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public opinion of several prominent immigration measures

Graphic from Jan 2013 polling by Gallup

Gallup:

Americans Widely Support Immigration Reform Proposals
Greatest support for employers' verifying new hires' legal status
NY Times:
House Republicans on Tuesday staked out what they cast as a middle-ground option in the debate over immigration, pushing an approach that could include legal residency but not a path to citizenship — as their Democratic counterparts favor — for the 11 million illegal immigrants already in the country.

Republicans also signaled that they are open to the idea of breaking immigration legislation into several smaller bills, which would allow them to deal with the question of highly skilled workers, as well as a farmworker program, without addressing what Democrats and immigration advocates say is the larger issue of potential citizenship. Immigration advocates favor a comprehensive measure to enable them to use elements that have bipartisan backing to build support for broader legislation.

BuzzFeed:
President Barack Obama appeared to bow to broad opposition to instituting a new Assault Weapons Ban Monday in a speech on his gun control plans in Minneapolis.
Addressing a law-enforcement-heavy crowd, Obama expressed optimism that a compromise can be reached to mandate universal background checks for gun sales, but tempered expectations for a new ban assault weapons and high capacity magazines, saying he just wants to see them come up for a vote.

"We don't have to agree on everything to agree it's time to do something," Obama said less than a month after he and Vice President Joe Biden announced their plans to address gun violence in the wake of the Newtown school shooting.

Sunlight Foundation:
As the Senate prepares to take up the first major gun control debate since last December's shooting massacre in Connecticut, a Sunlight Foundation analysis of the political pressures on 26 key senators paints a pessimistic picture for passage.
When you don't control both houses, you don't always get everything you want. But you get something.

More on important issues surrounding gun violence and some scholarly perspective on the events of 12/14 below the fold:

National Journal:

The White House still thinks it has the Senate votes to put Chuck Hagel in the top job at the Pentagon, but concedes it would be a narrowly won victory.

After a confirmation hearing last week that did nothing to help Hagel's candidacy, the Obama administration counts about 57 senators as supporting his nomination to lead the Defense Department. A handful more have said they would oppose a filibuster.

Hagel is continuing his Capitol Hill courtesy calls this week, scheduled to meet with roughly 20 senators, which would push his total to about 72, a senior administration official said.

And those meetings are said to have gone better than his public berating at the Senate Armed Services Committee.

"They have a very different tone than that hearing had," the official said, adding that the administration was "very confident" Hagel would clear the Senate.

Judith S. Palfrey, M.D., and Sean Palfrey, M.D./NEJM on pediatric gun deaths:
Since 1994, the [American Academy of Pediatrics] has conducted periodic member surveys to ascertain physicians' attitudes about gun safety and to see whether doctors are performing recommended screening and counseling. In both 2000 and 2008, approximately 70% of physicians reported that they “always or sometimes” asked whether there were guns in the home and recommended unloading and locking guns. In 2008, 50% of the doctors surveyed reported “always or sometimes recommending the removal of the guns from the house.” A recent AAP research analysis of these data show that doctors who live in states with high levels of gun ownership are just as likely as those in states with low levels to ask about guns in the home but are likely to counsel families about safe gun storage rather than removal.

In a randomized, controlled, cluster-design study by the Pediatric Research in Office Settings network, the intervention group that received specific gun-safety counseling from their doctors reported significantly higher rates of handgun removal or safe storage than did the control group. This study showed that families do follow through on pediatricians' recommendations about gun safety.

Despite this evidence, in 2011, Florida passed legislation, the Firearms Owners' Privacy Act, making it illegal for a doctor to conduct preventive screening by asking families about guns in the home — essentially “gagging” health care providers. Under the aegis of the Second Amendment, the First Amendment rights and the Hippocratic responsibilities of physicians were challenged. In response, the AAP's Florida chapter brought suit, and in June 2012, Miami-based U.S. District Judge Marcia Cooke issued a permanent injunction banning the state from enforcing the law. Governor Rick Scott has appealed the ruling, and similar bills have been introduced in three additional states.

Dr Judith S. Palfrey is past president of the AAP; I interviewed her about Obamacare in 2009 here.

