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A U.S. Border vehicle drives along the U.S. and Mexico border fence in Naco, Arizona September 7, 2011. Since the attacks on 9/11 ten years ago, the U.S Border Patrol and National Guard Troops have increased security along the border in Arizona. REUTERS/J
So the latest ABC-WaPo poll on immigration claims that just 35 percent of Republicans support a path toward citizenship.

Yet a late February poll from Fox News found that 63 percent of Republicans favored "allowing illegal immigrants to remain in the country and eventually qualify for U.S. citizenship, as long as they meet certain requirements like paying back taxes, learning English, and passing a background check." This matched polling from 2008 and 2009 showing Republicans overwhelmingly supporting comprehensive immigration reform.

But there's a caveat, and one that is relevant to this latest ABC/WaPo poll—Republicans need to be told that these undocumented immigrants will pay a price for their lawbreakin'. The wording on this latest poll was, "Do you support or oppose a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants?" See? No punishment. To a run-of-the-mill conservative, you might as well have asked whether he supported "amnesty." But if you throw in a "pay fine" or "pay back taxes" (like the Fox News poll did), GOP support skyrockets 30-40 points. An amnesty is a blanket forgiveness. Paying a fine is, by definition, no longer amnesty.

All current proposals for reform include such penalty provisions, and few are arguing against them. These undocumented immigrants did break the law after all. Let them pay their fine and normalize their status. Everyone is happy.

Well, except for the xenophobes, but their actual number is far smaller than this latest ABC/WaPo poll would lead you to believe.

Originally posted to kos on Wed Apr 03, 2013 at 10:24 AM PDT.

Also republished by Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  The Democrats seem to be looking at the polls. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Words In Action, lgmcp, xxdr zombiexx

    they're saying they support a pathway to a green card and eventually to citizenship after waiting in line and paying taxes and fines.

    •  Welcome to America! (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Tennessee Dave

      Please keep your wallet handy.

      •  It's a trivial, understandable crime. (0+ / 0-)

        So is speeding when you're late to work. I still had to pay the fine. I see absolutely nothing wrong with a reasonable fine.

        You can do whatever you want to us, but we're not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America.

        by Eric Stratton on Wed Apr 03, 2013 at 01:23:50 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  What do we say to the people abroad (0+ / 0-)

          who wanted to come but were chumps and did not overstay their visitor's visa or cross the border illegally?

          There are hundreds of millions of people all over the world who obeyed the law.  Should we discourage obeying the law?

          •  In this case, yes. They are here...does it really (0+ / 0-)

            matter anymore how and why?  

            They have children who are our children too, because they are citizens.  They need real jobs, real healthcare and their children must be educated....they also need to be able to vote and be a part of our country in that way, so their voices are heard.  They need to be citizens, and quickly, in order for them to get all of this help they need to be productive contributors to this society.  We must simply open our arms and hearts to their plight.

            After it is done, then we can talk about closing the border if this must be done in the name of "jobs for everyone".  This is the hardest part, making certain everyone has the chance for a middle class life and job if they want one. I think we need to stop supporting more and more work visas...even the unions are supporting this and we do not need any more people waiting in line for good jobs.  Give amnesty to those who are here....provide good jobs, create good jobs and then see if our country can hold anymore before we send out invites for more people.

  •  And, like the Republicans, (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Words In Action, lgmcp, Eric Stratton

    we can have our own civil war once we realize that no two of us agree on what "comprehensive immigration reform" means.

    Your end of the Constitution is sinking.

    by happymisanthropy on Wed Apr 03, 2013 at 11:06:23 AM PDT

  •  The devil will always be in the details (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    decembersue, Tamar, Larsstephens

    If "fines and back taxes" are punitive enough, there might was well be no path.   And if they're NOT prohibiitive and draconian, Republicans will go right back to screaming "no amnesty".  

    "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

    by lgmcp on Wed Apr 03, 2013 at 11:23:19 AM PDT

  •  What's the plan Marco?.....Time to shine!! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JML9999, annieli
  •  Why should they pay back taxes (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    agent, Yonkers Boy, IT Professional

    we invited them here so we could have cheap hamburgers. The reason our hamburgers were cheap was because they were working under the table. That should be on us.

