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So I watched Chris Hayes' launch tonight. He was as good as he was on the weekends. A great progressive voice. Smart, full of facts, and able to make any story seem like the most important, outrageous story of the day. A trait he shares with Rachel Maddow, but she got there first, and imo, does so with a bit more passion, even though I would never say passion is Maddow's strong suit.

But passion WAS Big Eddie's strong suit. Ed Schultz. I miss him already. To me, he was the one voice on the MSNBC line up that knew how to zero in on something and not let go. He could be blustery, angry, sometimes off the mark, but always so damn human. Not a talking head, never a talking head, he could never discipline himself to that kind of thing.

But he did discipline himself to the voice of working America in a way Rachel, Chris, Lawrence, and even Al, can't light a candle to. It's just not there with them, folks. They're going to cover it now and then, but it's not their raison d'être--their reason to be. It was Ed's.

God knows, Ed was no intellectual, no wonk. He was more like the sports coach you like best---a bit of a blow hard, but passionate as hell, always authentic to who he is, AND centered on a win for the team he champions.  And with Ed, we know exactly who he was championing.

Chris Hayes can't be Ed, and he shouldn't try. He's a smart, smart man with plenty to say. But I fear a certain dilution with him---the temptation to cover so many outrages with such wonky perfection, that it all evens out to a smooth peanut butter of progressive howling---a lack of priorities. As much as I love her, I feel Rachel sometimes tip toes across this same risk. For instance, why the HELL does she NEVER breath a word about SS, the chained CPI or Medicare?  Honest to God, as far as I can tell, almost never a WORD.

And then there's just what sells. Call me crazy, but I just don't think Chris Hayes is going to bring the numbers home for MSNBC. No I do not think so. And I'll be happy to wrong on this, as I'm a fan of his, but not in this time slot, and not at the expense of a more focused voice, as I felt Ed was.

So anyhow, that's just one gal's opinion, and I expect y'all to set me straight as to where I'm wrong, and maybe a few will agree with me.  In any case, I enjoy the conversation.  

 

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Comment Preferences

  •  i'm with you (12+ / 0-)

    there's only one Ed, and i really miss him,  i never know what we're doing on weekends, so it's not the same.

    Old saying, the devil’s greatest trick is that he convinced people that he doesn’t exist. Well, white supremacy’s greatest trick is that it has convinced people that, if it exists at all, it exists always in other people, never in us. -Junot Díaz

    by Avila on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 10:24:50 PM PDT

    •  SIGH. Me too. (10+ / 0-)

      If anyone can rescue MSNBC from prison ---WTF UP WITH THAT?!?!?!, could there be any more ridiculous programming?---it will be Ed. I'll catch him whenever I can, but I agree, it won't be the same.

      Still, maybe Ed will help MSNBC to quit with the endless behind bars programming---really, MSNBC's prison thing is a Saturday Night Live skit that needs to happen, what's taken them so long?

      "A typical vice of American politics is the avoidance of saying anything real on real issues." Theodore Roosevelt.

      by StellaRay on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 10:33:14 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  they have to change (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ichibon, avsp

        anything we like?  i don't know . . . . i used to DVR the cable news shows and watch 'em after my kids went to sleep, but i just hate the letdown!  all ready to chill for the day and you expect to see Ed, or someone you know will have a great show, and then they just aren't there . . . .

        i don't understand why they're in prison, but i wish they'd stop.  they have to get Ed back for the Zimmerman trial, don't they?  

        Old saying, the devil’s greatest trick is that he convinced people that he doesn’t exist. Well, white supremacy’s greatest trick is that it has convinced people that, if it exists at all, it exists always in other people, never in us. -Junot Díaz

        by Avila on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 10:48:50 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Agreed (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        StellaRay, Avila, exterris, avsp

        As much as I hate the MSNBC prison stuff on weekends, I really can't watch the Ed Show. The weekends are the only time I have to spend with kids and grandkids.

      •  I Call It Prison Porn (11+ / 0-)

        and I have no idea why they run this shit. IMHO they could just cherry pick this or that news show from the last week and run it. I don't know, I guess there are just people that get enjoyment of folks in jail. I find it something that makes me physically sick to my stomach.

        When opportunity calls pick up the phone and give it directions to your house.

        by webranding on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 10:56:21 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  MSNBC is using it's live weekend hosts as... (0+ / 0-)

        ...potential weekday prime-time incubators.

