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Good Morning Kossacks and Welcome to Morning Open Thread (MOT)


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Good morning good morning good morning
Actually its evening as I sit here.
Cold and rainy out here in OR on wednesday night.
Hmm what to talk about   (racks brain)
I see in the paper theyre opening up all combat to women and someone wrote a diary about it already.  Won't that be so fun for them.  I wonder what it would have been like to share a foxhole with a woman. That sort of relationship is such a forced thing anyway. This will certainly be interesting to see how that works out.

The talk about it always turns to bathroom facilities and carrying heavy weights but there's more to it than that even. Its about attitude like nothing else. Well,they'll find out soon enough. I think one thing for sure---the all volunteer army will kind of sort this out because I can't imagine joining the infantry being really attractive to lots of women. Its all about killing people which is sort of Macho X 1,000,000.  Like I said, its not all that attractive to most men either.

Has this been done in other armies yet? Anybody know how that worked out? I remember reading somewhere that the Israelis didn't have women in the front lines because they felt that their enemies would fight harder to keep being beat by women.
I dunno, glad I don't have to work this one out.

I  only think  in terms of infantry because thats what I was and to tell the truth, once youre in the infantry you find its the job that nobody wants to  be in and everybody wants out of.Most people anyway. I think its safe to say that most women won't do this job well because most men don't do the job well, either. thats the truth you won't hear often but I bet over half of all grunts never fire their guns in combat. People tend to peel off and get lost when the bullets start flying. probably 25% or less do it all. If youre not into being in the infantry, you won't do well in it, male or female. Its the hardest job in the world, IMHO and it takes a special person to do it, male or female.

I couldn't imagine  trying to fight a war like they do now with all that body armor. Basically all the stuff we carried plus 40 lbs of body armor. That would be well over 100 lbs. In the lrrps we didn't even wear helmets or flak jackets. Can't imagine fighting a war like that, for one thing you have to run, jump,roll around and crawl a lot and its awkward enough as it is, nemmine 40 lbs of body armor.

Well, chew the fat over that or do whatever you want as long as you don't wake me up because Morning Open Thread is beginning right now.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (5+ / 0-)

    Happy just to be alive

    by exlrrp on Thu Jan 24, 2013 at 03:30:07 AM PST

  •  Good Morning (5+ / 0-)

    I'm heading to Cordele, Ga this morning to Run Speed Fest, it's a 200 lap late model race.

    Hopeeveryone has a decent Thursday


  •  Hello world.... (6+ / 0-)

    I'm back to work after three days of building RC planes and trying to get some art started.

    How about that Hillary? Conservatives claimed that she was playing 'possum. And then she blasted them in Congress. Now they're just left with the rare limp ad hominem on Facebook.

    "If this Studebaker had anymore Atomic Space-Age Style, you'd have to be an astronaut with a geiger counter!"

    by Stude Dude on Thu Jan 24, 2013 at 03:44:53 AM PST

  •  Morning, ex & Kogs (6+ / 0-)

    Been awake since 2:15 a.m. and up since 2:50.  At least I have written tomorrow's MOT and started Sunday's.  

    I may be headed back to bed shortly as the eyelids are dropping.

    Have a great day, everybuddy ;~D

    As we express our gratitude, we must never forget that the highest appreciation is not to utter words, but to live by them. John F. Kennedy

    by JaxDem on Thu Jan 24, 2013 at 03:47:44 AM PST

  •  How About This (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JaxDem, Otteray Scribe, exlrrp

    I often joke the coolest thing you will see this year.

    When opportunity calls pick up the phone and give it directions to your house.

    by webranding on Thu Jan 24, 2013 at 03:47:55 AM PST

  •  It's the old Yin and Yang. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JaxDem, Otteray Scribe, exlrrp, Aunt Pat

    I use to be strongly against it and now I'm for it.

    You know you're in full winter mode when 25 degrees is a warming trend.

    We're fools whether we dance or not, so we might as well dance.

    by PowWowPollock on Thu Jan 24, 2013 at 03:50:22 AM PST

  •  I think we will see women in MOS (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    webranding, JaxDem, exlrrp, Aunt Pat

    like intelligence and possibly even special ops.  We already have women flying helicopters and fighter planes.  One of the A-10s that almost got Saddam and his sons was flown by a female captain.  This will make women eligible for the CIB, and other combat related awards that cannot be given to them now even when they earn it.

    I saw a Marine Captain last night on the Rachel Maddow Show who was a linguist specializing in middle eastern languages.  She should be working in intelligence, but that was off limits to her, so she left the Marines and is now just in the Reserves.

    I have a little more difficulty seeing them slogging through fifty miles of jungle mud or other forced marches with a full combat pack.  On the other hand, I don't think we will ever see another war like WW-I and WW-II.  Wars of the future will be asymmetrical.  Heavy lifting done by machines rather than by grunts.  I recall that some of the most effective snipers have historically been women.