    •  how will anyone know how much they owe? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      decembersue, IT Professional

      they were probably paid cash. they can simply say they made very little, fill out a 1040EZ and get a big fat EITC refund instead.

      •  Retroactive EITC certain to be explicitly blocked (4+ / 0-)

        but yeah, their real wages likely low enough to make the "back taxes" part be less significant than the other barriers.  

        But how would retroactive filings by persons who worked in a cash economy even be handled?  

        "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

        by lgmcp on Wed Apr 03, 2013 at 11:40:11 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Many undocumented immigrants (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bluemeanies, sacrelicious, agent

        are very careful to pay taxes.  You can get a tax id number even if you are undocumented.  Many, many immigrants understand that proof of paying taxes is necessary to get immigration benefits, even now... if an immigrant wants to make an exceptional hardship claim under current law, s/he needs to be able to demonstrate compliance with tax requirements.

        There are some who work entirely in the informal economy and don't pay taxes.  There are others who work in the informal economy and do pay taxes, perhaps not on their whole income.  And there are many who work in the formal economy and pay full taxes.  It's really all over the place.  The take-away is that many undocumented immigrants do deliberately pay their taxes to avoid worse sanctions and to protect themselves should an opportunity for adjusting their status appear. Many immigration attorneys advise their clients that, whatever else, they should be compliant in terms of reporting income and paying taxes.

        “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” Charles Darwin

        by ivorybill on Wed Apr 03, 2013 at 12:51:51 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I have some of the same feeling but for different (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      decembersue, lgmcp, ivorybill

      reasons. Most of the undocumented have been paying taxes all along -- sales tax. Since for a lot of them their incomes are quite low, I doubt that they really should be paying back taxes on income. And many have, because they use fake social security numbers, been paying into the Medicare & Social Security system without ever being able to derive any benefits from their contributions.
      They use very few public services because they avoid anything official. They're cheap dates, so to speak.
      As for going to the back of the line for citizenship, I'd be all for that if it were a reasonable line. But from what I hear, the length of time for a legal immigrant to become a citizen is now so horrendous, that being in the back of the line might mean not becoming a citizen until you're close to death. Which is exactly what the Republicans want.

      While Democrats work to get more people to vote, Republicans work to ensure those votes won't count.

      by Tamar on Wed Apr 03, 2013 at 11:38:24 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Where have you heard (0+ / 0-)

        That it takes a long time for a legal immigrant to become a citizen?  I can't find anything to back up that claim.

        •  It took my uncle's wife almost 10 years and she (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Tamar, Yonkers Boy, ivorybill

          came here with a lot of money and had lawyers to work with her from day 1.  She was also already married to a citizen and had children that were citizens.  She also has an advanced degree.  It can take a much longer time for someone of modest means and no education...much less money to afford help legally.

        •  Relative petitions from many countries (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Tamar

          take upwards of ten or twelve years.  Then there's usually 5 1/2 to 6 years before a permanent resident becomes eligible for citizenship.

          If you have a sibling or a parent and you apply for them to join you in the US, it can easily take the better part of two decades (if at all) for that person to get here "legally", adjust status and become a citizen.

          I have heard - but do not have the source - that one of the compromise positions for compreyhensive immigration reform is for undocumented immigrants to get work authorization but be delayed in getting permanent residence, and then be on a pathway to citizenship that might take up to 18 years.  I wish I had a citation for that, so take it with a grain of salt.

          “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” Charles Darwin

          by ivorybill on Wed Apr 03, 2013 at 12:55:50 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  In virtually all cases, lawful permenent residence (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ivorybill

            a.k.a. "green card' status must precede citizenship for five years of "good moral character."  If you obtained your LPR status through an immediate relative petition (spouse, for example), as long as you continue to live in marital union, you will be eligible to apply for citizenship after three years.  

            Regarding timing, when you get to the lower level preference rates (a.k.a. the DOS "visa bulletin"), the waits become way longer.  The 10, 15, 20 year waits often involved those types of cases (siblings of U.S. Citizens, for example, are NOT immediate relatives).  Sometimes, asylum applicants do not receive "individual hearings" before an immigration judge for 7, 8 years or more.  The reasons for this will vary.

