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Goposaur upside down
The immigration debate is exposing the fissures in the Republican Party more than any other debate has yet, between the Wall Street Journal, Karl Rove faction and the crazy teabagger Rush Limbaugh/Glenn Beck/Michelle Malkin crowd. For them, electoral politics takes second place to hating on brown people, apparently. It parallels, basically, the split between the Senate Republicans, who can't rely on extreme gerrymandering to keep their seats, and House Republicans, who can be crazy as they want to be. The results are, at the very least, fun to watch.

Take this from Limbaugh, at his meglomaniacal best.

In a sign of how divisive the issue has become among conservatives, Limbaugh said Monday that it was “up to me and Fox News” to stop a deal that would provide a path to citizenship to illegal immigrants unless they had been convicted of a major felony. But Limbaugh doubted that even Fox News had the backbone to join him in that crusade. “It’s up to me and Fox News, and I don’t think Fox News is that invested in this. I don’t think there’s any Republican opposition to this of any majority consequence or size,” Limbaugh said on his radio program.
He's not actually on his own, with Beck and Malkin both frothing at the mouth over the very idea of considering immigration reform. Malkin basically is calling for war against the Republican senators involved calling them "suicidal" and "self-deluded." They are, she says, "GOP illegal alien amnesty promoters" and "capitulationist Republicans."

Meanwhile, Rove, whose only job ever has been to try and get a permanent Republican majority, is sounding downright reasonable. He's calling the bipartisan proposal "a huge step forward." Now he's trying to show some distance between "mainstream" Republicans and the crazies, but this is the bed Rove made by appealing to the worst of the extremist base to grow his party. Welcome to your GOP, Karl. So far, Malkin hasn't called for his head on a spike, but that's coming.

Maybe the most entertaining spin on this comes from Peggy Noonan, who's looking really hard for the silver lining. She says that the intraparty fight is just proof that the party is still viable, because "[o]nly things that are alive have battles," then tries a headfake, saying this is really an American fight, and that the Democratic base has "mixed feelings," too. Nice try, Noonan. But she's only slightly less ridiculous than David Brooks, who's arguing that the GOP needs to split into two parties, so the moderates can do their own thing.

The GOP fight might not help us finally get to sane immigration policy in the short term, but it makes for some entertainment. And it might just be the fissure that finally cracks the party.

Please join with Daily Kos and Workers’ Voice by signing our petition supporting President Obama's call for comprehensive immigration reform that includes a path to citizenship.

Originally posted to Joan McCarter on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 07:58 AM PST.

Also republished by Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Maybe I'm getting too cynical (5+ / 0-)

    but I shudder to think what other deals might be lurking if the GOP all of a sudden gets reasonable about this issue.

    It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

    by War on Error on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 08:04:29 AM PST

  •  Brooks is just amazing (12+ / 0-)

    if the Democratic party agrees with him, that's proof that what we need is a new R party. Which doesn't exist.

    He can't bring himself to admit the nativists and anti everything crowd are simply not worthy of support (Richard Mourdoch, Todd Akin, Christine O'Donnell, Sara Palin, etc) and that firing Palin from Fox doesn't solve everything/anything.

    Meanwhile, the republican House is so broken it might take breaking the Hastert rule to do anything.

    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

    by Greg Dworkin on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 08:04:43 AM PST

    •  The thing is, nativism is in the DNA (10+ / 0-)

      of the Republican Party.  It was a major part of the original coalition (the Know-Nothings) and it has remained a strong part of it to this day.  That it has been ascendant should come as no surprise, given the demographic reality that the nativist base faces.  

    •  Brooks Is Still Polishing The Turd That Is The GOP (4+ / 0-)

      It's going to take more than marketing to get rid of that stink.

      There’s always free cheddar in a mousetrap, baby

      by bernardpliers on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 09:04:09 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Split the GOP (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SueDe, Possiamo, OleHippieChick, bythesea

      Because that is a sure way to increase your influence.

       That falls in the "tax beaks pay for themselves" and "cutting spending will increase jobs" category of absurdity.

