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  • Today's comic is ... And who shall save God-Man? by Ruben Bolling:
    Comic - ... And who shall save God-Man?
  • Good news, everyone. Karl Rove doesn't mind if you call him a Nazi:
    Karl Rove isn't holding a grudge against the Tea Party Patriots after the group sent out a fundraising email with a manipulated photo of the GOP operative wearing an SS uniform, but he is suprised the message made it out of the gate.
  • This is just ... just wrong. So, so wrong.
  • Outstanding:
    Hallelujah!  The Associated Press has corrected its incorrect assertion that legally-wed gay couples should generally not be referred to in the same manner as legally-wed straight couples.
  • How would Jesus hide money to avoid paying debts to the victims of sexual abuse by priests?
    A week before Cardinal Timothy M. Dolan is set to leave New York for Rome, where his name is being floated as a candidate for pope, he was questioned in Manhattan for three hours on Wednesday behind closed doors in a legal deposition concerning the sexual abuse of children by priests. [...]

    The Milwaukee Archdiocese said recently that it had spent $9 million in legal fees. Creditors accuse the archdiocese, under Archbishop Dolan, of shielding $55 million in a cemetery trust. The archdiocese argued that those assets had been set aside for Catholic burials by Archbishop Dolan’s predecessors.

    That's funny because in Los Angeles, Cardinal Mahony raided that archdiocese's cemetery trust to the tune of $115 million to, yes, pay off some of pedophile protection racket debt.  
  • Okay, punctuation nerds, time to fight about the Oxford comma again.
  • Oh, Jesus Christ, Nebraska. Or should I say black Jesus Christ?
    First of all, there is a black legislator from Nebraska. Second of all, he spent yesterday going Wrath of God on his fellow leggies, whether Dem or Republican, and specifically called them out (by name) for their gambling and fornicating and homosexing. Third of all, he told them all to shut up because Black Jesus.
  • On today's Kagro in the Morning show, Greg Dworkin had new polls showing the President up, Republicans down, and Rs on the losing end of the sequester, immigration and more. What's in store under the sequester? We reviewed a NYT editorial running down the impact. Also: a mini #GunFAIL roundup; GideonAB on the interesting development of "pre-registration" of scientific studies; Senate paralysis and the endgame on Hagel; and new CA polling  that appears to say bouncing Rs from government has got the state back on the right track.

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Comment Preferences

  •  The Marx Brothers in the Background (9+ / 0-)

    is a damn fun way to get through an afternoon at work - Night at the Opera to be exact. :D

    "HERPES was more popular than Dick Cheney when he left office!" Rachel Maddow 5/23/12

    by CityLightsLover on Thu Feb 21, 2013 at 12:08:10 PM PST

  •  You are what you Brand... (6+ / 0-)

    A Poet is at the same time a force for Solidarity and for Solitude -- Pablo Neruda / Netroots Radio podcasts of The After Show with Wink & Justice can be found on Stitcher

    by justiceputnam on Thu Feb 21, 2013 at 12:10:58 PM PST

  •  I believe the Oxford comma should be used ... (10+ / 0-)

    ... when it clarifies the meaning of the sentence, and it should be omitted when it does not.

    And if the meaning is muddied either way, then rewrite the damn sentence.

    "The fears of one class of men are not the measure of the rights of another." ~ George Bancroft (1800-1891)

    by JBL55 on Thu Feb 21, 2013 at 12:16:40 PM PST

    •  Always include. (5+ / 0-)

      It removes all ambiguity. End of argument.

      •  Read the article! (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Not A Bot, JBL55, Tamar

        It gives an example of a case where the inclusion of the Oxford comma actually adds ambiguity.

        In that case, though, I would argue in favor of rearranging the list.

        •  OK, the ONE example is just (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Batya the Toon, PSzymeczek, JBL55

          a sentence that begs to be rewritten.  Put the crowd in front of the policeman and George is off the hook.  There's art in grammar.

          •  Wikipedia article has great examples (0+ / 0-)

            here, beginning with "to my parents, Ayn Rand and God."

            The set of examples demonstrate that neither systematic use nor systematic avoidance of the serial comma (aka Oxford comma)  can always avoid ambiguity.

            Another:

            The Times once published an unintentionally humorous description of a Peter Ustinov documentary, noting that "highlights of his global tour include encounters with Nelson Mandela, an 800-year-old demigod and a dildo collector". This would still be ambiguous if a serial comma were added, as Mandela could then be mistaken for a demigod, although he would be precluded from being a dildo collector.

