Skip to main content

Boehner Disagrees With NRCC Chair’s Criticism Of Obama Budget

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/...

Think about what's going on here.

It was apparently incredibly simple to get the GOP on board with protecting SS.  We now have some of them screeching to protect SS.

On the other hand, we have Boner saying "Whoa, slow down there buddy!"

Does this seem like a party that can reconcile these two forces? This is  a party already strained and fissuring on a myriad of fronts; equality, immigration, guns and demographics.  And now this.

I fail to see how getting your opponents to loudly and vocally support one of your key positions is a bad thing.

I fail to see how using this wedge to put pressure on already existing fractures is a bad thing.

Obama is not running for anything. He can take the heat.

Can the GOP take the heat? You have a party than ran on attacking SS, privatizing it, claiming it's insolvent, it's unnaffordable and running out of money and  it's necessary to cut it and reform it. They've been doing this for years and years.

Do you think they are capable of stopping on a dime and switching their platform without fallout? Do you think they are competent enough to pull off such a maneuver? Of keeping their coalitions together?

Really?

Do you not see a myriad of ways that LOCAL dems running for Congress might capitalize on their sudden change of heart about SS?

"Oh! You agree we should protect SS from cuts! So do I! Glad you've finally come around. Let's do that!"

EMAIL TO A FRIEND X
Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags

?

More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  What key position of ours are they supporting? (13+ / 0-)
    I fail to see how getting your opponents to loudly and vocally support one of your key positions is a bad thing.
    Protecting Social Security? So that's a Democratic key position?

    "I'm sculpting now. Landscapes mostly." ~ Yogi Bear

    by eXtina on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 11:19:57 AM PDT

    •  Yes, It's A Key Position For Me (11+ / 0-)

      and I'm a Democrat.

      This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

      by Beetwasher on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 11:21:20 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  too bad your party isn't supporting your (10+ / 0-)

        position

        "I'm sculpting now. Landscapes mostly." ~ Yogi Bear

        by eXtina on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 11:22:52 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  So are you saying that by proposing cuts to SS, (12+ / 0-)

        President Obama is protecting Democrats?

        •  No, He's Getting The GOP To Support Protecting (10+ / 0-)

          SS from cuts.

          Did you ever think you'd see a full throated, loud vocal support to protect SS from cuts coming from the GOP?

          Do you think that could be exploited somehow?

          This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

          by Beetwasher on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 11:25:25 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

            •  Sometimes you have to destroy the village (18+ / 0-)

              in order to save the village dontachaknow.

              "Do what you can with what you have where you are." - Teddy Roosevelt

              by Andrew C White on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 11:27:46 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  nah, I don't think that's (9+ / 0-)

                what's going on here. I think Beetwasher has a good point. The GOP has just been suckered into screaming about how wonderful SocSec is, after they've spent the last 75 years saying the opposite.

                If we can all back away from the info overwhelm 24/7, we might get some perspective. Give the thing a chance to play out a bit.

                There is no question that there is an unseen world. The problem is, how far is it from Midtown and how late is it open? -- Woody Allen

                by Mnemosyne on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 11:53:44 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  NO! (4+ / 0-)

                  Obama wants poor and old people to die because he's really a Republican.  I mean, why else would do want the Republicans asked?  I don't see any other reason!!!

                  Now, excuse me while return to the echo chamber.

                  "If you don't judge my gold chains...I'll forget the iron chains"-- James "LL Cool J" Todd, GOAT

                  by lcj98 on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 12:11:26 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  15 Democrats and 15 Republicans voted (4+ / 0-)

                  against Social Security in the Senate in 1935.

                  Ike expanded it pretty considerably, particularly in terms of survivors benefits.

                  No Republicans except those catering to the Birchers were attacking it until the very late 1970's.

                   Barry Goldwater, the most far-right Candidate the Republicans fielded between 1932 and 1980, from his official campaign brochure -

                  SOCIAL SECURITY
                  Barry Goldwater wants to safeguard the "security" in Social Security.

