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The manifesto of former LAPD officer and accused cop-killer Christopher Dorner contains detailed allegations of racism, brutality and corruption within the LAPD. "The department has not changed since the Rampart and Rodney King days. It has gotten worse," Dorner wrote. Support is growing for Dorner's efforts to expose LAPD misconduct, if not for the extreme violence of his actions.

Dorner claims that he was fired from the LAPD because he reported his field training officer, Sergeant Teresa Evans, for committing police brutality by kicking a mentally-ill suspect in the face during an arrest. Police treatment of the seriously mentally ill received press attention in 2012 after three Fullerton, California, police officers were arrested, charged and ordered to stand trial in the beating death of Kelly Thomas, a mentally ill homeless man. In Dorner's case, he was the one who was brought up on charges, for filing a false police report, and brought before an LAPD disciplinary review board.

At his disciplinary hearing, Dorner's version of events was supported by the testimony of the alleged victim of Sergeant Evan's brutality and corroborated by the man's father.  LAPD police Captain Donald Deming, who was Dorner's Seargent at the time he reported his brutality allegations against Evans, testified that Dorner's performance was satisfactory while he was under his supervision. The disciplinary hearing officers chose to believe Sergeant Evans, found that Dorner had filed a false police report and terminated his employment with the LAPD.

There is a lot of public sentiment that Dorner's motivations for launching his blood feud with the LAPD are moot because he is a serial killer. The police routinely deal with dangerous people and the fact that someone who complains about police misconduct is alleged to have committed horrific crimes does not, in and of itself, moot their allegations.

Did Christopher Dorner get a raw deal from the LAPD? Read the court opinion in Dorner's appeal of his firing and judge for yourself.

UPDATE: Sunday, February 10: Los Angeles Police Chief Charlie Beck announced that he has ordered the investigation in the 2009 firing of Christopher Dorner reopened.  

CP from The Rule of Wolves

 

Poll

Did Christopher Dorner Get a Raw Deal From the LAPD?

89%464 votes
10%53 votes

| 517 votes | Vote | Results

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Comment Preferences

  •  I have no problem saying, (43+ / 0-)

    "Yes," he did get a bum deal. However, I hope it's obvious that it's no excuse for murder. My sincere hope is that he's caught, tried, and if found guilty, imprisoned for a very long time.

    Likewise, I can see no justification for the LAPD to perform what, to all appearances, was a "hit" the other morning that turned out to do nothing other than injure two innocent people. Just as Dorner should be caught and brought to justice, so too should the elements of the LAPD who were aiming to simply assassinate him be held to account.

    •  The lawyer for the 71-year-old woman who was shot (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Mannie, gffish, WakeUpNeo

      twice in the back accused the police of "street justice."

    •  There was a detailed article (8+ / 0-)

      on this incident in the LA Times and the facts are even worse than I had imagined.  Homes in the neighborhood were riddled with bullets and both the make and color of the car driven by the women was different from the car they were looking for. Shooting indiscriminately in a residential neighborhood without identifying your target violates every safety rule contained in the LAPD's operation orders.  The officers involved acted more  like gang members in a drive-by shooting than trained law enforcement officers. They are lucky the bullets didn't penetrate any of the homes and injure more citizens. A full  review of LAPD firearms training should be ordered because whatever they are doing it is clearly inadequate.

  •  It's Very Troubling That He's That Rational (19+ / 0-)

    and plausible in his complaints and yet his response is multiple killing including of total innocents. One reason I want him taken alive is that he gets a thorough emotional and mental evaluation.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 04:26:33 PM PST

    •  Taken Alive? (10+ / 0-)

      I tend to doubt that will happen.   Looks like he's not going easy and looks like LAPD and the other police forces are interested in taking him any way but dead.

      Solar is civil defense. Video of my small scale solar experiments at solarray.

      by gmoke on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 04:51:21 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  The LAPD seemed to be trying to kill Dorner... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        OldDragon

        ...not arrest him.

        Then again, I'm not a police officer, never been trained as one. Who knows, perhaps opening fire at a suspect/ suspect's truck is standard operating procedure when you're on bodyguard duty?

        •  He has declared war on police officers and (0+ / 0-)

          their family members.  If he sees them first he kills them.  No warning.  Chances are if encounters cops the first one that shoots and hits the target is going to live.  Otherwise you're dead.  

          Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

          by thestructureguy on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 07:44:11 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  I think that everyone in the law enforcement (3+ / 0-)

      community is sufficiently scared of this guy that it is unlikely that he will be brought into custody alive.  They are not going to take the chance that he escapes somehow and that their families will be targeted.  

      And it feels like I'm livin'in the wasteland of the free ~ Iris DeMent, 1996

      by MrJersey on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 09:52:31 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  This is scary I wonder if the officers were member (0+ / 0-)


        L.A. County Sheriff's Department intends to fire seven deputies

        The Times reported last year about the existence of the clique, dubbed the Jump Out Boys, and the discovery of a pamphlet that described the group's creed, which required aggressive policing and awarded tattoo modifications for police shootings.

        http://www.latimes.com/....

        •  Same but different. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          slothlax, deePA

          The LAPD which is city when they arrest you drop you into the sheriffs hands which is county before you eventually to go to court. LAPD runs the city jails like at precincts. Sheriffs at the twin towers in downtown Los Angeles. The sheriffs run the county jails and go after fugitives. Well, the Sheriffs don't really run the jails per say either.... Anyone who has been in LA County knows the inmates run it and the Sheriffs hide in cages. I know from experience. When I was in for 5 days I saw Sheriffs on the way in and on the way out but never in between. The inmates do everything including choosing what cell you will be in. So when those sheriffs are talking about shooting people its most likely when they are serving warrants for the county or gang units. LAPD also has cliques like this which is why a lot of us Angelenos consider them a gang as well.

  •  Threatening to kill people (12+ / 0-)

    not involved in law enforcement but merely related to them, kind of makes any arguement about police brutality and racism moot, imo.

    "Let us never forget that doing the impossible is the history of this nation....It's how we are as Americans...It's how this country was built"- Michelle Obama

    by blueoregon on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 04:59:35 PM PST

    •  Perhaps he did get a raw deal (15+ / 0-)

      I don't know.

