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Once you come to a new year, it doesn't take long for a state like Kansas to introduce legislation aimed at making abortion an option of the past.   But the State of Kansas makes bold new steps in the way in which they have chosen to take on the issue.

House Bill 2253, which has just come through committee, makes a sweeping stance at how to look at women's rights, along with some unbelievable stabs at the consequences for doctors, practitioners, schools and women everywhere.

http://www.kslegislature.org/...

Even if you're not from Kansas, this is what the fight is.   You don't always get to chose the battles, but we stand together on all of them.

It's difficult at time to really get to the heart of some legislation.   But KS-HB2253 pulls no punches right from the get go.

K.S.A. 75-3701, and amendments thereto.
New Sec. 2. (a) The legislature hereby finds and declares the
following:
(1) The life of each human being begins at fertilization;
(2) unborn children have interests in life, health and well-being that
should be protected; and
(3) the parents of unborn children have protectable interests in the
life, health and well-being of the unborn children of such parents.
(b) On and after July 1, 2013, the laws of this state shall be
interpreted and construed to acknowledge on behalf of the unborn child at
every stage of development, all the rights, privileges and immunities
available to other persons, citizens and residents of this state, subject only
to the constitution of the United States, and decisional interpretations
thereof by the United States supreme court and specific provisions to the
contrary in the Kansas constitution and the Kansas Statutes Annotated.
(c) As used in this section:
(1) "Fertilization" means the fusion of a human spermatozoon with a
human ovum.

(2) "Unborn children" or "unborn child" shall include all unborn
children or the offspring of human beings from the moment of fertilization
until birth at every stage of biological development.
(d) Nothing in this section shall be construed as creating a cause of
action against a woman for indirectly harming her unborn child by failing
to properly care for herself or by failing to follow any particular program
of prenatal care.
The State of Kansas is prepare to codify that the definition of life occurs at fertilization, and anything after that equates to abortion, which they will have none of.

But wait, it gets better!

(b) Except in the case of a medical emergency, a copy of the written
documented referral and of the abortion-performing physician's written
determination shall be provided to the pregnant woman no less than 30
minutes prior to the initiation of the abortion. The written determination
shall be time-stamped at the time it is delivered to the pregnant woman.
The medical basis for the determination shall also be reported by the
physician as part of the written report made by the physician to the
secretary of health and environment under K.S.A. 65-445, and
amendments thereto. Such determination shall specify:
Abortions will require legal documentation, including doctors names and information to go into file noting the specific need.  And we'll start putting time frames around this to make sure that you have time to get it to her and the state as well.

Don't worry, because the state only wants your name and information attached for 10 years, reported to them.

(3) If the physician determines the gestational age of an unborn child
is 22 or more weeks, and determines that the unborn child is not viable and
performs an abortion on the woman, the physician shall report such
determinations, the medical basis and the reasons for such determinations
in writing to the medical care facility in which the abortion is performed
for inclusion in the report of the medical care facility to the secretary of
health and environment under K.S.A. 65-445, and amendments thereto, or
if the abortion is not performed in a medical care facility, the physician
shall report such determinations, the medical basis and the reasons for
such determinations in writing to the secretary of health and environment
as part of the written report made by the physician to the secretary of
health and environment under K.S.A. 65-445, and amendments thereto.

