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Recently, I've read, oh, just one heck of a lot of extreme, hyperbolic, pie-throwing posts from various Kossacks. Every time I think I'm ready to join the debate, I get swamped by the enormity of the task of responding to people with whom I disagree and just SCREAM for me to correct, inform, or throw pie at them.

At the same time, I've read posts that claim to speak for the majority of Kossacks--on both sides of the gun debate. Really, folks, everyone can't be right.

So, at the risk of offending those who demand long, well researched, and insightful posts, I say "screw it." I'm going to ask what you people think. Let's do a great debate. Later.

Now, just vote. Let's get the "bass" line going.



My favored alternative for controlling gun violence in the US is (unless explicitly stated otherwise, all alternatives include universal registration and background checks for whatever future gun sales are allowed):

6%10 votes
1%2 votes
14%22 votes
14%22 votes
20%32 votes
0%0 votes
7%11 votes
13%21 votes
0%1 votes
12%20 votes
8%13 votes

| 154 votes | Vote | Results

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Comment Preferences

  •  Lot of choices, but none of them mine. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cocinero, a2nite

    No wonder this topic is ripe for disagreement.

    My Choice:

    Repeal the 2nd amendment, ban all handguns, assault weapons, and concealed carry.

    This would shut down the industry that is pumping millions of guns into our society every year.

    We were not ahead of our time, we led the way to our time.

    by i understand on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 12:53:55 PM PST

    •  My apologies (0+ / 0-)

      but wasn't this at the top of the list? If not, you could select the "more restrictive alternative" vote toward the bottom. I'm trying to encourage debate and information. Not stifle it.

      Equality! It's what's for dinner!

      by DyspepTex on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 12:57:12 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  The Second Amendment (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      a2nite, majcmb1, wu ming

      would not be an obstacle if not for the 5 to 4 conservative majority on the Roberts court. The scope of the Second Amendment has been addressed in nearly 200 federal and state appellate cases. These decisions uniformly rejected Second Amendment challenges to firearms laws. The U.S. Supreme Court has had numerous opportunities to review these lower court decisions and has consistently refused to do so, until the Heller and McDonald decisions overturned strict handgun bans in D.C. and Chicago on 5 to 4 votes. Even with those decisions, the court made it clear that most restrictions are constitutional under the Second Amendment.

      There is nothing in the proposals Obama made on Wednesday that would be likely to be overturned on appeal.

  •  I may have voted twice. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    coquiero, splashy, Hey338Too

    Somehow I ended up logged out after I voted the first time so I logged in and voted again.

    Where does insurance fit into these choices? Part of the registration process?

  •  Where I am: (7+ / 0-)

    Assault Weapons Ban
    Federal Ban on Magazines that hold more than 15 rounds(states can ban 7 like NY has or 10 like MA if they chose to)
    Mandatory Gun Insurance
    Process of Gun Licensing and Registration similar to motor vehicles.
    Universal Background Checks

    I like to think of myself slightly more progressive than the mainstream on this.   But basically in the middle.

    Washington and Colorado said that you've got to legalize it. Hope the DOJ respects that.

    by pistolSO on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 12:58:39 PM PST

    •  Curious (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      What do you mean by gun insurance? All firearms or just some? Given how trustworthy ins. companies are, what do you think will be a positive outcome? What would they be insured against? I'm not being snarky, I really am curious.

      "The scientific nature of the ordinary man is to go on out and do the best you can." John Prine

      by high uintas on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 01:06:37 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  All firearms (7+ / 0-)

        Insurance against theft, accidental discharge and liability insurance for misuse and insurance protection against uninsured or underinsured gun owners.

        Since insurance is regulated on a state level, states like Montana regulate differently than states like New York or Massachusetts.

        The idea is that A.) the risk pool for gun injury can be spread among all gun owners and gun owners pay into the social costs of gun ownership and B.) the poor and those whose lack adequate health insurance can be provided for in case of injury from a gun thus dealing with a health care cost, and C.) insurance companies push for biometric guns so risk of theft is severely reduced.   Also would be a way to stop gun trafficking.

