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Archbishop Timothy Dolan holds a bible aloft during his first service during the Mass of Installation at St. Patrick's Cathedral in New York, April 15, 2009. Dolan, 59, succeeds Cardinal Edward Egan to be the 10th Archbishop of the Archdiocese of New York
Cardinal Timothy Dolan
A week after Health and Human Services announced new proposed rules for the implementation of its mandate that insurance companies cover the cost of birth control, the Catholic bishops are—surprise, surprise—still whining about how preventive health care for women is unconstitutional and un-Jesusy and blah blah blah freakin' blah:
Because the stakes are so high, we will not cease from our effort to assure that healthcare for all does not mean freedom for few. Throughout the past year, we have been assured by the Administration that we will not have to refer, pay for, or negotiate for the mandated coverage. We remain eager for the Administration to fulfill that pledge and to find acceptable solutions—we will affirm any genuine progress that is made, and we will redouble our efforts to overcome obstacles or setbacks. Thus, we welcome and will take seriously the Administration's invitation to submit our concerns through formal comments, and we will do so in the hope that an acceptable solution can be found that respects the consciences of all.
Of course, Cardinal Timothy Dolan's statement ignores the part of the new proposed rules that specifies "eligible organizations would not have to contract, arrange, pay or refer for any contraceptive coverage to which they object on religious grounds." In other words, that concern has been addressed and accommodated. But it's still not enough, of course. It will never be enough, unless every employer in America is allowed to deny women access to affordable health care, because of the Taco Bell rule, as explained by the bishops' general counsel last year: the absurd notion that someone who opens a Taco Bell should be allowed to deny employees access to birth control because it violates that person's religious beliefs. It's nonsense, of course, but that hasn't stopped the bishops from coordinating dozens of lawsuits by for-profit companies that have nothing at all to do with the Catholic Church, or any other religion.

The objection to women's health care on "moral" grounds would be offensive on its own, but that it's coming from the same organization that is still, as of last week, obstructing justice to protect the Catholic priests who raped and abused children and the Church hierarchy's widespread conspiracy to cover it up:

The Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Los Angeles released 12,000 pages of internal files last Thursday on priests accused of sexually abusing children, saying that it was finally abiding by a settlement it signed with victims six years ago to make the painful history public.

But it now appears that the files the church released with much fanfare are incomplete and many are unaccounted for, according to the abuse victims’ lawyers. In addition, on many documents the names of church supervisors informed of abuse allegations were redacted by the archdiocese, in apparent violation of a judge’s order.

This is the same organization that has been insisting a fetus is a person—unless a Church-affiliated hospital is sued for malpractice, in which case not so much. (Not to worry, though—after the widespread reaction of shock to that news, the bishops in Colorado announced that it will not say that anymore, so never mind. Hey, look over there! Unregulated vaginas!)

But never mind all that stuff—what really has the bishops concerned is that a company that makes outdoor power equipment can't deny health care to women in the name of Jesus. Because that is the real moral outrage.

Originally posted to Kaili Joy Gray on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 12:12 PM PST.

Also republished by Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  I wish the Catholic Church would go away! n/t (14+ / 0-)

    Float like a manhole cover, sting like a sash weight! Clean Coal Is A Clinker!

    by JeffW on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 12:20:17 PM PST

  •  Hole in the bedsheet (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skohayes, irishwitch

    Seems to be the preferred contraceptive.  Never proven effective, but then again "sex is only for reproduction".

    If their common parishioner followed these rules, then a lot of us would have great odds in our favor.

    No offense meant, of course.  :)

    Gandhi's Seven Sins: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Commerce without morality; Science without humanity; Worship without sacrifice; Politics without principle

    by Chris Reeves on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 12:28:50 PM PST

    •  The usual BS (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tmservo433, irishwitch

      If a female chooses to submit to this institution and abide by this rule in order to gain membership, that is her right--To choose of course. It is also her right to choose to leave that institution at any time, for any reason at all. Her capacity to fulfill their prerequisites for membership are unenforcible, and purely voluntary on the woman's behalf.

      Otherwise to the Church--STFU.

    •  What the hell is (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tmservo433, irishwitch

      "hole in the bedsheet" contraception?  I know the Catholic church has some loony ideas, but I never heard of that.  Of course I'm not now nor have I ever been a Catholic, so maybe that explains it.  So what is it?