(4) If the physician who is to perform the abortion determines the
gestational age of an unborn child is 22 or more weeks, and determines
that the unborn child is viable, both physicians under subsection (a)
determine in accordance with the provisions of subsection (a) that an
abortion is necessary to preserve the life of the pregnant woman or that a
continuation of the pregnancy will cause a substantial and irreversible
physical impairment of a major bodily function of the pregnant woman
and the physician performs an abortion on the woman, the physician who
performs the abortion shall report such determinations, the medical basis
and the reasons for such determinations, including the specific medical
diagnosis for the determination that an abortion is necessary to preserve
the life of the pregnant woman or that a continuation of the pregnancy will
cause a substantial and irreversible physical impairment of a major bodily
function of the pregnant woman and the name of the referring physician
required by subsection (a) in writing to the medical care facility in which
the abortion is performed for inclusion in the report of the medical care
facility to the secretary of health and environment under K.S.A. 65-445,
and amendments thereto, or if the abortion is not performed in a medical
care facility, the physician who performs the abortion shall report such
determinations, the medical basis and the reasons for such determinations,
including the specific medical diagnosis for the determination that an
abortion is necessary to preserve the life of the pregnant woman or that a
continuation of the pregnancy will cause a substantial and irreversible
physical impairment of a major bodily function of the pregnant woman
and the name of the referring physician required by subsection (a) in
writing to the secretary of health and environment as part of the written
report made by the physician to the secretary of health and environment
under K.S.A. 65-445, and amendments thereto.
(5) The physician shall retain the medical records required to be kept
under paragraphs (1) and (2) of this subsection (c) for not less than 10
years and shall retain a copy of the written reports required under
paragraphs (3) and (4) of this subsection (c) for not less than 10 years.
(d) The secretary of health and environment shall adopt rules and
regulations to administer this section. Such rules and regulations shall
include:
(1) A detailed list of the information that must be kept by a physician
under paragraphs (1) and (2) of subsection (c);

Get ready!  Your physician has to make a case for you, specifically and get send it in to the state so they can make sure there was some justification or you might be in violation of the fact they've declared the fertilized egg a human and worthy of all rights.  So, win on this point or you might be subject to some penalties.. and what kind of penalties would those be?

Well, let's make sure we've got it clear:

(e) A woman upon whom an abortion is performed shall not be
prosecuted under this section for a conspiracy to violate this section
pursuant to K.S.A. 2012 Supp. 21-5302, and amendments thereto.
(f) Nothing in this section shall be construed to create a right to an
abortion. Notwithstanding any provision of this section, a person shall not
perform an abortion that is prohibited by law.
No confusion about that part.
(g) (1) A woman upon whom an abortion is performed in violation of
this section, the father, if married to the woman at the time of the abortion,
and the parents or custodial guardian of the woman, if the woman has not
attained the age of 18 years at the time of the abortion, may in a civil
action obtain appropriate relief
, unless, in a case where the plaintiff is not
the woman upon whom the abortion was performed, the pregnancy
resulted from the plaintiff's criminal conduct.
Great!   Baby daddies and parents are allowed to sue doctors and the woman in case they don't like the fact that she received an abortion.

But that can't be all, can it?

(2) Such relief shall include:
(A) Money damages for all injuries, psychological and physical,
occasioned by the violation of this section;
(B) statutory damages equal to three times the cost of the abortion;
and
(C) reasonable attorney fees.
(h) The prosecution of violations of this section may be brought by
the attorney general or by the district attorney or county attorney for the
county where any violation of this section is alleged to have occurred.
Prosecutions!  Perfect!  Now we know what all those medical records and reporting are all about.

But, just in case they don't get it, let's mandate long pre-abortion preparation steps that every clinic must follow

(b) At least 24 hours before the abortion, the physician who is to
perform the abortion, the referring physician or a qualified person has
informed the woman in writing that:

(1) Medical assistance benefits may be available for prenatal care,
childbirth and neonatal care, and that more detailed information on the
availability of such assistance is contained in the printed materials given to
her and described in K.S.A. 65-6710, and amendments thereto;
(2) the informational materials in K.S.A. 65-6710, and amendments
thereto, are available in printed form and online, and describe the unborn
child, list agencies which offer alternatives to abortion with a special
section listing adoption services and list providers of free ultrasound
services;
(3) the father of the unborn child is liable to assist in the support of
her child, even in instances where he has offered to pay for the abortion
except that in the case of rape this information may be omitted;
(4) the woman is free to withhold or withdraw her consent to the
abortion at any time prior to invasion of the uterus without affecting her
right to future care or treatment and without the loss of any state or
federally-funded benefits to which she might otherwise be entitled; and
(5) the abortion will terminate the life of a whole, separate, unique
living human being; and
(6) by no later than 20 weeks from fertilization, the unborn child has
the physical structures necessary to experience pain. There is evidence
that by 20 weeks from fertilization unborn children seek to evade certain
stimuli in a manner that in an infant or an adult would be interpreted to be
a response to pain. Anesthesia is routinely administered to unborn
children who are 20 weeks from fertilization or older who undergo
prenatal surgery.

