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Is there no limit to what the NRA and its supporters will do exercising their "second amendment rights?"  Read or listen to this story from NPR:

In Charlottesville, Va., residents are buzzing about a gun incident — but it wasn't a shooting. Sunday evening, a man walked into a supermarket with a loaded rifle. Shoppers called 911 and authorities rushed to the store, but police said they could not make an arrest. The man carrying the gun had not broken the law.

. . .

Some customers bolted for the door. Others grabbed their cellphones and called 911. Lt. Ronnie Roberts, a 30-year veteran of the Charlottesville police force, says eight officers went to the scene, ordered the man to drop his gun and searched him."  There was a note that was discovered during the investigative detention that reflected that he was exercising his First and Second Amendment rights," Roberts says.

http://www.npr.org/...

According to NPR, the "right" to open carry weapons does not appear to be isolated to this area of Virginia.

People are allowed to openly carry weapons in certain public places in 44 states. Virginia gets a "gold star" from the advocacy group OpenCarry.org, which considers it "wholesome" to wear a properly holstered gun.
http://www.npr.org/...

I find it very disturbing that residents of certain areas could be visiting businesses in their community and find themselves in a situation where another customer is carrying a loaded gun.  

Something should be done about this.  

Originally posted to night cat on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 09:31 PM PST.

Also republished by Shut Down the NRA and Repeal or Amend the Second Amendment (RASA).

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Comment Preferences

  •  When I read the article (5+ / 0-)

    it did make me glad that I live in an area where this would not happen.

    It did however bother me that open carry is allowed in Charlottesville, VA, as I have been there on vacation.  

  •  I saw a guy in Walmart (13+ / 0-)

    just recently, with a handgun in a holster ... open as you like.

    He was also riding in one of those electric carts ... maybe he was afraid someone would rob him of his bananas.

    I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
    but I fear we will remain Democrats.

    Who is twigg?

    by twigg on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 10:07:14 PM PST

    •  I really wonder why people will do (3+ / 0-)

      this sort of thing other than because they feel that they have a second amendment right.

      •  I find the whole concept (8+ / 0-)

        bizarre.

        I want our cops to have guns, and I want them to take all the others not used for hunting, etc, away.

        What I do not want are have a go heroes, vigilantes, or anyone else who feels that the death penalty is appropriate for trespass to have a gun.

        It's foolish, and it ends up with dead children ... in homes and schools.

        If that is the price we have to pay for freedom, then the price is too high.

        I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
        but I fear we will remain Democrats.

        Who is twigg?

        by twigg on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 10:27:55 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Not to mention that even if there was a robbery (7+ / 0-)

          in the store they were in and they pulled out their gun and started shooting innocent bystanders could be hit.  

        •  Do you really (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          methylin, Tom Seaview

          want the cops to be the only people with guns?

          I've never understood this sentiment coming from a left/liberal/progressive pov.

          •  why not (4+ / 0-)

            otherwise, the argument that shooting cops is good.  That's hardly a progressive position.  An anarchist one maybe.

            Hay hombres que luchan un dia, y son buenos Hay otros que luchan un año, y son mejores Hay quienes luchan muchos años, y son muy buenos. Pero hay los que luchan toda la vida. Esos son los imprescendibles.

            by Mindful Nature on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 01:37:11 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  So only the 1% (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Tom Seaview

              should be armed? They should enjoy rights that are denied others?

              The new AWB proposed exempts a broad range of government officials, not just law enforcement.

              That's pretty regressive.

              Nobody is arguing that shooting cops is good. Except maybe anarchists, you've got a point there.

              •  No. They really don't. The overwhelming majority (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                annecros

                of anarchists don't believe that shooting anyone is "good".

                "I have often seen people uncivil by too much civility, and tiresome in their courtesy." Michel de Montaigne

                by JesseCW on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 02:30:07 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  You are right (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Tom Seaview

                  a small subset of radical anarchists, maybe.

                  Thank you for correcting me.

                  •  annecros is a diarist..... (4+ / 0-)

                    who wanted a firearm because it took the first responders 15 minutes to get to the school in Sandy Hook.  They just reported first responders took 3 minutes to get to the school and found everyone dead, even as they hear the last shots.  You think the cops couldn't protect you in time.  There is no point in my presenting any alternative scenario to someone in the RKBA group who is convinced of the can protect themselves with a firearm.  You know best what your personal situation is and you are legally entitled to self defense pretty much eveywhere.  

                    However open carry is really the issue here.  Why do you think YOU need to open carry, annecros?

                    I think only the cops and uniformed security should be allowed open carry.  Most states allow someone to closed carry if they get the license for self defense.  Folks like this Charlottesville VA guy terrorized the Evansville Indiana zo a few years ago because open carry in public areas was recently made legal there and he wanted to publicize this and precipitate an incidenct and a law suit against the police.

                    You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad. Aldous Huxley

                    by murrayewv on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 04:04:34 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Corrections (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      claude, Rogneid

                      Because it takes first responders 20 minutes to get anywhere. They made the drive in three minutes, according to the first responders. According to dispatch, it took 20 from the first call.

                      They heard the last shot. It was reported early that the gunman didn't stop until he knew armed resistance had arrived.

                      I own a firearm. I don't open carry. I don't conceal carry either. My firearm doesn't fall under the AWB that is probably not going to make it to the Senate floor.

                      When seconds count, the police take minutes. Fact of life. Common knowledge. I don't hold it against them. They have to follow procedure.

