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The effort in Virginia and other Republican-led states to change how their states allocate electoral college votes seems to be both picking up steam and, with the publicity, on the verge of collapse, depending on who you believe. But count me with Charlie Pierce on this one: The central point of the Virginia one, at least, is flatly racist. There ain't no "maybe" about it, either.

The Virginia proposal goes farther than other states have dared in that it declares that not only will Virginia's electoral votes be divided up based on congressional districts—which, conveniently, are currently heavily gerrymandered on behalf of Republicans, which is in turn why so many of these dim bulbs suddenly got the idea at the same time—but that the last two state electoral votes will go to whoever wins not the most votes, but the most districts. Why? The bill's sponsor is pretty damn blunt about it:

The bill’s sponsor, state Sen. Charles W. Carrico Sr. (R-Grayson County), said he wants to give smaller communities a bigger voice. “The last election, constituents were concerned that it didn’t matter what they did, that more densely populated areas were going to outvote them,” he said.
Catch that? The problem is that there are more voters in the cities, and that makes other areas of the state feel bad. An earlier story on the subject had Carrico giving the same line:
Sen. Charles W. "Bill" Carrico, R-Grayson, said the change is necessary because Virginia's populous, urbanized areas such as the Washington, D.C., suburbs and Hampton Roads can outvote rural regions such as his, rendering their will irrelevant.
Oh, heavens! If every person's vote counts the same, then places with more people will get more votes! You know… urban areas. Places that aren't Republican enough. So the way to fix this, according to Carrico and fellow Republicans, is (1) gerrymandering black (sorry, "urban") voters into fewer districts (already done, and on Martin Luther King Day, because they're just that goddamn obvious about these things), then make the votes from those districts count for proportionally less, per capita, than the good, white, Republican votes of the outlying areas. I'm not sure if the Virginia proposal makes urban votes worth only 3/5ths as much as rural votes, because I am not good at the mathz, but good Lord—Carrico and the others couldn't have made their intent any more plain if they had followed up that previous surprise gerrymander with a statehouse salute to confederate general Stonewall Jackson himself. What? They actually did that? Classic.

Right now it's not clear that the Virginia effort will go anywhere. At least two Republicans have expressed a general hostility to the plan, though not particularly because of the obvious Jim Crow racism of trying to give white, Republican counties extra presidential votes just because they so obviously deserve it.

Other Republican states are plotting similar measures, and for the same reasons, and are beginning to finally get similar scrutiny. The Republican Party has finally realized that being the party of white voters and only white voters is not a sustainable long-term path to anything but a humiliating obsolescence; from there, there are two choices. They could recast their party so as to better appeal to minority and, heaven forfend, "urban" voters—but that would be hard. So they're choosing the far easier, more straightforward path: demonizing the "47 percent", and post-election mutterings about the "urban" voters, and trying to make sure those irritatingly non-Republican votes count for as little as possible. In Virginia's case, they're being downright blunt about it: We need to make urban votes count for proportionally less than other votes, period. Why? Because they're racists pure and simple, that's why. Oh, I'm sorry—because it would create a momentary "strategic advantage" to block those votes, according to the current euphemisms about such things. If you can't keep the non-Republicans from voting, then the next step is to pass laws saying those votes just don't count for as much anymore, because having them count like they used to would be "unfair" to the dwindling Republican folks.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 12:40 PM PST.

Also republished by Black Kos community.

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Comment Preferences

    •  Call it what it is:Racist, Immoral, Un-Democratic, (17+ / 0-)

      Un-American:

      Instead of every vote in a state counting equally

      Seat Voting means:

      Black Voters votes count less

      Hispanic Voters votes count less

      Asian Voters votes count less

      Working Women Voters votes count less

      Young Voters votes count less

      White Voters votes count more

      White Male Votes Count Most

      in determining a state electorial votes

      That's Racist, Immoral, Un-Democratic, Un-American

      Tired of hearing crazy voices? turn off FOX News. Single Payer: healthcare for all of God's living creatures in America.

      by ca democrat on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 01:24:12 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Racist, immoral--yes. UnAmerican--no. (6+ / 0-)
        The bill’s sponsor, state Sen. Charles W. Carrico Sr. (R-Grayson County), said he wants to give smaller communities a bigger voice. “The last election, constituents were concerned that it didn’t matter what they did, that more densely populated areas were going to outvote them,” he said.

        Catch that? The problem is that there are more voters in the cities, and that makes other areas of the state feel bad. An earlier story on the subject had Carrico giving the same line:

        Sen. Charles W. "Bill" Carrico, R-Grayson, said the change is necessary because Virginia's populous, urbanized areas such as the Washington, D.C., suburbs and Hampton Roads can outvote rural regions such as his, rendering their will irrelevant.

        Expand this to the nation instead of the state, and you have the current rationale for the existence of the Electoral College. (Originally the rationale may have been somewhat different, or maybe not.) Even on DKos, start a discussion about abolishing the EC and just having a national popular vote, and a significant % of Kossacks will defend the EC because it ensures "small states" have a voice.

        Not me. I support the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact.

        "The true strength of our nation comes not from the might of our arms or the scale of our wealth, but from the enduring power of our ideals." - Barack Obama

        by HeyMikey on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 02:58:30 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Essentially (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JML9999, LilithGardener, cybersaur

      they are trying to re-impose the 3/5 person for African Americans.

      The bitter truth of deep inequality has been disguised by an era of cheap imported goods and the anyone-can-make-it celebrity myth - Polly Toynbee

      by fladem on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 03:42:36 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Have you ever been to Grayson County? (34+ / 0-)

    I have. My family owns some land there. There is a tiny little village there called Sugar Grove where you can see more rebel flags flying on flagpoles in front yards than anything else.

    Racism? yup.

    Whose interest does ignorance serve? - Carl Sagan

    by spgilbert on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 12:45:40 PM PST

    •  Took a weekend vacation there with my family,... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Jeff Y

      and we found ourselves in a cabin next door to the Grand Dragon of the Virginia Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. While it's a beautiful part of the state, rebel flags do far outnumber American flags. The truly saddest part is that this part of Virginia also abounds with the rural poor. It is one place that needs a lift--right out of its problems of both racism and poverty. I doubt that Senator Carrico is working on alleviating either one.