      The Democrats create jobs. The Republicans create recessions.

      by Tuba Les on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 09:12:47 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Right you are, tuba. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Tuba Les

        Divide and conquer.  Unfortunately I don't think the GOP will take his sage advice.  Nobody pays much attention to him anymore except for entertainment purposes.  I wonder when the News Hour will catch on.

        "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

        by SueDe on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 09:20:47 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Wrong. It might be their only way forward. (0+ / 0-)

        GOP candidates may not be able to break from entrenched views of the Party without breaking from the Party and joining one who's views are far more acceptable to a majority of voters.  A new Party would take some time to get off the ground but the current Party is headed into the ground.  Eventually, a more Moderate GOP would get votes from the more extreme T's and they would start winning elections, again.  Further, the numbers from moderate voters who like fiscal conservatism might soon outweigh the numbers lost during the break-away period.  That would buoy the new GOP.  I think it's definitely an option for them.

        "When you think about the money spent/on defense by the government/& the weapons of destruction we've built/we're so sure that we need/then you think of the millions that money could feed/How long?" J Browne

        by rainmanjr on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 11:43:42 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  To Succeed (0+ / 0-)

          They will HAVE to use ideas that appeal to people now supporting Democrats. In a 3 way race two rightwing parties getting 30 percent each would lose to the party getting 40 percent.

          The Democrats create jobs. The Republicans create recessions.

          by Tuba Les on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 01:00:08 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  You're missing the element of time. (0+ / 0-)

            They would fail in the immediate but the GOP will survive and become viable within a few cycles.  That's what a split will achieve and why it's their only real hope.

            "When you think about the money spent/on defense by the government/& the weapons of destruction we've built/we're so sure that we need/then you think of the millions that money could feed/How long?" J Browne

            by rainmanjr on Mon Feb 04, 2013 at 11:05:46 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  the road they're on (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cocinero, rainmanjr

      I'm not sure what Brooks contends as I haven't read his bit, but the GOP has been headed for some kind of split since Newt was speaker.

      The establishment Rs can't/won't cut loose the loonies, since among their base, the loonies are the part that's growing - and what sets the table at the primaries.  So the disaffected ones either join the Dems, or the Paulistas, or find their own way with a new party.

      My only questions are which batch will hold onto the GOP moniker, and what the break-away pack will call themselves?

  •  As for this: (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    implicate order, lcbo, bythesea, rainmanjr
    the intraparty fight is just proof that the party is still viable, because "[o]nly things that are alive have battles"
    Perhaps Peggy Noonen has never seen teeming maggots on a corpse.

    (Sorry for that image.  I was just trying to push the one of Malkin walking around with Rove's head on a spike out of your mind -- I seem can't recall why.)

    Plaintiffs' Employment Law Attorney (harassment, discrimination, retaliation, whistleblowing, wage & hour, &c.) in North Orange County, CA.

    "I love this goddamn country, and we're going to take it back."
    -- Saul Alinsky

    by Seneca Doane on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 08:10:16 AM PST

  •  Sane Republicans have to leave the party (6+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mdmslle, a2nite, Tuba Les, DRo, rainmanjr, JerryNA

    ....because the crazies will not.

    And the crazies are putting Sane Republicans--and they do exist-- in the position of having to choose between party loyalty and supporting the nuts that the GOP base nominates.  

    Gun control--Sane Republicans do not want to have AK-47 open carry.

    Birth control--Sane Republicans want their kids to do family planning.

    Immigration--eh, this is one where the political leadership is acting in its self-interest

  •  tipped for "frothing at the mouth" alone. (4+ / 0-)

    good times, man. good times.

  •  Drive a wedge in every fissure (14+ / 0-)

    Headlines I'd like to see:

    Republicans in disarray over immigration

    Republicans in disarray over debt ceiling

    Republicans in disarray over gun control

    Republicans in disarray over budget impasse

    Republicans in disarray over climate change

    Republicans in disarray over gay marriage

    Republicans in disarray over new voting rights guarantees

    Republicans in disarray over tax hikes on the rich

    Republicans in disarray over new infrastructure projects

    Republicans in disarray over defense cuts

    “Americans are fighters. We're tough, resourceful and creative, and if we have the chance to fight on a level playing field, where everyone pays a fair share and everyone has a real shot, then no one - no one - can stop us. ”-- Elizabeth Warren

    by Positronicus on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 08:32:49 AM PST

    •  Republicans are on a remarkable losing streak on (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Positronicus, lgmcp, rainmanjr

      all these issues. If this was a prize fight the ref would have to stop it and call a TKO. But, Republicans keep swinging wildly while they're dead on their feet.

      Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

      by tekno2600 on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 09:11:37 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  This is a natural result of their success (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        tekno2600

        Their policies had a chance, because of their election successes, and we've seen the results of them.  Nobody likes those results.  But the arrogant attitudes of those who refuse to see society getting on the boat, which has begun to sail away without them, is going to doom those who stay.  Survivors like Jinhdal, or Rubio, are already deciding to get on the boat.

        "When you think about the money spent/on defense by the government/& the weapons of destruction we've built/we're so sure that we need/then you think of the millions that money could feed/How long?" J Browne

        by rainmanjr on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 11:54:18 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Except Jindal is missing the boat with his attempt (0+ / 0-)

          to repeal income tax in favor of sales tax and further cuts to Medicaid. He talk reform (much like Rubio), but he does the opposite.

          Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

          by tekno2600 on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 12:22:14 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Exactly. (0+ / 0-)

            Neither of them give a shit about anyone except themselves vis-a-vie their rich donors.

            "When you think about the money spent/on defense by the government/& the weapons of destruction we've built/we're so sure that we need/then you think of the millions that money could feed/How long?" J Browne

            by rainmanjr on Mon Feb 04, 2013 at 11:03:39 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  And health care for women (6+ / 0-)

      and fair pay for women

      in this respect, women in combat is a big f deal

      www.tapestryofbronze.com

      by chloris creator on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 09:13:56 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I agree with Limbaugh in the sense that (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rainmanjr, JerryNA

    It's wishful thinking for Republicans who assume that once this issue is past them Hispanics will start moving in droves into the GOP.

    •  That's why a split is possible. (0+ / 0-)

      The current GOP, despite GW's supportive stance on Hispanics, is too associated with bigotry.  They're damned whichever way they go on immigration.  Their only hope is to vote and switch to a new boat of their own making.  Brooks has the right idea.

      "When you think about the money spent/on defense by the government/& the weapons of destruction we've built/we're so sure that we need/then you think of the millions that money could feed/How long?" J Browne

      by rainmanjr on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 12:00:13 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  lol. too bad, so sad (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rainmanjr

    Just pass the popcorn, s'il vous plait?

  •  If the fight for a sane immigration policy (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lgmcp, bythesea, rainmanjr

    recognizes that the US, like all nations, has a sovereign right to control its borders, then Republicans should jump on board in a hurry and accept the fact that all of those undocumented workers came over more or less at our invitation.  Failure to crack down on employers or to otherwise get serious about all of the opportunity seekers we drew over the border should be viewed as an admission that the real law was no longer what had been put on the books.  Acting as if it were truly the law of the land in that period is unfair to the people who took our invitation and disruptive to the nation and its economy.  

    Good Republican ethics ought to allow for that.

    LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

    by dinotrac on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 09:00:12 AM PST

  •  Limbaugh is destroying the party (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Capt Crunch, rainmanjr

    from within.  I'm all for keeping him on the air for a loonnnnnggggg time.

  •  All the leverage ... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DRo, OleHippieChick, rainmanjr

    ... is with the Latino voters at this point. Whether or not every Republican votes for a good reform bill enough Republicans will to pass it, even in the House.

    Fun article, by the way.  I'm particularly interested in seeing the crazies eviscerate Rove before the GOP implodes.

  •  Hee Hee, Slicing and Dicing The GOP (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    implicate order, rainmanjr

    Death by a thousand cuts.

    This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

    by Beetwasher on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 09:04:57 AM PST

  •  David Brooks (0+ / 0-)

    I like his proposal.  The two factions will kill each other off.  We'd be the permanent majority.  (Note: I said I like it.  That has no relationship to my assessment of Brooks' intelligence level, which is not flattering to him.)

