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In light of the recent fighting going on --fighting which I completely tuned out on this time because I just can't go there right now, I thought it worth posting up the very obvious.

Advocacy is selling people.  When we want to motivate others to align with us, take action, share a belief, contribute to a cause, or maybe just agree, it is all about closing the deal.

It's not about bullying, intimidation, superior logic, or greater intelligence, or any other lame ass, shitty tactic we see Kossacks doing because they didn't get their way in a discussion.

Ever buy things from people you don't like?  I don't, because I don't like them and the end game on that sucks!  And if I actually have to do that, what is the first thing I do?  Double down on finding people I like to buy from!  

If you can't sell it here, then you have some work to do.  It's that simple.
 You might have a decade of research on your side.  You might actually be the one person in the world who has it right on too, but it won't mean jack if you can't get out there and sell it to the others.

When you fight, you marginalize yourself, Kossacks in general (and that is just shitty people), the message, movement and generally do more harm than good.

Feels great though!  Doesn't it?  You delivered that zinger and just sit an inch taller for a while because you kicked so damn much ass!  Then it's over, and like a drug you want more, and an ugly thing gets fugly!

Do you know you get the same feeling from closing the deal?  Finding common ground with a difficult set of discussion partners is just as big of a buzz!  Getting new signups for that action generates a buzz too!  And unlike the other buzz, real good is done, value added, a net gain is made.

Sell it people.  If you aren't doing that, you aren't adding value and we are all worth less because of it.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JayRaye, elkhunter, Neuroptimalian

    ***Be Excellent To One Another***

    by potatohead on Tue Jan 22, 2013 at 09:47:15 AM PST

  •  Great Diary! potatohead. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    (funny fact, my mother once had a job making Mr Potatoheads!)

    But anyway, here we are debating an issue in ugly tones when in fact, I would be willing to bet $10,000 that there is overwhelming support for the President's Gun Safety Proposal here at DK.

    Can we please stop the Pie Fights and Get Busy. A small group here opposes most if not all of the Gun Safety Plan. Can't we simply ignore them and Get Busy?

    The President has asked us to contact our Reps and Senators. Can we please see some sample (& hopefully, thoughtful) letters that others can copy and send?

    We have a chance to actually pass some meaningful legislation here, but instead folks are berating gun owners and 2nd Amendment supporters most of whom are likely your allies when it comes to supporting the Obama/Biden Gun Safety Plan.

    Focus, people, focus!

    And that goes double for the FPers.

    WE NEVER FORGET Our Labor Martyrs: a project to honor the men, women and children who lost their lives in Freedom's Cause. For Jan: USW Local Mourns Fallen Brother

    by JayRaye on Tue Jan 22, 2013 at 10:11:18 AM PST

  •  Good diary. However... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    ...the problem, near as I can tell, is that a lot of the people who cause disruption around these parts aren't really interested in selling it. They're just using Kos' Virtual Soapbox for emotional gratification of the cheapest kind. They're not genuinely interested in advocacy -- they're interested in emotional reinforcement for their cynicism.

    "Slinging it" is the point to these kinds. Convincing people takes work and attention. Fighting, screeching and provoking, by comparison, is easy and (I guess) fun.

    "Every now & then your brain gifts you with the thought, 'oh, that's right, I don't actually give a **** about this.' Treasure it" -- jbou

    by kenlac on Tue Jan 22, 2013 at 11:12:47 AM PST

    •  Exactly. And calling that out regularly (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      builds the right norms.

      The more of us that walk away from it, the better.  I personally like to just note the self-marginalization, ask them how I can help and move on, leaving them with all the frustrations to resolve and me free to enjoy dialog with people who actually are interested in such, not self-serving gratification of one kind or another.

      ***Be Excellent To One Another***

      by potatohead on Tue Jan 22, 2013 at 11:52:38 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Walking away is one of two prongs. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        The other prong is the "voice of authority" saying, on a regular basis and whenever necessary, "Hey, that kind of thing don't fly here."

        Peer-to-peer moderation does not work psychologically. One member of the community can say to another that something is out of bounds, but all that ends up doing is inviting an argument about what the boundaries are, since the "abuser" has as much right to say what the boundary is as the accuser. Thus, the pie gets deeper instead of going away. Only when official moderators step in do people back down.

        It's a wonderful ideal to allow DKos to be democratically open as possible, but a certain type is always going to abuse and game that very freedom.

        "Every now & then your brain gifts you with the thought, 'oh, that's right, I don't actually give a **** about this.' Treasure it" -- jbou

        by kenlac on Tue Jan 22, 2013 at 01:07:23 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yep. I don't disagree. (0+ / 0-)

          Now, if you go through my diaries you will find plenty on how to push back on garbage like this and add value, keeping the pie fighting to a minimum.

          I'm not entirely a walk away advocate, just saying.

          When those methods are used, people do back down.  Ask around.  Once I put a highlighter on a few with a tag in the comment "THERE IT IS!" and it worked brilliantly.  It's easy to get lost in the crowd, or just keep trolling others hard when it's noisy.

          It's a lot harder when those behaviors get characterized as such, identified and tagged for reference later on.  Add bonus points for links to diaries that model those behaviors and how to marginalize them quickly without getting caught up into it.

          Just didn't have the energy this time around...


          ***Be Excellent To One Another***

          by potatohead on Tue Jan 22, 2013 at 05:50:29 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  I'm sure I'll be accussed of (0+ / 0-)

    superior logic, or greater intelligence for pointing out that your argument is diametrically opposed to what social psychology suggests about running forums.  

    God forbid Democrats use logic or intelligence in their decision making.   It's much better that we use wardens.  Sorry I meant trusted users.

    •  Actually no. I made an appeal to the person (0+ / 0-)

      simply noting that when we use intimidation, etc... against others, it's not really advocacy and not really effective.

      I made no comment on how to run the forum.  That's a different discussion.

      ***Be Excellent To One Another***

      by potatohead on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 08:22:51 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

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