      I do know for an absolute certainty that the three people he killed and their mourning survivors got an irreversibly raw deal.

      He killed the daughter of the retired cop who represented him and her fiance.

      Why did he kill the fiance and the daughter?

      Dorner wrote in his manifesto that he believed the retired captain had represented the interests of the department over his.

      Hours after authorities identified Dorner as a suspect in the double murder, police believe Dorner shot and grazed an LAPD officer in Corona and then used a rifle to ambush two Riverside police officers early Thursday, killing one and seriously wounding the other.

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

      So let's please take a moment to separate the message--the LAPD is corrupt and racist (non-BREAKING news)--from the messenger: a very damaged person who kills the children of people he has grievances with at work.

      Suppressing the truth will leave to deadly consequences for you and your family. There will be an element of surprise where you work, live, eat, and sleep. I will utilize ISR at your home, workplace, and all locations in between. I will utilize OSINT to discover your residences, spouses workplaces, and children's schools. IMINT to coordinate and plan attacks on your fixed locations. Its amazing whats on NIPR. HUMINT will be utilized to collect personal schedules of targets. I never had the opportunity to have a family of my own, I'm terminating yours. Quan, Anderson, Evans, and BOR members Look your wives/husbands and surviving children directly in the face and tell them the truth as to why your children are dead.
      http://gawker.com/...

      I really don't care what his crusade was or the merits of his arguments in his manifesto or how articulate it was or if he got a raw deal.

      This man is neither a hero, nor a worthy whistleblower for any cause.

      This is a vigilante narcissist who did not have the presence of mind to submit his grievances to independent journalists and quit working for an institution he hated.

      He is not worthy of the social media pedastalizing that he's getting.

      The attacks will stop when the department states the truth about my innocence, PUBLICLY!!! I will not accept any type of currency/goods in exchange for the attacks to stop, nor do i want it. I want my name back, period. There is no negotiation.

      http://gawker.com/...

      "I am not interested in picking up crumbs of compassion thrown from the table of someone who considers himself my master. I want the full menu of rights." (From "You Said a Mouthful" by Bishop Desmond Tutu - South African bishop & activist, b.1931)

      by FiredUpInCA on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 05:34:23 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  My understanding was that he did submit this to (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        RonV, gffish

        CNN and they sat on it.

        "Mitt Romney looks like the CEO who fires you, then goes to the Country Club and laughs about it with his friends." ~ Thomas Roberts MSNBC

        by second gen on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 05:46:13 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  I posted this below: (6+ / 0-)
        On Aug. 9, Evans gave Dorner an evaluation that said he needed to improve in the areas of officer safety, common sense and good judgment. The next day, Dorner reported Evans' alleged kicking of Gettler to an LAPD captain. According to the captain's court testimony, Dorner "expressed remorse that he failed to report what he believed to be misconduct (unnecessary kicks applied to an arrestee) that he witnessed two weeks prior."

        The LAPD decided to fire Dorner in September 2008 for lying about the incident, but with Dorner's lawsuit, it took until Feb. 5, 2009, to take effect, according to court documents.
         

        That makes his claim about Evans pretty suspect and it shows that he was someone who would retaliate for any perceived offence.

        Most of the people taking a hard line against us are firmly convinced that they are the last defenders of civilization... The last stronghold of mother, God, home and apple pie and they're full of shit! David Crosby, Journey Thru the Past.

        by Mike S on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 05:51:45 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Read the manifesto. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kdnla, nice marmot

          The man is intelligent and articulate, and his accusations ring true from start to finish.  Teresa Evans should be fired for her role, including her rewriting (twice) of Dorner's report and her lying under oath.  The others should also be disciplined.  Although there was no mention of any polygraphs being given, they are routinely used by law enforcement in investigating internal matters.  If they were utilized in this case, I hope the results are eventually released to the public as that will tell us the rest of the story.

          "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

          by Neuroptimalian on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 07:19:11 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I find it amazing that a guy (13+ / 0-)

            who went on a killing spree  and murdered an innocent man and woman simply because she was related to his advocate is believed.

            He has proven himself to be extremely unstable and a vicious killer. To read the diaries and comments here you would think he was in the middle of a peaceful protest.

            Most of the people taking a hard line against us are firmly convinced that they are the last defenders of civilization... The last stronghold of mother, God, home and apple pie and they're full of shit! David Crosby, Journey Thru the Past.

            by Mike S on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 07:33:27 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Did anyone see him doing the shooting or is it (0+ / 0-)

              suspected that he is the shooter?Or is  the accusation based on this manifesto that they believe came from his facebook page.

              The page I read had names removed and it wasn't on facebook but a pdf,

              This story has so many holes and the police's reaction. He shoot 2 people and 3 cops no one saw him or heard a truck speeding away..  then they found a( ? his) truck with a broken axile burning in the mountains with weapons and ammo still in the truck some tracks that disappear.

              This is reminding me of the Al Pachino movie with all these twist and turns

          •  I did, and found it to be partly a confession (8+ / 0-)

            of someone with a short fuse, since grade school, who has been getting into fights over and over again, and who accuses people of lying about him over and over again, and who feels TOTALLY justified using violence in the moment to respond to situations he believes are unjust.

            He seems to find it persuasive that he, a large man, has always been the hero, who was responding to racism, etc. I find the manifesto persuasive of his inflated sense of himself as some kind of hero, while at the same time, and, as you point out, rather articulately laying out the details plans of a criminal mind to terrorize a whole city and region, by "showing" the world that the "good guys with guns" are NOT ABLE to protect their own kin from his capacity for revenge.

            You are right that he is educated and articulate. He claims he was a commanding officer in the military, and in the photo he is wearing a captain's rank. We don't really know why the military career ended THIS MONTH, but he blames that on the LAPD too.

            The LAPD has many problems which need to be investigated, but this guy is not a credible whistleblower. His is a criminal. And right up until he murdered someone last week, he was a so-called "responsible gun owner."

    •  Are arguments about racism (0+ / 0-)

      and corruption moot all of the time because the police routinely have to deal with very dangerous people, or just in Dorner's case?