(c) At least 30 minutes prior to the abortion procedure, prior to
physical preparation for the abortion and prior to the administration of
medication for the abortion, the woman shall meet privately with the
physician who is to perform the abortion and such person's staff to ensure
that she has an adequate opportunity to ask questions of and obtain
information from the physician concerning the abortion.
(d) At least 24 hours before the abortion, the woman is given a copy
of the informational materials described in K.S.A. 65-6710, and
amendments thereto. If the woman asks questions concerning any of the
information or materials, answers shall be provided to her in her own
language.
(e) The woman certifies in writing on a form provided by the
department, prior to the abortion, that the information required to be
provided under subsections (a), (b) and (d) has been provided and that she
has met with the physician who is to perform the abortion on an individual
basis as provided under subsection (c). All physicians who perform
abortions shall report the total number of certifications received monthly..
I could go on, but it's basically 72 pages of lecture, including a long winded stipulation of what women must be told, verbatim.
(3) The printed materials shall, at a minimum, contain the following
text: Your doctor is required to tell you about the nature of the physical and
emotional risks of both the abortion procedure and carrying a child to
term. The doctor must tell you how long you have been pregnant and must
give you a chance to ask questions and discuss your decision about the
pregnancy carefully and privately in your own language.
In order to determine the gestational age of the unborn child, the
doctor may use ultrasound equipment preparatory to the performance of
an abortion. You have the right to view the ultrasound image of the unborn
child at no additional expense, and you have the right to receive a picture
of the unborn child.
A directory of services is also available. By calling or visiting the
agencies and offices in the directory you can find out about alternatives to
abortion, assistance to make an adoption plan for your baby or locate
public and private agencies that offer medical and financial help during
pregnancy, during childbirth and while you are raising your child.
Furthermore, you should know that: (A) It is unlawful for any
individual to coerce you to undergo an abortion. Coercion is the use of
express or implied threats of violence or intimidation to compel a person
to act against such person's will; (B) abortion terminates the life of a
whole, separate, unique, living human being; (C) any physician who fails
to provide informed consent prior to performing an abortion may be guilty
of unprofessional conduct and liable for damages; (D) you are not
required to pay any amount for the abortion procedure until the 24-hour
waiting period has expired; (E) the father of your child is legally
responsible to assist in the support of the child, even in instances where
the father has offered to pay for an abortion; and (F) the law permits
adoptive parents to pay the costs of prenatal care, childbirth and neonatal
care.
Many public and private agencies exist to provide counseling and
information on available services. You are strongly urged to seek
assistance from such agencies in order to obtain guidance during your
pregnancy. In addition, you are encouraged to seek information on
alternatives to abortion, including adoption, and resources available to
postpartum mothers. The law requires that your physician, or the
physician's agent, provide this information.
Pregnancy begins at fertilization with the union of a man's sperm and a
woman's egg to form a single-cell embryo. This brand new being contains
the original copy of a new individual's complete genetic code. Gender, eye
color and other traits are determined at fertilization.
Most significant developmental milestones occur long before birth
during the first eight weeks following fertilization when most body parts
and all body systems appear and begin to function. The main divisions of
the body, such as the head, chest, abdomen, pelvis, arms and legs are
established by about four weeks after fertilization. Eight weeks after
fertilization, except for the small size, the developing human's overall
appearance and many internal structures closely resemble the newborn.
Pregnancy is not just a time for growing all the parts of the body. It is
also a time of preparation for survival after birth. Starting more than 30
weeks before birth, many common daily activities seen in children and
adults begin in the womb. These activities include, but are not limited to,
hiccups, touching the face, breathing motions, urination, right- or lefthandedness,
thumb-sucking, swallowing, yawning, jaw movement,
reflexes, REM sleep, hearing, taste and sensation.
Unless otherwise noted, all prenatal ages in the rest of these materials
are referenced from the start of the last normal menstrual period. This age
is two weeks greater than the age since fertilization.
By five weeks, development of the brain, the spinal cord and the heart
is well underway. The heart begins beating at five weeks and one day, and
is visible by ultrasound almost immediately. By six weeks, the heart is
pumping the unborn child's own blood to such unborn child's brain and
body. All four chambers of the heart are present, and more than one
million heartbeats have occurred. The head, chest and abdominal cavities
have formed and the beginnings of the arms and legs are easily seen. At
6½ weeks, rapid brain development continues with the appearance of the
cerebral hemispheres. At 7½ weeks, the unborn child reflexively turns
away in response to light touch on the face. The fingers also begin to form
on the hand.
By 8½ weeks, the bones of the jaw and collarbone begin to harden.
Brainwaves have been measured and recorded by this point in gestation.
By nine weeks, the hands move, the neck turns and hiccups begin. Girls
also now have ovaries and boys have testes. The unborn child's heart is
nearly fully formed, and the heart rate peaks at about 170 beats per
minute and will gradually slow down until birth. Electrical recordings of
the heart at 9½ weeks are very similar to the EKG tracing of the unborn
child.
By 10 weeks, intermittent breathing motions begin, and the kidneys
begin to produce and release urine. All the fingers and toes are free and
fully formed, and several hundred muscles are now present. The hands and
feet move frequently, and most unborn children show the first signs of
right- or left-handedness. Pain receptors in the skin, the sensory nerves