        "...and, also but too..." - S. Palin  (09.08.08)

        Ed Schultz was (is) an apologist for virtually all the Dinos in Washington (re: Harry Reid and his rotating gang of___).

        Ed Schultz's lead-in ratings for Rachel were awful.

        Ed Schultz (a former republican "...convert") is not much different the right wing on gun safety, renewable energy emegence and...("entitlement reform").

        I do NOT confuse the loud-talking...shallow-thinking for passion.  I do NOT miss Ed Schultz at all...

        I am General Maximus Decimus Meridius. Father of a murdered son, husband to a murdered wife and I shall have my vengeance in this life or the next.

        by 2questions on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 06:59:16 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Heh. We didn't hear the same Ed Schultz. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          RealWorld SD

          If I had a dime for every time I heard him tear into Harry Reid. I have also heard him talk about the NRA an how full of shit they are on his radio show, often.  And he covered "entitlement reform" which he thinks stinks, far more often than Rachel ever has.  But to each their own.

          "A typical vice of American politics is the avoidance of saying anything real on real issues." Theodore Roosevelt.

          by StellaRay on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 08:12:40 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  enough with worshiping... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mollyd

    at the alter of the white working class white male and this comes from a guy who was raised in a white working class house in a white working class neighborhood.

    I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

    by jbou on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 10:36:21 PM PDT

  •  Chris is fantastic (6+ / 0-)

    at what he does. I have always thought that he is a super smart wonk. But at 8 pm on weekdays, I believe we need more passion, which is what Ed brought. I always suspected that MSNBC would get rid of him at their earliest opportunity because he does not "follow the rules of television." Oh well, I survived KO's departure, I guess I'll survive this. At least I don't have to pay for MSNBC on TV. I get it on Sirius/XM.

    •  An interesting thought... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Avila, Bob Duck, FindingMyVoice

      how do the "rules of television" differ from FOX to MSNBC to CNN? Or for that matter, to Brian Sullivan on the antique NBC nightly news?

      What I would say, is that the #1 rule of television, cable or network, is that enough people have to want to watch you to keep you alive.

      I agree, Chris is fantastic at what he does.  And in no way did I mean my diary as a diss on him. And he certainly deserves his chance to prove himself, and I'm going to give that to him, even though I'm doubtful. And like I said, I really hope he proves me wrong.

      It's not that I'm doubtful about his great intelligence and grasp of facts and ability to corral them to his point.  He's masterful at that.  

      However, cable news people, imo, survive on a POV, a niche, a voice not exactly like the voice before or after. This is where I await Chris Hayes to differentiate himself from Rachel, because so far---and I include his weekend show in this---I'm just not seeing it.  But I admit my "so far" is exceedingly short.

      "A typical vice of American politics is the avoidance of saying anything real on real issues." Theodore Roosevelt.

      by StellaRay on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 11:02:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I Liked Ed For One Reason Only (12+ / 0-)

    he brought on the voice of unions. Outside of that I didn't like him much. I felt he yelled a lot. I can't stress this enough. I get it from Rachel and always from Chris, I watch their shows a learn shit. Let me say that again, I learn stuff I didn't know listening to them. That means a lot to me.

    When opportunity calls pick up the phone and give it directions to your house.

    by webranding on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 10:52:36 PM PDT

    •  Ed's the kind of guy you would fire up a quiet (8+ / 0-)

      crowd with, like Jennifer Granholm at the DLC.  He does what he does well, but he didn't go outside of it very often.

      I gotta say, his freight train attitude was good on most days but sometimes I think he'd just grab ahold of the wrong issue and still run with it.

      Having said that, if you ever want to whip up a crowd into a progressive fervor, have Ed Schultz open your rally :).  He'd do it every time.

      "The first drawback of anger is that it destroys your inner peace; the second is that it distorts your view of reality. If you come to understand that anger is really unhelpful, you can begin to distance yourself from anger." - The Dalai Lama

      by auron renouille on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 11:10:18 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think you underestimate Ed, (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        James Allen, Avila, exterris, ichibon

        but I understand how his passionate, unedited voice can rattle the intellectual want.

        Do you know of, remember the "bikini graph?"  Oh Lord, I wish I was a computer wonk at the point, and I'd link it asap. But it's late, and I'm not going to.