                      Another cold hard fact of life, I am responsible, and I am the only person qualified, to defend myself.

                      Now a question for you. Why do you insist that I should be rendered defenseless? Why do you wish to prevent me from taking responsibility for my own well being?

                      •  A few questions for you (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        PinHole

                        Why do you think you're defenseless if you don't have a firearm?

                        Have you no physical ability whatsoever?

                        Have you no wits about you?

                        Have you no common sense?

                        Have you no ability to intelligently evaluate situations and communicate in a manner that reduces tension?

                        Why do you evidently feel "taking responsibility for your own well being" requires you to own a firearm?

                        I'm genuinely puzzled by people who equate being unarmed with being defenseless.  It is odd.

              •  There are many things that I am unable (6+ / 0-)

                to understand about those who love guns. What is there to "enjoy" about strapping a gun on one's hip or on one's back and parading through a shopping mall? Is it a physical pleasure that comes from the weight of the weapon? Or is it a psychological one that lets one slip into some fantasy that is strictly personal, that only the gun lover has access to?

                I suppose it is the indulgence of a fantasy. In a way the love of something that does harm to others and that has no other practical advantage to society is reminiscent of some of the slavers of old.
                The historical record is full of examples of men who owned slaves and who loved that they owned slaves. It gave them some sort of experience that they relished. It made their day. For example, John Quincy Adams, after a meeting with James Monroe, John C. Calhoun, and other members of Monroe's cabinet, in which slavery was discussed at length, said this:

                The discussion of this Missouri question has betrayed the secret of their souls. In the abstract they [the defenders of slavery] admit that slavery is an evil, they disclaim all participation in the introduction of it, and cast it all upon the shoulders of our old Grandam Britain. But when probed to the quick upon it, they show at the bottom of their souls pride and vainglory in their condition of masterdom. They fancy themselves more generous and noblehearted than the plain freemen who labor for subsistence. They look down upon the simplicity of a Yankee’s manners, because he has no habits of overbearing like theirs and cannot treat Negroes like dogs.
                It is among the evils of slavery that it taints the very sources of moral principle. It establishes false estimates of virtue and vice; for what can be more false and heartless than this doctrine which makes the first and holiest rights of humanity to depend upon the color of the skin? It perverts human reason, and reduces man endowed with logical powers to maintain that slavery is sanctioned by the Christian religion, that slaves are happy and contented in their condition, that between master and slave there are ties of mutual attachment and affection, that the virtues of the master are refined and exalted by the degradation of the slave; while at the same time they vent execrations upon the slave trade, curse Britain for having given them slaves, burn at the stake Negroes convicted of crimes for the terror of the example, and writhe in agonies of fear at the very mention of human rights as applicable to men of color.
                These characteristics seem very similar to the characteristics of some modern gun owners. For example, Adams’ remarks could be modified to reflect our present struggle:
                The discussion of this Second Amendment question has betrayed the secret of their souls. In the abstract they [the defenders of civilian ownership of guns] admit that gun violence is an evil, they disclaim all participation in the introduction of it, and cast it all upon the shoulders of our old Founders. But when probed to the quick upon it, they show at the bottom of their souls pride and vainglory in their condition of civilian gun ownership. They fancy themselves more generous and noblehearted than the plain civilians who have the strength and courage to eschew guns. They look down upon the simplicity of such a brave civilian’s manners, because he has no habits of overbearing like theirs and cannot threaten the lives of others in order to keep guns.
                It is among the evils of civilian gun ownership that it taints the very sources of moral principle. It establishes false estimates of virtue and vice; for what can be more false and heartless than this doctrine which makes the first and holiest rights of humanity to depend upon the ownership of a gun? It perverts human reason, and reduces man endowed with logical powers to maintain that civilian gun ownership  is sanctioned by God himself, that those who don’t own guns have nothing to be afraid of,  that between those who own guns and those who fear guns there are ties of mutual attachment and affection, that the virtues of the civilian gun owner are refined and exalted by the fear of those who eschew guns; while at the same time they vent execrations upon gun violence, curse criminals for having guns, they willingly sacrifice the lives of innocent children for the enjoyment that wearing a gun gives them,  and writhe in agonies of fear at the very mention of the right of others to live free from the fear of civilian gun owners.

                Might and Right are always fighting, in our youth it seems exciting. Right is always nearly winning, Might can hardly keep from grinning. -- Clarence Day

                by hestal on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 03:42:33 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Is it so hard to understand (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  JesseCW

                  that most gun owners don't enjoy this:

                  What is there to "enjoy" about strapping a gun on one's hip or on one's back and parading through a shopping mall? Is it a physical pleasure that comes from the weight of the weapon? Or is it a psychological one that lets one slip into some fantasy that is strictly personal, that only the gun lover has access to?
                  Is it really so hard to understand that those individuals are in the minority of the millions upon millions of people that own guns? If everyone who owned a gun carried it, you would see a lot more of them.
                  •  It is true that most do not carry their (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    PinHole

                    guns. But I do not know, and you do not know, if most gun owners do not "enjoy" some fantasy that derives from their ownership of a weapon of deadly force. I think that such fantastic pleasures are the main reason that most gun owners cling so fiercely to the second amendment, which was, after all, not God-given, but rather a hastily concocted addition to our Constitution. The ownership of such an instrument of power must strike some chord in the hearts of many Americans. It blinds them to reality as most fantasies do. In fact most people daydream but they are able to do so without endangering the lives of innocents.