(this goes on for four pages)

The state goes so far as to intone that if you include, or pay for an abortion with a Health Savings Account (HSA) or other tax-free funds, you are required to report it to the state as it cannot be used as part of your tax exempt medical expenditures.

To those states in the South, Kansas says:   Game On.   You thought you knew how to press this fight far?

February 7, Kansas just upped the ante.   Bring it.

10:38 AM PT: Choice USA Published an article about just this, thanks to someone PM..

http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/...

Needless to say, this bill is a whole new level of extreme. And in a state where countless barriers already exist to limit access, it’s easy to unilaterally focus on the negative side of the equation. And on the surface, that’s the only story we see.

At Choice USA, we get to see a different story.

We get to see a new generation of pro-choice leaders fighting back.

This week, over two dozen of our student leaders traveled from across the state to meet—face to face—with their legislators. Frustrated with continued attacks on reproductive health and rights in their state, they wanted to send a collective message to the 2013 legislature: if you continue to support legislation that hurts young people, we’re going to hold you accountable.

On Monday, our students delivered this message—loud and clear—to fifteen different state legislators. And we’re already seeing the impact.

In fact, our students had the entire statehouse buzzing—fascinated and intrigued by this infamous group of young leaders storming the Capitol building. Some of them were champions and supporters of reproductive health and rights. Many of them were not. Several legislators even told us that this was their first time meeting with young constituents to discuss reproductive health issues. Before Monday, they were laboring under the false pretense that their constituents were universally anti-choice.

We set the record straight.

And although we may not have the numbers we need in the state legislature to prevent this bill from passing, we do have their attention. By meeting with legislators on Monday, our students were able to push for specific compromises and minimize the impact of the bill, turn our supporters into more vocal champions, lift up young people’s voices in the political process, and ultimately build the grassroots power we need to transform the political climate in Kansas.

Originally posted to tmservo433 on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 08:29 AM PST.