    •  it's called "total war", a concept he was taught (0+ / 0-)

      Threatening to kill people not involved in law enforcement but merely related to them

      in the military, and first espoused by sherman, during the civil war, on his march to the sea. remove the ability of the enemy to continue making war, by whatever means necessary, and terrify the civilian population. before you get too self-righteous, just remember, you helped pay for his training and, by virtue of voting for people who allocated the funds for it, support it.

      there are no innocent parties.

      •  It's more like a Pashtun blood fued (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        gffish

        which extends revenge to family members and has no time limit, but is only culturally acceptable if you live in the Swat Valley of Pakistan's Northwest Frontier Province.

  •  HR'd (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Capt Crunch

    you need to get the facts straight.

    You imply that Dorner was fired for making false statement in the beating death of Kelly Thomas.

    The incident with Thomas happened in 2011.  The charges were laid in 2007 - in the court opinion you link to.

    What the current situation with the police force is has nothing to do with Dorner's trail. And Dorner has nothing to do with the Thomas matter.

    Change the story and I will remove the HR

    "The only person sure of himself is the man who wishes to leave things as they are, and he dreams of an impossibility" -George M. Wrong.

    by statsone on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 05:08:56 PM PST

  •  Get your facts straight. (7+ / 0-)
    In 2012 several California police officers were arrested, charged and ordered to stand trial in the beating death of Kelly Thomas, a mentally ill homeless man.
    The Kelly Thomas incident involved the Fullerton Police Department, NOT the LAPD.

    Nothing--NOTHING--justifies Dornen's actions.  Even if what he said in his self-serving manifesto is true, it ceased to matter the moment he shot and killed Monica Quan and her fiance Keith Lawrence.

    •  The diarist never SAID it was the LAPD. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RonV, Neuroptimalian, jakedog42, gffish

      Get your reading comprehension straight.

      In 2012 several California police officers were arrested, charged and ordered to stand trial in the beating death of Kelly Thomas, a mentally ill homeless man.

      "Mitt Romney looks like the CEO who fires you, then goes to the Country Club and laughs about it with his friends." ~ Thomas Roberts MSNBC

      by second gen on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 05:42:27 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I read it just fine, thankyouverymuch. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        statsone, slothlax

        It was embedded between this:

        Dorner claims that he was fired from the LAPD because he reported his field training officer, Sergeant Teresa Evans, for committing police brutality during the arrest of a mentally-ill suspect. (emphasis mine)
        ...and this...
        At the disciplinary hearing, Dorner's version of events was supported by the testimony of the alleged victim of Sergeant Evan's brutality and corroborated by the man's father.  LAPD police Captain Donald Deming, who was Dorner's Seargent at the time he reported his brutality allegations against Evans, testified that Dorner's performance was satisfactory while he was under his supervision. The disciplinary hearing officers chose to believe Sergeant Evans, found that Dorner had filed a false police report and terminated his employment with the LAPD.  

        Did Christopher Dorner get a raw deal from the LAPD?  (emphasis mine)

        Without clearly identifying that the Kelly Thomas incident in no way, shape, or form involved the LAPD, it's clear the diarist intended to mislead his reader into believing the incident was another in a long string of LAPD infractions that somehow justify Dorner's actions.

        My reading comprehension is just fine.  It's clear what the diarist intended the reader to walk away "understanding"--it's a cheap, dirty rhetorical trick.

        •  Well, except for that embedded link that takes (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          RonV, Neuroptimalian, jakedog42

          you to the story of the Kelly Thomas incident.

          "Mitt Romney looks like the CEO who fires you, then goes to the Country Club and laughs about it with his friends." ~ Thomas Roberts MSNBC

          by second gen on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 06:16:56 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  And trusting no one would bother to click through. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            slothlax, nice marmot

            Let's not pretend that this was an "innocent mistake".  Either the diarist himself is conflating the Fullerton PD with the LAPD in his own head (and that'd be an honest, if sloppy, mistake; I know people think the Riverside police officer who was killed was part of the LAPD), or he intended the reader to.  I think he intended to mislead his reader, however, covering himself with the fig-leaf of "California police".

            An honest broker would have put that card on the table.  It's misleading and dishonest to talk entirely about the LAPD, and then, in one's only salient example, talk about an incident that occurred somewhere else, by someone else entirely, glossing it with "California police" rather than "Fullerton police".

        •  As you point out... (5+ / 0-)

          When talking about the LAPD, the diarist said: "LAPD". When not talking about the LAPD the diarist referred to a more generic description of "California police officers".

          You made some serious claims against the diarist that are not supported by the facts. You are lucky not to get HR'd yourself.

          "I was so easy to defeat, I was so easy to control, I didn't even know there was a war." -9.75, -8.41

          by RonV on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 06:26:12 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Well.......... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jakedog42

          the rest of us got it. I understood it to be a contrast oe where they puish the person reporting second one shows where a police department did the right thing.

          It is the heart that makes a man rich. He is rich according to what he is not what he has -Henry Ward Beecher

          by PSWaterspirit on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 07:31:57 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  I wasn't trying to mislead (0+ / 0-)

          anyone. You pointed out the need for clarification and I clarified the diary post. The only reason I mentioned the Kelly Thomas case in the first place was because the Dorner allegation also involved an SMI suspect. Police treatment of the SMI is a big problem that leads to senseless police shootings on a regular basis.

    •   LAPDs culture of corruption still needs reform (5+ / 0-)

      You are correct that none of his grievances can ever justify, either morally or legally, his killing spree. The question I raise is whether the LAPD has a culture of corruption that drives principled officers from its ranks. Whatever insanity was unleashed by the loss of his reputation and career, at one point Dorner was a principled, socially conscious LAPD officer; an rare entity in very short supply.  

      •  We don't know that he was ever... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        FiredUpInCA, slothlax

        ...principled.  We just have his word for that, and his word isn't worth anything.

        A principled man would have taken his story to publish in the L.A. Times, or as a book deal.  According to the OC Register,

        [Sgt. Theresa Evans] denied the allegation, and an investigation brought forward witness testimony that supported her story.
        From what I understand, his claims were specifically refuted by two witnesses, though I can't find confirmation of that number.

        (The rest of the OC Register's story paints a picture of a man who could hardly be called "principled" or "socially conscious".)