  •  I hope it does backfire on the VA GOP (25+ / 0-)

    It is a terrible thing to see and have no vision. ~ Helen Keller

    by Pam from Calif on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 12:46:38 PM PST

    •  I hope it backfires (35+ / 0-)

      on the WHOLE GOP!  Reince Priebus is not from VA, and his fingerprints are all over this new strategy, along with the Koch Brothers, ALEC, etc... They are a nasty bunch :(

      "What would you think me if I were capable of seating myself at a table and gorging myself with food and saw about me the children of my fellow beings starving to death." - Eugene Victor Debs

      by DianeNYS on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 12:50:14 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  The fear I have is that, if these plans go to the (8+ / 0-)

      Supreme Court, the Court will declare they are constitutional. After all, there have always been a couple of states that allocate electoral votes at least partially by congressional district and nobody's complained about them.
      Given the Supreme Court we now have, I wouldn't be surprised if they voted to uphold the state right (as in "states' rights") to disenfranchise the majority in their state.
      And since some states have talked about going back to state legislatures choosing their Senators, we could end up with a complete wipe out -- gerrymandered districts in Blue states creating permanent Republican legislatures, majority Republican Congressional delegations, Republican Senators chosen by the Republican legislatures, and majority of electoral votes going to the minority popular vote Republican candidate.
      Lovely.
      Please, if someone here has some legal background in this, Talk Me Down!

      While Democrats work to get more people to vote, Republicans work to ensure those votes won't count.

      by Tamar on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 12:54:27 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Maine and Nebraska already do this. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        HeyMikey

        It's perfectly Constitutional.  

        Don't jump.  

        Intolerance betrays want of faith in one's cause. - Gandhi

        by SpamNunn on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 01:17:18 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I know. That's why I'm worried. Though, I do (0+ / 0-)

          wonder if their system has ever been tested in court.

          While Democrats work to get more people to vote, Republicans work to ensure those votes won't count.

          by Tamar on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 01:22:53 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  No, and it won't be. The Constitution allows the (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            jrooth, HeyMikey

            States to decide how to allocate their Electoral votes.  

            Intolerance betrays want of faith in one's cause. - Gandhi

            by SpamNunn on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 01:30:53 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Without fail. Please check your constitution (5+ / 0-)

              Every goddamn thread on this topic, someone says this and cites the same part of the constitution.  While states can choose how to select electoral voters, the means chosen must still comply with the rest of the constitution.

              Read Baker v. Carr, from the 1960s.  The states also can choose how to pick representatives ( single member districts are not required) yet their methods must comport with equal protection.  In that case, the state was trying to draw districts with unequal numbers of citizens, so rural voters had more congressional voting power.  (Sound familiar?)

              To illustrate the point, I assume you would not say that if Virginia simply said "presidential electors shall be chosen by the votes of 100 randomly selected white citizens," that it's constitutional.  It violates the equal protection clause.   So does this scheme by giving rural voters more proportionate weight to their votes, as Hunter described above.

              I researched and did not see any appellate decisions on the constitutionality of Nebraska and Maine's systems.  If there has not been a lawsuit challenging them with a court decision upholding them, their existence is not proof of their constitutionality.  

      •  This system is constitutional for a number of... (11+ / 0-)

        states. It works quite well in Maine and Nebraska, and would be fine for other states like Iowa, Nevada, Kansas, Arkansas. They are all small states where it would be rare for a candidate to receive a majority of the popular vote but not a majority of the electoral votes.

         The absurdity of what is going on in Virginia and Pennsylvania is that they have set up a system to where they are using gerrymandered districts to disregard the will of the voter in the presidential election. If this system had been in place in Virginia last November, Obama would have received 23% of the electoral votes even though he received 51% of the popular vote.

         In a way, I hope this bill Senate Bill 723  does make it to the floor, and into wide media attention, even the court system. Virginia is subject to the Voting Rights Act and the case could easily be argued the law is intended to dilute the urban vote down to 3/5 of a person. The backlash would be phenomenal, the GOP would look awful, and their attempt to cheat their way into winning elections would be struck down, after the damage to them is cemented.

         It seems though a couple of Reps in VA have caught on to this and are opposing the bill.

        •  Check the demographics (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ontario, LilithGardener

          I always thought Republicans didn't believe in science.  How are they going to be able to clone about 2 million old white men in Virginia?  This tactic may work for 2016 and possibly 2020, but after that, all the gerrymandering in the world won't help them come up with the necessary votes.  It's clearly desperation on their part.  I'm with you on this.  They haven't looked too far into the future.  

          "Never before in all our history have these forces been so united against one candidate as they stand today. They are unanimous in their hate for me--and I welcome their hatred." Franklin D. Roosevelt

          by djbender on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 01:59:50 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  3/5 of a person, huh? (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Mannie, akeitz, cybersaur

          I've heard that before...

          For if there is a sin against life, it consists perhaps not so much in despairing of life as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this life. - Albert Camus

          by Anne Elk on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 02:19:02 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Actually (11+ / 0-)

    going with split electoral college takes a state out of play as an influence or a battleground, so all these excuses about aiding rural areas are baloney.

    If Virginia GOP really wanted their state to have influence, it would retain the present system - but then, the GOP are all about the good of their party, not the good of their states.

    Rick Perry - the greatest scientist since Galileo!

    by Bobs Telecaster on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 12:46:39 PM PST

  •  People in VA, and similair states like PA, etc. (17+ / 0-)

    need to contact the NAACP, ACLU,  and any other major group with serious pull and money and file lawsuits against the marginalization of the voices of many, many Americans.

    This needs to stop NOW!

    This is a total disgrace that in the 21st century we have Jim Crow garbage being put forth and supported in such a blatant ..in your face ...FU...manner!

    As I am in an unaffected state (NY), I can only offer my support of the people who need to bring this fight to the courts!

    Never underestimate stupid. Stupid is how reTHUGlicans win!

    by Mannie on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 12:47:15 PM PST

    •  It's perfectly legal. Two states do it already. (0+ / 0-)

      Intolerance betrays want of faith in one's cause. - Gandhi

      by SpamNunn on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 01:18:07 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  But how are those districts drawn? (2+ / 0-)

        The gerrymandering of the districts in VA shows the true intentions of marginalizing the votes of minorities and this to me is a voting rights/civil rights action that needs to be brought before the courts!

        How are the districts in those 2 states drawn?  That is a question I would look into before using those 2 states as an excuse/reason to not fight this!

        Never underestimate stupid. Stupid is how reTHUGlicans win!

        by Mannie on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 01:37:44 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Much of VA is still subject to the Voting Rights (0+ / 0-)

          Act, so that argument doesn't wash.  

          Check here as to how ME draws its boundaries.  Fairer than most:

          http://redistricting.lls.edu/...

          Follow the link for NE.

