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Tonya Battle, a longtime nurse at Hurley Medical Center in Flint, Michigan; was caring for a newborn baby in the neonatal ICU when out of nowhere, the baby's dad asked that she not be allowed to care for the child anymore?  Why?  Because Battle is black.  This guy requested that no black nurses be allowed near the baby--a request granted by hospital officials.  Now Battle is suing for discrimination.

The man approached Battle, while she was caring for his child in the hospital's neonatal intensive care unit, asking to speak to her supervisor, according to the complaint filed in January by Battle's attorney.

She pointed the charge nurse in his direction.

The man, who is not named in the filing, allegedly showed her a tattoo that may have been "a swastika of some kind" and told her that he didn't want African-Americans involved in his baby's care.

The request, according to the lawsuit, made its way through management ranks, and was granted. Battle's manager called her at home to tell her she would be reassigned -- and why, the suit says.

The lawsuit, viewable here (hat tip to WNEM-TV in Bay City) says that the incident occurred on Halloween.  Almost fitting, since the fact this sort of thing can occur in 2013 is a horror story.  The next day, the hospital not only agreed to the dad's request that no black nurses be allowed around the baby--and even put a note on the clipboard saying "No African-American nurse to take care of baby."  Even worse, when the hospital's lawyer told the nurse manager that this was illegal, no black nurses were assigned to care for the baby for over a month.

I'm shaking with anger so much that I can hardly type.  This is one of the most outrageous instances of discrimination I've seen in a long time.  When I calm down, I'm dropping the hospital a line here.

Originally posted to Christian Dem in NC on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 01:15 PM PST.

Also republished by Black Kos community.

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    The NRA's response to calls for responsible gun law reform: noun, verb, Second Amendment

    by Christian Dem in NC on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 01:15:35 PM PST

    •  Indeed. My e-mail to the hospital: (35+ / 0-)
      RE: Lawsuit: Race-based request sidelined Michigan nurse

      http://www.cnn.com/...

      I am so glad I don't live in Flint, Michigan, because I cannot believe that in the year 2013 in a so-called "the 10th most liberal city in the United States", your hospital's management would accede to a man's request for no black nurses to tend to his newborn child.  Your management, which accepted the man's request, are racists.

      What a despicable way to bring a new human being into life.  What a terrible lesson in allowing the prejudiced views of one to affect the rights of many.  

      Don't even bother responding with some carefully-crafted PR response about taking public healthcare or diversity seriously; you took a racist's request seriously, which is all I need to know about your institution to assess your ethical foundations as a hospital.

      Follow me on Twitter: @THTBAW. I crush trolls with truth, boredom with snark, and ignorance with links.

      by therehastobeaway on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 06:16:40 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Actually, not as uncommon as you may think (16+ / 0-)

      It was easy when I waited tables at Denny's in the aughts because the company had a very clear policy.  If a customer asked for a different server or cook for reasons related to race, gender, disability, age, etc, I just quoted from the handbook--"It is against Denny's company policy to discriminate on the basis of ......  This applies to customers and employees."  In short, the worker had a right to serve the customer and no right to refuse service on any of those bases.  I had a few customers leave over it, not many, and no one was sad to see them go.

      Very few hospitals have clear policies like this.  The right of a patient to receive treatment is paramount, and it often gets muddied by the prejudices and preferences of less-than-rational family members.  It's not just on the basis of race, either.  You get people saying they don't want their mom, dad, sister, spouse...attended to by a man, a woman, a gay person, a Mexican, etc.  This stuff is usually resolved when the care provider voluntarily gives up responsibility for the patient and someone else steps in.  I don't think I've ever heard of hospital administrators stepping in to resolve it, and for good reason.

      I personally would prefer hospitals have policies that disallow discrimination by patients, but there's actually a lot to weigh here.   Issues like how much say a patient or guardian should have over who provides care, and the role of management in arbitrating these situations need to be addressed.

      I'll be watching this case to see how it gets resolved.  It's an important set of questions, and I hope the courts won't shrink from addressing them.

      •  For one hour...maybe one day...but a month? (4+ / 0-)

        When the hospital's legal counsel clearly informed the manager that the action was illegal?

        No.  The hospital had plenty of time to resolve this.

        •  I'm curious (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Oh Mary Oh, Dvalkure, Cameron Hoppe

          First, obviously, there is ZERO valid reason for demanding medical personnel be of a given skin color. But I have refused male doctors since a male doctor sexually assaulted me (and every attempt to report the assault was met with I made the whole thing up and besides it was my fault). I've said I'll wait as long as it takes for a woman. Is a hospital breaking the law if they say OK? Can they force me to be examined by a man - and it would take actual physical force? This is sort of off topic but I am curious.

          I hope this nurse wins substantial damages. Too bad this innocent child is going to be poisoned by such toxic parents.

          •  In the nursing home (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Cameron Hoppe

            female resident's who were of sound mind were allowed to request no male aides.  Male doctor & nurses, or female aides of any color, no.  CNA's give baths, & some of those ladies were virgins.  They could refuse a CNA only for gender reasons.  The male aides usually ended up with a group of men and dementia patients, although many ladies had no objection to male aides whatsoever!  Believe it or not, gay male aides were very popular.

            "The light which puts out our sight is darkness to us." Thoreau

            by NancyWH on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 01:53:44 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  What's quality of care have to do with race? (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        eru, Oh Mary Oh, deepeco, JVolvo

        That's right.  It doesn't have anything to do with it.

        •  If patient refuse to comply with instructions (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          NancyWH, Cameron Hoppe

          Their care givers give them because of resentments or resistance due to any kind of bigotry, car can be compromised.

          As the comment above indicates, this is more complex in health care settings and happens more often than you might want to believe, most because of the intimacy involved in providing care .

          Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel

          by a gilas girl on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 11:11:14 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  An infant would refuse to do what (0+ / 0-)

            it's told?  Give me an fffing break here.  Stop with these 'scenarios'.

            Furthermore, if someone who is an adult bigot refuse to do what is necessary to help with their own care as instructed, then they compromise their own care.

            As Ann Romney would say -- 'stop it'.

            •  The stories I've heard indicate that this (0+ / 0-)

              tends to happen most often with elderly patients, and is no small matter, since many of the folks who do the Patient Care Assistant work tend to look like the population of the nation, rather than looking like the US Senate.  

              I'm not creating scenarios, I am agreeing with folks who work in health care and would tell you that this kind of issue is one that health care organizations have to deal with regularly and most of them have policies.  The choices that this organization made don't make a lot of sense.  

              But the point that the problem isn't that unusual stands.

              Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel

              by a gilas girl on Tue Feb 19, 2013 at 06:07:25 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

      •  My response to this (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Cameron Hoppe

        would be to roster on ONLY nurses of color for a day or two, then sit back and wait for this guy to complain that his child needed to be medicated / fed / changed / revived, etc.

        Snark, but wouldn't that be great?...

        ‘‘For Barack, success isn’t about how much money you make, it’s about the differences you make in people’s lives.’’ ~ Michelle Obama, DNC, 4 Sep 2012

        by harchickgirl1 on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 01:24:38 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Maybe someone should check for similar tattoos (94+ / 0-)

    on hospital administrators.  How can they possibly justify caving in to such a request, unless they too think that way about African Americans?

    Skeptical scrutiny is the means, in both science and religion, by which deep thoughts can be winnowed from deep nonsense. Carl Sagan

    by sjburnman on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 01:21:39 PM PST

    •  So- I am curious. (16+ / 0-)

      The hospital was just supposed to force a particular nurse onto this case despite a statement from the family that they preferred otherwise?  There were probably enough patients for the African-American nurse to have an assignment without creating an issue for this family.  With a child sick enough to be in NICU, the family is dealing with enough.  It is not the hospital, or the charge nurse's job to change these people's views.  Its their job to support the family and care for the little one.  If the family doesn't want a black nurse, despite the fact that NICU nurses are almost always fantastic and passionate nurses, then why add that conflict to the situation?

      It is better to not even create those barriers to care, no matter how much one may personally wish to confront that bigotry.

      I'm living in an age that calls darkness light.

      by electricgrendel on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 02:01:14 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

        •  I would be very interested to see how it plays out (13+ / 0-)

          Because if gender, creed, etc are not supposed to be used in the basis of assignment I will be a very rich man soon enough.  At 6'6", I am regularly assigned to patients based on my gender and my physical attributes.  I am given unruly patients for the simple fact that I am physically large enough to change their behavior.

          Should I sue because of discrimination in assignment?  Or because protected attributes are used in the determination of my job?

          This is not a cut and dry issue for "OMG LET'S SCREAM ABOUT RACISM!!!"  There's a lot of complexity to this issue, whether people wish to recognize that while also enjoying their jolt of self-righteous anger.

          I'm living in an age that calls darkness light.

          by electricgrendel on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 02:16:42 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  interesting that you are assigned as primary (41+ / 0-)

            caregiver for "unruly" pts as, years ago, they assigned female nurses to AD pts simply because the pts are so violent and so fragile.  Simply restraining a pt can lead to a broken arm which will not heal well.  Therefore, smaller caregivers were less likely to restrain to a degree which could cause fractures.  At the time I, among others, was the restrainer of last resort because AD pts, while frail, can also be incredibly strong    

            I still say that pigmentation has no bearing on a caregiver's ability to render care i.e. larger male orderlies are used to assist pts into whirlpools and into sling baths simply because they can assist the pts with the least likelihood of injury to the pt. hard to see how pigmentation would play into such a consideration

            race is a pigment of the imagination

          •  Colour of skin doesn't affect level of care... (27+ / 0-)

            however your size and strength obviously does, and is utilised so. There's a reason why women are few and far between in the building industry or on oil rigs etc.

            Should men be allowed to sue to get the levels of women up to parity in those industries?

            This really is a cut and dry racism issue, and no it's not complicated at all.

            'If you want to be a hero, well just follow me.' - J. Lennon

            by Clive all hat no horse Rodeo on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 02:38:34 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Excuse me? (10+ / 0-)
              There's a reason why women are few and far between in the building industry or on oil rigs etc.
              We are few and far between because of discrimination by men, usually white men.  Don't give me that line of b.s.

              "I have to go... There are two gay men knocking on my door asking me if I need any abortions or marijuana. Diary, this may be my last entry" Facebook hysteria after 2012 election

              by pitbullgirl65 on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 03:07:46 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Women Are As Strong? (3+ / 0-)

                While you might be right that regardless of a woman's strength she' still rarely get a job on an oil rig, do you disagree that judged only on physical ability women should still be rarer than men on oil rigs and in building construction?

                "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

                by DocGonzo on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:05:43 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Should be? (8+ / 0-)

                  See my answer below to Clive.  Have you ever watched womens weight lifting?  Before I got lazy, I was dead lifting 150 lbs.  
                  During WWII women were doing mens jobs AND doing great at it.
                  It was only when the men came home they lost their jobs.
                  There is so much sexism still even from my  called  liberals and progressive men. I'm fucking tired of it.

                  "I have to go... There are two gay men knocking on my door asking me if I need any abortions or marijuana. Diary, this may be my last entry" Facebook hysteria after 2012 election

                  by pitbullgirl65 on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:56:54 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Added poll question: Can you deadlift 150lb? nt (0+ / 0-)

                    'If you want to be a hero, well just follow me.' - J. Lennon

                    by Clive all hat no horse Rodeo on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:10:25 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  I could bench 175 lbs. more than once (5+ / 0-)

                    around a year after I had a paralyzing stroke.  I'm a girl.

                    What can I say?  It's the Saxon in me.

                    Any jackass can kick down a barn, but it takes a good carpenter to build one.--Sam Rayburn

                    by Ice Blue on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 07:46:03 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  is that ability (0+ / 0-)

                      not less common among women then it is among men?

                      "Let's do this!" - Leeroy Jenkins

                      by AaronInSanDiego on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 11:17:57 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Due to socialization, yes (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        zett, Ice Blue

                        Due to innate capacity, no.

                        My job as a kid was to haul grain, water, straw, hay, etc. to various locations on a farm. At the age of 10, I was dead-lifting 100 lbs. I'm female. How your body is trained determines your strength. Socially, we tell girls they are supposed to be weak and should not look strong (aka: "butch") Heck, the strongest social message sent to girls is that they shouldn't even eat.

                        •  so would you say that (0+ / 0-)

                          most women have the same innate biological capacity for strength that most men do?

                          "Let's do this!" - Leeroy Jenkins

                          by AaronInSanDiego on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 01:26:50 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Yes. (0+ / 0-)

                            When comparing men and women of similar lean body mass, there is NO difference in muscular capacity:

                            On a muscle-for-muscle basis we found essentially no difference in male and female leg strength. Both genders performed 10 computer-monitored leg extensions with 75 percent of their lean body weight. Other researchers have attained similar results, and no scientist can distinguish between male and female muscle tissue under the microscope, because there is no physiological difference.
                            Pound for pound, muscle does the same work, no matter who it's attached to. There are large and small women, large and small men, and everything in between.

                            The only place there is a gender difference is with men whose size is near the tail of the size bell curve - those men are larger than the largest women, and thus have room for more muscle, which, if strength-trained, can have greater power than a smaller woman OR smaller man.

                            So, absolutely, most women and most men fall within the same size ranges, and have the potential for the same muscle capacity. I know it's hard to wrap your head around, if you've bought the long-standing weak-woman myth - but it's a myth.

                            Here's a great, ,a href="http://mandingueira.com/2008/01/28/myth-busters-women-and-upper-body-strength/">brief synopsis.

                          •  doesn't testosterone play a role (0+ / 0-)

                            in muscle development?

                            I can see what you are saying about muscle being equal pound for pound. But statistically, do men tend to have a higher muscle mass than women?

                            "Let's do this!" - Leeroy Jenkins

                            by AaronInSanDiego on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 09:31:37 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Yes (0+ / 0-)

                            Testosterone leads to a ratio in which there is more lean body mass and less non-lean mass. But if you match lean body mass to lean body mass, the strength is equivalent. While women have a different ratio of lean to non-lean body mass than men, women with a given amount of lean body mass have the same muscle capacity of men with that amount of lean body mass.

                            The testosterone levels in both men and women vary from one individual to another - thus, I am female, but built like a linebacker, while a friend's husband is male, but has very wiry, with little musculature.

                            Once again, the majority of the population of both genders is within the mushy middle of the bell curve for musculature, and the upper tail of the curve for men is where the average gets skewed.

                  •  Sorry , (9+ / 0-)

                    My daughter is both a firefighter and a deputy sheriff. She can lift more than that weight. She still had to go thru both academies. Not all women can, and neither can alot of men make it thru. She didn't get either job because of the color of her skin. She got the job because she was good at it.

                    If you have made it thru all the schooling for an ICU nurse you should not be looked at as anything other then a qualified nurse I don't care what the color of the skin.

                    In the case I made for my daughter. Would this same idiot turn her down for a medical emergency. What would he do  if someone with a different skin color showed up for a house fire, car accident,medical emergency, or a crime against you or your family? It is bullshit that the hospital would take her off this case because of her skin color.  There is no accuse for the  way the hospital handeled

                  •  So What? (4+ / 0-)

                    Any woman who's as physically strong as the men on these physically demanding jobs should be as eligible as the men.

                    However, most women are not. That's why they should be rarer than men: the necessary physical strength is rarer in women.

                    The jobs women did during WWII were not based on physical strength, or else they went only to women with that strength. Women like you. But as you surely realize, far fewer women than men are as strong as you are.

                    That doesn't mean women shouldn't be eligible for these jobs. It only means that when the strength is required, there will be fewer women eligible due to the distribution of that strength among women as compared to among men.

                    You are conflating the two issues of sexism and actual qualifications in exactly the way my post was designed to distinguish between.

                    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

                    by DocGonzo on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 09:20:30 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

              •  Please ask the next 1000 women you meet... (0+ / 0-)

                if they'd prefer one of these jobs, or an office job at the same money.

                I'll wait.

                'If you want to be a hero, well just follow me.' - J. Lennon

                by Clive all hat no horse Rodeo on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:27:19 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Yes, we don't want to hurt our delicate (12+ / 0-)

                  selfs do we?
                  I work with dairy cows sweetie, one of the most dirty and dangerous jobs out there.  (US. Dept. of Labor puts farming in the top ten of dangerous jobs)
                  Getting shit on, pissed on, having a face full of afterbirth after a cow has freshed, getting kick, not too many men can handle it, esp. suburban soccer dads.
                  Don't give me your sexist bullshit.

                  "I have to go... There are two gay men knocking on my door asking me if I need any abortions or marijuana. Diary, this may be my last entry" Facebook hysteria after 2012 election

                  by pitbullgirl65 on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:52:14 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                •  First, please show me the office jobs she (5+ / 0-)

                  can get with the same level of training and the same level of pay and benefits.  If you can do that, there might actually be some point in asking your question.

                  "If you trust you are not critical; if you are critical you do not trust" by our own Dauphin

                  by gustynpip on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:02:16 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                •  Ask the next 1000 MEN (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  SaraBeth, zett

                  and I bet they would ALSO chose a cushy office job for the same money.

                •  I'm nearly 60 years old Clive, (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  shaharazade, zett

                  And in my 20s I was a journeyman carpenter...I built homes and commercial buildings all over the US until the housing boom tanked.

                  That is when I went into health care starting as head carpenter for a maintenance department. Everything else I have done in my career flowed from this....

                  "Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell." ~ Edward Abbey

                  by SaraBeth on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 04:19:14 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                •  If I could get paid to farm (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  shaharazade, zett

                  The same as I was paid for my office job, I'd be all over it. Instead, I'm doing the farm work without pay. You must be a city-dweller. Rural farming women would laugh this line of reasoning out of the room - and deservedly so.

                  •  Not just rural (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    radical simplicity

                    women but female urban gardeners, builders, firefighters the list is endless. I think women throughout history, anywhere would laugh their asses off at the thought that women are delicate flowers who cannot do the physical work. They can and they do in almost every society. There are several women on my block who do hard physical work for a living. One works for Americore as a landscaper she says she get a lot of discrimination and patronization from the males she works with. Another is a firefighter so is her husband she has an easier time passing her physical then he does. Another is a field biologist who works out doors and walks miles daily.      

                    I'm much more physical then my husband. He calls my garden shararazade's gym. He cannot keep up with me when I get him out to help with the phyisical 'manly' jobs.  It strikes me that many people regardless of their gender are not cut out to sit in a freaking cubicle, regardless of the pay. On the other hand, many males of females are not suited to do physical work.  The pay for both males and females for physical labor be it rural or urban is in most cases not good. Jobs no American wants as Bush said. But these days in my community more and more women are doing jobs that are considered men's work.

                    My mom used to say if you don't do well in school you will end up a ditch digger. I gotta say that having worked in a corporate cubicle as a production artist, I may have made good money but I just couldn't hack it both physically or mentally. I'm much happier and well suited at setting tile, rehabing my old house, shoveling manure, compost or rocks and my favorite digging ditches. I'm a great digger my ditches are works of art.

                    When I hire people like plumbers, electricians, painters, plaster's I prefer to hire women. They are easier to deal with as they don't pat me on the head and get all macho and do a better job.    

                             

              •  I don't know many women who want to work... (0+ / 0-)

                ...in those industries...white men running the show or otherwise. Seems non-analogous to me.

                Adequate health care should be a LEGAL RIGHT in the U.S without begging or bankruptcy. Until it is, we should not dare call our society civilized.

                by Love Me Slender on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:30:47 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  How do you know? (10+ / 0-)

                  Not everybody wants to go to college. High paying trade jobs are an excellent way for women to pull themselves out of poor paying pink collar jobs.
                  FWIW, I wanted to learn the building trades, but I couldn't deal with the sexism. Watch North Country sometime.

                  "I have to go... There are two gay men knocking on my door asking me if I need any abortions or marijuana. Diary, this may be my last entry" Facebook hysteria after 2012 election

                  by pitbullgirl65 on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:46:11 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Read my comment again... (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    JoanMar

                    I didn't say no women want to work those jobs. I said I don't know many women who want to work in those industries.

                    How do I know? I know them and you don't.

                    Try to avoid letting your passion inhibit your reason. You read something into my comment that wasn't even close to being there.

                    Adequate health care should be a LEGAL RIGHT in the U.S without begging or bankruptcy. Until it is, we should not dare call our society civilized.

                    by Love Me Slender on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:53:42 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  FYI Re: North Country... (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    elginblt

                    I don't get my perspective from a movie. I get it through hundreds of conversations with women of varying walks of life during the span of three decades. Their views may not match yours, but then again, all women do not think alike...as you well know :)

                    Adequate health care should be a LEGAL RIGHT in the U.S without begging or bankruptcy. Until it is, we should not dare call our society civilized.

                    by Love Me Slender on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 06:01:37 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                •  That's the same bullshit line of crap that was (16+ / 0-)

                  said about women for the armed services, for the legal profession, for the medical profession, for every other profession we've had to fight tooth and nail to break into.  In one sense you're right.  Women still don't give much thought to entering those professions because they have absolutely nor reason to think they'd be able to get a job or be treated even remotely fairly if they did.  Just like it used to be in the legal profession and medical profession.

                  It amazes me how little insight those who have never faced discrimination have about how subtle it so often is - or the subtle effects of the overt discrimination.

                  "If you trust you are not critical; if you are critical you do not trust" by our own Dauphin

                  by gustynpip on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:06:12 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Truth is, it's not desirable work for many... (0+ / 0-)

                    It's not a matter of insight. Women managers in business are booming. They are graduating with greater credentials and fewer roadblocks than ever before. There is still room to evolve...and the women in my orbit don't see working on an oil rig polluting the Earth as a step forward.

                    Adequate health care should be a LEGAL RIGHT in the U.S without begging or bankruptcy. Until it is, we should not dare call our society civilized.

                    by Love Me Slender on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:56:27 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  Women won't make it into (4+ / 0-)

                    some professions if they don't try. Yes there is alot of bias in some jobs against women, but if women fight for it they open the door for other.

                    My daughter is a firefighter in a mountain community. She is the first women they have ever had in over 130 years.. She was referred to  for about 5 years as "the one". Even the police would refer to her as" the one". 5 years later she is now 1 of 3.

                    Yes it is a bitch, but if you have one women that plowed thru, other women will be pulled thru behind her.

          •  Actually - you may have a case, as the rationale (29+ / 0-)

            for assigning you is actually pretty bogus, and in addition puts you at risk beyond that which other staff are placed.

            And if the racist request was allowed to stand, all kinds of "well it was in the best interests of smooth patient care excuses" would be popping up willy-nilly.

            Nip this in the bud.  "Thanks for sharing your views.  We can't do that.  If you can find a hospital that will act on your discriminatory beliefs, we will be happy to effectuate a prompt and safe transfer. Was there anything else we can help you with?"

            •  I'm interested in knowing how conflict with the (4+ / 0-)

              family is at all in the best interest of either the staff or the family.  Given your credentials, you should well know that teaching is a major part of our job.  How is it effective to present a black educator to a family of racists?  Is it in the best interests of the patient for his or her family to be presented with complex topics by a nurse that will be tuned out because the family has loathsome ideals?  And as been pointed out, this is NICU.  The family will be presented with complex education in the care of their very sick child.  Shouldn't a professional that cares about the welfare of the child, and not his or her own social sensibilities, want that child to be cared for by the most informed parents possible?  

              Or is it just more satisfying to be able to tell a racist to sit down and shut up?

              I'm living in an age that calls darkness light.

              by electricgrendel on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 03:15:00 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Yep. (22+ / 0-)

                Yep.  They should sit down and shut up, because medical services should be delivered entirely without consideration of race, sex, sexual orientation, religion, or marital status.  Period.  If they don't like that, they can always take their child to another country where racism is legal.

                "Everybody wants to go to Heaven but nobody wants to die" --- Albert King

                by HarpboyAK on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 03:32:04 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  At least you're honest about the fact that you (3+ / 1-)

                  are completely lacking in compassion and make your decisions in this matter from a desire to hurt someone.

                  As I have said previously, I started out to play devil's advocate and really just pulled a lot of snarling viciousness out of people.  It's kind of shocking of people don't seem to care about anything but making the dad confront his racism.

                  I'm living in an age that calls darkness light.

                  by electricgrendel on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 03:42:49 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Your concern is duly noted (13+ / 0-)
                    It's kind of shocking of people don't seem to care about anything but making the dad confront his racism.
                    Unbelievable. You are a concern troll sir.

                    "I have to go... There are two gay men knocking on my door asking me if I need any abortions or marijuana. Diary, this may be my last entry" Facebook hysteria after 2012 election

                    by pitbullgirl65 on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 03:49:02 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  Concern for the Bigot (17+ / 0-)

                    When people are discriminated against on their race, it harms them. People who harm others on the basis of race should sit down and shut up.

                    That might or might not have compassion towards the bigot - but it certainly has more compassion towards the people the bigot abuses.

                    You are the one lacking that compassion.

                    For bonus points, sitting down and shutting up a bigot doesn't come from a desire to hurt them - but rather to protect their victims. Shutting up bigots isn't cruel. You'r'e just making that part up. Because you're more compassionate to bigots than to their victims.

                    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

                    by DocGonzo on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:10:18 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  So tell me (6+ / 0-)

                      If I have a racist patient assigned to me on the floor, am I supposed to turn on my heels and say "sorry, I'm not going to follow these orders, cuz he's a RACIST"?

                      Yes, part of being a nurse means you have to care for EVERYONE who comes in through those doors, and you treat them no differently than anyone else. You ALWAYS provide the best standard of care possible. And in the case of a child in the NICU, the best standard of care is one where both parents are involved in Kangaroo care, and bonding with their infant, and there is as little conflict as possible.  