                    Gun owners, many, maybe most of them, cry about their right to own guns, but such a right is not found in the Declaration of Independence. But the right of life is there and it is inalienable and unalienable.

                    Gun owners do not seem to value the lives of those innocents who died so that they, the gun owners, can indulge their fantasy. Gun owners always say it is someone else's problem.

                    Gun ownership is not inalienable nor is it unalienable. It is simply a awful mistake, like slavery, and it will, like slavery, disappear. But not without a fight. A fight I am prepared to make.

                    Might and Right are always fighting, in our youth it seems exciting. Right is always nearly winning, Might can hardly keep from grinning. -- Clarence Day

                    by hestal on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 05:18:02 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I tend to take the word (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Texas Lefty

                      of reasonable, rational and law abiding citizens.

                      The Bill of Rights does not grant rights. The rights are "natural" rights, or "God Given" as you put it.

                      You say this:

                      But I do not know, and you do not know, if most gun owners do not "enjoy" some fantasy that derives from their ownership of a weapon of deadly force.
                      But then you go on projecting onto individuals that own guns. For example:
                      It blinds them to reality as most fantasies do. In fact most people daydream but they are able to do so without endangering the lives of innocents.
                      People much smarter than me have told me that we often project those feelings that make us most uncomfortable with ourselves. Not sure I subscribe to that.

                      If my life is inalienable and unalienable then I have every right to protect it. That is what the words "inalienable" and "unalienable" mean.

                      Nobody has died because I own a gun. The vast majority of gun owners can say the same.

                      As far as your "fight" is concerned - knock yourself out.

                      •  And of course that projection works (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        PinHole

                        for the owners of guns as well. They carry guns to protect themselves from others whom they imagine will do what they would do if they had the chance. Perhaps you have put your finger on the dark secret of gun ownership. Perhaps you have discovered that gun owners have fantasies of breaking into houses and taking the gold and jewels of the homeowners at gunpoint, or perhaps their fantasies are that they will go into a mall and by brandishing or even firing their weapons they will strike fear and awe in the hearts of shoppers. Tell us more, I think you are on to something.

                        Fantasies do blind people to reality. That is why they are called fantasies. It is a fact. You can look it up.

                        Thousands of people die every year because, and only because, you and millions of others like you, own guns. You and your ilk are responsible for a gun being in the hands of someone who will use it to kill innocents. I am not responsible, but you are.

                        I do not know how long you will live, but remember that each year you own your gun, thousands of innocents will die because of it.

                        Give up your fantasies. Lift up your eyes. Love your fellow man.

                        Might and Right are always fighting, in our youth it seems exciting. Right is always nearly winning, Might can hardly keep from grinning. -- Clarence Day

                        by hestal on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 05:46:00 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Or perhaps they aren't (0+ / 0-)

                          projecting at all. Perhaps they keep up with the news.

                          You don't know, do you?

                          After all, anything else would be projection.

                          •  I read the news too. And it is full of gun (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            PinHole

                            violence of lives ruined or taken by guns. Guns are instruments of death and destruction and civilian ownership of guns must go the way of slavery.

                            Might and Right are always fighting, in our youth it seems exciting. Right is always nearly winning, Might can hardly keep from grinning. -- Clarence Day

                            by hestal on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 06:30:46 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                        •  Nobody (0+ / 0-)

                          has died because I own a gun.

                          •  Thousands and thousands have died because you, (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            PinHole

                            and others like you, insist on owning guns so that you can indulge your fantasies.

                            You can deny it all you want, but you are responsible for guns being freely available and therefore falling into the hands of those who will slaughter innocents.

                            And, as for you personally, remember that your gun-owning experience is not yet over. Before you give up your gun, you, or someone close to you, may fall victim to the violence that guns being into the lives of people who think they are safe because they own guns. Your gun is a time-bomb. It may go off today or next year, but it is a constant danger.

                            Might and Right are always fighting, in our youth it seems exciting. Right is always nearly winning, Might can hardly keep from grinning. -- Clarence Day

                            by hestal on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 06:29:00 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  LOL (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            JesseCW

                            This is really funny.

                            See ya hestel. Have a good life!

                          •  'Tain't funny at all. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            PinHole

                            It is deadly serious.

                            Might and Right are always fighting, in our youth it seems exciting. Right is always nearly winning, Might can hardly keep from grinning. -- Clarence Day

                            by hestal on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 07:37:08 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                    •  Since "Gun Owners" are for you an Other you ponder (0+ / 0-)

                      only in an effort to feel better about yourself, maybe you'd be better off just to admit your complete ignorance rather than opining about what they do or don't thing.

                      This cultural war bullshit is noxious no matter where it's coming from, and it makes it impossible to discuss any actual issues.

                      "I have often seen people uncivil by too much civility, and tiresome in their courtesy." Michel de Montaigne

                      by JesseCW on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 10:54:04 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  It is not a cultural war, it is a real war. (0+ / 0-)

                        People are dying and the only reason that is happening is because gun lovers will not give up their guns.

                        Might and Right are always fighting, in our youth it seems exciting. Right is always nearly winning, Might can hardly keep from grinning. -- Clarence Day

                        by hestal on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 12:32:15 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

            •  Sometimes, shooting a cop is the right thing to (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              annecros

              do.  For instance, when a cop is trying to murder you under color of authority.