        Washington and Colorado said that you've got to legalize it. Hope the DOJ respects that.

        by pistolSO on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 01:21:43 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Would it be a standardized rate? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          I'm asking because I imagine numerous scenarios. Old guy w/shotgun in rural area. Urban area with a high crime rate. Hand guns, rifles, ect. Different risk rates. Also, any idea on the Constitutionality on insurance on a right? Or the misuse by others...

          I'm trying to run all the possibilities through. I'm interested in this idea, but I keep seeing potential landmines. Like the right to free speech. We all know that there are limits on speech beyond yelling fire. Libel Slander Threats But, can we force everyone who uses speech to insure themselves because some misuse it?

          I don't know, I'm just rambling.

          "The scientific nature of the ordinary man is to go on out and do the best you can." John Prine

          by high uintas on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 02:01:14 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  It's called insurance underwriting on the (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            splashy, pistolSO, Hey338Too

            basis of acctuarial tables. Create the insurance requirements and the standard insurance industry "bean counters" will go to work on the pricing, risk placement, etc.

            There can be no protection locally if we're content to ignore the fact that there are no controls globally.

            by oldpotsmuggler on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 02:46:40 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  Or maybe a tax on guns and ammo (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          pistolSO, high uintas, profewalt, a2nite

          to go towards the cost of covering medical and surgical treatment of GSWs.  Our nation's trauma response system is funded largely by the federal government through Medicaid and supplemental funding to the states.

          Also we need the CDC/NIH Institute for Injury Prevention to not have their hands tied by congress, who have prevented them from studying anything that might "lead to gun control measures."  Also the ATF needs to be able to collect data and store it on a computer database, that can be used by researchers (also prohibited by an act of congress) to study the specifics about gun injuries and deaths that can point to ways to mi imize them.  It is difficult to have this "discussion" about gun violence when we don't have basic data on the injuries and epidemiological patterns.

          •  Agree on studies and databases (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            pistolSO, a2nite

            Also, I think a designated tax might be the best way to handle the impact of gun violence and misuse, easier to do legally. Maybe. I'm certainly not a lawyer.

            "The scientific nature of the ordinary man is to go on out and do the best you can." John Prine

            by high uintas on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 02:25:54 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

  •  I like the polls on Dkos though they aren't (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    shopkeeper, cocinero, a2nite, majcmb1

    used so often as they used to be.

    But unfortunately the only ones that get enough votes, a few thousand, to give a good feeling about issues are almost always those on the front page.  There's such a stream of content here and such a large number of users are in and out for various periods of time that it's almost impossible to get a feel of the membership for most anything really.

    But I appreciate your efforts to try to focus the discussion.

    I think every argument about every aspect of gun control has been made hundreds of times already.  I don't mind the heated exchanges on any issue so much as long as they're substantive.

    More: Some men think the Earth is round, others think it flat; it is a matter capable of question. But if it is flat, will the King's command make it round? And if it is round, will the King's command flatten it?

    by blueoasis on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 01:11:28 PM PST

  •  my question is whether the gun debate (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    is the inverse of the pot debate.

  •  I chose the fifth and.................. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    pistolSO, profewalt, a2nite

    so far the choice getting the most votes. However, I would put high-capacity clips at 9-10 rounds for handguns and 5-6 for long guns.

    Also, my vote is somewhat tempered by what I believe to be remotely passable given the current configuration of Congress. Further, to be realistic, the gun problem will not be solved or even improved very much very quickly.

    Eventually I would favor licensing of owners, registration of all firearms and mandatory liability insurance. I would like to see these requirements "tiered" based on the firearm type.  E.G.  low capacity hunting long guns such as double barrel shotguns would have the least restrictive requirements; semi-automatic handguns the most.

    The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation--HDT

    by cazcee on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 01:40:45 PM PST

    •  All ideas are welcome (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cazcee, a2nite

      and I tend to be where you're at.

      My biggest concern, and I'm serious about this, is that the Dems fumble the gun debate and throw a lifeline to the self-destructing GOP.

