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Lawrence O'Donnell features my friend and colleague Bill Begg, MD testifying at the public hearing in Newtown this week:
“… what I’m asking for is (that) you consider a stronger assault weapons ban, elimination of the sale of semi-automatic weapons, restrictions on the size of magazine clips, number of rounds, extend background checks and also please let us do some gun research that’s real… Allow me as a medical doctor, when I see a patient or when my colleagues see a patient, when I educate them on the effects of alcohol or tobacco, safe sex, motor vehicle accidents, can I please talk to them about the risks of gun violence? Please?”
What CT does may be ultimately different than what the US does, but it'll take state efforts to deal with weapons that cross city lines and national efforts to deal with weapons that cross state lines.

Ken Dixon/CT Post:

The Legislature's mission is clear

If Connecticut doesn't end up with the toughest gun-control laws in the nation, the General Assembly will have failed its post-Sandy Hook School mission. Simple as that.

This was dawning on me last Wednesday night, about two-thirds of the way through the nearly 6-hour public hearing in Newtown High School.

Sitting on the stage, set to basting temperatures by the TV lights, were about 50 of the state's top lawmakers, exhibited behind desks for the 500 mostly local residents who showed up.

Gun-control advocates outnumbered gun enthusiasts by about 10-1, among the 80 people who spoke...

Yes, the tide has shifted against the National Rifle Association, particularly in this state.


RT @joshtpm: Awesome beyond belief. NRA released list of enemies including ABA, AMA, Mel Brooks, Chaka khan || Chaka Khan? Chaka Khan...
@KagroX via TweetDeck

More politics and pundits below the fold.

Hugh Bailey/CT Post:

Working on behalf of the powerless

The angry letters practically write themselves.

Illegal means illegal. Stop rewarding law-breakers. And on and on.

Few issues lend themselves to demagoguery as easily as immigration. So the idea of allowing people referred to as illegal immigrants to obtain driver's licenses from the state of Connecticut will be a nonstarter to many people.

Which doesn't make it a bad idea.

The justifications are simple. Police need to know who they're dealing with, either at a traffic stop or the scene of a crime. The roads will be safer because a license requires a driving test. And the possibility of insuring thousands of currently uninsured drivers should lead to reduced rates for everyone.

Jill Lawrence/National Journal:
Obama's Bad-Cop Act is Working

The president's second-term demeanor is annoying the GOP. But it's playing fine outside the Beltway.

Let’s stipulate that there’s deep mistrust and an even deeper ideological chasm between Republicans and Democrats, and neither will be fixed with bowling parties. That doesn’t mean we are doomed to paralysis. In today’s Washington, the path to progress is cold politics: locating the intersection of self-interest for both parties. Immigration reform, which Republicans need badly, is one of those intersections. Gun research and background checks may be another. Taxes and spending are the stickiest issues, especially with this week’s GDP news foreshadowing an economic slowdown if the federal government makes sharp spending cutbacks. But there is room for compromise if both sides are convinced it’s in their interest.

Still, Republicans should be forewarned: They'll be dealing with a president who is feeling less patient and more empowered than he was in his first term and one who, for now, has the public in his corner.

Roger Simon/Politico:
Police have testified that their greatest opportunity to rush shooters is when the shooter must stop firing to reload. If the shooter doesn’t have to reload for a long time, that opportunity is diminished.

None of which is convincing to Gayle Trotter.

“You are a large man, tall man, a tall man,” Trotter said to one senator who questioned the need for large ammo magazines. “You are not a young mother who has a young child with her. You cannot understand.

“You are not a woman stuck in her house, not able to defend her children, not able to leave her child, not able to go seek safety on the phone with 911.”

This might be understandable if Trotter lived in Syria and needed to defend her family on a daily basis. But she lives in the United States. There is certainly violent crime in the United States, but little of it comes from criminals who kick down the doors of homes and come after women and children with guns blazing.

Charles Blow/NY Times:
On the verge of the 100th anniversary of her birth this Monday comes a fascinating new book, “The Rebellious Life of Mrs. Rosa Parks,” by Jeanne Theoharis, a Brooklyn College professor. It argues that the romanticized, children’s-book story of a meek seamstress with aching feet who just happened into history in a moment of uncalculated resistance is pure mythology.

As Theoharis points out, “Rosa’s family sought to teach her a controlled anger, a survival strategy that balanced compliance with militancy.”

Jim Sleeper/NY Times:
“You’ve come a long way,” Mr. Koch wrote me in 1994, after reading a column of mine. I wish I could say he’d come a long way, too. But his courage, candor, principle and almost wild love for New York didn’t trump the fears and enthusiasms that marred his judgment. One of his last public political acts, his successful appeal to Jewish voters in Queens to elect a Republican congressional candidate to send the Obama administration a message about its policies toward Israel, strengthened a House majority perverted by people who would assail him as furiously as leftist activists did in 1979.

I can almost hear him saying, “Of course, I’d have wrestled them down, too!” His belligerence was his strength, but also his tragic flaw: he rallied a city in crisis, but he couldn’t redeem it — or himself.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 04:30 AM PST.

Also republished by Repeal or Amend the Second Amendment (RASA).

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Comment Preferences

  •  Of course we could pay for more police (21+ / 0-)

    like more civilized countries do. That would be good for the economy and make everyone safer. But no, some of us would rather do it ourselves. And that has led to a civilian arms race with no end in sight.

    We're fools whether we dance or not, so we might as well dance.

    by PowWowPollock on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 04:40:45 AM PST

    •  The war on Marijuana is our guide. (15+ / 0-)

      Americans are HAPPY to blow money they don't have (We just print as much as we need now) to chase pot smokers and accomplish nothing.

      Cops LOVE it because it has really enhanced budgets, watered-down constitutional protections and helped them earn a living chasing basically non-dangerous people.

      Americans totally overlook the vast amount of crime this has created, in the overall war on drugs. Gangs have been given a great source of tax-free funding as have the Cartels in Mexico. Violence springs up along trafficiking routes as organizations fight for control of profitable routes. The Police actively, daily, support the profits for these organizations with their ever-diligent chasing of pot smokers and other low-level drug users.

      An arrest for marijuana every 42 seconds isn't really helping American 1 tiny bit, but goddammit, this is what responsible serious adults value.

      When america finally learns to listen to us DFH's and do things right, you'll start to find that other world we believe is possible.

      But not until.

      Sad but true.

      The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

      by xxdr zombiexx on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 06:05:48 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Jobs and the economy = more taxes, more (0+ / 0-)

      police and less need for both.

      This administration loses focus easily, or really doesn't see the suffering as very important.

      LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

      by dinotrac on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 08:47:11 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  they can multitask better than the press (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        koNko, argomd

        I swear you'll be complaining until they personally call you and offer you a x3 raise.

        meanwhile in the real world, there's recovery on the private side and austerity on the public side.

        you want better? don't vote for republlcans until the economy is back on track. The House is the reason there isn't better news. They are committed to see Obama fail, regardless of what happens to the rest of us.

        "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

        by Greg Dworkin on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 09:13:27 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  In your real world, things are rosy, I'm sure. (0+ / 0-)

          I have to live out in the real world where people aren't doing so well.

          We can't all be doctors.

          LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

          by dinotrac on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 09:17:07 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Right, doctors don't live in the real world. (0+ / 0-)

            Particularly those working in emergency rooms.

            Just a playground for pampered pets.