            Mix the blood and make new people!

            by Yonkers Boy on Wed Apr 03, 2013 at 01:40:01 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  I will admit that my source is the Rachel Maddow (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Yonkers Boy, ivorybill

          show. Usually I check sources more carefully. So because of your question I did a search -- easily came up with this:

          For example, there currently is an 18-year backlog for the adult, unmarried Mexican sons and daughters of U.S. citizens who initiate paperwork to immigrate to the United States, Stump said. For married Mexican sons and daughters of U.S. citizens, the backlog is nearly 19 years.
          http://www.tulsaworld.com/...
          and this:
          For example, in January 2011 the priority date for which visas were being allocated for the category of siblings of U.S. citizens was January 1, 2002. By February 2011, the priority date had actually receded to January 1, 2000.
          http://www.immigrationforum.org/...

          From what I've read so far, there's a big range of wait time from a few years to many many years depending on which category you're in. Since people are saying "back of the line" for undocumented residents, my guess is that means they'd be at the upper end of the range.

          While Democrats work to get more people to vote, Republicans work to ensure those votes won't count.

          by Tamar on Wed Apr 03, 2013 at 01:39:39 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Clarificatin re unmarried sons and daughters. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ivorybill

            These are unmarried ADULTS over the age of 21 who generally have parents who recently naturalized.  IF you are under the age of 18, and your parent naturalizes now, you will obtain "acquired" U.S. Citizenship automatically (assuming the Child Citizenship Act of 2000 applies to you).  Between 18 and 21, if unmarried, you would still qualify as an "immediate relative" but not for acquired USC status.  Folks over the age of 21 AND unmarried are just not treated with a ton of concern by our government.  PARENTS of USCs, however, are always immediate relatives once the USC child turns 21 (whether married or not).  That is the "anchor baby" argument--it is more like an "anchor-adult-old-enough-to-drink-alcohol" argument.

            Mix the blood and make new people!

            by Yonkers Boy on Wed Apr 03, 2013 at 02:02:53 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  my point was that there are plenty of people (0+ / 0-)

              who are relatives of citizens who have hugely long waits for citizenship. If the undocumented are put at the end of the line, I would assume that would be behind these people.

              While Democrats work to get more people to vote, Republicans work to ensure those votes won't count.

              by Tamar on Wed Apr 03, 2013 at 11:12:49 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  Depending on the ajudicator or "IJ" (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      decembersue, lgmcp

      (immigration judge), this could be a sticky issue if left up to the discretion of individual deciders.  I have seen the "pay back taxes before you get asylum" argument with my own eyes.  In the family-based green card context (marriage-based, for example), this issue comes up a lot less, but that has more to do with immediate family member USC rights being transferred to the alien, I think.  The "super fee" or "penalty" should be high enough to take this into account.  Proving/determining the amount of payable back taxes would strain the system to even worse inefficiency, IMHO.

      Mix the blood and make new people!

      by Yonkers Boy on Wed Apr 03, 2013 at 11:40:27 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  A ridiculous argument. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ivorybill

      As I said upthread, I view illegal border crossing (especially by those seeking work) as about a serious a crime as speeding. But when I got pulled over for doing that one morning, because I was late to work, I didn't get away with arguing that by employers made me break the law because they pressure me to be on time. That's just a silly argument.

      I mean it's as if people are trying so hard to be pro-immigration they're just digging around for any reason to be against a fine. Honestly it's a good deal for deal, though. You get to call me racist and then look like you're morally superior.

      You can do whatever you want to us, but we're not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America.

      by Eric Stratton on Wed Apr 03, 2013 at 01:31:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  If all was required was to pay a fine (0+ / 0-)

        to come to the U.S.

        The airports and borders would be jammed with millions of  people, fine in hand.

        In some countries, most of the population
        would immigrate to the U.S. if all they needed was a fine payment.