                  I favor a sound Social Security system and I want to see it strengthened. I want to see every participant receive all the benefits this system provides. And I want to see these benefits paid in dollars with real purchasing power.

                  Their attacks on it started with Reagan, and given the base they want to play too, it only makes sense for them to pivot back if they want to remain viable.

                  dEar Ellois: U send Fud down holez, we no eaTz u. That iz deAl. No forget. MooRlockz Haz 2 eats. Stoopid Elloiz.

                  by JesseCW on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 12:14:47 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  I hear that point (0+ / 0-)

                  but I think it is faaaaaaaaar weaker then a Democratic President just proposed weakening Social Security and making seniors and the disabled poorer.

                  "Do what you can with what you have where you are." - Teddy Roosevelt

                  by Andrew C White on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 02:07:55 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I guess we'll get to see, (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Andrew C White, aitchdee, Beetwasher

                    won't we?

                    It'll be interesting to see what shakes out of all this.

                    One thing's for sure: No amount of screaming and poutrage on any blog is going to have much of an effect.

                    There is no question that there is an unseen world. The problem is, how far is it from Midtown and how late is it open? -- Woody Allen

                    by Mnemosyne on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 03:12:45 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                •  the GOP hasnt been suckered (0+ / 0-)

                  into anything. If we've learned anything at all in the last half dozen election cycles is that the cognitive dissonance runs strong with the GOP.

                  They are so good at this they can scream to the rafters about how Nobama is cutting SS all the while campaigning on how they are going to cut SS.

                  Just in the same way they screamed that nobama was cutting 700 million from medicare and how awful that was, then they proposed their own budget that kept that same 700 million.

                  they have no problem talking out of both sides of their face because they know that probably 80% of the electorate is either to ignorant to pick up on it, dont care, or simply hate liberals enough that they will accept anything negative about them.

                  Nope, this was simply a mistake, not some intellectual gambit he's just won

            •  Do You Think His Budget Has A Chance In Hell (7+ / 0-)

              of being passed?

              If not, nothing is being destroyed, is it?

              Meanwhile, what is the reality of what is ACTUALLY happening?

              The GOP goes bonkers and comes out supporting protecting SS from cuts.

              The Progressive base is all riled up and motivated to protect SS from cuts.

              I'm looking at what is actually happening, not what you fear might happen, even though you have to admit it's practically impossible to implement since his budget is unpassable.

              This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

              by Beetwasher on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 11:32:09 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I'll take that to be a yes. (15+ / 0-)

                You believe that President Obama is advocating cuts in SS in order to protect SS.

                I can see other similar maneuvers down the pike:

                President Obama advocates a constitutional amendment against same-sex marriage in order to protect same-sex marriage.

                President Obama advocates a constitutional amendment against abortion in order to protect abortion.

                President Obama advocates breaking up the big banks in order to protect the big banks.

                This is fun!

                •  Actually, Same Sex Marriage Is A Perfect Example (4+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Quicklund, JBL55, SilentBrook, aitchdee

                  Since he originally had a position opposed, then the public had a debate, and he "evolved".

                  The same can happen with SS.

                  This is a terrific opportunity to have a debate and discussion and educate the public why it's important to protect SS from cuts.

                  Or should we not even discuss these things?

                  This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

                  by Beetwasher on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 11:42:38 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  More ways to have fun: (8+ / 0-)

                    President Obama advocates a bill for strip mining the entire state of West Virginia in order to protect mountaintops.

                    President Obama advocates opening up public lands for frakking in order to expand the national park system.

                    President Obama advocates a 75% cut to the military budget in order to protect the military.

                    PS: The public is quite well educated on this issue, thank you very much.  Polls show that an overwhelming majority want SS protected from cuts.  It seems that you're going to have to come up with a better rationale.