        But the "bikini graph" is to me one of the most powerful visuals that unmasked the lies of the right.  It shows the jobs decreasing under Bush, right up to the crash, and then increasing under Obama, culminating in the shape of the V of a bikini bottom.

        Ed put that on his show night after night. He pounded it home. It wasn't fancy, it wasn't wonkish, it wasn't so multi layered you couldn't discern the bottom line.  

        It was just a fact.  And that's an example of what I think Ed did very, very well. He made the complex simple enough to grasp.

        And like I said in my diary, I fear that Chris Hayes, as much as I like him, will give us, to quote myself "a smooth peanut butter of progressive howling---each outrage equal to the next, without a sense of priority.

        Ed had his priorities, and I really appreciated that.

        "A typical vice of American politics is the avoidance of saying anything real on real issues." Theodore Roosevelt.

        by StellaRay on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 11:34:03 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Learning stuff means a lot to me too. (7+ / 0-)

      But I learned a lot from Ed Schultz. I learned a lot every night that he broadcast from Wisconsin when they were trying to recall Walker.  I learned how many working people of all colors were willing to show up at the capitol and give it a go.  I learned on his show just how badly teachers were being screwed by Walker---he interviewed all kinds of teachers in those days, and let them have the microphone.  

      Where else did you see that kind of coverage of the uprising in Wisconsin? Where else did you tune into that often interviewed the public workers that were being rolled over by Walker and the Koch Brothers? Did I miss something? Was there a show or place where this was more going on than on Ed's show?  Don't think so.

      So when you say you miss Ed as the voice of unions, but are unhappy that he yelled a lot, well...I'm not very sympathetic.
      He had a lot to yell about in a media universe that wasn't and isn't nicked in the slightest by what's gone on in Wisconsin, Michigan and, and, and.

      Show me on major media voice that gives a shit, now that Ed is gone.

      "A typical vice of American politics is the avoidance of saying anything real on real issues." Theodore Roosevelt.

      by StellaRay on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 11:17:56 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yeah, but how many people watch TV to (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      StellaRay, FindingMyVoice

      learn stuff?

      I know I sure don't!

      (unless it's Discovery Channel, to learn how psychic dinosaurs foresaw the coming of Nostradamus, or something like that)

    •  this... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      thomask, StellaRay

      I watch these programs to learn stuff, not to be agitated. If the issue is one I feel strongly about, I don't need to be whipped into a frenzy about it. Ed would quite literally order us to get outraged.

      The nightly "get our your phones" polls were silly - because they were push polls and because the sample was his audience, the results were pretty much meaningless.

      "It's almost as if we're watching Mitt Romney on Safari in his own country." -- Jonathan Capeheart

      by JackND on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 06:11:14 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  We were just talking with friends visiting from (5+ / 0-)

    out of town; they live in western NY state and one of them wrote a play last year about a 1912 textile workers' strike.  And we were lamenting the removal of the Ed Show.  Ed knew labor issues and had passion for anything having to do with what was right for working-class, decent America.  And he came by it honestly, with years of being down in the trenches.  

    I wonder about the behind the scenes politics of removing Ed.  Of course television is all about upping the numbers; and perhaps, post-election, MSNBC felt it had to shake up its political teevee lineup and turned a sharp eye toward homegrown Ed.  Chris Hayes combines youthful energy with technocratic authority and ivy league smarts, wrapped in a genuinely nice guy package.  But in taking Ed away, MSNBC disappointed thousands of viewers, that's for sure.

    That's one more thing to add to my long list of small problems. --my son, age 10

    by concernedamerican on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 10:57:31 PM PDT

    •  I thought Ed asked for the weekend shift? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jayden

      That's what he said, anyway.

      "Michael Moore, who was filming a movie about corporate welfare called 'Capitalism: A Love Story,' sought and received incentives."

      by Bush Bites on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 11:39:36 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes; but we're talking about a prime weeknight (0+ / 0-)

        slot.  

        That's one more thing to add to my long list of small problems. --my son, age 10

        by concernedamerican on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 11:49:44 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Who knows the truth here? (6+ / 0-)

        There were rumblings for weeks that MSNBC was looking to off Ed.  Then all of a sudden, voila, Ed wants to give it up for the weekends.