          Intolerance betrays want of faith in one's cause. - Gandhi

          by SpamNunn on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 02:00:46 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Maine and Nebraska draw their lines like most... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          LilithGardener

          other states. The State Legislature is in charge of drawing and approving the lines. And Republicans were in charge of both states in 2011 when redistricting was done (technically NE legislature is non-partisan, I know, but considering what they did with the plan you can't argue which way they lean).

           It's hard to argue Maine's CD's are unfair, it's a north-south split, and considering Republicans drew them and Democrats keep winning them, no one is protesting the fact that they split their EVs by CD.

           Nebraska is a little different, in the past, A democrat could win CD 2 (which used to be mostly Omaha). This round, the state changed the line to bring more conservatives from the suburbs into CD 2, making it much harder for a DEM to win.

           But no one will go to court over 1 EV, so the system is accepted in these states. You could say it's highly unlikely a candidate would ever receive fewer than 50% of the EVs if they won the popular vote. The backlash here is against larger swing-states proposing exactly that it would be ok to give a majority of EVs to a candidate who doesn't win the popular vote.

      •  That it is being done (0+ / 0-)

        Does not in itself make it legal. As far as I know, no court has actually upheld it in those two states.

    •  What people need to effin do (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Mannie, rtaylor352

      Is never let 2010 happen again GOTV like mad, every time. And for the pros, stop being Repub lite. With this staring him in the face, Reid still rolls over. I guess they really don't want an energized base.

      I STILL want to see Mitt's taxes.

      by Van Buren on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 01:43:13 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  A lawsuit is coming, I feel sure. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Mannie, LilithGardener

      For if there is a sin against life, it consists perhaps not so much in despairing of life as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this life. - Albert Camus

      by Anne Elk on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 02:19:51 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  As true then as now (17+ / 0-)
    "Why reasonable people go stark raving mad when anything involving a Negro comes up, is something I don’t pretend to understand."  ~ Atticus Finch

    Hobbs: "How come we play war and not peace?" Calvin: "Too few role models."

    by BOHICA on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 12:47:39 PM PST

  •  This will be (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rbird, oxfdblue, Captain Pants, Mannie

    This will be about as successful as the last GOP suppress the vote maneuvers.  The bad press alone will kill them.  

    •  I'm not so sure ... (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Mannie, Aspe4, malharden, cybersaur

      This whole effort in multiple states seems to be largely flying under the radar, at least as far as mainstream press coverage goes.

      I'm not at all convinced they won't get away with it.

      “What’s the use of having developed a science well enough to make predictions if, in the end, all we’re willing to do is stand around and wait for them to come true?” - Sherwood Rowland

      by jrooth on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 12:56:59 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Exactly right (0+ / 0-)

        They got away with it to keep the House. There is absolutely no reason to think that doing the same thing for the presidency would be any less successful.

        +++ The law is a weapon used to bludgeon us peasants into submission. It is not to be applied to the monied elite.

        by cybersaur on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 05:32:29 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Welcome back 3/5's of a person voting distribution (9+ / 0-)

    Racists fucks.

    The Republican party has become the politburo of capitalism. It seeks to direct the direction this country is going NO MATTER WHAT WE THE PEOPLE THINK.

    by tarminian on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 12:48:40 PM PST

  •  Aren't we forgetting (5+ / 0-)

    the redistricting surreptitiously passed by the Va. Senate on MLK-inauguration day?  

    Right now, the heat needs to be kept up on that, which will have pretty dire results, if it passes the Va. House, gets signed, and gets upheld by the courts.  I'm afraid it will slip by in the night, if it isn't kept in the spotlight.  Don't know if it can be stopped, but it shouldn't be forgotten.

    •  They have the votes. (0+ / 0-)

      Spotlight doesn't help here.

      The strategy needs to be to find a swing district in the state, get a dem elected there and reverse the measure....but it will take years to do.

      "I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany." - Ron Burgundy

      by malharden on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 01:18:41 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  They're chickening out on this one (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Mannie, seriously70, LilithGardener

        because it looks so bad.  There's absolutely no downside to continue making it clear that this isn't the only power grab they're engaged in.  And there is a downside to just saying, "The hell with it."  Seems like there may be a plausible legal argument against it (even assuming it will get passed and signed), and believe it or not, judges pay attention to how people are viewing things.

  •  come on... these guys aren't racist (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    milton333, mwm341

    NOT!

    __

    and on the whole reapportionment thing

    go ahead bastard govs in pa and fla and virginia, etc..
    go on and rig the ec

    and when the loser of the next presidential election
    ends up with 5million more votes than the winner.....??

    rest assured, there'll be a damn revolution in the streets.
    and we'll be coming for you.

    every adult is responsible for every child

    by ridemybike on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 12:49:41 PM PST

  •  one person one vote (9+ / 0-)


    is soooo unfair to those who want more votes !

    "Kossacks are held to a higher standard. Like Hebrew National hot dogs." - blueaardvark

    by louisev on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 12:49:46 PM PST

    •  The Banana Republicans (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      LilithGardener, cybersaur, mwm341

      This Makes My Blood Boil.  For a state senator to come out and say they want to make individual's votes in the country be worth more than those in the city is actually shocking.  How can the guy show his face in public?  I guess I should appreciate that he just made it a lot easier for the federal Justice Department to come down on this shit show for Voting Rights Act violation.

      •  yup (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        LilithGardener, mwm341


        I think Virginia is one of those 'watch' areas, too, where due to poll taxing in its history they have particular vigilance in elections.  Might be wrong: I'm new here.

        "Kossacks are held to a higher standard. Like Hebrew National hot dogs." - blueaardvark

        by louisev on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 04:00:40 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Oh the laughter! It hurts! (0+ / 0-)
        he just made it a lot easier for the federal Justice Department to come down on this shit show for Voting Rights Act violation.
        As if we had a Justice Department.
        We have a college kid, whistleblower; medical marijuana patient prosecution department. Justice went the way of democracy when King George was annoited by the Supremes back in 2000.

        +++ The law is a weapon used to bludgeon us peasants into submission. It is not to be applied to the monied elite.

        by cybersaur on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 05:36:14 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Governor McDonnell is against it (8+ / 0-)

    according to his spokesman.

    Well that ENDS that in both Virginia and Florida.

    We have to work on Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, and Wisconsin.

    President Obama, January 9, 2012: "Change is hard, but it is possible. I've Seen it. I've Lived it."

    by Drdemocrat on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 12:50:06 PM PST

    •  In Ohio could such a proposed law be overturned (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Mannie, grrr

      the way the anti-union bill was?

