is not going to work for me as I am the family cook who washes my hands several times before, during, and after food preparation.  I also wash them during the day for the usual reason.  At the gym I use hand sanitizer and wipe the handles of the equipment with a sanitizing wipe before I use it.

      I'll just have to hope I don't get it.  The people closest to me have been vaccinated.  For all I know, I may have been exposed yesterday at the doctor's office.  I was surrounded by coughing, sneezing people.

      "Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

      by Diana in NoVa on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 05:30:49 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  and let's be clear... (5+ / 0-)

      much (but not all, to be fair) of the vaccine "concerns" are like the birther "concerns"... no matter how much data you present to contradict, it doesn't go away.

      I don't see all the diaries saying "oh yeah, you're right, there is no link between vaccines and autism, it's been disproven,  sorry about that" written by concerned authors.

      That's not to say there aren't legit issues (there always are with such a large number of vaccines and people.

      Then again...

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 05:32:51 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I think the concern I have seen regarding (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Greg Dworkin, skohayes

      vaccine issues from those who argue for them has more to do with vaccinating children than adults.

      There is a lot of emotion surrounding questions as to whether or not certain vaccines may cause autism but, from what I can see, not a whole lot of evidence. I don't say this to fight about it, but it's just what I observe.

      I am a big believer in western medicine (though I don't think that the answer to everything is to prescribe a drug). I have never understood how intelligent, progressive adults can embrace long-discredited pseudo-medicine like homeopathy and the theory of auto-intoxication which drives the recent craze for colon cleansing. To me, when I hear "New Age" I hear "Making the Dark Ages Hip".

      What is truth? -- Pontius Pilate

      by commonmass on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 05:33:47 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Decades ago my uncle went to a Mexican (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        commonmass, mmacdDE

        clinic for Laetrile therapy.  He was dying from pancreatic cancer and was scared out of his mind.  I note many parents who oppose vaccination have an overblown sense of risk when it comes to their kids and their kids interacting with the world at large

      •  the non-link with autism is pretty firm (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        commonmass, tb mare

        though it is always unpossible to prove something/anything is safe. You can only show there's no known association with harm. That's been done with autism.

        On rare occasion individuals do get side effects, some serious (consult your own doctor) but that is a different discussion than a population-based or health care worker-based discussion.

        "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

        by Greg Dworkin on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 05:44:14 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  in some populations, mortality is disproportionate (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      commonmass, skohayes, tb mare

      For example, in SNFs, the introduction of flu can lead to the infection spreading like wildfire with widespread mortality among the bedridden in particular since they are already susceptible to URIs

    •  60% effective is far better than 36% (which (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Urban Owl

      happens when only 60% of health care workers get vaccinated). Casting the widest net possible always makes vaccines more effective.

  •  NRA--the Wizards beyind the Curtain (5+ / 0-)

    The NRA is essentially a big myth in several ways:

    First, it is not an organization comprised of members. (It may have been once.) It is top-down, controlled by money and a small group of manipulators. Much of its membership is free or honorary; folks who subscribe to magazines or take a gun safety course and get a free year.

    Second, it has far less influence than it claims. See Rachel Maddow's analysis--less effective in influencing elections than even Rove. (Of course, the people they want to influence are already lean-GOP anyway, so there would never be any way to sort that out.)

    Third, it doesn't represent the membership at all. It's obvious from the idiots that have purported to represent them on television in the past week that they never listen to anyone but themselves.

    There are new groups forming to try to bleed off membership in ways they might notice, for example the "National Responsible Gun Owners Association" on Facebook. It would be great of a few hundred thousand of those "honorary" members sent them mail saying they want their names removed from the NRA roles.

    But the NRA will probably never admit they lost any membership, because the "membership" is just a magic curtain to hide the manipulating money men behind.

    •  originally it was a shooting society (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lineatus, JML9999, commonmass, skohayes

      founded around 1876 (this is from memory so I am probably off a few years on my dates) by former Union officers who were horrified at the poor shooting skills of their conscripts.
      It was around 1972 (?) that there was a revolt in the top leadership and the first round of radicalization.
      Here is the whole story
      http://articles.washingtonpost.com/...

    •  They are a very effective (0+ / 0-)

      lobbying organization, which is what they have always been. Because a few of their preferred candidates didn't win ignores the huge influence they have had in getting laws passed in Congress favorable to gun owners and manufacturers.
      Also, the NRA has been owned and run by gun manufacturers and dealers for years, which is why they've been fear mongering about Obama since the first inauguration, it's making their sponsors rich.

      “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

      by skohayes on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 06:23:23 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  There are mixed variables here (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        skohayes

        They maintain mailing lists of those who lean right, count most of them as members (free or paid) and then cite that membership when threatening a lawmaker.

        But if we tear back the curtain, their influence will wane.

  •  If it's always "too soon" to discuss gun control (7+ / 0-)

    after a mass shooting according to the NRA, then surely they should be able to understand that argument against releasing their app.

    •  it's not too soon (12+ / 0-)

      it's too late.