  •  WaPo Dead Enders' Comments Depressed And Bitter (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Shockwave

    Not surprisingly, the Birthers seemed to be out in force.

    There’s always free cheddar in a mousetrap, baby

    by bernardpliers on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 09:06:06 AM PST

  •  Republicans becoming Whig Party within 2 weeks of (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Shockwave, Beetwasher, Possiamo, rainmanjr

    Obama's inauguration! I guess extinction come fast when old, white males who don't believe in climate change throw a tea party and forget their sunscreen.

    Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

    by tekno2600 on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 09:06:49 AM PST

  •  Noonan: "It's a thing! It's alive!!!" nt (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JML9999, Capt Crunch, lcbo, Beetwasher, Nalepoc

    "Well, yeah, the Constitution is worth it if you succeed." - Nancy Pelosi // Question: "succeed" at what?

    by nailbender on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 09:07:25 AM PST

    •  That's FrawnkenSteen (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      The Nose

      I want 1 less Tiny Coffin, Why Don't You? Support The President's Gun Violence Plan.

      by JML9999 on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 09:11:51 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  It may be alive at this point... (0+ / 0-)

      but it appears that the condition is terminal.

      The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy... the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

      by lcbo on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 09:30:20 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Keep in mind that the monster became... (0+ / 0-)

        independent, got the girl and had some money.  I predict that a moderate GOP would eventually succeed, quite well, while the extremists will slowly slink away.

        "When you think about the money spent/on defense by the government/& the weapons of destruction we've built/we're so sure that we need/then you think of the millions that money could feed/How long?" J Browne

        by rainmanjr on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 12:05:29 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Repug racism prevails (0+ / 0-)

    Not all Repugs are racists but all racist (20% of all voters? 30%?) are Repug.

    Once a racists always a racist.

    Daily Kos an oasis of truth. Truth that leads to action.

    by Shockwave on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 09:08:06 AM PST

  •  McCain on LGBT protections in bill: (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bythesea

    McCain Shoots Down Idea Of LGBT Protections In Immigration Bill

    "I think it is a red herring," McCain said at a breakfast sponsored by Politico Wednesday. You may as well add "taxpayer-funded abortion."

    'Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.' -John Steinbeck

    by Eddie L on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 09:11:15 AM PST

  •  Legalization will increase union membership (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lgmcp, rainmanjr, JerryNA

    I posted this comment in the Koz diary yesterday but I think it's a very important thing to note.

    I was raised in So Cal and worked for over a decade in a Mexican restaurant. One that was staffed overwhelmingly by real, honest to goodness Mexicans. It was a real learning experience for me to be immersed in that culture.
    I can speak to another trait, at least among my drinking buddies, that is also manifesting itself in California -  the willingness to unionize.
    The folks I hung out with were very aware of the value of unions. Most of them were here illegally so it was out of the question.
    The faster we get these folks legal the faster union membership will grow.
    At least that was my non-empirical experience.

    •  Mine, too, and great point. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Capt Crunch, JerryNA

      I also work in a heavy Hispanic populated area and that's also my experience.  Unionization gave them support and survival and will grow with citizenship.  I think we Dem's owe a great debt to our Hispanic immigrants.  It wasn't long ago that people were talking about a permanent GOP majority.  Hispanics and Orientals have squashed that talk.

      "When you think about the money spent/on defense by the government/& the weapons of destruction we've built/we're so sure that we need/then you think of the millions that money could feed/How long?" J Browne

      by rainmanjr on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 12:11:51 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Expect a shit sandwich. (0+ / 0-)

    Some of the criteria for citizenship are catch 22s. One of these criterion is to report your employer. That is ridiculous.
    I think that the language requirement is absurd. Not everyone can pick up another language especially given the the extremely poor access to language educational opportunity for learning English. Illegal immigrants are working oppressively long hours. When are they supposed to stop and travel to an English class?
    If the steps on the "Path to Citizenship" are too obstructive and Byzantine, then we will end up in the same place.
    Republican version of immigration reform is only going to entail maximizing exploitation of workers both legal and illegal. You can bet the that unpatriotic multi-nationals are busy writing the immigration laws preparing to feed their version of "reform" directly to the legislatures.
    Expect a shit sandwich.

