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Yesterday I got a call from a Battle Buddy, He blew his job interview and did not get hired.

My buddy ran a Brigade S4 as a Senior NCO (E-8 Master Sergeant).  Which means he did the planning for unit movements, managed the Brigade's budget, advising the Commander on all logistics issues within the Brigade, conduct internal and external inspections, and ensure the Brigade has the required resources and equipment to complete its mission.

A Brigade is about 2 Battalions, each with about 5 companies, and about 3,500 Soldiers.  My buddy managed the logistics and accountability for them.

He was well rated in his job, one of the best.  He should be a shoe in for most any job he applied for.

He is a 23 year vet, would have loved to have stayed in but in 2005 he ended up in a coma from an IED blast.  He was in OIF and Desert Shield, and saw some "messed up stuff".  But the stuff that as he put it, "really F@cked Me Up" was what he saw in Yugoslavia.

He got out in 2008 but could not get looked at for employment beyond entry level.  To many employers did not know how to read his experience. When he applied for higher positions it was pointed out that they preferred to hire from with in.  My buddy made the mistake of not networking with private companies for 23 years while serving in the military. (not that he could of course)

In 09 he took one of the entry level jobs but his employer got pissed that twice a month he had appointments at the VA. (they are suppose to be one hour things but he ends up waiting half the day and some times comes out to worked up to even drive home.) They did not fire him but made it clear that he really needed to find another job.

The result is he bounced from job to job for a year and a half.  In 2011 he enrolled in college to complete his masters. (He had completed his BA while in the military by taking a few classes each year)  There he found job fairs that were looking for people with his training as soon as he got his MBA done.

He completes his degree this may, and had his first "real" job interview.

They went to the office area to talk the technical aspects and then to a TGIF type place for a get to know you meal.  The HR rep introduce him to the person he would be working for and my buddy knew there were going to be issues.  The man was from Serbia and spoke with an accent.  

As he put it "every time he said anything I kept seeing the bodies we recovered from the fields".  At the restaurant the noise, large number of people had him so worked up that he "couldn't hold my F-in fork".  He excused him self and walked out.  He drove to a park and then called the HR person to explain why.

The HR person was polite and said they "understood" and would get back to him.  He thinks he was doing ok till they went to the restaurant, there he was exposed, the noise of the TV's, people talking, having people walk behind him, the waitress coming up from behind him, was just too much.  He got through the appetizer, but "left a nice hunk of meat" there.

He is down to once a month at the VA, Graduates in May, works nights at a where house running forklifts.  But he was all upset that he can't make it through an interview at a restaurant because of the stress.  He has some medication that takes the edge off, but then he sounds drunk or high and can't drive.

On the bright side, he has three other interviews lined up.  But he jokes that his next interview will have someone from Iraq doing the talking and then go to a restaurant next to a mosque just before prayer time.

Originally posted to Drill Sgt K on Mon Mar 04, 2013 at 10:59 AM PST.

Also republished by DKos Military Veterans, Military Community Members of Daily Kos, In Support of Labor and Unions, and Community Spotlight.

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Comment Preferences

  •  One thing I would suggest (35+ / 0-)

    is that he gets in touch with Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America, they hook vets up with all kinds of services, and are involved in finding jobs for vets.
    On their front page right now is a post from 2-28,

    Today, Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America proudly unveiled “Career Pathfinder”, an innovative online employment tool for returning veterans. Funded by Cisco and powered by Futures Inc., this innovative tool was revealed during the 2013 TED Conference and will help the 2.5 million veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan transition from combat to career using technology.

    Good luck to him, and I hope this helps.

    “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

    by skohayes on Mon Mar 04, 2013 at 11:27:58 AM PST

    •  Good Link, skohayes (9+ / 0-)

      For Your Buddy, DrillSgtK And All Like Him It's so sad, he's so brilliant!

      I have Veteran's links, that even the republicans can't screw around with.  [Continually Updated] Links For Our ♥Marines All Our ♥Troops And ♥Veterans
      When employers don't hire your buddy, it's because they're jealous of him.

      Yeah, jealous of his brilliant mind.