              You're making it kind of clear that you don't know what anarchist means, btw.  Very few anarchists would support killing anyone, including a cop, except under the same circumstances most progressives would also support it.

              Immediate self defense from a naked effort by an officer to commit murder or other severe assault.

              "I have often seen people uncivil by too much civility, and tiresome in their courtesy." Michel de Montaigne

              by JesseCW on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 02:29:18 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  good luck with that.... (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                PinHole

                I actually know of an incident in my town where a young man fled the police and claimed that he fired in self defense against the police.  His father hid him and arranged a surrender later.  The young man survived the experience and was of course jailed and convicted and is now in prison.  My town has quite a high rate of police killing and shooting suspects.  My source for the story was credible.  It still, best case scenario, results in the conviction and incarceration of the person who shoots at the police.  If the police are that dangerous or corrupt, you have bigger problems than carrying a weapon in self defense.  And I do mean Mexico and Latin America.  When some countries cut down on the armed guards, death rates from firearms went down.

                You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad. Aldous Huxley

                by murrayewv on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 04:13:08 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  My Granda sat on a jury (0+ / 0-)

                  in the 1980's.  Two cops tried to beat a young man to death.  He got hold of one of their guns, and shot them both killing one of them.

                  He was found not guilty by reason of self defense.

                  The local PD hounded him the rest of his life, repeatedly harassing him and arresting him on bullshit charges.  He killed himself about a decade later.

                  But this a conversation about what a person has a right to do.  And killing in genuine self defense - even killing people hiding behind badges - is something only the most craven statist or extreme pacifist would claim a person does not have the right to do.

                  "I have often seen people uncivil by too much civility, and tiresome in their courtesy." Michel de Montaigne

                  by JesseCW on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 04:19:26 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

              •  ABSOLUTELY INSANE!!! (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Kvetchnrelease, melfunction
                Sometimes, shooting a cop is the right thing to do
                ARE YOU OUTTA YOUR FUCKING MIND??!!

                Never shoot at a cop!! NEVER!!
                And that IS the liberal Democrat position!
                you will get whats coming to you and you will deserve it!!

                Happy just to be alive

                by exlrrp on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 05:09:33 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  If someone has decided to kill you, you have (0+ / 0-)

                  every right to defend yourself.

                  Do you personally believe that confronted with a rogue cop who has stated an intent to murder, people should simply DIE without a struggle?

                  You think THAT is a liberal Democrat Position?

                  you will get whats coming to you and you will deserve it!!
                  Is that a motherfucking threat?

                  "I have often seen people uncivil by too much civility, and tiresome in their courtesy." Michel de Montaigne

                  by JesseCW on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 10:50:15 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

          •  Because while every now and then a story pops up (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Witgren

            (such as the one on the rec list about a boy being handcuffed over $5) about a few cops abusing their authority and being dirty assholes, most police officers are not bad guys and do a thankless, selfless job to help protect the communities they serve.

            I've never understood the "fuck the police!" sentiment coming from the left (and really, the right too, it seems to be universal). A few dirty cops do not represent the thousands of officers who put their ass on the line for us every day.

            "How come when it’s us, it’s an abortion, and when it’s a chicken, it’s an omelette?" - George Carlin

            by yg17 on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 05:38:49 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  Open carry in Louisville Zoo, KY (5+ / 0-)

      Actually open carry is permitted in ALL government facilities, except Schools, prisons

      We have serious concerns about the safety implications for our employees of metro government and the public who comes into these buildings," said Jefferson County Attorney Mike O'Connell, whose office making sure local policies comply with state law.

      The city will allow those openly carrying guns into its facilities, but Chris Poynter, a spokesman for Mayor Greg Fischer, said other weapons aren't allowed — "even though you can bring guns, you can't bring knives," Poynter said.

      "We have concerns for the safety of our workers," said Poynter, who noted that some people get angry due to the work of government officials. "To be able to come to the office with a gun is disconcerting to some of our employees. But the law seems quite clear on that."

      Louisville Zoo Director John Walczak said signs asking patrons to return any weapons to vehicles have been removed and workers are being trained on how to monitor the facility if a firearm is brought in.

      Louisville Free Public Library Director Craig Buthod said he doesn't think the law will affect that facility much.

      "I think most people have better sense," Buthod said. "I don't think we'll have very many people bringing guns.""

      Open Carry

      It's INSANE! Now get this, no one can carry a CONCEALED weapon into  sites .

      Also to get a concealed permit one must pass training, get a certificate BUT to open carry all one has to do is have a receipt of purchase!

      PLUS cities, counties CAN NOT Regulate their own weapons requirement! In a big city like Louisville, this presents many problems.

      It's INSANE!

      •  If I were to see a person (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        night cat, filkertom

        with a gun in a grocery store or drug store I would 1) be concerned for my own safety and that of everyone else; 2) Assume that person was going to rob the place.

        What do pharmacists have to say about this?  Are they  going to have to enclose themselves in bullet proof cages because they have drugs.??????   I consider pharmacists part of my medical team.  We have known one guy since 1966!  Yes, he's old at this point and he sold his drug store to CVS 20 years ago, but he still works there.  He doesn't need this.  There are also drive-up windows now.    

        Yes, It's INSANE!!!!!

        Maybe the police will get tired of responding to all these alarms of people who need to strut around with their ___ on display.  That's when something will get done.  When it starts to cost the average tax payer more than $50 a year to pay for all this crap.

        ARRGGGHHHH !!!!!