    The general who wins the battle makes many calculations in his temple before the battle is fought. The general who loses makes but few calculations beforehand. - Sun Tzu

    by Otteray Scribe on Thu Jan 24, 2013 at 03:52:46 AM PST

    •  I can see the usefulness (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Otteray Scribe, JaxDem, Aunt Pat

      Believe me there's plenty of combat jobs they can do.

      But you can make general without seeing combat---Petraeus did.  I was looking up to see what he got his CIB for and I can't find it.
      he never held  low level combat command in war. As fr as I can tell he never served in actual combat.
      notice he has the CIB anyway.

      Something else really noticeable here is the NINE rows of ribbons. This is the most I ever saw on a  soldiers chest.
      I could not find any picture of Eisenhower, Patton, Macarthur, Bradley with any more than 5 rows. (Audie Murohy: 3 rows) What do they give these medals for? Best looking lawn?
      this is resume polishing like we haven't seen since David HAckworth


      Happy just to be alive

      by exlrrp on Thu Jan 24, 2013 at 04:21:28 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  His bronze star was a unit citation (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        exlrrp, JaxDem, Aunt Pat

        Somehow it does not seem right for a guy to get a bronze star for manning a desk while the mudfighters who earned it get shot at and blown up.  

        David Petraeus is an ego that walks like a man.

        The general who wins the battle makes many calculations in his temple before the battle is fought. The general who loses makes but few calculations beforehand. - Sun Tzu

        by Otteray Scribe on Thu Jan 24, 2013 at 04:24:50 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  No they get them all the time (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Otteray Scribe, JaxDem, Aunt Pat

          There's two kinds of Bronze stars: with and without V.
          the V stands for---wait for it---valor.
          You get one for bravery and one for "meritorious," which cold be for running an efficent mess hall
          (no fooling! I don't have a Bronze Star---but the ex company clerk of my lrrp company does)

          The awards sytem is a corruptpolitical system heavily influenced by officers, many of who write the citations for  friends.

          The poster boy for this was David Hackworth. He had commanded the 101st Battalion I was in (1/327) leaving just before I got there.
          the 101st was notoriously stingy with medals. John Kerry would have gotten no medal in the 101st for blowing away that one guy, that was just business in the 101st. Geez, everybody I know would have gotten a medal for that! And yet he walked away after 6 months comnding with more medals than my whole company got in the 5.5 months i was witth them.

          It was obscene: 2 Silver Stars, 4 Bronze Stars, dunno how many Arcoms, 14 Air medals. he must have had a full time staff member just walking around writing him up!!
          I never knew ANYONE in the 101st that got an Airmedal, think you would have had to sleep in the helicopter to get that many. he was notorious for flying around, (being flown around) lannding and chasing after the enmy---a lt col Bn cmmanderr!!  Dumbass!! Thats not the Bn commanders job!! Just a real hot dog!!

          There's no justice in the world and least of all in war

          Happy just to be alive

          by exlrrp on Thu Jan 24, 2013 at 05:09:14 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Boorda killed himself over the V device (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Otteray Scribe, JaxDem, Aunt Pat

            admiral Mike Boorda killed himself having been busted (by Hackworth) wearing 2 unauthorized V devices.
            the difference is large bewteen V and nonV for people who know


            Boorda died on May 16, 1996 from an apparent suicide, after allegedly shooting himself in the chest.[9] The autopsy results were never released to the public. Boorda reportedly also left two suicide notes; neither of which were released publicly, but the notes were said to have been addressed to his wife and to his Public Information Officer.[10] He was reported to have been distraught over a news media investigation, led by David Hackworth of Newsweek, into two Combat Distinguishing Devices (Combat "V") he wore on the Navy and Marine Corps Commendation Medal and Navy and Marine Corps Achievement Medal service ribbons on his navy uniform. The "V' device is a miniature bronze letter "V" worn on suspension and service ribbons of certain medals and ribbons, indicating valor in combat; the media report claimed that Boorda was not entitled to wear them

            Happy just to be alive

            by exlrrp on Thu Jan 24, 2013 at 05:19:46 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I know that Vietnam was famous for (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              JaxDem, exlrrp, Aunt Pat

              unearned awards, but I am wondering if has gotten better since then, about the same, or worse.  

              One of my paternal great grandfather's rode up San Juan Hill with Teddy Roosevelt.  TR was armed with a saber in one hand and a pistol in the other.  Not many Lt. Col. rank officers lead a charge from the front.  TR was nominated for the Medal of Honor for that, but when he got into politics, it pissed off a lot of congressmen who refused to vote for the award.  It languished until Bill Clinton had a Republican congress and pushed it through almost a century late.   Come to think of it, Clinton awarded a lot of belated medals, especially to black and Asian troops who had earned them but never awarded due to racism.  