Also republished by Feminism, Pro-Feminism, Womanism: Feminist Issues, Ideas, & Activism, Pro Choice, and Kansas & Missouri Kossacks.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (31+ / 0-)

    Gandhi's Seven Sins: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Commerce without morality; Science without humanity; Worship without sacrifice; Politics without principle

    by Chris Reeves on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 08:29:44 AM PST

  •  Give it time. (7+ / 0-)

    The Middle Ages turned Western Civilization on its head - its influence was vast and deep.  Its taken many centuries to over come it, but we're making it. Look at the changes over the past 100 years.

    Apparently Kansas is having a harder time struggling with shedding it.

    Boehner Just Wants Wife To Listen, Not Come Up With Alternative Debt-Reduction Ideas

    by dov12348 on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 08:35:42 AM PST

  •  The GOP never seems to stop their subordination (15+ / 0-)

    of women and here we go again.  They are not merely crude but just crass in their hate for women and their ability to make choices in their own interests.   Whats Wrong With Kansas?  It's just the GOP making themselves dumb in the face of modernity.

  •  Why don't American women just boycott (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mookins, Noddy, elwior, NancyWH

    states where their rights are disrespected?  Why not when bills such as this one are proposed, why not just make a national laughing stock of the state and vow to boycott the state until the bill is withdrawn.

    Don't buy anything made in Kansas (OK, I'd have to do some research to see what they manufacture there besides misogyny..)

    Don't visit the state on vacation, don't schedule any meetings or conventions there, don't drive through the state on your way to somewhere else.

    Don't go to any of their universities.

    Don't speak of the state to others in anything but derogatory terms.

    In other words, don't give the state any respect until they start respecting women in return.  

    It's the Supreme Court, stupid!

    by Radiowalla on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 08:45:53 AM PST

    •  Not so easy (7+ / 0-)

      when you live there and have no way to leave - if you have family, friends, a job, a house you can't sell.

      It's all well and good to call "boycott" when boycott is not an option.

      All knowledge is worth having. Check out OctopodiCon to support steampunk learning and fun. Also, on DKos, check out the Itzl Alert Network.

      by Noddy on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 09:04:42 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well, of course you can't boycott (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        elwior, NancyWH

        if you live there.  I'm only talking about drawing national attention to the problem, same as you would do when women are oppressed in a foreign land.  

        When you live there, you have lots of opportunities for political activism and I have no doubt that you are already doing everything you can.  

        It's the Supreme Court, stupid!

        by Radiowalla on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 09:15:38 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Getting the word out is most important (8+ / 0-)

          It's easy to forget places like Kansas.. but what becomes policy here harms hundreds of thousands, the same as every other state that isn't progressive.

          I've been watching this piece of legislation go through several contortions and it's pretty fast-track to pass, and Brownback WILL sign it.

          But what people don't seem to grasp is that by defining the act of fertilization as the moment of "life", we create a situation where Morning After (PlanB) etc. also become prosecutable or subject to civil exposure for costs and "damages".

          We're creating a paperwork war designed at running people away from consideration and eliminating access.

          We're crossing all sorts of lines here with our dictation to doctors as well as scientific assertions as fact within a piece of legislation

          Gandhi's Seven Sins: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Commerce without morality; Science without humanity; Worship without sacrifice; Politics without principle

          by Chris Reeves on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 09:21:27 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Maybe we ought to revive the Underground (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        NancyWH, Sunspots, marsanges, NonnyO, a2nite

        Railroad, specifically aiming to help women of child-bearing age escape from Kansas.

        And Oklahoma.

        And Mississippi.

        I don't know where they'll want to go, but we should help them find a place where they count as human lives too.

        LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

        by BlackSheep1 on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 11:31:18 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  women who have had good luck don't care (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      decembersue, nota bene, NancyWH

      so much about women who have bad luck with pregnancy

      just read a women's mag at a salon...stories of women who used to be pro-choice then they had a baby and now they are pro-life...UGH.  what if it didn't all go so well for that woman?

      this is why all women do not protest the lack of care about our rights....THE BABIES!!