            What about my Daughter's future?

            by koNko on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 09:28:32 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Doctors with established practices tend (0+ / 0-)

              to hang out with other professional people.  They are far more likely to be impressed by a minor uptick in numbers than, say, an electrician who's trying stay afloat when half his clients are either not paying their bills or stretching them out as long as they possibly can.

              LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

              by dinotrac on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 10:07:57 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Your extensive knowledge of doctors impresses. (0+ / 0-)

                Are you a doctor, or maybe researched their behavior extensively?

                Again, you make an important point. Doctors hang with doctors and have little contact with the general public, so they are pretty insulated from the real world.

                What about my Daughter's future?

                by koNko on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 10:43:06 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Last I looked, doctors were people. (0+ / 0-)

                  Though some seem not to think so.

                  LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

                  by dinotrac on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 10:44:54 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  my block and neighbors (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    dinotrac

                    consist of bus drivers, electricians, delivery guys, hair dressers and plumbers.

                    Sometimes you  try to be nasty, but it doesn't work 'cause you're too nice ;-P

                    I have a good feel for the CT economy, the rest is only what I read. But job growth is real. So say the numbers.

                    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

                    by Greg Dworkin on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 10:55:47 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Job growth is real but puny, so say the numbers. (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Greg Dworkin

                      It's good enough to tread water, and a little bit more. Not good enough to reach back into the long-term unemployed or, really, anybody with strikes against them in the employment context.

                      We can't afford to pretend otherwise, and, honestly, we don't even need to be compassionate to keep it front and center.

                      A strong economy makes many things possible that are hard to sell when times are tough.  Sustainable energy and improved health care -- actual health care reform come -- come to mind.

                      And I am not nice.
                      Just ask my wife.

                      LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

                      by dinotrac on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 11:28:13 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  the discussion should be about the size and (0+ / 0-)

                        speed of the recovery. However, you made into 'they don't care'.  That's of course, bullshit.

                        Assuming the govt has a role in the economic recovery (because otherwise you have no axe to grind), it requires more investment and also the help of a non-contracting govt.

                        See comments about republicans.

                        Seems to me your comments fall under: "Rs are wrong and Ds are right so I am mad at Ds because Rs block their plans."

                        head scratcher in terms of what you're trying to say here, dino.

                        OTOH we all agree we need more and better. No argument there. Housing coming back (and it seems to be) should be a big boost but will take more time.

                        BTW, I am prepared to believe your wife.

                        "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

                        by Greg Dworkin on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 11:52:04 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Housing market is a double-edged sword, (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          Greg Dworkin

                          and that depends mightily on where you sit in the current economy.

                          First and foremost:

                          Hooray.  It's good -- very very good that housing is picking up and prices are starting the climb back.  Even better that the last jobs report showed 28,000 new construction jobs.  Those are people who sorely need the work and the work pays.

                          Kind of a bite for those who've lost their homes: somebody else makes money on their loss, they will have a harder time finding rental property, and, come the time they recover financially, homes will be tougher to buy.

                          No good way out of that, I'm afraid, but good to remember a little compassion for those who've been blasted.

                          LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

                          by dinotrac on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 12:45:53 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  agreed (0+ / 0-)

                            to say things are getting better (and they are) doesn't mean it's getting better for everyone equally or at all.

                            At the same time, you can't yell at everyone who has a job as if it's their faul--- hey, wait a minute... who's the liberal and who's the conservative?

                            "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

                            by Greg Dworkin on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 01:58:00 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I'm very happy for everybody who has a good (0+ / 0-)

                            job and everybody who has managed to ride out this recession/depression without getting singed.

                            Seriously and sincerely.

                            I do, however, take exception to casual recitations like "we avoided a depression", "things are sooooo much better than they were in 2009", etc, because that depends very much on who you are.

                            I especially take exception to the lazy (or, in some cases, intentional) abuse of statistics.  

                            I know it's tricky as hell, given the very way we define things:

                            One common definition of a recession:

                            consecutive down quarters in the GDP?
                            One common definition of a depression:
                            a long recession (and by long, I mean a couple of years).
                            Do you see the problem with those definitions?

                            They're dynamic definitions, based on changes in the state of the economy.  An economy can crash and burn, then tread water, adding GDP and jobs roughly in sync with population increase.  That economy would not be in a state of recession or depression, no matter how many people were left out of work or homeless.  And we've seen how U6 unemployment (U3, too, btw)  can do down as people lose hope and leave the labor market.

                            It's more fun to focus on the winners, for sure, but -- do you remember the fall of 2005, when riots broke out in France and cars burned in the streets of Paris?

                            One of the underlying reasons given for the outbreak was the relegation of immigrants to a permanent second-class status that kept them from ever enjoying the employment opportunities, benefits and protections that most French workers take for granted.

                            Not that we lack for examples in our own country (Detroit, 1967, et al): put people under your heel long enough and they're likely to push back in very uncomfortable ways.

                            Better not to lose track and to be mindful of what's "more important" -- or not.

                            LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

                            by dinotrac on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 02:29:15 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I prefer a recession when you're out of work (0+ / 0-)

                            and a depression when I'm out of work.

                            More immediacy.

                            I don't think we are where your examples were, but staying out of a depression is real.

                            "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

                            by Greg Dworkin on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 02:55:07 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Economist's definitions and not useless, but we (0+ / 0-)

                            must be mindful of what they actually describe.

                            LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

                            by dinotrac on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 03:24:04 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

      •  Well then, why don't you diary the topic (0+ / 0-)

        To elaborate this?

        What about my Daughter's future?

        by koNko on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 09:26:40 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Thanks Greg, it is certainly time to act when over (17+ / 0-)

    100k people are getting shot every year (one every 5 minutes), of which over 8k are children (17 and under; data from the CDC WISQARS database for 2011 - or one every hour).

    Sensible firearm regulations are needed, but first we must free our Congress from the grip of the NRA, and that may take a while.

    Then they came for me - and by that time there was nobody left to speak up.

    by DefendOurConstitution on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 04:45:20 AM PST

  •  not sure i really agree with (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Greg Dworkin, xxdr zombiexx, drmah

    an across the board ban on all semi auto weapons and i doubt there's even close to a majority on it either

    that said interesting morning and looks like i have a lot of reading to do

    •  there is with the public (20+ / 0-)

      but perhaps not in congress.

      60% want in done in CT, 50% in the country according to UCONN/Courant.

      Gallup says:

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 04:58:02 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I note 82% support for increased funding (10+ / 0-)

        for mental health services.  With the current House, what are the chances of that passing?  I would predict a cut in current mental health services as being more likely as part of a deal over the deficit

        •  White House SEEMS to be cutting mental health (5+ / 0-)

          I work for a specialized MEdicare program and they are cutting, cutting, cutting our per diem for people.

          They don't want them in the hospital - oh God no.

          But they don't want to pay to keep these people OUT of the hospital.

          It's only been 4 years since we got rid of Bush: America's healing from that trauma hasn't yet begun.

          Basically, we just need to re-install the 1990's.

          The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

          by xxdr zombiexx on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 05:11:45 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  yep, the advent of DRGs marked the beginning (6+ / 0-)

            of gaming the system.  For example for SNF pts, there used to be the game of "swing beds" where MC pts who overstay their DRGs are discharged to the swing bed (which consisted of a nurse putting a new chart at bedside so pt physically remained in same bed but was administratively transferred) and then readmitted  48 hours for a fresh DRG
            (for Kossacks not in healthcare this is probably gibberish)
            So the system games the hospitals and the hospitals game the system.  Yep we need to go back to before the DRGs.  