              The general who wins the battle makes many calculations in his temple before the battle is fought. The general who loses makes but few calculations beforehand. - Sun Tzu

              by Otteray Scribe on Thu Jan 24, 2013 at 05:28:17 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  TR was another hot dog! (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Otteray Scribe

                Another macho man who wanted to say he commanded in combat.

                LBJ's Silver Star was considered to be political also


                Johnson[who was then still in office as a Congressman but became a Naval reserve officer] reported to General Douglas MacArthur in Australia. Johnson and two Army officers went to the 22nd Bomb Group base, which was assigned the high risk mission of bombing the Japanese airbase at Lae in New Guinea. A colonel took Johnson's original seat on one bomber, and it was shot down with no survivors. Reports vary on what happened to the B-26 Marauder carrying Johnson. Lyndon Johnson said it was also attacked by Japanese fighters but survived, while others, including other members of the flight crew, claim it turned back because of generator trouble before reaching the objective and before encountering enemy aircraft and never came under fire, which is supported by official flight records.[20] Other airplanes that continued to the target did come under fire near the target at about the same time that Johnson's plane was recorded as having landed back at the original airbase. MacArthur awarded Johnson the Silver Star, the military's third-highest medal.[

                Happy just to be alive

                by exlrrp on Thu Jan 24, 2013 at 05:49:23 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  re: LBJ (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Otteray Scribe

                  Never looked at LBJ the same after I learned that years ago. With character like that you gotta wonder why the colonel took his seat on the flight tht crashed, like maybe LBJ stopped to tie his shoe or something on the way to get on the plane. yeah right.
                  It could have happened.
                  don't ever let ANBODY ever tell you its not a heavily influenced political system---plenty more stories

                  Happy just to be alive

                  by exlrrp on Thu Jan 24, 2013 at 07:39:27 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                •  Of course TR was a hot dog (0+ / 0-)

                  anyone who runs for, or becomes President has to have a pretty big ego as well as thick skin.  Difference between people like LBJ and Ronnie Raygun is that when it came to being a hot dog, at least TR was the real deal.  My PawPaw loved Col. Roosevelt, and would have crawled on broken glass for him.  PawPaw was there, and knew what his boss was made of.  PawPaw died when I was pretty young, but I still have clear memories of him, and a few pictures of him.  His son, my uncle, was a fighter pilot in WW-I.

                  The general who wins the battle makes many calculations in his temple before the battle is fought. The general who loses makes but few calculations beforehand. - Sun Tzu

                  by Otteray Scribe on Thu Jan 24, 2013 at 09:20:44 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

              •  Its gotten worse (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Otteray Scribe

                Petraeus is the poster child for that. You never saw a chest full of medals like that even in the Vietnam war.  the guy listens too much to his biographer

                Happy just to be alive

                by exlrrp on Thu Jan 24, 2013 at 06:08:39 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

      •  Only 5 rows (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Otteray Scribe, exlrrp, JaxDem, Aunt Pat

        And he was in combat, negotiated a peace treaty and won a war.

        Hobbs: "How come we play war and not peace?" Calvin: "Too few role models."

        by BOHICA on Thu Jan 24, 2013 at 04:32:23 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  lotta salad on his chest (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JaxDem, exlrrp, Aunt Pat

        More than I also have seen in pics of Patton or Marshal or Eisenhower or even MacArthur (and Mac did not have an inferiority complex)  More than Blackjack Pershing and in WWI he was The Man; more than Smedley Butler who had two MoHs.  I suppose I could search farther but I concede that is the most I have ever seen, even in the movies, except for the comic opera colonels  

  •  Mornin' exlrrp and early risers . . . (5+ / 0-)

    . . . and I don't know if you are like me, but those Senate and House inquiries where everybody gets to grandstand about how concerned they are over the faux crisis de jour should go the way of the dinosaurs. What a waste of oxygen!

    Hillary should have told the schlock Johnson from Wis to STFU. He's a rookie, I wonder if he was around to vote 'no' on funding? And Rand Paul (what were mommy and daddy thinking with that name) should just remember how little most people care about what he thinks.

    Damn cold here in Northern IL, it's off to the grind with me. Hope everyone has a top notch Thursday, aka 'the day that touches Friday'. Peace.

    - Politics is the entertainment branch of industry.
    - Frank Zappa

    by rudyblues on Thu Jan 24, 2013 at 03:58:25 AM PST

  •  morning MOTers (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JaxDem, Aunt Pat

    It appears that my 3 day BP headache has finally broken.  At least I am not nauseated and my eyes seem to focus a lot better.  
    Things are looking up; now to figure whether to repaint the truck fluorescent green after the grandkids decorated it with spray paint or to repaint it with factory white or try to find some way to turn the kids' art into racing flames or something

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