      "They will not collect a ransom in exchange for not crashing the American economy. The full faith and credit of the United States of America is not a bargaining chip."

      by TofG on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 12:56:15 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Not in Ohio... (0+ / 0-)

        You bet it could be tossed in a voter referendum just like SB 5 / Issue 2 and the GOP here knows it.  They won't touch this issue fearing a huge backlash in the 2014 election...James, Columbus, OH

    •  He will sign it though. nt (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      grrr, CrissieP, cybersaur

      "I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany." - Ron Burgundy

      by malharden on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 01:19:27 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •   he wants to run for president (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      LilithGardener

      He doesn't want to be tagged a cheater plus he would probably win the state if he is the nominee or on the ticket.
      Any place republicans do this will backfire on them for sure.
      Except for MI and Pa, Ohio, Florida and Va should all be competitive in a presidential election.

    •  This was defeated in PA last year so I'm surprised (0+ / 0-)

      that this is coming up again, especially after Democrats made gains in the State Senate. I can't imagine this going anywhere this year knock on wood especially since Gov. Corbett is incredibly unpopular and running for re-election next year. Of course I could be wrong, but I like our chances.

      22, PA-17, Democrat, movie lover — "You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough." - Mae West

      by GReen4994 on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 04:57:04 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I know you're not gullible (0+ / 0-)

      Don't ever forget- republicans lie.
      Governor transvaginal ultrasound would sign this in a fetal heartbeat!

      +++ The law is a weapon used to bludgeon us peasants into submission. It is not to be applied to the monied elite.

      by cybersaur on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 05:39:11 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  The votes of the many (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mannie, Aspe4, MKinTN, Born in NOLA

    Outweigh the votes of the few
    Or the one

    Sincerely,
    Spock

    P.S. Only Nixon could go to China

  •  :) (0+ / 0-)

    /Oh, heavens! If every person's vote counts the same, then places with more people will get more votes! You know… urban areas./

    The Republicans must be stuyding demographics-

    they can still win the culture war if they give all white people more voting status than everyone else! yes thats the ticket!

    Republicans are penny wise and pound foolish.

    by Krush on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 12:51:27 PM PST

  •  Can someone tell me (0+ / 0-)

    how this would be legal?  Any state can divvy up their electoral votes however they want?  

    "Never before in all our history have these forces been so united against one candidate as they stand today. They are unanimous in their hate for me--and I welcome their hatred." Franklin D. Roosevelt

    by djbender on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 12:52:25 PM PST

    •  Yes. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Aspe4

      See NE, ME.

    •  Almost (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      MPociask, milton333, Aspe4, djbender, Egalitare

      The states determine how electoral votes are awarded.  Maine and Nebraska already award electoral votes based on the winners of their Congressional districts.

      •  So (0+ / 0-)

        if a state decides it wants to give all their electoral votes based on the total number of redheads who voted for a particular candidate, that would be legal?  

        "Never before in all our history have these forces been so united against one candidate as they stand today. They are unanimous in their hate for me--and I welcome their hatred." Franklin D. Roosevelt

        by djbender on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 12:59:02 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  That is why I said almost (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          djbender, David in NY

          The provisions of the 14th Amendment and Bill of Rights apply, so there are some limits.  

          It is pretty clear however, that allocating electoral votes by Congressional district does not violate those limits.

          •  Addicted to power (0+ / 0-)

            Desperate ploys rarely work.  For their own sake, they better hope this doesn't work.  The way the demographics are rapidly changing, I can see this act of desperation be the move that  moves the Tea Party (I don't even bother calling them Republicans anymore) into the trash bin of history.  

            "Never before in all our history have these forces been so united against one candidate as they stand today. They are unanimous in their hate for me--and I welcome their hatred." Franklin D. Roosevelt

            by djbender on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 01:45:18 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Wrong (0+ / 0-)

            So you are saying that if they created congressional districts based on redheads like the example above, then apportioning EC votes by those districts wouldn't violate equal protection?

        •  Gerrymandering is largely legal. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          djbender, Overseas, NancyK

          That is , everyone gets a vote in an election whose outcome has been decided when the map is drawn. We just gerrymandered the shit out of Illinois and I finally have a dem rep.

          That's not even "gun control". It's more like "massacre control".

          by Inland on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 01:13:44 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Yep. (4+ / 0-)

      From Article II Section 1 of the Constitution:

      Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress
      (emphasis mine)

      “What’s the use of having developed a science well enough to make predictions if, in the end, all we’re willing to do is stand around and wait for them to come true?” - Sherwood Rowland

      by jrooth on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 01:00:08 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  And we call this democracy? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        LilithGardener

        Far from it.

        "Never before in all our history have these forces been so united against one candidate as they stand today. They are unanimous in their hate for me--and I welcome their hatred." Franklin D. Roosevelt

        by djbender on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 01:04:10 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  That's what the (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          LilithGardener

          Republicans have always, annoyingly, said:  "It's not a democracy, it's a republic."

        •  True. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Van Buren, LilithGardener

          Our "founding fathers" were not nearly as devoted to the idea of democracy as we like to think they were.

          “What’s the use of having developed a science well enough to make predictions if, in the end, all we’re willing to do is stand around and wait for them to come true?” - Sherwood Rowland

          by jrooth on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 01:35:00 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  It's not at all democratic (0+ / 0-)

          Many people in this country (especially minorities) live in places where the only votes they will ever place that matter worth a damn are the ones for their Senators -- and there are thinkers within the Republican party hoping fervently they can take that away again too.  Everything else is local machine/gerrymander/electoral college irrelevancy.  

          And then people get chastised for not bothering to vote.

      •  What happens when "such Manner" conflicts (0+ / 0-)

        with the Equal Protection provision of the 14th Amendment?

        I recall in the early 60s the U. S. Supreme Court ruled out redistricting tricks that had the rural areas of Arizona dominating the urban areas in the Legislature. That all went away and now, it's the other way around.

        Just askin' -- is there potential Supreme Court fodder here if that clause in Art. II Sec. 1 is twisted to the point where it violates the "one person, one vote" provisions decided under the 14th Amendment?

        Everybody loves free speech until they hear some of it.

        by dobleremolque on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 01:42:04 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  There would be but this doesn't conflict with it (0+ / 0-)

          as the Congressional districts are equal in population when redrawn every decade.   If that is sufficient for electing Congressmembers, it is hard to seriously argue that it fails for electing electors.

  •  Someone on another site (13+ / 0-)

    was making the 'you city folk out vote us poor country folk and take away our voice' crap argument.  What they want if for the votes of rural (read conservative, white) folks to count more than the votes of urban (progressive, diverse) folks.  