                      I'm amazed by the number of people here with NO experience in the field dictating to us how to do our damn jobs. And calling us RACISTS for following our professional ethics. Unbelievable.

                      You must work-we must all work-to make a world that is worthy of its children -Pablo Casals Please support TREE Climbers for victims of child sexual abuse and exploitation.

                      by SwedishJewfish on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:28:05 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  If the nurse had requested (8+ / 0-)

                        a changed assignment, we wouldn't be having this discussion, would we?  What does it have to do with anything?

                        •  I was responding to the comment above (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          Munchkn

                          re: "caring for the bigot"

                          Yes, "caring for the bigot" is unfortunately part of the job sometimes. So is getting bodily fluids thrown on you, physically assaulted, sexually harassed, groped, threatened, called vile names, etc.

                          Point being, it's not an easy profession, and it requires growing a thick skin. Because all of humanity walks through those doors, and it aint always pretty. But you provide them good, competent, yes even compassionate care, because that's what nurses do.

                          You must work-we must all work-to make a world that is worthy of its children -Pablo Casals Please support TREE Climbers for victims of child sexual abuse and exploitation.

                          by SwedishJewfish on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:51:41 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  The comment to which you responded (5+ / 0-)

                            "Concern for the bigot" (not "Caring for the bigot") was in response to a comment saying we were all being big meanies in not caring about the feelings of the bigoted father in this case.

                            It was not claiming that such [redacted]heads shouldn't get proper medical care.

                          •  sigh, OK (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            EAColeInEmporia, Dogs are fuzzy

                            I'm really done with this thread, but I want to try and explain this one more time....

                            This is a unique case, because it involves a baby in the NICU. Nursing measures are guided by best practices. One of the best practices for Neonatal ICU care is something called Family Centered Care. It helps the parents learn to care for a medically fragile child once they get home, and promotes kangaroo care, skin to skin contact, breastfeeding, and early bonding with the parents.

                            Hurley Medical Center, where this happened, uses this approach:

                            http://www.hurleymc.com/...

                            Patient- and Family-Centered Care

                            Throughout Hurley Medical Center, one of our guiding principles is Patient- and Family-Centered Care. In Hurley’s Level III NICU, this means that parents are involved in all aspects of their baby’s care, even when the baby is not doing well. We encourage parents to watch and sometimes participate in the procedures we’re performing on their baby so that they stay closely involved in everything we do, including decisions about the baby’s treatment.

                            (Side note-they are also the only level III NICU in the area, something to consider for those who suggest just transporting him to another facility.)

                            That's the bottom line. Parents are involved in the care of a child who is in the NICU. This is not just the policy of the hospital, it is a goo thing overall-for the baby. Because there have been numerous studies done on this (just google family centered care NICU and you will find them) that prove, definitively, that using this approach produces the best outcomes for these children, on every level.

                            Being a racist asshole is not a crime. It is not grounds for having your child removed. This baby was going to go home to his father and mother, and he's got a tough road ahead of him, especially with a dad like that. So the responsibility of the nurse is to work with the family as best she can, help them bond with the baby, and care for him once he goes home. Her responsibility is to give that child the best care possible, so that he can at least have a chance.

                            You must work-we must all work-to make a world that is worthy of its children -Pablo Casals Please support TREE Climbers for victims of child sexual abuse and exploitation.

                            by SwedishJewfish on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 07:14:48 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Racist Crimes (3+ / 0-)

                            Nobody said the parents' racist assholery was a crime. It was merely not an acceptable basis for denying the Black nurse their job caring for the baby.

                            What was probably a crime was the hospital's racist assholery backing them up. Which is what this diary is about.

                            You're just making stuff up. If you can't even argue about the actual subject, why should anyone read the long screed you post when you passive-aggressively threaten to leave the thread?

                            "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

                            by DocGonzo on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 09:15:47 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  But Not Indulging The Bigot (8+ / 0-)

                            The bigot should have been firmly informed in a business like way, that hospitals policy would not allow the decision of which nurse had floor duty to be made based on skin color.  If he had an issue with legal hospital policy, the hospital would help him located the nearest alternative and might actually help with the transportation.

                            This decision by the hospital was irresponsible in so many ways.

                            Newt 2012. Sociopath, adulterer, hypocrite, Republican.

                            by tikkun on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 06:58:13 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Read the post I just made above (0+ / 0-)

                            In reply to radical simplicity, and then see if you might reconsider your thinking.

                            If not, I don't really know what else to say.

                            You must work-we must all work-to make a world that is worthy of its children -Pablo Casals Please support TREE Climbers for victims of child sexual abuse and exploitation.

                            by SwedishJewfish on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 07:16:46 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Reconsider?! Are you kidding me, SJF? (5+ / 0-)

                            Maya Angelou: "Without courage, we cannot practice any other virtue with consistency. We can't be kind, true, merciful, generous, or honest."

                            by JoanMar on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 07:19:02 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  No, Joan (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            elginblt, Dogs are fuzzy, aseth

                            Not at all....and I'm bewildered, TBH, because we almost always see eye to eye on this stuff.

                            I'm looking at this from the perspective of a nurse. A nurse in the only Level III NICU in the area. Transporting a medically fragile child is risky to begin with. And where would he be transferred? To a facility that is less equipped, to a whole new set of doctors and nurses? That is dangerous. The child could die in the process. And I don't care a whit if it's some racist assholes child-he's just a baby, he didn't ask to be born into this crap!

                            The other aspect of this-This NICU follows best practices. That means family is involved with care. This is for the benefit of the baby-his chances of survival are greatly improved, he is able to form attachments...the parents need to learn how to care for him when he comes home. All of this requires teaching, very close one-on-one interactions with the nurse who is assigned to your child.

                            If the father of this child refused, despite all efforts to reason with him, to have a black nurse-as disheartening and awful as that is, what are the alternatives? You have to think in terms of the best outcome for the patient. The best outcome is likely going to be from reassigning a different nurse  and avoiding that conflict if possible. Because you NEED the cooperation of the parents to care for that child. It is vital.

                            I feel awful for this nurse. I know what it is like to be rejected by a patient-but on the basis of race, I can only imagine. But in nursing, your feelings always have to be put on the backburner when it comes to ensuring a patient-especially one this fragile-receives the care they need.

                            I realize you may disagree with me-but can you at least understand where I'm coming from? I'm not siding with the bigots-I'm siding with the child.

                            You must work-we must all work-to make a world that is worthy of its children -Pablo Casals Please support TREE Climbers for victims of child sexual abuse and exploitation.

                            by SwedishJewfish on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 08:07:51 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I always know that you are coming from a pure (9+ / 0-)

                            place, SJF. Don't worry about that. Friends can disagree and we disagree here.
                            The baby was never going to be denied care. And yes, the family has to be intimately involved in any decision about the baby's care. But this was the policy...policy? WTF. This is 20 frigging 13! This is not only about that one nurse. This is about every single person of color working in that hospital.
                            How do you think they felt on learning about this bigot's request?
                            So we have a conflict between the patient's rights and human rights. The patient has a right to choose where he wants to be treated. Having chosen that hospital, he doesn't have a right to demand a change of policy. That word again.

                            Maya Angelou: "Without courage, we cannot practice any other virtue with consistency. We can't be kind, true, merciful, generous, or honest."

                            by JoanMar on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 08:38:30 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  It was not policy, from what I understood.... (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            AaronInSanDiego, zett

                            She was first re-assigned to another child by her charge nurse (under the advisement of the nursing manager) She then made a complaint and had a meeting with the director of nursing and the director of women and children's services. They ultimately made the decision to grant the fathers request and at a staff meeting, the nursing manager let staff know that, with this particular baby, no black nurses were to care for him.

                            I have a feeling this was probably the first time they had ever dealt with such a request. It's something you see a lot in long term care, but for the NICU it would be very unusual. Especially in Flint, which is around 80% AA. They are a fairly large NICU, so they likely had enough staff to accommodate the request. No he would never have been denied care-but he could have demanded a transfer, and they are the best equipped NICU in the area. In nursing you always prepare for the worst case scenario, and I'm sure that's what they had on their mind when they made that decision. I don't think it was an easy one.

                            That said, reading the lawsuit, I'm more swayed than I was initially. I think she may have standing.

                            I can only imagine how the other black nurses felt. I posted downthread (don't know if you saw it) about how this played out in my nursing school, which was predominantly POC. There were a lot of tears, a lot of anger. One of my classmates (the one who got called a n**r") I remember what she said because it stuck with me-"Every day I get up and I take care of mine, and I go to college like I'm supposed to, and I'm a good person, but I come here and I'm just another n**r" I still tear up when I think about it. So yeah, no doubt that hurt ran deep. And these are women at the top of their profession. They didn't deserve that.

                            You must work-we must all work-to make a world that is worthy of its children -Pablo Casals Please support TREE Climbers for victims of child sexual abuse and exploitation.

                            by SwedishJewfish on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 09:33:22 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You also used the word "policy" but I am (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            SwedishJewfish, shaharazade, poco

                            not sure we are talking about the same thing.
                            There are laws against discrimination in the work place. The parents should have known that it would be highly unlikely that they'd get an all white hospital staff.

                            Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (Title VII), which prohibits employment discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, or national origin;
                            We'll take the baby's care out of the equation because the baby was never in danger of not receiving adequate care.
                            This was an unreasonable and racist request and the hospital should have handled it as such.

                            Maya Angelou: "Without courage, we cannot practice any other virtue with consistency. We can't be kind, true, merciful, generous, or honest."

                            by JoanMar on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 05:24:57 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Yup, I get it now :) (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            zett, poco, JoanMar

                            Here was the problem in my thinking....

                            The option of removing the dad as soon as he made that request wasn't one I considered possible. Generally hospitals are extremely accommodating to parents, and they need to do something completely over the top and disruptive to be removed. And doing something disruptive and over the top in a NICU could have serious adverse effects for ANY of the babies in there.

                            But after discussing this on my nursing forum, a few NICU nurses weighed in. And apparently the rules are much stricter, and he could have been banned based on his request and the showing of the tattoo alone. I didn't know that, now I do. Fuck me, yes I was wrong. 40 lashes with a wet noodle for me. They should have quietly, forcefully gotten him removed him from the ward right from the get go.

                            You must work-we must all work-to make a world that is worthy of its children -Pablo Casals Please support TREE Climbers for victims of child sexual abuse and exploitation.

                            by SwedishJewfish on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 09:11:48 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You're showing extremely poor judgement (4+ / 0-)

                            because you're willing to honor an irrational request from an avowed racist and you've completely ignored any of the consequences .  For example you're assuming that the reassignment has no consequences - rearranging assignments will probably result in at least one nurse being pulled off of another case - what about the rights  of the  child in that case ? Why does that child get to start over with a new nurse just because you want to honor an irrational request from a racist . Better yet what if you end up with multiple  conflicting irrational requests that made it impossible to honor all of them at the same time ? Which child are you going to pick to "be on the side of"  then ?  It's a slippery slope  when you acquiesce to irrational demands from avowed racists and nothing good can result from it - a perfect example of the  danger that Dr King attributed  to  "sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity". The right thing to do in cases like this is to tell the racist  to take a hike - if he or she  really would jeopardize the life of his or her  child (which I doubt would happen) to make a racist point then it's better to find out now and get the child out of their custody before they  can do any more damage.  It's easy to say that you side with the child when you use a prism that is focused solely on one child but the reality is that there is  always a bigger picture that invariably involves many more children.   That you're ignored this bigger picture demonstrates very poor judgement on your part.

                          •  There is a lot of truth to this (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            poco, JoanMar

                            I tend to get tunnel vision when it comes to kids. I also tend to get a bit irrational when arguing about children, and potential harm being done to them. It makes it hard to see the larger picture and I admit it often clouds my judgment.

                            Thank you for spelling it out like that.

                            You must work-we must all work-to make a world that is worthy of its children -Pablo Casals Please support TREE Climbers for victims of child sexual abuse and exploitation.

                            by SwedishJewfish on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 10:37:08 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                      •  This issue goes well beyond... (11+ / 0-)

                        ...the issue of a nurse caring for a patient and family.

                        As I said upthread, I can understand the charge nurse's initial decision (though I think it was a poor one). But that decision should not have been sustained.

                        The ethics of nursing care are not so simple.

                        "FK the deficit. People got no jobs. People got no money." Charlie Pierce

                        by RubDMC on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:37:05 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  No (4+ / 0-)

                        That's a different question. The baby is the patient - the baby is not a racist.

                        I have lots of experience in the hospital field, having worked in a big one full time over a couple of years.

                        I'm hardly amazed at you deciding these facts for yourself that are wrong, when you don't know that when a racist makes racist demands even in a hospital, the hospital management handles it. Because even a nurse's rights to equal treatment in their job are more important than a racist's demands to get a hospital to help them exercise their racism.

                        Let's say the parents are crazy in a somewhat different way: they insist they must wear their hoods and robes in the NICU. The hospital would tell them they can't do so. What's the difference here? Except that accepting the racism is more convenient when there aren't any hoods and robes involved. Doesn't make any of the actual issues any different.

                        When you help racists practice racism, you're a racist. When you stand with the racists instead of with their victims, you'r'e a racist.

                        You might wish that being a nurse puts you above such issues, like some kind of a saint. It doesn't.

                        "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

                        by DocGonzo on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 09:12:34 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                  •  No compassion for racism (11+ / 0-)

                    The racist is not suffering, thus there is nothing to feel compassionate about.  

                    The racist is the one inflicting suffering on others, and deserves not one whit of consideration.

                •  Put it this way: do you want to be the black nurse (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  grollen, SwedishJewfish

                  that is not reassigned after a family expressly requests it in care for their needy infant?

                  I wouldn't.

                  There are times when fighting the good fight is a good idea and times when that's just not the case.

                  -9.63, 0.00
                  "Liberty" is deaf, dumb, and useless without life itself.

                  by nobody at all on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:54:42 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Guess we all know the answer to this (13+ / 0-)

                    question since the nurse who was reassigned against her will is the one taking legal action for it.  So we can say  - yes, she would have wanted to be that person.  Fighting racism, sexism, etc. has never been a pleasant task.  Every single person who has broken any barrier had to deal with being the person who no one else wanted there.  The only other option is to give up and let all the future generations be shut out as well.  

                    "If you trust you are not critical; if you are critical you do not trust" by our own Dauphin

                    by gustynpip on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:10:23 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I have personally been (7+ / 0-)

                      beaten to a pulp because of race, held up at gunpoint because of race, and discriminated against because of race. I grew up as a mixed-race kid in Utah, and it wasn't easy.

                      And sure, this nurse is doing what this nurse is doing.

                      But if I were the nurse caring for a kid in the NICU and someone didn't want me there and there was another option, I'd take my body somewhere else, in the interest of the kid's care.

                      I don't care at all about the racist parents; they're trapped in a society in which they are totally anachronistic and will never go far. But a kid in the NICU needs every chance at stability and positive vibes that he/she can get, and that can't happen if people are busy fighting about race all around you.

                      -9.63, 0.00
                      "Liberty" is deaf, dumb, and useless without life itself.

                      by nobody at all on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:14:30 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Amen.... (4+ / 0-)

                        I fight for racial equality, peace and social justice every day. On my own time.

                        At work, my sole responsibility is to care for my patients. Period.

                        You must work-we must all work-to make a world that is worthy of its children -Pablo Casals Please support TREE Climbers for victims of child sexual abuse and exploitation.

                        by SwedishJewfish on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:56:48 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Would a black nurse not have to worry (3+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          Sychotic1, shaharazade, schnecke21

                          that they would soon be denied a job if enough patients excluded them.  How long would a hospital keep hiring black nurses on if their value is so diminished due to their race?

                          Wouldn't hospitals now look at race when hiring to make the best use of nurses.

                          Would you object if patients could request that no nurses over the age of forty or who looked over forty, regardless of age care for their child?

                          Great for you Swede, you would always know you would have patients assigned.

                          This has been settled by the civil rights amendment.

                          •  Oh please (0+ / 0-)
                            Great for you Swede, you would always know you would have patients assigned.
                            You think I've never been reassigned? LOL!

                            Speaking of which, you do not seem to have any concept of what it means to be "reassigned" in the first place. It is something that happens frequently, daily, and it's usually for reasons other than race...some patients are not compatible with certain nurses-so you switch out patients with another nurse who IS compatible, and take over his or her patient. I've had black patients say they feel more comfortable with a black nurse, and if one of the black nurses can switch patients with me, we do it. Some patients don't feel comfortable with male nurses, and some with women. Sometimes it's cultural (Muslim patients have very strong beliefs around gender preferences) sometimes it's a woman with a history of sexual trauma, sometimes it's just plain gender modesty. Sometimes patients are psychotic and think that you are trying to kill them, or working for the government, etc. and they are completely non-compliant with you.

                             Nurses work as a team on a unit, and accommodate these requests if they seem reasonable (or if their is another compelling reason-like psychosis) and it's possible with the staff on hand. Nobody wants to have a patient who feels uncomfortable with them, and in some cases one who might actually put them in danger.

                            But no, if you have a patient who is just a bigoted a**hole and refuses to be treated by a black nurse, then those types of requests are generally not tolerated. As an adult patient, they have the autonomy to make their own choices, and if they don't want a black nurse they are free to leave AMA. If you have one who makes any absurd, specious request like the ones you used as examples, they get the same response. Which is why the scenario you describe above would never actually happen.

                            I was conflicted in this particular case because it was a situation that involved significant risk to the life of a medically fragile infant, as well as others. People have stated they do not believe this was accurate, and they may be right-but that's how I saw it, and I wasn't alone in that either. Read through all of the other comments from nurses who had the same concerns.

                            Bottom line-this is a complicated situation with a lot of ethical considerations, and really not as simple as you seem to think.

                            You must work-we must all work-to make a world that is worthy of its children -Pablo Casals Please support TREE Climbers for victims of child sexual abuse and exploitation.

                            by SwedishJewfish on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 07:54:45 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Have you ever been (0+ / 0-)

                            reassigned to the point where you had no patients?

                          •  By God, I wish! (0+ / 0-)

                            No, by it's very definition, being "reassigned" means you get a new patient.

                            There are many gripes in the nursing profession, but not having enough patients to care for is not one of them. Thanks to under-staffing, it's usually quite the opposite.

                            You must work-we must all work-to make a world that is worthy of its children -Pablo Casals Please support TREE Climbers for victims of child sexual abuse and exploitation.

                            by SwedishJewfish on Tue Feb 19, 2013 at 07:28:16 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

              •  So E-G .... a personal story - straight out of the (15+ / 0-)

                South....

                One side of my family is from what I refer to as "red-dirt" country in South Carolina.  Given my age, I got to watch them from the earliest days of integration up through the present.  For many of them the "n" word flowed off their tongues as easily as "pass the biscuits, please."

                With that background ... one of my cousin's children came down with a VERY severe disease (was now over twenty years ago, so can't remember if it was leukemia or a cardiac condition) when still a very young child.  And it was a Black physician that took care of her.  And I can remember my cousin describing him ("black as coal") ... and then going on to talk about how at first he wasn't real happy with a Black physician, etc., etc., but through the care that physician gave to his daughter, he had to start thinking about race and prejudice differently.

                Now, I don't see him that often, and I don't know how far along the path of racial enlightenment he has come, but I do know that having that experience with that doctor made a real difference in how he perceived other African-Americans going forward.

                You seem to take the father with racist views as an absolute - something that must be worked around, rather than somebody that perhaps could be worked with, or even passively be shown - like my cousin was - the error of his prejudgment.

                And this is my last comment re this subject, because I think that you and I have very different takes on what the ultimate "right" thing to do is in this situation.

                •  One of the peds recommended for our premie (0+ / 0-)

                  is black, although we did not know it at the time.  It turns out that we would have been much better off going to Dr Whittenburg for her discharge care. He just seemed to be more careful.  We only picked the practice we did because it was closer.  We did choose Whit to be our pediatrician the next time around.

              •  Benefit to the Bigot (12+ / 0-)

                How does it benefit a bigot to make them learn from a Black teacher? Obviously it confronts their bigotry with reality: the Black teacher will probably be just as qualified as a White teacher, and the bigot will find it harder to pretend otherwise.

                Especially for a student, showing them reality without catering to their bigotry is a way to lead them out of that bigotry. Most bigotry depends on ignorance, and showing a good example is the best way to end it.

                "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

                by DocGonzo on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:07:38 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  When does supporting... (6+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                tikkun, Debby, cpresley, burlydee, zett, shaharazade

                ...become enabling?

                While I appreciate your points thus far, in that they appear to be grounded in the idea of meeting the needs of the patient and family - no matter how reprehensible - that view is very limited in the context of the broader situation.

                In other words - acting in the moment, I can understand the charge nurse's initial decision to reassign the nurse based on the family's request. It's not a very good decision, but I don't expect a charge nurse to be able to satisfactorily address something that is so far out of the normal bounds of what he or she might normally expect.

                But I don't think there is any excuse for that initial action to have been sustained. This issue goes well beyond the basic patient care concepts you've raised.

                "FK the deficit. People got no jobs. People got no money." Charlie Pierce

                by RubDMC on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:32:55 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  Fierce advocate for racists. (0+ / 0-)

                Maya Angelou: "Without courage, we cannot practice any other virtue with consistency. We can't be kind, true, merciful, generous, or honest."

                by JoanMar on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 07:16:49 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  The best qualified person was on duty (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                IT Professional, schnecke21

                That being why she was on duty.

                The hospital's responsibility is to provide the best qualified caregiver or educator. The parents's responsibility is to listen. It's nobody's responsibility to make life more comfortable for bigots, and if it were, the answer would be to have the educator explain his or her credentials.

                Freedom isn't free. Patriots pay taxes.

                by Dogs are fuzzy on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 09:47:31 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

            •  You're Seriously Suggesting... (8+ / 0-)

              ....moving a fragile newborn out of NICU?

              The most important person in this story is the baby.  Not the nurse, not the racist parents, not the hospital administrators.

          •  Sounds like you may be needed in 'neonatal' care (9+ / 0-)

            and, it should be obvious, that babies (and perhaps fellow RNs and doctors) deserve the biggest, most protective qualified medical staff person there.  

            I agree the hospital made a truly horrific mistake, deserves a very hot spotlight for enabling racism with complicity across levels of management, and should immediately work very hard and visibly to correct for this at every level of management, especially in affirming the qualifications and willingness to stand by, behind and protect their professional staff of ethnic minority status from ignorant intolerant racist interference, and in ensuring management in the future will never again tolerate this type of indulgence in racist behavior and threat to human equality.

            The hospital should ensure their security staff should be attuned to watch for this sort of incident in the future, and be ready to escort such 'concerned' parents triggering racial incidents into a closed room for immediate education, and perhaps a civics and legal lecture on the rights of their fellow Americans to work in a harassment free environment, with dignity, respect and without discrimination. Set up a free speech zone 3 blocks from the hospital, under police supervision, if they want to carry a sign and protest. That's the only way to 'tolerate' bigotry and ignorance without violating the 'do no harm' oaths of medical professionals and mission to serve the public with staff treated equally as the professionals they are.

            Our Civil Rights Commission (federal and if there is a state version) ought to be landing on this hospital over this incident like a herd of parachuting elephants. Equal protection under the law isn't optional for racist managers or to be evaded by the entire ranks of hospital management.  Does this incident not merit the immediate attention of President Obama? Fly in, perhaps with a 3 iron and Tiger Woods in tow, but especially bring in the most qualified medical black professionals and stand in public solidarity at the side of the black RNs.

            This is another example of where the 'battle for the Confederacy' is being re-fought, in the back office hallways and inner offices of employers allegedly serving the public, inside workplaces allowed a bit too much shielding from transparency, undermining the social networking and culture in small groups of 'concerned' neighbors, dismissing minority concerns in conversations by the water coolers and in lunchrooms of small and large business and rounds of emails. Especially in those workplaces where one's employment status is at-will, at-whim of management--a management anxious to please whomever complains of the white race, and where 'right-to-work' means management's right to reassign or fire your ass for any damn reason we want and give you no true explanation for it, especially if ignorant prejudice and intolerant racism is involved.  We are all Americans, a Union under one Constitution and Rule of Law, with states subject to federal regulation as needed to ensure and protect all our rights as US and state citizens.

            Clearly, racists haven't suffered enough in having to endure a black president 'not be their president' and the growing, horrendous fear of some coming Obama UN Apocalypse that will forcibly take-away their precious freedom-insuring, anti-black tyrants, white-race preserving guns. They also are being forced to tolerate and suffer the ignominy of enduring highly trained and educated black people daring to presume to touch their babies, as if their social equals (or better), in their own Rebel-loving states. Black people without restriction are being enabled to provide health care services to anyone admitted for care and presenting their need.  Black professional people like them might be giving their precious white babies a positive, normal experience of tolerant, caring interracial human contact, or worse, lay the subconscious foundations for their easily influenced child becoming a future Democrat or liberal--someone who might actually tolerate or have an interest in sticking up for 'those people' whom their parents do not approve of and fear.  

            Concealed carry laws...sure seem to be making dealing with this growing virulent racism a risk. (Ok RKBA, guns don't always kill people, but we can't be blind that crazy armed racists just may be more inclined to do so.)  Now perhaps it'd be an interesting public relations move for NRA, local law enforcement and the hospital to combine to offer to provide all their RNs concealed carry guns, training, ammo, if they have reason to believe they may be threatened by idiotic menacing parents. Surely surgical steel grade weapons or synthetic material based guns, that can be kept sterilized, clean and bio-hazard free, ready until needed when deadly threats emerge, shouldn't be a problem for our creative arms manufacturers.