          •  Our state has cut, (5+ / 0-)

            excuse me, slashed our mental health funding in this state (Kansas). TMental Health services have lost 52% of their funding since 2000, so you can imagine what it's like out here.

            Critics of millions of dollars in state funding cuts to community mental health services proposed by Gov. Sam Brownback say the policy shift will place intense pressure on jails, emergency rooms and state mental hospitals to care for thousands of people in crisis.

            The Republican governor asked the 2011 Legislature to approve a budget plan wiping out $10.2 million shared by more than two dozen licensed centers now on the front lines of treatment for 70,000 patients throughout Kansas.

            The move would strip $976,000 from Valeo Behavioral Health Care in Topeka, $601,000 from Pawnee Mental Health Services in Manhattan and $248,000 from Bert Nash Community Mental Health Center in Lawrence. Facilities serving Johnson and Sedgwick counties would both lose more than $1 million.

            At the same time, Brownback recommended deletion of $5 million in “family-centered” grants for delivery of therapy to 5,000 children each month with severe emotional disorders and to support their families.

            http://cjonline.com/...

            He turned down federal money for starting state exchanges, which expanded Medicaid and Medicare services.
            Then right after the shooting, the RGA tweeted something out about Brownback increasing the funding for mental health services. Not exactly, as it turns out- he told the agency they had to find the $10 million he's directing towards "crisis intervention services" from somewhere else in their budget:

            Pete Zevenbergen, director of Wyandotte Center, also thought the governor's plan was encouraging but has some reservations.

            “I think that this is a very worthy effort to focus dollars on some of the greatest need, and I’m pleased with that” said Zevenbergen. “The concern I have is will it take money away from something else, and more than likely, it will.”

            http://www.kcur.org/...

            “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

            by skohayes on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 05:30:05 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Are the Dems working on replacing him in 14? (6+ / 0-)

              My family is from MO & KS. I was there 65 - 75. Wildcat.
              Have cousins both states. I read this stuff and wonder when Kansas is going to figure out what happened and change it back.

              I hope it doesn't take an in state massacre to force the issue. Hickenlooper decided to increase state mental health services after Aurora and got it through the gold dome. Now we have both houses so more good things are likely. Although Howdy Doody is too centrist-R to be reliable, he won't look very good refusing to sign legislation both chambers have passed.

              I keep waiting for someone to point out that while we are considering all the gun legislation would be a really good time to recheck the Violence Against Women Act so that it dovetails with the other and pass both.

              DC being rational. What am I thinking?

              "People, even more than things, have to be restored, renewed, revived, reclaimed and redeemed; never throw out anyone. " Audrey Hepburn "A Beautiful Woman"

              by Ginny in CO on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 06:57:22 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  some things will happen at state level (8+ / 0-)

          and will drive incremental progress. Some things will happen otherwise, maybe through ACA.

          What if I don't have mental health coverage in my employer's insurance plan? Will the ACA change that?

          Employers with 50 or more workers can continue to not offer the benefits. But small group and individual plans will be required to offer the coverage in 2014 through online exchanges created under the law.

          http://www.pbs.org/...

          "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

          by Greg Dworkin on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 05:11:49 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  I'm familar wiht that (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        happymisanthropy

        but I don't see anything about support for banning every and any semi automatic action

      •  Note how fast we chase a subsidiary issue. (3+ / 0-)

        I concede - mental health is important. Liberals acknowledge that well before the gun crowd ever cuddled up to the territory, having watched governments diss mental health coverage, funding and facilities over the years.

        The issue is the availability of guns, as one commenter put it, The Civilian Arms Race.

        By definition, we can call anyone (soldiers and police officers aside) who picks up a dangerous instrument and uses it to do harm to another, "unstable", probably "deranged", likely psychotic. But consider building a system that identifies, reports and somehow "cares for" individuals who might pick up a gun and massacre kids in school. What would that look like? How effective would it be? How likely that it would identify and report people who'll never touch a gun?

        Guns are the core issue, gang. Their ready availability, their prevalence in society.

        2014 IS COMING. Build up the Senate. Win back the House : 17 seats. Plus!

        by TRPChicago on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 06:35:04 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  The fact is that MOST gun owners have nothing (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          RonV, drmah, rageagnstmach

          to do with massacres OR America's day to day gun violence.

          I know 'some' bristle at the fact guns don't shoot themselves, but guns do not shoot themselves. It is an inescapable salient fact. Annoying, interferes with a great rant.

          Restoration of gun violence stats would really help show us who actually does the shooting. Then we would know what to target. Banners are like the gun folks that just blast away at sounds in the night.

          Gangs. If I was a firearm owner, I'd have to be offended if you told me I was no different than  a gang member because I had a firearm. I am not responsible for other people's actions even though some buy into the parlor game of "We are all Complicit". Blow that out your ass. I am NOT complicit.

          General Criminal activity. Aside from speeding, and touching marijuana, I don't break laws. I am not responsible for the dumbass who robs a liquor store. Or your mom. I didn't rob anybody. I am not complicit in such activity just by owning a "murder tool."

          Massacres: Because of the unhinged emotional intensity of banners, I have to address this. I am not responsible fo massacres. Hell, I work in mental health and try to keep people from killing themselves or from running amok when they are out of medication (for 1 of 25000 different needless reasons). I am not responsible or complicit in massacres.

          I'm posting this half as a linkable footnote so I don't have to retype this sentiment 20 times, when some new banner needs a breath of fresh factual discourse.

          The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

          by xxdr zombiexx on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 06:49:11 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  the idea is to do what works (6+ / 0-)

            and data/research is crucial.

            "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

            by Greg Dworkin on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 07:26:10 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Gun -owners will continue to defend guns with (0+ / 0-)

            mass destruction capacity even after their own children are shot.  They just don't care! They consider children collateral damage, just like civilian deaths in a war zone.  The JUST DON"T CARE about humans!!

          •  True that, Zomb, but most car drivers don't have (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ChurchofBruce, Minnesota Deb

            ... or cause fatal accidents, either. Yet we require licenses, license renewals, insurance and car inspections. We keep master records of car ID numbers and traffic citations. We take official government action based on those requirements.

            The fact that a parked car presents no danger does not mean it is not dangerous or shouldn't be regulated in ways society has come to regard as reasonable.

            I'm not suggesting you're a gang member, or the same as one, or complicit with them. But if you own a gun ...

            I do think you have a dangerous item that is attractive to children and many adults who do not own or have access to a gun, as well as those who do. I hope you prevent others from getting to it as best you are able. I hope that if you carry it lawfully, someone does not take it away from you. Or assume you're a Bad Guy and feel threatened. I hope that if you carry your gun into a theatre or a politician's rally or an elementary school and a Bad Guy starts shooting, you will not pull your weapon and use it, unless you are a very well-trained SWAT officer.

            Just because I think about these things more now and want to do something about them, does not make you a bad guy at all. But neither does that suggest nothing shoud be done because you will be inconvenienced even though you are not culpable.

            2014 IS COMING. Build up the Senate. Win back the House : 17 seats. Plus!

            by TRPChicago on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 08:46:54 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  but that likely does not apply (13+ / 0-)

      to hand guns. The distinction between assault weapons and semiautomatic is real, but lost on the public.

      What they want banned is military style rifles, an AWB without loopholes. The want the Bushmaster off the streets.