        •  Actually, we do. (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Neuroptimalian, Egg, marina, nice marmot
          Manhunt: Ex-LAPD officer accused in 3 killings spent time in Enid

          The Nov. 5, 2002, edition of the Enid News & Eagle included a story of a pair of good Samaritans — both student pilots at Vance Air Force Base — who found a bank bag containing nearly $8,000 in the street.

          One of the men was identified as Navy Ensign Chris Dorner

          .

          "Mitt Romney looks like the CEO who fires you, then goes to the Country Club and laughs about it with his friends." ~ Thomas Roberts MSNBC

          by second gen on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 06:33:15 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  You don't get his security clearnces... (7+ / 0-)

          without being principled, you also don't get news stories written about you about turning in 8k to an owner who lost it...

          Turned in Moneyhttp://www.buzzfeed.com/...

          Not to excuse his current actions in anyway...but something went wrong....unfortunately we will never find out what, because L.A.P.D. will kill him before he get's to a trail...

        •  The witnesses didn't "support" her story, ... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          second gen, gffish

          nor did they refute his.  That the witnesses didn't see her kick the man doesn't mean that she didn't.

          If the injured man was seen by medical professionals, they would have known immediately if his facial injury result from a kick or from his being scraped by bushes as he fell.  There may even have been photographs of his face taken.

          Besides, if it didn't happen as Dorner claims, why would he be so angry?  If she had not kicked the man in the face, there would be no reason for Dorner to be so enraged as to kill so many people simply for not being believed.

          "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

          by Neuroptimalian on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 07:27:55 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Oopsy! That is the exact logic abusers use (5+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            slothlax, FiredUpInCA, Ahianne, OIL GUY, markw

            to justify whatever they decide to do to their victims.

            "If you didn't __, I wouldn't have had to shoot the dog."

            "If you weren't so ____, I woudn't have had to come down so hard on the kid." [After the kid was in the ER with broken bones.]

            "If you don't want to stay home with our child all the time, (even while I'm running around on you with a new girlfriend), I'm justified in killing you."

            [Hint: that last one was the driving rationale behind one of the recent notorious murder/suicides, whose name I shall not honor.]

            •  Not being an abuser, ... (0+ / 0-)

              and being female, that assumption is rejected as being without merit.  Oopsy!

              "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

              by Neuroptimalian on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 09:49:39 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Same logic as the UofA professor who (4+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                slothlax, FiredUpInCA, OIL GUY, markw

                after being denied tenure came back and shot several of her colleagues.

                By your logic she was justified in her intense anger.

                •  Whether or not she was justified in her anger, ... (0+ / 0-)

                  she was not justified in murdering innocent people.  Neither was Dorner.  I've never said otherwise, and it was a leap in logic (or lack of reading comprehension) to believe otherwise.  I HAVE said that Dorner was justified in his anger, and I stand by that.  Anyone would be.  

                  "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

                  by Neuroptimalian on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 02:37:28 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  missing the point (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    LilithGardener

                    You're missing the point.  Once somebody proves themselves to be a violent abuser and murderer, all their prior claims can be assumed to be less credible, not equally credible as before. A bit of Bayesian logic.

                    •  That's ridiculous "logic". (0+ / 0-)

                      That's like saying no one can be driven to anger because, in acting in anger, the event which caused the anger never happened.

                      Still, this is a PERFECT example of what happens when one "assumes", as the old joke goes.

                      "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

                      by Neuroptimalian on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 08:26:37 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Totally different (0+ / 0-)

                        If somebody is one day calm and the next day angry, it's reasonable to wonder what made them angry.

                        However, being treated unfairly won't drive a fair-minded sane person to kill the children of the person who they claimed didn't treat them well. Murdering four people you never met before suggests you were pretty messed up to begin with.

                  •  Here's your statement (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    FiredUpInCA
                    Besides, if it didn't happen as Dorner claims, why would he be so angry?
                    I read that sentence as you stating your belief that Dorner's extreme anger is strong supportive evidence for deciding the truth of his account.

                    It's not.

                    Intense anger may be in response to something that really happened, or to something imagined that never happened, or to a memory of something similar that happened in the past. It's not possible to know what causes extreme anger without corroboration from "impartial" witnesses.

                    One of the strongest rebuttal's to your opinion that Dorner is justifibly angry is his manifesto, in which he recounts multiple violent encounters when he responded to perceived insults/slurs/bullying by others. He even describes initiating the violent encounters and claims others at the time were lying about him.

                    It's a pattern Neuro.

                    Dorner confessed, in his manifesto, a pattern of feeling justified to react violently to perceived injustices toward himslef or someone else. I interpret that to mean Dorner has a temper, and feels justified in "putting things right" immediately when he's angry. Poor impulse control + poor judgment is where we were before he executed criminal fantasies. With his manifesto I see a capacity for self-serving story telling mixed with paranoia and entitlement. He seems proud of his capacity to incite terror.

              •  And no, I didn't assume or accuse you of (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                FiredUpInCA

                being an abuser, nor of being a man.

            •  great point (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              LilithGardener

              Or, if you remember the story from a couple of years ago, "If you all hadn't unfairly denied me tenure, I wouldn't have had to murder you all!"

          •  The logic of you last paragraph, it's circular. (5+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            slothlax, FiredUpInCA, Ahianne, OIL GUY, markw

            And not at all rational.

            Besides, if it didn't happen as Dorner claims, why would he be so angry?  If she had not kicked the man in the face, there would be no reason for Dorner to be so enraged as to kill so many people simply for not being believed.
            Think about what you've just said. He may or may not have been angry about other things too.

            She may have lied, or she may have told the truth. It's difficult for any of us to know, but you've read enough information that you believe him to be truthful and totally blameless. But instead of just stating that, you pose it as a question.

            You are saying that going on a killing spree is the logical result of intense [justified] anger.  I oppose that assumption. There are many angry people who don't go on killing sprees. There are many killers who have all sorts of reasons for their anger.

          •  You have no clue (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            slothlax, FiredUpInCA, OIL GUY, markw

            You're making suppositions about this incident and you have no first or even second hand information.
            And then there's this gem:

            Besides, if it didn't happen as Dorner claims, why would he be so angry?
            How about because he's crazy?
            You know - crazy like a guy that would go out and slaughter innocent people to prove a point.
          •  I commend what seems to be your intent (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            FiredUpInCA

            I commend what seems to be your intent, "Innocent unless proven guilty."