            If anything is 'healthy' about a hospital serving the public, it ought to be that they have moral integrity at their core to reflect the entire community in which they operate, profit and serve, demonstrate with firm resolve, the courage of their convictions to serve the public without weak servile apology, without rewarding or providing accommodation to the worst in others, showing pride in all the well-qualified staff they have, a workforce reflecting the diversity of ethnicity of their surrounding community.

            Insurance companies should be required (do we need an ACA update or presidential executive order for this?) to deny claims when parents refuse service for any racist non-medical reason, or else be subject to state and federal penalties.  Hospitals getting state or federal funds, or benefiting from tax-exempt funding, or charitable donations providing donors with tax breaks, cannot be allowed to get away with this sort of thing without suffering penalties, costs and future longterm monitoring.  This sort of stated racism needs to be classified as 'assault' legally and then prosecuted publicly, unless a rapid generous settlement with public apology is offered by a defense attorney.

            If a market based incentive approach might be wanted, perhaps people demanding 'whites only' medical staff should be charged treble the full costs of the entire hospital stay, and have to pay it all on their own, and expect no other insurance or financial help from public sources or churches. Such excess funds upon collection would be earmarked to provide medical profession scholarships for minorities and improve civics training and racial equality lessons in public (and private schools getting any other public monies) of course.

            When life gives you wingnuts, make wingnut butter!

            by antirove on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 03:41:30 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I think Nurse Battle can handle this herself (0+ / 0-)
              Does this incident not merit the immediate attention of President Obama? Fly in, perhaps with a 3 iron and Tiger Woods in tow, but especially bring in the most qualified medical black professionals and stand in public solidarity at the side of the black RNs.
              She already got herself a lawyer and is suing the hospital. No need for the President to swoop in -- that's what lawsuits are for.

              261.A wealthy man can afford anything except a conscience. -Ferengi Rules of Acquisition

              by MaikeH on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 11:14:49 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Wait, you want guns in hospitals??? (0+ / 0-)
              to provide all their RNs concealed carry guns, training, ammo, if they have reason to believe they may be threatened by idiotic menacing parents
              Are you crazy?
          •  You are so far off base. To assign (19+ / 0-)

            you to cases because you appear to be physically strong enough is not the same as to not assign someone because of the amount of melanin in their skin.
            Your views are very interesting, to say the least.

            Maya Angelou: "Without courage, we cannot practice any other virtue with consistency. We can't be kind, true, merciful, generous, or honest."

            by JoanMar on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 03:47:49 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  That's Not Bigotry (13+ / 0-)

            You're not  being assigned to patients on an arbitrary criterion like the color of your skin. You're being assigned on an essential criterion: you're physically capable of the job.

            Being physically large and strong is not a "protected attribute".

            You should shut up about "OMG... self-righteous anger". You are defending bigotry, while equating with bigotry what is not it at all.

            "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

            by DocGonzo on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:04:01 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  There's a clinical rationale for your assignments, (6+ / 0-)

            but no clinical reason for not assigning a qualified nurse to a baby's care.  The baby's father being a racist asshole has no relevance to the medical care of the baby; and the father was free to transfer the baby to a hospital that would accede to his request if this hospital denied it.

            Incidentally, assignment by size was a tacit rule in all the psychiatric and medical hospitals I worked in -- e.g.   it's not like anyone wanted short endomorphs on the crisis team that was called to "intervene" when somebody got out of control and dangerous or working as a aide on a unit for acute, floridly psychotic schizophrenics and manics.  

          •  I used to be assigned all the (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ladybug53

            Jewish and gay patients on my home floor at Cedars-Sinai  back in the 80's because the Phillipinas that were charge nurses didn't like dealing with them and I didn't have any problems. In our case it worked out well, the patients were happy to have someone who spoke English well and was respectful, and I heard lots of good stories.

            OTOH, that was almost 30 years ago, it really should be better by now, even out in the boonies.

            And, in your case, more to the point, 6'6" and male are neither of them protected classes. ;-)

            Good to hear you finished school, grendel.  :-)

            Information is abundant, wisdom is scarce. ~The Druid.
            ~Ideals aren't goals, they're navigation aids.~

            by FarWestGirl on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:40:08 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  How did they feel about the (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              FarWestGirl

              Jewish and gay doctors?

              Both my mother's parents were patients there in their later years and had great Filpina nurses, as I recall, but that was within the last couple decades.

              "Let's do this!" - Leeroy Jenkins

              by AaronInSanDiego on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 11:54:15 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  lol Like they were outranked and had to be (0+ / 0-)

                careful. All their sniping was done in Tagalog.

                The different floors and 'wards' had different characters, it depended on the tone set by senior staff. And they weren't bad nurses, they just had preferences and the authority to make assignments. People are people, some abuse their authority regardless of their heritage and others are absolutely straight-arrow fair.

                Information is abundant, wisdom is scarce. ~The Druid.
                ~Ideals aren't goals, they're navigation aids.~

                by FarWestGirl on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 05:09:29 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

          •  There's no complexity here (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            IT Professional

            Unless you're a Nazi apologist. Hospitals have no legal obligation to rearrange their work schedules to accommodate demands based solely on racism , period. It's illegal.  By your logic  if Adolf junior had complained that there is an AA baby in the NICU and requested that the baby be thrown out - the hospital would have to think "long and hard" about it .It's one thing to defend everyone's right to free speech but to expect the world to rearrange their organizations to accommodate the racist wishes of avowed Nazis goes beyond defending free speech and into the realm of being a Nazi apologist.

      •  NICU is Neonatal ICU - this is a new born patient, (31+ / 0-)

        not pediatric.  NICU nurses have one patient at a time, 2 if it's really busy.  This nurse has been caring for this infant since it was admitted.  She knows what's going on with the patient.  To have someone else come in 'later' has the potential to compromise the health of the patient.

        •  Yes. As a nurse, I am aware of what NICU is (7+ / 0-)

          and the general staffing of it.

          Transferring care between two nurses for such a complicated case would not be ideal, but since the nurse receiving the child's care would also be a NICU nurse I imagine that transfer could be done without issue.  These NICU nurses have to give report at the change of every shift; despite being phenomenal nurses, even NICU nurses have to sleep.  So she hands this baby off every 8, 10 or 12 hours, anyway.  I also imagine she doesn't work seven days a week.  So if they work 5x8's or 4x10's, then two nurses a week are caring for the child on each shift; if they work 3x12's, then it's three nurses on days each week and three nurses on nights.  Somehow with any of those configurations, there is a continuity of care for all NICU patients.  Rotating this particular nurse out, and another one in could be handled.

          Other than forcing a racist to deal with someone he doesn't want to deal with (either to spite him, or more charitably to hope that he has some realization that his values are stupid), there seems to be very little reason why this family's ridiculous request could not be accommodated.

          I'm living in an age that calls darkness light.

          by electricgrendel on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 02:28:57 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  How about an ambulance transfer to (46+ / 0-)

            a whites only hospital?  Seriously, your defense of the racism here is more maddening than the original story.  

            I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

            by I love OCD on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 02:32:39 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Yeah .... see my comments above to e-grendel (12+ / 0-)

              This is racism pure and simple and you don't tolerate it.

            •  I'm not defending the racism. (9+ / 0-)

              If you would bother to notice, I have pointed out several times that the family's request is loathsome.  What I am defending is the right of the family to choose the staff that cares for their child.  And I am drawing parallels to other staffing choices that are regularly made to accommodate patient preferences.

              What is maddening is the utter lack of sympathy, and the snarling desire to inflict conflict on a family with a very sick child.

              It's easy to hate your enemies.  It's a lot harder to be compassionate for them in their hour of need.  A lot of this community is taking the very easy road on this issue.

              I'm living in an age that calls darkness light.

              by electricgrendel on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 02:50:21 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Now race is a (20+ / 0-)

                "staffing problem'? Why have any black nurses or doctors at all in order to accomodate racists?
                I contend the family does not have the right to pick which nurses or doctors. If they don't like it, then they can take their baby home.
                I cannot believe your comments!

                What is maddening is the utter lack of sympathy, and the snarling desire to inflict conflict on a family with a very sick child.

                Did you really type that????

                The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. - Elbert Hubbard -9.62/-8.15

                by GustavMahler on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 03:25:43 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  With all due respect (11+ / 0-)

                  it happens all the time.  More than once I've been asked to step aside because a patient didn't want a minority (I'm Latina) providing care.  The rationale given was that since the person is a paying customer/patient his or her wishes came first.  I feel terrible that the color of my skin gets in the way of giving care but what can I do?

                  Funny thing, once a patient with that kind of mindset gets to know me they change their mind.  Go figure.

                •  Wow. I cannot believe you actually think that a (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  ladybug53, ekyprogressive

                  baby sick enough to end up in NICU should be hauled out of the hospital to probably die instead of entertaining the notion of reshuffling staff.  That's absolutely ridiculous, or perhaps you don't know how critical babies in NICU actually are?

                  Also, why don't you spend some time with Google?  If you did, you could easily find out that this matter is already settled and that you cannot choose your provider based on race.  But I guess it's just easier to be offended than to find out what the facts of the world are.

                  I find it interesting that there is a tension between civil rights, and the ideals of patient care.  I suppose this is something left to discussion with other healthcare providers, since it appears most people are ignorant of the fact that people can and do choose their nurses and doctors in hospitals.  I had hoped there would be some sort of interesting conversation, but it appears dKos is only a place to discuss comfortable, amen chorus topics.

                  I'm living in an age that calls darkness light.

                  by electricgrendel on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:30:23 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Do you not get the irony of (9+ / 0-)

                    suggesting he find a hospital for whites only?  Clearly not.

                     I sorta get the NICU thing, the father clearly doesn't.  Can't see him as terribly concerned if he has time and energy to waste on ensuring racial purity in caregivers.

                     Funny that you judge my emotional responses to this story and excuse his emotional responses to having a black nurse.  

                    I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

                    by I love OCD on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 06:06:25 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Nobody here gives two ***** about the father. (0+ / 0-)

                      But they do care about the baby, and about the other babies in the facility that share the space.

                      Just because the father doesn't care about his kid doesn't mean that the rest of us shouldn't.

                      The literal willingness in this discussion to toss the baby out with the bathwater (it is a "racist" baby, apparently, after all) is disgusting.

                      It is clearly time for some of us to take a break from this place; it's become fairly vile.

                      -9.63, 0.00
                      "Liberty" is deaf, dumb, and useless without life itself.

                      by nobody at all on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 09:21:27 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                  •  Rather than shuffling the nurse (5+ / 0-)

                    ... most familiar with the infant's needs off the case:

                    - If the father was a threat, he should have been dealt with by security.

                    - If he was not a threat, then he could feel free to sit and fume while the hospital refused to break the law.

                    His racism has no relevance to the baby's care, and should not have been a consideration. It's the hospital's duty to provide care to the patient, not to cater to the whims of asshole relatives.

                    Period.

                    Your attempt to support this overt racism is dumbfounding.

                  •  Free Market Medicine! (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    lostinamerica, zett

                    See - I can only comprehend your position as being informed by a 'free market medicine' mentality

                    Yes - everything you say about the concerns regarding family and ANYONE in ICU (or the hospital for that matter - but things are more concerning in ICU) is reflective of 'best practices' concerning patient care and family support.

                    But - the idea that the hospital response would be anything but "Sorry - we can't accommodate that request, obviously" could ONLY be framed as acceptable within the 'free market' mentality

                    I am currently subject to the fucked up so called 'medical system' in the US - but I wasn't raised in it or lived it most of my life - and so the story struck me as simply bizarre (I am not particularly supportive of the suit - but, apparently that is a very popular remedy in the US as well ... )

                    So - I don't dismiss Your response out of an abundance of political correctness or a dismissal of the patient's family's concerns - but I also find the context of the situation so alien to an overall positive approach to medicine which is reflected by the US free market approach that it is something that is very bizarre ... and indicative that the move towards a better medical system in the US is even more an uphill climb than I had hoped ...

                    "I want to keep them alive long enough that I can win them to Christ," - Rick Warren, Professional Greed Driven Scumbag

                    by josephk on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 07:05:09 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

              •  Makes me wonder what the child was in the (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                radical simplicity, tikkun

                hospital for.   Was he caught playing with a black child?
                Really, with that kind of mindset, who knows.   Look, the hospital SHOULD be sued.  One cannot discriminate like this.  What next?  A woman...a male nurse...a person wiht a disability....I can understand ( not really but get the nutters, but a professional medical facility should know better.   I hope they shut the place down and had I been the adminstrator I would have stabilized the child and told Daddy  there would be no cross burning in a hospital for all the people.  I would have not part of jeoparding facility care due to predjudice and then I would have called protective services for child investigations of the homelife.

                We the People have to make a difference and the Change.....Just do it ! Be part of helping us build a veteran community online. United Veterans of America

                by Vetwife on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:18:24 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  Yes, you are n/t (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                svboston, josephk, radical simplicity

                It is time to #Occupy Media.

                by lunachickie on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:28:57 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

            •  Also- man. I gotta say. (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              grover, SwedishJewfish, ladybug53

              The idea of an "ambulance transfer" of a NICU patient is really just mind blowing.  What if this child requires the services of a lvl 3 NICU and the next one is an hour away?  And should the family pay for this transfer?  One that requires a special transfer team, as well.  Your average EMT is not going to be equipped to transfer a child that is so fragile he or she has ended up in NICU.

              I just really had to point that out.

              I'm living in an age that calls darkness light.

              by electricgrendel on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 03:16:37 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Yes, (15+ / 0-)

                the racists will have to pay for it.
                That is the cost of racism today.
                Good lord!

                The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. - Elbert Hubbard -9.62/-8.15

                by GustavMahler on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 03:27:00 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  And if the infant dies in transit? (4+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  TheRain, grover, SwedishJewfish, ladybug53

                  I guess that's okay, because it is a racist whose heart was torn apart?

                  The desire to hurt these people just amazing.  I have been part of this community for going on 9 years now, and I have really never just seen anything so vicious.  I think that the father is disgusting, but man.  This conversation is changing my entire perception of this community.

                  I'm living in an age that calls darkness light.

                  by electricgrendel on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 03:38:56 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  No one is "huring" the racist jackass. (13+ / 0-)

                    If a racist (in your concern troll hypothetical situation) chooses to let their child be harmed or die rather than get care from a black nurse/doctor/EMT, that isn't someone "hurting" them.  That is the racist being so f'ing stupid/bigoted/moronic that I can't possibly feel sorry for them.  I feel sorry for the child for having such pieces of garbage for parents though.

                    Life is full of choices. If you choose to harm your own child rather than let a black person at a hospital take care of them, well then you brought that on yourself.  Sorry.  

                    •  Let's take this to another scenario. This guy (6+ / 0-)

                      is seriously frosted about a black President, to the extent that he has stroked out and also damaged his heart.  Do we have a recall election to protect him (and Rush Limbaugh) from the deleterious to their health effects of our callous electoral choices?

                      I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

                      by I love OCD on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:12:41 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  Um, we don't let parents choose to harm their (3+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      ebohlman, Munchkn, SwedishJewfish

                      own child, racist or no.

                      Nor should we here.

                      Child comes first. Tough situation. Hospital did not do anything out of line, so far as I can see.

                      There are racists in the world. Some of them have children.

                      This doesn't mean that we say "well, f*** the children, they are the children of racists, let the racists do with their children what they may."

                      -9.63, 0.00
                      "Liberty" is deaf, dumb, and useless without life itself.

                      by nobody at all on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:59:32 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Let me amend that. (0+ / 0-)

                        Hospital could have handled this in a more sensitive, private manner.

                        But the basic change remains sensible given the totality of the circumstances, and if I was the nurse, I would have agreed with the basic change. (Note that I am not a nurse, so feel free to flame away and call me a racist.)

                        -9.63, 0.00
                        "Liberty" is deaf, dumb, and useless without life itself.

                        by nobody at all on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:10:45 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Why does the child come first for the (3+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          tikkun, Debby, zett

                          hospital when it's clear race comes first for the father?  Isn't his racism child abuse?  If the black nurse is best at caring for certain NICU patients does the father's racism give him the right to endanger the child's survival?  

                          I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

                          by I love OCD on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:23:09 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Not just for the hospital— (4+ / 0-)

                            the child ought to come first for everyone. Not "the children," so don't confuse this with a "think of the children" deflection.

                            This is about one real, concrete kid with needs. Those needs were best served by making the decision the hospital made.

                            Force a black nurse on white supremacist parents and you get stress, anger (not good for kids in this situation), conflict (nurse less able to think clearly about job), and the potential for the kid to be moved (also not good).

                            In general, racism needs to be fought. In this specific time and place, a kid needs to be helped to live first. There are lots of people out there waging the good fight, and they are winning, slowly but surely. The tide of history is surging. There is no need to place all of that on this kid's shoulders already, just because his/her parents are horrible people. That's enough of a burden for now.

                            Worry about the child abuse of racism once the kid is out of the hospital. Time and place.

                            -9.63, 0.00
                            "Liberty" is deaf, dumb, and useless without life itself.

                            by nobody at all on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 06:50:21 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I can't kick the baby or the (0+ / 0-)

                            baby daddy out of the hospital, or administer the hospital.  I wouldn't try.  I will be angry that the pig won because he may cause harm.  Just like I'm angry that the next pope will be an old man who will continue to disrespect women and protect pedophiles.  Doesn't alter my day to day life, it's just how I feel about sexism, racism, homophobia.

                            I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

                            by I love OCD on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 07:14:53 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Excellent Point (4+ / 0-)

                            Under these circumstances, the father should have been removed while the child was receiving care because an unseemly outburst on his part would endanger every child on the unit.

                            Newt 2012. Sociopath, adulterer, hypocrite, Republican.

                            by tikkun on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 07:12:19 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                        •  No, sorry (0+ / 0-)

                          Racial discrimination is against the law. The hospital broke the law by reassigning the nurse on the basis of race. That is quite clear.

                      •  They absolutely did something wrong (5+ / 0-)

                        Even their own lawyer stated that they did something wrong.

                        Illegal is illegal, and the reason discrimination is illegal is because it is wrong.

                        •  Legality is a flimsy substitute for morality. (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          ebohlman

                          Any DailyKos reader ought to know this.

                          Racism is evil.

                          But it is the parents that are the racists, and this is a complex situation in which it is a kid's life at risk.

                          I'm glad this decision wasn't mine.

                          And without having been there, I'm absolutely unwilling to pin this hospital and its staff to the mat in the way that many here seem to be.

                          The world is not black and white. No, not even the world of progressive values.

                          Or at least, it ought not to be.

                          I'd like to think that if a skinhead-boasting, swastika-wearing, minority-shooting, wife-beating man lay dying on the street, I'd do what I could to help him first, as a human being, even if I'd fight him tooth and nail again once he was well and all medical concerns had passed.

                          In this case, a kid's life was at stake. An innocent, very little kid. I'm not going to sit as judge and jury from a distance; I'm going to defer to the professionals that were there, until I get better evidence than I've seen here that something other than a best attempt to deal with a very difficult situation in a medically sensible way was at issue.

                          -9.63, 0.00
                          "Liberty" is deaf, dumb, and useless without life itself.

                          by nobody at all on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 07:15:03 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  It is immoral to discriminate (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Debby, AaronInSanDiego, elmo

                            That's why we, as a nation, made it illegal - to give the force of law to the moral option.

                          •  I don't disagree. (0+ / 0-)

                            But we can't imagine that once we nominally codify morality in legal terms, we no longer need to ask questions or interrogate situations on moral grounds.

                            The law serves morality; it does not take its place—precisely because law is far too economical to cope with all of the moral complications that arise in the very dirty real world.

                            If this were not true, then law would be an easy profession and task: simply translate morality into law once, at society's founding, and be done with it.

                            We need lawyers, judges, and juries, and we amend statues and policy precisely because law is inevitably inadequate to the totality of the moral circumstances of society.

                            -9.63, 0.00
                            "Liberty" is deaf, dumb, and useless without life itself.

                            by nobody at all on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 07:29:21 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Garbage (6+ / 0-)

                            I'm sorry, but wishy-washy garbage like this is what prevents us as a country from moving forward.  This is the kind of appeasement crap that kept separate-but-equal around for so long.  People pretending that they are justifications for why racism has to be tolerated.  

                            This should have been an easy decision.  The hospital could have done what it needed to do to make sure the child was not in any immediate danger.   Once that was done, it could have made things clear to the parents that the hospital staff was THE HOSPITAL STAFF and that if they didn't like that, they they could move the child to a different hospital at their own cost.  Instituting a "NO N*G*E* NURSES TOUCH WHITEY'S BABY" policy was insulting, vulgar, disgusting, and took us back to an age where Rosa Parks was told to move to the back of the bus.

                            I hope the hospital pays out the ass for this and that some people lose their jobs, because both are richly deserved.  Defending the hospital because they were just "looking out for the kid" is just bullshit.  

                          •  People are just making up shit at this point (0+ / 0-)

                            to justify their instinctive reaction to defend the hospital's hurtful reactions.  Nobody here has any reason to believe that bigot daddy was any kind of threat.  Nobody has any reason to believe that refusing his request would have jeopardized the baby's care.  Nobody has any reason to believe the hospital would have had any liability on religious or any other legal grounds -- quite the opposite actually!  But that's all they can think of, so they keep flogging it.

                          •  People like you on both sides (0+ / 0-)

                            are what keep society from moving forward.

                            -9.63, 0.00
                            "Liberty" is deaf, dumb, and useless without life itself.

                            by nobody at all on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 06:15:02 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  No, just you. (0+ / 0-)

                            Sorry, you're the problem here, not me.  I'm sorry you can't see that your need to appease and defend racists and racist behavior is a problem.

                          •  As someone that has a long history of being (0+ / 0-)

                            subject to racists and racism, in ways that have landed me in medical facilities, all I can say is: go ** yourself.

                            -9.63, 0.00
                            "Liberty" is deaf, dumb, and useless without life itself.

                            by nobody at all on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 07:54:39 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Telling (0+ / 0-)

                            I find it telling that you can't seem to muster any anger towards a hospital that has essentially told Rosa Parks to go sit in the back of the bus, yet you seem to be able to get plenty angry with me.  

                            I'm glad you have stood up to racism in your past.  I have no idea why you are choosing to defend and appease it today.  

                            If the hospital had needed to appease the parents in an emergency situation until the child was stabalized that would be one thing.    But to continue to do so for a full month without any specific complaints about the nurses other than "they are black" is unconscionable and most likely, illegal.  

                          •  Under what scenario is the child's life (0+ / 0-)

                            at risk? None that I can imagine with any plausibility.

                            When his demand for "whites only" care was rejected, he could have demanded a transfer, although he could not have demanded a transfer to a "whites only" institution because none such can legally exist. And any transfer to another hospital would have been subject to the requirement that such a transfer would not be life threatening, because the original hospital would be within its legal right to refuse to make such a transfer. If the father was demanding something life threatening for the child, the hospital would contact Child Protective Services, etc.

                          •  NICU. (0+ / 0-)

                            That is all.

                            -9.63, 0.00
                            "Liberty" is deaf, dumb, and useless without life itself.

                            by nobody at all on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 09:01:16 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                  •  Heart Was Torn Apart (4+ / 6-)

                    There's little desire to hurt the racists. The other people you struggle to understand simply care more about the racist's victim than about the racist.

                    You don't. Because you're a racist.

                    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

                    by DocGonzo on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:17:55 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Enough. (4+ / 1-)
                      Recommended by:
                      WisePiper, tytalus, Amor Y Risa, Eyesbright
                      Hidden by:
                      IT Professional

                      Get off your high horse.

                      I dare you, spend one day on the floor, doing what we do. See just how long your moral righteousness lasts when you are faced with the task of saving peoples lives, alleviating their suffering, and all of the other CRAP you are forced to navigate through just so you can do your goddamn job.

                      And HR'd for yet another baseless accusations of racism.

                      You must work-we must all work-to make a world that is worthy of its children -Pablo Casals Please support TREE Climbers for victims of child sexual abuse and exploitation.

                      by SwedishJewfish on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 06:12:20 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Enough of You (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        IT Professional

                        I spent over 2 years working full time in a large hospital in NY. At over 800 beds, it was the trauma, AIDS and burn center for all downstate NY excluding NYC. I worked mostly helping run the blood bank. I also dealt with a lot of patients, especially people coming into the emergency room.

                        I have been tried by circumstances plenty of times in my life. And I don't come out of it accepting racism.

                        Evidently you do.

                        You come off your high horse. The one that insists that you have more basis to judge this abetting of bigotry better than I can.

                        BTW: HR'ing me doesn't help your argument. It makes it a loser.

                        "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

                        by DocGonzo on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 09:06:55 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Self-righteousness plus namecalling (0+ / 0-)

                          I'll take your opinion under advisement.

                          “Now, I can imagine the shocking headlines you’ll print tomorrow morning: 'More guns,' you’ll claim, 'are the NRA’s answer to everything!'" -- Wayne LaPierre

                          by tytalus on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 09:49:35 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Your Advisement (0+ / 0-)

                            What namecalling?

                            And what self-righteousness? Unless you mean the part where I denouce accepting racism, whatever one or another person's "exceptional circumstances".

                            Take my "opinion" under advisement, or not. I'm not interested in whether people with your evaluation skills find it worthy.

                            "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

                            by DocGonzo on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 09:37:58 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                        •  "Accepting racism" (0+ / 0-)

                          A member of my own fucking family basically lost his life because of racism. I've had my home vandalized because of racism. I am working for at least 2 hours every day for the past 2 months on a project that deals directly with racism, without any pay. But right, I "accept racism".