      "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

      by SueDe on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 02:35:29 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Oh god.. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        BB Jam Fan, irishwitch, SueDe

        Ok, in the late 1800s there was a belief in many churches that what made sure a woman could conceive was the heat and bonding of the bodies... and so on.

        The story on the internet and otherwise was often used to put down those who were orthodox jews.. but that story was primarily bogus, just internet garbage... based on a misinterpretation of beliefs.

        BUT, the belief that it served as a contraception was put forward by traveling religious shows in the late 1800s not as a religious belief but as a "sign of science!" the huckster theory never gained traction, but you can still find pamphlets on why the "science" of it works

        Gandhi's Seven Sins: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Commerce without morality; Science without humanity; Worship without sacrifice; Politics without principle

        by Chris Reeves on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 02:41:06 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  BTW (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        irishwitch, Calamity Jean, SueDe

        Sometime, when I can figure out how to do it, I out to post up some of the "myths" that religious types have used in regards to sex, primarily against women...

        Years ago someone I know collected up all of these pamphlets and "sex ed" contents from the really zany religious groups (including Westboro) some of it... wow.  It'd be much funnier if you were confident no one believed any of it

        Gandhi's Seven Sins: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Commerce without morality; Science without humanity; Worship without sacrifice; Politics without principle

        by Chris Reeves on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 02:48:28 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  OK, I've stopped laughing at your description (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          tmservo433

          now, but I would need to see the collection of pamphlets so I can know for sure this is not the stupidest belief ever hawked by a religious organization

          "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

          by SueDe on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 06:19:38 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  There are some good ones. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            rocksout

            Two of my favorites are:

            * Women should never, ever be allowed "on top" in any sexual act, as it subborns the will of GOD, as men are supposed to be the head of the household in all things and a wife must submit to him, etc.   There is also a description of why you can't get pregnant this way that seems to imply that women must be completely hollow inside as (in graphic terms) everything just comes falling out making it pointless.

            * Women who are loud during sex are risking calling Satan to be in the bedroom with them, as they are invoking "dark spirits", where a dutiful wife will remain "Peaceful in contemplation of the joy of our lord and savior who has called her into service as a mother of her husband's flock."

            Gandhi's Seven Sins: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Commerce without morality; Science without humanity; Worship without sacrifice; Politics without principle

            by Chris Reeves on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 06:51:32 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  EGAD! (0+ / 0-)

              Sometimes I wonder whether women can ever reach equality as long as there are any men left at all.

              "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

              by SueDe on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 09:35:49 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

  •  not sure what the purpose of compromise was (8+ / 0-)

    because, you know, we joke about how "nobody could have predicted..." when we mean the resulting reaction was obvious. Surely the Administration knew that giving in a little would not stop the crazies. And giving in a little more won't stop them either. So why do it in the first place?

  •  I look forward to ordering (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    irishwitch

    A half-dozen Doritos Locos Tacos (available in Cool Ranch next month) from a non-profit Taco Bell.

  •  I'm getting really sick of them. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PJEvans, HugoDog, irishwitch

    Shop Liberally this holiday season at Kos Katalog

    by JamieG from Md on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 12:58:32 PM PST

  •  Well the Roman Catholic Bishops can go fuck (6+ / 0-)

    themselves with a rusty chainsaw.

    You have watched Faux News, now lose 2d10 SAN.

    by Throw The Bums Out on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 01:06:44 PM PST

  •  Oh for god fucking sake (9+ / 0-)

    Will the Catholic bishops just shut up and sit down when it comes to stuff they know NOTHING about?

    Jon Husted is a dick.

    by anastasia p on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 01:47:02 PM PST

  •  Who need birth control? (12+ / 0-)

    When the only sex you practice is buggering alter boys.

    The Bishops have zero credibility to talk about morality.