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 04:59:52 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  btw all the gun polls are here (10+ / 0-)

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 05:01:26 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Ban on Semi automatic weapons (8+ / 0-)

      I highly doubt it will happen at the federal level.  However in CT, the prospect of it passing is much more likely.  When 10-1 are in favor of it, the politicians have to listen.  That's not a minority against banning semi automatic weapons.  When you're outnumbered in a political debate by 10-1 you're irrelevant.  

      This is your world These are your people You can live for yourself today Or help build tomorrow for everyone -8.75, -8.00

      by DisNoir36 on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 05:03:10 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  question would be what would it accomplish (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      duhban

      if the purpose is to reduce rate of fire.  I don't know about lever actions (Rifleman does not count) but local duck hunters here prefer pumps because they feel they have a faster rate of fire combined with fewer jams.

    •  Real gun research! Dr.'s point desparetly needed (0+ / 0-)

      to be heard.  The Gun Lobby has controlledd the conversation to the point that no one else is allowed to be heard.  

  •  I have never understood the logic of denying (14+ / 0-)

    undocumented workers DLs.  First of all is the misconception that all undocumented aliens are Mexican migrant workers but many are from other countries who have overstayed their work, student or tourist visa as well.

    http://www.publicagenda.org/...
    http://immigration.procon.org/...

    The purpose of DLs is also to enable people to register and insure autos.  Why it is preferable for me to have an accident where the other driver has no insurance, who may have "borrowed" tags on the vehicle, may have no registration so ownership is impossible to determine, and so on, as opposed to having an accident where the other driver is immediately identified and ownership of the vehicle determined very quickly and then his insurance is on the hook if he is at fault.

    The argument is that the DL counts as ID and it can be used to falsely claim citizenship.  Fake IDs are readily available and if DLs can be used for IDs then issue alien DLs.  Exactly why is having the other guy insured such a lousy idea?

    •  it's visceral and not logical (7+ / 0-)

      an interesting vignette from the life of Ed Koch, linked above:

      One of his most emblematic, contradictory comments came in a Brooklyn “town meeting” in the early 1980s, where I watched him field questions from politically conservative, white ethnic and Jewish constituents. A man complained about new hiring standards to increase female and Hispanic representation in the police department: “Mr. Koch, why do you lower the height requirements just to include them? We need policemen who are big and tall and command respect.”

      The speaker was barely finished before the mayor raised his eyebrows in mock astonishment. “Have you ever seen a 5-foot-4 Puerto Rican with a gun?” The audience roared; his aides winced. Happily for them, no big media were present, sparing liberal New Yorkers the spectacle of a mayor using racism to defend affirmative action.

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 05:04:41 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  No DL means no insurance or registration. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      entlord, OleHippieChick, Sue B

      Makes it easier profile them and stop them at 'check points' and bust them, impound their car and so on.  Here in CT for example they cannot register a car which forces many to get it registered out of state.  However the local police targets out of state plates, especially if a brown person is driving that car.  The result is many don't drive unless they have to out of a fear they'll get arrested for some bullshit charge like having an air freshener hanging off the rear view mirror and get deported (true story about air freshener).  There are ways around it.  I have a few cars registered and insured in my name which my friends 'borrow' from time to time for example.  But even then the end result is you have a segment of the population that is very fearful of driving lest they get profiled.

      It's not supposed to make sense to anyone other than xenophobes and racists.  Their ultimate goal is to drive them out by making life so difficult and unbearable that they will self deport.  But in doing that they make life difficult and expensive for us as well.

      This is your world These are your people You can live for yourself today Or help build tomorrow for everyone -8.75, -8.00

      by DisNoir36 on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 05:19:35 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I never understood the logic of not having... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      OleHippieChick, skohayes, mmacdDE

      ...a national ID card either.

      That is why DLs have gained so much importance over our daily lives -- from voting to getting on a plane to getting a job.

      In many cases outside of driving, they're filling a void.

      "Michael Moore, who was filming a movie about corporate welfare called 'Capitalism: A Love Story,' sought and received incentives."

      by Bush Bites on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 05:21:32 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Because Republicans & CTists won't allow it (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Bush Bites, skohayes, Miggles, pelagicray

        Any time national IDs have been proposed, the extreme religious right comes out screaming against them. "Small government" types don't believe we need the government to keep track of people this way (although I don't see many burning their social security cards). Conspiracy types claim its a way to start the new world order and they'll be used to round up the undesireables when the time comes.

      •  which is how handicapped people disappear (6+ / 0-)

        once they can no longer drive.  Without a DL you do not exist and somehow DMV does not understand why a handicapped person cannot stand in line for hours to get a photo ID.  (I had a doozy of an argument trying to get an ID from DMV for a relative who was in a coma at the time.  They insisted she release her medical records to them or appear in person to testify she was in a coma)

        •  I would have (0+ / 0-)

          Had an ambulance bring her to the DMV. With a nurse.

          And then charged the state for it.

        •  Sounds as if some ADA lawsuits may be in order. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          entlord

          This is definitely a problem that has a serious effect on elderly and handicapped people. Some states seem to make an effort to assist while others make no accommodations.

          With ID now getting to be critical in voting issues perhaps the organizations representing those disadvantaged and our side of the political spectrum need to focus some real efforts here. I've long recommended that our political organizations that mobilize rides to the polls for those that cannot drive do a bit of thinking ahead and make some effort to arrange assistance in obtaining state ID. The result in one case was "crickets" even though there was considerable passion against Republican ID bills.

          The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. [Elbert Hubbard]

          by pelagicray on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 07:57:34 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  excellent idea nt (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            pelagicray
            •  Unfortunately, it has been my experience that the (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              entlord

              few actual organizations I've had an opportunity to mention this in have largely rolled collective eyes.

              There is an overall problem with those that have great difficulty in mobility where states require personal appearance at motor vehicle offices. That should become an ADA issue of reasonable accommodation. I believe (have not researched that) some states do have mobile units that visit nursing homes and such. As we move toward de facto national ID in the form of state issued photo ID that should become a requirement upon states, possibly with provision for a reasonable fee for such services.

              The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. [Elbert Hubbard]

              by pelagicray on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 08:59:29 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  Seniors in nursing homes lose all rights too. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          entlord
      •  I think DLs with the hologram are national ID. (0+ / 0-)

        I ♥ President Obama and have his back.
        Hands off SocSec, Medicare and Medicaid. NO subsidies to rich Corps.
        Rich pay more, bloated DoD steal less. End war on Afghanistan 01/01/14.

        by OleHippieChick on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 05:43:33 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Because of what MRobDC touches on in this group (0+ / 0-)

        of comments. I say "touches" because I think it goes further. For an older generation there is definitely an aversion to "papers please" due to echoes of, if nothing else, WW II and Cold War movies where police states made that demand. To our far right and left the very idea of "they know where you live" escalates into what may be a bit of irrational fear.

        At the same time I am old enough to remember a day when I could go about my business for months pretty much anonymous, with a little paper card, black and white and in some really "modern places" a touch of color, without photo that any enterprising high school student with an artistic bent could alter—and that phony copy showing you were drinking age was not uncommon. So, college kids or straying husbands alike could check into motels paying cash and with another name available if required. Out of town and wanting to make any town "Vegas"? Yep, pretty easy.