John T. Walkup, M.D., and David H. Rubin, M.D./NEJM on mental health and violence:

The facts about the risk of violence in the mentally ill are relatively straightforward. The vast majority of people with psychiatric disorders are not violent, and the mentally ill do not commit a substantial proportion of violent crimes in the United States. When violence is committed by a mentally ill person, it usually occurs in reaction to an interpersonal provocation and is often charged with emotion. Only rarely do mentally ill people engage in dispassionate, planned, predatory violence toward others. In school shootings, there has been evidence of both a strong emotional component — feelings of anger and alienation — and extended and detailed planning that went undetected or unaddressed.

Even if early signs were noticed, a mentally ill, withdrawn, isolated young man and his family would face barriers to full engagement in psychiatric treatment. Severely mentally ill people, especially if they are angry and alienated, do not often voluntarily seek treatment, and even those who do may not be fully engaged or cooperative. Young adults 18 years of age or older must consent to treatment; their families, as concerned as they may be, aren't necessarily able to bring them to a care provider and can't force them to continue receiving treatment. Moreover, our standards for confidentiality preclude involvement of concerned parents unless it has been specifically authorized by the young person. Also, pursuing care for individuals at risk has become more difficult. Mental health professionals have capitulated to a higher threshold for hospitalization, in part because of standards dictated by insurers; clinicians may also second-guess or fear civil commitment proceedings and so fail to advocate for higher levels of care.

Important perspective on the mental health aspect of gun violence.

National Journal on how bad this recession has been:

how the recession took a bite out of potential GDP
The American economy is about halfway through a lost decade of economic potential, according to the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office's latest projections.

The nation's economic output won't reach its potential level until 2017, nearly a decade after the recession started in December 2007, according to the 10-year outlook CBO released on Tuesday afternoon.

Spending cuts slated for March 1 and new upper-income tax hikes will hold back growth this year, but those same policies will help right the nation's economic ship in the medium- to long-term.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Who prepped Hagel? Who prepped Obama for the first (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    salmo, thomask, Albanius, Larsstephens

    Romney Debate....

    End results matter even if it's only 50+Biden

    I want 1 less Tiny Coffin, Why Don't You? Support The President's Gun Violence Plan.

    by JML9999 on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 04:37:05 AM PST

  •  Scarborough: 'The debt deniers are just like the (6+ / 0-)

    climate deniers'....I can hear it now.....'We've been talking about climate on this show for years.'....The GOP punditry are sooooo full of shit.

    •  And Reagan (6+ / 0-)

      34 mentions in less than 5 minutes.

      I'm pretty tired of being told what I care about.

      by hulibow on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 04:45:32 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I'm under the impression Folks who work for (0+ / 0-)

      (MS)NBC are restricted on their investments due to conflict of interest clauses as some of the on air talent at (C)NBC hinted at and that whole business with K.O. and political donations........

      I want 1 less Tiny Coffin, Why Don't You? Support The President's Gun Violence Plan.

      by JML9999 on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 04:49:36 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Speaking of climate deniers, (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      salmo, ratcityreprobate, Amber6541

      the president has decided to nominate Sally Jewell, CEO of Recreational Equipment, Inc. to replace Salazar as Interior Secretary.  REI sells clothing and supplies for outdoor activities - hiking, biking, camping, climbing, kayaking, etc., organized as a consumer cooperative.  I wonder what the congressional climate deniers will use to try to deny demonize her.

      "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

      by SueDe on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 06:07:25 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I have seen articles in which Jack Kingston (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        salmo, darthstar, thomask, SueDe

        a dipshit republican in South Georgia, who has a goal of ending Cumberland Island's Wilderness protection status and allow development for the ultra-rich.

        he has disparged those of us who are healthy enough to hike 12 miles to see the other end of the island.

        All those hikers, taking care of their health, like the selfish bad people they are....

        I can see her getting demonized for selling supplies to "hippies". (Especially if you have ever hung out in a RI parking lots for 10 minutes, you'll know what I mean).