  •  I'm not all that interested in seeing 11 million.. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    orson

    new US citizens vying for US jobs and benefits. I think that it could potentially be a disaster for the current US working class.
    But, I enjoy the terpitude it stirs within the GOP. Ultimately, they are the biggest threat. Kind of like "enemy of my enemy is my friend" kind of thing.

    •  Pssst. They are already working. How do you (10+ / 0-)

      think they are surviving?

      •  but.. (0+ / 0-)

        they're working for cash, off the books, in short ILLEGALLY. Now, grant them citizenship, and they are entitled to rights, and benefits as citizens. Corporations will either have to pay them minimum wage (which is why they brought them here in the first place), or find other workers to smuggle in to exploit.
        Liberals disapoint me here. They're thinking like republicans. This is chess, not checkers. And in no way is it to the benefit of the US working class citizens to grant 11 million illegals citizenship.

        •  Many of them are doing jobs... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Possiamo

          ...that many people would be quite unwilling to do.

          The Grand Bargain must be stopped at all costs to protect the 99%.

          by cybrestrike on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 09:36:30 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  there it is (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            orson, rainmanjr, JerryNA

            So, the solution is to manipulate our free market system so I can buy cheap lettuce? No, pay a fair wage to a US citizen to do these jobs. If I have to pay more for produce at the market, so be it. That's the way the system works.
            Also, I know a roofer that employs illegals, legitimate roofing contractors can not compete with him. That's just not fair.

        •  Union membership will mushroom (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          rainmanjr, JerryNA

          I worked for years, side by side, with folks here illegally, in the restaurant business. In fact I was pretty much immersed in the Mexican culture.
          The folks I worked with were very much aware of the value of unions. But because they were here illegally they couldn't join.
          Sure enough you're seeing a growth in unions in California among the Hispanic demographic.
          Seems to me the regrowth of unions will be good for everybody and we can look to the newly legal folks for that new union membership.

          •  Well, thats one bright spot. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            rainmanjr
            •  I don't see it as dire. (0+ / 0-)

              I think their kids will go to school, start businesses, generate money to greater society and well over 11 million new jobs will be created.  We are moving into a new world involving changes on many levels and job production will be vast.  They will contribute greatly, as many already have, so I'm not worried.

              "When you think about the money spent/on defense by the government/& the weapons of destruction we've built/we're so sure that we need/then you think of the millions that money could feed/How long?" J Browne

              by rainmanjr on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 12:18:02 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

  •  Obama cannot possibly lose here. (6+ / 0-)

    If immigration reform succeeds and passes, he gets the lion's share of the credit.

    If it doesn't, Republicans get the lion's share of the blame.

    Either way, there will be enough ad-worthy nti-brown people, Ratbagger rhetoric from GOP firebreathers to drive Hispanics and Latinos away for generations.  Because some GOPers will simply be unable to restrain themselves.

    The GOP is simply trapped.  There is no good outcome for them.

    •  Their only option is a split. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dartagnan

      Brooks is correct.  So are you, Dartagnan, as far as the immediate moment is concerned.  A split will eventually work for them but not for several election cycles.

      "When you think about the money spent/on defense by the government/& the weapons of destruction we've built/we're so sure that we need/then you think of the millions that money could feed/How long?" J Browne

      by rainmanjr on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 12:20:50 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Brooks for GOP Split? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rainmanjr

    Why is that ridiculous? It is genius. Bring it on. Would love to see the GOP split. The consequences would be epic.

  •  Oh good, something to disagree with Joan about: (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rainmanjr
    But she's only slightly less ridiculous than David Brooks, who's arguing that the GOP needs to split into two parties, so the moderates can do their own thing.
    Nothing, absolutely nothing, would serve the liberal agenda better than having the GOP split into their corporatist and ideologue camps to operate as separate parties.

    Then the blue dog dems would migrate to the moderate GOP and the liberal base of the Democratic Party would finally be loosed from the shackles of the Turd Way and its triangulatory dysfunction.  

    If Frank Church were alive today, Joan, I believe he would be rooting for this upheaval.  Our two party system is fatally flawed.  Something like this is necessary to preserve the republic.

