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Over there at Twitter, there’s a truly disgusting hashtag.

Now that’s nothing really new for Twitter. It is social networking and a lot of it is ridiculous. But the hashtag (LiberalTips2AvoidRape, and no, I won’t supply an actual link) is nasty on a whole new level of nasty.

It seems patently obvious that many of the Gen-Y (or Millennial) Conservative crowd in the US has trouble with the concept of “Don’t Rape.” Perhaps they’re egged on by their parents who also have a tough time with the concept of “Don’t Rape.” Gen-Y can be pretty assholeish--I'd know. I'm part of it and I've taken a lot of steps to not be an asshole.

To be fair as a society—American, North American, European derived, global, we all do have this problem. We see it in media reports and the example I’m about to give is archetypical:

“So-and-so had sexual relations with So and so against their will.”

What’s wrong with this sentence? Everything!  “So-and-so RAPED So-and-So.” Period. Why cloud it?

 So I thought I’d write this guide. This guide is not me being snarky and satirical. I’m quite serious about this.

When is it okay to rape? The answer is never. It is never okay to rape anyone. Not a man. Not a woman. Not children. Not teenagers. Not anyone.

I put a lot of the diary below the fold. I think it might be triggering. I apologize in advance.

“But, she was in a short skirt! And her privates were hanging out!” or “They were totally naked!” or “She was dressed like a streetwalker so she had it coming.”

No, you don’t get to rape them. And no, she didn’t deserve to get raped.

“But I need to exhibit my power over her!”

Nope, you don’t get to rape her.

“But we’re married so I can do whatever I want!”

Nope, you don’t get to rape her. No means no even in marriage.

“But we’re in prison and there’s no women around!”

Nope! You don’t get to rape him either.

“But he/she is a prostitute! They like it anyway.”

Nope! Wrong again. No means no. They said stop. You stop.

“But people who say No are just being teases!”

Nope! No means no. You don’t get to rape them.

“He or she was drunk!”

Yeah I don’t care. That doesn’t mean you get to rape them. It’s wrong. It’s a crime.

“I hope they get stuck in a cell with a dude named Bubba.”

Even this is wrong. Rape is rape. You do not go to prison for a crime to get victimized again. It is not part of ones sentence.

So much of how we approach this is wrong as all get out. Instead of teaching our kids “Don’t Rape,” we tell them “Don’t dress like a goddamn slut.” What the hell does that even mean? I think a man or a woman should be able to leave their home dressed however they want and not have to worry about some freak with something to prove raping them.  Instead of teaching people it’s entirely the fault of the rapist we blame the person who was raped. This is not okay.

This seems like common sense to me. “Don’t rape, and teach that to your offspring.” Apparently conservatives thinks this is too much.

Originally posted to #WELLACTUALLY on Tue Feb 19, 2013 at 12:05 PM PST.

Also republished by DKos TWEETers.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Yes, but ... (12+ / 0-)

    I heard about this dude who was running for the United States Senate and he said that women have this thing in their bodies that sort of shuts that whole rape thing down, so it's not that big a deal.

    He must have been right because they wouldn't allow a moron to run for the Senate, would they?

  •  does anyone actually *not* know that rape is (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tmservo433, NancyWH, blue muon

    wrong? Most criminals do things knowing they are wrong. Do you think that there are burglars out there breaking into people's houses just not knowing.. like someone forgot to tell them? I wonder how many of them use an unlocked or open door or a giant TV visible through the window as an excuse?

    P.S.

    Burglary is the fault of the criminal. It's not an excuse to leave your door opened/unlocked with your most valuable items in plain site of the windows. These dumb actions just might make you more likely to be victimized.

    •  all the listed excuses above (9+ / 0-)

      have been used successfully in court over the years to get rapists out of rape charges. So yes, there are people who do not know that they are in the wrong.