      Greg Dworkin
      Newtown, CT

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 05:39:34 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  "America loves guns" and "nothing will change" (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lineatus, commonmass, JML9999, skohayes

      Bill Maher said exactly the same thing last night on his show, Real Time.
      Martin Short, a comedian and actor I've never cared for (purely a matter of personal taste on my part), was on the panel, and he had some good things to say in response to Maher's assertion that we in American are all lost.  
      I'm waiting for HBO to post a vid or two, or else I'd quote Short on what he said.
      But I remember coming away thinking that while I might not like Martin Short as a comedian or actor, Martin Short as a person is someone I like a lot.

      "Please don't dominate the rap Jack, if you got nothing new to say." - Robert Hunter

      by WSComn on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 05:49:18 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  With a remarkable conincidence that it's just (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      WSComn, commonmass, lineatus

      enough time for them to do a reach out with their lobbyist.

      http://www.miamiherald.com/...

      NRA: NY's quick gun law passage nixed opposition

        ALBANY, N.Y. -- The National Rifle Association said the secretive negotiations and lightning-fast passage of New York's tough new gun control laws squelched the powerful gun lobby's ability to mount opposition.

      Gov. Andrew Cuomo said he had to engineer quick enactment to prevent a counterproductive buying spree of now-outlawed guns.

      The legislation was negotiated over the weekend, introduced on the first day of the 2013 legislative session and signed into law the next day.

      The NRA, which has thwarted such restrictions nationwide, had members working the phones but didn't have enough time to coordinate a public rally. The gun-rights group and some New York lawmakers say the rushed legislation also undermined public input and meaningful debate.

      I want 1 less Tiny Coffin, Why Don't You? Support The President's Gun Violence Plan.

      by JML9999 on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 05:54:25 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  How's about hacking their "app" ??? (0+ / 0-)

      Swap out the pop up targets.

      Put in totally life-like images of the 20 dead children from Sandy Hook Elementary.

      To Hell with being nice to the NRA. They're murderers by proxy.

      The sick fxcks who pay to get pictures of the bullet-riddled corpses and drink up while they laugh at the victims' relatives.

      There's no redeeming quality to these sick fxcks. Nothing.

      "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012 "Have you left no sense of decency, sir, at long last?" Army/McCarthy 1954

      by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 07:15:59 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  providing services for mentally ill people who (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JML9999, WSComn, commonmass, DRo, skohayes

    “show violent tendencies” (89 percent)

    Oh, the room to run with that one.

    On the positive side, maybe it will get a few homeless people off the streets.

    LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

    by dinotrac on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 05:35:42 AM PST

    •  any discussion is better than (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JML9999, WSComn, commonmass, skohayes, Miggles

      "we can't do anything, it's too complicated".

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 05:45:54 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  The response will be one of two things (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        commonmass

        Either discussion with the hope of sorting things out, or a knee-jerk reaction.
        And a knee-jerk reaction can include anything but clear discussion, even a call to do nothing, for whatever reasons.
        Guess what camp the GOP and the NRA belong too?

        "Please don't dominate the rap Jack, if you got nothing new to say." - Robert Hunter

        by WSComn on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 05:54:47 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Agreed. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Greg Dworkin

        And, so long as rational minds prevail, the worst and most abusive ideas will fall by the wayside.

        My own bias -- given the fact that most shooting homicides are not mass shootings, and that about 97-98% (I can't remember the number and don't have the study at my finger tips) are not carried out with assault-style weapons, I welcome ANY overture into the realm of "Why are people obtaining and using these stupid guns to kill each other?"

        Hell -- maybe a few more people will finally get the idea that national security and personal safety will actually be enhanced if more kids can actually grow up with the bare minimum requirements to prepare them for usefual, productive, happy and free lives.

        And yes, I know I sound like a Democrat when I say that.
        Difference is, I mean it.

        LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

        by dinotrac on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 07:15:41 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  eventually you'll not only mean it (0+ / 0-)

          you'll understand it.

          Then you WILL be a Democrat ;-)

          "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

          by Greg Dworkin on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 07:56:27 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Never happen (again). (0+ / 0-)

            Been there, done that, moved on.

            Because I do understand it.

            I'll admit to nostalgia for the old days of agitating, but that was a different world.

            LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

            by dinotrac on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 12:22:51 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  Of course, it would have to be a very low or no (0+ / 0-)

      Cost. And you need the records to be private, just like all medical records.

      Hmm. If mental health is that important that we want to provide it for all who need it just to keep others safe, shouldn't we do that for all communicable diseases?

      So all people with the flu, or meningitis, or anything  contagious should get treated for nothing or almost nothing, regardless of whether they have insurance.

      We could call it the Public Health Service or something like that...

  •  A question for Greg (5+ / 0-)

    This morning's New Haven Register had a front page story and photo about Joe Lieberman joining the Newtown charitable fund set up to handle donations. The photo shows Lieberman with a half dozen microphones in front of him. Do you know who invited or alerted the media? I'm so hoping it was not Lieberman.