                          I am telling you what it is like to be on the front lines, as a nurse, and the shit you have to deal with. Sometimes that is racism. Sometimes it's sexism. Sometimes it's patients grabbing you buy the crotch and calling you a dirty little bitcch, or throwing bodily fluids on you, or punching you, or spitting on you. It means your patient might be a child who has been seriously abused, who comes in with his or her abusive parent, and not only do you have to help that child, you have to be nice and develop a rapport with the parent too, even though every fiber of your being wants to jump over the exam table and strangle them. But you can't, because your patient is the child, and the child comes with their parents, warts and all, and it's not your place to even judge them-that's the job of CPS, the authorities, and the courts. In the meantime, you have to suck it up and deal.

                          And you know what? You deal with it. You do your job anyways. Does that mean you "accept" racism, sexism, crotch grabbing, name calling, throwing bodily fluids, and physical assault? Does that mean I condone Child Abuse??? If I have a patient who's telling me racist jokes while I'm trying to drain his g-tube, I'm not going to tell him "stop telling racist jokes, I find that offensive". I'm going to ignore him. Because there's no fucking point. I'm not there to moralize to him, and it's not like I'm going to change his fucking mind anyways. When you have a floor full of patients to take care of, you don't have time to preach.

                          And I'm sorry, but Working in the healthcare field-running a blood bank, dealing with patients-while it is commendable work, it is not the same as being a nurse. I've worked as an ER tech and done patient transport, and CNA work, and I used to think it was pretty much the same thing as being a nurse-a lot of people conflate like that. But now that I actually AM a nurse, I laugh at my former self, because there is a night and day difference, and until you actually do the job, you really cannot possibly understand what it entails.  

                          You are entitled to your own opinions, so if you want to think I'm a racism "enabler", have at it. I will sleep quite well tonight knowing I'm not.

                          You must work-we must all work-to make a world that is worthy of its children -Pablo Casals Please support TREE Climbers for victims of child sexual abuse and exploitation.

                          by SwedishJewfish on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 10:38:51 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  As an impartial observer (5+ / 0-)

                            with no dog in this fight, and not knowing any of the participants, I have to say... you do pretty much come off as a racism enabler.

                            You're just wrong on this one. When faced with racism the correct response is to refuse it, not to give into it for any reason. Otherwise, you will soon find that every racist has a reason, and we might as well toss out the Civil Rights Act.

                            As for the health of the baby, that is a complete non-issue. If the father chose to move the child, that is the father's choice, and if it was an non-medically justifiable choice, well there are laws and policies for that too.

                            You're just wrong on this.

                          •  In general I agree with you (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            zett, poco

                            100% on this:

                            When faced with racism the correct response is to refuse it, not to give into it for any reason. Otherwise, you will soon find that every racist has a reason, and we might as well toss out the Civil Rights Act.
                            Where we disagree is on whether or not the child and other patients in the NICU were put at risk if his request was denied. It seemed that was the case here-listening to different perspectives on it, I am willing to admit my initial assessment of this situation was probably wrong.

                            It did not require personal attacks and accusations of racism to get me to see it that way. All it takes is dialogue.

                            You should read the discussion about this on All Nurses-much more insight, all from nurses, and with many different opinions and experiences. And so far, I haven't seen anyone calling anyone a racist or personally attacking them.

                            http://allnurses.com/...

                            You must work-we must all work-to make a world that is worthy of its children -Pablo Casals Please support TREE Climbers for victims of child sexual abuse and exploitation.

                            by SwedishJewfish on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 08:14:38 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Personal Attacks? (0+ / 0-)

                            I have disagreed only with actions that accept racism. When it's true about you, I suppose that's "personal". But that's not a "personal attack".

                            What you're hearing is not my posts, but your guilty conscience. You should listen to it.

                            "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

                            by DocGonzo on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 09:39:16 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I did (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            DocGonzo

                            read my response to you below.

                            You must work-we must all work-to make a world that is worthy of its children -Pablo Casals Please support TREE Climbers for victims of child sexual abuse and exploitation.

                            by SwedishJewfish on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 10:24:06 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I Did (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            SwedishJewfish

                            I replied. Thanks.

                            "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

                            by DocGonzo on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 03:49:24 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  But consider (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            DocGonzo, zett, SwedishJewfish

                            it wasn't any nurse on the front lines here who condoned racism: it was the administrators who reassigned the baby to "whites only" care.

                            There is no excuse for that, sorry.

                          •  More Martyrdom (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            zett

                            I didn't say that my work in the medical field was the same as being a nurse. You did, to deny it - in your strawman just now.

                            What I said was in response to:

                            I dare you, spend one day on the floor, doing what we do. See just how long your moral righteousness lasts when you are faced with the task of saving peoples lives, alleviating their suffering, and all of the other CRAP you are forced to navigate through just so you can do your goddamn job.

                            I have spent more than one day on the floor doing what nurses do, among my regular duties in the pathology lab. I started during high school, a pre-med exercise in which I tried working as many duties as the law allowed. My experience working fulltime in a big hospital, in the critical path with lives on the line, gives me plenty of firsthand experience on which to base my judgement of correct behavior in hospitals. Despite what you said there, which wrongly decided without facts that I don't have experience that qualifies me to judge.

                            "It's a nurse thing; you wouldn't understand" is as lame and narcissistic a rationalization as any that replace the word "nurse" with anything else. Again, you've decided that your nurse work makes you an unimpeachable expert, regardless of others' experience, facts or logic.

                            My experience also taught me that most people in a hospital each thinks that they're the one with the hardest job, that they're the only one qualified to judge appropriate behavior by themself and everyone else. Everyone's a martyr. Your rants in this thread show you're no exception.

                            Nothing will ever be good enough experience to argue with you. Other nurses in this thread are getting shouted down, too.

                            I really don't care how well or poorly you sleep at night. Your thinking that's a measure of my success in this thread is just more evidence that you can't see past your own self in this discussion. What I care about is that any excuse for accepting racism is challenged by reality - in public.

                            You have undeniably argued for accepting racism: "in this case", "for this reason". That makes you unambiguously accepting of racism, in the ways acceptable to you: "for the good of the patient". Rejecting racist treatment is just "preaching". Others have their reasons for accepting racism. That's how racism stays alive. Mine is not a dismissable "opinion", but rather a factual analysis. If you have to live in denial of that to sleep at night, or to do your job, that's your choice. But I'm not going to join you in lying about it.

                            "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

                            by DocGonzo on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 09:35:28 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Yeah I do have a bit of that going on there (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Ozy, poco

                            with that comment. I'm not exactly proud of it.

                            Look, I was emotionally riled up about this topic, as many of us were, because it involved a baby who I believed quite strongly was at risk, and a nurse who was the victim of horrible racism-two things that are very upsetting, for me both of them strike a particular emotional chord. And also because in all my time at Kos, in my entire life, I have literally never been called a racist, and that's probably one of the worst accusations I've ever had lobbed against me. Yes, that cut to the core, and I reacted out of anger, assuming you and everyone else here simply didn't understand, lacked the relevant experience to really understand, and didn't even care about the baby.

                            As I said in other comments, after cooling down, talking this over with other nurses on a forum I frequent, I have a very different perspective. I've posted about it a few times-basically, I hadn't considered the possibility that he could have been removed from the premises immediately on the basis of his request alone. That is exactly what should have been done here.

                            I said a lot of things last night that I regret, and that includes my responses to you. For starters, I didn't read the parent comment you were responding to, I thought it was another one. I was defending someone without reading all of their comments (in my defense, he made a shitload of them) and after doing so I realize it went far and beyond the point I thought he was arguing. I would still hesitate to lob the racism accusation at him, but I don't think you deserved the HR for it so I have removed it.

                            In conclusion, mea culpa. I was wrong on many levels and I feel like the biggest ass in the world right now. For the last 2 months I have been working on a writing project documenting the gun deaths of every child under age 18 from January 1st 2012 up until now, and had planned on doing my first diary about it today. That diary was supposed to address the racism that surrounds the gun debate, and the fact that black children are exponentially more likely to be killed in a gun homicide, and yet they never enter into the debate, and never make the news. That diary remains unfinished, because I spent all of last night here defending a ridiculous position based on my own ignorance.

                            I did not sleep well at all.

                            You must work-we must all work-to make a world that is worthy of its children -Pablo Casals Please support TREE Climbers for victims of child sexual abuse and exploitation.

                            by SwedishJewfish on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 10:22:50 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I want to commend you (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            SwedishJewfish, DocGonzo

                            for being extremely diligent in following up with your change of heart in all the various threads you've been involved in.

                            Changing your mind in public is rare enough, but to go through each conversation thread and respond with respect even in some that were a bit heated shows great character.

                            Kudos to you.

                          •  I'm Sorry Too (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            SwedishJewfish

                            Thank you for actually making a web disagreement worth having. You are probably a better person than I am for so quickly changing your mind. And I didn't make it easy by confronting you with short, strong words, even upping the ante, rather than finding a way to reach common ground.

                            Thinking about this conflict, especially your last message, I realize how my own self-righetousness, even if earned, was being served by my purely adversarial approach. I wasn't just opposing racism, I was bragging about rejecting it. Which made it harder for others, focused on you, to think about ourselves. I'm sorry I didn't make it easier, as others in these threads did. It's bigotry and ignorance that's the problem, especially however much even the best of us have in ourselves.

                            Thank you for graciously coming back and agreeing in public. It inspires me to do my part better next time. And it's more consistent with how I thought I knew you before from reading your posts on DKos.

                            Indeed, you have elevated the average worth of the entire site.

                            "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

                            by DocGonzo on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 03:47:33 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                  •  If the infant was too delicate to transfer (5+ / 0-)

                    It wouldn't be transferred.

                    No other hospital would accept a transfer of an unstable infant, and no hospital would agree to effect such a transfer.

                    Your strawman is very poorly stuffed.

                    Racism isn't an affliction, and refusing to kowtow to it isn't harming the racist.

              •  NICU patients are transferred all the time (0+ / 0-)

                Some babies are not born in hospitals with Level III care and they need to be transferred.

            •  I didn't see it as a defense (0+ / 0-)

              Working out how the asshole could be accommodated is not the same as saying he should have been.

              Freedom isn't free. Patriots pay taxes.

              by Dogs are fuzzy on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 10:01:32 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  An issue I see (14+ / 0-)

            is that while any loss of continuity of care is probably minimal and the chance of dire consequences is negligible, those risks aren't being imposed solely on the baby with the racist dad (who could be argued to have assumed those risks in the unlikely case they were realized). They're also being imposed on the other baby who the newly-assigned white nurse was previously caring for.

            There are two handoffs here, not just one. Neither can be justified on purely medical grounds. The first one can be justified on the grounds of patient autonomy, but I can find no ethical justification for the second one; the second baby is being put at increased risk (however slight) purely to accomodate an unrelated third party's personal preferences.

            If anything goes wrong with that second kid (and the very fact that he is in the NICU implies a high chance of something going wrong), his parents would likely (IANAL) have a good claim that standard-of-care wasn't followed, and that the failure to follow standard-of-care was willful. If the hospital is successfully sued (even if the bad outcome wasn't directly related to the unnecessary handoff, you'd have an uphill struggle to convince the jury of that), its malpractice carrier could probably refuse to pay the claim, leaving the hospital (and some of its professional staff) on hook for 100%.

            So unless the racist dad's request happened right at the moment that another baby left the NICU, leaving a white nurse ready to take on a new patient, he isn't just making a request to change his kid's caregiver, he's making a request to change someone else's kid's caregiver. There's nothing reasonable whatsoever about the latter.

            Writing in all lower-case letters should be a capital offense

            by ebohlman on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:08:24 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  You Don't Understand Protection from Racism (4+ / 1-)
            forcing a racist to deal with someone he doesn't want to deal with (either to spite him, or more charitably to hope that he has some realization that his values are stupid), there seems to be very little reason why this family's ridiculous request could not be

            Even after repeated responses to you pointing out that protecting the nurse from bigotry is the reason not to prohibit their caring for this baby, you still don't acknowledge that could even possibly be the reason for it. Evben though that's what the diary is all about. Even though it's absolutely obvious to anyone... who's not a bigot.

            You''re a racist.

            "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

            by DocGonzo on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:16:01 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  this statement... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            IT Professional
            Other than forcing a racist to deal with someone he doesn't want to deal with (either to spite him, or more charitably to hope that he has some realization that his values are stupid),
            is offending because no one was forcing this man.  It is what it is; 2013 and slavery is over.  The south lost so he should get over it.  There are laws against discrimination and that is what the man did.  Practiced discrimination with the help of a scared hospital who did not know how to say no to him.  I bet they would say no to a hispanic or african american easily without fear.

            It's ridiculous.  This is nothing but pure racism and the man said so and the church complied with a BIG SIGN AT THE DOOR.

          •  What about age? (0+ / 0-)

            Would you also be understanding if the patient requested that no nurses over the age of thirty care for their child?

            Or would that also be a reasonable request?

            You may never have to wonder about being black, but you may have to wonder about being over thirty one day.

      •  Disagree. Any "barrier" was created by the father (20+ / 0-)

        Don't tell me what you value. Show me your budget, and I'll tell you what you value. ~ Joe Biden

        by dmhlt 66 on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 02:20:11 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  People do not get to choose hospital staff. (18+ / 0-)

        If the hospital's judgement is not adequate, the patients can take their custom elsewhere.

        We organize governments to deliver services and prevent abuse.

        by hannah on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 02:26:44 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  The hell they don't. lol (12+ / 0-)

          Patients fire staff all of the time.  They request particular nurses not care for them.  I have seem patients request techs not take care for them, and that they receive a new doctor from the pool of hospitalists.

          Patients are encouraged to be active in their care, and they have a great latitude of who provides them care.  Much less offensive requests than the one this man made are honored every day in hospitals across the nation.

          I'm living in an age that calls darkness light.

          by electricgrendel on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 02:31:30 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  So ... (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Karl Rover, raincrow, lunachickie

            Isn't that sort of the point? That other requests, which are honored, are "much less offensive?" And that this request is incredibly offensive and therefore shouldn't be granted?

            •  Nope. (6+ / 0-)

              The degree of offensiveness really shouldn't play into it.  Yes it is repugnant, and it could have been handled better.  But what is the point of confronting this family in its hour of crisis?  What is to be gained by forcing upon them a nurse to which they may not be open, or honest or even compliant?

              What is the point, other than "RAWR! We'll show those racists!" of forcing this family to have an African-American nurse?

              The note in the chart is exceedingly problematic, but the philosophical issue arising in how care is provided seems to expose some community member's desire to inflict suffering on this family just because.

              I'm living in an age that calls darkness light.

              by electricgrendel on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 02:43:54 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Quite frankly, I am finding your continual (27+ / 0-)

                support of the hospital's obnoxious stance kind of offensive.

                I had a child who needed medical treatment many times.  If I was that worried about who was treating him, other than rather they were qualified and competent, than I was not worried about my child.

                This father and hospital get no sympathy from me.

                •  Thank you for (9+ / 0-)

                  saying this. I am getting so angry now I should just leave.

                  The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. - Elbert Hubbard -9.62/-8.15

                  by GustavMahler on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 03:29:36 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                •  (sigh) for the millionth time.... (9+ / 0-)

                  No where on this comment board do I see ANYONE condoning the father's actions. NONE! This is a clear-cut, simple case of "I disagree with what you stand for but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

                  Is the dad a racist asshole? Yes, ... but as long as his request did not endanger anyone and was within the law he had the right for such a request to be obeyed. If it was something different.... say, the only NICU staff on call that shift were non-caucasian and the father demanded that his baby be left alone and endangered rather than touched by a non-white person then THAT is illegal! If the father tried to grab the baby and make a run for it without going through proper discharge procedures then of course the hospital is obligated to stop him. If the father cornered the nurse somewhere and verbally abused her or threatened her then of course that's against the law and the hospital has an obligation to call security on his ass. None of that happened though.

                  Suppose a lesbian couple had a baby in the NICU, and they noticed a the NICU nurse was a strong conservative Catholic with outspoken views against homosexuality and non-traditional families? Unwilling to allow their son to be exposed to such negative vibes the couple asks the hospital to remove the nurse and not have her care for the baby. The hospital complies and the nurse immediately sues the hospital for religious discrimination.... I would immediately tell that nurse "Kwitcher bitchin'!"

                  Medical professionals are patient advocates and they must comply with patient requests as long as such requests do not cause danger to anyone. This often results in discrimination. As a female EMT I have often been called all sorts of names by drunk or aggressive patients. I leave the room and do not treat them if that is what they want. My male colleagues often do not want me near physically threatening patients... and likewise my male colleagues are often told to stay away from female patients who have just suffered sexual assault. In that situation a female EMT is ideal for conducting a physical exam and getting vital signs and information.

                  Everybody gets sick, good people and assholes alike. As a medical professional you just have to roll with it.

                •  Such a hard heart. (2+ / 5-)

                  It's easy to hate someone different from you.  It's hard to find compassion for them.  How are we different from the Right when we look at a man in this situation and all we want to do is hurt him by forcing him to deal with someone he has requested not to deal with?

                  I find the utter lack of compassion on display, and the hissing need to hurt someone to be kind of offensive.  Maybe we can be offended together, since it appears that the entire point of this diary and many of the responses is to point out how aggrieved and offended we are.

                  I'm living in an age that calls darkness light.

                  by electricgrendel on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 03:48:28 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Oh, BS for heaven's sake. Who mentioned hate? (15+ / 0-)

                    Besides you, of course.  If you do not see the side of someone who was thoroughly humiliated and hurt because of her race then I suggest you are the one without compassion.  And, if the hospital receives federal or state funding of any kind, then they were operating outside the law.

                    As I said, I have been in the situation of having a child in the ICN.  If the race of the nurse was what he was worrying about, he wasn't worrying enough about his child.

                    Your continuing defense of this person has left the level of trying to see his side of things and has achieved the level of merely trying to stir things up.  And this is further evidenced by your stupendously ridiculous use of the word "hate" in answer to my post.

                    And maybe you need to go to your corner and start trying to think about compassion to people who are hated and forced to endure intolerance due to the color of their skin.

                    He has the option to be racist or not.  She is black no matter what.

                  •  He's NOT different (7+ / 0-)
                    all we want to do is hurt him by forcing him to deal with someone he has requested not to deal with?
                    because of something he can't help, e.g, gender, disablity race etc. He's chooses to be "different" in a way that actively hurts people and Dog forbid he gets his feefees hurt  should he be forced to deal with a"Nigra"

                    He BRAGGED about his fucking swastika.  I suppose he's a Holocaust denier.  That's part of his "cultural background" to you right?

                    "I have to go... There are two gay men knocking on my door asking me if I need any abortions or marijuana. Diary, this may be my last entry" Facebook hysteria after 2012 election

                    by pitbullgirl65 on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:21:35 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  This is a troll, right? (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    IT Professional

                    This comment has to be trolling.

                  •  I think you are forgetting the fact (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Lost and Found, zett, schnecke21

                    that there is another human being to consider here: the nurse. How do you imagine she feels about being reassigned by her employer on the basis of her race? Where is your compassion for her?

                  •  How does (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    schnecke21

                    refusing his irrational and racist request 'hurt' this parent. The baby, the patients well being, is not being hurt by refusing to accommodate this bigot's illegal demands. If your professional concern is solely about care and survival of the patient, an infant, how does pandering to a racist's irrational illegal demands ensure the well being of your patient.  This parent  clearly does not care as much about his child's care as he does about acting on his hatred of black people.

                    Perhaps if he was physically threatening people or interfering with the hospitals ability to function the head nurse might defuse the situation on the spot by replacing the nurse. In this case the hospital seems to have complied with his racist demand and allowed his hatred and bigotry to dictate the hospitals handling of the baby's physical care. Why should he not have to deal with the people that are professional and competent to care for a premature at risk infant?

                    I think that the compassion should be for the well being of the child and not for a parent who's so ignorant and hateful that he is not capable of putting his infants well being ahead of his bigotry. If he was the patient here perhaps compassion would come into play, but he wasn't.

                    This could have been handled away from the floor by the administrative staff. Surely most hospitals have social service workers, lawyers or a way to deal with relatives who interfere with care giving of patients. They could have dealt with this so that it was not dangerous to the baby's health and yet did not allow this racist the power to dictate who 'dealt' with his infant's life saving treatment and care.

                    The nurse should sue the hospital. Allowing a bigot to interfere with his infants care because of his hateful prejudice and saying that white nurses only could deal with this patient is discriminatory. It also would seem to not be in the infants best interests. The head nurse by complying with the dad's demand  to discriminate and dictate having no African American's caring for his baby and putting a note in the patients file for a month isn't showing compassion for anyone. It's allowing a bigot to practice bigotry which is illegal and harmful to all involved.    

                                       

                •  Thank you. (12+ / 0-)
                  If I was that worried about who was treating him, other than rather they were qualified and competent, than I was not worried about my child.
                  The hospital's correct reponse should be "We will assign the most competent staff to care for your child" and let it lie there.  If the parents take their child away because the nurse is not of the Master Race, the parents are at minimum noncompliant and at fault.

                  The scene on November 6, midnight: Barack Obama holds up newspaper reading "Romney defeats Obama" as he heads to give his second term acceptance speech.

                  by alkatt on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:40:26 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

              •  What is the point of forcing the HOSPITAL (8+ / 0-)

                to accommodate a racist?

                Real Devil's Advocacy doesn't need to be shoved down anyone's throat repeatedly. It stands on its own the first time.

                Yours didn't, and you continued doing the Devil's work anyway. Disgusting.

                It is time to #Occupy Media.

                by lunachickie on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:34:07 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  There is no "better" way to indulge (4+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Debby, IT Professional, zett, schnecke21

                bigots.  It's not up to the rest of the world, let alone the nurse harmed, to indulge them until they catch up.  We heard that arguments from those afraid of conflict when we insisted on ending jim crow,  discrimination against women, gay rights..."give it time" "give us time"  "your time will come.  Your argument is just another variant of those cop outs.

                Newt 2012. Sociopath, adulterer, hypocrite, Republican.

                by tikkun on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 07:23:18 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

          •  It's not an amusing matter. (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            antirove, ItsSimpleSimon, raincrow, alkatt

            Patients making decisions about the appropriateness of care and care providers represents an abrogation of professional responsibility.
            If patients are calling the shots, then mistakes won't be the professional's fault.

            We organize governments to deliver services and prevent abuse.

            by hannah on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 03:00:40 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Bullshit, I've made those decisions many times ... (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              tikkun, Debby, IT Professional, zett

              ... because I've had an incompetent providers, or outlier reaction to a medications.

              However, my decisions were at least evidence based; rejecting care for a very sick infant because of the race of the caregiver has no basis in reality.

              Penn State - Rug too small, dirtpile too big, not enough brooms.

              by WereBear Walker on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 06:17:57 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  Particular Nurses (4+ / 0-)

            You really are unable to distinguish between chosing people based on their behavior, vs the color of their skin. Or to recognize the greater value in protecting people from racism than from protecting racists.

            Because you're a racist.

            "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

            by DocGonzo on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:19:16 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  it might be argued that they can't (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          electricgrendel

          the hospital - patient realationship is quite uneven, unless the patient is pretty rich. You can not argue on a pure market basis here.

          Often, patients don't have the option to take their business elsewhere.

      •  Because it's 2013 and racists don 't (20+ / 0-)

        deserve sympathy and TLC?  Because it's illegal?

        Worst case of specious reasoning in a long ass time.  

        I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

        by I love OCD on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 02:29:19 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  You would make a terrible nurse. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          emelyn, Drobin, ladybug53

          Everyone deserves sympathy and TLC when they are in your care.  And you just have to reach deep down to find some place to pull out that caring.  And if you can't, then you keep your mouth shut, do your job, and ask for a different assignment the next day.

          In nursing you don't get to bring in your axes to grind.  You are there for the patient, and even your deeply held beliefs have to remain separate if doing so is required to care for your patient.

          I'm living in an age that calls darkness light.

          by electricgrendel on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 02:37:53 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Good thing I'm not a nurse. (10+ / 0-)

            Apparently whiteness is necessary for the sensitivity required of nurses?  Cuz that's what this father seems to think, and you're defending him.

            I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

            by I love OCD on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 02:43:17 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Yes. It is a good thing you're not a nurse. (6+ / 0-)

              Because you apparently lack the ability to separate your personal feelings and convictions from a professional requirement to deliver the best care you can to your patients, without judgment.

              You are utterly lacking in sympathy for a family with a very sick child.  You want to thrust conflict upon them because doing so lines up with your sense of how society should be.

              As I said earlier, it is easy to scorn people who disagree with you.  It's a lot harder to be compassionate, even for such people.  And it's just as hard to not engage despite your beliefs.

              I'm living in an age that calls darkness light.

              by electricgrendel on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 02:53:34 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  "Sorry, sir, we can't do what you're asking us to (28+ / 0-)

                because it would be illegal."

                They couldn't have said that?

                I suspect hospitals have to say that, many times, for many reasons. To very sick patients and their very stressed loved ones.

                And have scripts available from their legal departments.

                •  That sounds good. Here's how it works out. (7+ / 0-)

                  "It's illegal for us to rotate nurses to make sure you only have white nurses take care of your kids"

                  "So you're going to force a (bunch of racist crap) on me"

                  "Sir, it's not only the policy, it's the law".

                  Wait a few hours for the unruly patient to take a swing at a nurse, beat someone up, etc.

                  You followed the law to the letter and you put someone in a dangerous situation.

                  Hospitals rotate not because it's right, but because there are times where the juice is not worth the squeeze.  