      Some people can't stand having someone who's achieved better than they have. It makes them feel insecure.

      When employers say, they prefer to hire from within, they mean relatives and friends who will kiss up to them all day

      Those job fairs are pretty much worthless. Especially in today's economy.

      Not for Veterans. They need government help with getting a job that they can have a career in. Not working for some hack company.

      Veterans should have good jobs waiting for them when they come home. It's the least America can do.

      Rec'd And Tipped.

      Brought To You By That Crazed Sociologist/Media Fanatic rebel ga Be The Change You Want To See In The World! Gandhi

      by rebel ga on Mon Mar 04, 2013 at 06:27:47 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  If The Military Are The 'Best and the Brightest' (19+ / 0-)

    As they say when a brother or sister is Killed In Action, then why aren't we building a military from college graduates who everyone says, in the now higher education Industry, is what the country needs to be innovative and experienced for the labor market and the economic growth!!

    Give me a military veteran and you've got tons of not only experience but the needs to quickly integrate into most job positions required by almost any company seeking hires, thing is their a thousand times more intelligent in critical thinking and common sense then the so called 'human resources' departments or one or two who make hiring decisions!!!  

    “We are dealing with veterans, not procedures—with their problems, not ours.” —Gen Omar Bradley, First Administrator of the VA

    by jimstaro on Mon Mar 04, 2013 at 12:57:10 PM PST

  •  The trick is getting that military experience (19+ / 0-)

    translated into civilian terms, both on the resume and during the job interviews. The former is not too hard, there are services that can do that through IAVA, the VA and retiree affairs. The latter will require some practice. I spent 21 years in the Air Force and I had to learn to think and speak civilian again when I retired. It was not easy, but it is possible.

    I hope this helps. Our veterans are an invaluable and experienced resource that many corporations overlook because of the cultural differences. Officers have an easier time getting good gigs, for us enlisted folks, it takes more time and effort. Best of luck to your friend. Thanks for posting!

    Guns are never the principle in the commission of a crime, but they are usually an accomplice

    by MadGeorgiaDem on Mon Mar 04, 2013 at 01:16:30 PM PST

    •  Its hard sometimes to even get it translated to (8+ / 0-)

      college transcripts, and some duties are classified so one can have loads of valuable experience, but no way to communicate that legally to a potential employer.

      As far as the PSTD stuff. --Attention Diarist:

      I would ask him to look into a supplement called GABA.

      GABA is used by some people to treat for anxiety and to help with sleep disruptions. It quiets the brain a bit, so that if one is moderately anxious, it might bring the intensity down, or at least take the edge off.

      When one is tired, and you take this, it helps you remain asleep. You are less likely to wake up easily at slight noises. I am able to get deeper sleep with this supplement, even when I am anxious. The only thing I like better than this, is Melatonin.

      I am sure that this person is on prescription drugs, so I would not recommend taking this in conjunction with those without consulting a pharmacist and a physician. But it would not hurt if you or your friend did a bit of research. It could be a possible method of dealing with interviews or situations where there are crowds and noise.

      •  What is in GABA, and where do you get it? n/t (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        GreenMother, glorificus

        That's one more thing to add to my long list of small problems. --my son, age 10

        by concernedamerican on Mon Mar 04, 2013 at 08:28:09 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  GABA is a nutritional supplement (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          It's a chemical normally produced in the brain.

          GABA is an acronym for Gamma Amniobutyric Acid. It is a neurotransmitter found in our brains. You can buy GABA as a supplement from health food and nutritional supplement distributors.

          GABA is found in certain foods as well, and if you do a search on the acronym, you can find a list of those foods to increase your intake nutritionally.

          Some people take GABA and report no effects, and others find significant relief, so opinions vary on it's effectiveness.

          I will say, that when the body experiences chronic stress, especially at the high levels that are produced by PTSD--that a lot of deficiencies happen within the body as a result, and that can exacerbate the symptoms.

          Perhaps I should amend my post and recommend that the person in question, consider seeing a Naturopath-Doctor.

        •  The prescription version (0+ / 0-)

          is gapapentin (aka neurontin).