        OTOH, Ed's wife is recovering from a tough cancer, and he was running a weekly radio and TV show at the same time, something Rachel gave up as soon as she got her gig on MSNBC, it's a tough grind to say the least.

        And then there's the possibility that Ed said, really? What do I need with this?  I can keep my radio show, do more in depth shows on weekend MSNBC and fish a lot more too, not to mention spending time with wife and family.

        We just don't and won't know. And the point of my diary was not to try to bring Ed back, as much as to say that I don't think  no matter how it came down, that they replaced him well with Chris Hayes.

        And again, nothing against Chris. Admire and like him. Don't think he's going to hold this time slot. We'll see. Won't mind it a bit if he proves me wrong.

        "A typical vice of American politics is the avoidance of saying anything real on real issues." Theodore Roosevelt.

        by StellaRay on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 12:00:29 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Kinda like (0+ / 0-)

        Lawrence asked to be moved to a later time.

    •  Nicely said. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      concernedamerican, cosette

      And to the point of my diary, which was not just to rah rah, Ed, but also to say I'm worried for Chris Hayes in this slot...this:

      Chris Hayes combines youthful energy with technocratic authority and ivy league smarts, wrapped in a genuinely nice guy package.
      OK. What would be wrong with this statement too:
      Rachel Maddow combines youthful energy with technocratic authority and ivy league smarts, wrapped in a genuninely nice gal package.
      And that's exactly it.  We now imo, have back to back very similarly wonkish, nice guy, nice gal packages, BOTH which IMO, refuse to have a singular POV or battle, but rather make every story an outrage of sorts, therefore refusing to point to any priorities.

      And yes, MSNBC lost a lot when they lost Ed.  And I think they're going to begin to feel it very soon.

      "A typical vice of American politics is the avoidance of saying anything real on real issues." Theodore Roosevelt.

      by StellaRay on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 11:53:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  But they have different show formats... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        StellaRay, k88dad

        I like both Chris and Rachel, but prefer Chris' panels of diverse viewpoints. Rachel's format is primarily solo, where she takes the time to build up to her story. In any case, both are better (IMHO)  than relying on the same MSNBC pundits on show after show talking about the same thing. I appreciated Ed's alignment with labor, but honestly, I tire of the blustery, outraged host. And his cellphone polls were ridiculously lame.

        You might be a Republican if you think that intentionally sabotaging the economy for four years is an election strategy instead of treason.

        by Constant Comment on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 07:55:20 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I totally agree about (0+ / 0-)

          "the same old MSNBC pundits." They show up all day long and it would be nice to see some fresh faces. Actually, that's one of things I like about Rachel's format. A lot of it is her going solo, and she can carry that. And when she does interview someone it is an interview, one on one, and with someone you haven't seen all day long saying the same things. She feels no need to have the ubiquitous "both sides of the fence" on, and that's a blessed relief.

          "A typical vice of American politics is the avoidance of saying anything real on real issues." Theodore Roosevelt.

          by StellaRay on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 08:48:19 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  It will be nice to have Ed on weekends (13+ / 0-)

    providing some rapid response to the Sunday Republican Talk Show circuit.

    "Load up on guns, bring your friends. It's fun to lose and to pretend."::::::::::: ~Kurt Cobain

    by Jeff Y on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 11:03:14 PM PDT

  •  Chris and Ed are two very different people (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    StellaRay, exterris

    I like both of them a lot. I grew up in Fargo/Moorhead and I knew a lot of guys like Ed Schultz (who's from North Dakota) when I was young. He hunts geese or pheasants or whatever. He’s comfortable using guns. Plus, when I can only hear his voice (on radio), he sounds a lot like Rush Limbaugh. He has a Midwest voice, sort of a blue collar guy. I like him a lot.

    Chris Hayes is probably not a gun guy who likes to shoot birds (I don’t know for sure). He’s a well-educated college guy, who can make really good points about politics. He’s more like Rachel Maddow. A really really smart guy – I heard Chris Hayes interviewed on NPR. He majored in the philosophy of mathematics.

    You made some good points about both of them. Ed and Chris are very different, but I think Chris will do well in his new show. I'll miss Ed.