            But I think many are applying that principle preferentially to Dorner and not applying the same principle to Evans, the Officer he accused.

            The Judge's Opinion points out that in a he said/she said situation the burden is on the accuser to provide proof. He didn't have sufficient proof, e.g. an impartial witness.

            The father stated at one point that the son (who has schizophrenia) stated X, but the father also stated that his son's statements may or may not be reliable, depending on his medication status.

      •  Reading the entire manifesto (5+ / 0-)

        reveals a man that has doesn't believe in patience and laws. He believes in choking and going off  if things don't go his way.

        It's instructive not to read excerpts of his manifesto but his entire manifesto.

        http://gawker.com/...

        He's been a ticking bomb that should not have been an officer in the first place.

        "I am not interested in picking up crumbs of compassion thrown from the table of someone who considers himself my master. I want the full menu of rights." (From "You Said a Mouthful" by Bishop Desmond Tutu - South African bishop & activist, b.1931)

        by FiredUpInCA on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 07:33:25 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Sez who? (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        slothlax, beaky, OIL GUY, markw

        You? - You've got nothing to back up your statement.

        at one point Dorner was a principled, socially conscious LAPD officer
        Again - sez who? His ex wife calls him twisted. A woman that dated him for a while was so frightened of him she warned other women about him.
        He's not killing people because he's a man trying to prove a point.
        He's slaughtering innocent people because it makes him feel like a big man.
        There's a big difference - one this diary fails to recognize.
        •  I read his manifesto and interpret it as (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          FiredUpInCA

          part confession and somewhat bragging about his capacity to inflict terror. That colors my interpretation of all his accounts of his past conflicts and fights. He's a bully, and proud of it. Get's off on intimidating people.

  •  He received a bad evaluation the day (5+ / 0-)

    before he accused his sargent of kicking a suspect.

    On Aug. 9, Evans gave Dorner an evaluation that said he needed to improve in the areas of officer safety, common sense and good judgment. The next day, Dorner reported Evans' alleged kicking of Gettler to an LAPD captain. According to the captain's court testimony, Dorner "expressed remorse that he failed to report what he believed to be misconduct (unnecessary kicks applied to an arrestee) that he witnessed two weeks prior."

    The LAPD decided to fire Dorner in September 2008 for lying about the incident, but with Dorner's lawsuit, it took until Feb. 5, 2009, to take effect, according to court documents.

    http://www.scpr.org/...

    Retaliation is obviously part of this guys MO.

    Most of the people taking a hard line against us are firmly convinced that they are the last defenders of civilization... The last stronghold of mother, God, home and apple pie and they're full of shit! David Crosby, Journey Thru the Past.

    by Mike S on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 05:46:28 PM PST

    •  Other articles show that he had confided in (6+ / 0-)

      a Sergeant friend before this evaluation and immediately after the incident who advised him to report it, or he would.

      Also, the eval wasn't a "bad eval" it was just a performance review. He knew he was having issues. He REQUESTED reintegration training. He had just returned from a one year deployment after only completing basic police training.

      "Mitt Romney looks like the CEO who fires you, then goes to the Country Club and laughs about it with his friends." ~ Thomas Roberts MSNBC

      by second gen on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 05:53:16 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Another excuse. I knew it wasn't his fault. He (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        slothlax, markw

        was forced to murder family members of cops.  It all makes so much sense.  Since his reasons for the murders are rational, his statements about the lying conspiring cops, the hearing board, witnesses that weren't cops and everyone else, except those that believe him on here are also from rational mind.

        And why is that people believe him on here????

        Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

        by thestructureguy on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 10:15:52 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I never said it justified any murders. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          RonV

          Putting words in my mouth doesn't make your case any.

          "Mitt Romney looks like the CEO who fires you, then goes to the Country Club and laughs about it with his friends." ~ Thomas Roberts MSNBC

          by second gen on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 10:55:22 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  That's the same allegation that got him fired. (0+ / 0-)

      That's the same allegation that was the subject of the disciplinary charges that resulted in his termination.

      •  Yes it is. Nt (0+ / 0-)

        Most of the people taking a hard line against us are firmly convinced that they are the last defenders of civilization... The last stronghold of mother, God, home and apple pie and they're full of shit! David Crosby, Journey Thru the Past.

        by Mike S on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 06:06:01 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Everyone associated with apologies for Dorner (6+ / 0-)

    ...should be banned from Daily Kos.

    You know, I sometimes think if I could see, I'd be kicking a lot of ass. -Stevie Wonder at the Glastonbury Festival, 2010

    by Rich in PA on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 06:53:39 PM PST

  •  No pixels should be used (9+ / 0-)

    empathizing with this damaged, narcissistic, vigilante.

    I am here to change and make policy. The culture of LAPD versus the community and honest/good officers needs to and will change. I am here to correct and calibrate your morale compasses to true north.

    Those Caucasian officers who join South Bureau divisions (77th,SW,SE, an Harbor) with the sole intent to victimize minorities who are uneducated, and unaware of criminal law, civil law, and civil rights. You prefer the South bureau because a use of force/deadly force is likely and the individual you use UOF on will likely not report it. You are a high value target.

    Those Black officers in supervisory ranks and pay grades who stay in south bureau (even though you live in the valley or OC) for the sole intent of getting retribution toward subordinate caucasians officers for the pain and hostile work environment their elders inflicted on you as probationers (P-1′s) and novice P-2′s. You are a high value target. You perpetuated the cycle of racism in the department as well. You breed a new generation of bigoted caucasian officer when you belittle them and treat them unfairly.

    Those Hispanic officers who victimize their own ethnicity because they are new immigrants to this country and are unaware of their civil rights. You call them wetbacks to their face and demean them in front of fellow officers of different ethnicities so that you will receive some sort of acceptance from your colleagues. I'm not impressed. Most likely, your parents or grandparents were immigrants at one time, but you have forgotten that. You are a high value target.

    Those lesbian officers in supervising positions who go to work, day in day out, with the sole intent of attempting to prove your misandrist authority (not feminism) to degrade male officers. You are a high value target.

    Those Asian officers who stand by and observe everything I previously mentioned other officers participate in on a daily basis but you say nothing, stand for nothing and protect nothing. Why? Because of your usual saying, " I……don't like conflict". You are a high value target as well.

    http://gawker.com/...