                    •  You Really Believe The Public Is Well Educated (4+ / 0-)

                      On this issue?

                      Would you be more or less motivated now to vote for a Local Dem Candidate who is running on protecting SS from cuts?

                      This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

                      by Beetwasher on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 11:53:32 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  No - they aren't... (3+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        rigcath, JesseCW, Aspe4

                        Which is exactly why the Dems are going to get creamed in 2014.

                        'Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost' - Ronald Reagan, Communist

                        by RichM on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 12:12:55 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Nice Crystal Ball, Unless The DO Get Educated (3+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          Quicklund, SilentBrook, aitchdee

                          And motivated to get out and vote to protect SS by voting for every Dem candidate they can get their hands on.

                          What are you doing to motivate people to get out and vote?

                          This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

                          by Beetwasher on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 12:16:51 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  The problem is, voters now see the most (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            SpecialKinFlag, Aspe4

                            powerful Democrat in the country proposing cuts to Social Security. Why on earth would that somehow motivate them to vote for Democrats if they want to strengthen SS?

                            "In an individual, selfishness uglifies the soul; for the human species, selfishness is extinction." -Cloud Atlas, by David Mitchell

                            by rigcath on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 12:20:16 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Obama Is Not Running For Office (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            JBL55, SilentBrook, aitchdee

                            Mid terms are all local.

                            Who you gonna trust to protect SS? Your local Dem or your local GOP?

                            This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

                            by Beetwasher on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 12:24:21 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  If I weren't political, I really wouldn't know. (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Aspe4, Bindle

                            You've got the Democratic president proposing SS cuts, the Democratic House Minority Leader supporting them, and division within the Democratic party on the issue now as well. As you point out, prominent members in the GOP are now coming out opposed to the Democrats' proposed cut. At least for the moment, the GOP looks like the party most vocally opposed to SS cuts.

                            "In an individual, selfishness uglifies the soul; for the human species, selfishness is extinction." -Cloud Atlas, by David Mitchell

                            by rigcath on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 12:49:30 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  A Year and A Half From Now (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            JBL55, SilentBrook, aitchdee

                            Do you think non-political people will think the GOP is the party that's about protecting SS?

                            Really? After years and years and years of running against it?

                            This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

                            by Beetwasher on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 12:51:24 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Again, I don't know. And the answer should be NO. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Bindle

                            When has the GOP ever explicitly campaigned on cutting Social Security? Sure, they're proposed "privatizing" it, but to the average voter that is a nebulous term that means next to nothing. If they came out and proposed cutting benefits to current seniors, the way Obama has, voters would rightly reject them, and they know this. Thus why they don't come out and actually propose cuts to SS--because that would effectively end the GOP.

                            I mean, do you really think the GOP won't milk this for all it's worth? They have a blindingly obvious advantage on this until Obama withdraws his proposal (if he even does). If you don't think they're already putting the finishing touches on their SuperPAC ads and lobbying for support from the AARP and all of the other organizations that came out against this SS cut, then you are painfully naive.

                            "In an individual, selfishness uglifies the soul; for the human species, selfishness is extinction." -Cloud Atlas, by David Mitchell

                            by rigcath on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 01:23:44 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  It's A Fine Line To Walk, Even For Competent (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            SilentBrook, aitchdee

                            People.

                            They've been running for 30 years on cutting SS. Both implicitly and explicitly.

                            Boner is already telling his party to shut up about protecting SS.

                            You really think the GOP is competent enough to walk this line?

                            I don't.

                            This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

                            by Beetwasher on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 01:27:30 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Then you're in for a 2010-style surprise. (0+ / 0-)

                            Have fun with your complacency.

                            "In an individual, selfishness uglifies the soul; for the human species, selfishness is extinction." -Cloud Atlas, by David Mitchell

                            by rigcath on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 01:31:41 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Who Said Anything About Complacency? (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            SilentBrook, aitchdee

                            WTF are you talking about?