    "Stupid just can't keep its mouth shut." -- SweetAuntFanny's grandmother.

    by Dbug on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 11:33:30 PM PDT

    •  Yep, they're very different. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dbug, christine20

      What concerns me is how much Chris Hayes is like Rachel, and how much I doubt the line up can take two of the same. Ed, like him or not, was a different point of view, and a very strong singular view point.

      It's not a matter of right or wrong, and I hope Chris does well. Although, I must say, I don't know that I'll tune into him as much as I did Ed. Don't know how else to put it, but, SIGH, although I want to want to, Hayes just doesn't grab me for this time slot, night after night.  No, probably not going to be there all that often.

      "A typical vice of American politics is the avoidance of saying anything real on real issues." Theodore Roosevelt.

      by StellaRay on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 12:19:46 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Good point. (0+ / 0-)

        I don't have cable, so when I watch Rachel Maddow or Jon Stewart, it's on the internet (the next day). I might have to watch Chris Hayes a few times, too. Just to see how he's doing.

        "Stupid just can't keep its mouth shut." -- SweetAuntFanny's grandmother.

        by Dbug on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 09:54:37 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  My thought as I watched (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    StellaRay, christine20, exterris

    was that MSNBC made a huge mistake. And I'm a Hayes fan.

    "It doesn't matter what I do....People need to hear what I have to say. There's no one else who can say what I can say. It doesn't matter what I live."--Newty

    by Vico on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 11:34:47 PM PDT

    •  Yep. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      christine20, RealWorld SD

      And I'll tell you, I like Chris Hayes enough that I feel very bad about what I think he's facing.  IMO, no freaking way he's going to bring in the numbers Ed did, in this time slot, every night of the week.

      WAY to wonky, not at all about the hottest topics of the day, just not going to make prime time cable news.

      I'll eat my hat with salt and pepper on it if I'm wrong. Hats can be good if cooked till tender. ;)

      "A typical vice of American politics is the avoidance of saying anything real on real issues." Theodore Roosevelt.

      by StellaRay on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 12:26:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  My concern about Chris Hayes: (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Avila, StellaRay, OLinda, cosette

    Why did he name his show after David Petraus's biography? Seriously, that title was very significantly damaged.

  •  Yeah: It's becoming a bit of a geek night. n/t (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    StellaRay, christine20

    "Michael Moore, who was filming a movie about corporate welfare called 'Capitalism: A Love Story,' sought and received incentives."

    by Bush Bites on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 11:37:51 PM PDT

  •  I'm a big fan of Chris and love the product. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    StellaRay, cosette, exterris, christine20

    But...I don't think it's going to work in that time slot.

    It's just to damn cerebral. It pains me to say that because I crave the in-depth analysis he provides.

    Unfortunately, he's now in a position where he has to build a show and a name for himself at the same time.

    His approach doesn't have a fraction of the raw emotion that Schultz and Olbermann brought. Maybe he can develop that to try and appeal to a broader audience, but I don't think it'll be authentic.

    He's best suited to a (civil) panel discussion of a highly complex issue, not getting red in the face like Ed or Kieth.

    I hope I'm wrong about this,

    •  I understand why you hope (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      The Eyewitness Muse, christine20

      you're wrong about this, I have the exact same feeling. We like Chris, we want him to succeed. He's so earnest and so smart, we just can't help but wish him the best---and the impossible.

      Because imo, it is impossible, in this time slot, and I'm kind of shocked that MSNBC doesn't know better, or at least that they didn't try to drive him to make his show more on the hot topics of the day.

      Instead his show is just like his weekend show was, as if no change was necessary to curry favor in a different time slot. This is some kind of crazy.

      Tonight he discussed school cheating scandals for much of the show. This is VERY important and noteworthy and earnest and, and, and---it's not going to capture numbers in prime time cable. You can hate that that's true, but it's very true.

      And really, to be honest, I can read about school cheating scandals and I don't know, try to be aware and make  the decisions I can to stop it, or vote against it or just be part of a new consensus about it.

      But this is NOT what I want in prime time cable news. I want to hear the most important news and  arguments of the day, and how everyone feels about it. I simply don't want to watch a cerebral round table on a very thin slice of the news for a quarter of a show. Not every night at prime time.