      Just today a ruling came down that a young woman wasn't gangraped at all because she and her rapists all were mentally deficient. Nevermind that they gang-raped her. Court said no rape occured. Where's the justice?

      relax relate release

      by terrypinder on Tue Feb 19, 2013 at 12:26:12 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yes, actually, (9+ / 0-)

      most men don't think rape is wrong--or rather, they don't identify rape as what it is, rape.  When surveyed and asked about various situations where consent could not be given, they would have sex with a woman anyway.  This is rape.  Only when the survey doesn't call it rape, a LOT more men admit to it.

      Then you have the men who will admit on a survey that if they knew they could 100% get away with a rape, that they would do it.  Clearly they don't think rape is really wrong.

      "I don't want a unicorn. I want a fucking pegasus. And I want it to carry a flaming sword." -mahakali overdrive

      by Silvia Nightshade on Tue Feb 19, 2013 at 12:45:50 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  either that or they are all criminal minded (0+ / 0-)

        i bet you could do a survey about theft and get similar results. People do fucked up things thinking they are justified or that they could get away with it? All that surveys really showed is that these people are criminals of opportunity.

        Many people here would justify theft if the thief was homeless just trying to eat.

      •  What do you mean by most? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        tmservo433, gramofsam1

        what data backs this up?

      •  how many movies or TV shows or TV ads will in (0+ / 0-)

        some ways show or hint at rape in their message?  Rape has to some degree been a social norm for generations

      •  Disagree with most (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Chi, Tonedevil

        I will tell you, most men I have worked with - and people who have helped with battered women and childrens shelters will tell you it absolutely is not us.   Rape sickens us, and people who are rapists are scumbags.

        I don't think most men don't view rape is wrong.

        Just too many men don't... and even though that's a real minority it's still too many.

        We also dismiss women who have committed acts of rape (it does, in fact, happen, and I can give anecdotal and statistical evidence) men who rape men, and adults who molest children.

        Too many.   But it's not a "most" of either gender.

        Gandhi's Seven Sins: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Commerce without morality; Science without humanity; Worship without sacrifice; Politics without principle

        by Chris Reeves on Tue Feb 19, 2013 at 02:40:11 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'm trying to find the link to the survey, (0+ / 0-)

          it was done by a credible source.

          The problem isn't that men don't think rape is bad.  I should have explained myself better.  They don't identify rape as being rape.  We teach "no means no."  Well that's great, but then men start to assume that if she didn't say "no" then she meant "yes" even if she never says "yes."  Which is why we need to teach a consent model of "yes means yes" as opposed to "no means no."  It is still important to teach men and women about this stupid idea that she's supposed to resist to be a "good girl" or whatever (which is where I think "no means no" comes from).  

          "I don't want a unicorn. I want a fucking pegasus. And I want it to carry a flaming sword." -mahakali overdrive

          by Silvia Nightshade on Wed Feb 20, 2013 at 04:27:35 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Three sources: (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Silvia Nightshade

            Koss M.P., Hidden rape: sexual aggression and victimization in a national sample of students in higher education. In: Burgess A.W., ed Rape and Sexual Assault. New York, NY: Garland Publishing: 1988;2:3-25.

            another is:

            White, Jacqueline W. and John A. Humphrey. "Young People's Attitudes Toward Acquaintance Rape." Acquaintance Rape: The Hidden crime." John Wiley and Sons, 1991.

            another is:

            Rapaport, Karen R. and C. Dale Posey. Sexually Coercive College Males. Acquaintance Rape: The Hidden Crime, edited by Andrea Parrot. John Wiley and Sons, 1991.

        •  Here are some studies: (0+ / 0-)

          Koss M.P., Hidden rape: sexual aggression and victimization in a national sample of students in higher education. In: Burgess A.W., ed Rape and Sexual Assault. New York, NY: Garland Publishing: 1988;2:3-25.

          White, Jacqueline W. and John A. Humphrey. "Young People's Attitudes Toward Acquaintance Rape." Acquaintance Rape: The Hidden crime." John Wiley and Sons, 1991.

          The following source said over forty percent of college men admitted to using coercive behavior to get sex, including ignoring "no", using physical aggression, and forcing intercourse. FORTY PERCENT. That is beyond unacceptable even if the other sixty percent don't rape. It means 4 out of 10 do. That is fucking bullshit.