                            I have repeatedly called for the exact oppossite. This should motivate everyone to get out and vote for every Dem they can get their hands on who is running on a platform of supporting SS.

                            This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

                            by Beetwasher on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 01:44:42 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I mean, are you aware that the GOP ran (0+ / 0-)

                            against (fictional) Medicare cuts in 2010 and won decisively? Despite the fact that the GOP PLATFORM details how they'd dismantle Medicare? Neither they nor voters give a shit what they party traditionally stood for or which party created what program, they just want to know what they'll do now. And Obama's proposed SS cuts muddy the waters about what the Democrats want to do regarding SS. There's no way around that.

                            "In an individual, selfishness uglifies the soul; for the human species, selfishness is extinction." -Cloud Atlas, by David Mitchell

                            by rigcath on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 01:26:12 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Is That Why They Won in 2010? (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            SilentBrook, aitchdee

                            Really?

                            You realize they ran on cutting SS in 2012 and got their asses whooped, right?

                            Now you're telling me two years later they are going to be able to run on protecting SS?

                            You think they are competent enough to pull that off, when they leaders of their own party are telling them to shut up about protecting SS?

                            I'd call that disarray, not a cohesive message.

                            This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

                            by Beetwasher on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 01:31:36 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                        •  And you know this how? (2+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          Beetwasher, SilentBrook

                          "If you don't judge my gold chains...I'll forget the iron chains"-- James "LL Cool J" Todd, GOAT

                          by lcj98 on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 12:18:20 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                      •  In other words, (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        rigcath

                        even though you earlier answered No when I asked you if you were saying that by proposing cuts to SS you thought President Obama was protecting Democrats (see here), you're now saying yes.

                        Glad we got that cleared up.  

                •  Ha!, BizzarObama! nt (0+ / 0-)

                  "The problem with posting quotes off the Internet is you never know if they're genuine."--Gen. George Washington at the Battle of Gettysburg, February 30, 1908

                  by Aspe4 on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 01:19:02 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

            •  It does not matter if he is or isn't (4+ / 0-)

              If the net result in the end works to benefit DEM policy goals, then it doesn't really matter if the President had a Master Plan or if the cookie just crumbled in a benefical way.

              Beetwasher here is just observing that the GOP is taking the short-term easy shots at PBO and in doing so are going on the record in support of SS. Beetwasher is suggesting that might cause long-term complications for the GOP. At worse, it is hard to see how America in 2014 will vote into office enemies of SS, after American in 2013 rallied to protect SS.

              Having SS as a hotbed issue in 2014 is a tide that tends to lift all Democratic boats. Whether the man named Barak Obama foresaw all the twists and turns or not really isn't the point. Barack Obama will never stand for election again.

              •  When has the GOP ever admitted that (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Quicklund

                they were anti SSI? Haven't they always claimed to be preserving it even as they worked to destroy it?

                Nothing human is alien to me.

                by WB Reeves on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 01:36:29 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  My whole life of ~53 years (4+ / 0-)

                  I've heard talk about getting rid of SS on and off for as long as I could remember. I remember because as a kid I really did not believe there were Americans who genuinely hated thought FDR and stuff like SS.

                  Now as for cloaking their intent in words of support for SS ... I would say that varies in direct proportion to the political skill of the specific speaker.

                  I will venture to go one step further. Back when I was a kid some GOP pols might openly speak of killing off SS. But as time has gone on SS opponents have had to reply more and more on cloaking their intent. I submit that is a good sign for the future of SS. (Sort of how racists once felt comfortable about openly being racist.)

                  •  I agree that it's good they must cloak their (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Quicklund

                    agenda.

                    The trouble is they may actually succeed in duping the electorate.

                    Which is why it is important to do nothing which lends a spurious credence to their playacting.