          Has indications for pain, anxiety, seizures etc. Long off patent so it is a  generic. The diarists friend can probably discuss an rx through his psychiatrist,

    •  Not a Trick (7+ / 0-)

      It's what's always has been reality, human nature, human intelligence as beings, humans as never stop learning on a daily basis along with curiosity and more, and the collapsing of even recognizing as everyone now is ingrained to spend tens of thousands with promises that a piece of paper and most not needing nor should be going for. Just look at some of these majors that they take and get degree's in and companies making up positions to fill that need of the promises made, the construction industry has been ruined here in this country, to many paper pushers and few trades that care about getting better because they don't get respect nor compensation for giving more, and that lack of respect now crosses all forms of employment. You get back would you give and with stagnant and falling comp nobody is going to go that extra mile even once let alone consistently!!

      The military is mostly made up of the grunts. They go to a few weeks of boot, then training in many different forms needed to fill the military needs, a society on it's own, even those so called just combat military are now highly trained, in short note, on the technologies today. All have to have a working knowledge especially if going on patrols in case one goes down another picks up and takes over what they were doing. And like I said above they aren't college grads with a piece of paper, in a matter of weeks they are trained to perform and continue that once on the job which brings those advances in rank as well as them training the new!!!

      “We are dealing with veterans, not procedures—with their problems, not ours.” —Gen Omar Bradley, First Administrator of the VA

      by jimstaro on Mon Mar 04, 2013 at 04:41:45 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  True about translation of military experience (8+ / 0-)

      Not long ago, I reviewed the resume of a retired Army enlisted man I had worked with for several years.  

      I knew he had long experience in health care materials management, but no way a civilian manager could have pulled that from the military terms and titles in his resume.  He ended up getting a new job within the military world before I needed to sit down with him to rework it in civilian terms.  

      I suspect that, despite my familiarity with what much of the work he had done, the civilian translation would have taken a full day sit down.  

  •  IMO, he should never have called to explain. He (12+ / 0-)

    should have let them assume it was job interview jitters. If they weren't going to hire him over it, then so be it, but I think his explanations of his "disabilities" sealed that up.

    I NEVER let a prospective employer know of my disabilities. If I need accommodations, I will let them know after I'm hired.

    "Mitt Romney looks like the CEO who fires you, then goes to the Country Club and laughs about it with his friends." ~ Thomas Roberts MSNBC

    by second gen on Mon Mar 04, 2013 at 01:21:09 PM PST

  •  Call your buddy back. (21+ / 0-)

    Let him know that an old jarhead with service-connected PTSD hears him loud and clear. What happened to him in that restaurant, the stuff that went on in his mind and his guts and in his limbs, that's all it, brother, your full blown PTSD attack in action.

    Whatever treatment course he's pursuing at the VA, or elsewhere, isn't working. He needs to get in some treatment that works! Until he does all the Masters's degrees in the world aren't going to bring relief from his suffering, or allow him to hold a job for all that long, either.

    To be clear, the title of this diary is unfortunate in that it creates an expectation about veterans. Generic veterans, ones with PTSD and the regular garden variety, more than 80%, who are just fine. It'd be a shame to see other veterans denied job opportunities because of the suffering of a few.

    Please vote for Purple Mountain Institute to win a booth in the Netroots Nation13 Hall Contest

    by DaNang65 on Mon Mar 04, 2013 at 02:15:25 PM PST

  •  One possible resource: (11+ / 0-)

    The PTSD Help Network. It isn't directly job search-related, but it sounds like Battle can maybe use both kinds of advice.

  •  The USA JOBS website use to have several pages (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    llbear, ridemybike, glorificus

    for every job title... now there is one or two.

  •  This stands out.... (11+ / 0-)
    ...he was doing ok till they went to the restaurant, there he was exposed, the noise of the TV's, people talking, having people walk behind him, the waitress coming up from behind him, was just too much....  
    A friend with PTSD (100% disabled, 5-6 years to be acknowledged) had very similar issues, definitely couldn't handle having people walk up behind him, couldn't stand being inadvertently touched....  He gave standing orders to all his friends "Don't kill any mosquitos you see biting me, just lettem bite me..." (if you swatted a bug on his shoulder he'd basically go berserk....)