          Rapaport, Karen R. and C. Dale Posey. Sexually Coercive College Males. Acquaintance Rape: The Hidden Crime, edited by Andrea Parrot. John Wiley and Sons, 1991.

          In the next two, over 30% of college men surveyed said if they knew they could get away with it, they would rape someone:

          Koss M.P., Dinero, T.E., Seibel, C.A. Stranger and acquaintance rape: Are there differences in the victim's experience? Psychology of Women Quarterly. 1988:12:1-24.

          Malamuth N.M. Rape proclivity among males. J Soc Issues. 1981;37:138-157.

          •  why does it seem like coervice behavior (0+ / 0-)

            sounds like begging or guilting her into having pity sex or claiming that he's the son of some super rich guy? If that's the case I'd blame the girl for falling for the most pathetic and oldest tactics in the book and actually consenting.

            •  No, the study defines coercive behavior (0+ / 0-)

              quite clearly as intimidation and use of physical force.

              That isn't the same as acting like you're The Game in a bar. That you'd conflate the two is troubling.

              You said the air was singing / it's calling you, you don't believe / These things you've never seen / Never heard, never dreamed.

              by CayceP on Wed Feb 20, 2013 at 05:24:56 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

    •  I think that many conservatives (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Penny GC, Cassandra Waites

      Think that that's how relationships are done.

      One, the man, is dominant, and the other, the child or woman, has to do what they are told.

      That's why they want to force girls/women to bear the offspring of rape, and to let the rapist have visitation rights or be able to sue for custody. It's how it's done in their world.

      Women create the entire labor force. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sympathy is the strongest instinct in human nature. - Charles Darwin

      by splashy on Tue Feb 19, 2013 at 12:58:15 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Most everybody knows rape is wrong (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Tonedevil

      But some people believe that certain actions are not "really" rape.  And they may also believe that there are good excuses for rape in other instances. I know running a red light is wrong. Happened to me today, though. There was a big bus in front of me blocking my view, and I didn't see the light had changed until I was already half way through the intersection.

      "No one life is more important than another. No one voice is more valid than another. Each life is a treasure. Each voice deserves to be heard." Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse & Onomastic

      by Catte Nappe on Tue Feb 19, 2013 at 01:09:52 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  why... (0+ / 0-)

    are responding to anonymous people on the Internet who are purposely posting fucked up shit?

    I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

    by jbou on Tue Feb 19, 2013 at 12:47:12 PM PST

  •  "Once we started, we can't stop" (6+ / 0-)

    This has also been used.  At any point during an act, a woman (or man, boy, or girl) can say: I am NOT ok.  This needs to stop.

    And you have an obligation to stop.   There is a story that went through a local group that ended in some pretty bitter results.  A man and wife enjoyed more.. agressive play.  They both acknowledged it, and were OK with it.  "Safewords" and all.   But one night, things got very out of hand and she contended that she was begging for a stop because the physical pain was unbearable.

    The moment that she said "this must stop" he had an obligation to stop.  At that point, you can walk away and say "OK, I listened to you, sorry let's figure this out." and you'd be OK.   But once he continued every moment after that was rape.

    There are numerous cases of date rape where a rapist pleads things like "She let me touch her, so that's all the consent I needed."

    That's not how it works.  

    No matter what the situation, NO MEANS NO

    Gandhi's Seven Sins: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Commerce without morality; Science without humanity; Worship without sacrifice; Politics without principle

    by Chris Reeves on Tue Feb 19, 2013 at 12:50:32 PM PST

    •  Exactly! (4+ / 0-)

      Sometimes what sounded like it might be a good idea ends up not being a good idea in practice.

      Fantasys are like that. Everyone needs to be able to stop things at any time. None of this "but I didn't get to finish" stuff. You can finish yourself if you feel the need.