                    Nothing human is alien to me.

                    by WB Reeves on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 02:00:53 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Anything can happen (3+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Beetwasher, SilentBrook, aitchdee

                      But seeing how the bees came buzzing out of the hive over this mild chained CPI change proposal. I seriously doubt the bees will roll over dead for more draconian proposals. And now that the hive has been disturbed I figure, what they heck? Let's hand out poking sticks to GOP candidates - but only after making sure the beer cooler is full. Don't want to miss the show.

                      I don't think we are very far apart at all. Difference of opinion seems to lie in the risk estimate. Which is healthy. None of us has a perfect risk predictor.

          •  Sure it could (7+ / 0-)

            but it is vastly easier to exploit his cutting social security because he's actually proposed doing it, put it on paper and sent it to congress.

            "Do what you can with what you have where you are." - Teddy Roosevelt

            by Andrew C White on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 11:28:39 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Is It? (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Quicklund, SilentBrook, aitchdee

              Really? You think there's a chance in hell his budget could be passed? You think he thinks that?

              This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

              by Beetwasher on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 11:46:58 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  As you pointed out, it doesn't matter if it passes (4+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                RichM, Aspe4, Andrew C White, TracieLynn

                The damage has already been done. The GOP can now say that President Obama is the first Democratic president to propose cuts to Social Security, and that he actually wants to cut it. Whether or not that second part is true doesn't matter because the first part is.

                "In an individual, selfishness uglifies the soul; for the human species, selfishness is extinction." -Cloud Atlas, by David Mitchell

                by rigcath on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 12:04:30 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Except The GOP (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  lcj98, SilentBrook, aitchdee

                  Is in dissarray scrambling to support protecting SS, while Boner is telling them to shut up.

                  This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

                  by Beetwasher on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 12:17:35 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  So what? Again: so what? (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Beetwasher, SilentBrook, aitchdee

                  The GOP can come out and say these things:

                  "Voters! Did you know that President Obama was the first Democratic President to propose cuts to SS*? Now of course that never passed nto law. And of course millions of you wrote, happened, and marched to register your opposition to these cuts. And of course President Obama is not running for office again.

                  So we want you to vote for the GOP. Because we all know how strongly Americans feel about protecting SS, we think it's only logial that you should not vote for the party that wants to destroy SS. See how smoothly logical this idea is?"

                  * In point of fact I wonder if this is even true. SS benefits have been tweaked upwards and downwards before. And prior to 1975, there were not automatic COLA adjustments made annually. It took an act of Congress to authorize a change to benefits. So I am pretty sure that by the hyper-judgemental atmosphere on DKos today, that other DEM Presidents failed to pass a COLA and thus "cut" SS before.
                  •  No, they'll say something more like this: (0+ / 0-)

                    Voters! Did you know that President Obama and the Democrats actually proposed cutting Social Security benefits for current seniors? Why do President Obama and the rubber-stamp Democrats in Congress want your grandmother to live on less? Send the Democrats a message: Don't touch my Social Security. Vote for Steve King/Michelle Bachmann/Paul Ryan.

                    And it'll be massively successful.

                    "In an individual, selfishness uglifies the soul; for the human species, selfishness is extinction." -Cloud Atlas, by David Mitchell

                    by rigcath on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 01:27:20 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

              •  Doesn't matter whether it gets passed (0+ / 0-)

                of course it won't get passed. That misses the point which is that a Democratic President just proposed weakening Social Security and making seniors and the disabled poorer.

                If I was a republican operative I would be hammering Democrats on this for the entire 2014 election cycle... and I'd be very, very effective at it.

                "Do what you can with what you have where you are." - Teddy Roosevelt

                by Andrew C White on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 02:13:02 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  If You Were A GOP Operative Boner Would Be (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  aitchdee

                  Telling you to shut the Fuck up about SS, which is what he's actually doing.

                  This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

                  by Beetwasher on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 06:27:35 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

          •  It's obviously a poor way of going about it, (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            rigcath, Quicklund, Mary Mike

            though.