      "A typical vice of American politics is the avoidance of saying anything real on real issues." Theodore Roosevelt.

      by StellaRay on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 01:06:38 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I've said it before: (6+ / 0-)

    Two weeks before the Wisconsin recall elections, Ed Schultz was on air rallying the troops. That weekend, Chris Hayes spent an hour and a half telling America that soldiers shouldn't necessarily be called heroes. A week before the Wisconsin elections, Ed was in Wisconsin getting the job done. I think Chris mentioned the recall elections in passing that weekend.

    I'm also going to miss Ed on weeknights as well. Time for Democrats to rally around labor.  

    I would tip you, but the man took away my tips.

    by Tortmaster on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 12:47:04 AM PDT

    •  Yes, and thank you. (0+ / 0-)

      "A typical vice of American politics is the avoidance of saying anything real on real issues." Theodore Roosevelt.

      by StellaRay on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 01:08:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  We need more people on TV (0+ / 0-)

      who will tell us that soldiers should not necessarily be called heroes.

      Not fewer.

      If I owe Smith ten dollars and God forgives me, that doesn't pay Smith. -Robert Green Ingersoll

      by jrfrog on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 11:18:31 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  As the setup of my comment ... (0+ / 0-)

        ... explicitly implied, timing was everything. What a terrible time to seek his own national headlines at the expense of progress made by progressives.

        Good luck to Hayes, but he's more of the same with Lawrence and Rachel, and I'd much rather watch those two.

        I would tip you, but the man took away my tips.

        by Tortmaster on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 02:16:33 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I can't say I agree with this... (5+ / 0-)

    One of the things that I love so much about Chris is that he DOES get passionate.   During the Election night, how he got so invested in some of his thoughts about how it would effect the country was literally riveting.  I actually find myself rewinding when he goes off on a tear.

    I didn't watch UP all that often (didn't have the time), but I've heard from enough people who do watch it that he covered blue collar workers and that situation if not as much as Ed, more than anyone else out there.  

    I liked Ed, but I didn't watch his show.  I tried to, but what you saw as passion I read as OTT bluster, even if it was genuine (which I believed it was), it didn't work for me.  I just couldn't watch it.  Chris Hayes, on the other hand, has passion oozing out of every nerdy, wonky pore.

    Is this were Ezra Klein, I'd agree, but not Chris.  Wonkiness and passion can go hand in hand.

    We all made this journey for a reason. -- President Barack Obama (February 10, 2007)

    by arabian on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 02:17:24 AM PDT

    •  Yeah, not an Ezra fan either. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      christine20

      I'm certainly going to keep watching Chris, at least for awhile, to see if he grows into that time slot. I just think the show is too cerebral for a lead in to the nightly line up, but as I've said many times here, won't mind a bit if he proves me wrong. Hard not to like the guy, and I do.

      "A typical vice of American politics is the avoidance of saying anything real on real issues." Theodore Roosevelt.

      by StellaRay on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 08:33:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The two-hour format (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    christine20, StellaRay

    on the weekends suited him.  He's really good at probing deeply into issues and an hour doesn't seem to allow for that in quite the same way.  We'll see....

    -7.62, -7.28 "Hold fast to dreams, for if dreams die, life is a broken winged bird that cannot fly." -Langston Hughes

    by luckylizard on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 03:23:49 AM PDT

  •  Ed Was Good (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RUNDOWN, christine20, StellaRay

    I thought Ed was very good.  It was a mistake to take him off weekdays.  I hope they bring him back.  They should put him on earlier.

    "Don't Let Them Catch You With Your Eyes Closed"

    by rssrai on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 03:36:30 AM PDT

  •  Chris Hayes (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    christine20, StellaRay

    seems too cerebral and dispassionate, while probably off base - still seems that way.

    Like a liberal NY college doctoral student debating politics at the local coffee shop for fun, I couldn't really get with that show - hopefully it improves.

    While Ed wasn't the greatest, he seems more down to earth, a person average working class people can relate to, and gets fired up when needed.

    This is a completely different audience and atmosphere from early weekend mornings - emotions are higher, and attention spans are shorter.

    PHD level PolySci discussions, or government outrage for dummies?

    Somewhere in between maybe better.