        The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

        by xxdr zombiexx on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 06:10:01 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Another unsatisfying hearing is in store (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          rja, Stude Dude, xxdr zombiexx

          I have been an REI member since '76, at least in part because of all the attributes to which her opponents will take exception.  It's a Co-Op, which is at least a socialist conspiracy right there.  Plus, it advocates for things like outdoor recreation, and places in which to do that recreation.  I am quite sure that Senators bent on opposition will find grist for their mills in public statements over the years.  Entertaining as it would be to have a nominee push back on what I am sure will be hearings similar to the show we have seen when Susan Rice was a possibility at State, and most recently with Chuck Hagel, the immediate goal is to not piss off the Senators on the fringes, which will mean that she too will dodge, weave, and miss opportunities to set he questioners straight.

      •  I know Sally, worked with her in the 1980's. (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DSPS owl, Amber6541, askew, RadGal70, SueDe

        Sally is an excellent choice for Interior.  She is a graduate petroleum engineer.  After working for a few years in the oil industry she came to work at the bank in Seattle where I worked.  She was hired to advise and guide the bank through the minefield of loans in the oil patch.  A number of banks subsequently failed.  Her guidance kept our bank out of trouble.  After quickly rising in the bank she went on to become President of a mid-sized regional bank.  A few years later she went on to REI, the outdoor equipment co-op geared to hikers, bikers and climbers, where she became the CEO after a short period.  She has a deep understanding of the value of our National Parks and wilderness areas, she has executive experience in business, understands the oil business and the use of our natural resources.  Most importantly she is not a politician with ties to the industries that exploit federal lands or senators with axes to grind.  As you can tell, I'm excited by this nomination.  Great choice for interior.

        Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a Republican. But I repeat myself. Harry Truman

        by ratcityreprobate on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 08:02:15 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  And great information for the rest of us (0+ / 0-)

          to counter the outrage from our crazy uncles and neighbors.  Thanks!

          "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

          by SueDe on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 10:27:47 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  So ... about that starting poll ... (12+ / 0-)

    Why stop at immigration?

    Clean energy support at 80+% vs <10% (or so) support for fossil fuel subsidies ...

    Support for gun control measures >50%

    Support for taxes above $250k (AGI) >50%

    Support for choice above 50% ...

    Etc ... etc ... etc ...

    Blogging regularly at Get Energy Smart NOW! for a sustainable energy future.

    by A Siegel on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 04:49:03 AM PST

  •  Another sign of what is wrong in public education (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JML9999, salmo, Larsstephens

    is what I explore in this post to which I invite your attention

    peace

    "We didn't set out to save the world; we set out to wonder how other people are doing and to reflect on how our actions affect other people's hearts." - Pema Chodron

    by teacherken on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 04:53:05 AM PST

  •  CO, but some of this conflicts with feds (5+ / 0-)

    Colorado Democrats Introduce Package Of Gun Control, Mental Health Bills (VIDEO, PHOTOS)

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

    by Greg Dworkin on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 04:55:55 AM PST

  •  Turtle Diaries......Mitch has his dander up..... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    xxdr zombiexx, skohayes
    •  Do turtles get dander? (0+ / 0-)

      Their keynote speaker at that meeting was the editor of the Weekly Standard.
      That says a lot, doesn't it (like they haven't learned from their electoral drubbing)?

      “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

      by skohayes on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 07:11:44 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Thanks for the comprehensive roundup this (8+ / 0-)

    morning, Greg. The Republicans certainly like to hamstring doctors in the performance of their duties, don't they?

    I don't understand where these people's heads are.  Outer space would be my guess.

    "Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

    by Diana in NoVa on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 04:57:29 AM PST

    •  The only thing the GOP are unanimous on is being (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      billlaurelMD

      obnoxious....They may as well designate Santorum their leader and get it over with.

    •  The GOP and the insurance companies. (5+ / 0-)
      Mental health professionals have capitulated to a higher threshold for hospitalization, in part because of standards dictated by insurers;
      Better the insurance companies concerned about profits making these standards of care decisions than government bureaucrats using outcome based evidence. If that didn't bring Holmes' psychiatrist to mine, she decided against a 72 hour hold, I think the weekend before the shooting.