        •  Sunset clauses in these laws aim to stop that. (0+ / 0-)

          A law passed in 2014, for example, would likely require that the alien demonstrate "physical presence" in the U.S. from 2010 or something like that.  They are past-based, so new folks cannot try.  That would be the "risk" factor, I believe.

          Mix the blood and make new people!

          by Yonkers Boy on Wed Apr 03, 2013 at 02:04:39 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  What argument would you (0+ / 0-)

            use in the future to justify refusing to give the same deal indefinitely to people who came after this immigration reform?

            The previous immigration reform in 1986 had such a physical presence date yet here we are today saying why we should ignore that date and use this new 2010 physical presence date you speak of?

            •  That is one of the reasons why effective (0+ / 0-)

              smart, rational, comprehensive immigration reform is so important. Without it, it just becomes this cyclical problem in a constant state of flux. Amnesty then, super fee now, something unpredictable 30 years out.

              Mix the blood and make new people!

              by Yonkers Boy on Thu Apr 04, 2013 at 11:21:21 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  Nice photo. Just over four miles from my house. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Tamar, lgmcp, ivorybill

    So true, decembersue...it's basically been a sort of "slavery light"...taking economic advantage of people while curtailing their rights to do anything about it.

    "We refuse to fight in a war started by men who refused to fight in a war." -freewayblogger

    by Bisbonian on Wed Apr 03, 2013 at 11:30:40 AM PDT

    •  Where is that? I grew up in southern AZ, and (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Bisbonian, ivorybill

      I do not recognize the range in the background.  Thanks.

      Mix the blood and make new people!

      by Yonkers Boy on Wed Apr 03, 2013 at 11:47:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  That's the southern end of the Huachuca Mts. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ivorybill, Larsstephens

        The fence is running right through Naco, just West of town a bit, looking West.

        "We refuse to fight in a war started by men who refused to fight in a war." -freewayblogger

        by Bisbonian on Wed Apr 03, 2013 at 12:49:24 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Oh how sad (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Bisbonian

          to destroy that beautiful desert with a wall like that.  The Huachucas used to be a migration route not just for immigrants, but for jaguars and ocelots too.  At least the birds can fly over it.

          How lucky for you to live where you do.  There's a whole lot of wonderful nature in that part of AZ.

          “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” Charles Darwin

          by ivorybill on Wed Apr 03, 2013 at 12:57:50 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yeah, I don't think the jaguars make it into the (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ivorybill, Larsstephens

            Huachucas any more.  Ocelots, maybe...there are stream crossings they could get through.

            The fence is ugly as sin.  We'll have to get together a diary on it one day.  I even have some video.

            "We refuse to fight in a war started by men who refused to fight in a war." -freewayblogger

            by Bisbonian on Wed Apr 03, 2013 at 01:03:19 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Cool. Thank you. Not too far from Sierra Vista. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Larsstephens

          That photo makes me want to jump on a dirt bike, like a Honda XR500, and just ride as many trails as possible as the sun sets and EVERYTHING cools.  I grew up in the northern part of Tucson before it became what it is today.  When I was a kid, my neighborhood had:  1) Only dirt roads; and 2) No public garbage collection.  It was county living before the massive Californization of southern AZ.  When Canyon Ranch was still a "secret" for rich addicts from Hollywood, and we could dirt bike around around 'em.  Some of the happiest moments of my childhood involve coming home from elementary school, walking up the hill from the bus stop, and kick-starting my little Honda 50 cc to life.  SO MUCH INDEPENDENCE AT 10!

          Mix the blood and make new people!

          by Yonkers Boy on Wed Apr 03, 2013 at 01:19:51 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  The last super fee that we had was in relation to (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Tamar, lgmcp

    a law that is often referred to as 245(i), pronounced "two-forty-five-ai."  It was a provision within the INA, a.k.a. "Immigration & Nationality Act."  On April 30, 2001, it expired.  There was a lot of buzz at the time about extending it AGAIN.  But then September 11 happened . . . .  The super fee at that time was $1000.  It was a wildly popular provision, and it turned out that paying the $1000 super fee was far more doable for many aliens without status than people initially thought.  If we do some type of "super fee" resurrection, raising it to, say, $10,000, it will be the same story.  Lots of money coming in AND many satisfied customers getting their immigrant status normalized/legalized.  Note:  Our government chose to refer to it as a "super fee" rather than a "penalty."  Further note:  Legalized status ALSO means a lot LESS immigration enforcement dollars spent chasing folks who are not criminals.  Remember, immigration law is "administrative," so "illegal alien" must be distinguished from "aggravated-felony-convicted-illegal-alien."