    Maybe the guy is trying to do good but...

    Victory is sweet-November 6, 2012

    by al23 on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 05:48:43 AM PST

  •  Just a thought. If we do manage to re-enact (0+ / 0-)

    an Assault Weapons Ban adding verbiage to require gun makers to clear their new weapons designs with the Justice Department much akin to drug makers getting FDA approval would seem appropriate.

    I want 1 less Tiny Coffin, Why Don't You? Support The President's Gun Violence Plan.

    by JML9999 on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 06:08:44 AM PST

  •  Torture isn't right and does not work (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Miggles, snazzzybird, Minnesota Deb

    Someone being tortured tells their torturer whatever they think the torturer wants to hear to make them stop.  Torture is morally wrong because it is an assault on human dignity.  This argument was settled along time ago.  Our "Serious" media figures dredged it up back when Shurb's advisers though it would be a good idea to use it as an instrument of state policy.  

    Under capitalism man exploits man, under communism the roles are reversed.

    by DavidMS on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 06:10:39 AM PST

  •  Mr. Pitts says... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skohayes, mmacdDE

    "Drunk driving would disappear." and my Gut Opinion strongly disagrees.

    Drunk driving, IMO, will cease only with a fool proof mechanical system that prevents a drunk from starting the motor on a vehicle.

    •  I have to agree there (0+ / 0-)

      there are a lot of stupid drunks out there.

      “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

      by skohayes on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 06:44:06 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Different perspective on Mr. Pitts' analogy (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      snazzzybird, Minnesota Deb

      You're most likely right, the strategy he outlined would have holes.  People would probably find work-arounds to whatever "fool proof" mech was used, too.

      That's also not the point.  I found the example he described to be highly thought-provoking, in that it outlined the contrast between power and morality very clearly for me.  Whether it would work in real life is not relevant.

      The fact remains: we should not torture because it is not right.

      Liberalism is trust of the people tempered by prudence. Conservatism is distrust of the people tempered by fear. ~William E. Gladstone, 1866

      by Jim Tietz on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 07:45:41 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I'm sick (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    flumptytail, cordgrass

    of people saying that opposition to flu shots is irrational. While I'm not opposed to others getting flu shots if they want, I've gotten a flu shot 3 times in my life, in the 90s, and got the flu every one of those 3 years. I haven't gotten a single flu shot in the 21st Century, and haven't gotten the flu once. I don't even think I've had more than one cold this century.

    I'm very careful about hygiene, especially in public places. I eat in a way that keeps my immune system in good shape. And I know other people with my experience. They got the flu shot and got the flu.

    I'm not saying the most vulnerable people, especially those with weakened immune systems should not get the shot. And I'm not saying the flu shot causes the flu. The times I got the flu, I think the vaccine didn't match the strains as well as they might in other years. That happens (see CDC website). I was also in poorer health back then.

    I'm just saying I'm sick of people saying those of us who choose to not get vaccinated are being irrational.

    Okay, start the tomato throwing.

  •  "... on the third hand..." (0+ / 0-)

    Did anyone else think, "... on the gripping hand..."?

    Liberalism is trust of the people tempered by prudence. Conservatism is distrust of the people tempered by fear. ~William E. Gladstone, 1866

    by Jim Tietz on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 07:51:01 AM PST

  •  Huge effing nitpick. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Greg Dworkin

    "Then again, opposition to flu shots isn't rational, either."
    --I have egg allergy and will die if I get a flu shot. I know a lot of anti-vaccine bullshit is just that, bullshit, but this is out of line.

  •  It's good to see David Brooks progressing (0+ / 0-)

    ...even though he's becoming progressively more insane.

    You can't make this stuff up.

    by David54 on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 07:57:22 AM PST

  •  Gun control less popluar as climate change action (0+ / 0-)

    but Obama is still in crickets mode on what is a vastly, vastly more important issue.

    Makes me want to chew nails.

    Hay hombres que luchan un dia, y son buenos Hay otros que luchan un año, y son mejores Hay quienes luchan muchos años, y son muy buenos. Pero hay los que luchan toda la vida. Esos son los imprescendibles.

    by Mindful Nature on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 08:36:04 AM PST

  •  Jonathon Chaits essay on David Brooks (0+ / 0-)

    is really well done, imo. Where do these so called moderate rethugs go when their party is increasingly unstable?

    American Television is a vast sea of stupid. -xxdr zombiexx

    by glitterscale on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 09:40:28 AM PST

  •  So Fox News is blaming Salazar for Kempthorne. (0+ / 0-)

    http://www.foxnews.com/...

    In this article, they avoid using any specific names, but heavily imply that Ken Salazar is responsible for bathroom renovations that cost taxpayers over $200,000 that Dirk Kempthorne actually authorized under the Bush Administration.

    I don't even have words for this.

    18, FL-07 (school), MD-07 (home). UCF sophomore, politically ambitious, vocally liberal--what else could you need to know?

    by tqycolumbia on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 10:17:36 AM PST

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