    "Work for something because it is good, not just because it stands a chance to succeed." -- Vaclav Havel

    by greendem on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 01:51:30 PM PST

    •  Oh, that's not the only sex they have (6+ / 0-)

      I heard somewhere last week that some have estimated up to 40% of priests are sexually active.
      This article from the Telegraph said that up to 80% of priests have broken their vow of celibacy:

      At least 500 women in Ireland are conducting clandestine affairs with Roman Catholic priests, according to the leader of a support group set up to look after those in forbidden relationships.
      An indication of the extent of illicit sexual relationships within the church was given after it was disclosed that Fr Maurice "Mossy" Dillane, 73, had fathered a child with his 31-year-old girlfriend.
      Bishop Pat Buckley said an extremely conservative estimate was that one in 10 of the 5,000 Catholic priests in Ireland enjoyed regular sex with women and some even referred to their clerical collar as the "bird catcher".
      Studies had shown that 80 per cent of priests had broken their vows of celibacy on at least one occasion, he said.
      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/...

      “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

      by skohayes on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 02:30:51 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  the RCC's moral authority (8+ / 0-)

    has more holes in it than Peter's fishing net. And is far less useful.
    I think they need to replace a lot of the old men in the hierarchy with women. And elect one pope.

    (Is it time for the pitchforks and torches yet?)

    by PJEvans on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 01:52:34 PM PST

  •  Dear Bishop Whozitzfoot, (5+ / 0-)

    the thing is, we have no idea what Jesus thought of abortions. He certainly never condemned them. My personal belief is that he probably didn't think about them much, if at all, but that if he did he probably would have thought that if a woman really wanted one, or, given the time, if her husband really wanted he to have one, he would be OK with that. That's just conjecture on my part, but I can't see how your position on the matter is anything but pure conjecture either.

    These capitalists generally act harmoniously and in concert, to fleece the people... -Abraham Lincoln

    by HugoDog on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 01:54:31 PM PST

    •  The Church changed positions (6+ / 0-)

      The RC church changed its position on abortion under Pio Nono (Pius IX), the virulently conservative, anti-Semitic mid-19th century pope who supported kidnapping Jewish babies so that they could be raised Catholic.  He was pope when Italy gained independence from being the Papal States; in consolation, the cardinals granted him papal infalibillity.

      Before his time, abortion before quickening was acceptable.  Pio Nono came up with the idea that "life" begins at "conception" (which turns out to be a very imprecise, unscientific term).  Thus all abortion was wrong, from the mid-19th century forward.  His justification was not biblical, but "natural law", a euphemism for "the pope's opinion".

      John Rock, who invented the birth control pill, was Catholic; he knew they didn't like condoms and thought that his invention was just what was needed to be a Catholic-acceptable form of contraception.  He was disappointed that the church decided otherwise.  Their agenda was not compromise then either.

    •  Does Jesus say anything about (6+ / 0-)

      contraception?  I haven't been to a church (any church) in a really, really long long time, but I don't remember Jesus spending much time discussing lady parts and how they should be controlled with his disciples.  I could be wrong.

      "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

      by SueDe on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 02:40:08 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Romans (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OldDragon, irishwitch

    "From the tyranny of the Bishop of Rome and all his detestable enormities, Good Lord deliver us."

    "The test of our progress is not whether we add to the abundance of those who have much. It is whether we provide enough to those who have little. " --Franklin D. Roosevelt

    by jg6544 on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 01:54:37 PM PST

  •  IT'll be interesting to see if any of their (7+ / 0-)

    "exempt" groups in New York State actually change their coverage.... since all of 'em are already providing insurance that includes contraception.     And I wonder how their young female employees will react when  they have to get another separate insurance plan to cover their birth control ....  will it have any impact on their ability to recruit employees??

    •  This is the reason they'll lose (0+ / 0-)

      Tough IANAL, it seems pretty dumb to me to be fine with providing insurance that covers contraception in one instance (ok, many instances) and then saying that NOW it's horrible and goes against your religious beliefs.

      Really? Isn't that a bit like a prostitute claiming she's now a virgin? You might wish it was so, but the evidence seems to say something else.

  •  Dear Gawd! (4+ / 0-)

    Please save me from your "celibate" priests. And their fabulous outfits too.

  •  They simply have no credibility in this argument. (7+ / 0-)

    Or any other, for that matter.  I'm bored with them and quite frankly they're irrelevant.

  •  When are the bishops going to get with it? (5+ / 0-)

    Do you know how many "married" couples are running around the United States right this very minute, who have not had their sacramental matrimonial union solemnized by the Roman Catholic Church? These couples are living in sin! Having little bastard babies!

    Just when the hell is the Church going to get around to doing something about this? What are they waiting for?