        Perhaps years of travel, sometimes in dictatorships where my papers were demanded, once with little machine pistol muzzles in my face, and also places that sometimes seem even more free in many ways than here with national ID I'm a little less knee jerk against. In those latter countries that little ID, though it or a passport are required to check into a real hotel (not sure about "love motels"), it also serves as a health insurance card, in some a free pass on all public transportation, free entry into museums (think Smithsonian with all residents with ID free, foreign visitors paying a fee in lieu of tax support) and so on.

        Many of the EU countries have national ID and stronger privacy protections than we in the U.S., yet there is objection explaining its reasons. Our ACLU has issues with the idea. On the other hand, I don't think many EU nationals feel oppressed by the things. You can check the countries out here for specific examples as in France. Brazil has a different mix, with this Wikipedia article being a reasonable overview noting there is no requirement to carry the card and that it is state issued to a national standard. That is something of a more formalized ancestor of our "Real ID" national standard except states do not "opt out." By the way, by the federal constitution, anyone over 60 (could be 65) is entitled to ride public transportation (even privately run systems) free. That card also entitles one to the basic completely free medical care, Sistema Único de Saúde - SUS.

        In my opinion, and in my arguments pro and con, it increasingly seems we have such a system right now; it is just a "Wild West" one. Weak privacy laws and the internet along with all sorts of state issued ID, credit card tracking and such we have an ad-hoc system that can really track as well as a national ID—without the legal restraints of the EU. In 1960 I could perhaps live a pretty full life and swim in society anonymously. That now pretty much takes real "criminal" skills and contacts.

        Perhaps a "well regulated" national ID would not be such a bad idea at all. I think I'd trade that for some laws with teeth about private tracking and states selling my driver's license information to the marketplace!

        The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. [Elbert Hubbard]

        by pelagicray on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 08:46:36 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  I am not sure (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      entlord

      why people think undocumented people are going to go into a government agency and admit that they're in the country illegally, then give the state their address in order to get a driver's license.
      I mean, I'm sure some do, but the biggest problem we have around here is lack of insurance, not a lack of driver's licenses.

      “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

      by skohayes on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 05:46:37 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  As I ask people what they think will help (5+ / 0-)

    imagine my surprise when I hear frequent calls to "end the war on drugs".

    The War on Drugs drives crime rates in the country.

    That is if the goal is to reduce the number of gun-caused assaults. I am assuming people wish to accomplish this.

    The 'assault-style weapon' issue is something I'm not sure how to approach: I'm enough of a shooter to understand that the AR-15  - even though I've never touched one myself - is sort of the Lexus of guns. I am not 'scared" of them, I'd love to shoot one sometime at  a range or field. Not at all motivated to get up and go do it. I just add this as context to the following.

    I have some disbelief about the 'essential hunting weapon' bit. I think on one hand people can use what they want to hunt. It';s none of my business. On the other hand as a hunter (of sorts) and a shooter (of sorts) I don't believe it's 'essential' for hunting or even all that necessary.

    My rifle is an airgun, and a single shot. I like the feeling of having to do something right the first time. I do NOT believe a 30-rnd [insert your preferred term for bullet holder] is 'sporting'. I also scoff at the reported miseries of having to reload when shooting for fun....  but that's me.

    The attempt to ban guns by banning pieces, while well-meaning and possibly a good way to go, falls WAY short by banning one thing or another. I am ticked by the focus on thumbhole stocks. You should be able to hear my eyes rolling. THumbhole stocks are superior to old-school hunting rifle stocks, as far as I am concerned - comfortable and a lot me stable. Both my air rifles have them. Personal preference.

    I think it will be more useful to have 2 or 3 element combinations on semi-auto guns, partly because one can easily and quickly mount all manner of attachments to many guns, other than the dreaded AR-15.

    But the other concern I have is that AR-15s are involved in almost no day to day crime. One one hand, a full and complete ban on them does zilch to address day to day gun violence and accidents. I don't have an attachment to the gun but I do have concerns about people accomplishing a ban on something that fails to save one life. We should, I think, want to avoid such a waste of time and resources.

    Preventing the massacres is of supreme importance but I have no bright ideas on preventing something so statistically rare. One has a better chance of getting hit by lightening and trying to predict where lightening will strike next...well... have at it.

    > Reducing the dynamics that drive the general crime rate (end the war on drugs, prosecute Wall Street and fix America's vast ecxonomic disparities)

    > Tightening sales and resale mechanisms.

    >"Registration' can work if there are real guarantees this isn't just a trick, basically, to confiscate guns after people have jumped through all the hoops to buy them legally.

    Registration can be useful in finding out, say, that Joe Blow from Kokomo is a basic law-abiding guy, but next week he's busted in Texas with cocaine. His gun licence could be revoked for criminal activity. JUST AN EXAMPLE. Do not have a cow over an example.

    Many people will have to be convinced registration does not equal pre-confiscation or all the good ideas will likely get thrown out with the bathwater.

    Tightening up storage laws. I doubt there's too much disagreement that to many kids find guns and end up injured or dead. As a therapist, I have to essentially blame parents and slack attitudes about gun ownership for those situations. (If mom and dad hid/secured the guns well and the child sneaked around all the security then the child can be summarily blamed.)

    End the end I believe the conversation is about saving lives and reducing injuries and needless traumas we now have every single day.

    MOST of that is preventable - I have to believe that.

    It's hard to say "boo" on this topic without writing War and Peace.

    The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

    by xxdr zombiexx on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 05:06:57 AM PST

    •  you left out two words there (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      a2nite, xxdr zombiexx

      they would be in your last sentence and it would read "it's hard FOR ME to say 'boo'". War on drugs, absolutely, but then you succumb to "they'll take away my guns" even though you know yours isn't targeted.

      -7.75, -8.10; . . . Seneca Falls, Selma and Stonewall (h/t cooper888)

      by Dave in Northridge on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 05:12:15 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Dave. Read carefully. Please (2+ / 0-)

        I do NOT have guns.

        I do not talk about fear of losing my guns.

        When you banners hear anything you don't like, Im a paid shill for the NRA and I personally hang out with Wayne.

        If they take away people's guns, I am not directly affected.

        I am focused on the 'logic' of what is being floated.

        Do you think I want people to get hurt?

        Be honest.

        The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

        by xxdr zombiexx on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 05:15:36 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'm not a "banner" (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          xxdr zombiexx

          and I don't think you want people to get hurt any more than I do. I agree that the "War on Drugs" causes a BIG problem. But then, should a private citizen have access to the entire arsenal the military commands?

          I also wonder about a phrase like "the Lexus" of guns. This suggests the only difference between a single-shot rifle is a difference of degree, not a difference of kind.

          There's also a HUGE leap between my saying you think it's complicated and calling you a paid shill for the NRA. Did you really need to be that defensive?

          -7.75, -8.10; . . . Seneca Falls, Selma and Stonewall (h/t cooper888)

          by Dave in Northridge on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 06:07:20 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I accept you aren't a banner. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Dave in Northridge

            I said that to make a point. I believ you got it.

            I wont say that to you again.

            As far as the paid shill thing - you haven't actually said that but a number of the banners have been dumb enough to go there. It IS funny, but since this is a really serious issue, it';s a real mistake on their part and betrays how sloppy their 'thinking' is on the subject.

            I don;t think a person needs "access to the entire arsenal the military commands" and I can't  be any clearer about assault-style weapons.

            Ever drive a crappy car and then drive a really nice car? Notice any difference? I sure do. That is all the comment means. I imagine the best retort is "that is beside the point".