    One man one vote until they can no longer get enough votes to win, then they cheat.  

    Every time I think they have sunk as low as they can, they go lower.

  •  This is contemptible and dangerous (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Jon Says

    but probably not racist.

  •  Districts aren't people. (8+ / 0-)

    I remember when Missouri pulled something like this with the puppy mill law. A majority of the state voted it into effect.

    Then the politicians over turned it. Why? Because apparently the fact that St. Louis heavily supported the ban was a problem because so many smaller areas felt they weren't represented.

    Except they WERE represented. There's not as many of them. And if that's a problem to you, then you just don't get how voting is supposed to work. I couldn't believe that was an acceptable argument to anyone.

  •  Despite rampant guns thinning the urban (0+ / 0-)

    population, the Repubs still need to find another way to minimize the effect of lots of urban votes.  They're just not thinning out fast enough, damnit!  

    Buy Aldus Shrugged : The Antidote to Ayn Rand, and tear Ayn and the GOP new orifices. ALL ROYALTIES BETWEEN NOW AND JANUARY 31, DONATED TO THIS SITE, DAILYKOS!! @floydbluealdus1

    by Floyd Blue on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 12:53:56 PM PST

  •  I'm surprised how quickly it's backfiring. Va. and (3+ / 0-)

    Pa. governors may find they're writing their political obituatries (and potentially also Ohio) if they push this scheme. It will almost certainly arouse voter ire the way voter suppression efforts did.

    "They will not collect a ransom in exchange for not crashing the American economy. The full faith and credit of the United States of America is not a bargaining chip."

    by TofG on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 12:54:58 PM PST

  •  Kenneth Blackwell and his partner in crime (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dobber, stevenaxelrod, Mannie, milton333

    want to take the electoral college scam on the road to all 50 states according to a story printed an hour or two ago by The Atlantic.  That of course would have put Mitt Romney in the White House had it been the law of the land in November.

  •  Their will? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dustb, stevenaxelrod, LilithGardener

    If they continue to push such a naked partisan grab, independents and Democrats will crush them in 2014. And I mean crush them, b/c the indys will see this for what it is, a subversion of democracy.

  •  Smells like a whole lot of desparation to me. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LilithGardener

    This election proved again that the demographic shifts in this country and time is not on the side of the GOP.

    So rather than examining what they could do to appeal to these growing demographic groups, they would rather game the system in their favor.

    It's like plugging your finger in a dam that is starting to develop leaks. You might be able to hold back the water for a while but eventually the dam will break. And then you are dead (or extinct).

    Or as Boehner so eloquently stated the other date - relegated to the dustbin of history.

    It takes time to practice generosity, but being generous is the best use of our time. - Thich Nhat Hanh.

    by Frank In WA on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 12:58:20 PM PST

  •  So back to old 3/5th rule, eh? Bad news Virginia! (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dustb, Mannie, cybersaur, mwm341
  •  So glad I live in MD! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mannie, Aspe4

    Our Gov trying to expand voting rights! I swear, elections do have consequences!

  •  I like that. It's the 3/5 rule. (7+ / 0-)

    Only now people who live in "urban" areas are the slaves.

    I just want to say this.  While arguing with a family member about evil New Yorkers, I said to him: "You do realize there are more people living in New York City than the entire state of Tennessee, right?  There are more New Yorkers buried and/or cremated in New York City than there have ever been ...name 4 southern states." The Republican Party is for the most part a regional party and Southerners have always been outnumbered.  

    Now Republicans are pulling out the playbook trying to figure out what was done the last time someone needed more bodies when counting.  Since we're re-doing things why do we only have 435 House members?  We had about 100 million people in 1911.  We're 3 times that size now.  Given our current population we either need more seats OR we need pull some seats from these rural states.  Like we fluctuate the electoral numbers based on population.

    LOL.  Sounds to me that these "urban" areas need more House members.

  •  Calling this racism is a very poor use of the term (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SpamNunn, Jon Says, Subterranean

    and undermines real racism.  This is called strategy like it or not.  

    From NPR:

    "Currently, every state but Maine and Nebraska awards all its electoral votes to the statewide popular vote winner. (Those two states have systems that would allocate electors based on congressional district results, but so far neither has split their electoral college votes because a single candidate has swept the state.)

    If changes such as the Virginia bill had been in place last year, Obama would have won far fewer electoral votes. In Virginia, he would have taken four electoral votes rather than all 13."

    http://www.npr.org/...

    There is nothing illegal about this and dems can do it as well.   One thing it does do is force the candidates to concentrate not just on swing states but many states.  I think it is a significant improvement in the electoral college system.  

  •  If Anyone tries to tell you... (6+ / 0-)

    that Republicans are trying to broaden their appeal to minority voters, just ask them to explain Virginia.

  •  I thank this diarist and others (5+ / 0-)

    for staying on top of "cute" Republican shenanigans to rig upcoming elections. Gee, if your party is on such hard times, could you just get more people to vote for you, by coming up with some core message besides austerity and exclusion? Nooooo.

    They say sunlight is the best disinfectant. I believe it.

    Thanks so much.

    It's here they got the range/ and the machinery for change/ and it's here they got the spiritual thirst. --Leonard Cohen

    by karmsy on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 01:12:49 PM PST

  •  good point...however... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    milton333, jeopardydd

    ...if  this is as you have depicted it...then, wouldn't it stand to reason that the current Congressional Districts are, in fact, in direct violation of the Voting Rights Act?

    If so...where is the Justice Department? Not only with regard to the future efforts to tie electoral votes to Congressional Districts but with regard to current Congressional Districts themselves?

  •  THANK YOU, and you're missing one thing... (6+ / 0-)

    I have been howling about this on my Facebook page since it happened. (Sorry, I don't come 'round these parts much lately.)

    You are right it's ugly and flatly racist.

    What might be less obvious to the national DKos audience is that this behavior really isn't new to VA.

    I can sincerely say that having a black POTUS has nothing to do with it. They've been trying to neuter VA's "urban" areas for decades.

    The politics of VA are such that it's most affluent area (by a mile) is Northern VA, which has several of the country's richest counties. Northern VA is also one of the most diverse populations in the country. The state legislature has cheerfully collected our melting pot of tax revenue and "redistributed our wealth" back out to the poorer counties, populated by red blooded 'mericans who cheerfully cling to their god, guns and FEDERAL FARM SUBSIDIES.

    Richmond has robbed us blind for decades. The racial issues exist, but they aren't recent.