    •  Actually, if you're not a Catholic (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mmacdDE, wintergreen8694

      but you're married in your church or synagogue--the church recognizes it a sa marriage, which means in Lutheran Church, wishes to marry a Catholic, he or she must go through the same annulment process as a Catholic would.  My husband and I were willing to  do that until we learned his ex-wife had to fill out the same form for him to do so, at which point I told the bishop where to stick it.  I hadn't been thrilled at the idea of a Catholic wedding anyway, since I haven't been a Catholic for years (was doing it for my parents)and this was way too invasive a process. They aren't happy just to control the members of their own church; they insist on regulating people who aren't.

      The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

      by irishwitch on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 03:21:39 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  And I think a big part of it is (0+ / 0-)

        Most American Catholics just ignore whatever they say. Especially when it comes to birth control and divorce.

        They just want to control somebody. Anybody. Maybe they should get a few robots, they could control them and leave the rest of us (catholic or not) the hell alone.

        •  They can't ignore the divorce and remarriage (0+ / 0-)

          issue if they want to be married in the church.  Because without that annulment, it isn't possible. They either leave the church or go quietly to communion knowing they are in violation of church teachings.

          I didn't much caere. *It was pro forma for my aprents. In the end i told them they had a chocie: a Natice american shaman or the female Unity church minsiter.  Or not coming to the wedding. Dad hemmed and hawed, but finally came, and was grateful for the Unity minsiter.  He was damned lucky I didn't insist on a Wiccan handfasting.

          The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

          by irishwitch on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 07:49:33 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Yes, the stakes are high--FOR WOMEN! (6+ / 0-)

    All the more reason to preserve the First Amendment for all Citizens.

    CHURCHES ARE NOT PEOPLE.

    And they should be taxed heavily.

  •  21st Century (12+ / 0-)

    As a woman and a Catholic, it is insulting to hear the words of the Bishop. I was taught that Christ gave us a free will to make our own decisions. As an adult, I do not need a big Daddy telling me what to do. Worse, is he is trying to make it unavaiable to me and every other woman, Catholic or not.
      My Grandmother had 12 children following the Catholic rules. Can you imagine trying to care for and pay for 12 children in todays economy? Do they really think it is OK to expect that? Then when you cannot provide for them all and need assistance your called a "taker" and failure.
      We need to get into the 21st century and stop this authoritarian paternalistic control.

    •  Isn't their "rule" that women should only have sex (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      skohayes, LNK

      for procreation?  So, if a woman does not want to have a baby, she should not be having sex.  It's not about babies, it's about sex and the Bishops don't want anyone to doing it for any reason other than creating a baby.

      “The future depends entirely on what each of us does every day.” Gloria Steinem

      by ahumbleopinion on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 02:29:31 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  As a Catholic, you must be among the ones (3+ / 0-)

      to drag the church into the 21st century.  We Protestants and Atheists can't do it for you.  And as much as I resent edicts from the government regarding my lady parts, that is nothing compared to how I would feel about the  Catholic church having one word to say about my insurance coverage - I don't care who is paying for it.

      "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

      by SueDe on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 02:51:42 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I am sick as fuck (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    big annie, irishwitch

    of this institution.  It has caused untold grief and misery since its inception.  It is beyond the scope of my understanding to see how they have kept members throughout time.  It has no conscience or empathy.  It is greedy and has the need to control lives of unsuspecting people who only want to worship god.  Criminy.

  •  shouldn't they be complaining (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    big annie, Calamity Jean

    about not having enough little boys to rape anymore?

  •  Challenge their tax exemption! (4+ / 0-)

    What is clear is that the Church is now mainly interested in the politics, not any "morality".  Obama is the enemy, the protestant colored guy who doesn't kowtow to them on issues like teh gay.  So trying to compromise with them is impossible.  Just as Republican Romneycare became anathema to its original supporters once Obama supported it, any compromise that Obama offers will be rejected, purely for the politics.

    It's the Max Baucus Gang of Six all over again.  It's a waste of time to try to get a compromise.