            He never needed to put SS cuts on the table to maneuver the Republicans into eventually coming out for NOT cutting SS - it could have been part and parcel of either not touching SS or provocatively increasing its collections/payouts (e.g., remove the cap).  The easy PR would place Republicans on their defensive to avoid any semblance of actually cutting the program.

            But, no.  The White House came out forcefully for SS cuts and is at least initially trying to defend that position + sell it to Republicans - not all of whom have taken the bait and recoiled from the subject.  As we've read, there's already acceptance by some Republicans in D.C. for the proposal.

            President Obama has already set himself up to take the blame for future SS cuts, and therefore hurt the Democratic party branding + lend more fuel to the narrative that the two parties are almost exactly the same, which can only hurt our chances in future elections.

            Obama either got lost in the trees of the larger woods with his advisors or has simply made a horrendous choice (logically and politically) for helping to ensure SS's future.

            This is not starting well at all.  It's not appearing likely to end well, either.

            Obama lost it, this time - he really did.

            "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

            by wader on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 12:03:33 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  A Right Leaning Group, I Forget its Name (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            SilentBrook

            has already told Walden to shut up with the leftist rhetoric about protecting the elderly from SS cuts. They said if the repugs have a chance to cut SS they need to take it.

            "The problem with posting quotes off the Internet is you never know if they're genuine."--Gen. George Washington at the Battle of Gettysburg, February 30, 1908

            by Aspe4 on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 01:15:06 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  I finally understand why he tried to cut a deal (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Phoebe Loosinhouse, Bindle

          to re-legalize commercial whaling!

          It should have been so obvious!

          dEar Ellois: U send Fud down holez, we no eaTz u. That iz deAl. No forget. MooRlockz Haz 2 eats. Stoopid Elloiz.

          by JesseCW on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 12:15:49 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  You know I kind of thought that is what is going (9+ / 0-)

    on. It's not 11 dimension. Obama understands he has cooties. So he protects Social Security with his cooties.

    guns are fun v. hey buddy, watch what you are doing -- which side are you on?

    by 88kathy on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 11:20:32 AM PDT

  •  I just can't fathom the work it takes (18+ / 0-)

    to come to this conclusion.  It makes me very tired.

    If this is strategy, it's even worse than what I think it is, which is pretty bad.

  •  I'm getting dizzy from the spin (11+ / 0-)

    I think you are wrong.

  •  Rubio previewed GOP attack against Chained-CPI.. (6+ / 0-)

    ...back in December.

    https://twitter.com/...

    Marco RubioVerified account ‏@marcorubio

    Report that #GOP insisting on changes to social security as part of #fiscalcliff false.BTW those changes are supported by @barackobama.

    1:16 PM - 30 Dec 12

    Learn about Centrist Economics, learn about Robert Rubin's Hamilton Project. www.hamiltonproject.org

    by PatriciaVa on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 11:25:08 AM PDT

  •  Black's 14th level knight to White's 10th level (8+ / 0-)

    rook!

    Uh oh! Too many pieces on the right side of the 20-level chess tower!  It's tipping overrrr!!!!!!!

    "Well, yeah, the Constitution is worth it if you succeed." - Nancy Pelosi // Question: "succeed" at what?

    by nailbender on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 11:25:14 AM PDT

  •  Repubs Aren't Demanding Protection for SS. (12+ / 0-)

    What they're doing is blaming Dems for cutting it.

    Same thing they did at this point in the last midterm cycle, about Medicare. They still want both SS and Medicare ended, they just insist on waiting for a Democrat to make the first offer so we can be beaten in elections over it.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 11:25:31 AM PDT

    •  No, They Are Blaming Obama, There's a Difference (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Quicklund, JBL55, SilentBrook, aitchdee

      And a party that's been running for years and years on cutting SS, do you they will now be effective in assuming the mantle of protecting it?

      Don't you see an opportunity for their sudden change of heart to be exploited? Do you not see the potential?