            There's no such thing as a free market!

            by Albanius on Thu Feb 21, 2013 at 01:44:40 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  Yep. It's like rearranging a pile of bricks (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Batya the Toon, LilithGardener, JBL55

          until you have a wall that will stand on its own.

          The wisdom of my forebears ... Two wise people will never agree. Man begins in dust and ends in dust — meanwhile it's good to drink some vodka. A man studies until he's seventy and dies a fool. Some of my best friends are Catholics, really.

          by Not A Bot on Thu Feb 21, 2013 at 12:50:54 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Except... (0+ / 0-)

          ...the other meaning of that sentence is not allowed under the rules of grammar.

          You are not allowed to say 'Through the window she saw George, a policeman, and several onlookers' and mean that George is a policemen. The correct way to write that would be 'Through the window she saw George -- a policeman -- and several onlookers'.

          Because we've already solved that damn problem, a long time ago, and it has nothing at all to do with the Oxford comma. If appositives would confusing delimited with commas, (Or they themselves contain commas) you have to use em-dashes!

          In fact, that sentence would be 'confusing' with an extra item with or without the Oxford comma. I.e., 'Through the window she saw George, a policeman, a cat[,] and several onlookers'

          OH NOES!!! That's confusing with or without an Oxford comma, at least if you're allowed to offset appositive phrases in such a confusing manner. Of course, instead of switching to dashes, another rules overrides that. We now follow the 'Do not use commas to delimit lists that have commas in the items' rule, so instead of trying to use a dash there for the appositive, what you do in that example is delimit the list with semicolons and leave the comma, aka 'George, a policeman; a cat; and several onlookers'.

          The actual facts of the matter: It is possible to, in a universe where the Oxford comma is not used or is optional, to come up with sentences that are ambiguous.

          And it is not possible, in a universe where the Oxford comma is used, to come up with a sentence that is ambiguous, at least not one that is actually that is correct either way. (1)

          It is, however, possible to come up with sentences that sound misleading, and for some reason there's been a recent spate of know-nothings gleefully making up such sentences, and pointing to the 'ambiguity' of the Oxford comma, happily ignoring the fact  that there's always some existing rule of grammar that stops one of those from being correct.

          Incidentally, by '--' I mean an em-dash, which really looks like —. Traditionally, computers only have en-dash on their keyboard, aka, 'hypen', aka, 'minus'. So people got in the habit of doing two en-dashes to make one em-dash.

          1) Someone is going to try to complain 'But not if you only use an Oxford comma where ambiguous! The other rules kick in when ambiguous, why not can't we make one?' The problem is, 'ambiguous' WRT to appositives and list items is fairly clearly defined. If you use an appositive in front of a conjection, you can't use a comma. If you have list items that have commas, you can't use commas to delimiter. There are well defined rules that even a computer can be taught. You can actually feed a computer a dictionary that tells which words are nouns and verbs and whatnot, and feed it a sentence, and it can diagram it...if, and only if, the Oxford comma is required.

          Whereas for 'I'd like to thank my parents, God and Ayn Rand'-like confusion, the writer has to actually sit down and figure out if anyone is going to misunderstand the thing, and the 'exception' would changed based on the order. That's an entire different level.

      •  When in doubt, (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JBL55

        include it.  Even if not in doubt.  Because clarity.

        You can't keep a mighty tree alive (much less expect it to thrive) by only spritzing the fine leaves at its tippy-top. The fate of the whole tree depends on nurturing the grassroots. - Jim Hightower

        by PSzymeczek on Thu Feb 21, 2013 at 01:16:56 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Or Use Cosmopolitan Magazine Italics to Show (0+ / 0-)

      the stress words that would make the sentence unambiguous if spoken.

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Thu Feb 21, 2013 at 12:24:07 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I tend to agree with you (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wintergreen8694, PSzymeczek, JBL55

      and not just because Lynne Truss (author of Eats, Shoots & Leaves) says the same.  :)

  •  I'm putting this on a bracelet. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Korkenzieher
    HWJHMTAPDTTVOSABP?
  •  Shorter Grassley on VAWA... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Gentle Giant

    A Poet is at the same time a force for Solidarity and for Solitude -- Pablo Neruda / Netroots Radio podcasts of The After Show with Wink & Justice can be found on Stitcher

    by justiceputnam on Thu Feb 21, 2013 at 12:21:19 PM PST

  •  this one is too easy: (3+ / 0-)
    Good news, everyone. Karl Rove doesn't mind if you call him a Nazi:
    Well, he does bear a more than  passing resemblance to Ernst Röhm . . .
  •  $55 million is a lotta Catholic burials. (6+ / 0-)

    Let's start at the top and work down.