                  The medical community has a set standard of how they deal with this:

                  Courteous Containment
                  Isolation of Risk
                  Removal of Patient

                  The pattern is supposed to be:  try to placate them first to prevent it from spiraling.  If the event is seemed as risky, you isolate the risk to make sure other patients aren't potentially at risk and nurses and staff are not at risk.  If none of that works, you remove the patient from the area.

                  The guy is a horrible racist.  I think we all agree on that.   Would we feel much better if, when his wish wasn't honored he took it out by beating up a patient or throwing a scene causing use of security forces/etc. that disrupt the patient care for others?

                  This issue isn't nearly as straightforward as it seems.

                  The guy is a scumbag.   But some settings don't make for easy confrontations

                  Gandhi's Seven Sins: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Commerce without morality; Science without humanity; Worship without sacrifice; Politics without principle

                  by Chris Reeves on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 03:31:30 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

              •  Racism is NOT a matter of disagreement. (14+ / 0-)
                As I said earlier, it is easy to scorn people who disagree with you
                This sounds too much like liberals being asked to tolerate intolerance.

                "I have to go... There are two gay men knocking on my door asking me if I need any abortions or marijuana. Diary, this may be my last entry" Facebook hysteria after 2012 election

                by pitbullgirl65 on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 03:18:06 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  I hope you don't work in a field that requires you (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Drobin, ladybug53

                  to put aside your personal convictions for the good of others.  Some times, in nursing, you do tolerate intolerance.  You don't engage it; you redirect your patient, and you need your care goals.  You do your job, which does not include alienating your patient by pointing out the ludicrousness of their beliefs.

                  I'm a liberal working as a floor nurse in Texas.  Can you imagine the amount of political crap I avoid when caring for elderly conservatives who have nothing to do except sit in bed and watch Fox News?  

                  I'm living in an age that calls darkness light.

                  by electricgrendel on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 03:58:11 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Oh get off it (6+ / 0-)

                    You're a white male. You can hide the fact you're a liberal.
                    You are not a black woman.
                     You have no idea what she has to endure, both from individuals like Swastika man and society at large.

                    Fox news must be rubbing off on you, because you've obviously learned  that someone pointing  out someones racism  is worse then being  racist.

                    "I have to go... There are two gay men knocking on my door asking me if I need any abortions or marijuana. Diary, this may be my last entry" Facebook hysteria after 2012 election

                    by pitbullgirl65 on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:29:48 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

              •  I'm with you 100% n/t (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                electricgrendel
              •  Where is your compassion (17+ / 0-)

                for the nurse?  She was humiliated, put down in her ability and duty to care for this particular child, and then had it rubbed in further by the hospital itself, with its "No Black People Allowed Because We Decided To Be Nice to Bigots Instead (which is against the law, teehee, but who's looking?)" sign.  Where is the hospital's duty to her?  Where is her colleagues', her friends', her supervisors' duty to her?  In all your and the others' comments, I see plenty of compassion for the bigoted parents, but none for this woman, who did absolutely nothing wrong and got public embarrassment as thanks.

                That is so incredibly wrong to me.  It is NOT OKAY to let bigoted people insist on making someone you claim to value unworthy, "less than", and that's exactly what happened here.  To me, it is an indication that she has no value really, to you or the people who made the decisions in the hospital.

                So often people will hide behind "but it's the law" in things like this, but here not even the law is on your side and the people who are willing to let black people be put down in any way if there's a white person who can be perceived to matter more, they're still around.  Gah.

              •  If I had a sick child... (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                I love OCD, Yahzi, IT Professional

                ...and my requirement was that I could shoot any nurse with an AK-47 if they so much as looked at my child funny... I expect sympathy and nothing else.

                The scene on November 6, midnight: Barack Obama holds up newspaper reading "Romney defeats Obama" as he heads to give his second term acceptance speech.

                by alkatt on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:43:56 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

            •  She is NOT defending him! (15+ / 0-)

              She is trying to explain how this works in an actual hospital setting, and people are calling her a racist for it.

              I completely agree with her. Am I a racist too?

              You must work-we must all work-to make a world that is worthy of its children -Pablo Casals Please support TREE Climbers for victims of child sexual abuse and exploitation.

              by SwedishJewfish on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 03:07:14 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Um, (4+ / 3-)

                I think you answered your own question.

                The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. - Elbert Hubbard -9.62/-8.15

                by GustavMahler on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 03:31:22 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  Yes. n/t (4+ / 3-)

                "Everybody wants to go to Heaven but nobody wants to die" --- Albert King

                by HarpboyAK on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 03:36:09 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  Thank you! (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Amor Y Risa, SwedishJewfish, grover

                I think only people who have received medical training are able to understand this issue completely. Personally I too don't see anything the hospital did as out of line. Everybody acted professionally IMO except the asshole dad and, yes, the nurse.

                Good thing this RN doesn't work at a nursing home or SNF for dementia patients. The amount of racism, slurs and general angry expletives I hear from patients there on a daily basis is pretty astounding. Frankly, if you work in health care you have to develop a thick skin.

                I'm astounded that a NICU nurse, someone who is exposed to sick and dying babies every day, doesn't have the emotional stones to handle one skinhead turd brain. Sheesh!

                •  Not even the note on the clipboard? (14+ / 0-)

                  That's the thing that pushed it over the edge for me.  That and the fact they continued to do this even when their own lawyer told them not to.

                  The NRA's response to calls for responsible gun law reform: noun, verb, Second Amendment

                  by Christian Dem in NC on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:00:15 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  The note on the clipboard (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Drobin, ladybug53, Dogs are fuzzy

                    Honestly, as I'm thinking about it, the only people who would see that are other health professionals. It's not like the clipboard is hanging up on the wall for all to see-it contains personal medical information.

                    As I said earlier, charting that a patient does not want caregivers of a certain race or gender is is not unusual, at least in long term care facilities.

                    It serves more as a warning-in this case, to protect other black nurses from dealing with this prick.

                    You must work-we must all work-to make a world that is worthy of its children -Pablo Casals Please support TREE Climbers for victims of child sexual abuse and exploitation.

                    by SwedishJewfish on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:36:15 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  They took the woman off the floor (3+ / 0-)

                      of the unit for which she was trained.  NOT OK! It seems we have travelled backwards in when it was perfectly acceptable for mild mannered racists to say "Wait your turn.", "Don't push ___ (fill in the blank) down our throats.", and "Be patient."  A little Jim Crow never hurt anyone, I guess.

                      Newt 2012. Sociopath, adulterer, hypocrite, Republican.

                      by tikkun on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 07:40:51 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  No, they didn't! (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Dogs are fuzzy, aseth

                        Did you read this somewhere else? All I read that she was reassigned. Typically, that means you are reassigned to care for a different patient. This happens all the time.

                        If she was literally kicked out of the NICU and put on a different floor, at the request of this jackass, that's a completely different story! Of course that would be an outrage, and I'd be kicking and screaming too. But all I've read is he made his stupid request that she not care for HIS kid, which unfortunately happens all the time, almost routinely, to nurses of every race. I have read nothing to indicate she was pulled from the floor.

                        You must work-we must all work-to make a world that is worthy of its children -Pablo Casals Please support TREE Climbers for victims of child sexual abuse and exploitation.

                        by SwedishJewfish on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 08:19:14 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  I just read the lawsuit myself (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        tytalus, Dogs are fuzzy

                        They did not take her off the floor. They reassigned her to a new patient in the NICU.

                        I'm leaning more towards the side of the nurse now that I've read the legal document. There is standing-it is against the law to request a different provider based on race.

                        In ANY other situation, I would be right on board saying "just take your business elsewhere". It's just a very different ballgame when you are talking about the NICU. If we are dealing with adult patients, they are responsible for making their own decisions...this child is powerless. He shouldn't suffer the consequences of his father's idiocy.

                        You must work-we must all work-to make a world that is worthy of its children -Pablo Casals Please support TREE Climbers for victims of child sexual abuse and exploitation.

                        by SwedishJewfish on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 08:49:38 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  The Hospital Errors In This Case (4+ / 0-)

                          from start to finish.  

                          From what other hospital employees have stated here, there needs to be a clear statement provided to all who request care from a hospital, that the hospital does NOT HONOR demands for changes of staff based on gender, sexual orientation, race, or religion. Such a statement needs to be clear and not buried under piles of legal gobbeldy gook.  Said statement should be signed by patients or the attendant adult prior to anyone being admitted to the hospital.

                          The possible consequence of a law suit for those demanding that the hospital comply with illegal requests should be clear and unambiguous. Then the hospital can honestly say they informed the signing party and that they complied temporarally because they were afraid of violent behavior on the part of the offending party.

                          Fear of violence is not an acceptable excuse but it is an understandable excuse.

                          Newt 2012. Sociopath, adulterer, hypocrite, Republican.

                          by tikkun on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 09:31:25 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  I agree with this but with caveats (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            poco

                            Cultural exceptions- Many Muslims have strong beliefs when it comes to gender and personal care. Muslim women will usually not allow a male provider to provide any care, especially feminine care. Muslim men have similar beliefs on receiving care from women.

                            Gender modesty should be respected to the extent possible. Those with a history of sexual trauma should have an opportunity to explain their triggers, what they feel comfortable with, and those should be honored to the extent possible as well.

                            Other than that, I'm all for it. Post it in the waiting room.

                            You must work-we must all work-to make a world that is worthy of its children -Pablo Casals Please support TREE Climbers for victims of child sexual abuse and exploitation.

                            by SwedishJewfish on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 09:51:39 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I'm well aware of those cultural issues (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            SwedishJewfish

                            for Muslims but Muslims also have a tradition of idendifying imperative women as a third gender.  It seems to me that a conversation between local medical facilities and Muslims toward establishing 3rd gender identification for medical women would be a worthy conversation.  It could be done under the auspices of the local interfaith dialogue.  Actually there is a very useful book written by a women in this area about religious considerations in medical facilities that we encourage all medical people to read.

                            Newt 2012. Sociopath, adulterer, hypocrite, Republican.

                            by tikkun on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 09:10:54 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                  •  The note on the clipboard was wrong (0+ / 0-)

                    ... which is why it was removed after the hospital's lawyer recommended its removal.

                    261.A wealthy man can afford anything except a conscience. -Ferengi Rules of Acquisition

                    by MaikeH on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 08:35:35 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                •  Exactly right. (8+ / 0-)
                  I'm astounded that a NICU nurse, someone who is exposed to sick and dying babies every day, doesn't have the emotional stones to handle one skinhead turd brain.
                  The majority of nurses would roll with it and do as the patient requests.  I can't begin to tell how many times I've gotten the GTFO look from a patient just because I was the wrong color.  I try not to take it personally and view it as part of being human with all that it entails.  
                  •  I get what you're saying and remain (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Munchkn

                    adamant.  I'm harsh, cold, uncaring when it comes to racists, rapists and pedophiles.  I'd have left the profession early on, obviously.  

                    I listen to a lot of horseshit too.  We all do.  Still have No concern for the health of anyone who refuses to be cared for by someone who might be gay or is a different race.  None.

                    I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

                    by I love OCD on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:37:39 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  And yet, in the instant case, (7+ / 0-)

                      The patient was a vulnerable infant fighting for his life.

                      Seems most people have forgotten about him entirely.

                      © grover


                      So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

                      by grover on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:11:58 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I know that there are nurses who excel (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Munchkn

                        with certain patients.  Let's say this nurse was one of those stellar NICU nurses, and the baby dies because it needed that little extra something she offered.  Maybe the father created a tragedy. Lotsa maybes here.  Maybe he should be told he's going to jail if he makes a fuss in a hospital full of sick babies.

                        I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

                        by I love OCD on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:55:23 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  It's equally likely (3+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          ladybug53, SwedishJewfish, aseth

                          that the nurse she was replaced with was that nurse. In that case, the father's racism saved his child.

                          As several posters have pointed out already, successful care here involves conveying large amounts of complex information to the parents on how they need to care for their baby after they bring him or her home. If you alienate them, they are much less likely to absorb all that, and that can lead to a tragedy or significant impairment later.

                          The only person who matters here is the baby. Period. Everything else is secondary, including the bigotry of the parents. If that bigotry needs to be indulged in order to give the baby the best possible care, then that is what needs to be done.

                          I don't like it anymore than anyone else here, but the life and health of the patient simply trumps other concerns.

                          "A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." - George Bernard Shaw

                          by Drobin on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 06:34:50 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Of course it does. No one's arguing that it (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Hammerhand

                            doesn't.  I'm making a hypothesis in reply to a hypothesis.  I'm also not willing to stop being angry that racism wins when the fear of offending/enraging the racist drives the decisions made.  that's the tragedy here.

                            I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

                            by I love OCD on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 07:06:36 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I'm guessing both nurses were extremely (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            SwedishJewfish

                            Competent.

                            One does not become a NICU nurse by doing the bare minimum.

                            I refuse to see this as an either/or between the two nurses. Another commenter here made a comment about how it's an "abrogation of professional standards" if a patient or his representative has input regarding his caregiver. That statement is at best hyperbole. (I actually think it's absurd.)

                            I prefer to think that unless shown otherwise, all of the NICU nurses there are licensed dedicated professionals.

                            © grover


                            So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

                            by grover on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 07:48:17 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  A nice run around the Civil Rights Act (0+ / 0-)
                            "The only person who matters here is the baby"
                            Apparently all the racists need is a baby, and then everything is fair game. Take a baby to the lunchcounter - put a baby on a bus - it's all good!

                            You seemed to have forgotten that someone else there matters: the nurse. Oh, and the law. Otherwise, why not just cut open the nearest nurse and grab a few organs for the baby - after all, the only person who matters here is the baby.

                        •  Or Worse....Another little one died (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          Debby

                          because of this man's behavior and the hospital's decision.  There is NOTHING ok about the hospital's decision.  

                          Newt 2012. Sociopath, adulterer, hypocrite, Republican.

                          by tikkun on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 07:43:08 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                      •  I'm sure the baby did not give two shits (3+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Debby, MaikeH, zett

                        about what race his nurse was.

                      •  Yes, this is a very tricky situation ethically (3+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Dogs are fuzzy, SwedishJewfish, zett

                        because every way of handling it that I can imagine will result in some (varying with the resolution) degree of harm to some uninvolved third party.

                        Don't reassign the nurse and you've got friction between parent and nurse in a situation where the baby's (third party) survival depends on a smooth interaction; there's nothing the nurse alone can do, regardless of how professional she is, to eliminate that friction. Do reassign her, and the continuity of care for up to 3 other babies (third parties) is needlessly disrupted unless there just happens to be a nurse who was freed up because all the babies under her care were just discharged.

                        If the special case (no other patient's care is affected) holds, then reassigning her subjects her to at least the subjective effects of racism and possibly to adverse employment consequences, though the latter could probably be mitigated by actions of the hospital administration. It also teaches the father that he can successfully bully people (and every time a bully gets compliance, he escalates).

                        Writing in all lower-case letters should be a capital offense

                        by ebohlman on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 07:41:35 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  My concern is that if you do nothing, (2+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          SwedishJewfish, aseth

                          You have a pissed off lunatic raging neo-nazi stomping around the NICU and its waiting room.

                          THAT scenario would be stressful to a lot of families, regards of their color or creed. . If those families are minorities or perhaps Jewish,  it could be extremely distressing at a time that THEY are particularly vulnerable too.

                          There are always consequences to every decision. And failing to act is a decision.

                          © grover


                          So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

                          by grover on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 07:55:00 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  What about this (0+ / 0-)

                            The action the hospital took might have pissed off the nurse. Now she's liable to turn into a lunatic raging Black Panther, and she has access to drugs! Isn't that even worse?

                            Oh, of course not, because in your world view the only people who shouldn't be pissed off are white males.

                            You might want to think about a visit to a hospital yourself; they may be able to help with that huge case of White Male Privilege you're carrying.

                •  I see your point, but she's suing her employer (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  SwedishJewfish, Sychotic1, zett

                  She didn't go off on the skinhead turd brain (maybe we should call him STB). She wasn't hurt economically but she was deprived of the work she trained so hard for and the dignity of having her employer back her up.

                  I can see more than one side to this, but respect is not a small thing!

                  Freedom isn't free. Patriots pay taxes.

                  by Dogs are fuzzy on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 10:35:30 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                •  Why not just call us ignorant fucktards? (0+ / 0-)
                  I think only people who have received medical training are able to understand this issue completely.
                  Fuck you too.

                  Apparently your medical training has prevented you from understanding the law. How smart does that make you?

            •  I hereby declare a new internet meme: Martin's ... (0+ / 0-)

              ... Law states that if a commenter resorts to an accusation of "whiteness" in order to silence someone they disagree with, they have automatically lost the debate.

              Penn State - Rug too small, dirtpile too big, not enough brooms.

              by WereBear Walker on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 06:30:41 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

      •  Suppose there is an emergency ... (15+ / 0-)

        If the hospital has a policy on race segregated care upon patient request, and the only nurse capable of first aid in some emergency happens to be African American, then would the Hospital be liable both if the baby is touched by a Black person and if the Black person ignored the baby?

        Just curious how this would work?

        •  Nursing is not a job. (6+ / 0-)

          It is a profession.  We have professional obligations, and a license to protect.  The litmus is "what would a prudent nurse do?"

          No prudent nurse would let a child die because of hospital rules.  You can find another job if they fire you over saving a life despite their rules.  You cannot easily get your license back for letting a child die when you knew it was the wrong thing to do.

          I'm living in an age that calls darkness light.

          by electricgrendel on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 02:36:27 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I agree with you, in principle, as a nurse. (8+ / 0-)

            I believe a patient, or in this case the parent because the patient is not able to render an informed choice, should have the right to chose which doctors and nurses deliver their care. However this issue has already played itself out at the circuit court level and it has been declared that the patient does not have a right to choose a provider based on race.  See here.

          •  Professionalism (4+ / 0-)

            Before reading your comments and those of other healthcare professionals here, I would have said that the professional response to the bigot's request was obvious: the hospital management should have stated that, as professionals, they would assign nurses based on a professional judgment on how to provide the best care for the patient without regard to other factors.

            I believe other professional organizations, such as schools or law and accounting firms, would be expected to decline requests to assign staff based on gender, race or other arbitrary criteria - that battle was resolved decades ago.

            However, it is interesting and important to note, and I respect, your insights and those of other healthcare professionals who accept race or national origin as a factor in staffing assignments.  Evidently, the compassion required for your work enables you to suppress feelings of hurt or resentment or outrage in such cases, and to expect the same as a professional response from others. This is admirable in a way, but also very sad.

            In the particular case of a NICU patient, where rapport between the nurse and parents is essential, I can understand that there is a rationale for tolerating the parent's bigotry. That has been an enlightening aspect of this discussion, and I respect you for persisting in your efforts to explain it.

            Nevertheless, I cannot escape the feeling that it was the responsibility of the hospital management to resist or deflect the bigot's request. I find it incredible that, according to many comments here, hospitals regularly accommodate patient demands regarding staff assignments.  I just don't see how it is professional to let the non-professional beneficiaries of healthcare dictate to the professionals when it comes to how that care is provided.

            •  Unfortunately, it happens all the time (0+ / 0-)

              I used to teach at a Historically Black college, and a student signed up for my class, assuming, based on my last name, that I was African American. When she saw me in person and found out that I'm not, she went to the dept. chair and complained (I thought that was pretty brazen, considering my boss was white, too).

              Now I personally would have told her that she would have to encounter white people at some point in her professional life and might as well get used to it right now. That's not what the boss chose to do, though. He transferred her to another section and told me later that the student had "a problem with white people" and would be attending a colleague's class. His reasoning, "Trust me, you don't want to deal with that belligerent woman every day."

              The following week, I ran into an AA colleague, who greeted me with, "By the way, thanks for sending Miss Attitude to me." I replied, "I didn't send her, the boss did, thank him."

              261.A wealthy man can afford anything except a conscience. -Ferengi Rules of Acquisition

              by MaikeH on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 12:15:15 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

      •  Hurley Medical Center receives federal funds. (27+ / 0-)

        It therefore has an even higher duty (if there is such a thing) comply with equal employment opportunity laws. This isn't just a private company that can write its own rules.

        Even if one were willing to bend over backward and say, sure, lets give the stressed Neo-Nazi family a break and grant them their request, the SIGN on the patient's chart is what puts this over the top.

        The SIGN is what makes this an oppressive workplace. Perhaps management could have quietly switched cases with another (white) nurse and no one would be the wiser. But that sign proclaimed to at least al the staff and depending how it was posted, possibly the public, that plaintiff was removed because of her skin color. It was extraordinarily demeaning to her... As well as any other African American nurses in the NICU.

        It created a hostile work environment.

        Management's behavior was atrocious and illegal.  

        Just because you don't agree with the law does not mean its not illegal.

        © grover


        So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

        by grover on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 02:35:14 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  The note in the chart is the bridge too far. (11+ / 0-)

          The nurse should have been pulled aside, told that she has provided fantastic care and is a valued member of the team. And while management does not agree with the sentiment of the family, the family has made a ridiculous request that can be honored through juggling staff.

          The note is what I have been curious about, and it seems like this is really a problem of how the issue is handled.

          I'm living in an age that calls darkness light.

          by electricgrendel on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 02:39:50 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yup. (7+ / 0-)

            Exactly.

            Patients can be extremely difficult, and every nurse, doctor and tech knows that. But the sign seems to indicate that the hospital agreed with the request.

            The complaint says it was displayed "prominently."

            It's extremely troublesome. If evidence supports the sign existed (testimony, photos, photocopies, etc), unless there are other facts unknown right now, the hospital would be well advised to settle quickly.

            © grover


            So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

            by grover on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 03:00:54 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Troublesome indeed (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Dogs are fuzzy, zett

              It's one thing if there was a note in the patient's chart, viewable only by people with need-to-know access (i.e. personnel who would be authorized under HIPAA to view the patient's medical records), and accompanied by a notation that this reflects a purely personal preference of the patient's guardian which, in the professional opinion of the charge nurse, the Director of Nursing, the Chief of Medicine and the hospital administrator, is not in any way related to the performance of professional responsibilities by Battle or any other member of the nursing staff.

              If it's accessible to anyone else, particularly people with the authority to make employment-related decisions (discipline, performance evaluation, shift scheduling, approval of vacation requests, etc.) regarding Battle or any other minority staff member, then that's already an adverse employment consequence (since it could unconsciously influence such decisions).

              Writing in all lower-case letters should be a capital offense

              by ebohlman on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 08:06:07 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  Yes, that's typically the way racial (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Sychotic1

            discrimination operates in the workplace. Don't leave any evidence out there that can be discoverable in a lawsuit. Use a pretext to fire or demote. Then after you discriminate, you can add insult to injury by insisting that the racial discrimination you practiced is only in the head of its victim.

        •  dunno about that hostile work environment (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          grover

          claim.  they'll probably settle, but that seems like a stretch to me.

      •  No, the racist bastard could take his spawn (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cazcee, pitbullgirl65, raincrow

        somewhere else.  There must be a mud pit somewhere, perfectly appropriate for this family.

        •  Cool. (6+ / 0-)

          So when I am not assigned to a patient because that patient has requested no male staff I get to sue?  You'd be cool with me suing because a female patient requested no men?  That's gender based discrimination.  It just happens to be that we are more sympathetic to that preference than we are to the loathsome sensibilities of racists.

          I'm living in an age that calls darkness light.

          by electricgrendel on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 02:41:17 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Friend, you're stretching a long way on this. (21+ / 0-)

            It really sounds like you're trying your damnedest to rationalize an acceptance of blatant racism.  I'm not sure that's your goal, but it's darn sure how it looks.

            •  No. I'm pointing out two things. (5+ / 0-)

              First of all- unless you have been on the floor and provided care, and seen how things are arranged to help people in their hour of need then a lot of your opinion on this is moot.  Decisions are made every day to accommodate requests that, on closer inspection, violate a lot of sensibilities.

              Second, there is no point in arguing this family should be forced to receive care for someone they do not wish to receive care from unless you're just arguing that racists should be forced to confront their bigotry no matter the context.  You're saying, literally, that a family with a child in NICU should have to deal with the distraction of their racism, as well as their sick kid, you know- just because you don't like their beliefs.

              I think the latter is ridiculous.  The request is ridiculous.  But ridiculous requests are handled all of the time in the hospital.  it's just a fact that some of the ridiculous requests stem from cultural preferences that are more respected than this family's cultural preference.  But that is a value judgment that does not belong, and is not required, for the implementation of care.

              I'm living in an age that calls darkness light.

              by electricgrendel on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 02:47:55 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  OK - I'll bite ... I am a healthcare professional (23+ / 0-)

                I've worked on the floor.

                I've supervised the folks that work on the floor.

                I've supervised the folks who supervise the folks that work on the floor.

                You are just so wrong on this it is hard to know where to start.  I suppose a SMALL argument could be made for adjusting one shift - until such time as the hospital leadership (perhaps the attorney who actually knew the law) spoke with the racist dad (let's not mince words - that's what he is in this story) and explained that there is no good and legal reason to shift staffing, and if he can't tolerate that, then he can find a hospital that will meet his wishes (good luck with that) ... and if things escalate in a manner that endangers staff or the baby, you get a court order banning dad from visiting.

                •  And would you do that for a family requesting (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  johnny wurster

                  female staff that were assigned a male nurse?  And if not, then why?  What is less offensive about choices made based on the color the skin than those made based on X and Y chromosomes?

                  If your credentials are what you state they are, then you are fully aware that no hospital would take up this issue based on gender discrimination, and you are fully aware that no hospital would bar a family member based on gender preference of staff.  You are also fully aware that any charge nurse would re-assign the staff to accommodate this request.