    You can just imagine the problems he has with the legal know, judges who order him to go to anger management when he's got specific orders from the VA shrinks NOT to be placed in anger management...

    "Ronald Reagan is DEAD! His policies live on but we're doing something about THAT!"

    by leftykook on Mon Mar 04, 2013 at 04:27:02 PM PST

  •  As a veteran who is on Disability (9+ / 0-)

    I have a connection to this issue.  On some level, I understand the hesitancy of employers, yet I also do not feel comfortable with any kind of discrimination (veiled or open) as I have seen so much of that in my life.  When I was looking for an apartment with my first male partner in Tampa, in 1979, I was told by a couple of leasing agents that they did not rent 1 bedroom apartments to two males.  As a veteran and a gay man, I was astonished when that happened.  Even now, discrimination is an ugly and vile action in my view and I do not tolerate it - any kind.

    Yet, as a person diagnosed with PTSD and receiving VA disability because of that, I can see why employers and others might be wary.  I have had men tell me that even VA medical staff treat them differently when their PTSD is made known (some say it is red flagged on all of our records).  It is a complicated issue.  I wish our culture would be more diverse and have more kindness toward the other.

    •  Remember to be especially kind to those Fellow (6+ / 0-)

      Americans who breeze off a "Thank you for your service" and turn back to their iCrap. And these folks swallow the shit generated by the Cheneys and Rummies and Wolfowitzes and the rest, fill their closets with Fears of A-rabs and Al Quaidas, and blindly keep sending more of their family members and friends into one futile idiocy after another. Because, "security!" "National interest!"

      Good clean fun, right?

      I'm lucky, I got Medicare so I can finally, 45 years later, I can get a little consistent, competent, regular counseling from somebody who's not overworked or also burned out or disinterested or protecting the VA from any claims.

      "Is that all there is?" Peggy Lee.

      by jm214 on Mon Mar 04, 2013 at 05:33:22 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I took advice from another veteran (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Vetwife, jm214, glorificus

        who advised me to opt out of Medicare as the VA provides all of my medical treatment/care.  Well, before I became seriously ill, that seemed to be ok.  But now that I am facing serious heart disease, major pain from degenerative issues (the VA Pain Management Program is really a drug screening program - not even allowed Hydrocodone), and now that I was hospitalized two days in my local VA Hospital, I am astonished at the poor level of care & the lack of respect and dignity toward patients by staff.  I understand that if I were to try to now enroll in Medicare I would be greatly penalized in terms of my monthly payment.  The jokes on Americans seem to never end.  Our culture is really fucked up.

    •  PTSD does not result in a medical record flag (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      I work with behavioral flag issues at my job. A flag is only given in response to aggressive or inappropriate behaviors not for a diagnosis.

      If the symptoms associated with the diagnosis are associated with the aggression than the dx is referenced but a flag is never assigned solely as the result of a dx.

      •  Thank you for explaining that (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        I am among the most gentle people on the planet - not aggressive in any way.  My diagnosis resulted from abuse & I worked my entire civilian career in Child Protective Investigations - saw enough aggression and suffering in my career - that, now over sixty, I still wake up sometimes at night seeing it.


  •  As a retired headhunter [OK - for lawyers] (16+ / 0-)

    let me give you my take:

    The job was not for your battle buddy. Most Serbs - and I lived with one for 15 years and most of our clients in a different job were Serbs - Most Serbs have a temper. Your buddy would not make it through the probation period.

    You buddy needs to be looking for a plant manager position. That's the civilian equilivant. The product produced by that plant should be parts, machines, or industrial products. Ideally, the management should have military backgrounds.

    If posssible, the plant should run 24 hours a day, or at least 18 hours per day. A lot of plant managers don't like those hours, but your buddy could make his VA appointments and then go to work and still put in 8 to 10 hours a day.

    Another tip or two:
    They are looking for a manager, and his first task is to manage the interview. Ask them to lay out all of the duties and responsibilities. Take notes. Then he should tell them he assumes they have painted the rosiest picture possible.