    "Nonsense!" said Alice, very loudly and decidedly, and the Queen was silent.

    by RIposte on Thu Feb 21, 2013 at 12:30:34 PM PST

    •  The Roman Catholic Church ... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      LilithGardener, PSzymeczek

      ... robbing humankind for 2,000 years, and still going strong.  (Please note the appropriate use of an Oxford comma.  And humankind.  That, too.)

      The wisdom of my forebears ... Two wise people will never agree. Man begins in dust and ends in dust — meanwhile it's good to drink some vodka. A man studies until he's seventy and dies a fool. Some of my best friends are Catholics, really.

      by Not A Bot on Thu Feb 21, 2013 at 12:57:31 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  It was the priest, in the library, with the (0+ / 0-)

      archbishop, who worked out the whole plan to shelter $55 million.

      vs.

      It was the priest, in the library with the archbishop, who worked out the whole plane to shelter $55 million.

      Who worked out the plan?

      In the first sentence it's probably the priest AND the archbishop.

      In the second it's probably either the priest OR the archbishop.

      But we can rewrite:

      It was in the library that the priest and the cardinal worked out the whole plan to shelter $55 million.

  •  I admit, (4+ / 0-)

    to being, lazy as to, the Oxford, comma.  I, generally, do not, put a comma, after a word, which is followed by, and.

    " My faith in the Constitution is whole; it is complete; it is total." Barbara Jordan, 1974

    by gchaucer2 on Thu Feb 21, 2013 at 12:30:51 PM PST

  •  Drone kills ... ? (0+ / 0-)

    sez who... ?

    i dunno bout this ...

    There is no Article II power which says the Executive can violate the Constitution.--@Hugh * Addington's Perpwalk: TRAILHEAD of Accountability for Bush-2 Crimes.

    by greenbird on Thu Feb 21, 2013 at 12:35:52 PM PST

  •  OK, I'm old-fashioned, I admit it (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wintergreen8694, PSzymeczek

    I've always known the so-called "Oxford comma" as the "serial comma," and yes, I will continue to use it.  I am now, and have always been, a member of the "comma-nist" party.

    And to me, "flyer" will be spelled with a "y," not an "i," and I'll continue to pronounce realtor as "real-tor," not "ree-lah-tor," and "jewelry" as "jewel-ry," not "joo-la-ry."

    Enough said.

    "Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

    by Diana in NoVa on Thu Feb 21, 2013 at 12:37:36 PM PST

  •  Who can save God-Man? How about a human life? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PSzymeczek

    NOBODY!  You can extend it, but eventually, all human lives must end.  So why don't we say "The fireman extended the victim's life by rescuing him from the burning building?"

    There is no hell on earth appropriate enough for those who would promote the killing of another person, in the name of a god.

    by HarryParatestis on Thu Feb 21, 2013 at 12:40:26 PM PST

  •  Wonder how many other archdiocese are robbing (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wintergreen8694

    the dead to pay for their sins. Just who came up with this scheme? Because if they find more did it then it would appear they didn't think of it separately.

  •  Kudos, Cardinal Dolan! (0+ / 0-)

    Makes me proud to be from Milwaukee, home of the world's best paid grave diggers!

    Okay, so victims of pedophile priests don't get justice, but still, silver lining, right?

    The Bush Family: 0 for 4 in Wisconsin

    by Korkenzieher on Thu Feb 21, 2013 at 12:48:45 PM PST

  •  If Obama picked Rumsfeld as Secretary of Defense, (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PSzymeczek

    I think Senate Republicans would still bitch about it.

    We're all pretty strange one way or another; some of us just hide it better. "Normal" is a dryer setting.

    by david78209 on Thu Feb 21, 2013 at 12:49:02 PM PST

  •  Whole Foods uses Obama image to sell chicken (0+ / 0-)

    I mean... WHO would find this offensive, right?

    http://www.nbcbayarea.com/...

    Bqhatevwr, dude. Srsly. Bqhatevwr.

    by Fordmandalay on Thu Feb 21, 2013 at 12:49:04 PM PST

  •  DK Quilt Guild Projects (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Not A Bot, PSzymeczek

    Recent Diary about a new Group Daily Kos Quilt Guild Auction Alliance which spun off from the DK Quilt Guild. The DKQG members have been sewing blocks to create community quilts to help various important causes. Below are photos of the quilt tops. Imagine how beautiful they'll be once they're quilted.