    If this sick "manifesto" came from a southern bigot who set himself up as judge, jury and executioner, proudly proclaiming on his Facebook page that he deemed African American, Latino, Asian and lesbian officers as high value targets; then killed three people while vowing to kill the children and spouses of others, would we care if his manifesto was "articulate" or if he got a raw deal when he was fired?

    I am seriously flabbergasted at the empathetic treatment that this murderer of three people is getting.

    "I am not interested in picking up crumbs of compassion thrown from the table of someone who considers himself my master. I want the full menu of rights." (From "You Said a Mouthful" by Bishop Desmond Tutu - South African bishop & activist, b.1931)

    by FiredUpInCA on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 07:33:54 PM PST

    •  I have no empathy for his recent choices (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RonV, WakeUpNeo

      but I do question the system that helped create the current situation.

      That is as it should be.

      We can either look at what he has to say or we can hide our heads in the sand and wait until the next incident, or murder,or riot.

      Because until we stop hiding our heads in the sand nothing will change.

      It is the heart that makes a man rich. He is rich according to what he is not what he has -Henry Ward Beecher

      by PSWaterspirit on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 08:00:16 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  PSW - So big of you (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        slothlax, FiredUpInCA, markw
        I have no empathy for his recent choices
        How Orwellian. How about saying it like it is.
        Recent choices really means slaughtering innocent people.
        It means continuing to be on the hunt to slaughter more innocent people.
        It means pulling cops away from doing the job we depend on them to do.
        The folks that are buying this maniac's con job are the ones that need to pull their head out.
        •  Police cheif kills wife (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          gffish, WakeUpNeo

          after police department covers his brutality for 27 year.
          Including firing a couple of officers that filed complaints.

          She was a friend of mine, his department was worried more about is career than his families lives.

          Thats why becuase I know it happens and happens all the time.

          It is the heart that makes a man rich. He is rich according to what he is not what he has -Henry Ward Beecher

          by PSWaterspirit on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 09:36:54 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  No link? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            markw

            First - I would like to see a link.
            Second - just because a friend of yours was a victim does not mean "it happens all the time".
            How about the woman that was killed by this guy? How about her fiancé - an african american?
            I think you're missing the boat on this one.

            Be that as it may - I am sorry about your friend and any injustice that was done.

            •  David Brame (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              slothlax, gffish, WakeUpNeo

              Google it yourself.

              Since Crystals death and the law suit on behalf of her children brought out what exactly the Tacoma police deparment had done.

              I have followed many other stories from all over the country that are very much the same. They have all had long histories of excessive force. They get kept their jobs and often got promoted then they finally did something so bad that couldn't be hidden. There are may every year and those are the ones that actually come to light.

              It is the heart that makes a man rich. He is rich according to what he is not what he has -Henry Ward Beecher

              by PSWaterspirit on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 10:08:51 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  We just see it differently (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                slothlax, PSWaterspirit

                I have personally had my bacon saved by cops. More than just a couple times too.
                And most the cops I knew were just folks like you and me doing a crappy job no one else wants to do.

                So - it seems like we just view the police differently.

                •  I know good ones as well (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  slothlax, Capt Crunch, WakeUpNeo

                  Unfortuately this county where I live has some bad ones also. They aparently learned nothing from the above police cheif.  Most departments don't seem to be very good at weeding the bad ones out.

                  That to me is a problem for the good ones. When the bad ones do stuff they shouldn't they hurt the credibility of the department. The ones that are honest and decent are put in danger as well.

                  It is the heart that makes a man rich. He is rich according to what he is not what he has -Henry Ward Beecher

                  by PSWaterspirit on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 11:33:30 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

      •  I question that system all the time (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        FiredUpInCA

        I don't need a homicidal lunatic to make me think the police could use a culture change.

        There is truth on all sides. The question is how much.

        by slothlax on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 09:12:26 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Who cares. He's a crazy cop killer. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Capt Crunch, slothlax, OIL GUY, markw

    Who the eff cares if he got a raw deal.  

    If he was a Tea Partier, would you be posting this?  No.

    I so wanted to hide this.  

    Many hands make light work, but light hearts make heavy work the lightest of all.

    by SpamNunn on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 08:07:28 PM PST

    •  I haven't become so cynical yet (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RonV, WakeUpNeo

      that I've stopped caring about fairness and trying to figure out why an otherwise normal person would suddenly become a crazy cop killer. Dorner's politics are immaterial to me. All other facts being equal, I would have posted this if he had identified himself as a member of the tea party.

      •  The guy is still on the loose (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SpamNunn, OIL GUY, markw

        And using the Internet.  He's probably reading this right now and smiling as he plans his next murder.

        There is truth on all sides. The question is how much.

        by slothlax on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 08:52:40 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Trying to make a cop killer more (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        slothlax, lazybum, OIL GUY, markw

        sympathetic by portraying him as a misunderstood whistleblower?  Please.

        Many hands make light work, but light hearts make heavy work the lightest of all.

        by SpamNunn on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 09:03:39 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Why does being a cop (0+ / 0-)

          make your murder a bigger deal than someone else's? I've never understood this. Perhaps you can explain it to me.

          I'm sure you have seen a movie where someone portraying a bad cop was killed. Did you cry for the bad cop in the film? I'm curious about this.

          •  For better or worse (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            SpamNunn

            Cops are the people who enforce order in society, without which there is no civilization.  So killing a cop is attacking the very foundation of civilized society.

            There is truth on all sides. The question is how much.

            by slothlax on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 10:06:06 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Actually, I dont believe thats true (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              slothlax

              Cops are a modern form of enforcement. Many ancient societies didn't have police officers. They did have authority figures, for sure. Usually religious or military. Let's put it another way. Say I walk into the Amazon and meet a tribe that has had no contact with the outside world. Do you think they would have a cop?

              •  No, they wouldn't (0+ / 0-)

                But there would be an authority figure, which you point out.  And violence or the threat of violence will be used to maintain order in such a situation, just in a more informal way.  As settlements become larger and more complex, a formal police force becomes necessary.