    In a capitalist democracy - every dollar is a "vote" ... spend wisely ...

    by RUNDOWN on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 04:14:47 AM PDT

  •  Ed is on the way out (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    exterris, xgoper, StellaRay

    For whatever reason MSNBC wants Ed out. He has said on his radio show he still has no idea when he is starting weekends. plus how many people will be watching cable news on weekends 5-7?
    Ed doesn't have to do TV, he has his radio show plus he has a fishing lodge and I believe a construction company that his family runs. He is probably a very rich guy and helps the working guy out when no one else is. He is probably even working against his own self interest as a small business owner.
    Even is they do get the weekend show going how long can he work 7 days a week, I expect Ed will be gone by next year because of lack of support from MSNBC or he sees the writing on the wall.

    •  kind of agree (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      christine20

      I assume Ed will get a weekend show because the network will look stupid if they screw him. Most likely the ratings will suck, Ed will be working nonstop and get frustrated and just end up quitting.
      He still has I believe the most listened to progressive show on radio and as you said other interests and businesses. He  is Probably pretty well off and doesn't need the TV money.

  •  Ed Schultz was a strong voice for the people. (3+ / 0-)

    He was willing to take on Obama, lord knows that needs to be done; and he cared about principle.

    Ed is still on the radio, and I still listen to him there.  

    What we need is a Democrat in the White House.

    by dkmich on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 04:28:23 AM PDT

  •  Our corporate overlords have their own network (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    StellaRay, RealWorld SD

    (CNBC) pumping 1% propaganda 24/7. I just think it's too bad we have no steady, reliable source for labor news and viewpoint. Ed Schulz, whatever his shortcomings, was a reliable friend to labor. I will miss him for that reason.

    If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - President John F. Kennedy

    by laurel g 15942 on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 05:38:33 AM PDT

  •  I don't think we'll (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    StellaRay

    be talking about Hayes as MSNBC host this time next year. I did not watch his show last night, but friends that did won't be watching again.

  •   you must have conservative friends (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    christine20

    Hayes has an almost cult like following but not to sure how that will transfer to ratings. All I know is since Ed has been off the air MSNBC has lost a lot of viewers at 8 but they have had fill in hosts.
    Only time will tell if they made a mistake. I found his show to be unique   for prime time cable with extended panel discussions. He needs to learn to be a more refined host though, he always looks like he had to much caffeine.

  •  I liked Hayes from the first time I saw him on TV, (0+ / 0-)

    He is one smart guy, in a good way. And when he got his weekend show I watched regularly. But then I bought his book about a school that he attended as a child and the way it selected its students. It seemed empty. I didn't expect that, but then I knew why. He is an intellectual, of a particular type. He identifies problems but he doesn't solve them. Nobody on his show ever solves a problem.

    There are intellectuals that solve problems and they have moved our species forward in dramatic ways. But Hayes belongs to the intellectual class that many, but not all, economists, historians, and political scientists belong to. He identifies problems but he doesn't solve them. And that will cause his show to founder.

    Lots of businessmen solve problems, and scientists as well. Engineers are constantly solving problems, and that is what Hayes needs to do. He needs to become an engineer. He needs to spend all of that TV time trying to solve big problems. He needs to actually write legislation on his show and with the Internet participation of the People.

    Might and Right are always fighting, in our youth it seems exciting. Right is always nearly winning, Might can hardly keep from grinning. -- Clarence Day

    by hestal on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 06:33:25 AM PDT

    •  Ed Schults didn't write legislation on his show (0+ / 0-)

      either.

      A sure way to kill your TV news show is to use it to write legislation.  Being a cure for insomnia is not what TV shows are for.  Also advertisers are not paying for the TV host to write legislation real-time, especially legislation that could affect their business.

      Presenting differing viewpoints is what TV news hosts should do, but only if there are really differing viewpoints.  Hayes said on his weekend show a while back that he would not allow climate change deniers on his show because they were blatantly spewing falsehoods and he didn't want to waste air time on them or on refuting them.

      ...wars are poor chisels for carving out peaceful tomorrows -- Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.

      by PaganVoter on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 06:48:45 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  No, Ed didn't write legislation. That was not his (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        christine20

        style. He is a man of action. He got out among the people who were taking direct action. He gave them media attention. So, he tried to solve problems by the traditional method, march and you will succeed. But that procedure has become less and less effective.