    Since the RC Church hierarchy has exposed their agenda as political, they should not be deemed a tax-exempt church any more.  Churches are not allowed to preach politics.  This ain't morality, it's Republican partisanship.  So Obama should fight back.  The IRS should propose lifting their tax exemption.  They would no longer have tax-exempt income on their property, they'd have to pay property tax on their huge landholdings, and donations would no longer be deductible.  It would of course be a fight and might not work, but it would show that the President has balls and he's not using them to bugger little kids the way the men in funny hats do.

    •  I completely agree with you on this tax idea (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      skohayes, Calamity Jean

      and I am wondering how they get away with this clearly political stance. Not to mention standing at their pulpits and telling people who to vote for.....unbelievable

      you get what you give

      by chicagobleu on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 02:14:01 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  While we're at it, (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Calamity Jean, mmacdDE

        let's go after unaffiliated megachurches, like John Hagee's Cornerstone church and Rick Warren's Saddleback church too.  Talk about politics and candidates from these preachers' pulpits takes up more of their sermons - particularly in election years - than Jesus.

        "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

        by SueDe on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 02:58:36 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  What are Dolan's other positions? (0+ / 0-)

    Does he believe women should be allowed to wear shoes?  Should the be kept barefoot and handcuffed to a bed?  I know the goal of the church used to be to create "Holy Mothers" with a dozen children, but is Dolan trying to bring that back as well?  
    Contraception and abortion actually help ensure every child born is wanted and loved.  Dolan's approach will not get us there.

  •  Dear Pope---I don't go to your church. And I have (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    big annie, Calamity Jean, mmacdDE

    no desire to become Catholic. And I have no intention of pretending that I go to your church nor do I intend to pretend to be a Catholic.

    And BTW--You can't Make Me! Not here, or in Europe.
    Freedom of and Frome Religion Baby!

    Living the Dream without your approval or permission.

  •  Freedom expands choice, choices expand freedom (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ahumbleopinion, skohayes, mmacdDE

    One feature of Obamacare is the minimal definition of an insurance policy. (Without such definition, the Republican notion of interstate policy sales is a foolish surefire disaster.) Pregnancy is a medical condition; the ability to manage pregnancy is important. Being pregnant only when desired is certainly an aspect of management. A healthy planned pregnancy and subsequent healthy child is in  society's interests; hence the coverage in minimum definition.

    It's an unfortunate post-WWII fluke that most Americans are insured through their employment – unlike most of the world. The employer offers the policy – not the care. The policy has coverages used or not used at covered's discretion. Since a business cannot discriminate, all kinds of people perhaps work there. These people are presented with opportunities and choice – Freedom!

    A religious organization is free to have rules; their followers are also free to follow or not. A business follows civic laws that guarantee Freedom. Jobs are open to all religions. Religions are free to have policies. People are free to join a religion or not, and further, free to follow at their own level. Freedom all around.

    Republicans are making a phoney issue here. Freedom, defined as choice and opportunity, is being expanded.

  •  It really is safe to ignore them (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skohayes, Calamity Jean, mmacdDE

    You won't lose any votes by ignoring the church hierarchy. They don't speak for their congregations any more anyway. Obama should realize that on an average Sunday morning, the number of IUD's and birth control pill packets outnumber old celibate men in a Catholic church by a ratio of about 64 to 1.

    I'm not Catholic. My wife is, as are all of her family and all of the in-laws except me and one sister-in-law. All of them, even my 75 year old mother-in-law, think their bishops are absolutely full of crap on this issue.

    Obama needs to just ignore them, as most lay Catholics do. Let 'em whine; it'll just further alienate people from them. The Catholic clergy have already lost this debate. It's over.

    The Bush Family: 0 for 4 in Wisconsin

    by Korkenzieher on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 02:17:11 PM PST

    •  They still have big $$$ to throw around to (0+ / 0-)

      influence votes and they still have their well meaning, but clueless "save the babies" and "hate the gays" groupies.

      “The future depends entirely on what each of us does every day.” Gloria Steinem

      by ahumbleopinion on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 02:34:14 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  It's not over as long as the president (0+ / 0-)

      is willing to accommodate their demands to be exempted from his policies.

      "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

      by SueDe on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 03:38:08 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  The RCC has exactly ZERO "moral authority." (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skohayes, Calamity Jean, SueDe

    First, because religious beliefs are outsized fairy tales, imo.