      Florida,

      Under the aegis of the Second Amendment, the First Amendment rights and the Hippocratic responsibilities of physicians
      thinks it needs to interfere with pediatricians' practice. Save all those kids from preventable deaths, injuries, disabilities and disfigurements? Surely the pediatricians are unrealistic.
      This study showed that families do follow through on pediatricians' recommendations about gun safety.
      Uh oh, what if they are telling parents to get rid of their gun$ ? Will the GOP try to repeal laws for car seats, bicycle helmets, football gear next?. I think the heads are missing some functional areas of brain matter.

      "People, even more than things, have to be restored, renewed, revived, reclaimed and redeemed; never throw out anyone. " Audrey Hepburn "A Beautiful Woman"

      by Ginny in CO on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 05:46:14 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Republicans aren't suffering from a lack (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Ginny in CO

        of grey matter that weighs something similar to a smart brain, they suffer a pervasive absence of morality.

        The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

        by xxdr zombiexx on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 06:11:49 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Being an atheist, I am totally convinced (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Diana in NoVa

          that all that morality stuff is somewhere inside the skull. Of course this is part self defense. I can maintain that just because my brain doesn't connect to Jesus or Allah, it can figure out right and wrong at least as wells as theirs.

          So the lack of sufficient or specific brain matter seems correlated to lack of intelligent, coherent, consistent, reasonable morality. Not that some people with limits there are unable to grasp these concepts well. Others, not so much.

          "People, even more than things, have to be restored, renewed, revived, reclaimed and redeemed; never throw out anyone. " Audrey Hepburn "A Beautiful Woman"

          by Ginny in CO on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 12:57:28 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Here in Atlanta the am, on WCLK (4+ / 0-)

    a public service radio of Clarke-Atlanta University and the "Jazz of the City", the ultra-cool am DJ "Morris" abruptly began talking about "you tree-burners need to listen up"

    I was confused - what's a tree-burner".

    Morris continued "Yeah, today there are bills being considered to ease the federal restriction on the weed.

    Disc Jockey on big station talking about marijuana like a NORMAL person! It was disorienting for the moment.

    Bills today to tax marijuana like liquor - there's a concept LONG past-due: and to remove marijuana from the CSA altogether it seems.

    Link to descriptive story.

    Cheers to progress.

    The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

    by xxdr zombiexx on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 05:01:03 AM PST

  •  The research gag is astounding (9+ / 0-)

    I am amazed by the audacity of folks blocking research

    making it illegal for a doctor to conduct preventive screening by asking families about guns in the home
    On a side note, my dad was a pediatrician and he had hand gun for a while - he bought it after we a had riot in my hometown. He sold the gun a few years later because 1) he didn't have it in him to ever use it and 2) it wasn't safe. If he were alive today I don't think I would tell him about my sister and I sneaking into the shoebox in his closet and checking it out as he would feel terribly guilty that he put us at such risk. The bullets were downstairs in his den so I don't really know what his plan was - whatever, at the end of the day he recognized that the risks (with 4 children at home) outweighed any sense of security he thought he might get. I would love to hear what he would say today about our gun problem - hell in a handbasket comes to mind.

    I'm pretty tired of being told what I care about.

    by hulibow on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 05:06:41 AM PST

    •  I had someone who recently admitted to (5+ / 0-)

      thoughts of suicide to me.  About the third thing I asked was how many pistols he had, and if it might not be a good idea to let someone outside the household hold them for him for a while.  (Third, because I was fleshing out how far those thoughts had gone.)

    •  Republicans gag info to preserve and amplify (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DSPS owl, hulibow

      their propaganda talking points.

      They somehow banned gun violence research - and act that I can't imagine could be labled anything but evil.

      Same people banned any funding for research to explore positive contributions of the cannabis plant. Ronnie himself implemented that ban on knowledge.

      So the GOP gets to lie and lie and lie for DECADES and manipulate public opinion via propaganda and a dearth of contrary research.