                  The note in the chart is what is ridiculous.  There was no reason for it to be handled in this way.  But the staffing reassignment, as you should well know, could be easily changed.

                  Also- what lawyer would tell a family to transfer a child in NICU over such a concern?  That is a legal disaster if something happens in transport.  I would be very interested to see the legal team of the hospital you worked for, because they are apparently much more steely than any other legal department I've heard of.

                  I'm living in an age that calls darkness light.

                  by electricgrendel on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 03:04:33 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Don't know if the lawyers I worked with were (13+ / 0-)

                    more "steely" or the ones you worked with didn't know the law.

                    As to your argument about race vs. gender ... the starting point is that the patient (in this case the baby) was not making the request.  Nor was the request based on any cultural norms that are considered socially acceptable (e.g., social anxiety/embarrassment about bathing, etc.).

                    And to me, one of the tests of effective management is how they work through these situations without running afoul of the law AND continuing to take good care of their patients.

                    Finally .... I am who I say I am.  And I am not questioning that you are who you say you are.

                    •  No baby, much less one in NICU, ever makes a (3+ / 0-)

                      request in my experience.  You may know otherwise, of course.

                      And I am interested in the notion that because this request is not social acceptable, confrontation is acceptable despite whatever negative outcomes may derive from that confrontation.

                      We do agree on the effective management.  The note in the chart is just absolutely indefensible.  Anyone with any management sensibilities could have handled this much, much more effectively.  

                      I'm living in an age that calls darkness light.

                      by electricgrendel on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 03:22:52 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                        •  Such thin skin for one who pointed out that the (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          johnny wurster

                          baby is not the one making the request.  That could not at all be seen as snarky or condescending?  You know that in matters of pediatrics that the care for the child is vastly influenced by the preferences of the guardian.

                          I'm living in an age that calls darkness light.

                          by electricgrendel on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:03:53 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Skin is thick. Just noting the lack of substance (7+ / 0-)
                          •  Yet you managed to dodge the question of how (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Drobin

                            a request being socially acceptable can violate the same civil rights protections at stake in this case.  I started out by saying I was going to take the role of devil's advocate.   That appears to have been lost in the rage chorus.

                            I'm living in an age that calls darkness light.

                            by electricgrendel on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:09:35 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I understand the role you chose to play (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            tikkun, madhaus

                            however, this does not grant you immunity when saying foolish things that bait people. Your urge to be incredibly understanding toward the racist fellow depicted in the diary seems to have diminished your capacity to understand the people here. Not surprisingly, your sense of understanding may ring hollow to some.

                            “Now, I can imagine the shocking headlines you’ll print tomorrow morning: 'More guns,' you’ll claim, 'are the NRA’s answer to everything!'" -- Wayne LaPierre

                            by tytalus on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:28:42 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  If you are interested, Meg linked an article that (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Drobin

                            shows that the choices of caregivers based on race have already been found to be unsupportable. Linky

                            And I think that you should have compassion for someone even as repugnant as this man.  Maybe that makes me a sap, but I guess it's good I'm in the field I'm in.  Everyone deserves understanding, even if you can't grant them what they are asking for.

                            I'm living in an age that calls darkness light.

                            by electricgrendel on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:36:39 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Well, that's fine (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            zett, tytalus

                            The hospital could have had compassion for the man as it gently explained why they could not comply with his request.

                            However, they didn't do that. They practiced racial discrimination. There is no excuse for that. None.

                          •  while I'm sympathetic to your point, grendel... (0+ / 0-)

                            you brought up "civil rights protections" and, iirc, men are not considered a protected class vis a vis gender discrimination.  That is, legally, it is not possible to commit gender discrimination against a man. The ethical argument you're making is interesting to me, but it doesn't hold water as a matter of law.

                            IANAL, so I might be off about this, but I don't think i am.

                          •  Gender is a protected class. (0+ / 0-)

                            The term "men" (as opposed to male) is a gender distinction.  The idea that a man would not receive protections based on a patient's chooses, but a person of color would is one of the philosophical kinks I find interesting in a discussion of this.  Furthermore, religious preference further complicates the issue.

                            As for the matter of this racist, the issue is pretty settled.  Linky

                            Of course, it would have been pretty easy to determine this with just a little bit of Googling.  Instead of have a diary about how angry the diarist is, and then a comment section that is an amen chorus of rage.

                            I don't participate in this community that often anymore, and I am coming to find out why that is.

                            I'm living in an age that calls darkness light.

                            by electricgrendel on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:39:24 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Actually, you are way, WAY off. The gender of ... (0+ / 0-)

                            ... the victim of gender discrimination is irrelevant. Yes, it's rare that men in the workplace are discriminated against by women, but it can & does happen.

                            Penn State - Rug too small, dirtpile too big, not enough brooms.

                            by WereBear Walker on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 06:54:21 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Huh? (0+ / 0-)

                            The protected class in the Civil Rights Act, Title IX, etc. is "sex". Men are legally considered to have one.

                            Writing in all lower-case letters should be a capital offense

                            by ebohlman on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 08:21:00 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Yeah, sorry, you are (0+ / 0-)

                            Just one example:

                            http://www.eeoc.gov/...

              •  No. (21+ / 0-)
                You're saying, literally, that a family with a child in NICU should have to deal with the distraction of their racism, as well as their sick kid, you know- just because you don't like their beliefs.
                They can be as racist as they like, and what I personally think has no bearing on it.  They have the same right to hate Jews or gays or Democrats or aardvarks or whatever.

                I'm saying that if they don't like black nurses, they can take their child somewhere else.  Nobody is forcing them to do anything, because they have the choice here.  The hospital broke the law by not articulating this choice to them.  The nurse was given no choice.  She was publicly humiliated in order to make a racist asshole feel better about himself.  

                There is nothing defensible in the actions of the hospital or the racist.  I'm still unclear as to why you want to defend them.

                •  Exactly. The parents can be racist and practice (10+ / 0-)

                  those belief all they want and teach their newborn those beliefs, in their own home. They can hate blacks, Hispanics, Jews, gays all they want in the privacy of their own home.

                  But when they try to practice those beliefs in public, in a publicly-funded hospital, they have then encroached upon the rights of someone else. And remember, "your rights stop at where mine begin."

                  If a worker has legal protections against discrimination, against being treated differently because they are black, female, etc., then they can't be discriminated against, period. Not by the employer, and not by the employer trying to carry out the deeply-held beliefs of a client if those beliefs mean treating the worker in a protected class differently.

                  "Women shall not control their own reproduction." Fallopians 10:16 --Republicans' new Eleventh Commandment.

                  by BlueMindState on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:01:29 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                •  The problem in this case is that (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  aseth, blue aardvark

                  "taking the child elsewhere" isn't possible without significantly endangering the child; as I said in a few other comments, it appears as if all possible resolutions would adversely affect uninvolved third parties.

                  Writing in all lower-case letters should be a capital offense

                  by ebohlman on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 08:23:31 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

              •  You're making reasonable points. (0+ / 0-)

                The guy is despicable, but this seems more like an issue of poor handling by the hospital than anything else.

                I mean, I've had female doctors and nurses and generally get asked if I'd prefer to have a male doctor/nurse (if one is available) do anything that involves me taking my clothes off.

                28, white male, TX-26 (current), TN-09 (born), TN-08 (where parents live now)

                by TDDVandy on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 03:34:59 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  That "value judgment" has been made law (0+ / 0-)

                At least as I understand the law, which could easily be wrong.

                Freedom isn't free. Patriots pay taxes.

                by Dogs are fuzzy on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 11:08:36 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

        •  His "spawn"? (7+ / 0-)

          This is a child. A BABY. An innocent human being, who did not ask to be born to racist parents. A child who needs to be cared for, intensely, in the NICU. It is very dangerous to transfer a child to a different NICU...they need to be airlifted....I'm sorry, a mud pit????

          I don't even know how to respond to this!

          You must work-we must all work-to make a world that is worthy of its children -Pablo Casals Please support TREE Climbers for victims of child sexual abuse and exploitation.

          by SwedishJewfish on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 03:03:05 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yeah, speaking from anger isn't helpful is it? (9+ / 0-)

            My bad on the "spawn" thing.  It isn't the baby's fault and I should have hit pause on that.

            As for the mud pit thing though, I don't really have a problem with it.  At the very least, daddy belongs in one.

            •  It's ok, we all do it now and then (5+ / 0-)

              and I understand the anger, trust me.

              Nursing can be very, very difficult because you have to deal with people of every walk of life-and still provide them the best standard of care. As another nurse said above-it's not a job, it is a profession, and you take an oath, or a pledge, upon graduation. They vary, but this was part of mine:

              I pledge to care for my patients with all of the knowledge, skills, and understanding that i possess, without regard to race, color, creed, politics, or social status.
              I could tell stories for days about the kind of crap I've had to be subjected to by some patients and their families.

              I'm trying to get a job in corrections nursing right now, so I'm sure I will have to deal with all kinds of unpleasant people. But I also feel very passionately that even the "worst of the worst" are deserving of care when they become sick or wounded. And people do have the capacity to change.

              You must work-we must all work-to make a world that is worthy of its children -Pablo Casals Please support TREE Climbers for victims of child sexual abuse and exploitation.

              by SwedishJewfish on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 03:39:51 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  How would you feel (0+ / 0-)

          if someone suggested putting your child in a mud pit? Do you have any more suggestions about how to mistreat babies? Do you always condemn children to suffer for the bad behavior or bigotry of their parents?

        •  Spawn? (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Drobin, MaikeH

          You're talking about an actual infant who was fighting for his very life (and may still be suffering ill health as a result).

          I thought we were the compassionate people.

          Despise the father, of course. But the child isn't even a toddler yet.

          © grover


          So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

          by grover on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:29:35 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  You cannot be serious! (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        raincrow

        We must, indeed, all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately. B. Franklin

        by Observerinvancouver on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 02:51:46 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  So if someone owns a business and does not (12+ / 0-)

        want to serve blacks or gays or Asians that is OK also?  This father seems to care more about his biases than the health of his child, he took the time to be racist.  Allowing people to continue to insist on separate drinking fountains did not lead to integration and the decrease of racism.

        The hospital was out of line.  Especially when you post a sign.  Seriously?  There is no defense.

        When I did field work (and this was 20 years ago when biases against minorities were more coddled) my federal agency told people that they either received the help of whoever was sent out to help them or they could opt not to receive our help.

        Period.

      •  so basically you are condoning (7+ / 0-)

        the racism because it might add conflict? Who started the conflict in the first place.
        I would have told them they can transfer the baby wherever they wish and they would have to pay the cost.

        The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. - Elbert Hubbard -9.62/-8.15

        by GustavMahler on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 03:21:14 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Poor dears. (25+ / 0-)
        With a child sick enough to be in NICU, the family is dealing with enough
        .
        But they found time to display their racist tatoo and to make sure that their bigotry was enforced. Found time to embarrass a nurse and offend all the black workers at that institution...and all people of good conscience.
        Poor dears.

        Maya Angelou: "Without courage, we cannot practice any other virtue with consistency. We can't be kind, true, merciful, generous, or honest."

        by JoanMar on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 03:45:01 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Gotta disagree... (14+ / 0-)

        And I'm amazed that in this day an age a hospital would for a moment even consider honoring such a request.

        First, and most simply, it's wrong.

        Second, it sets up a vast potential for discrimination.  Imagine the chaos if this happened with any sort of frequency and the hospital was constantly reassigning nurses.  It might well eventually decide it is just easier to exclude minorities from work in the unit.

        Or maybe decide to assign nurses only to infants whose pigmentation matches theirs.

        Wouldn't that be lovely.

        It's not the job of the hospital to change their views...but it's  not their responsibility to cater to them either.  Their job is to provide care.  Period.

        Frankly, the compassionate thing to do would probably be to take the child away from the racist punk and spare him a childhood filled with abuse and ignorance.

        And if I'm insulting or stereotyping racist punks...I can live with that.

        "I don't give them Hell. I just tell the truth about them and they think it's Hell."

        by Notthemayor on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 03:46:04 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Exactly right. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Notthemayor, Sychotic1, schnecke21

          As to your second point, "Imagine the chaos...", we really don't have to imagine.  Just look at history.

          The "customer is always right" / "customer might be uncomfortable" thinking was used through most of our history to justify keeping minorities (and women) out of educational programs, management positions, high-paying jobs and professional careers.

      •  NO, the hospital has other AA nurses. NO (19+ / 0-)

        I have been an RN since '77. 16 years in critical care, including one 65 bed hospital (4 ICU beds).  It is simply not appropriate to let patients dictate care based on anything other than inappropriate or unsafe care by the health care provider.

        It is also to the hospital's quality of care interests to assign the nurses best suited to the patient needs. In critical care units the staff needs to be very skilled in many very technical instruments and machines. There are inevitably some who are the best with neuro patients, others with cardio pulmonary, etc. Using anything other than the nurses' competence and the infants' needs to match them is utterly asinine.

        The father is the one creating barriers to care. I am just stunned over the administrations response. Were they intimidated by the father? There is also a simple solution to his anxiety. He can leave the unit while the nurse is caring for the infant. Visits are often time limited anyway. Neonates can be different. I am very aware of the stress families are under and always went out of my way to help alleviate whatever we could.

        I've had families insist that male nurses or aides should not care for female patients. They were taught that more women are now doctors, and more men are now bedside caregivers. All are professional or they are fired. We have made adjustments on shifts where possible under some circumstances. It is usually with the clear limit that it works for that shift.

        We have had female nurses and male CNAs (and vice versa) go in together so the female patient has a female in the room when receiving care from a male. While I have never encountered the issue, a patient who has PTSD from sexual assault would be appropriate to accommodate. From what I have learned from my daughter, it isn't necessarily the sex of the person that triggers a PTSD reaction.

        Just got a call back from my almost 88 yo mom, who was also a critical care RN from the late 60's to '79, and other acute and long term care jobs until she retired at 70.  Neither of us have ever faced anything of this nature nor would we expect it to be tolerated like this. Unbelievable.

        "People, even more than things, have to be restored, renewed, revived, reclaimed and redeemed; never throw out anyone. " Audrey Hepburn "A Beautiful Woman"

        by Ginny in CO on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 03:53:40 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Hospitals serve the public. (9+ / 0-)

        They are regulated by the government in many ways, including non-discrimination in hiring and a non-hostile work environment. Bigots don't get to demand discriminatory practice from a hospital any more than from a restaurant or a motel or... well, you get the picture.

        Nobody's talking about changing this bigot's views. The subject is the imposition of his prejudice on the nursing staff by the employer.

        This guy's a whack-job and the nurse will win the lawsuit. Next time they just might have to tell the bigot "no."

      •  Because It Abuses the Nurse (9+ / 0-)

        This is a person who is prevented from doing their job solely because they are Black. We have rejected that kind of abuse, and prohibited it by law.

        If you don't understand why that's the iron-clad rule, it's incumbent on you to figure it out, not on anyone else to justify it to you.

        If that rule makes bigots' life harder, that's their problem. If it's harder during an especially hard time, that's also their problem. Who cares? Really: why do you care that their life is harder because of their bigotry? Why do you care more for them than for the nurse?

        "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

        by DocGonzo on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:01:44 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Fuck that shit. Let them go someplace else. (7+ / 0-)

        If they're dealing with "all that," shouldn't they be too busy to care about the skin color of the people trying to save their baby's life?

        YES WE DID -- AGAIN. FOUR MORE YEARS.

        by raincrow on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:09:52 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Completely disagree (5+ / 0-)

          The family may be complete scumbags.   But the infant child in need of emergency care has absolutely no opinion in that debate, they are the person who needs medical care, desperately.  

          We have no idea how that person's life will turn out at all.

          Telling them to leave may mean the death of that child, and open up the hospital to an insane amount of litigation.   That will never happen.  And even if the family are scumbags, it shouldn't happen.

          I don't want hospitals turning people away on moral objections.  Even if you just comissioned a crime, you're a hatemonger, or you're waiting your turn on death row.. I don't want a medical system that just says "go away".

          You treat the person in front of you.  

          And that isn't the racist family, it's the infant who is just the victim on all sides here

          Gandhi's Seven Sins: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Commerce without morality; Science without humanity; Worship without sacrifice; Politics without principle

          by Chris Reeves on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:41:19 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Case law already exists. (11+ / 0-)

        Link

        In May 2005, the EEOC obtained a $500,000 settlement against a nursing facility in Puyallup, Washington for alleged violations of Title VII, which included the all-White care management team preparing a care plan incorporating a White family's request that no "colored girls" work with the resident; tolerating frequent use of racial slurs, including reference to a Black nurse as a "slave;” assigning Black nurses to the night shift, while giving White nurses the more desirable day shifts; assigning Black and White employees to separate lunchtimes and lunchrooms; and twice-denying a Black nurse a promotion a staffing position for which she had several years of experience and was highly qualified. EEOC v. Central Park Lodges Long Term Care, Inc., d/b/a Linden Grove Health Care Center, No. 04-5627 RBL (W.D. Wash. consent decree filed May 13, 2005).

        "Mitt Romney looks like the CEO who fires you, then goes to the Country Club and laughs about it with his friends." ~ Thomas Roberts MSNBC

        by second gen on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:30:02 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  The passage you bolded doesn't stand alone (0+ / 0-)

          It has to be taken in context, which in this case consists of a general pattern of conduct by management that clearly demonstrates racial animus (several of the offenses went beyond "hostile working environment" and into "unfavorable terms and conditions of employment" and "denial of equal compensation").

          Writing in all lower-case letters should be a capital offense

          by ebohlman on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 08:58:15 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Many nurses go into nursing (0+ / 0-)

        specifically to work in the NICU.  As you can see, the hospital reassigned the nurse out of the area she wants to work and is qualified to work due to a racist piece of human excrement.

        When you go to the hospital for treatment you don't get to ask for the white doctor or the male doctor.  Same with nurses and if it ever changes I am going to ask that no gingers get to work on me (I have red hair) and then everyone who comes in I am going to examine their hair.
        :p

        "I watch Fox News for my comedy, and Comedy Central for my news." - Facebook Group

        by Sychotic1 on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 08:50:08 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  One minor correction (0+ / 0-)

          she was not transferred to a different floor. She was reassigned a different patient in the same NICU.

          Also, the patient can ask for or deny a provider if they have legitimate basis and their request can be reasonably accommodated. The reason is most commonly gender-if someone has cultural reasons, or psychological ones (i.e. a female patient with a history of being raped may not be comfortable with a male provider). Race is not a legally acceptable basis. Sometimes it's honored-usually at the request of the person being discriminated against, and done out of concern for the nurses safety but that is a decision made on the floor. The fact that the choice was made by higher ups is what makes this case unusual, and gives this nurse grounds to file suit.

          You must work-we must all work-to make a world that is worthy of its children -Pablo Casals Please support TREE Climbers for victims of child sexual abuse and exploitation.

          by SwedishJewfish on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 11:59:33 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Any way we can give this racist prick his 15 mins (17+ / 0-)

    of fame?  You know, name, address, place of work, etc.  Hospital should have told him to hit the road if that's what he wants and find some other hospital.  What if he would have requested no WHITE nurses care for his baby?  Would that request have been granted?  

    Political compass: -8.75 / -4.72

    by Mark Mywurtz on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 01:26:06 PM PST

    •  I didn't find it.... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Shockwave, tikkun

      So far, the only court documents I found were the complaint (linked above), and Entry of Appearance (Basically a letter a lawyer sends to the court stating he/she is representing the defendant) for the defendants' counsels.  

      Perhaps as more motions and pleadings are entered, the scumbag's name will make it into the record somewhere.  

    •  Probably. (3+ / 0-)

      Hospitals are inherently risk adverse.  Also, if there is a solution for even a ridiculous request then why not work with that solution instead of creating another problem in an already complicated situation?

      If it came to be that there was no way to avoid assigning the African American nurse to the child, then that would be one thing.  But if there are other patients available for her, and a nurse that meets the family's bigoted needs then this is a fight that doesn't at all need to be fought.

      The patient is the focus.  He or she must always be the focus, even when it is tempted to make a war over some stupid person's bigotry.

      I'm living in an age that calls darkness light.

      by electricgrendel on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 02:04:49 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  question: is the hospital for profit or nonprofit (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        drmah

        if nonprofit is it publicly owned or is it a 501C3 or some other configuration?

        •  I don't see why that would matter. (3+ / 0-)

          Except for the placing of the note in the file.  Unless there are an inordinate number of charge nurses, then this could have just been communicated in charge report.

          Eyes would have been rolled, and another very sick little baby would have benefited from this nurse's expertise.  And the racist family would not have had to deal with a conflict of their beliefs at a time when they are not open to change but instead dealing with a familial crisis.

          I'm living in an age that calls darkness light.

          by electricgrendel on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 02:12:15 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  vastly different rules and vastly different chain (4+ / 0-)

            of command if it is profit or non profit and different points of contact depending on if it is 501C3 or publicly owned.

            I spent 20 years dealing with hospitals and their misbehavior and each configuration changes the rules under which you operate

            •  Patients have a right to be involved in their (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              cris0000, ladybug53

              care.  For minors, parents make care decisions.  They have vast leeway in this regard.  I don't see what rules could possibly be in place that dictate that a patient could not make this request.  It's repugnant, but unless the hospital would be forced to bring in outside nurses to accommodate the care, or if there are rules saying that a NICU nurse assigned to a child will follow that child for the duration of his or her care without change, then I don't see why the hospital would even get involved in this fight.  They can just assign another nurse.  The African-American nurse will have another child to care for, and a distracting conflict for the family will be avoided.

              I would also be more sympathetic to the "they can go somewhere else!" if this was anything other than a child in ICU.  You can't just pack up Junior's things, get in the car, and drive to the next town.  The kid was stuck in place without a very very expensive transfer.  

              I'm living in an age that calls darkness light.

              by electricgrendel on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 02:23:41 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  Who needs Google and Wikipedia when all you (0+ / 0-)

          want is a good flame war?

          Hurley Medical Center is a teaching hospital serving Genesee, Lapeer, and Shiawassee counties in eastern Michigan since December 19, 1908. Situated in Flint, Michigan, it is a 443-bed public non-profit hospital.[1] The emergency department is a level I trauma center.[2]
          http://en.wikipedia.org/...

          Writing in all lower-case letters should be a capital offense

          by ebohlman on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 03:37:23 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Forget the why. Just accept: it's ILLEGAL nt (5+ / 0-)

        "People, even more than things, have to be restored, renewed, revived, reclaimed and redeemed; never throw out anyone. " Audrey Hepburn "A Beautiful Woman"

        by Ginny in CO on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:24:38 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  "If there is a solution, why not work with it"? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        schnecke21

        And, if there's another school those black children can attend, why insist that they go to the "white" school? And, if there are schools for black kids that are in need of teachers, why not have all the black teachers assigned to those schools?   And if there are hotels available for blacks in need of an overnight stay, why not insist that they use those hotels and leave all us white folks in peace at our Hiltons? Indeed, why not have hospitals for those black people to use and to provide jobs for those black nurses?

        WTF are you saying?  Can you hear yourself?

        The good we secure for ourselves is precarious and uncertain, is floating in mid-air, until it is secured for all of us and incorporated into our common life. Jane Addams

        by Alice Olson on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 05:23:31 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  He would feel no shame as he (3+ / 0-)

      would just as quickly become the darling of the right wing media.

      Maya Angelou: "Without courage, we cannot practice any other virtue with consistency. We can't be kind, true, merciful, generous, or honest."

      by JoanMar on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 03:51:53 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Be forewarned—if you hit the CNN story link (26+ / 0-)

    some of the comments are jaw-dropping in their virulently racist ignorance and stupidity.

  •  Wish I could say (17+ / 0-)

    that I was surprised...but crackers are the morans they are.

    Bet he wouldn't object if he himself were bleeding to death and there was an African-American willing to give blood to save his sorry life.  Bet ya the ranch on that one.

    Irony takes a worse beating from Republicans than Wile E. Coyote does from Acme. --Tara the Antisocial Social Worker

    by Youffraita on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 01:29:27 PM PST

    •  wanna bet he would turn down black blood? (5+ / 0-)

      As late as the late 60's blood was segregated

      •  MASH did an episode like this. . . (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        pitbullgirl65, raincrow, Munchkn, tikkun, zett

        A soldier was concerned he would get the "wrong" blood.
        It was an interesting episode

        •  I posted a link to a MASH site in another reply n (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          raincrow
        •  What made it interesting was the docs also (5+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          raincrow, Munchkn, tikkun, ebohlman, NeverThere

          taking a bit of trouble to stain that soldier's skin a darker shade, as part of their lesson, and staff talking around him and to him like he was obviously a 'colored' person with stereotypical interests, concerns, appetites and abilities. Of course, sadly, the racist soldier did believe the blood was changing him into a black person, at least until the gag was revealed and he was taught his lesson.  

          Good thing it wasn't blood from a female donor, or he'd have developed effeminate manners or PMS along with the racist 'traits'.  Oh shoot, now that I mentioned this possibility of males getting blood from a female donor thing, we'll have the crazies demanding same-gender blood to keep their body genders 'hormonally pure'.

          Next we'll have a blood donor crisis amongst Republicans caused by their kind not donating enough blood to keep their Republican views 'pure' and unaffected by 'liberal' blood DNA. Careful there conservatives, liberal teachers might have donated that blood.

          When life gives you wingnuts, make wingnut butter!

          by antirove on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:09:23 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Female donors (0+ / 0-)
            we'll have the crazies demanding same-gender blood to keep their body genders 'hormonally pure'.
            "You already got a little over half your DNA from a female donor. Next, please."