      If the debate is NOT approached intelligently and with a great deal of strategic planning, we'll hand the Mountain West to the GOP and throw out the impending progress we're making in states like Texas, in which the growing Latino majority leans Democratic. If we do so, we could conceivably kill more people through unwarranted wars, austerity reforms, and institutionalized poverty than guns would kill in a hundred years.

      Or, maybe I'm just paranoid......

      Equality! It's what's for dinner!

      by DyspepTex on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 01:50:12 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  the growing latino population (0+ / 0-)

        does not have the same attachment to guns as white westerners. as their numbers grow, look for number supporting gun control to rise.

        (caveat: i have no idea if this holds regionally for texas, whose latino population is distinct politically in many ways from their counterparts in california, where i'm more familiar. tejanos, feel free to disabuse me of my ignorance).

  •  Background checks for all firearms sales (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    pistolSO, majcmb1

    with the 4473 being the de facto registration that must be presented if the gun is to be transferred yet again.

    PSAs about safe storage practices

    Enhanced criminal prosecution of negligent storage practices

    Federal funding for studies of injuries/deaths

    "No questions asked" temporary storage facilities of owner's guns for those who believe there is a current risk of danger by a family member accessing guns in the house.

    Increased funding for domestic abuse abatement, protection, prosecution, victim's services

    Increased funding for community based gang diversion programs

    Increased funding for public mental health programs and accessibility including suicide prevention programs

    "1 strike you're out" in terms of future ownership for those who use a weapon during the commission of a felony.

    I see a very beautiful planet that seems very inviting and peaceful. Unfortunately, it is not.…We're better than this. We must do better. Cmdr Scott Kelley

    by wretchedhive on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 02:49:08 PM PST

  •  Well, you are an honest broker on this.n/t (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    There can be no protection locally if we're content to ignore the fact that there are no controls globally.

    by oldpotsmuggler on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 02:50:22 PM PST

  •  I want liability insurance required (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    pistolSO, a2nite, Hey338Too

    On all guns, held by owners, manufacturers and dealers.

    That way the corporate insurance people will force the manufacturers to make them safer, to lower their costs.

    Not on the poll, so I didn't vote.

    Women create the entire labor force. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sympathy is the strongest instinct in human nature. - Charles Darwin

    by splashy on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 02:54:19 PM PST

  •  Good Poll. I wish they would FP it as there is (0+ / 0-)

    obviously great diversity of opinion within our community.

  •  All of them are either/or choices. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    The entire list presumes that what we've got now has been used to the fullest extent of capability.

    The list of choices are like someone asking if the screwdriver needs to be cranked three turns tighter (repeal) or just a fraction of a turn tighter (something less than listed).... when there are other tools in the kit than screwdrivers. What about hammers and wrenches and saws?

    Seriously, take an example from another large issue we are having - the size of the banks at the top of the banking industry. Everyone goes on and on about how to shrink them, what sort of new laws might work that can do the job. Everyone is presuming that there are no other viable options... what about the anti trust laws? No new law is needed, but still the war on bank regulations rages on, oblivious to how splitting them up can make no bank too big to fail while not harming shareholder value at all - the shares would split and likely climb afterwards.

    Where are the people who recognize that there is a path to victory that doesn't involve new laws?

    Damn. it's like people enjoy the fight.

    It's safe to trust a sane person with the keys to nuclear weapons, but it's not safe to trust an insane person with the cleaners under the kitchen sink. The answer is not gun control, it's people care.

    by JayFromPA on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 03:20:20 PM PST

  •  Try em all.. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite, majcmb1

    ..see which one ends up with the fewest dead people.

    When extra-terrestrial beings make their first appearance on our planet, and ask for representatives of our species to best exemplify humanity, I'm sending a nurse, a librarian, and a firefighter.

    by Wayward Son on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 03:41:31 PM PST

  •  Gun manufacturers need to be held responsible (0+ / 0-)

    Like the tobacco manufacturers have been, Also the gun sellers, need to be accountable but don't know how??

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