      Enter the Intertubes and a free exchange of real knowledge and the mythology of marijuana is completely blown. We have a situation now with 58+% ready for legalization yet the government still being very aggressive with marijuana enforcement WHILE they are giving lip service to gun control but weaseling out on it behind the scenes.

      These issues are intertwined, if for no other reason than they are both step-children of the GOP.

      Guns kill people - have as many as you want, don't try to limit or structure access or its tyranny.

      Marijuana doesn't kill people - don't even touch it or we will ruin your life as totally as possible. That IS tyranny but the GOP approaches it like they are saving the world.

      The stupidity in this arrangement is breathtaking.

      Politicians are resisting the changes Americans are demanding in BOTH ISSUES.

      Americans are ready to move forward.

      The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

      by xxdr zombiexx on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 05:41:14 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Yup, just what we need - more (11+ / 0-)

    visas for science and engineering - could there be any correlation with that and a 50 to 70% drop (inflation adjusted of course) in the salaries of these people since the Reagan years?

    Why not flood the market with MDs and lawyers instead?

    •  Start insourcing legislators (6+ / 0-)

      and watch how fast we change B1 visa policies.

      Republicans represent both sides: the insanely rich and vice versa.

      by Crashing Vor on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 05:13:08 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I'd still be happy to take the geniuses. (5+ / 0-)

      The problem lies in getting thousands of generic working class competent engineers and IT people flooding in, and the astounding claims of 'we can't find Americans who can do the job'.  Bull #$%#$%ing $#%^. You can't find somebody whose prior experience includes the exact carefully created job description and you're unwilling to take even the slightest bit of time to train them in that one tacked on pointless required bit.  You can't find an American who can do X?  Train one on the company dime!  Hell, train one up internally, promote them, then hire on somebody to fill their job.

    •  really - "Highly skilled" = Corporate giveaway (8+ / 0-)

      It's bad enough we bring in 80,000 per year already on H-1B's.  Corporate America has made up the rest by outsourcing these jobs overseas.

      But, hey.. let's open the floodgates a bit more and put every skilled American worker who hasn't already got canned because of the recession out of work.. and replace them with slave wage foreigners who will work 80 hour weeks.

      Yup.. that's our government working for us!

    •  I take perverse joy in hearing professionals (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DRo, Roadbed Guy, salmo

      cry over wages and employment driven down by bringing in foreign workers. If only they would bring in MDs and economics post docs.

      How big is your personal carbon footprint?

      by ban nock on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 05:21:17 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think the MD's are just a matter of time (0+ / 0-)

        I have several sibs and in-laws that are MD's, and two nieces who have just graduated from med school and are struggling with the prospect of paying back all those loans.  In discussions about trends in that profession, and the likely policy changes necessary to implement ObamaCare, all of them have said they expect a flood of MD guest workers, together with granting far wider authority for mid-level professionals, who may themselves be guest workers.  They all believe that they too will be seeing income stagnation, if not decline, in fields like primary care.

        •   MDs (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          salmo

          still have to pass state medical boards if their degree is from outside the US in order to get licensed to practice in the United States.

          “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

          by skohayes on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 07:17:34 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I'm betting Physician Assisstants will become the (4+ / 0-)

            new norm for primary care.

            I have seen consolidation in my area here in the mid-west of hospitals merging into mega-corporations.  And, I see them employing more and more PA's.. even in my urologist's office!

            Physicians will become managers writing orders that are performed by PA's when possible.

            At least that's my take from where I sit...

            •  I agree (0+ / 0-)

              Out here in the rural west, I rarely see a real doctor (even when I visit the neurosurgeon). PAs work fine for me.

              “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

              by skohayes on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 01:58:31 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

    •  Roadbed Guy - granting more visas to (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Roadbed Guy, Stude Dude

      foreign doctors is one of the suggestions of economist Dean Baker to bring down the cost of U.S. health care delivery - along with allowing people to take their insurance benefits outside the country to access more affordable care in other countries.

      I wonder what doctors would say if their salaries dropped 50% to 70% over the next 25 years because of the "free market."  Too bad IT professionals don't have the same lobbying power as the AMA.

      "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

      by SueDe on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 06:40:53 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Just to be clear, their salaries didn't (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SueDe

        actually decrease - that was poorly worded.