    Second, because:

    The objection to women's health care on "moral" grounds would be offensive on its own, but that it's coming from the same organization that is still, as of last week, obstructing justice to protect the Catholic priests who raped and abused children and the Church hierarchy's widespread conspiracy to cover it up
    "blah blah blah freakin' blah" indeed.

    "The most potent weapon in the hands of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed." ~ Steven Biko

    by Marjmar on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 02:20:59 PM PST

    •  They have just as much moral "authority" (0+ / 0-)

      as as they are granted - in this case by the government.

      "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

      by SueDe on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 03:45:14 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Wrong Priorities (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    big annie, Calamity Jean, Eric Nelson

    "Catholic bishops still whining about Obama administration's 'accommodation' on birth control"

    In my opinion, the Catholic Bishops should be far more concerned about the well-being of all those little boys that their horny priests punked over the years.  But then they would be doing something fitting and proper, wouldn't they?

    I'm sorry, but until the Catholic Church stops whining and bawling like a little baby and grows up and takes full responsibility for the behavior of its clergy, it carries absolutely NO moral weight with me.

  •  The bishop's credibility is zero given their (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    big annie, Calamity Jean, Eric Nelson

    dismal views on women, birth control, etc. and their protection racket of priests, etc. who were serial abusers of children.  And they have learned so little from all this, so no, when they talk, who listens, besides the clergy who have no choice. The people have no faith in them to do anything except perform rote rituals. They mistake their church for their faith.  Nothing is more different than faith and the vast church structure that has grown up around a simple carpenter from a backwater country who said love is way.

  •  No one could have predicted (0+ / 0-)

    "Small Businesses Don't Build Levees" - Melissa Harris Perry

    by justmy2 on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 02:25:47 PM PST

  •  Is the Catholic Church a Church or a business? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Calamity Jean, mmacdDE, schnecke21

    If they are a church, then stick to religion and those that want to follow can. But if they choose to go into a business and employ people they can either go by the same rules as every other business or go out of business. Obama was foolish to develop a special rule for these nutbars. They would certainly not be satisfied.

    "Live as if you will die tomorrow. Learn as if you will live forever.", Mohandas Gandhi

    by Bubbatoby on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 02:27:26 PM PST

  •  The Catholic bishops can go fuck themselves. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    big annie, Calamity Jean, Eric Nelson

    Instead of the children in their care for a change.

    What a bunch of contemptible low-lifes. They gave up all the moral authority they had when they enabled and covered up for people who raped children.

    NO ONE should be able to make the lives of a classroom full of children depend on her own ability to make the right call.

    by expatjourno on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 02:30:12 PM PST

  •  Risable Nonsense.... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Calamity Jean, mmacdDE, Eric Nelson

    The idea that a non-religious affiliated business offering health insurance to its employes can dis-qualify its insurance carrier from providing contraceptive coverage to those same employes because it violates their sensitive consciences is total nonsense! What? if I'm a Jehovah witness owner will I not allow my employes a blood transfusion? what about a Christian Scientist...will I only pay for prayer counseling for my employes. The Catholic Church is in complete and total untenable territory here...but that's not an unknown territory for that corrupt organization!

  •  How many Catholic bishops are women? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Calamity Jean
  •  According to the Bishops the last time Catholics (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Calamity Jean

    enjoyed real freedom was during the Inquisitions.  Real Catholic freedom, they believe, comes only when they are free to burn women, gays and non-believers at the stake.  Civilized people don't want Catholics to be THAT free.

  •  Tax the Church properties (0+ / 0-)

    Call it a "sticking your nose where it does not belong" tax.

    Why not focus on getting all the baby molesters out of your organization?

    That would be a better use of church resources.

  •  We have never held (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LNK, mmacdDE, schnecke21

    that an individual's religious beliefs excuse him from compliance with an otherwise valid law prohibiting conduct that the State is free to regulate. On the contrary, the record of more than a century of our free exercise jurisprudence contradicts that proposition. When followers of a particular sect enter into commercial activity as a matter of choice, the limits they accept on their own conduct as a matter of conscience and faith are not to be superimposed on the statutory schemes which are binding on others in that activity.

    Justice Antonin Scalia,
    Employment Division v. Smith 1983

    There is nothing more exciting than the truth. - Richard P. Feynman

    by pastol on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 03:06:45 PM PST

    •  Hoisted.... (0+ / 0-)

      on the petard of one of their own!