                There is truth on all sides. The question is how much.

                by slothlax on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 10:20:06 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Good (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  slothlax, RedPrairie

                  Now do you think the Mayans, Greeks, Phoenicians, Egyptians etc had cops? My point is in these societies the society would police it themselves. They would see someone doing wrong and bring it up with a person with authority and it worked very well for them. In our society the cop is not used like that. He is used like on how a slave plantation in the role of the Overseer. Overseer sounds a lot like Officer. I don't believe that a coincidence. Which is why the are referred to as such terms as peacekeeper. What cops really do is reinforce the inequalities of a modern society. Which is why I cringe when democrats ask for more cops. You should not ask for more cope but more detectives. Solving crime. Because cops don't prevent crime. The ideals of what progressives bleieve prevent crimes. Better pay, better working conditions etc... Just wanted to point that out.

                  •  I agree with most of that (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    kdnla

                    But I think the societies you point to were a lot more violent and chaotic than you are letting on.  People policed themselves through cycles of vengeance and vendettas.

                    That said, the idea of more detectives and less patrolmen seems sound to me.  But detectives are only involved after the fact, while patrolmen get involved in stopping things that are ongoing.

                    There is truth on all sides. The question is how much.

                    by slothlax on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 10:36:31 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Exactly (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      slothlax

                      Just like how you put more and more cops in a ghetto and it doesn't get any better. That doesn't mean you don't put any at all. Have a good one bro.

                    •  You also made a good point with the ancient .. (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      slothlax

                      societies.. It was a good discussion so I wanna elaborate a bit. I don't think they were as chaotic as you believe they were. Some were. But if you society really was that violent and chaotic then I don't believe they could have grown as they did.  
                      From what I understand ancient Egypt collapsed from climate change. The Nile didn't give the annual floods like it used to to fill up their canals. Maybe a volcano went off or something. Most others are conquered. Now the Mayans you would be exactly right. As you said, it got more and more violent and chaotic because from what I understand they didn't get conquered. They were unable to police themselves. So people were like screw this, I'm outtie. After all, there's descendants of the Maya around today but the society is gone. Just like how the Aztecs were probably on the verge of collapse when Cortez showed up. Otherwise I don't believe he could have pulled off the stuff that he did. They were getting more and more violent and chaotic as well. So when it did come they ended up killing Montezuma and not Cortez.

                      •  Yeah, chaotic might be a little off (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        kdnla

                        Your are right that these societies, even the Maya and Aztecs, were able to continue on as large organizations for long periods of time, so there was order in a broad sense.  But homicide rates (pretty much basing this off of Jared Diamond) are higher in more primitive hunter gatherer type societies.

                        I studied Dark Ages Europe in college.  The kings continuously passed laws against vengeance killings, which leads to the conclusion that this was an ongoing problem for generations.  It wasn't until the state had the power to supplant the local "barons" (who were essentially just gang leaders) in the administration of justice that the practice subsided.

                        Police forces as we know them didn't arise until the Industrial Revolution saw the rapid increase of urban populations.  I think they were started for the right reasons, but I agree that they are sometimes used for the wrong reasons.  But without them I don't think we would be able to have the safety in our everyday lives that we take for granted.

                        There is truth on all sides. The question is how much.

                        by slothlax on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 11:54:31 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Cool, so lets bring this full circle. (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          slothlax

                          Rise of the industrial revolution was after the fall of slavery. Basically labor replacing slavery. The Overseer became the Officer. The slave plantation owner became the Robber Baron. It not a coincidence that public and private police forces were and still brought in the break labor and social strikes. Just as the Overseer was there to make the slaves keep working and not run away.

                          I believe cops have a role as first responders. Like Paramedics. They have a side role of chilling people out by their presence. Like that old London beat cop swinging his baton walking the streets. Which is basically someone who can respond quickly because he's in the area. The problems arise when they or other people think they should expand their roles. Let the detectives solve the crimes. Let better living conditions take care of crime.

                          What I got out of this manifesto is the LAPD is out of control. I've had quite a few experiences with the LAPD. They are out of control. Not all but it is a culture that goes back decades. Its just sad that this dude thinks he has to go all Rambo on them to point it out. Its also sadder that after every riot etc that happens, nothing gets done. Maybe this time it will, who knows.

                          •  I'm with ya (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            kdnla

                            I do think the police have a fundamental role to play in society.

                            I don't make the same slavery connection you do, but I'm a white guy and you're a black guy so I think that "colors" our experiences so to speak and I respect where you are coming from with your conclusions.  I'd say the connection between Overseer and Officer isn't quite so much a direct conscious action, more like a parallel.  Keep in mind that Europe had abandoned slavery long before the Industrial Revolution.

                            But far too many police officers I've come into contact with have the exact problem you point out.  They expand their roles.  They seem to think they are some kind of arbiters of morality.  

                            That was brought home to me personally when I was robbed and the officer who responded to my call basically told me it was my fault and I wasn't a victim because I'm not an old lady who was mugged by teenagers.  I was in the wrong neighborhood, I should have known better.  What is the point of having police if they just blame the victim?

                            I think a big part of the problem is that, especially in cities, the police don't actually live in the neighborhoods they patrol.  They don't have a stake in the community.  And they think that since their position deserves respect, they don't have to earn respect as individuals.  That chip on their shoulder leads them to act like assholes and think we should all just accept that.  When we don't accept the idea that a badge means you can treat people like shit they get pissed and wonder what is wrong with us instead of trying to put themselves in our shoes.  Whenever cops (or their family members) are engaged in petty (and sometimes not so petty) crime, they pull out their badge and don't get subjected to the humiliation they inflict on everyone else.

                            And yes, the best way to combat crime is to make crime undesirable because getting a good job and being a "normal" member of society is a reasonable expectation, not a distant hope.  More cops and more prison time are not the answers.

                            There is truth on all sides. The question is how much.

                            by slothlax on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 01:22:13 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                  •  False equivalency to the overseer, making us what? (0+ / 0-)

                    Slaves?   And who is the Massa?   Please.  You just don't care for cops.  

                    Call an ideal when someone breaks into your house, because I am sure you don't own a gun, either!

                    Many hands make light work, but light hearts make heavy work the lightest of all.

                    by SpamNunn on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 07:14:38 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I think its valid (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      slothlax

                      And I never have called the cops when something was broken into like my car. Don't own a gun. Don't need too. I do own a machete and have a very well trained German Shepard. I feel sorry for the guy who breaks into my house personally.