      •  open carry in the Evansville Indiana zoo.... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        PinHole

        a few years ago.  This was legal and the guy did it so he could sue the police.

        You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad. Aldous Huxley

        by murrayewv on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 04:14:15 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Yes, but to be fair (8+ / 0-)

    Any private business can put up a sign saying no weapons...and the grocery store. Hose not to do it.  Many businesses choose not to...for example, Starbucks has decided to follow 'community norms' on this.  I remember reading an article about groups gathering at Starbucks, open-carrying, to edumicate all those latte sipping liberals.

    Yeah, these laws are nuts...but so are the companies too scared of the NRA to post a little sign saying no weapons allowed inside.

    "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

    by Empty Vessel on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 10:11:19 PM PST

    •  It just has to be the proper sign posted properly, (3+ / 0-)

      and I think what's "proper" goes down to the county level so it's always best to check with your local folks.

      But here's what idiots like The Rifleman end up doing (aside from becoming martyrs when one of them ultimately gets shot and killed for the sake of FREEDOM):

      1.  Freaks out customers who then stop coming to store.
      2.  Forces store to post "no weapons" notices.
      3.  Supposedly bad guys then rob store.
      4.  Bad guys get caught by police.
      5.  And still no guns allowed.

      I think some of these gunners want a world where they're the BMOC or HNIC or whatever mental state one must be in to think waltzing into the Piggly Wiggly WITH A GODDAMN FUCKING RIFLE is a good idea on ANY day of the week.

      I think right there's enough to get his permit pulled on "mental health" grounds.

      And it's ultimately going to be for his own good.

      So now the GOP is using undocumented workers to help dig their hole. Brilliant!

      by here4tehbeer on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 10:37:37 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Not when state laws forbid (6+ / 0-)

        Counties from making OWN regulations like Kentcky has done!

        •  or Indiana...n/t (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          melfunction, PinHole, here4tehbeer

          You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad. Aldous Huxley

          by murrayewv on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 04:28:58 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Ah... right you are. I've been looking at local (0+ / 0-)

          signage ordinances, and for places which are more specific as to precisely which buildings in a given county fall under the permitted / prohibited rules and what constitutes proper posting for private and non-listed businesses.

          As far as KY goes, yes - it's burned into the commonwealth's constitution that no locality may override Federal or State laws with regard to open or concealed carry - so there likely would be no county-level specifics with regard to signage.

          But regardless -- every indication I find is that if a business owner (like a grocer) doesn't want guns in their establishment and they post notice to that effect in an obvious location, it's either not legal or at best not smart to ignore their wishes (except for those folks like LEOs who may carry basically everywhere).

          So now the GOP is using undocumented workers to help dig their hole. Brilliant!

          by here4tehbeer on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 06:21:06 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Come to Utah. We're a little more used to it. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    night cat, Mother Mags, methylin

    Not that it happens all that much, and when it does it's usually a "statement" event.

    A few other things about Utah-

    Concealed carry has been legal on college campuses for a few years now, and in schools for about 12 years I read the other day in an article about teachers being given free gun training.

    Ain't really all that much of a thing here.

    I should also mention that when carrying openly, the weapon must be two actions away from firing: loaded magazine but no round in the chamber for example. Unless the carrier is a concealed carry permit holder, in which case the round may be chambered for both open or concealed carry. Prohibited persons (convicted or indicted felons, adjudicated mental defective, etc) can't carry of course.

    Moderation in most things.

    by billmosby on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 10:12:35 PM PST

  •  nonetheless, it still is a right in some places. (5+ / 0-)

    personally I disagree with the notion of open carry, especially with a loaded rifle, and the whole thing of "time, manner, place" comes into question in consideration of current events.

    I am equally disconcerted seeing NYPD in the subways with submachine guns as I was the first time I saw the Caribinieri in Rome.

    I see a very beautiful planet that seems very inviting and peaceful. Unfortunately, it is not.…We're better than this. We must do better. Cmdr Scott Kelley

    by wretchedhive on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 10:14:37 PM PST

    •  We had a couple hundred folks (0+ / 0-)

      on the State Capital grounds carrying rifles, pistols etc on Gun Appreciation Day, or whatever it was called.

      I remember thinking it was unusual to see heavily armed police in an airport for the first time. Frankfurt, Germany, 1982. In the part of the airport occupied by El Al.

      I have (jokingly, of course) suggested from time to time that our bicycle club do an "open carry" ride through Park City during Sundance some year. Some people thought I was serious and couldn't wait, lol. Imagine seeing a number of cyclists in jerseys and bicycle pants with holstered accessories rolling through town.

      Usually the roads would be too snowy, but a few years back it was mild enough that my wife and I were able to ride through town and look for celebs. Only saw a bunch of shivery-looking young women with press passes though.

      Moderation in most things.

      by billmosby on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 10:26:35 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  to clarify about open carry (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      annecros

      He could have made the same point he was trying to make without a loaded magazine and I do hold those who do OC/CC to a higher standard of responsible behavior than those who don't carry a gun in public.

      However legal, it was still a dick move that lacked foresight and imagination.