    "I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany." - Ron Burgundy

    by malharden on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 01:15:32 PM PST

  •  And what's the Nationwide Electoral Vote (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mannie, Subterranean

    Initiative?   A plan the Republicans see as an effort to insure that the Democratic constituencies of urban poor and coastal rich dictate to the rest of the country who is President .   The Electoral College was a bargain made with the small states to make sure that won't happen, either.  

    Look at this map (a legislative district by district depiction of who won the last Presidential Election), and tell me if it appears to be fair.   Would it be any fairer if only the blue areas got to call the tune as to who is President?  

    Call it "racist", if you want, but what they are proposing is perfectly permissible under the Constitution.   The overreaching of the Nationwide Electoral Vote Initiative effort sparked this backlash.   Now we have to deal with it.  The Founders got it right.  We shouldn't tamper with a system that is fair to both the large and the small states.  

    Photobucket

    Intolerance betrays want of faith in one's cause. - Gandhi

    by SpamNunn on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 01:16:17 PM PST

    •  Gosh! So one person one vote is not fair, (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Mannie, dustb, cpresley, cybersaur, schnecke21

      but one person+five acres =the only vote that counts is fair!!!

      It's *Gandhi*, not Ghandi

      by poco on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 01:37:58 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I'm curious what evidence there is (0+ / 0-)

      for this:

      The overreaching of the Nationwide Electoral Vote Initiative effort sparked this backlash.
      (I've never been a fan of the idea, but I'm not at all clear on there being any connection to this Republican effort.)

      “What’s the use of having developed a science well enough to make predictions if, in the end, all we’re willing to do is stand around and wait for them to come true?” - Sherwood Rowland

      by jrooth on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 01:44:14 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Do some reading on the subject. It's always cited (0+ / 0-)

        as a reason, with the allocation by CD being cited as an easier counter to that effort, because it's Constitutional and in practice in two states already (ME and NE)

        Intolerance betrays want of faith in one's cause. - Gandhi

        by SpamNunn on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 01:55:09 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Are you counting cows or voters? The Senate (6+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Mannie, dustb, CrissieP, cpresley, cybersaur, poco

      protects small states from being plowed under by large states by giving them 2 Sens in the upper chamber with equal power to 2 Sens from bigger states.

      All Americans vote for the president now, not just propertied white men. And many of us live in multiple states during our working lives.

      Weighting votes base on geography instead of people is a concept like the 3/5s of a person scam. And that slave didn't get a vote the congressional district he/she was property in got the vote.

      All citizens now can vote for the president. All the rigging and weighting of voting should be in our nations rear view mirror, like slavery and white male privilege.
       

      •  Read the Constitution again. (0+ / 0-)

        Intolerance betrays want of faith in one's cause. - Gandhi

        by SpamNunn on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 02:31:06 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I know the college is in the Constitution. So was (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          cybersaur

          the 3/5s of a person rule and a limited franchise. It is the 21st not the 18th, and allowing a minority to decide the presidency based on geography is not acceptable. And certainly if that minority largely represents one racial group in our diverse modern nation.

          We decide Congressional representation based on population, The Senate by state, why shouldn't we elect the president, our only national elective office, by popular vote? We have constantly in our history expanded the vote to make it more inclusive. If the question is going to be forced on the nation as to wether we allow a minority of citizens to elect the president rather than a majority, surely in the 21st century we will opt for rule by the many not the few. Because a voter lives near more people is not a reasonable reason to dilute her vote for national office.

          The new 3/5ters are only opening another can of whoop ass on themselves justt as the original 3/5ters did.

          This is a naked attempt to rig presidential elections and you know it, and so does everyone else who learns of it.

          •  Enough of the 3/5th crap, please. (0+ / 0-)

            The reason for that had little to do with slavery, and lot with achieving legislative balance.  We amended the Constitution to account for the Reconstruction Amendments.  If you don't like the Electoral College, try to garner support to amend the Constitution.  

            Since you like fractions, all you need is 2/3 of both houses of Congress and 3/4 of the States to agree with you.  Good luck.

            PS:  I like things the way they are.  I don't support the CD apportionment method or the National Popular Vote Initiative.  

            Intolerance betrays want of faith in one's cause. - Gandhi

            by SpamNunn on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 04:30:48 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I agree, enough of this 3/5s crap. But the hell (0+ / 0-)

              with please I think we ought to demand it.

              Next you'll tell me the civil war was about states rights and not massive investment in slaves by southern planter oligarchs. And that they only wanted to be left alone and didn't want to expand their wretched economics and brutality into suitable western territories along with Mexico, Cuba, and S. America.

              I also agree that changing the Constitution and getting 2/3rds of the congress and 1/4 of the states is not possible in these contentious times. What I think will happen is a massive push back resulting in the inability of a repug to get elected governor in any blue states where this election theft is being attempted. This is going to blow up in the faces of the national white peoples party, formerly known as the repuglian party and threaten a lot of ambitious pug govs who want a national political future. The recent voter suppression efforts by the pugs has made this a very hot issue that is going to inflame the communities and voters who are targeted by this scheme. Don't expect calm debate in the face of this latest shit heel move by the crazy racist and rich guy club. The pugs are trying to 3/5s the opposition voters instead of adjusting to and accepting what the nation is becoming.

              Declaring war on the future is not a long term winning strategy.  

            •  VA = 3/5 (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Grabber by the Heel, psnyder

              The Virginia proposal is designed to benefit rural voters, but only three fifths of all other Persons.

              +++ The law is a weapon used to bludgeon us peasants into submission. It is not to be applied to the monied elite.

              by cybersaur on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 05:55:23 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

      •  Amen - that map looks perfectly reasonable to me - (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Grabber by the Heel, poco

        if you are counting people who live in the areas and not blades of grass.  I also don't see an initiative that attempts to institute a popular vote as overreach.  I'm actually not sure that I am actually in favor of a popular vote for Prez, but I certainly think it is reasonable.

    •  Need Every State (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Grabber by the Heel

      So do you think that California and Oregon and Washington and New York and Illinois (all predictably loyal Democratic strongholds) will do this? If not, then the whole 262-273 argument is a huge red herring.  The numbers do not add up.  All those red districts in those states can just be colored back in as blue.

      What these Virginia GOP idiots do not recognize is that right now Presidential campaigns spend millions of dollars in Virginia trying to get all of the electoral votes.  If you split the state by district, it becomes a series of "safe" mini-states.  No one will spend a dime advertising there.  You may have one competitive district in all of Virginia.  I know in Minnesota we would have maybe 2 of 8 competitive districts.  