            Some here will never participate in a discussion that acknowledges a lot of people own guns and never harm another person. This has to be part of a reality-based discussion.

            And just as that is true, the gun stats project would show WHO has trouble with 'responsible gun ownership' and could provide a more scientific approach to how to determine who might need more scrutiny than others.

            If I had 12 different firearms, that James Yeager guy would require a lot more scrutiny than me. It's just a fact. I haven't threatened to go on a killing spree because people don't agree with me. Im just a day to day guy who keeps to myself.

            If we put together a really good package of regulations and the rightwing trashes all of it because of, for example "registration" (not further specified) then more people will remain at risk because the whole package got turned down.

            That is why I address that and that's (largely) my objection.

            The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

            by xxdr zombiexx on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 06:23:05 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  Specifically: (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        happymisanthropy
        "Registration' can work if there are real guarantees this isn't just a trick, basically, to confiscate guns after people have jumped through all the hoops to buy them legally.

        ***

        Many people will have to be convinced registration does not equal pre-confiscation or all the good ideas will likely get thrown out with the bathwater.

        I am often told that in politics we have to have compromise, that the Perfect is the enemy of that which is good enough. We have to be pragmatic. We are thrilled with half a loaf.

        I simply address options because OTHERS WILL HOWL over anything that even smells remotely like a confiscation plan.

        One addresses those concerns to get the rest of what one wants through a contentious political set-up like our Congress.

        If people end up absolutely demanding full consfiscation - which a lot of people here consider the only solution and are unwilling to think outside that tiny box - then you can expect the gun-obsessed to shoot it out of the sky and little to nothing may have a chance of passing, which is exactly what wingnuts want.

        We are attempting to accomplish SOMETHING, yes?

        This is exactly what I mean when I say registration should come with guarantees. Nothing more.

        The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

        by xxdr zombiexx on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 05:38:55 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  There are a lot of (3+ / 0-)

          so-called "law abiding" gun owners who don't register their guns.
          There would be no logical way to go out and go into homes and confiscate banned guns when there are millions out there. However, if police go into your home for other reasons and find illegal guns, then you deal with the consequences.

          “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

          by skohayes on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 05:56:01 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  They seem ever so happy to raid people's home (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            happymisanthropy

            for an allegation of marijuana.

            Shit, they'll raid the wrong home and not suffer consequence one.

            I am certain that if banned we'd have the War on Guns and cops would do as they are expected to do.

            How they will rationalize NOT arresting harmless marijuana smokers as they devote resources to the Gun Hunt, I don't know. It's a slippery slope. We can't expect a rather harmless plant's prohibition to be upstaged by trying to prevent  a few hundred thousand deaths, can we?

            The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

            by xxdr zombiexx on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 06:38:10 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  I've heard that from left and right (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      xxdr zombiexx, skohayes

      interestingly enough.

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 05:13:42 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Nevermind War&Peace. It's a great idea. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      xxdr zombiexx, tb mare

      As with Joe Blow, you cannot * srsly * break the law and expect to retain your firearms. Sorry. FU.
      Like DUI. Sorry. FU. No driving, no guns. Too bad.
      If something obvious that you do makes you slammer bound, too bad.
      AT THE VERY LEAST, reschedule marijuana, ffs.
      War&Peace: I think all hunters should use bow and arrow, and knife. Wimps. And look how it's devolved when you see a Cheney at a closed hunting area with stocked birds and shooting his friend in the face; and certain Alaskans shooting animals from helicopters with automatics; half the wolves gone.
      Repulsive. Retrograde. Republican. Regressive.

      I ♥ President Obama and have his back.
      Hands off SocSec, Medicare and Medicaid. NO subsidies to rich Corps.
      Rich pay more, bloated DoD steal less. End war on Afghanistan 01/01/14.

      by OleHippieChick on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 05:32:23 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  That Trotter lady really gets melodramatic. (9+ / 0-)

    When she was talking about a home being invaded by 3, 4 or 5 violent criminals, I half expected her to keep counting up to 10.

    "Michael Moore, who was filming a movie about corporate welfare called 'Capitalism: A Love Story,' sought and received incentives."

    by Bush Bites on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 05:07:59 AM PST

  •  Ken Dixon is a tough but fair reporter (13+ / 0-)

    One of the better ones in Connecticut.  Good for him for taking on the gun "enthusiasts" who heckled a grieving parent at a public hearing.  BTW, It's strange how, in their attempt to defend the indefensible, gun "enthusiasts" are trying to change the subject by quibbling over the meaning of words like "assault riffle", "heckle", and "clips".  Anything to change the subject over the fact that their freedom to own these monstrous weapons was paid for by 26 innocent lives

    •  I prefer "slaughter weapon" to assault rifle. It (6+ / 0-)

      gets to the purpose of the gun more accurately.

      Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a Republican. But I repeat myself. Harry Truman

      by ratcityreprobate on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 05:16:42 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  That really helps advance a coherent, logical (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        skohayes

        adult discussion.

        The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

        by xxdr zombiexx on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 05:44:32 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  You're such a Democrat, Doc! (if above not snark) (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          tb mare

          It is a weapon of slaughter. Maybe something a little softer could be used, like WMD Weapon of Mass Death. Words matter. They creep into the everyday lexicon.
          Repigs use words in this manner all the time. I'm not averse to calling these military-style tactical assault weapons something that invokes an even worse image, the image these guns deserve when they're loosed on the public.

          I ♥ President Obama and have his back.
          Hands off SocSec, Medicare and Medicaid. NO subsidies to rich Corps.
          Rich pay more, bloated DoD steal less. End war on Afghanistan 01/01/14.

          by OleHippieChick on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 06:02:22 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  It's snark. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            OleHippieChick

            I think is really stupid.

            But then I think "forced birther" is stupid too. I prefer anti-choice because it is a lot more accurate in describing the over all agenda of those fuckers.

            I can call cars "global pollution machines" or "people squishers".

            I doubt I will be invited into intelligent discussions of vehicle safety.

            Murder tool, slaughter machine - stupid, over-emotional nonsense that will not make it into the rational discussion whenever that really takes off.

            People are entitled to speak as they wish, and so am I.

            I'd like to see a more coherent logical conversation emerge from the muck of what it is currently. Since people are dying, I think it's prudent to be down to earth and clear-headed.

            Others disagree.

            That's why we have votes...

            The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

            by xxdr zombiexx on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 06:12:48 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Indeed people are dying! (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              xxdr zombiexx

              Any other reason than these ugly WMDs and 30,000 deaths per year would be treated as a disease.
              That's ten 9/11s per year. Where's the outrage, the sense of proportion? Man, are we finicky.

              I ♥ President Obama and have his back.
              Hands off SocSec, Medicare and Medicaid. NO subsidies to rich Corps.
              Rich pay more, bloated DoD steal less. End war on Afghanistan 01/01/14.

              by OleHippieChick on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 06:18:29 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Just observing (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                OleHippieChick

                with over 300000 deaths per year from tobacco-related disease, that 100 9/11s a year with barely a peep of outrage.

                And alcohol still eclipses gun deaths (depending on accounting: they may be roughly similar).

                I am told these are IMPROVED stats.