      I see a very beautiful planet that seems very inviting and peaceful. Unfortunately, it is not.…We're better than this. We must do better. Cmdr Scott Kelley

      by wretchedhive on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 10:32:54 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Yup, the whole State of Arizona is open carry. (4+ / 0-)

    Who cares what banks may fail in Yonkers. Long as you've got a kiss that conquers.

    by rasbobbo on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 10:25:42 PM PST

  •  I'm sick to death (8+ / 0-)

    of all this gun sh*t.  Guys with tiny members get a thrill out of intimidating normal people with their open carry things hanging at their sides.  For the love of Jesus, can't we walk into a public place without fear of getting capped?  Oh, I forgot!  It's their right to intimidate me.  I have no rights at all. Sick, sick, sick.

    •  I'm sick of "member" speculation. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      annecros, claude

      You can usually tell if you're in danger because you will notice the gun being readied to fire, aimed, etc. Somebody doing an open carry rights demo won't actually seem to be threatening, just standing there, usually with the weapon holstered or slung, not ready to shoot at something.

      If they're trying to intimidate, they will be detained and questioned even in Utah. According to the law, anyway, and in practice also.

      Moderation in most things.

      by billmosby on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 10:50:56 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  International Tourism (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      WakeUpNeo, PinHole, murrayewv, melfunction

      Ya think this open carry, conceal carry , or 11,000 Gun Deaths a year helps with American image abroad and helps overall draw people to the US as a good place for a tourist?

      Also how many parents will feel safe to take thier children to my Louisville Zoo now that the state forced us to allow OPEN CARRY? The Zoo director MUST TRAIN workers how to respond in case of an incident.

      Hell I'm not going in that type of intimidation climate of open or concealed carry! I refused to renew my membership, how sad.

  •  I think I'd request "gun free" shopping (9+ / 0-)

    hours, before I'd go back to that store. Maybe they'd get the message.

    "The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

    by Lily O Lady on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 10:39:23 PM PST

  •  When you go into Bass Pro the dream store of (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    statsone, PinHole

    Gun Lovers everywhere check out the sign about Guns at the Door.

  •  Some people can carry a loaded gun into (0+ / 0-)

    the Senate. Some of them are Democrats.

    What is truth? -- Pontius Pilate

    by commonmass on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 11:23:48 PM PST

  •  I'm not a big fan of open carry for the hell of it (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Tom Seaview

    At least not for some time now.  On the other hand, you're from Maryland.  Do really need to fret about how Virginians carry on about their business?

  •  "I want a Big Mac and I want it fast." (3+ / 0-)

    "Do we understand each other?"

    Boehner Just Wants Wife To Listen, Not Come Up With Alternative Debt-Reduction Ideas

    by dov12348 on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 01:26:00 AM PST

  •  Back in the mid 80s... (3+ / 0-)

    I was a cub reporter assigned to the city beat in a mid-sized, mid-west(ish) city.

    I can't remember why this even became an issue, but an open carry initiative got on to the city council's agenda. Nearly everyone on both sides of the aisle was against this.

    A few gun nuts showed up in support. In a bizarre demonstration of civil disobedience, they were wearing holsters with pistols. They were asked to leave.

    They went into the parking lot and commenced to drinking and presumably hating on everyone who had an issue with guns being brandished in town.

    An hour or so after they were kicked out of town hall, they started shooting at pigeons.

    They're called gun "nuts" for a reason.

  •  I'd much prefer the nuts carry in the open (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Roadbed Guy

    than hide their weapons under their jackets and skulk around.

    At least that way I know who to avoid.

    "I have often seen people uncivil by too much civility, and tiresome in their courtesy." Michel de Montaigne

    by JesseCW on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 02:26:27 AM PST

    •  you can't avoid them.... (0+ / 0-)

      that is because they are carrying in their cars and pull out their firearm and kill you from their car if they decide you are threatening them.

      You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad. Aldous Huxley

      by murrayewv on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 04:53:25 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  If they have to carry in the open, I can choose (0+ / 0-)

        the movie theater, dentist, grocery store ect. with the "check your guns" sign.

        It beats concealed.

        "I have often seen people uncivil by too much civility, and tiresome in their courtesy." Michel de Montaigne

        by JesseCW on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 10:57:55 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Not 911!!! Call "See Something, Say Something" (0+ / 0-)

    Have Homeland Insecurity sick a Thug Scrum on him and  make him wish he were never born. They will grind him into the pavement just to make an example for the rest of us to knuckle under. The government will not stand for Right Wing Terrorism, or any other dissent.

    I voted with my feet. Good Bye and Good Luck America!!

    by shann on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 03:22:39 AM PST

  •  Most gun Cult people (including a few women) need (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite, PinHole

    the phallic symbol right at hand to make themselves feel "manly."

    Then they came for me - and by that time there was nobody left to speak up.

    by DefendOurConstitution on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 03:57:47 AM PST

  •  everyone overlooks one key fact (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Texas Lefty

    The people carrying openly (not that I approve: I keep mine concealed) are almost certainly NOT "persons prohibited." They legally own and possess their firearms. They're not people with a criminal record or a history of mental illness.

    If they were prohibited persons, they'd make sure you did not see their firearms.

    It doesn't worry me so much when I see open carry. What worries me is the millions of actual criminals carrying concealed weapons... folks who are already convicted felons, and are carrying guns with criminal intent.

    Nobody on DKos is complaining about them. Nothing proposed in Congress, enacted in dead of night in New York, or imposed on us by DHS will help deal with that problem.