        I suppose your summary of what TV programs are for, and what advertisers will and will not pay for is correct and it is also old news. But you have done what Hayes does, you have merely identified the problem and you have contributed nothing, nichts, nada, toward solving it. Your comment reminds me of something that an ancient Greek said, it might have been Pericles. I don't remember it exactly, but he said that the Greeks were obliged to work to solve the problems of their city. They were obliged to take their turn and apply their energies toward solving problems. And he said that they regarded people who did not try to solve problems as "useless." So, I would say that your comment is "useless," and a waste of time. I hope it made you feel better, but it did nothing for me, except to know that it was confirmation of my comment about Hayes. Problem identification, while an initial and necessary part of problem solving, is easy. Solving problems is hard.

        There was once an old radio show starring Judy Canova. She had a farm and there was a farm hand who worked for her. She used to get into all sorts of humorous situations. Usually at the start of the show she would give her hand a problem to solve. At the end she would ask him for a status report. He would say that he had not made much progress. She would then launch into an explanation of how it should be done. She would make it sound as if she could have built the Great Wall of China over a weekend. Then her hand would reply, "For you, easy, for me, difficult." He was right, the man who has to solve the problem understands how difficult it is, but that step is necessary to solve a problem. Hayes is like Judy Canova. He identifies problems but does want to solve them. You seem to be that way too.

        Might and Right are always fighting, in our youth it seems exciting. Right is always nearly winning, Might can hardly keep from grinning. -- Clarence Day

        by hestal on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 07:11:03 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Chirs Hayes is no Ezra Klein (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    StellaRay, arabian

    I like Ed Shultz, but I really like Chris Hayes.  Hayes combines passion with intelligence.  He is also a big advocate for climate change policies and hope he keeps bringing that topic up for discussion.  Whereas, Klein's speech pattern fits best with the O'Donnell show but only as a guest host.  Klein's voice pattern eventually gets hard to stay tuned into; whereas, Hayes has a fluid voice pattern that is easy on the ears.

    Hayes fits the 25-54 marketing age group for advertisers and that is what MSNBC execs are looking at.  Schultz's numbers were good, but his show wasn't growing.

    I'll still watch Ed on Weekends.  I've got TiVo, so am not tied to the time slot to watch his weekend show.  Of course, I listen to his radio show on podcast.

     

    ...wars are poor chisels for carving out peaceful tomorrows -- Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.

    by PaganVoter on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 06:44:05 AM PDT

    •  they better hope (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      christine20

      The ratings have really fallen in the 8pm time slot since Ed has been off the air. Probably a drop of 20% in viewership. Hopefully Chris can get back close to 250K in the demo and 1 million total viewers.
      If not MSNBC screwed up.

  •  Snore fest (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    christine20

    Nothing weighs down the eye lids like time watching Chris Hays. Watching Ed kept me alert. I was always expecting him to explode in anger.

  •  ED brought a different flavor... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    StellaRay, christine20

    to the nightly line-up.  I think each host has their own flair, style, and goals.  Ed brought the war on American workers to the forefront.  He went to Wisconsin.  He went to IL to Sensata.  The corporate media ignores this stuff.  He has passion, and frankly progressives and independents could use a dose and get fired up about their country slipping away into a Plutocracy.  I think Ed felt that if he could bring a piece of Americana to you that personally spoke to you, you would engage and get involved.  If I can't watch him on the weekends I will DVR it.  Keep the fire lit, Ed!

    •  Yep, (0+ / 0-)

      "corporate media" definitely ignores this stuff, other than maybe a 30 second blip about it now and then. Sometimes I think the reason Ed is gone is because he was too much of a rabble rouser for MSNBC, as was Keith Olbermann, although the two men have different styles and platforms. I think they prefer a less passionate approach, one that intellectualizes instead of angers. After all, angry villagers can be a problem. ;)

      "A typical vice of American politics is the avoidance of saying anything real on real issues." Theodore Roosevelt.

      by StellaRay on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 08:57:31 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Personally, I'm tired of the name calling. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    auron renouille

    I prefer Chris and Rachel to Ed. I also learn a lot more from them, even if it did feel good sometimes to hear Ed let the right-wingers have it.

  •  Chris Hayes Night two (0+ / 0-)

    WTF CARES ABOUT MARK SANFORD?

    A half hour about affairs about sexual scandals?

    Can you say Nancy Grace?

    The Ghost of Tom Joad http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jVZHCUbS4U

    by Illinois IRV on Tue Apr 02, 2013 at 05:23:51 PM PDT

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