    •  Pursuing your comment: since a business of any (0+ / 0-)

      substance would be operated by a fictitious  person (which "person" has 1st Amendment rights, of course). is it not, nonetheless, necessary to find that it is impossible for the fictitious person to have any religious or other scruples of conscience?  In fact, the recent economic disaster demonstrates that these "persons" don't have any ethics, much less moral/religious convictions.  I will appreciate your thoughts, as well as those of any others in the thread.

  •  The RC church should do several things. (0+ / 0-)

    1. Clean its own house of scandals and corruption.
    2. Treat women as human beings. Preventative health care is a good thing. For all of us.
    3. Stop hating the LBGT community. It was there BC it is here AD and it is not going away. Deal with it.
    4. Stop hiding pedophiles behind the pope's robes.
    5. If you like that tax exempt status here in the US, shut the fuck up about politics. The authority of the church is spiritual, not temporal.
    6. Accept the fact that you are not and never will be again the final arbiter of what is right and just. God is perfect, you are not.

    Give blood. Play hockey.

    by flycaster on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 03:06:47 PM PST

  •  Nothing will suffice until (0+ / 0-)

    he kisses whatever they need kissed.  His correct response as always is "Argo."

  •  Well, they need to do a better job of (0+ / 0-)

    convincing Catholic women to go back to the Bad Old Days  where they had 10 kids routinely...seems like they've lost the battle with the consumers of birth control.

    This is such BS.  And, as you pointed out, until they deal honestly and transparently, with the pedophilia cover-up--and turn over the asshole bishops who can be charged-- they have no moral credibility.

    The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

    by irishwitch on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 03:12:38 PM PST

  •  Can we make a new effort? (0+ / 0-)

    Has anybody written up an employment contract that follows Biblical principles?

    I'd like to join an effort to hold the Catholic Bishops to account about issues that impact ALL working people ALL the time..........and to ask they why they put SEX and REPRODUCTIVE ORGANS first?

    What about stolen wages? Sweatshops? Etc.

  •  GREAT! (0+ / 0-)

    Whence does this nest of pedophiles derive motal authority to weigh in on public life. The very few non-pedophiles left in the Chruch have no power to purge the perverts.

    In Los Angeles, the Mahoney Church is now engaged in a fundraising effort to offset the millions of dollars paid to victims. This add new meaning to the homonym "Sin Tax".

  •  I talked with a Catholic friend (0+ / 0-)

    about this.  She started out all Religious Freedomy until I asked if she really thought Catholics had a moral right to force Jews to ignore their religious tenets.  The life of the mother is first in Jewish law.  Well it's what God wants.  So I asked her if she knew about the Dominionists calling Catholics the spawn of Satan, and their vow to destroy Catholicism.  She looked stunned, I suggested Google for some verification cuz it sure sounds like killing Catholics is part of their God's plan.  Then I suggested that we all need to fight for Separation of Church and State because I'm pretty sure the Dominionists will kill me, too, and we'd better hope they get stopped before they take over the entire government.

    My serious question is this:  How can any of the leaders of the Catholic Church be seen as anything but psychopaths?  A normal person would be wearing sackcloth and ashes and pleading for forgiveness.  We allowed children to be harmed in ways that will impact their entire lives, forever.  We are complicit in every suicide, every wasted year, every troubled relationship, the damage done to every child of that child.  We are unfit to lead and we resign.

    I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

    by I love OCD on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 03:39:19 PM PST

  •  If little boys could get pregnant... (0+ / 0-)

    ...contraception would be a sacrament.

  •  Wow, you got it all in one well (0+ / 0-)

    written piece.  It is exasperating.

    People should check our Mia Culpa on HBO this week.  I will only step foot in a RCC for weddings and funerals -- not even baptisms any longer.

    "Since when did obeying corporate power become patriotic." Going the Distance

    by Going the Distance on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 04:02:49 PM PST

  •  Fair is Fair (0+ / 0-)

    If the Catholic Church wants to make decisions in
    Secular matters, then the Entire Catholic Church should
    Be treated just like any Other secular Organization.

    NO Tax Exemption. You're NOT a Church Anymore.

    Molesting Children is a Crime. Harboring Criminals is
    a Crime. Withholding information from secular authorities
    is a Crime.