    Things are more like they are now than they've ever been before...

    by Tom Seaview on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 05:07:51 AM PST

    •  So, suppose open carry became the law of the land- (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      PinHole

      exactly what stops these 'criminals' who

      hide their weapons under their jackets and skulk around
      from simply strapping one on to blend in as they do presently when they hide them like you do?
      At least that way I know who to avoid.
      Who do I avoid then? what's the difference? And what are us  convicted 'criminals' supposed to do to defend ourselves from the likes of gun nut cases? Because of whatever i may have done many years ago, I should not be in a position to defend myself? Fuck, you can carry yours gun wherever and as I have seen, act a total ass with it but yet even a "law abiding' citizen cannot go walking around with a sword, a large knife, baseball bat or even a 2x4 without being scrutinized and at bare minimum, scrutinized by law enforcement. try it, go walk around doing your daily routine carrying a sword and see how fast and how many times you get Johnny Law called on you.
          I'd have a hell of a time committing mass murder with a sword or 2x4 nor do I have any desire to carry one around but given the vehemence of "law abiding gun owners' and their propensity to do really ignorant and stupid ass shit why should those who don't carry guns be subjected to total vulnerability from an idiot toting his legal gun?  
         Given the high propensity for 'law  abiding gun owners' to do really dumbass shit with their legally toted guns, why should I or anyone else be subjected to their stupidity, ignorance, and irresponsibility?
         Every 'law abiding gun owner' is law abiding until they're not. I have closely followed gun news in a manner much like @gundeaths for a long period of time, long enough to see just how many 'law abiding gun owners' went off the rails and injured or worse, killed someone.
         What is sickening to me is how easily they get away with these 'accidents' with no charges.
         You want to carry one and the law says you can, fine. But the law should include a mandatory minimum of $1,000,000.00 in liability insurance and mandatory confiscation and lifetime ban if at some point you become stupid, irresponsible, or ignorant about  what that responsibility truly entails.
         At the point you drop your shit in public, accidentally discharge, brandish or threaten for shits and giggles you are no different than the 'criminals' you bemoan and should be treated no differently.
         But they are.
         The old redneck that murdered the kid in Liburn, Ga Saturday for mistakenly turning into his driveway due to bad GPS directions was just released on bail of $11,200 for murder, yeah, $11,200 is SO typical for murder...
         And speaking of GA, here's another example of those fine 'law abiding gun owners' until the moment he wasn't...he had a concealed carry permit, his gun was legal...
      Thandiwe, 23, also confessed from the witness stand that he shot two other women that day – Tiffany Ferenczy and Lauren Garcia, who is now paralyzed from her injuries – before driving off in Watts’ car.

      Be the kind of person your dog thinks you are.

      by teabaggerssuckbalz on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 06:39:19 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Was there a question in there somewhere? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Texas Lefty

        Because it looked like a jumbled mix of accusations, insults, and paranoid fantasies.

        Things are more like they are now than they've ever been before...

        by Tom Seaview on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 06:59:42 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, the question is this- you have stated that (0+ / 0-)

          Open carry would distinguish legal gun toters  from illegal gun toters simply because an illegal gun toter hides his gun on his person. So if we went to open carry what stops these criminal you're referring to from merely switching to open carry as well and therefore blending in?
              Although the cases and stories that I personally tracked were dated from late 2009 to early 2012, they were all after the craze began allowing so many to carry. Now mind you that I can only mine info from news accounts and available court case documentation but I can assure you that I can pull up no less than 5,000 gun fails perpetrated by 'law abiding gun owners' just in the few years that I studied the subject. In what I've found, those who were legal at the time that they did something stupid, reckless, irresponsible, or reprehensible with their gun were treated as if what they had done were of no consequence.
               Example that quickly comes to mind during that time frame was the 'law abiding responsible' gun owner in Jacksonville that dropped his gun while reaching over the counter at a dry cleaners as the clerk handed him his dry cleaned goods. The gun hit the floor, went off and shot through the counter killing the clerk. No charges, ruled an accident...I'm certain that since it was merely an 'accident' and no charges were filed that this fool is still legally allowed to carry.
              We have a current case going on I believe in Osceola County where a guy goes into his neighbors yard and stomps the shrubs and other landscaping. Owner call the police. Police didn't witness said event so they left. The man went out to try to salvage what plants he could and as he's doing so Mr. Asshole kicks down the fence, stomps the mans plants again as he's approaching on the mans property. When he got within range the man whacked Mr. Asshole with his shovel. Cops came back. Who do you think is in court as we speak having to fight an aggravated felonious assault charge that the state attorneys are saying is NOT a case of SYG?
             Bet if he'd had a gun and shot the asshole dead they'd pinned medals on him.
             Why the disparity?
             Wanna hear the one about the dope dealer in Daytona that was legally carrying and shot one of his customers in the back of the head from two doors down as he was driving away? Charged with trafficking marijuana and possession but no charge evolved from him killing a fleeing customer.
              Or maybe the one right down the street from me that took his 'law abiding gun owning' ass slithering on his belly across a street and through a few yards to get close enough to his neighbors to shoot one 14 times, another 11, and the third 6 times killing two. SYG baby- well, at least until it came out that it'd all been captured on a surveillance camera across the street...
              I trust no one with a gun, period. Legally carrying in particular. A criminal may carry one, yes, but at least they are true to the need they feel to have it, to rip someone off or kill someone. I see a whole lot of self admitted paranoia with the majority of gun advocates. Quite honestly paranoid people scare me much more than any criminal ever has.

          Be the kind of person your dog thinks you are.

          by teabaggerssuckbalz on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 09:46:04 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  like I thought (0+ / 0-)
            I trust no one with a gun, period.
            Stay in bed with the covers over your head, then. You'll feel safer.