                The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

                by xxdr zombiexx on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 06:26:28 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Yep. Your #s are solid. Glad they're improved. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  xxdr zombiexx

                  I have hope they'll continue to improve as less ppl smoke and drink.
                  Our outrage meters are skewed or broken. Also for all those killed in our big adventure "wars"!!!
                  I don't know where the outrage is for what you mention or anything else that takes mass numbers prematurely.
                  We as a people have become callous. It's even reflected in my own comments above. I don't care about certain people, I have no sympathy for perps of vicious crimes or the tools they use to accomplish the crimes.

                  I ♥ President Obama and have his back.
                  Hands off SocSec, Medicare and Medicaid. NO subsidies to rich Corps.
                  Rich pay more, bloated DoD steal less. End war on Afghanistan 01/01/14.

                  by OleHippieChick on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 06:39:26 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Also unpopular (0+ / 0-)

                    I think Americans have simply OD'd on violent movies. These have helped reinforce the idea that the gun is a hammer and all problems are nails.

                    Back in the 80's a kid was seeing something like 10000+ deaths on TV from a regular tv habit over time. That is desensitizing.

                    No - it doesn't affect everybody the same way but if we look at stats, we see an increase in incidents per 100000 increasing over time and I link that to movies and TV, so much of which is violent.

                    Guns have been glamorized, on one level, and have been presented as rather magical devices that supposedly protect us from all sorts of things. They can help, but the idea in most american's head is WAY overdone. To the point of magical thinking.

                    I;'d like to see a public information campaign chip away at that mindset.

                    The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

                    by xxdr zombiexx on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 06:55:18 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

    •  ... (10+ / 0-)


      Hint: if the moderator of a public meeting says you will be cleared from room if you don't shut up, you are heckling
      @davidfrum via Twitterrific

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 05:24:04 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  BTW a grieving parent is a victim of gun violence. (8+ / 0-)

      Then they came for me - and by that time there was nobody left to speak up.

      by DefendOurConstitution on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 05:31:04 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  What a contrast (5+ / 0-)

    Hmm, Gayle Trotter vs. Rosa Parks.
    And the NRA enemies list - holy cow. Made for some of the funniest reading on DKos this week, although I'm torn between laughing at the absurdity and fearing what it means to the unhinged.
    http://www.dailykos.com/...

    I'm pretty tired of being told what I care about.

    by hulibow on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 05:11:39 AM PST

  •  I was being polite... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite, OleHippieChick, ChurchofBruce

    A Poet is at the same time a force for Solidarity and for Solitude -- Pablo Neruda / Netroots Radio podcasts of The After Show with Wink & Justice can be found on Stitcher

    by justiceputnam on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 05:17:32 AM PST

  •  Are doctors prohibited by (3+ / 0-)

    law to not talk to pts about gun violence?

    Only thing more infuriating than an ignorant man is one who tries to make others ignorant for his own gain. Crashing Vor

    by emmasnacker on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 05:23:36 AM PST

    •  In some states, like FL, they are. n/t (6+ / 0-)

      Then they came for me - and by that time there was nobody left to speak up.

      by DefendOurConstitution on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 05:29:26 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  There was an issue with this in FLorida (8+ / 0-)

      A Gag Order

      This past spring, I wasn’t sure if I was looking through a fun house mirror when I read that Florida pediatricians were going to face criminal charges for bringing up the topic of gun safety in the office with patients. I couldn’t believe what I was reading.

      The irony of the whole charade was the reasoning of those who brought about the bill. “Direct questions about firearm ownership when it has nothing to do with medical care is simply pushing a political agenda, which doesn’t belong in exam rooms,”  representative Jason Brodeur, one of the bill’s proponents,  recently said.

      There is nothing so hard to stomach, to me, as reckless political spin. Regardless of your political leanings (and I hung a picture of George H.W. Bush on my bedroom door in eight grade), it was this outrageous NRA sponsored bill that injected politics into the exam room.

      For years, pediatricians have asked questions about everything from sex and risky behavior to guns, smoking, and the social fabric of the home. Questions that may seem a bit too personal in other circumstances roll right off my tongue in the exam room. It doesn’t leave the room and it is not my job to judge. It is my job to offer counsel. If a teenager has made a mistake and engaged in drug use, we can talk about this. If a parent is smoking around a new baby, we can talk about this. If a child is riding a bike, we can talk about safety and helmets. And if there is a gun in the house, we can talk about the right and the wrong way to keep this stored, safely out of the hands of children.

      The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

      by xxdr zombiexx on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 05:30:41 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  they were in some states (6+ / 0-)

      AMA released this:

      President Obama’s multifaceted plan to reduce gun violence calls on physicians to play an important role in decreasing shooting deaths and injuries in communities nationwide.

      The initiative, which was unveiled Jan. 16, one month after 20 first-graders and six adults were massacred at a Connecticut school, encourages doctors to talk to patients about gun safety and warn law enforcement about threats of violence.

      Obama clarified that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors from discussing gun safety. He assured physicians that they can report credible threats of violence without fear of penalties from the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act Privacy Rule. He also authorized the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to research the causes and prevention of gun violence, work that was suspended in 1996 after a National Rifle Assn.-backed push to block the study’s funding.

      http://www.ama-assn.org/...

      this is from July 2012:

      A federal judge has blocked the state of Florida from enforcing a law pushed by firearms advocates that banned thousands of doctors from discussing gun ownership with their patients.

      U.S. District Judge Marcia Cooke, who had already issued a preliminary injunction last September, made her decision permanent late Friday when she ruled in favor of groups of physicians who asserted that the law violated their free speech rights. She said the law was so "vague" that it violated the First Amendment rights of doctors, noting that the legislation's privacy provisions "fail to provide any standards for practitioners to follow."

      The state Department of Health could appeal her summary judgment, which addressed legislation signed into law last year by Gov. Rick Scott.

      In her ruling, Cooke clearly sided with the physicians, saying evidence showed that physicians began "self-censoring" because of the "chilling" effect of the legislation.

      http://jacksonville.com/...

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 05:32:47 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well, that's good news. Phew. Thanks. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        skohayes, tb mare, emmasnacker

        14-felony Rick is a holy terror. I don't think he'll appeal. He's undoing some of his most visible harm in prep for next election, which will be downright unbelievable if he runs again. That'll mean he hasn't stolen enough or done enough for his rich friends.
        Rick took the Fifth 75 times in his Medicare theft trial.

        I ♥ President Obama and have his back.
        Hands off SocSec, Medicare and Medicaid. NO subsidies to rich Corps.
        Rich pay more, bloated DoD steal less. End war on Afghanistan 01/01/14.

        by OleHippieChick on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 06:11:07 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Thanks. (0+ / 0-)

        It's absolutely crazy for a doctor not to be able to say "If you have a gun in the house...."

        Only thing more infuriating than an ignorant man is one who tries to make others ignorant for his own gain. Crashing Vor

        by emmasnacker on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 03:54:56 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  just published (0+ / 0-)
          In a randomized, controlled, cluster-design study by the Pediatric Research in Office Settings network, the intervention group that received specific gun-safety counseling from their doctors reported significantly higher rates of handgun removal or safe storage than did the control group. This study showed that families do follow through on pediatricians' recommendations about gun safety.4

          Despite this evidence, in 2011, Florida passed legislation, the Firearms Owners' Privacy Act, making it illegal for a doctor to conduct preventive screening by asking families about guns in the home — essentially “gagging” health care providers. Under the aegis of the Second Amendment, the First Amendment rights and the Hippocratic responsibilities of physicians were challenged. In response, the AAP's Florida chapter brought suit, and in June 2012, Miami-based U.S. District Judge Marcia Cooke issued a permanent injunction banning the state from enforcing the law. Governor Rick Scott has appealed the ruling, and similar bills have been introduced in three additional states.

          http://www.nejm.org/...