    For what it's worth.

    "Well, yeah, the Constitution is worth it if you succeed." - Nancy Pelosi // Question: "succeed" at what?

    by nailbender on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 09:15:45 AM PST

    •  Tempting, but I'm not sure. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ahumbleopinion

      Certainly multi-party parlaimentary systems seem more truly responsive to their citizens.   However the centrist Republicans who would also engulf conservative Dems, would be effectively the governing party (as perhaps they already are) ... going into coalition with their left flank or their right flank according to the changing times.   While this would certainly free up and revitalize "the Democratic wing of the Democratic party" internally, I'm not certain it would ultimately increase its power or influence.

      "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

      by lgmcp on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 09:38:34 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes, we need the centrists and corporatists to (0+ / 0-)

        keep us from really changing things.  I understand.

        "Well, yeah, the Constitution is worth it if you succeed." - Nancy Pelosi // Question: "succeed" at what?

        by nailbender on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 11:21:14 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Not sure I get your point (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JerryNA

          Are you proposing that a smaller but purer Democratic party would, by means of greater vigor and integrity, be more successful in accomplishing change?  Despite holding a correspondingly smaller share of the electorate?  If so, that seems to me a problem with respect to the electoral math.

          "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

          by lgmcp on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 11:28:02 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  The problem is that the Dem centrists currently (0+ / 0-)

            promise liberal agendas to get elected and then deliver corporatist solutions once they're in office.  This effectively neuters the liberal movement in the US.  By divorcing the rhetoric of the left from the programs of the center-right, a clear choice between what is broadly popular (liberalism) and what has been foisted on us in the name of liberalism (DLC Third Way triangulism) will change electoral dynamics to the point that the liberal agenda will become the order of the day.

            "Well, yeah, the Constitution is worth it if you succeed." - Nancy Pelosi // Question: "succeed" at what?

            by nailbender on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 08:27:10 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  Hadn't considered the conserv Dem's. (0+ / 0-)

      I've been posting in favor of Brooks' idea but you throw even more conviction into it.  The loss of conserv Dem's would, in fact, free Prog's to drive our Party forward.  That would be interesting.  I'm not sure we'll win, though, as I believe the nation is right of center (so a more moderate GOP would eventually beat a more Prog Dem Party).  The T's would die off, however.  Fascinating.

      "When you think about the money spent/on defense by the government/& the weapons of destruction we've built/we're so sure that we need/then you think of the millions that money could feed/How long?" J Browne

      by rainmanjr on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 12:25:41 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  This is GOP's only chance of political survival (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rainmanjr
  •  Only over immigration? (0+ / 0-)

    “One look, and your life was absolutely changed,” said Michael McGowan, one of the first police officers to arrive at Sandy Hook Elementary School on Dec. 14, as a gunman, in the space of minutes, killed 20 first graders and 6 adults.

    by lyvwyr101 on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 09:19:36 AM PST

  •  On the other hand ... (0+ / 0-)

    What worries me a bit is the idea, expressed a few weeks/days ago by Rachel Maddow, that we need a viable Republican party for democracy to work.  I think our democracy would work just fine with a reasonably sound Democratic Party and a functionally non-existent Republican one.  In fact, it would work a whole lot better.  Elections do not a democracy make - it's more than that.  I hope the Republican Party destructs whether by its own hand or by the hand of an electorate that someday actually wakes up to what a awful bunch they are.

    The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell

    by accumbens on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 09:19:52 AM PST

  •  Ah, "disarray." What a lovely, lovely word. (0+ / 0-)

    "They come, they come To build a wall between us We know they won't win."--Crowded House, "Don't Dream It's Over."

    by Wildthumb on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 09:20:41 AM PST

  •  Malkin must hate her heritage (5+ / 0-)
    Several months prior to Malkin's birth, her parents had immigrated to the United States on an employer-sponsored visa.
    Or, shorter yet - she's a hypocrite.
  •  We should stop listening to Limbaugh et al (0+ / 0-)

    And go to the source:  The Koch brothers, Sheldon Adelson, Pete Peterson, et al.

    It's their opinions that matter to Republican leaders.