          •  My Dad was a cop. He survived being shot at (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            OIL GUY, markw

            several times.  It's more important to me, not only because police put themselves in danger to protect us, but because they are someone's parent.  That's all.   If you don't like cops, that's your business.  

            Many hands make light work, but light hearts make heavy work the lightest of all.

            by SpamNunn on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 07:12:19 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  He is killing both policemen (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            FiredUpInCA, markw

            and civilians.  Seeking revenge by killing your imagined enemies children is so despicable that it cannot be justified, no matter how hard some people try.

            We have had too many diaries which seek to somehow justify this murder spree.

            Here's my take on it - the revolution will not be blogged, it has to be slogged. - Deoliver47

            by OIL GUY on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 08:39:16 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

  •  I just read the manifesto (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slothlax, PSWaterspirit

    As a former black resident of Los Angeles, he is right. That doesn't excuse his actions. Just pointing out the things I saw growing up in LA match all of his. Even some of the places he grew up was the same. I had the same things happen to me growing up there. I did a lot of the same things like beat the shit out of some kids for calling me a nigger. The LAPD called me a nigger on various occasions. If this was a movie then I wonder if it would turn out or people would feel differently about it.....

    I also see that a couple of my rambling posts match his. Wow. I shall take some time to reflect on how he tried to do all the right things in life and I gave up pretty early yet he's the one whose wanted and I'm a single guy trying to put his life back in order after doing a lot of wrong things and raising a great kid. Thank you.

  •  I don't care what deal he got. (6+ / 0-)

    He's a maniac and a killer of innocent people. And he's out to kill more innocent people.
    As for his concern about civil rights and african americans - he slaughtered an african american with his bride to be while they were sitting in a car. Bothering nobody. Completely innocent.
    This diary is got it all wrong. He's not killing because he's trying to spread the word about perceived racism in the LAPD.
    He's killing because it makes him,a cold blooded murderer, feel like a big man. This diary falls for his con job.
    In addition to that this diary drags down the reputation of Daily Kos. To have anybody on the left sympathize with the bullshit spewed out by this worthless lump of flesh is just horrible.
    Where is the sense of proportion? Where is the concern about the victims? Where is the concern about the potential victims? You know - the family members of those he's upset with.
    This kind of diary paints the left as sympathetic to cold blooded, heartless murdering maniacs.
    This kind of diary has no place on a rational thinking website.

  •  It's always someone elses fault, everyone is (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slothlax, gffish, FiredUpInCA, markw

    lying, he is the shining light of truth and justice and everyone else is against him.  And since they are it's righteous for him to execute those and their families.  

    I'm sure his list is much longer than what is in his manifesto.  In his mind I wouldn't be surprised if some of those middle school kids are on his list.  

    A raw deal?  Of course.  How else can you explain how such a good man could be forced in to killing innocent people.  He didn't want to, he was made to.  It's someone else fault he murdered them, not his.  

    Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

    by thestructureguy on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 10:08:49 PM PST

  •  Who Cares if His Manifesto is True? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slothlax

    He's killed three completely innocent people.  Yes, his allegations should be investigated as a separate matter and I think it's likely that the LAPD has many of the problems that he describes, but there can't be any justification, explanation or redemption for what he's done.

    It's pretty clear that he'll kill more innocent people if he can, and that he'll never allow himself to be captured alive.  Here's hoping the police hunting him are good shots, and they can stop him before he kills again.

  •  bearing in mind, this is the same LAPD (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kdnla, wu ming, gffish, WakeUpNeo

    who opened fire on not one, but two different vehicles, that they (wrongly) thought were dorner's, with no warning, no effort to ascertain whether or not they actually were the right vehicles. luckily, no one was killed. the LAPD has a long and notorious history of brutality, civil rights violations and outright murder, of suspects in custody. absolutely nothing they have been accused of, should surprise anyone who hasn't been living in a cave for the past 50 years.

    •  Yeah (0+ / 0-)

      Did you see all the bullet holes in that car? All shot from the back mind you. This case gets fishier and fishier the more research I'm putting into it. The LAPD is opening up on its citizens without checking anything. The cars and suspects descriptions aren't even close before they opened fire in separate incidents, nearly killing an old lady delivering newspapers. I also saw the interview with the mentally challenged person, Christopher Gettler, he got fired over when they concluded she didn't kick him. I'll post a link.

      http://www.youtube.com/...

      I found him credible and you can see he has mental problems. He did say he was kicked in the face by the female officer one time like Dorden said and in the same place that he was injured and treated for it.

      Also, gun nuts are making this a case where public police officers cant be trusted with guns and that's why they need their AR-15. In the manifesto Dorden mentions how easy it was for him to get all these weapons and recommended a lot of them be banned. Including silencers...

      Somethings rotten in Denmark here....

  •  I'd sure hate to be the two civilian witnesses (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    markw

    from the hotel.  His kill list is pretty long and there are probably a few he left off his manifesto.  

    Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

    by thestructureguy on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 07:37:55 AM PST

  •  Chris Dorner may be a monster. (0+ / 0-)

    And I believe he is.

    There is no justifiction for his actions. None.

    But was he always such a homicidal monster?

    What triggered his current irrational and homicidal actions?

    Might there be some truth to his claims --- even though this would never justify his recent murderous behavior?

    Chris Dorner is also an American citizen --- and I hope others would agree he should enjoy the same protections under the U.S. Constitution for due process that we all claim for ourselves?

    "Shoot on sight" should never be the only option, should it?

    Consider this guy, IMO also a monster:

    Robert Bales

    Certainly no "hero" by any "civilized" standard.

    What might these individuals, Bales and Dorner, have in common?

    What might we learn from examining all the circumstances?

    Diary tipped and rec'd.

  •  Jump Out Boys (0+ / 0-)

    The more the media represses the truth, the more interested I get in what they're hiding. Dorner's "Manifesto" mentions that the police enjoy getting paid overtime if the victims they've come to help die. Now we hear that a few of these guys are going to get fired for being part of that "secret police society" known as the "Jump Out Boys." Look it up.  I think its time we send these officers "Back to Iraq"
    where this callous behavior wins you medals, honor and the title of "hero" where here in the states it only means a promotion.

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