    •  NO STATE SHOULD BE GIVEN UP TO MISOGYNY (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Radiowalla, tmservo433, NancyWH, Sunspots

      The next step would be to allow slavery in a few states.  No woman in any state should be subjected to this.  This must be fought in all states and at the federal level and in the Supreme Court.  #2014 #2016

      •  Advertise Kansas as home of the American Taliban (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        NancyWH, a2nite

        everywhere.

        Even one of the Westboro granddaughters has now fled. I think she should be made welcome in the reality-based world.

        LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

        by BlackSheep1 on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 11:33:00 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  does that "relief" category (5+ / 0-)

    have any exception for rape? From my quick reading it looks like a rapist could sue a woman who had an abortion.

  •  I seriously hate these fuckers... (5+ / 0-)

    I hate living and working amongst them.  

    "It is horrifying that we have to fight our own government to save the environment." *Ansel Adams* ."Even if you are on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there."*Will Rogers*

    by Statusquomustgo on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 09:52:26 AM PST

  •  It's mind boggling. (5+ / 0-)

    I wrote a LTE in support of Cuomo's Reproductive Health Act, published today. Here is one of the first comments


    Mike Tate
    "when necessary to protect the female's life or health,” Health means a headache, sore back, sore arm, hangnail...so go ahead.
    Murdering a baby is not control over health, but Hitler would have described it that way.
    SaltCuse and Der Fuhrer's Minions like this.
     
    Even in NY. None of the current comments even mention the woman, only important thing is the "baby".

    Oh for crying out loud!

    by 4mygirls on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 10:08:29 AM PST

    •  The goal is simply to run them out of business (6+ / 0-)

      To get doctors and others to say: I can't afford the risk, culpability.. in Kansas I can be sued by a biological parent who isn't there.

      In other states I have to run all these forms and documents.

      We're making it so that the procedure is legal only in the most technical sense, but they will work hard at making it near impossible in the realistic sense.  

      No practitioners in your state?  You've basically eliminated access for everyone there.

      Gandhi's Seven Sins: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Commerce without morality; Science without humanity; Worship without sacrifice; Politics without principle

      by Chris Reeves on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 10:11:14 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  The only good thing about that damn form (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Radiowalla, NancyWH

        It's so fucking long that the woman will probably fall asleep from boredom having it read to her.

        Their hatred of women knows no bounds. I truly want to strangle these people (don't worry I won't).

        •  It's insanely long (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Radiowalla, NancyWH

          And they have to read it aloud to her.  In the narrative.  I wonder if she can wear an ipod during?

          Gandhi's Seven Sins: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Commerce without morality; Science without humanity; Worship without sacrifice; Politics without principle

          by Chris Reeves on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 10:27:58 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Does this mean (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tmservo433, NancyWH

    That a woman can sue a man for 'all injuries, psychological and physical' (with monetary damages) for getting her pregnant in the first place, if said man prevents her from getting an abortion using this crap law?

       (g) (1) A woman upon whom an abortion is performed in violation of
        this section, the father, if married to the woman at the time of the abortion,
        and the parents or custodial guardian of the woman, if the woman has not
        attained the age of 18 years at the time of the abortion, may in a civil
        action obtain appropriate relief, unless, in a case where the plaintiff is not
        the woman upon whom the abortion was performed, the pregnancy
        resulted from the plaintiff's criminal conduct.

        (2) Such relief shall include:
        (A) Money damages for all injuries, psychological and physical,
        occasioned by the violation of this section;
        (B) statutory damages equal to three times the cost of the abortion;
        and
        (C) reasonable attorney fees.
       