    Mix the blood and make new people!

    by Yonkers Boy on Wed Apr 03, 2013 at 11:31:57 AM PDT

  •  At least 65% of republicans are racists (0+ / 0-)

    that's how to read the "35% support immigration" factoid.

    Rebranding is going swimmingly....

  •  I don't think we should force back taxes and back (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ivorybill

    of the line status and forcing adults to learn a different language.  If we are going to do this, then do it as full amnesty.  If we do this in the way described above...it will take years and years for someone to qualify and even then imagine the red tape.  

    Secure the borders, offer full amnesty for those here or just open the borders and be done with it...and perhaps that is the best way of all.

    The only issue I have with it all...is the jobs issue.  We have high unemployment and once everyone is a citizen....they will no longer have to work under the table and can get an education....and so can compete with the rest of us for middle class jobs and they will likely become even more scarce.  I don't have an answer for this issue....it might be a problem that doesn't have an answer.

    •  I think it is basically essential to understand th (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ivorybill

      language of the country in which you intend to reside.

      My wife's English is quite good: she studied it BEFORE she came here. She actually studied really hard - I have seen her workbooks and talked with her English teacher.

      How MUCH somebody needs to MASTER English is open for debate: my wife's English is better than maybe natural born Americans I have to listen to as they butcher the only language they know.  

      Funny aside: My wife's English teacher and her family also emigrated to America.

      To Arlington texas! She can't understand a damn thing those people say LMAO!

      •  If someone feels they can survive in the U.S. (0+ / 0-)

        without learning those three languages, who are you to tell them they can't.

        Why not German or Swahili or Manderin Chinese too?

        •  I KNEW somebody would complain (0+ / 0-)

          One can't make any normal useful observations or comments here.

          Jesus - do NOT even remotely suggest a person exercize. That is a grave transgression.

          Do NOT make any argument about guns other than they were put here by SATAN and anybody who even thinks of owning one is a wanton killer.

          And, as I had so suspected, don't suggest somebody learn the language of a country they are moving to.

          I wonder what else I shouldn't do......

          Wear a seatbelt? probably get me HR'd.

          3 meals a say? ELITIST!!

          Drive on the right side of the road? CONFORMIST!!!

          What a jungle of neuroses this place has become.

    •  I'm OK with requiring some English skills (0+ / 0-)

      as long as their are waivers for disabled, old folks, etc.  

      I do wish we required a second language to graduate from high school.  The problem is not requiring immigrants to learn some English, the problem is that most of the rest of us don't speak a damn bit of Spanish.  Given history and culture, I think everyone in North America (Mexico, US and Canada) should be able to manage basic conversation in at least two of the following three languages:  English, Spanish or French.  Take your pick.  Most Europeans do this naturally. We can too, provided we start teaching languages early enough.

      “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” Charles Darwin

      by ivorybill on Wed Apr 03, 2013 at 01:03:50 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  English language ability is REQUIRED for (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ivorybill

        citizenship applications, BTW.  There are exceptions for older folks, but it is required.  NO SUCH REQUIREMENT for LPR status, however.

        Mix the blood and make new people!

        by Yonkers Boy on Wed Apr 03, 2013 at 01:43:39 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  oh I know (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Yonkers Boy

          I also know that it's possible to get a waiver.  I know an old Somali woman who was granted a waiver.. made no sense to try to force her to learn English.

          My wider point is that we all ought to be bilingual... I'm not offended by requiring it of immigrants, it's just that what's good for an immigrant is good for a native-born citizen.

          “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” Charles Darwin

          by ivorybill on Wed Apr 03, 2013 at 01:48:59 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Republicans seem to love punitive measures... (0+ / 0-)

    We recently had that story from TN, where they want to cut welfare checks by 30% for families with children who do poorly in school.  