    So, ask them what are the worst-case duties and responsibilities. Then, ask them to make clear for you the hours you will be working. Do those hours include nights and weekends? If so, ask if you need to come in later. That's when you can say, "Good, I can do my VA doctors appointments on those days." [It's not always going to work out that way, but that's your intention.] Assure them that if you are really needed at the plant, you will be there.

    When they ask you what your salary requirements are, ask them if they are offering you the job. Tell them that knowing a lot more about the job will equip you to answer that question accurately.

    Throughout the interview, ask questions. For instance:
    What are the biggest problems you need solved?
    What is the management turnover rate?
    To whom would you report?
    Who would report to you?
    Who at the plant reports to people other than you?
    Would those other managers deal with you directly?
    Who are the best people assests you have at the plant and What do they do?
    What happened to cause a vacancy in this position?

    I'm a little rusty at this, but I'll send you a Kos-Mail if I come up with more stuff.

    Those who fought the war in Afghanistan won it. Get them out of Afghanistan NOW . . . It's long past time. Those who want to wage the next war in Afghanistan are condemned to lose it.

    by llbear on Mon Mar 04, 2013 at 04:47:59 PM PST

    •  I agree with the above llbear suggested and also (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      llbear, glorificus, HM2Viking, chimene

      I hope your friend is not just working with civilian Human Resources.   The state unemployment or employment office has a Veteran human resource person to assist
      veterans and only veterans.   A veteran is supposed to be considered in the arena of federal be considered FIRST.   In the private sector, a protfolio of jobs required while in the military is always recommended in the resume' pretty much but more in depth than you presented.  

      There used to be a place called NCO/PO Employment that I actually worked for in the late sixties, early seventies.   It was an uphill battle placing veterans, espcially as DaNang noted returning from Nam.   I believe in those days, it was so very difficult due to the unpopular war and Vietnam.  Many veterans were experiencing a stigma of many sorts and the training was not like your friend.   In those days, there were not much call for sharpshooters , UNLESS, one wanted to go into law enforcement.    Many veterans did get jobs as police, fire fighters, etc.   Many others settled for a job at the local factory which does not exist any more, the service station, which does not exist anymore, and packing and shipping..( which basically does not exist anymore).  The veterans also had to endure physical and mental stigmas and no real treatment programs for PTSD.   They were in many cases just locked away or started into self medication and wound up in jail, broken relationship and not much of a support team..This included the VA.

      Please get in touch with DaNang and Richard Cranium and any who have some handles on these issues.   Good Luck.

      The times have changed for better treatment and more opportunity but your friend sounds like a classic PTSD patient of which he must face head on with his potential employer and the VA.   We must get over the stigma associated with veterans and post traumatic.  

      There was also not an American with Disabilities Law.
      Please utilize the VA for job programs and utilize every single outreach program out there.  The cycle must break.

      We the People have to make a difference and the Change.....Just do it ! Be part of helping us build a veteran community online. United Veterans of America

      by Vetwife on Tue Mar 05, 2013 at 04:27:41 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  vets don't have the status they used to (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rebel ga, chimene, ridemybike, glorificus

    for one reason, the media is keeping the wars undercover.  Syria gets more attention than what our troops are doing.

  •  Please (6+ / 0-)

    Help this guy get a claim in for PTSD.

    Get the name of the interviewer for evidence of disability.
    If he is unable to work because of a condition acquired in the service, he is due a rating on that disability.

    The sooner he gets it in, the better. The wait for a rating is over two years.

    •  I highly recommend a POA (0+ / 0-)

      Through the American Legion, VFW etc. They are experts at facilitating claims processing. Vets who use a POA are much more successful on working their way through the C&P process. VEts who self manage claims tend to get caught in the long process.

      The POA and the county VSO are meant to act as case managers for vets and to help facilitate claims processing.

  •  this discourages me so much (5+ / 0-)

    my son had "only" 5 1/2 years in the Air Force and went in with no significant college-leve class work or degree. For reasons I don't want to go into he "only" qualified for construction and pavement work, did work very hard, got into combat situations in the first five months in Iraq, d got very good evaluation in all the work he did .  