    190 milliseconds....

    by Kingsmeg on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 10:31:52 AM PST

    •  No (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Kingsmeg, NancyWH

      There is no mechanism anywhere in the bill for a woman to sue anyone.   She doesn't have that right.   What kind of madness are you thinking ;)  

      :)

      Gandhi's Seven Sins: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Commerce without morality; Science without humanity; Worship without sacrifice; Politics without principle

      by Chris Reeves on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 10:32:55 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  oh wait (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        NancyWH

        There is a mechanism for her to sue the doctor who provides the service if she later claims she was duped or misinformed or whatever

        Gandhi's Seven Sins: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Commerce without morality; Science without humanity; Worship without sacrifice; Politics without principle

        by Chris Reeves on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 10:33:39 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  So a woman arrives at the hospital (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BlackSheep1, NancyWH, NonnyO

    and she's hemorrhaging, and the doctor has to present her with a time-stamped document explaining his diagnosis and wait 30 minutes before performing surgery to save her life?  And the Baby Daddy can sue?

    Way to go, idiots.

    When it's your wife or daughter bleeding out in the ER, we'll see if you are willing to wait 30 minutes for emergency surgery.

    The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

    by irishwitch on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 11:27:38 AM PST

  •  I don't know if Kansas has a referendum system (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    NancyWH

    But Pro-Zygote amendments would not pass here, if they couldn't pass it in Mississippi it won't pass here.

  •  this bill is Phill Kline's fondest dream (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tmservo433, NancyWH

    what are the odds that some or all of this will be shot down in court? Cause this damn thing is sure to be litigated....

  •  I'm sorry (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    NonnyO

    to be graphic, but I miscarried a malformed fetus at 12 weeks, and life does NOT begin at conception!  Not all fertilized eggs are viable.  I also suspect 2-3 other very early miscarriages.  PS, Don't feel bad for me.  I have 3 beautiful adult children & 4 grandskids.  I just view the miscarriages as par for the course.  Some people aren't as lucky, I know.  I just wanted to impart my experiences.  

    "The light which puts out our sight is darkness to us." Thoreau

    by NancyWH on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 01:25:58 PM PST

    •  Mother Nature is very practical (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      NancyWH, 4mygirls

      Rather than letting a woman's body invest time and energy for a non-viable fetus, She voids a woman's uterus to prepare the way for a viable fetus at some point in the future (if a woman chooses to get pregnant after a miscarriage, aka 'spontaneous abortion').  Sometimes the fertilized egg does not sufficiently implant in the uterine lining properly, and the uterus is still voided because the way it is improperly situated won't result in a viable pregnancy for long, and while a woman may be late for her period and not quite know for sure if she was pregnant or not, there's still the normal cycle if only a day or two late.

      Graphic, yes, but Mother Nature is very practical.  She only wants a woman's body to invest time and energy in bringing forth a viable fetus..., and, as you well know, some fetuses just are not viable.  There's no rhyme or reason for those circumstances and no one's to "blame" for anything.  That's just the way it is.

      Losing a non-viable fetus via spontaneous voiding of the uterus early in the pregnancy is far better than pre-eclampsia killing the fetus at six months gestation, a woman's body failing to expel the dead fetus, crying in physical and emotional pain for three months, then going into labor at term and dying because the doctor didn't remove the dead fetus when he knew it was dead at six months' gestation.  That's how my maternal grandmother died....

      Legislators who make some of these cockamamie laws are meddling in purely medical matters and practicing medicine without a license by imposing their particular brand of religious dogma via legislation upon females of child-bearing age (even if they're physically too small to carry a fetus to term and/or doing so would kill the female).

      Next time misogynistic legislators' antiquated morality takes the life of a woman, someone should sue these states and the legislators personally for every penny they have and are likely to get for the foreseeable future, whether tax dollars or personal wealth of the legislators.

      I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

      by NonnyO on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 02:59:09 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  A Kansas Woman Should File Suit (0+ / 0-)

        Against the state legislature and the governor, assuming he signs the bill if it passes (and Brownback surely will), for practicing medicine without a license. A bill like this has no basis in medicine of any kind and if included in a medical text would get that text rejected by nearly every medical school in the US. (There are surely some Catholic or fundie schools which would adopt such a text.)

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