      Women create the entire labor force. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sympathy is the strongest instinct in human nature. - Charles Darwin

      by splashy on Tue Feb 19, 2013 at 01:03:09 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  that is the excuse of every date rapist (4+ / 0-)

      At some point in the date, dinner with drinks and a movie = sex and his defense is that he was owed sex or else had a reasonable expectation of it

      •  One of the worst cases (4+ / 0-)

        I ever ran across when I helped with those who did this was a college freshman and her boyfriend who went out, and started fooling around.  

        Things got going (petting, oral), but while she was performing she started she began to panic.

        She felt as though something was very wrong and didn't feel comfortable.   She had reportedly said she just needed to stop, she wasn't comfortable..   Long story short, he lost control and very bad things happened.

        Someone had argued at that time that because there was no vaginal penetration it wasn't rape.   It was.   It was a forced sex act with an unwilling participant.  That's rape.

        What never gets me with guys is what the fuck is the deal?   Once, in my whole life, a girl asked to "stop".  (In that case, it turned out, she was sick from something at dinner, ran off and vomitted in a hurry.. which ended up making for major cleanup of my bathroom).

        Here's what I can tell you: if you RESPECT your partner, and they know you RESPECT them, it comes back to you.  Being willing to stop because she didn't felt well led to weeks of pretty good vibes for that relationship.   When guys are in that situation, here's what I tell them: Do the RIGHT thing, because you'll be remembered well for it.   Be a jerk, and you'll find yourself behind bars.

        Gandhi's Seven Sins: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Commerce without morality; Science without humanity; Worship without sacrifice; Politics without principle

        by Chris Reeves on Tue Feb 19, 2013 at 01:21:15 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  You have it completely right (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jlms qkw, Penny GC, Cassandra Waites

    Don't rape, no matter what. If someone is not actively willing, don't go for it. They may not be able to say no, so until you hear a yes, don't do it.

    Women create the entire labor force. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sympathy is the strongest instinct in human nature. - Charles Darwin

    by splashy on Tue Feb 19, 2013 at 12:55:44 PM PST

    •  I remember a recent case where the female (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jlms qkw, Tonedevil, splashy

      had passed out from alcohol and was disrobed and was passed around and finally urinated upon.  The comments in the local paper were that she "wanted it" or "asked for it" or "should have known not to get drunk" or "should have known better than to go to the party"

      incidentally the accused attackers were known locally as "The Rape Crew" as I remember it

  •  Just checked by to see if this diary were (4+ / 0-)

    getting the attention it deserves.  Your "trigger warning" concerned me but compared to some of the personal stories posted here on Kos, this is quite tame.

    This gets to a point I tried to argue earlier.  Outrageous things take outrageous methods to draw attention to them.  Rape is one of the most outrageous things one person can do to another on so many levels and causes so much permanent damage in many cases, I am really not sure what one would do to elevate a diary to the level of outrage that the act of rape should evoke in every reasonable human.

    The problem is that, with our social norms, it still does not evoke that rage among many or evokes rage for the wrong reason (such as race).

    At any rate, forgive the randomness of my thoughts. Good job here    

  •  when 1 in 3 women worldwide (4+ / 0-)

    are beaten or raped.

    when 1 in 6? women in the USA are raped.

    someone is doing the raping.

    and apparently, they aren't even cognizant they are raping.  if we cannot agree on a definition.  

    this is almost discouraging.  

    so i teach my son and my daughter to never touch someone without their permission.   and i teach them that they get to say no to anyone at any time their whole lives, if they don't want to be touched.  

    and i cross my fingers.

    Ted Kennedy: “The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die…”

    by jlms qkw on Tue Feb 19, 2013 at 01:14:03 PM PST

  •  This is pure sophistry. (0+ / 0-)
    This seems like common sense to me. “Don’t rape, and teach that to your offspring.” Apparently conservatives thinks this is too much.
  •  Graphic comment... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jlms qkw, Tonedevil

    I've been "date raped". My standard response to all the excuses is this:

    If a couple were getting hot and heavy and the man went to penetrate the woman but saw green pus oozing out of her vagina he would loose his hard-on in a flash. A woman's "no" needs to have the same power as that green pus.

    (Actually, anyone's "no", but this response was created out of my own experience.)

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