            Writing in all lower-case letters should be a capital offense

            by ebohlman on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 09:03:29 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  OMG You called him a cracker!!!!1111 (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      raincrow, Munchkn

      I'm surprised the hand wringers haven't condemed you yet.
      I am so ashamed and sad of this country and its' sick "tradition" of hate.

      "I have to go... There are two gay men knocking on my door asking me if I need any abortions or marijuana. Diary, this may be my last entry" Facebook hysteria after 2012 election

      by pitbullgirl65 on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:41:01 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's the whole world, really. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        pitbullgirl65, Aquarius40

        Look at the racists and neo-Nazis crawling out of the cracks and crevices of Europe, look at the hell that is Russia, all the different hells that are the war-torn parts of Africa, ethnic strife in Pakistan, Iraq, on and on and on.

        YES WE DID -- AGAIN. FOUR MORE YEARS.

        by raincrow on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:03:49 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  I am getting SICK TO THE TEETH of these asshats (26+ / 0-)

    I mean, we're back in the damn 50s.  The 40s!  What, guy, do you think the evil nurse is gonna smear Teh Icky Negro all over your precious moppet?

    Back in the 60s, Harlan Ellison used to say words to the effect that, if there was actual justice in the world, some of these thick-headed bigoted morons would find themselves in desperate need of an organ transplant, and the only compatible donor would be a black man.  I can't believe we're not only still dealing with this shit, but we're dealing with it a lot more lately.

    Sorry.  Sorry.  Didn't mean to go off.  But... gaaaaaaaah.

    -----
    Tom Smith Online
    I want a leader who shoots for the moon. The last time we had one, we got to the moon.

    by filkertom on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 01:34:46 PM PST

  •  What he did was despicable but.. (15+ / 0-)

    I truly think what he did was completely despicable.   It offends me that this still goes on.

    At the same point, from the hospital's perspective this may have been the smart move to just give into the guy.   You have to provide them medical care, and if you think he's a lunatic I don't know if they were concerned about the potential safety of the nurse.

    I would need a lot more details.   There have been instances in health care facilities I've worked that nurses were removed because of their weight, how they looked at a patient, their age.. in general, if a patient asks, the hospital for the most part will give in.

    They do it because they don't want complications or a fight with patients that extends or harms the service to other patients.

    What this guy did was sick.  And I hope his kids get a shot at a decent life with him not a part of it.   Because I picture a bad end... no matter how this turns out.

    Gandhi's Seven Sins: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Commerce without morality; Science without humanity; Worship without sacrifice; Politics without principle

    by Chris Reeves on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 01:46:02 PM PST

    •  It seems like a lot of extra paperwork for everyon (5+ / 0-)

      to bow down to a stupid request. The staff is already worked to death, why do they have to work harder because an asshole is being an asshole?

      Since when is the party that embraces all the top tenets of Satan allowed to call the God shots?--wyvern

      by voracious on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 01:50:36 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Maybe the next step is separate rest rooms (13+ / 0-)

        for coloreds?  Why are we going backwards?  Are racists really deserving of PC arguments?  WTF is wrong that this is being defended on this site?  

        I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

        by I love OCD on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 02:38:31 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Please note, some of us are not defending (3+ / 0-)

          This racist POS.   He doesn't deserve our defense.

          That having been said, hospitals and care facilities have a very tricky go of it.  And if you don't think seperate rooms for racists occur now in many facilities you aren't dealing with reality.

          I've worked with hospitals and retirement communities.  And we had patients who specifically requested they be in special rooms, etc. etc. etc.

          It's sick.  It's despicable.   But the problem for a facility becomes that a potentially violent or unruly patient can be a real problem.  A real problem not just for the nurse and caregiver, but a problem for other patients.

          They are sick people with a horrible situation.  And there are times you can do something about it.   But there are some fights that put your staff and others at risk.

          If I knew a patient was a flaming racist with a potentially violent tendency, how insistent would I be to put an African American nurse on his duty?  

          It's not as simple as saying "he has to accept it".   I would be putting a nurse in a position where she could potentially be physically harmed.

          I've seen nurses "shift off" or trade places with other nurses in order avoid patients who hate them for all sorts of reasons.  Patients who won't tolerate male nurses; patients who won't deal with asian nurses.

          I can't tell you how often I've seen people refuse female doctors in favor of a "real" doctor.

          It's horrible.  It's truly horrible.  

          But if you force the situation you don't do much to change their mind.  And you potentially put at risk the health of the caregiver and other patients.

          It's a tightrope.  A big, terrible tightrope.

          Gandhi's Seven Sins: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Commerce without morality; Science without humanity; Worship without sacrifice; Politics without principle

          by Chris Reeves on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 02:55:20 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I'm aware that there are serious issues here. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Aquarius40, tikkun

            I honestly don't give a shit.  Cant have a black nurse put you on a bedpan, lay in your waste a few hours. Might be deucational if someone reminds you that peeing while black used to be difficult enough to cause similar issues for a lot of black people.

            No sympathy, no tolerance, no acceptable excuses.  I know it's a harsh position.  I don't care.  

            I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

            by I love OCD on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:22:08 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I can respect this (6+ / 0-)

              I really can.  And I agree with it, as a human being.  

              I guess I've just seen too many horrible things to think that just saying "fuck off" to an adamant racist in this situation benefits the patient (the child) other patients in the facility, or the nurse.

              It solves our need for social justice, that's true.   And on that front, I agree with you.

              But if I was the administrator, and the next day I learned a nurse was beaten so badly she had a ruptured eye socket:

              http://www.sfexaminer.com/...

              I might have second thoughts.

              I've sat through ER shifts and have watched nurses take swings from angry patients, I've been onboard after fights stopped all services in a health center, and I've seen good patients denied service because a tense situation prevented nursing staff from going down the hall to help people who really needed it.

              On a social level, I completely agree with you.  And I wish I could say "lay there".   But having read the notes, this was an agressive male who was in an emotional state with a child in NICU.  He was an adamant racist (and a horrific person too) who became very upset at the concept of an African American handling his child.

              That's horrible.  He's a  horrible person for feeling that way.

              But if I were a parent who had another kid in that NICU, who didn't have that issue at all, I would not want the hospital to take a stand at that moment and create a situation that could screw up services to children in that room.

              The hospital may have been in a no-win.   If they had said "no, we won't do it" and he beat a nurse up, would she have sued for putting her in a hostile work environment that endangered her safety?

              I am very conflicted about this whole case.   10+ years working with medical communities tells me this is not nearly as straightforward as so many in this diary wish it was.

              Gandhi's Seven Sins: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Commerce without morality; Science without humanity; Worship without sacrifice; Politics without principle

              by Chris Reeves on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:34:43 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Yes. (4+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                tmservo433, Drobin, aseth, SwedishJewfish

                And a punch in the face or chest is no joke.  I've been struck by patients, yelled at, called names, and I still do my job to the best of my ability.  If it means I have to back off and let someone lighter complected than me to finish the job so be it. At the end of the day it is the PATIENT who needs to be cared for, not my sensibilities.

              •  I appreciate your position, I know it's a powder (6+ / 0-)

                keg.  I can't get past the history enough to care.  How many black patients get bumped down the list in ERs because they probably can't pay, might be gangbangers, whatever?  That happens and we all know it.  

                How many black kids are in jails for doing what gets a white kid a fine?

                Fuck him sideways.  Just can't care.  

                I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

                by I love OCD on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:51:55 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  I'm not worried about him (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Mathazar, I love OCD, SwedishJewfish

                  And I'd agree with you, fuck him.

                  But in an NICU that may have numerous children in it, do I want to do anything that could risk them being in a bad situation where the service to those unwitting patients is compromised while I battle it out with a lunatic?

                  I don't know who that benefits.

                  In the end, I would take the shift rotation and then call CPS the moment the child gets out.

                  But I appreciate all of those who are arguing on this because this is one of those times I don't think any answer in any direction is really "the right" answer

                  Gandhi's Seven Sins: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Commerce without morality; Science without humanity; Worship without sacrifice; Politics without principle

                  by Chris Reeves on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:54:30 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I don't think there is a right answer, (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    tmservo433, SwedishJewfish

                    the only answers seem to be to accommodate because it's too risky not to. I get that, I'm so appalled by it that I'm not able to go with logic or common sense.  I hate being controlled by other people's craziness and that's what this feels like to me.  Some prick is so unhinged about race we have to let him have his way so he won't hurt people.

                    Put him in jail if he so much as crosses his eyes.  End of problem with violent racist.

                    I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

                    by I love OCD on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:11:03 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

    •  But they did this when the hospital lawyer (33+ / 0-)

      TOLD them that they'd be breaking the law by honoring that request.

      And I agree that hospitals should grant patient requests where possible--but there's got to be a line where the hospital has to say, "We can't go there."  You'd think blatantly racist stuff like this would be over that line.

      The NRA's response to calls for responsible gun law reform: noun, verb, Second Amendment

      by Christian Dem in NC on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 01:53:19 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I agree (4+ / 0-)

        I'm reminded of an incident in a surgical center I do work in, where a lunatic made some pretty outrageous claims about two of the nurses who were perceived of as "gay" (neither was) because he didn't want any male nurses.

        The surgicenter asked them if they'd opt out, and they did.  

        The way this was handled was wrong.  I'm saying, though, it's very complex how these things go down.  Hospitals also have to worry about patients and lunatics harming the services of others.  

        I am not in any way justifying what the racist lunatic did.   I'm just not sure how well this works the other way; if the hospital refuses him and he blows up and beats down a nurse after warning them, would they be liable?

        I think that's a tricky gimmick.

        I think it was 6 years ago, not too far from here, a doctor was beaten up over a similar matter though it was all about her attitude which got her beaten in a parking lot at NKC hospital.

        It's tricky when you deal with lunatics.

        We just wish there weren't more lunatics/evil people

        Gandhi's Seven Sins: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Commerce without morality; Science without humanity; Worship without sacrifice; Politics without principle

        by Chris Reeves on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 01:58:55 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  You just never know. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          tmservo433, WereBear Walker

          Dad was in the hospital a few months ago. His roommate seemed like a nice guy, but then went nuts as time for dad to leave arrived. Guy barricaded the door to keep staff out and dad in. There's dad, fresh from knee replacement and only a couple months after triple bypass, too weak even to sit up on his own let alone anything else... It was a bad scene.

          You do NOT fuck with lunatics in the hospital when others are possibly in harms way.

          It's safe to trust a sane person with the keys to nuclear weapons, but it's not safe to trust an insane person with the cleaners under the kitchen sink. The answer is not more gun control, it's people care.

          by JayFromPA on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 03:49:38 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  This is an issue hospitals have to deal with (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ladybug53, JayFromPA, Dogs are fuzzy

            Legal or not legal, if enforcing something risks the potential medical care of others - which is absolutely possible, are we prepared for the consequences?

            Like I said, my wife and I are an interracial couple.  I would be hugely offended by this idiot.   But if I had a child in that NICU, I would want absolutely nothing that could create drama, a fight or an obstruction in care for all the other kids in that NICU.  

            Gandhi's Seven Sins: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Commerce without morality; Science without humanity; Worship without sacrifice; Politics without principle

            by Chris Reeves on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:43:29 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Totally agree. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              JayFromPA, aseth

              That's where I am with my comments.

              Time and place. The NICU is not the right time and place. The racists created a problem; the hospital chose not to escalate it, but rather sought to defuse it.

              Maybe their execution of that choice left something to be desired, or maybe it didn't, but I'm not about to say it was the wrong choice.

              I'm all for fighting racism (see my other comments), but not on the backs of premature infants. They have other battles to fight.

              -9.63, 0.00
              "Liberty" is deaf, dumb, and useless without life itself.

              by nobody at all on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 07:37:19 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  Bottom line, it's illegal. Period. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          tmservo433, tikkun, Sychotic1

          The situation you describe with the male patient is acceptable although when you don't have a female caregiver on the shift to assign, they have to accept a male or do without. And I have been on a night shift when another floor had 2 male nurses and 3 male aides. The house sup was checking on the possibility of exchanging aides. Would have created almost the same problem on the other floor.

          The hospital is not liable for illegal actions of a patient or family member. They do have pretty solid security teams and parking areas with video cams and voice activated security systems. Even with that, any and all employees are encouraged to get a security escort to their car when the want one. Unfortunately health care workers, especially women, have been targets for attacks with race having little to do with a significant percentage.

          "People, even more than things, have to be restored, renewed, revived, reclaimed and redeemed; never throw out anyone. " Audrey Hepburn "A Beautiful Woman"

          by Ginny in CO on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:16:36 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I do understand (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Ginny in CO

            It's a very tricky boat.  The hospital isn't responsible for the actions of an unruly patient.   In this case, the patient is in the NICU and not speaking for themselves, it's the parents, etc.

            And what they do can't be said to look bad on the hospital.   But I think most healthcare workers will tell you this is a nightmare scenario.  An amped up patient with a child in intensive care.. combined with the fact he's a lunatic (in this case, racist).  

            If you honor his wish you're bowing to something insane and wrong.  I completely concur.   If you don't, you're risking him potentially disrupting medical care for a lot of innocents who have nothing to do with the situation at all.

            The number of nurses who have underwent beatings in hospitals and parkinglots/etc. has risen.  You're right, it's not often race (many times, it's rape/inappropriate attractions/other anger issues/drug seekers)   But hospitals move as far as they can with cameras and security methods to try and prevent those.

            I see this situation and the problem I have is that I wasn't there.  I don't know enough about it.   Having read over all the notes now, it seems as though this was a situation that could have turned bad, in a hurry.  

            What would I have done.   I don't know.   If I really thought a family could explode and put at risk the care of others in NICU, I don't know any reaction I would have would be appropriate or would satisfy all parties.

            Damned if you do.  Damned if you don't.  Legal or illegal, if you were another family with a child in that NICU and services were extended disrupted due to a kerfluffle caused by a racist asshole, I doubt you'd care

            Gandhi's Seven Sins: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Commerce without morality; Science without humanity; Worship without sacrifice; Politics without principle

            by Chris Reeves on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:18:38 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  They are trained for difficult people (0+ / 0-)

              I wonder if someone with de-escalation skills got called in to reduce the guy's temperature.

              Freedom isn't free. Patriots pay taxes.

              by Dogs are fuzzy on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 11:31:27 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Given that the hospital is in an area that (5+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              NancyK, tmservo433, zett, schnecke21, ebohlman

              does have a high AA demographic, so they had several AA nurses in the NICU, the other infants and families were more likely to have their care disrupted by staff assignments that don't work well. I really understand that you probably know a hell of a lot more about health care workers and being a patient than most people.

              There are a lot of issues involved in this scenario that are far worse than whether the Dad can't be reasoned with. The staff assignments are a royal nightmare on regular floors. When you get into critical care and NICU, it is hell. The problem being something you may have heard: acuities. The patient's acuity level is basically an estimate of how much care they need. That can be because they are very sick or they just need a lot of help with feeding, turning, toileting. The former needs more nursing time, the later more aide work. You have to balance every assignment so the patients get safe care. Critical care patients are even tougher to get good acuities on. They crash, they start coming out of the woods. NICU babies are the worst. So on top of all the assignment issues the charge nurse has to factor into a task that can make or break the shift, the race restrictions are added. You really do not want to go there.

              Another piece I haven't mentioned is JCAHO certification. The hospitals pay for this and it ain't cheap. Another headache every 3 years. They comb the charts, the policy books, storage, every last aspect of patient care, employee work and documentation. If something like this happens between reviews, the hospital may get a special one. Losing certification might not happen - it would likely be a probationary judgement with another review in 6 mo to a year. The issue becomes dire if Medicare or other payers decide to pull the provider's status to receive payment for care. That would really impact care for all patients, even extending into the community.

              My perspective is that hospitals deal with stressed out, inappropriate anger from patients, families and visitors all the time. You get people who are very accustomed to dealing with the situations, people who are scared out of their wits, and the situation is resolved with out breaking laws. Been there, done that for all kinds of situations and providers. The absolute worst was a home care case. I informed the son he had been reported to Adult Protective Services and for the safety of our nurses we were discharging his father from care.

              Had another patient who was a sentence from being kicked out. He signed the behavior contract and admitted if we pulled out he had nowhere to go - no other agency would take him back. No further problems.

              I seriously question if they made any attempt with this guy. Get him and the mom in a room with a patient advocate,  minister, case manager, social worker, ethics rep, nurse manager, CNO, NICU doc and the lawyer. He would fold, especially if any one of the hospital crew was AA. There are people who take the hatred to violence in other settings where they feel empowered. Being in a situation where ticking off the rest of the staff taking care of your kid is a possibility, almost always becomes what we call a 'come to Jesus' moment.

              "People, even more than things, have to be restored, renewed, revived, reclaimed and redeemed; never throw out anyone. " Audrey Hepburn "A Beautiful Woman"

              by Ginny in CO on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 11:33:24 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

      •  next time I am in the hospital I am going (15+ / 0-)

        to demand all my nurses are also strippers. It makes as much sense and could help with my cardio

    •  wonder if NAACP is aware of this? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tmservo433, tikkun

      Think I will drop them a link at national just to be sure

    •  Not to mention (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tmservo433, pitbullgirl65

      if I were the nurse, I probably wouldn't want to care for this prick's kid, and he just gave me an out.

      28, white male, TX-26 (current), TN-09 (born), TN-08 (where parents live now)

      by TDDVandy on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 03:20:02 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Given that Hurley is in Flint (25+ / 0-)

    —a city with a large African-American population—this is going to be a gigantic public relations disaster for that hospital. And all due to their inability to set firm standards for what constitutes valid requests by patients and their families.

    If somebody refuses medical care from black Americans on the basis of race, then they should take their dumb cracker asses to the local KKK-run hospital. Good luck with that.

    •  Thank you for pointing out the demographic. (6+ / 0-)

      I was aware the unit had other AA nurses who apparently have not decided to complain formally, yet.

      The mix of races in the unit can change shift to shift. Having that restriction in making assignments make a really difficult  charge nurse function even more of a nightmare.

      "People, even more than things, have to be restored, renewed, revived, reclaimed and redeemed; never throw out anyone. " Audrey Hepburn "A Beautiful Woman"

      by Ginny in CO on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:05:49 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Hospitals Needs To State Clearly and Visibly (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Sychotic1

      in an admitting statement They they DO NOT HONOR ANY REQUESTS FOR STAFF BASED ON GENDER, RACE, CLASS or SEXUAL ORIENTATION.  

      It should be signed by every person who is admitted or their legal guardians. It should not be in the middle of a lot of gobbledy gook.  It should be clear and unambiguous and then restated  aurally to make sure everyone is clear on the policy.

      Newt 2012. Sociopath, adulterer, hypocrite, Republican.

      by tikkun on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 08:21:13 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  This made me think of... (41+ / 0-)

    The "What Not To Wear To An Emergency Room" photo that made the rounds some time ago...

    Photobucket

    These racists are just to dumb for their own good...

    "Do you realize the responsibility I carry?
    I'm the only person standing between Richard Nixon and the White House."
    ~John F. Kennedy~

    -7.5,-5.8

    by Oldestsonofasailor on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 01:48:43 PM PST

  •  Hard to imagine how the hospital will justify (20+ / 0-)

    their behavior, especially after receiving contrary advice from their attorney.

  •  This happens frequently in private practices (10+ / 0-)

    and unless you are the Dr/admin, you need to comply with the patients wishes. Usually where I live (Las Vegas), it involves older patients who do not want a Hispanic/black looking person touching them.

    Even more frequent are gender specific requests when they don't involve any gender/genital issues in treatment provided, and that seems to be an acceptable request, so I don't think its that shocking that it happens with race.

    It is really fucking stupid, and racist but you have to deal with it usually, unless you have a good doc who will call them on the ignorant BS. I think that it would be a great idea if one had to sign before any treatment that one understands that you cant pick/choose race/religion/political affiliation. Then this winner could have just picked his completely white provider (wherever that would be), and go there.

    •  Sadly, I understand gender specific requests ... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      zett

      ... since so many women have been the victims of violence at the hands of men. It's been a very long time since I was in a hospital, but I'd probably have a big issue with any overtly Christian caregiver, what with PTSD issues around abuse by the Church for being gay.

      Penn State - Rug too small, dirtpile too big, not enough brooms.

      by WereBear Walker on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 07:25:05 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I am going to play devil's advocate here for a (11+ / 0-)

    moment.

    I am a male nurse.  At least twice I have been asked to trade patients because someone assigned to my care did not wish to be taken care of by a male.  Should I view that as a reasonable request, or should I call sexism?

    How is it any different for this man to request no AA's when people request no males at a much more frequent (those still very rare) rate?  And if we are expected to cater to that aspect of the patient's culture, why should we not cater to a racist's culture?

    Is it because the racist's culture is not as popular as the preferences of an elderly Latina?  Or female Orthodox Jew, or female Muslim?

    There is a sense of catering to a patient's cultural needs so as to not create barriers between the patient and the care he or she needs.  That is a core of nursing as practiced and as taught in school.  I find this man's choices repugnant, but it seems to be in line with how care is delivered currently.

    What I am truly interested in is the nurse manager saying that the choice was illegal.  People have a right to choose who cares for them.  I wonder if not assigning the nurse was illegal, or if putting the note in the chart was illegal?

    I'm living in an age that calls darkness light.

    by electricgrendel on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 01:58:29 PM PST

    •  Or female Orthodox Jew, or female Muslim? (9+ / 0-)

      So you're elevating pure undiluted racism to the level of religious preference.

      •  You're making a value judgment. (4+ / 0-)

        I do not agree with the person's bigotry.  I also do not agree with religious separation of sexes.  I think it is silly, personally.  But professionally I will honor those religious requirements, because that is my job.

        My value judgment of the preferences of the patient are completely, utterly and totally irrelevant.  I am there to help heal a patient.  If I can accommodate a request without placing an undue burden on staff, then I will do so.  I may dislike it, but that's part of nursing.

        You are there for the patient, and for the family.  And some times just keep your mouth shut, smile and do what you can for them.

        I'm living in an age that calls darkness light.

        by electricgrendel on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 02:08:39 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I hope you'll never regret not saying (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          lunachickie, tikkun

          something when it's too late. There are times for prudent keeping you trap shut, and then there are times that you should step forward and say something, because it's the right thing to do.

          You would not have done so in this situation, but you should have an idea now, that there are others that whole heartedly believe that this was an act of racism, and therefore should not be condoned.

          Politifact, the lie of the year is. - Yoda

          by gakke on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 03:08:30 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  There is a place to keep your trap shut and (0+ / 0-)

            that is around sick and injured people, esp children.

            While on the job, I care for my pt's first and foremost. & that means eating a lot of crap and keeping my mouth shut. The crap, including sexual harassment from family members, that I have ignored could fill a book.

            But the child's care is all that matters.

            The hospital cannot discriminate in hiring, but the guardian of a child can discriminate in who they want caring for their child.

            This father is an asshole and a racist, but our job is to care for the child first and foremost.

            WE NEVER FORGET Our Labor Martyrs: a project to honor the men, women and children who lost their lives in Freedom's Cause. For Jan: Right-to-Work/Right-to-Live(?)

            by JayRaye on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:48:57 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  Well said. nt (0+ / 0-)

          WE NEVER FORGET Our Labor Martyrs: a project to honor the men, women and children who lost their lives in Freedom's Cause. For Jan: Right-to-Work/Right-to-Live(?)

          by JayRaye on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:37:37 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  agree (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Joy of Fishes, electricgrendel

      Personally I think the dad is a scumbag, but I don't see how a nurse can afford to make such a judgment on a professional level. Also, unless the black nurses were denied shifts or lost pay or something, I'm not sure I understand why they are suing the hospital. Patients need to have a lot of leeway in dictating their own treatment.

    •  the problem is that the assumption is that (8+ / 0-)

      racism is seen as this man's cultural needs.  Does this mean White America has a culture of racism (hey, if that is your argument, far be it from me to argue with you)?

      •  Really? That's what you got out of that comment? (1+ / 1-)
        Recommended by:
        emelyn
        Hidden by:
        Grizzard

        Because that seems particularly, willfully dense.

        Yes- the man has cultural needs just like everyone else.  Those needs are expressed in preferences.  How you leaped from this man's cultural needs to a broader White culture kind of reveals the sort of faith in which you are arguing.

        Again- I don't agree with the guy, but considerations are made for other, more palatable preferences.  It just seems like there is a desire to rub this guy's face in his stupidity when really all that should be a matter for concern is the care of the patient and family.

        I'm living in an age that calls darkness light.

        by electricgrendel on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 03:36:58 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I note that you used brought up how we as (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          lunachickie, tikkun

          a society, acknowledge and honor other people's religious and cultural needs in such contexts.  Since this is true, then it follows that had the father been allowed the same courtesy based upon his racist beliefs, then it would follow that it was due to his cultural background.  If this is true, then it would follow racism is a part and parcel of the culture of White America.

          I would point out that racism has been used in insanity defenses as a mental defect (w/o success to date, being treated somewhat like the homophobic defenses for killing a gay person) so it would not seem to be a part of acknowledged current White culture.

          For a parallel I would point to a pt's religion and culture being taken into account for his diet while inpatient.  While it is common to offer a kosher or halal diet for example, I would hardly be able to insist on French cuisine on the grounds I am a Francophile and worship French cuisine.
          To request exceptions have to have some basis in reality.  For example if he were a member of the World Church of the Creator, would all of his exceptional demands be met?  

        •  You have baked a pretty pie here (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Munchkn

          I am surprised you are not being served donuts.