    Even Democrats can be asses. Look at Rahm Emanuel.

    by Helpless on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 09:23:44 AM PST

  •  damned if they do/don't (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Possiamo

    regardless of internal wars, they're hosed: they support it, millions of immigrants become citizens and none vote repug; or, they fight it, millions of immigrants become citizens and none vote repug

    when I see a republican on tv, I always think of Monty Python: "Shut your festering gob you tit! Your type makes me puke!"

    by bunsk on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 09:26:42 AM PST

  •  "GOP illegal alien amnesty promoters" (3+ / 0-)

    Why does Malkin hate Ronald Reagan?

    I wish there were a Wizard of Oz to give the GOP a heart, Democrats courage, and the media a brain.

    by Malacandra on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 09:30:06 AM PST

  •  If I thought there was any chance ... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    orson

    ... that we could prevent another Malkin, I would support mining the harbors, lining the borders with troops and shooting on sight anyone trying to cross. I believe I could support halting all international transportation as well ... basically, I'd turn this joint into Burma so we'd never again be threatened with seeing or hearing a potential Malkin clone.

  •  For once, maybe, David Brooks isn't wrong (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jda, JerryNA
    she's only slightly less ridiculous than David Brooks, who's arguing that the GOP needs to split into two parties, so the moderates can do their own thing
    Actually, I hope that this idea takes root.
    Because I believe that the GOP is headed for a breakup, have been for a decade or more.
    All the signs are there, just look at the last few primary seasons where their factionalism reduced them to settling for the one they each hated less than the others after the one they loved was booted.
    And then there's the demographic problem.
    But before they can really break up, they have to acknowledge that they are breaking up and so far, this is the first trickle of that.
    Amazing how the landscape has changed since Obama came in. Abortion was the GOP's strong point and a toxic issue for the Dems. But not in this last election. The GOP war on women flipped that. Gay marriage? Flipped. Taxes on the top bracket? Flipped. Disaster relief? Well, W screwed that pooch and the Congressional GOP sealed it. Et cetera.
    A lot of GOP hot buttons are now burning them.
    And it couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of guys.
    So, Yeah, lets see the GOP become two or three or five or thirty-two separate, warring parties. Let's see the TeaBaggers stand alone. Let's see the Jeebus Crowd toddle of into the 9th century. Let's see the Billionaire Boys Club try to operate without the easily duped hordes that kept them in the chips.
    It should be entertaining if nothing else.
    I keep hearing people say that we need the Republicans to be a strong party, to keep a vibrant two party system operating. Well, maybe, but for a couple cycles it would be fine to have the Dems pull 60% while the remains of the GOP scramble to make single digits. To dominate Congress, pack the Judicial Branch, repair the damage done by the GOP since Reagan, yeah, I'd love to see Democratic party dominance for a couple decades.

    If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

    by CwV on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 09:38:03 AM PST

  •  I don't get it (0+ / 0-)

    I vote Republican and can't understand why this is a problem.  I do understand the whole rule of law thing and all that as a reason for vilifying people who come here illegally... But even then, in a perfect world we'd welcome anyone who wanted to come here to work and/or to be a productive member of society...

    I guess personally I'd be more than happy with a compromise where we grant some kind of mass citizenship, but put some kind of limitation on it like saying you're now a legal citizen, but for x number of years until you can prove you're a productive member of our society, you're not eligible for a, b, and c of these government assistance programs, and then if they still want to stay, great!  Maybe I'm wrong, but I think we could all find common ground in agreeing that we want to remain a place where anyone who wants to come here to work and do right by the country should be welcome to, but if the reason for coming here is because a life heavily subsidized by the government here is nicer than a life heavily subsidized by the government where they're from, I'd say no thanks.  

    I guess the other reason some Republicans may be so against this is because of the voting disparity among Hispanics is not favorable to Republicans (I realize not all illegal immigrants are Hispanics, but for the purposes of the political discussion that's mainly what everyone is talking about)... But even then, I personally think the message of limited government and limited taxation can be a winning one if articulated properly... Just seems like laziness on the part of the Republican party to want to shut out some people rather than do a better job of getting their message out there...