    Then, a few months ago, ND was considering making welfare recipients not only take drug tests, but to pay for them out of their own pockets, to the tune of roughly $100 each.

    This seems to be a variation on the same theme.

    The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -- John Kenneth Galbraith

    by richardak on Wed Apr 03, 2013 at 11:40:29 AM PDT

  •  The proposed penalty provisions are so onerous (0+ / 0-)

    I wonder how many undocumented immigrants will actually ever see legal status.

    I fully agree there should be some penalties.  And, I suppose to an immigrant who has waited for years for the opportunity, a 5 or even 10 year wait for full citizenship is better than nothing, especially is legally allowed to work during that period.

    But, I still wonder if the hoops they will have jump through are too daunting.

    My other question is.. why hasn't anyone mentioned the very large number of visa over-stays?  Will these people be included in the process?  With the same penalties?

    •  Which specific proposed penalties (0+ / 0-)

      Do you consider too onerous?  

    •  Visa overstays (0+ / 0-)

      would certainly be included.  Many undocumented persons got here with valid visas, and not by crossing the border on foot through the desert.  Remember also that many undocumented persons are Polish or Irish... they don't fit our conception of undocumented as Mexican or Central American. There are hundreds of thousands of people from Ireland, Eastern Europe, Asia, Africa etc. who are visa overstays.  They tend to get caught less frequently since enforcement so heavily emphasizes Latino immigrants (and to a lesser extent, Chinese).  

      “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” Charles Darwin

      by ivorybill on Wed Apr 03, 2013 at 01:09:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I also hope the fines aren't excessive (0+ / 0-)

      but you know, many undocumented immigrants have extensive social networks and are able to either depend upon extended families or savings and other resources.  There are hometown associations where people pool resources for investing in their communities or helping members in trouble.  Immigrants, by and large, are pretty resourceful. Most will be able to come up with the fine even if it is thousands of dollars.  People sacrifice $4,000 in smuggling costs all the time - coming up with an equivalent amount in fees, especially if they can pay over time - might not be so horrible in exchange for permanent residence.

      I think there need to be waivers for persons with disabilities, undocumented persons who are fleeing persecution and are otherwise ineligible for asylum or T visas etc.  An undocumented economic migrant who is able to work is likely able to pay a fairly stiff penalty.  I favor lower fees, but if they are higher... and this is what's required to get CIR passed, then so be it.

      “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” Charles Darwin

      by ivorybill on Wed Apr 03, 2013 at 01:14:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The American Dream Republican Style (0+ / 0-)

    Everybody in debt from the get go.

    The Republican party has become the politburo of capitalism. It seeks to direct the direction this country is going NO MATTER WHAT WE THE PEOPLE THINK.

    by tarminian on Wed Apr 03, 2013 at 12:49:57 PM PDT

  •  To clarify, overstays and "entrants without (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Larsstephens

    inspection" a.k.a. "EWIs" are treated very differently from a legal standpoint.  EWIs (pronounced ee-weez) are ineligible to adjust status ("adjusting status" means jumping from non-immigrant to LPR status; whereas "changing status" refers to jumping from one temporary status to another) except in very limited situations, such as in the case of Special Immigrant Juveniles.  Marriage to a USC will NOT cure EWI status.  As I posted above, 245(i) had a provision that would allow and EWI to cure that.  I am not sure what they intend to to with EWIs this time around, but my money is on 245(i) model.  Making EVERYONE to go home to consular process seems and then return seems truly onerous to me.

    Mix the blood and make new people!

    by Yonkers Boy on Wed Apr 03, 2013 at 01:49:24 PM PDT

  •  Forgiveness is only for (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Larsstephens

    white Christian conservatives. End of Teabag story.

    Facts are not proprietary.

    by Msinformed on Wed Apr 03, 2013 at 02:58:49 PM PDT

    •  Quite right, (0+ / 0-)

      Christian male conservatives at that. Punishment however,  they are quite generous with.

      The infliction of cruelty with a good conscience is a delight to moralists. That is why they invented Hell.

      by Wood Gas on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 08:19:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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