          We the People have to make a difference and the Change.....Just do it ! Be part of helping us build a veteran community online. United Veterans of America

          by Vetwife on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:33:38 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Racism isn't a cultural preference (0+ / 0-)

          that can be accommodated. It's against the law.

    •  Well (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Lost and Found, Sychotic1

      If we're playing devil's advocate here, let's point out that the patient in this instance is the newborn baby, not the father.

      28, white male, TX-26 (current), TN-09 (born), TN-08 (where parents live now)

      by TDDVandy on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 03:18:10 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  That is not sexism (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lunachickie, Munchkn

      nope, sorry.  Men still have male privilage in this country, hell the world! and what you're saying reminds me of white people claiming reverse racism.

      catering to a patient's cultural needs

      This has got to be the most p.c term I've heard for racism.

      The man is a scum with a symbol of hate tattooed on him.
      Odds are his kid will be the same.

      "I have to go... There are two gay men knocking on my door asking me if I need any abortions or marijuana. Diary, this may be my last entry" Facebook hysteria after 2012 election

      by pitbullgirl65 on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 03:38:03 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  You are wrong. Plain and simple (6+ / 0-)

      because you can't order the color of skin to put out a fire, arrest a thief, be a 911 giving direction...All emergency situations.  This was racism and one cannot demand or request an institution to break the law.  Ever hear of the civil rights laws?  

      We the People have to make a difference and the Change.....Just do it ! Be part of helping us build a veteran community online. United Veterans of America

      by Vetwife on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:29:59 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I saw the heading but hadn't read the story.... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    phonegery, cazcee, raincrow, jan4insight

    Thanks for bringing this sorry story to our attention.
    I wonder if the baby's mom had input into this decision.

    I share a birthday with John Lennon and Bo Obama.

    by peacestpete on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 02:01:36 PM PST

  •  I am reminded that the African American doctor (10+ / 0-)

    Charles Drew was allowed to die because there was not enough "black" blood available after he suffered an accident
    http://en.wikipedia.org/...
    Irony is he pioneered the field of transfusions and his research saved thousands or more WIA Allied military personnel.

    The myth of blood segregation killed him and persisted in many states until well into the 1960s.

    Nothing surprises me.  Recently, not only have Waffen reenactments become popular and not only is Nazi memorabilia a hot item on auction but even counterfeit is now a collector's item as I recently saw a lot of faux Nazi stuff auctioned off.  What amused me was the Nazi swastika was backwards, which ironically returned the symbol to its correct Indian orientation  

    •  The wikipedia article you link to (0+ / 0-)

      actually refutes what you say about Dr. Drew, quoting one of the other (black) physicians in the auto accident, who said about the hospital "We all received the very best of care."  And that the nature of Drew's injuries were such that "even the most heroic efforts couldn't have saved him" and in fact a transfusion would have only killed him sooner.

      Which is not to say that prejudice didn't kill other black patients.

      •  the point is that the blood was segregated (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Munchkn, tikkun

        and remained segregated for a decade afterwards.  
        Also, you have to read the other physicians' comments in context. it would have been a very brave or brash African American who would have criticized a hospital in those days who planned on having a medical career.  Even today, the medical culture remains the same where a whistleblowing doctor or a doctor who "outs" a hospital soon finds himself in front of the state medical board

        •  I understand the context (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ebohlman, zett

          But the other doctor was very specific about the nature of the injury precluding transfusions being an option.

          The context is what makes the story very understandable, and I have not the tiniest sliver of doubt that many innocent people died because of evils like "segregated" blood.

          Still, I'd rather be reality based, and the link you offered says the opposite of what you suggested.  Follow the footnote, and the quote from Dr. John Ford is from a 1983 book (of mental puzzlers!) by Omni writer Scot Morris.  Dr. Ford was interviewed more than 30 years after the fact, well into his career.  If you have evidence that Dr. Drew's injuries would have responded to a transfusion he was denied because of the ignorance and prejudice of the day, I'd love to see it!  But I think we should instead look to all the bad practices that truly demonstrably happened.

  •  Childbirth (4+ / 0-)

    is by far the most profoundly human experience I've ever had. The most human scene. The idea of harboring such inhuman thoughts in the face of that is totally alien to me.

    And that's to say nothing of the hospital management. In a way their behavior almost disgusts me more. A dumbass cold bigot's right to sound off and be a dumbass cold bigot is enumerated in the First Amendment to the Constitution. It's horrible, but it's one of those things. And his rights end with his words. Maybe the hospital thought in some twisted way that they were upholding this right by following through on that pig's request, maybe not. Whatever their motives they took Tonya Battle's civil rights and flushed them down the toilet.

    Personally I'd think "go f*ck yourself" would be the automatic response to such a request.

    "My God, it's full of stars"

    by Hammerhand on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 02:08:19 PM PST

  •  As a nurse in a busy trauma center (14+ / 0-)

    I've seen this happen a few times. My hospital is in a very liberal city and the cases I'm thinking of weren't about black nurses but about Asians. Once the patient had  a problem with our Asian staff because of negative experiences in Viet Nam. Another time the guy was just a racist pig who used slurs against our staff members.

    When these things happened the patients got white nurses primarily because we were protecting our staff from abuse. One could force the issue but this would be exposing non-white staff to discrimination.

    And as the nurse above said we often  give only male or female nurses to specific patients depending on circumstances. Some women don't want a male nurse catheterizing them and some male patients are a little too friendly with female staff. Good floor management takes all these things into account.

    And of course I don't support the racist asshole who made this request. But I also wouldn't want to subject one of my beloved co-workers to his abuse.

    "All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us." JRR Tolkien

    by leftymelz on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 02:18:25 PM PST

    •  small note: for a vet, having a VN nurse (5+ / 0-)

      could be a trigger point for PTSD.  That is quite a different kettle of fish from racism I would think, though I am not able to articulate it here

    •  A friend of mine was training for nursing and (6+ / 0-)

      did her obligatory stint at a nursing home.  My friend is Korean by birth, American by adoption. She had one female patient with dementia who screamed bloody murder every time she entered  the patient's room because she was sure my friend was Lucifer himself coming to take her Hell.  

      My own mother was raised by racists, but never displayed any racist tendencies until she became elderly and infirm.  I was shocked, appalled and embarrassed by the things she said more times than I care to remember before she died.  She seemed particularly upset by Hispanic people--a group of people with whom she had very limited personal experience.  Strange.  

      These examples are people with dementia, of course.  One assumes that the father in this case has full use of his faculties.

      I have nothing but admiration for most health care workers.  They see people at their very worst and care for them anyway.        

      Metaphors be with you.

      by koosah on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 03:22:55 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  This is perfectly understandable (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Chas 981, Aquarius40, tikkun, Debby

      What takes this case beyond the pale is the sign on the chart warning everyone on the floor that African American staff have to stay away from this baby.

      That creates a hostile work environment.

      I wouldn't do that to my co-workers either.

      History should teach humility and prudence, but America doesn't seem to learn. I've never seen a virgin who loses her innocence so often. -- Gordon Wood

      by stormicats on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 06:22:32 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  the baby (the one receiving treatment) (0+ / 0-)

      isn't a racist with 'issues'.  It is the father, who the nurse doesn't have to touch, which is an entirely different issue.

      If he was abusive to the nurse, I would just make sure that he wasn't allowed in the NICU during her shift.

      "I watch Fox News for my comedy, and Comedy Central for my news." - Facebook Group

      by Sychotic1 on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 09:28:50 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  My message to them. (5+ / 0-)

    Went just. like. this.

    You embarrass our state, country, and humanity in general when you cater to racism. Tell that racist "father" to take his hate out to the street and leave it at the door next time. Better yet, take his child away and give it to a loving gay black couple so that it will grow up strong, open-minded and capable of so much more than just hate.
  •  This POS is spreading his GENES around? (4+ / 0-)

    Blech! Brain bleach!

    Thanks for publicizing this story. Hope his name and picture make it out there.

    It's here they got the range/ and the machinery for change/ and it's here they got the spiritual thirst. --Leonard Cohen

    by karmsy on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 02:31:57 PM PST

  •  Maybe it's time, instead, to call (13+ / 0-)

    Child Protective Services and have the little tyke removed from an obviously unsuitable home.

    The whole thing reminds of that time a guy wanted a birthday cake for his son, named Adolf Hitler Campbell, and CPS ended up taking away the boy and his two sisters: JoyceLynn Aryan Nation and Honszlynn Hinler Jeanne.

    I swear, some people just need to wake up and smell the 21st goddamn century.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

    •  This (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jan4insight, tikkun

      Is the true solution.   Get the unruly out of the hospital and put in notice to CPS.

      Gandhi's Seven Sins: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Commerce without morality; Science without humanity; Worship without sacrifice; Politics without principle

      by Chris Reeves on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 02:56:19 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Reasons it's an unsuitable home (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Canis Aureus, zett

      - Poor impulse control. Anyone with a fully functional cerebral cortex would have realized that it was the wrong occasion to display racism.
      - Threatening conduct.
      - Lack of concern for the child's welfare.

      Freedom isn't free. Patriots pay taxes.

      by Dogs are fuzzy on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 11:48:17 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  This may not be a popular opinion.... (15+ / 0-)

    but a few things to consider.

    In nursing school, I did a lot of clinicals in long term care and hospice. There were in fact patients that requested no black caregivers. It usually wasn't written in the chart, but it was an understood thing. At one of the first clinicals, I was teamed up with my classmate, who was black, and we were assigned to help get an elderly gentleman up for the day. The moment he saw us, he screamed "get that n**r out of here!" and as we were walking away in shock he sad "I'll keep the blonde, but not the n**r"

    We were furious, and went straight to the clinical instructor. She said she would have a meeting with everyone at the end of the day, and in the meantime, we were given a new patient (incidentally, an elderly black man who was a joy to care for)

    At the meeting, we had a lot of tears and a lot of anger-especially because my nursing school was predominatly POC. But ultimately, we all came to the consensus that these people were a product of the times they grew up in, and there wouldn't be much point trying to change their minds-they were dying, and our job was to provide comfort during that time. And we had an entire floor full of patients who could have their care disrupted or delayed if one patient was being non-compliant and refusing care because he or she had a black caregiver. It was a matter of picking your battles.

    I have had a patient who refused to be cared by white caregivers too-and for very understandable reasons in her case, as she was a black woman who had been terribly abused by a white family while working as their domestic helper. I had lovely conversations with her, and she was not hateful towards me at all-quite the opposite. But when it comes to total care, the dynamic is different-you are put in a position of vulnerability, even powerlessness, and for this woman it was just too close to her experience, and she only felt comfortable if it was done by other black women.

    There are also some women who refuse male caregivers, and men who refuse women. When I was in the hospital recently, I had to request no men be involved in my treatment, unless there was a woman present, and that any procedure that required me to get undressed or to be touched was by a female. I explained my reasons for it which had nothing to do with sexism, to say the least, and they were more than happy to comply. One of the male CNA's and I even had a running joke about it throughout my stay.

    These are obviously quite different situations than what happened here. This was nothing more, IMO, than some white power azzhole asserting his authority because he could. And in any case, he wasn't even the patient.

    But it is a tricky issue. If the hospital is adequately staffed, then sometimes the best thing to do is just reassign the nurse to a different patient and chalk it up to some people just being ignorant fools. In a NICU especially, you need things to run as smoothly as possible, and no matter how much of a racist prick the father is, his baby is the patient. He needs to be surrounded by calm, and to be held by his parents and allowed to bond if possible. So you pick your battles, and if that means tolerating the wishes of the occasional bigot for the good of your patients, sometimes that's just what you have to do.

    Unless this nurse was docked pay, or suffered any damages as a result of her reassignment, I don't think she has a basis to file suit. But I'll leave that to the courts to decide.

    You must work-we must all work-to make a world that is worthy of its children -Pablo Casals Please support TREE Climbers for victims of child sexual abuse and exploitation.

    by SwedishJewfish on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 02:50:20 PM PST

    •  A lot of this is valid. (6+ / 0-)

      I've seen it in assisted living facilities (both in-laws and parents).  For that generation, it pretty much is what it is, and you can't always be certain of state of mind or the presence or absence of dementia.

      I think, though, that probably isn't the case here.  Most Greatest Generation men probably aren't likely to be new dads.  ;)

    •  I'd be a little bit more understanding (13+ / 0-)

      if it weren't for the note on the clipboard, and the fact they did this even after being told they couldn't.  To my mind, those two factors are what pushed this into lawsuit territory.

      The NRA's response to calls for responsible gun law reform: noun, verb, Second Amendment

      by Christian Dem in NC on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 03:12:21 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Agreed. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        raincrow

        Unfortunately, the customer is always right.  Unless the customer is wrong.

        28, white male, TX-26 (current), TN-09 (born), TN-08 (where parents live now)

        by TDDVandy on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 03:15:57 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  True, I think I might have skimmed over that part (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Mike Taylor, EAColeInEmporia

        an inconspicuous chart note is understandable, but it sounds like it might have been more....

        In any case, like I said, it's up to the courts. I do feel for her on a personal level though. I know how attached NICU nurses are to their patients, and that had to be traumatic.

        Also just FYI, people are calling me and other nurses racists in the comments for expressing similar opinions...maybe something you could address as the diarist? I don't think that's cool. At all.

        You must work-we must all work-to make a world that is worthy of its children -Pablo Casals Please support TREE Climbers for victims of child sexual abuse and exploitation.

        by SwedishJewfish on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 03:46:24 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I think you have to make your own (3+ / 0-)

          argument as to why your opinions are not (1) racist; or (2) if not racist, arguably as corrosive as racism.

          One way or the other, I would be interested in how far down the slippery slope you believe this behavior (racist or non-) should be allowed to go, e.g., should the  overwrought, frightened family of gravely ill emergency cases be allowed to walk in with a list specifying multiple physical, religious, ethnic, etc., disqualifications for providers to which the hospital must kowtow?

          YES WE DID -- AGAIN. FOUR MORE YEARS.

          by raincrow on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:51:30 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I know my arguments aren't racist (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            zett

            Maybe inadvertently they seem to be...I'll allow for that I guess. But i know what my intent was, and what I believe.

            It's just getting annoying.

            I've made it very clear that the issue at hand here is a very unusual case, one that involved significant risk to the life of a medically fragile infant, as well as others.

            As to your scenario-absoulutely not, and I would honestly tell them to GTFO of the room and allow us to take care of their loved one. If they don't have power of attorney they have no real say anyways, and power of attorney doesn't allow any kind of racial litmus test,

            My view is generally that adults are autonomous and I would never be OK with an adult patient (without brain damage or dementia) demanding a white nurse. He could leave AMA for all I care.

            Gender issues are different, based on reasons I've talked here about exhaustively.

            And people who are mentally incompetant, delusional, combative, they get a pass. They are not in their right mind, obviously.

            And with kids-parents are always the hardest to deal with. But it's important to have a good rapport with them anyways, because being in a hospital is already a scary experience for a child. Also, if child abuse is suspected you don't want to tip them off because they might just run off and take the kid with them. It happened at a hospital where I used to work.

            You must work-we must all work-to make a world that is worthy of its children -Pablo Casals Please support TREE Climbers for victims of child sexual abuse and exploitation.

            by SwedishJewfish on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 01:08:22 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  I think the key to this situation is (6+ / 0-)

      that the patient was not the racist.

      Politifact, the lie of the year is. - Yoda

      by gakke on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 03:18:54 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  heh... right. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        jan4insight

        We're missing the fact here that the crazy racist dude is not the patient here, it was the newborn baby.

        28, white male, TX-26 (current), TN-09 (born), TN-08 (where parents live now)

        by TDDVandy on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 03:23:07 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  I understand this (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Munchkn

        I mentioned it in my comment. But he has a legal right to participate in the care of his child. And it is important for parents to be part of that care in order to form primary attachments or else their development can be disrupted. Kangaroo care, especially when provided by one or both parents, can literally save a child's life:

        http://my.clevelandclinic.org/...

        Again, especially with preemies you want a calm, smooth, low tension environment. These are very delicate little lives that hang in the balance.

        You must work-we must all work-to make a world that is worthy of its children -Pablo Casals Please support TREE Climbers for victims of child sexual abuse and exploitation.

        by SwedishJewfish on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:15:00 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  "female in the room for female exams" (4+ / 0-)

      That's a fairly common practice.  Is it discriminatory to men?  

      •  It's actually to protect the male clinician (5+ / 0-)

        from allegations of sexual misconduct, and to prevent it from happening in the first place. That's standard for GYN exams. And no, not discriminatory IMO, just good practice.

        For physical exams though, no female is required in the room but I requested one. I was still very uncomfortable and would have preferred a female do it herself, but it had to be done by the surgeon (who was a man)

        I have pretty severe PTSD, so situations like that are extremely triggering. It is usually not a problem at all--most providers are very compassionate. I did have one awful experience in an ER where the doctor told me I just had to be a "big girl" and get over it. I can't remember what I did, but it was violent and got him out of the room, and I promptly left the hospital AMA with 3 broken ribs, a broken nose and a concussion.

        You must work-we must all work-to make a world that is worthy of its children -Pablo Casals Please support TREE Climbers for victims of child sexual abuse and exploitation.

        by SwedishJewfish on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:03:17 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  I would suggest... (6+ / 0-)

      That there are significant differences between dealing with elderly dementia patients who grew up in a markedly different world and the particulars of this situation.  

      The correct response, I think, would have been simply to tell the father "We can't do that but if you have a problem please feel free to look for another facility."

      That poor kid has a long and ugly childhood ahead.  Personally, I'd recommend child welfare look into the situation now before it is too late.

      "I don't give them Hell. I just tell the truth about them and they think it's Hell."

      by Notthemayor on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 03:55:08 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's not that easy with a NICU baby (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Mathazar

        Transferring a medically fragile child is extremely dangerous.

        Also the man who screamed about n*** in the room did not have dementia.

        These situations happen. You deal. You do what is best for the patient. In this case, it was in the patients best interest that he stay in the hospital where he had been receiving medical care, and get kangaroo care from at least one parent. If the fathers intransigence made that impossible to provide as long as he had an African American nurse, then you don't really have a choice. The well being of the baby is what matters the most.

        You must work-we must all work-to make a world that is worthy of its children -Pablo Casals Please support TREE Climbers for victims of child sexual abuse and exploitation.

        by SwedishJewfish on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:44:10 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  "Please feel free to look for another facility." (4+ / 0-)

          Actually, I suggested that in the expectation that the father would have backed down and not actually done so.

          But who knows?

          You're smart, you're far more experienced in this area than most people reading and commenting, and your heart is in the right place.

          So it's certainly possible that you are right.

          The closest I've ever come to this situation was telling a customer "No, I can't promise that you won't have any black staff assigned to your banquet."

          Not exactly comparable.  But...

          I think this sets up a vast potential for discrimination.  If this happened with any sort of frequency and the hospital was constantly reassigning nurses, it might eventually decide it is easier to exclude minorities from work in the unit.

          Or decide to assign nurses only to infants whose pigmentation matches theirs.

          My heart goes out to this nurse...and this unfortunate child.  Of that much I am sure.

          "I don't give them Hell. I just tell the truth about them and they think it's Hell."

          by Notthemayor on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 04:56:20 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  what if there was only black nurses on a given day (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          zett

          who would care for the child? The time or two that I worked in a NICU there were not alot of nurses the units were smaller than the well baby units we had 3 cribs for the critical babies and maybe 10 for the low birth weight.

           I know on a given day the black nurses would out number the white nurses. Would the black nurses be reassigned and white nurses with no exprience in the NICU be brought in?

          •  No, that would be different (0+ / 0-)

            In that case, "dad" should be told that the ONLY way to accommodate his request would be to transfer his child to another facility, which would be very risky and possibly result in the child's death.

            And then hope and pray he cares more about his kid than his bigotry, because if he decides to go that option, there is nothing you can do to stop him. And it is unfair to put the child's health at risk like that.

            (All IMO, based on how I believe I would handle it were I the charge nurse.)

            You must work-we must all work-to make a world that is worthy of its children -Pablo Casals Please support TREE Climbers for victims of child sexual abuse and exploitation.

            by SwedishJewfish on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 06:44:22 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  I teach medical genetics. A&P, etc, at a nursing (8+ / 0-)

      school and I'm sorry, but just because something is easier to do does not make it the correct thing to do. It is easier to violate someone's civil rights than do the correct - and legal - thing.

      Rosa Parks was just being re-assigned to a seat - she didn't lose money from it.

      •  And I'm sorry but teaching nurse in a classroom (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Mathazar, grover, Amor Y Risa

        while a valuable profession, is not the same as actually being on the floor.

        This is not about what is EASY. You think telling dad to go fuck himself wasn't the first instinct of 99% of the nurses on that ward? It is about what is in the best interest of the patient. In a case like this, the health and safety of this medically fragile child come before ANYTHING.

        (BTW-Rosa Parks wasn't just randomly "re-assigned a seat", it was a planned protest a long time in the making, and she was the one chosen to be the catalyst...she was an activist for a long time before the Montgomery Bus Boycott. Just pointing it out since we are talking about civil rights)

        You must work-we must all work-to make a world that is worthy of its children -Pablo Casals Please support TREE Climbers for victims of child sexual abuse and exploitation.

        by SwedishJewfish on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:02:42 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I wasn't talking about Rosa's decision (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          SwedishJewfish

          on where to sit, rather I was talking about the re-assignment by the driver - just as the decision to allow this discrimination to happen was a re-assignment form an individual in power. This distinction is important. That is the analogy.

          The only reason she was able to plan something like this is because the system was wrong - as the system was wrong in this case.

          I don't have to be on the floor to know what is right .

          •  Another apt analogy is the problem (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            zett

            with docs not washing their hands before working with central lines. This is a huge problem and responsible for 250,000 deaths ever year (according to the CDC). We teach about this problem in the classroom, so why does it still happen?

            It happens because when you're on the floor it is very difficult to question those in authority over you.  It is the culture that is the problem, and the culture that needs to be changed. And the only way that changes is if we speak out against these problems and do something about them, instead of just behaving as one is expected to behave due to social pressure.

  •  why did hospital managment kow tow to him? (11+ / 0-)

    there is no excuse

    they should have told him that nope he was out of luck on that and he couldn't remove his child from said hospital since it was in ICU till its life was no longer in danger or the police would be called if he tried and charged with endangerment to the babies life

  •  I question this guy's competency to parent. (nt) (8+ / 0-)
  •  The kid should be so lucky to have a black nurse (6+ / 0-)

    probably the best care he'll receive in his trauma filled 'lil redneck childhood....

    "Fascism is attracting the dregs of humanity- people with a slovenly biography - sadists, mental freaks, traitors." - ILYA EHRENBURG

    by durrati on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 03:08:07 PM PST

    •  I wouldn't want to take care of (6+ / 9-)

      the brat.  Odds are it'll grow up to be a knuckle dragging pos like its parents.

      "I have to go... There are two gay men knocking on my door asking me if I need any abortions or marijuana. Diary, this may be my last entry" Facebook hysteria after 2012 election

      by pitbullgirl65 on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 03:10:43 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Words almost fail me (10+ / 0-)

        You are talking about a child! A baby. Do you always talk about children like that or just those whose parents you don't like?

        •  They completely fail me (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Lost and Found, Mrs M

          And it has two uprates so far.
          I'm out of here.

          You must work-we must all work-to make a world that is worthy of its children -Pablo Casals Please support TREE Climbers for victims of child sexual abuse and exploitation.

          by SwedishJewfish on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 06:26:36 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  This is definitely a troubling field of comments. (9+ / 0-)

            Growing up as a "half-breed" in Utah, this is exactly what the parents of racists did to me.

            Because of my parents and their choices, I was not just expendable but in fact an aberration that probably oughtn't be allowed to grow up. A worthless waste of space. The sins of my parents were my sins, too, and it was presumed that (a) they were the only people on earth that would bother to care for someone like me, (b) myself and my parents were as polluted and disgusting as one another, and (c) because of my parentage, I was unlikely to ever be worth the skin I was printed on.

            Now people here, on a supposedly liberal website, are doing the same thing to the "children of racists."

            The children of racists are just kids. They don't know about race, they don't know about politics, and they have real emotional and medical needs.

            Like it or not, like their parents or not (people sure didn't like mine in the area where I was raised), kids love and bond with their parents, and they do so innocently.

            This kid will grow up in an American society that today deeply frowns on racism. He/she has a good chance to overcome it.

            Unless, of course, people like some of the commenters here treat this kid the way they're treating him/her in their comments—in which case the kid will be much more likely to grow up a racist that hates socialist, communist, impure "libs." Because all the kid will know growing up (as I did) is that those people hate me and those people also hate my mommy and daddy.

            That's called teaching a kid to hate. I speak from experience. And it's a bit shattering to see it going on on DailyKos, where the example is supposed to run counter to all of that.

            -9.63, 0.00
            "Liberty" is deaf, dumb, and useless without life itself.

            by nobody at all on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 07:05:09 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Great post nobody at all (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              nobody at all, zett

              (I think you are somebody!)

              Your post brought me to tears...I come from a multi racial blended family (my mom remarried a black man, and we were raised with him and his son, my lil bro)

              The only time I felt it was when we would go out in public as a family. Especially the few times we went down south. The staring, the disgust....someone at a county fair in I believe GA walked right up to my mother and told her she was a n*** lover and a disgrace, then spit on her. I cried for hours.

              You are so right about the prospects for this child too....racism is out of style for the younger generation. I see it in my daughter-they were learning about MLK in school and she said "Mommy did you know that people with pink skin used to hate people with brown skin? Isn't that so weird?"

              I couldn't break it to her that there were still people like that out there...not yet. So I just agreed with her that it was weird :)

              And y