  •  Self-loathing? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    orson, JerryNA

    By Michelle Malkin's own definition of anchor baby isn't Michelle Malkin an anchor baby?

  •  Michelle Malkin needs to prove she is a US citizen (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    orson, JerryNA

    Let's see her birth certificate.

    From Wikipedia:

    Malkin was born in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, to Philippine citizens Rafaela (née Perez) – a homemaker and teacher – and Apolo DeCastro Maglalang, who was then a physician-in-training.[1] Several months prior to Malkin's birth, her parents had immigrated to the United States on an employer-sponsored visa.[4] After her father finished his medical training, the family moved[5] to Absecon, New Jersey.
    So at a minimum, she was an anchor baby.

    -9.00, -5.85
    Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.

    by Wintermute on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 09:47:10 AM PST

  •  Reminds me of that old song ... (0+ / 0-)
    “It’s up to me and Fox News, and I don’t think Fox News is that invested in this...."
    "There's no one left but we and thee -- and we're not sure of thee!"
  •  disarray (0+ / 0-)

    but it looks like the will own the house thanks to gerrymandering,
    here in Pa. our new districts are insane but incumbents are safe for another decade

    In all affairs it's a healthy thing now and then to hang a question mark on the things you have long taken for granted." Bertrand Russell (1872-1970)

    by lippythelion69 on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 11:00:49 AM PST

  •  also (0+ / 0-)

    im scared of the plans in some states of reallocating votes by
     districts
    The repugs will stop at nothing to steal power

    In all affairs it's a healthy thing now and then to hang a question mark on the things you have long taken for granted." Bertrand Russell (1872-1970)

    by lippythelion69 on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 11:04:31 AM PST

  •  Wow! Chairman Maokin, epithets, slogans and all. (0+ / 0-)
    Malkin basically is calling for war against the Republican senators involved calling them "suicidal" and "self-deluded." They are, she says, "GOP illegal alien amnesty promoters" and "capitulationist Republicans."

    I ♥ President Obama and have his back.
    Hands off SocSec, Medicare and Medicaid. NO subsidies to rich Corps.
    Rich pay more, bloated DoD steal less. End war on Afghanistan 01/01/14.

    by OleHippieChick on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 11:07:55 AM PST

  •  Fight could lead to independance from T's (0+ / 0-)

    If all the GOPers who would like freedom from the extremists are under attack, anyway, by supporting immigration changes then they are free to vote away from the T's on other issues, as well.  Path to citizenship is very popular among the people those GOPers are needing to appeal to, as well, so the numbers to be gained might outweigh the numbers to be lost.  This could be the issue that allows them to ditch the T's.
    On Brooks' idea of 2 Parties I'm not as derisive as many on DKos.  It could also achieve a successful break from the extremists who are dooming their Party to failure, anyway.  If a Mod GOP Party began to succeed while the T-Party failed then, eventually, the T's wouldn't win votes against the inevitable candidates of the Mod's.  Just like the Libertarian's have problems overcoming.
    Either way delights me.

    "When you think about the money spent/on defense by the government/& the weapons of destruction we've built/we're so sure that we need/then you think of the millions that money could feed/How long?" J Browne

    by rainmanjr on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 11:33:01 AM PST

  •  The lesson may be, persecution builds strength (0+ / 0-)

    Why really did anyone come to "America" in the first place? Even the original peoples many tens of thousands of years ago? Can any group-think stand in the way of determined human will? Can any voice demand, turn back?

    "There ain't no such thing as Sardines." GOD or some similar idiot

    by Fulgour on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 11:19:56 PM PST

  •  rove used the issue to sell voter ID/suppression (0+ / 0-)

    especially since katrina. that's what the talk radio record would show- if there was one.

    and with that backlog of anti im BS from team radio limbaugh the GOP cannot be expected to pass anything that progressives will want. instead they will continue to use the talk radio advantage to get their compromises, or play it as more washington ineffectiveness to suppress the vote in 2014. and it will likely work with a lot of latinos and progressives.

    so they'll win some and lose some, and once again, by ignoring talk radio, the left will let them get close enough to steal it.

    This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

    by certainot on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 03:31:42 PM PST

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