    Til he figured out after leaving how to get his GI bill or health related VA benefits time passed. He found only part-time jobs in the field he worked on in the Air Force and only in Hawaii, never full-time, never long-term just project related.

    Since he has come back into the DC area, he gets rejected for any kind of construction job, because they demand he must speak spanish...

    He goes to school to get some sort of degree with little belief that it will bring him anywhere. So, when even people with much more education and experience in their military career can't find a job anymore, how should the majority of "uneducated" veterans compete against the mass of "uneducated" civilian workers ? How should they be convinced that the classes they take (which are for the most part useless so far) would help them to work in a decent job?


  •  Interviewing Is A Skill, That Was Just Practice (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rebel ga, chimene, ridemybike

    Often that first interview is just a warmup, and sometimes it was deceptively easy to get.

    There’s always free cheddar in a mousetrap, baby

    by bernardpliers on Mon Mar 04, 2013 at 06:22:32 PM PST

  •  in re: your headline. (0+ / 0-)

    'vet's' is the possessive.  you want the plural, 'vets'.  

    sorry to niggle.

  •  As a "cold warrior" I was lucky to have gotten (6+ / 0-)

    Aviation training, and been a Naval Aviator.  It's a "blue collar" skill that pays well, as I found out a few years after I got out.

    When I got out of the active Navy in the late 80s and transitioned to the reserves, I went back and got my MBA from one of the so-called "Southern Ivies" and had the bad fortune to graduate at the height of the the first Bush recession.  When I would go to job interviews I would find that there was this impenetrable wall when trying to explain why I was "qualified" to be in anyone's management structure.  The only company I even had more than one interview with was not a US company, it just has a big preference here in the US and there was a guy who was at an MBA job fair who was an ex-Marine officer who seemed to think I'd be a fit, sadly he wasn't the ultimate "decision maker" and I didn't get the job (there were two candidates left, and the other guy got the job because they thought he'd be more "loyal", he took their foreign language training and quit six months later).  

    I went to tech job fairs (had a fair amount of computer experience) in the DC area when we lived there for my wife's job and was actually told by a defense-industry tech recruiter that "It's too bad you wasted all those years in the military, we could probably hire you but you're a bit old".  I was all of about my late 30s.  I finally did tech work as a "consultant" for a while and got a job with a geological consulting firm doing their IT work.  When I'd apply for management positions in IT, I'd be told that "You don't have any experience managing 'tech' employees'.  Yeah, but 70 officers and sailors I was completely responsible for as their CO didn't count for shit in the race for a middle-level management job.  

    So I went back to aviation and the airlines a career I really never sought out.  I came in as all new-hires do, with shitty pay but a solid respect for my experience from the guys  worked with.  I had the good fortune to now have guys I flew with who got to the airlines ahead of me and are now senior captains at one of the major airlines write me letters of recommendation that got me hired at their airline, even though some of us never flew together but served together...they understood where I was coming from and made sure that the company valued my experience and willingness to learn and provide leadership on the flight deck.  

    How sad that all these fucking mouth-breathers who tell us "thanks for your service" thank us by shitting all over our service by passing us by for jobs we are more than qualified and willing to do.  

    A celibate clergy is an especially good idea, because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism. -Carl Sagan

    by jo fish on Mon Mar 04, 2013 at 07:04:27 PM PST

  •  From one vet to another... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dotdash2u, ridemybike, glorificus, chimene

    From my experience, being a vet doesn't mean a thing in the civilian gets you a free meal on veterans day...that's about it. The economy is in such disarray that the promise of the American dream for a vet is bunk. I went to school, applied for the jobs, and I'm not even considered for an interview. I'm glad you friend has interviews, but for us that want to have sustaining and fulfilling's hard to find...

  •  Most civilian employers (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ridemybike, vulcangrrl

    are all to aware of the horrible job that the military does at everything it does. That is why they have no respect for military experience. It takes the military twice as much money to do anything and there is zero accountability. As long as they fail at every task they undertake, IRAQ, Afghanistan ant $600 toilets no one running a business is going to want to employ them. Most companies have to get something done and don't have unlimited funds from an ignorant public.