      What you would end up doing is driving the money to "winner take all" states.  So if you are Wisconsin or Michigan or Colorado, you REALLY want some of the other swing states to stop being swing states.  You become the entire focus of the election.  From a financial standpoint, it is a no brainer.

    •  But, but, but ... (0+ / 0-)

      more CDs show up as red because the Repugs in Republican-controlled states have so viciously gerrymandered those districts.  It doesn't mean more people voted for Romney, just that Dems have been relegated to a few tightly packed urban districts.
      Here in PA., it's hard to see the Republican vote suppressors can be stopped in the short term now that they've taken care of the gerrymandering.  
      The Civil Rights Act doesn't apply, most CDs and state legislative districts are safe for the GOP into perpetuity and even if we vote Gov. Tom Corbett out of office in 2014, the damage will have been done and would be hard to undo by a Dem governor with a Republican-controlled legislature.

      Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please -- Mark Twain

      by OnePingOnly on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 04:06:42 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Can you back that statement up? I think not. (0+ / 0-)
        more CDs show up as red because the Repugs in Republican-controlled states have so viciously gerrymandered those districts.

        Intolerance betrays want of faith in one's cause. - Gandhi

        by SpamNunn on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 04:33:09 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  BS (0+ / 0-)

      "The overreaching of the Nationwide Electoral Vote Initiative effort sparked this backlash."

      Evidence? No, considering the timing, the locations & the instigators of these efforts, it's far more plausible to think that this is just a naked attempt to game the system for partisan advantage, an effort to lock in minority rule.

      "The Founders got it right."  

      In what respect? As a curb on the democratic will? Our political evolution for more than 200 years has been toward more democracy, not less - surely not "what the founders intended". The EC is not a deliberative body: its electors do nothing but a pro forma casting of votes. It does one of two things: affirms or overrules the popular vote. Nothing more. How is overruling the popular vote, as happened in 2000 (with tragic consequences for our country), EVER fair? Or democratic? No, it's inherently undemocratic. Not just that - it's downright reactionary. What this says, essentially, is that if the writers of the 1787 constitution (politicians, not messengers of god) were skeptical about & fearful of democracy, then we must be too. This is nothing more than Bork/Scalia "original intent"/"strict constructionist" nonsense.

      "We shouldn't tamper with a system that is fair to both the large and the small states."  

      So fairness to "the states" is more important than fairness to the voters? Does on really suggest that we shouldn't "tamper" with a system that is so prone to manipulation, as these coordinated Repubican efforts make clear?

      No, we must all loudly call these proposals what they are - a frontal assault on democratic governance. Spare me all that horseshit about "what the founders intended".

  •  I Thought Haley Barbour & Bobby Jindahl Told Them (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mannie

    to "stop acting stupid"?  Mr. Carrico has only been in office since 2012.  It looks like he's trying to make a name for himself by moving from the back bench to a front row seat.

    Who knew?  If you are unfortunate enough to live in a big city in Virginia according to Mr. Carrico, your vote is hurting his more rural constituent's feelings.  

    So that means the electoral college needs to be changed in Virginia.  Hmmmmm.......interesting.  

  •  Right now, I can think of no worse enemy of....... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    akeitz, post rational, cybersaur

    democracy than Reince Priebus (fun fact, take the vowels out of his name to see what he stands for).

     I don't know if the Koch Bros or ALEC are supporting these movements but it would not surprise me in the least.

  •  One election is all it will take (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CrissieP, bartcopfan

    to have an amendment drafted to repeal the Electoral College forever. The problem is that the constitution unwittingly created a system with more power granted to less populous states than any of them could have imagined when they created our system to get the votes of Rhode Island, Delaware and a couple other very small states. We are now stuck with many small states whose population is less than a medium sized town in California, Texas or New York. What it really boils down to is the idea of one man, one vote and whether or not we believe in that idea enough to make it a reality. The Senate is now completely stymied by minority rule, the House is controlled by a minority party and the SCOTUS is filled to the brim with jurists from the minority party. Having a republic is one thing, having a nation that believes in democracy is quite another beast indeed.

    Do facts matter anymore?

    by Sinan on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 01:49:24 PM PST

  •  The REality is (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Subterranean

    That this is racist because Democrats gave the Republicans the idea how to do it.  It was the insistence in the 1980's on these stupid majority-minority districts and the dream that housing would be more integrated as time went on that is responsible for this.  The reality is that had Democrats not fallen into the Republicans' trap, this would never have happened.  No court in any state is going to allow the horrid looking districts that Republicans have used in vairous states to take relatively evenly balanced states like Florida, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia and Wisconsin and turn them into 20 plus seat advantages.  The only way they do this is by packing minorities into districts.  Yes, I know, this was done to give folks a voice in the US Congress, but let's face it, this has significantly hurt Democrats in the US House.  It allows the Republicans to pack districts when Democrats are either in favor of "non-partisan" commissions or won't do what Republicans will do.  The reality is that is minority-majority districts also required that the districts be compact, this problem wouldn't be happening and Democrats would be well on their way to being a long-term majority party instead of just beginning.

    Demographics are changing, in the Democrats favor.  As long as we have these minority-majority districts, it won't change fast enough.  With deomgraphic changes and changing Congressional lines each year, even with compact districts and without trying to draw majority-minority districts, there will be more such districts in the future.

    But, no, Democrats were too happy to pander to their constituents of color in the 1980's and come up with majority-minority districts which screwed them to the wall in the long term.

    This is not the old south where there was never any redistricting and people of color were required to live in certain undesirable counties.  Districts change every 10 years.

    So, look at what's happened to women in Congress.  The number has exploded because we are a more enlightened and diverse and accepting community.  Same with gays.  

    Get rid of majority-minority districts they are doing nothing but keeping the Democratic Party in the US House down, because Republicans know how to exploit this and Democrats can't.

  •  I can't stand the rural attitude that freaks out.. (4+ / 0-)

    about getting outvoted by urban residents. I deal with this in Oregon, where Portland and other cities account for 75% of the state's population.

     Yet, I hear a voter from the country complain that Portland always gets who/what they want in state elections. Then I just tell them "There's 600,000 people living in Portland. Do you think your vote counts more than one of theirs?"

     Funny thing, that's always when the subject gets changed.