            Things are more like they are now than they've ever been before...

            by Tom Seaview on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 11:52:32 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  No, actually I have no paranoia nor irrational (0+ / 0-)

              fears that people are out to get me, so I do quite nicely. And I was born with testicles, I didn't have to buy mine and they're much easier to carry- even concealed.
                 I have no issues with guns, I have owned a number of them over the years. I shot competitively for many years so it's not the thought of guns that bugs me out, its the bug outs with guns. Oh sure, everyone advocating proliferation has the standard NRA memes "I am responsible;e", I am law abiding", "I don't act an ass while carrying, you'd never even know I'm carrying" blah blah blah.
                 Until you aren't.
                 And in todays news, another law abiding gun toting asshole on the loose, this time a ICE agent no less, ya think his safety training included this?

              Police said cameras were rolling as a U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement officer helped his son brutally attack tow truck drivers in Orange County.

              The incident was caught on several surveillance cameras, which even show the suspect, Pablo Morales, pulling out a handgun, authorities said.

                And since you RKBA peeps always insist on proof, well, take a good proud look at your fellow gun constituent in action, his fucked- in- the- head- sorry ass was on camera...
                 http://www.wftv.com/...
                 So. how's he fit in to your NRA driven drivel, you know, the "law abiding, responsible gun owner" thing...  
                 This guy was law enforcement and did some shit like this but you think I should trust you and every other total stranger with one?
                  Fat chance.
                  As I stated before, I'd trust a criminal with one before I did you. I know their intentions, you? Not so much.
                  I needn't a blanket for my "fear" but you need a gun for yours. Who is more fearful and of what?

              Be the kind of person your dog thinks you are.

              by teabaggerssuckbalz on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 05:27:02 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

  •  Virginia is an open carry state (7+ / 0-)

    let me share two incidents.  During the 2006 Senate campaiogn, a supporter of Jim Webb managed to wangle an invitation to a George Allen event.  Remember, Allen was very supportive of the NRA.  But when the friend showed up with his holstered sidearm he was asked to leave.

    Many years ago I think it was in Fairfax County two motor cycle gangs showed up packing - rifles and pistols fully visible - in the parking lot of a small shopping center / strip mall. But until they began shooting the local police were helpless to do anything.

    What we have is not a gun culture, but a gun obsession, a gun cult

    So let me share two tweets I offered last night that got some traffic:

    Fed law says that when hunting ducks 10 gauge and 3 rounds in shotgun is limit.  NRA wants less protection for people than we already give 2 ducks

    which I followed with this:
    If gunnuts argue that ducks do not shoot back might we remind them neither do 1st and 2nd graders?

    "We didn't set out to save the world; we set out to wonder how other people are doing and to reflect on how our actions affect other people's hearts." - Pema Chodron

    by teacherken on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 05:23:37 AM PST

  •  uh... where have you all been? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PinHole


    ever since the beginning of Obama's first presidential campaign the NRA has put on a full court press for open carry rights.  doesn't anyone remember all the rifles and handguns at the health care rallies, at Obama events? I saw the pictures posted here.

    The logic behind this is that the gun-rights lobby, ever since they were threatened with Obama's Bitter Gun and Religion comment (damn you to hell Huffpo for running that 'breaking story' which was no story but a private comment in a donor meeting with Nancy Pelosi) feels their 2nd amendment remains abridged if they can't gun-tote anywhere they like, from home to car, from car to shopping mall, from shopping mall to picking up the kids at school, and they are furiously attending to it by the passage of explicit "Open Carry" laws, which are the nightmare of law enforcement.  And that is why public buildings in any open carry state now have to post a sign forbidding weapons if they don't want gun-totin mavericks sauntering into government buildings trying to "impress" their way around.

    "Kossacks are held to a higher standard. Like Hebrew National hot dogs." - blueaardvark

    by louisev on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 05:37:38 AM PST

    •  oh yeah despite the fact (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      PinHole


      that if you look back to Wild West days, commerce centers like Tombstone, Arizona, were gun-free zones where no one could carry and the sheriff's office checked your guns at the town border.  We have gone waaaaay far backward from the Wild West.

      "Kossacks are held to a higher standard. Like Hebrew National hot dogs." - blueaardvark

      by louisev on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 05:39:06 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I prefer concealed carry to open carry (0+ / 0-)

    As far as laws go. I can understand why some may feel fearful when they see someone with a gun strapped to their back or out in a holster, especially if they do not own or care for guns.  It doesn't really bother me because someone intent on committing a crime with a gun is probably illegally concealing it or holding it in a more threatening manner.  But for the sake of the population in general, I believe concealed carry should be the only way to carry in public.  

    "I'm a progressive man and I like progressive people" Peter Tosh

    by Texas Lefty on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 06:11:31 AM PST

  •  Motivation behind acts is to desentisize public (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PinHole

    to concept of gun BEARING citizenry and imbue them with notion that everyday folk carry weapons to everyday places without harm to anyone. I disagree with their premise as I believe any carry provision should be only latent not patent as in this example.The reaction of the people exposed to this example, and on this message board, is precisely the motivation behind this act.

    "If the past sits in judgment on the present, the future will be lost." Winston Churchill

    by Kvetchnrelease on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 06:19:00 AM PST

  •  How is that not 'inciting a panic', given that (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PinHole

    multiple people did in point of fact, panic?

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