        What happened is that the salaries are slightly higher than back then, but considerably lower today than they would be if they had kept pace with either inflation and/or the increase in salary of a peer group (such as physicians).

        For example, let's say a PhD level chemist made $80K in 1980 - somebody in a similar job probably makes about $100K today (yeah, not bad I suppose) but would/should be making $150 to $180K . . .. .

    •  This is damaging to the US workforce (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      skohayes, Bon Temps

      and has similar effects to what has happened in manufacturing.  Fewer positions and lower wages.

      How about we restore our investment in education here at home?  I know in many tech fields it is hard to find qualified faculty and it has been suggested that high tech hires receive a higher salary.  There already is a two tier system in place, with adjunct faculty doing the same jobs for less pay and fewer benefits. Let's not extend that unfair system.

      Instead how about we do what the USDA has been doing for many decades.  They have an extension station on campus and faculty have joint appointments:  extension station and partnered university.  This would provide extra hiring power to the university and hopefully beefed up programs for students.  Just one of many things we could consider to improve educational opportunities for our own students.

      But it's not just universities that need more thoughtful and innovative investment.  Anyone who teaches, and most who have kids in schools, know the obsession with testing has not done anything good for schools or students.  I have retired from university teaching, but we saw the results every day in our classes and lecture halls.  Our own teacherken has written extensively about the testing issue and its long range impacts, including diairies this week.

      •  I am skeptical that there is a shortage (4+ / 0-)

        of teaching personnel in this country.

        Just an unwillingness to pay them decently.

        Brings to mind a statement I heard a few years ago (which still rings true, although the $ figures might both have to be adjusted upwards proportionately) when somebody mused how strange it was that people were willing to pay someone $300K a year to manage their money (e.g., retirement funds or whatever) but only $30K a year to manage (i.e., teach) their children

        Guess it goes to show what is important in this country.

        •  You could be right about the supply. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          belle1, Stude Dude

          However, I think it depends on the field.

          At universities, both adjuncts and graduate students are terribly exploited. I don't favor increasing the tiers of pay for what amounts to equal work.

          As for K-12 teachers, they are often grossly underpaid.  In our community, they can barely support themselves.

          As you say, our national priorities seem out of whack.

  •  Scarborough: Obama killing freedom... (6+ / 0-)

    Joe's now all horribly worried because President Obama has claimed the right to kill (Americans) without due process (drones), and yet, amazingly, when W claimed the right to torture, nary a worry.  Thy hypocrisy is astounding.

  •  Funny how neither party will do what the greatest (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Bon Temps, tb mare, Stude Dude

    number of Americans can agree on regarding immigration. Employment Verification.

    How big is your personal carbon footprint?

    by ban nock on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 05:18:29 AM PST

  •  "We don't have to agree on everything to agree it' (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    xxdr zombiexx, Laconic Lib

    Oh for crying out loud! Grow a pair!

  •  Wowie and Ouchie on the poll. (6+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tb mare, DRo, SueDe, belle1, Stude Dude, Amber6541

    Hooray to number 1 --

    The single best way to stanch the flow of undocumented immigrants is take away what they're coming to the United States for: better lives for themselves and their familes.

    We cannot realistically claim anybody to be "illegal" if we  ignore the drawing card and refuse to deal with employers who hang out the "Come on over" sign.

    Of course, that ignores one little problem -- it's already illegal to hire undocumented workers.  I take the poll response to be strong support for actually enforcing the law, maybe even making the penalties a good deal harsher.

    Bummer to number 4 -- those H1-B visas are already being used to throw experienced Americans out of work and bring in cheaper labor.  In the current economy, it's been absolutely brutal, and they want more?
    Sheesh.

    LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

    by dinotrac on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 05:39:13 AM PST

    •  that last GDP graph (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tb mare, skohayes, Amber6541

      was for you, with the depth of the recession.

      There's unevenness to #4... there are frequent dr and nurse shortages, for example.