          "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

          by Greg Dworkin on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 04:07:31 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  New Favorite Song: Eyelid Mouth (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    justiceputnam, skohayes

    Soundgarden LIVES!

    The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

    by xxdr zombiexx on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 05:25:25 AM PST

  •  Yay, the roundup is back! Thank you, Greg (6+ / 0-)

    If you had told me in 2004 that acceptance of marriage equality would blossom in the 20-teens, I'd have thought you were crazy.

    With gun control, we have to begin somewhere, so let's begin by banning slaughter weapons.  It'll probably take some time before the tide turns, but...it is beginning to turn.

    And you can't turn it back once it starts.

    "Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

    by Diana in NoVa on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 05:26:03 AM PST

  •  Guns and the Filibuster (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DefendOurConstitution, tb mare

    I sure hope Reid's decision to compromise (or "cave" if you prefer) on filibuster reform doesn't end up "shooting us in the foot" on meaningful gun safety legislation (sorry, that was an off-taste pun).   I think its a good bet that McConnell and his fellow Republicans will mount a filibuster in the Senate.  Without a talking filibuster or the need for them to muster 41 votes to keep a filibuster going instead of our side having to muster 60 votes to stop one, I fear they will be successful.

    We will be faced with a choice of either letting the Republicans block the whole bill and waiting 2 years for a rules change, or gut out some of the more meaningful gun safety measures in order to get 60 votes for some compromise legislation.  Unless of course Reid is willing to use the Nuclear Option to make a rules change by majority vote in mid-session, which I don't see happening.

    Sorry, to be so negative, but I see Reid's missed opportunity coming back to haunt us again and again for the next 2 years on many worthwhile bills and nominations.

    Oh, did I mention the nomination of Richard Cordrey?

    "Some men see things as they are and ask, 'Why?' I dream of things that never were and ask, 'Why not?"

    by Doctor Who on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 05:27:27 AM PST

  •  Master Poe? (3+ / 0-)

    A Poet is at the same time a force for Solidarity and for Solitude -- Pablo Neruda / Netroots Radio podcasts of The After Show with Wink & Justice can be found on Stitcher

    by justiceputnam on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 05:29:24 AM PST

  •  Resuming apisard (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TFinSF

    ...?

    It's about time I changed my signature.

    by Khun David on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 05:29:40 AM PST

  •  Vitter: Rubio naive on immigration......let the (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TFinSF, skohayes, tb mare
  •  No more deaths (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mollyjb, Amber6541

    A vast minority of gun nuts and lobbyists holds sway over our government when it comes to regulations on deadly firearms. These slanderous and scheming individuals and groups have made it so the 2nd Amendment now guarantees anyone the right to own a machine gun, a 100-round ammo drum, or a tank. But somehow, the deaths need to stop. The only hope for saving kids like those in Connecticut rests with the people of America. We have changed. We see the need for common sense regulations in this country. We know madmen able to buy military guns and 100-round ammo clips at Walmart cannot be tolerated.    -  progressive

  •  ... (10+ / 0-)
    Biden today: "The President sends me to places he doesn't want to go. So I've spent an awful lot of time with McCain...in Afghanistan.
    @politicoroger via Mobile Web (M2)

    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

    by Greg Dworkin on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 06:18:51 AM PST

  •  A great article on Hillary Clinton (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Greg Dworkin, gchaucer2, Eric Nelson

    from Michael Tomasky:

    She’s been the most famous and admired woman in America for 20 years. A December Gallup poll had her as the most admired woman in the world, and No. 2 on the list (Michelle Obama) wasn’t remotely close. Not everyone is in on this love-fest, as we well know, by a long shot. But even the seething hatred has, over the years, embroidered her legend—debates about Clinton have somehow always ended up really being about us as a nation, who we are and who we want to be, in such a way that even those who dislike her are implicitly acknowledging that, yes, she is the touchstone.

    She’s the most important woman in America. More: she is almost certainly the most important woman in all of our political history. Already, even if this retirement proves to be permanent, which few people think it will be. No? Well, who, then? Who has been first lady, senator, secretary of state? No other woman, that’s for sure. Not many men have held as many high-profile jobs and performed them as well.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/...

    It's long but gives a lot of space to the things she's accomplished at State over the last 4 years.

    “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

    by skohayes on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 06:23:04 AM PST

  •  Oh yeah, this (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Greg Dworkin

    The National Journal goes off the deep end with Obama Derangement Syndrome:

    President Obama issued a statement yesterday to commemorate International Holocaust Remembrance Day. He noted that survivors who bore witness to “the horrors of the cattle cars, ghettos, and concentration camps have witnessed humanity at its very worst and know too well the pain of losing loved ones to senseless violence.” (We noted below how some in Europe chose to mark the day, which takes place each year on January 27, the day Soviet troops liberated Auschwitz.)

    The idea that all violence is “senseless” violence is one that has taken deep root on the left; it’s also, unfortunately, one that poses a major impediment to understanding the world.  

    Nazism may have been an ideology to which the United States was — and to which the president is — implacably opposed, but it is hardly “senseless.” By the early 1930s, the Nazi party had hundreds of thousands of devoted members and repeatedly attracted a third of the votes in German elections; its political leaders campaigned on a platform comprising 25 non-senseless points, including the “unification of all Germans,” a demand for “land and territory for the sustenance of our people,” and an assertion that “no Jew can be a member of the race.” Suffice it to say, many sensible Germans were persuaded.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/...

    “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

    by skohayes on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 06:28:14 AM PST

  •  Want to cut violence? Increase economic (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Greg Dworkin

    opportunity.

    Banning assault weapons and high magazine cartridges are nice things to do, but won't make much of a dent in the killings around Chicago.

    Making the real prospect for jobs that will pay for good lives available to more people -- that just might.

    LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

    by dinotrac on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 08:46:08 AM PST

  •  Yes Kagro... Chaka Khan (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Greg Dworkin, Eric Nelson

    she is from the southside of Chicago. Attended high school with one of my older brothers. She is intimately aware of what gun violence does in the inner city ghetto which she survived.

    Yes... Chaka Khan... seeing her name there doesn't surprise me in the least.

    "Do what you can with what you have where you are." - Teddy Roosevelt

    by Andrew C White on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 08:56:48 AM PST

  •  Eloquent summary. (0+ / 0-)

    Can you interview him for Daily Kos?

    What about my Daughter's future?

    by koNko on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 09:23:48 AM PST

  •  Get out your hankies. (0+ / 0-)

    What about my Daughter's future?

    by koNko on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 10:49:53 AM PST

  •  dude, even Ava on Justified didn't have an (0+ / 0-)

    AR-15. Shotguns do the job perfectly well, Ms. IWF.(I really loved that O'Donnell told that woman that if she had nothing but talking points, she should shut up.) But it was kind of a waste for the other panelists.

    "I'm six-four...it takes a lot to get over my top." --Alan Grayson

    by chicating on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 11:51:54 AM PST

  •  What happened to Pundit RoundUp yesterday? nt (0+ / 0-)

    There's no such thing as a free market!

    by Albanius on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 11:55:35 AM PST

    •  georgia's internet connection went down (0+ / 0-)

      three minutes before posting, and too late for a replacement.

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 01:55:24 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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