  •  I take this threat very seriously. (5+ / 0-)

    This scheme is a grave threat to democracy itself. It would permanently enshrine minority rule, making the US resemble the British "rotten borough" system before the passage of the Reform Act. And it would withstand court challenge. Maybe Republicans can be shamed out of this, but I doubt it, so we must have contingency plans. Of course, we must fight vigorously in 2014 and 2016, making this threat a central election issue. Perhaps at last this will wake up many people to the authoritarian movement the Republican Party and its media propaganda arm have become. But if that fails, and Repugs win the White House while losing badly in the popular vote, we must go further:
    1. Boycott the inaugural, except for protest demonstrations.
    2. Enlist every Democratic group behind a general strike and nonviolent civil disobedience.  A tax strike would also be warranted. We will need a plan to provide food, medical care and other basic needs to people during nationwide disruptions. We must anticipate armed violence against us by the right-wing militias. This will take courage. A rigged election system must not be allowed to stand.
      I've had plenty of experience in election campaigns, but none in direct action/civil disobedience, beyond carrying a few signs in tranquil demonstrations. We must find people who know how to get started. (On this OWS and mainstream Dems could surely make common cause, and we might even find a few Tea Partiers on our side if they take the unaccustomed step of thinking things through. A rigged election cannot be allowed to stand, or the American experiment in democratic government is finished.

    "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, it expects what never was and never will be." - Thomas Jefferson

    by Blue Boomer on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 01:54:10 PM PST

  •  Why stop this logic at districts within states? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mannie, Subterranean, schnecke21

    Let's just say that Wyoming, being the very sparsely populated state that it is, is very sad that someplace like California gets so many more Electoral Votes than they do, so as a result they feel like "why bother voting?".  So let's have Wyoming get 125 Electoral Votes.  Wyoming no longer sad.  Problem solved!

  •  Obama voters would have gotten 3/5 of the (7+ / 0-)

    weight of Republican voters, very interesting  to say the least.

    Obama Would Have Received 3/5th Of VA Popular Vote Share Under GOP Plan

    Paul Bibeau, stumbled on a statistical oddity embedded in a Republican bill in Virginia that would divide the state's electoral votes by congressional district. Had the bill been law in 2012, President Obama would have received only four out of thirteen electoral votes despite winning 51 percent of the popular vote.

    Which is to say, Obama voters would have received almost exactly 3/5 of the electoral vote compared to their actual population -- 30.7 percent of the electoral vote over 51 percent of the popular vote. The coincidence recalls one of American history's -- and especially Virginia's -- most infamous numbers, the three-fifths compromise that counted slaves as a fraction of a person when calculating a state's federal representation.

    -1.63/ -1.49 "Speaking truth to power" (with snark of course)!

    by dopper0189 on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 02:08:46 PM PST

  •  its about time (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    post rational

    citizens of the us start holding the bigots in the gop and their racist supporters accountable and if not supporting the dems at least stop voting for the party of fascism and hatred, this party needs to be eliminated from our political scene as soon as possible so america can restore its goal of life and liberty for all not just the white bigots in america.

  •  If this system were in place (0+ / 0-)

    It is unlikely that one candidate would win the statewide popular vote by a wide margin and get a small percentage of the states EV's.  Because,...after seeing that their votes don't matter as much, this bill would depress urban turnout, which would influence statewide numbers.  

    This is perfectly legal, and not offensive in principle (aren't congressional districts required by law to be relatively equal in total population within a state?).  In practice, though, since Dems tend to congregate in urban areas, it's a real disadvantage to Dems.

    It's not racist, though, at least not in conception and intent (maybe in practical application).  The GOP would gladly accept black voters putting their candidates over the top.  They just aren't going to change their agenda or conceded to them on their issues to get them.

    A republican friend of mine said right after the election:  "We need to fix things with the latinos and single women.  If we soften our rhetoric and policy a little (and stop talking about rape and contraception), there is no reason a lot of them can't be republicans.  This stuff doesn't cost us any money.  But, the blacks will never vote for us unless we give them something.  And, that is a bridge too far, so we'd better find out how to win without them."

  •  Sounds like a challenge to "1 man, 1 vote" (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mwm341
    “The last election, constituents were concerned that it didn’t matter what they did, that more densely populated areas were going to outvote them,” he said.
    "One man, one vote."

    "Push the button, Max!" Jack Lemmon as Professor Fate, The Great Race

    by bartcopfan on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 02:44:00 PM PST

    •  yeah, I was thinking about that, because I (0+ / 0-)

      remember when the Supremes decided that in the 1960s. So don't the Congressional districts have to contain the same number of voters?

      Those who quote Santayana are condemned to repeat him. Me

      by Mark B on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 04:14:02 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Pocket boroughs= the good ol' days? (0+ / 0-)

    Wait. Weren't the Whigs >against that?
    Do we have to go back that far?

  •  It should be noted (0+ / 0-)

    It should be noted the GOP has entered into the true realm of the losers.  

    Intelligent people, with an intent to win, change their ways to broaden their appeal.  

    Losers try to shave points, find more angles to shoot, lie, cheat, and steal in the hope it gives them an advantage.  They look for an edge instead of doing what's really needed.  

  •  Virginia; Wrong Again (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mwm341

        I'm bugging out of this odd "Old Dominion". It's been too wrong for too long.  Enough is enough.
         I've called it home for 45 years and it has always been a love hate relationship. Love the land and the people but can't stand the governance.  What brought it to a head was a sharp disagreement I had with TPTB over one of my constitutional rights.  It wasn't enough to move me, geographically, until I got to thinking about some of the other things this State has been wrong about in the past.
         The short list starts with slavery and succession. Add in  post civil war segregation and laws that necessitated decisions like VA vs. Loving.  A few years latter it was "mass resistance" to segregated schools. Many towns and counties just shut down the schools rather than integrate. Now it's their recent attack on women s reproductive rights and this current attack on which votes count and those that don't.

    Enough is enough. I'm headed anywhere the sky and politics are blue.
      F U VA.  

    You're a mammal, listen to your body.

    by post rational on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 05:18:20 PM PST

  •  Plans For Teahadist Brownshirt Reign Of Terror? (0+ / 0-)

    It seems to me that the idea of stealing an election live on national television has to assume that the bold move will be enforced at the point of a gun, that they will be willing to kill people, and that they will keep killing people as long as it takes.

    Remember they have been saturated in conspiracy theories for decades and stories of an apocalyptic confrontation where they will have a bloody purge of the "dirty hippies" and their multicultural henchmen.   There's plenty of white supremacist fantasies about how they will use snipers to rake the neighborhoods of their critics, like the Balkans.  They've been arming themselves and rehearsing for years.

    There’s always free cheddar in a mousetrap, baby

    by bernardpliers on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 05:24:23 PM PST

  •  Effing Rethugs (0+ / 0-)

    May they all come down with the norovirus and spend the rest of the legislative session on the toilet.

    "Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

    by Diana in NoVa on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 05:28:20 PM PST

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