    Call Your Papal Lawyers and Prepare Yourself for the
    Biggest RICO Lawsuit in History. You are an International
    Criminal Organization.  You're NOT a Church Anymore.

    I Know. Just Wishful thinking.

    In a Sane World, those things would have Happened
    Many Years AGO.

    On Giving Advice: Smart People Don't Need It and Stupid People Don't Listen

    by Brian76239 on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 04:14:35 PM PST

  •  The Catholic Church LOVES birth control... (0+ / 0-)

    ...otherwise, why do they require their priests, and nuns to celebate????

    Abstinence is birth control. The "withdrawal method" is birth control. Masterbation is birth control. Menstruation is birth control. Miscarriage is birth control. Getting old is birth control. Dying is birth control.

    What is the difference if a pill is birth control? It's no more unnatural than celebacy.

    ego sum ergo ego eram

    by glb3 on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 04:48:45 PM PST

  •  Normally, I'd Say Fuck the Catholic Bishops (0+ / 0-)

    But that could easily be taken the wrong way these days.

    This aggression will not stand, man.

    by kaleidescope on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 05:01:40 PM PST

  •  As Martin Luther said to the Church: (0+ / 0-)
    It may be that you want to build yourself a heaven of your own, like those jugglers build themselves out of linen cloth at the Shrove Tuesday carnival. Is it not disgusting that we have to hear such foolish and childish things from you?
    From Defense and Explanation of All the Articles, pg. 30 of Luther's Works, Vol. 32

    You can find more at the Lutheran Insulter, taken from his writings.

    "No special skill, no standard attitude, no technology, and no organization - no matter how valuable - can safely replace thought itself."

    by xaxnar on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 05:02:14 PM PST

  •  "celibate" old men in dresses (0+ / 0-)

    born, baptized, and raised catholic, as best as my german immigrant parents could do in this new world.
    my poor mother was estranged from the sacraments when i was a child because my father used condoms after she had miscarriages due to the rh factor and they didn't want to risk another pregnancy with poor possible outcomes.
    she felt so guilty.  she couldn't go to confession, because father ansgar would give her another earful and she didn't want to get pregnant.  so she couldn't take communion.  it really tormented her.
    the church lost me when i realized, at 19, that they would rather that kids in south america were born and starved to death, than empower people not to have these kids in the first place.  plus, i had sex then and realized that old men in dresses had nothing more to say to me.
    the catholic church is, and always has been, an evil institution dedicated to power and money.
    they need to fuck off and die.

    If stupidity was a felony, half of this country would be locked up.

    by oysterwitch on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 05:02:56 PM PST

  •  Just out of curiousity .... (0+ / 0-)

    ... where in the Bible does it say that women can't use birth control? Does anyone know an answer to this?
    Or that women should only use the good old rhythm method? Does the Bible even hint at this?

  •  birth control (0+ / 0-)

    the bible has nothing to do with the catholic church.  the beliefs of the catholic church are derived from the divine truths imparted to popes which come out  as orders to the troops.  both biblical and catholic divine revelations are equally suspect:  who profits?  follow the money and power.  the bible is equally the tool of men.

    If stupidity was a felony, half of this country would be locked up.

    by oysterwitch on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 06:11:03 PM PST

  •  It isn't about denying anyone anything (0+ / 0-)

    please be real. It is about who PAYS for it. The Church hasn't demanded that anyone be denied any health care coverage. They simply do not want to pay for policies that are antithetical to their religious convictions. A position that has traditionally been respected. And they have historically not been forced to engage in. And this whole mess could have been easily avoided. Sigh ...

  •  the RCC has been vehemently anti-Obama (0+ / 0-)

    ... since late 2007 when it began to appear he had a shot at the nomination.

    I have heard verbatim Faux Fascist Noise talking points spewed from the pulpits during sermons.

    SCARRRRY MOOOOSLIM!!

    NOT LIKE US!!!

    NON CHRISTIAN!!!!!

    DURRTY FURRRINER!!!!

    KENYAA KENYA KENYA!!!

    FETUS EATING CANNIBAL!!!!

    AMERICA'S FATE IN THE BALANCE, yadda yadda, blah blah.

    It's the same at every RCC church -- urban, rural, suburban, liberal, conservative, etc etc.

    It has to be marching orders handed down from the hierarchy.

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