    •  Whoa. It seems you're conflating "Military" as in (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      glorificus, Smoh

      administration, Pentagon; and "military", as in "troops and individuals who in a variety of better- or- worse- equipped situations have to make sure everything functions according to plan."  

      And obviously the latter group don't "fail at every task they undertake" or "do a horrible job"--- they often do amazing things under shitty under-equipped conditions, things that involve real-life skills, cooperation, decision-making, creativity, leadership.  Things applicable to civilian jobs once one gets out of the military.

      That's one more thing to add to my long list of small problems. --my son, age 10

      by concernedamerican on Mon Mar 04, 2013 at 08:37:46 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  No I am stating a fact. (0+ / 0-)

        The military is failing at every task set for it and costing exorbitant amounts of money while it does it. That means the people that do the work come from a culture of failure. Every aspect of the current wars are horrible failures from the generals to the privates and every stage in between. Having spent many years in the military I speak from experience. While there are many good people in the military as a group they do a lousy job and working for a shitty company is not a good way to get experience that translates into employment. Or was it the plan to turn Iraq and Afghanistan into open slaughter houses for ethnic cleansing while murdering and torturing innocent people. The scum in the Prison pictures or throwing dogs off of bridges were enlisted men not generals. There is nothing honorable about being a Mercenary.

  •  There is no accomodation or understanding (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    For many vets who need to have things a certain way before they can feel halfway comfortable.

    Personally, I think they need to be able to survive without having to have a job, which is where a huge number of people are going to be in the future anyway with robotics taking over.

    Why should our society expect us to work to survive? It makes no sense.

    Women create the entire labor force. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sympathy is the strongest instinct in human nature. - Charles Darwin

    by splashy on Mon Mar 04, 2013 at 07:59:43 PM PST

    •  I think of this all too often. (0+ / 0-)

      In regard to vets and everyone else. As technology becomes more advanced in regard to general 'production', and with the upper financial echelon apparently finding it acceptable to recede the diameter of the circle of their social contract, the entire rules of the game will shift. Perhaps we need to redefine what we consider 'job' to mean. Perhaps it's time to shift, again, from a culture of warriors and laborers to a culture of inventors and engineers.

      We need a society of scientists.

      I will not say do not weep, for not all tears are an evil.

      by ReverseThePolarity on Tue Mar 05, 2013 at 05:32:27 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Agreed, except not just scientists (0+ / 0-)

        Artists and other creative pursuits should be emphasized.

        I bet there could be a large amount of philosophical thought that could help everyone to get to a better place. I have known many an uneducated person that was poor that had very deep philosophical thoughts, but no one paid attention to them because they were not educated and were poor.

        Women create the entire labor force. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sympathy is the strongest instinct in human nature. - Charles Darwin

        by splashy on Fri Mar 08, 2013 at 01:41:08 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  it may take time (0+ / 0-)

    An E8 specializes in leadership.  Most employers aren't willing to put someone into that kind of roll off the street.  They want to get to know you first.  However, if you were a successful E8 then you should rise through the ranks quickly.

    I started my current job ten years ago.  A CSM started with me.  It was an entry level professional position.  In that 10 years he moved into a management track very quickly.  He is now the top guy in a different division.   Your friend may just need to get his foot in the door somewhere and hopefully things will take care of themselves after that.  

  •  Two Things actually three (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Vetwife, Smoh

    I work extensively with vets who have PTSD.

    1. He should sign up for voc rehab through the VA.

    2. He should also actively pursue employment with state or federal government. With his background I would be willing to bet there is a management level job in government that he would be competitive for selection.

    3. If he hasn't completed Prolonged exposure or CBT as part of his treatment he should go through the time limited therapy as well as connect to his therapist and/or case manager to discuss what happened.

    Wishing your friend the best!

  •  Hide rated for abuse of veterans (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Radiowalla, Wood Dragon

    calling them losers and calling out a disability as a reason for non employment.

    We the People have to make a difference and the Change.....Just do it ! Be part of helping us build a veteran community online. United Veterans of America

    by Vetwife on Tue Mar 05, 2013 at 11:35:25 AM PST

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