    Here is the one for Okiciyap, which works to help residents of the Isabel Community on the Cheyenne River Reservation in South Dakota. The quilt is made of cotton fabrics, and is approximately 51" x 65". Professional quilter BeadLady is finishing it with custom quilting.

    This is the one for Netroots for the Troops. The organization raises money for the assembly, mailing and delivery of Care Packages to American military in war zones and to provide assistance to military families in the United States. The quilt is made of cotton fabrics, and is approximately 51" x 65". Professional quilter BeadLady is finishing it with custom quilting.

    It is a terrible thing to see and have no vision. ~ Helen Keller

    by Pam from Calif on Thu Feb 21, 2013 at 12:54:36 PM PST

  •  Hidden Comments (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Senor Unoball

    Was I the only one who noticed that this site managed to last over 24 hours without a single hidden comment between Monday and Tuesday?

    I though the damn thing was broken......

    "The first duty of a revolutionist is to get away with it.". Abbie Hoffman

    by Joes Steven on Thu Feb 21, 2013 at 12:56:36 PM PST

    •  Which day comes between Monday and Tuesday? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      PSzymeczek

      'Cause Monday had 7 hiddens, Tuesday had 2 hiddens, and Wednesday jumped up to 18 (mostly because of the now-Bojoed MichelleSmith. (Though jlseagull certainly did his/her share to keep the hiddens coming!)

      Please proceed, governor

      by Senor Unoball on Thu Feb 21, 2013 at 01:07:28 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Actually went an even longer time (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      PSzymeczek, Joes Steven

      There were zero Hidden Comments on Friday the 15th -- went from 8:20 on Thursday night to after 3pm on Saturday afternoon. (I'd like to think it was out of respect for GMB02's passing but I don't give the trolls that much credit for decency.)

      There's only one rule that I know of, babies -- goddammit, you've got to be kind. -- Kurt Vonnegut

      by Cali Scribe on Thu Feb 21, 2013 at 01:19:30 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  my my hey hey ... (0+ / 0-)

    rock and roll is all yours, Neil.
    and you are all ours, bud.

    There is no Article II power which says the Executive can violate the Constitution.--@Hugh * Addington's Perpwalk: TRAILHEAD of Accountability for Bush-2 Crimes.

    by greenbird on Thu Feb 21, 2013 at 01:22:23 PM PST

  •  Kinda reminds me of that old singing (0+ / 0-)

    telegram joke. [note to the under 40 crowd... a telegram was a message sent via telephone lines from one telegraph station to another back in the day, kinda like some ppl send money via MoneyGrams today. Well, yesterday. Before PayPal or SmartPhones. A live bodied messenger would then deliver the telegram from the telegraph station to the home/ office/ place of business (like the pizza delivery guy). As a marketing gimmick some telegram messengers sang the message]

  •  Commas and tangents (0+ / 0-)

    The Oxford comma post is far less about that in particular than it is the major issue the Internet has caused -- generations of people unwilling to understand and reflect on anything ever, but rather just react publicly and constantly.

    By the end of reading that I wasn't even sure what the point of it all was anymore. It kind of went on 10 tangents.

  •  If it's worth two more commas for a description... (0+ / 0-)

    ...where there would otherwise just be an and... then it's worth making that description distinctly enough a description and not just another list item. Then those without are obviously oxford commas lists. Problem solved.

    "Through the window she saw George, the policeman, and several onlookers"

    If no policeman had previously been mentioned, this would establish George as the policeman... but could still cause problems I guess.

    "Through the window she saw George, who is a policeman, and several onlookers."

    •  The correct way to punctuate that sentence (0+ / 0-)

      Through the window she saw George — the policeman — and several onlookers.

      If putting commas around an appositive phrase is confusing, you are not allowed to use commas, and must use dashes. Seriously, this is not rocket science, it's a real actual rule of grammar.

      Anytime anyone steps forward with a sentence that is 'confusing' with an Oxford comma, odds are a) one interpretation of that sentence is not allowed under grammar rules, and b) that sentence can trivially be made confusing for the non-Oxford comma people too by adding another list item, because the confusing thing is not the Oxford comma at all, but some other rule of grammar that those people don't know about.

      For example: Through the window she saw George, the policeman, a cat[,] and several onlookers.

      Add or remove that Oxford comma, you will be confused. But only if you  don't know that it's not legal to delimit a list of items that contain commas by using commas.

  •  On Ernie Chambers (0+ / 0-)

    While he may be eccentric, the guy actually has acted like a Democrat all his life See his post at Wikipedia.

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