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 05:41:57 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Thank you for that graph, and, yes, there is (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        tb mare, Stude Dude, Amber6541

        unevenness to #4.  The visa program was originally created to help relieve such shortages.  Now, especially in IT-related fields, it's just used to throw/keep experienced people out of work or depress their wages.

        As to the potential GDP graph -- ouch.  

        It's a nice visual that looks past the traditional dynamic definition of recession.  It also gives support to grumpy folk like me who question whether we've truly avoided a depression in the eyes of anybody but economists and policy wonks.

        That's a long, long hurt.

        The clincher was actually another graph inside the same article -- the one charting long-term unemployment. Absolutely heartbreaking.

        LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

        by dinotrac on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 06:02:06 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  I worked in hospitals for over a decade (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DRo, dinotrac, Stude Dude, Amber6541

        and still work in a partial hospital across from a real hospital.

        I have always noted Nurse shortages and have always connected them to the way many hospitals treat nurses: sort of like shotgun shells: use them up and eject them, complain about a shortage.

        Perhaps my experience isn't representative, but I feel that dynamic has been ground into my face, I have seen it so much.

        Managed care, again.

        The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

        by xxdr zombiexx on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 06:04:46 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Enforcing the law? (0+ / 0-)

      Around here that means going after the lawn care business in town, as well as farmers and ranchers, who depend on the cheap labor. ICE sure isn't going to do it.
      They raided a meat packing plant in Colorado a few years ago, held over 300 people for days who had "suspicious" IDs (and weren't carrying their green cards). Ended up arresting 65 people (out of over 1800 employees). So a few do slip through, but the majority are legal.
      Big corporations don't hire illegals anymore if they can help it, it's too risky and expensive. Our HR people just went through a 2 day class about identifying state drivers licenses (telling the fake from the real ones). They're getting harder to counterfeit, which is good.

      “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

      by skohayes on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 07:24:41 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Whoever it means -- including the day labor (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        skohayes

        joints.

        I really believe that the vast majority of undocumented immigrants are just like immigrants throughout our history: looking for better lives and, perhaps, a fresh start.

        If it ain't there, most of them won't come.
        If they don't come, we'll start to get a real picture of how much we need them.

        LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

        by dinotrac on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 07:32:18 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  House Immigration Proposal (3+ / 0-)

    Don't tell me, let me guess.  Allowing the 11 million undocumented immigrants to become "legal residents", but not "citizens" would mean they do not get to vote.

    If true, why am I not surprised!  

    "Some men see things as they are and ask, 'Why?' I dream of things that never were and ask, 'Why not?"

    by Doctor Who on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 07:04:09 AM PST

    •  You are correct. They can claim to have stopped (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Amber6541

      the evil "amnesty" to their base and get to claim "tolerance" to the immigrants and their families, who do vote.

      No vote for the "legal residents" though.  There is no way they are going to support anything that include a voter card.  They are going to fight the idea of 11 million new voters with everything they have, that's a guarantee.

  •  lower pay for americans who have advanced (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ratcityreprobate

    degrees and technology skills.

    if you worded the question that way, would people still be in favor ?

    big badda boom : GRB 090423

    by squarewheel on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 07:14:55 AM PST

  •  Danish Spoilage? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Stude Dude, ratcityreprobate

    Given the way the H1B process has been used to hold down the compensation of tech workers (not to mention the "gentleman's agreement" between tech firms to not compete too hard for talent) I have my worries about the provision for additional visas for foreginers with "advanced skills".  In fact, that question doesn't really fit in with the other questions in the poll so it looks like the fix is already in.

    The way to ensure that the program is not being used to keep tech workers down, is to require that H1B workers be paid a significant amount (25-50%) over the industry norm and also pay a visa fee to the government of 25-50%.  When hiring really good people, that should still be a bargain and it should eliminate the incentive to hire nominally skilled tech foreign tech workers to save money.  The program could also make it possible to obtain judgments against employers who flagrantly lie about the position's level so as to lower the salary norm; both the foreign workers and other employees of the company would have standing to file a complaint.


    My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right.—Carl Schurz
    "Shared sacrifice!" said the spider to the fly.—Me

    by KingBolete on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 07:35:36 AM PST

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