      This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

      by Beetwasher on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 11:29:15 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  If Obama didn't want to be blamed (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TracieLynn

        for cutting Social Security, maybe he shouldn't have put Social Security cuts in his budget proposal.

        If you officially propose something, people will think you support it.  That's the way it goes.

        You may think that. I couldn't possibly comment.-- Francis Urqhart

        by Johnny Q on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 01:58:28 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  The difference is the '10 cuts were already made (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      WB Reeves, SilentBrook

      Those cuts were baked into the cake with Obamacare. Every Democrat voted for those cuts and Obama signed those cuts. This budget isn't even going to be voted on, in all likelihood. And if it is, it will fail.

  •  Just the Republicans have their problems (6+ / 0-)

    doesn't mean this was brilliant 11th dimension chess on the part of Obama... he is still on record as attacking Social Security and the well-being of seniors and the disabled. It was a bad, bad move born out of this blind spot need to attempt to appeal to Republicans and "serious people" and bring everybody together in a a magical mystical round of kumbaya that will heal the nation.

    He's been a really good President but his irrational and delusional need in this area is crippling what could have been a great presidency.

    "Do what you can with what you have where you are." - Teddy Roosevelt

    by Andrew C White on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 11:26:10 AM PDT

    •  So, You Really Believe He's Irrational and (4+ / 0-)

      Delusional? That truly makes sense to you?

      This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

      by Beetwasher on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 11:29:59 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It would be helpful if you responded (6+ / 0-)

        to the actual comment.

        Saying this:

        his irrational and delusional need in this area
        is not the same thing as saying this:
        You Really Believe He's Irrational and Delusional
        I certainly hope that your defense of what President Obama is doing is better than this.
        •  If He Has An Irrational and Delusional (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Quicklund, SilentBrook, aitchdee

          need, then he is defacto irrational and delusional, at least when it comes to that need.

          It seems you do believe he's irrational and delusional, at least with regard to this subject. If that's what you belive, own it, don't try to run away from it. It's your opinion and you're entitled to it.

          But it is just an opinion.

          This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

          by Beetwasher on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 11:37:25 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Saying something about how any person (4+ / 0-)

            is in one area is very different than saying something about how that person is in general.

            •  And Yet, Your Still Claiming He's Delusional (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Quicklund, SilentBrook, aitchdee

              Even if it's in one area.

              Do you think that makes sense? He's ONLY delusional in one area? Why would that be?

              Let me guess: "I dunno, he just is."

              Don't you think that the fact that this is so inscrutable might suggest that perhaps there's an angle your missing?

              Or are you just so certain that you are right, and he's just delusional, that you wouldn't even consider the possibililty that there are other explanations?

              This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

              by Beetwasher on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 11:44:48 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  The trouble with this Beet (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Bindle

                is that your perspective is as speculative as the view you're criticizing.

                While I think there is some merit to the strategic argument you're making, it doesn't follow that such positioning had anything to do with the President's decision.

                There's really no more evidence that this was some Machiavellian master stroke than there is that it was a political fumble. Less really.

                That said, the strategic points you make are well taken but would probably be better served by not wrapping them in a speculative defense of the President's ostensible political mastery.

                Nothing human is alien to me.

                by WB Reeves on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 12:43:47 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  How do we judge among speculative ideas? (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Beetwasher, aitchdee

                  Do we just toss a coin? Or some other game of change, e.g. rouchambeau?

                  Usually, if we have to gague between speculative ideas (which includes both "Obama's a dupe for this move" and "Obama's playing politics well"), it is more useful to look to history of the people involved.

                  Do you have abundant evidence that Obama routinely gets duped into failing to move progressive policies that prevously seemed unreachable pipe dreams/campaign promises? Or is there abundant evidence that Obama routinely plays politics well (i.e., repealing DADT, passing Obamacare)?

                  As for your sugestion that the diarist not make a speculative defense of the President, I was unaware that this site only allowed postings from those making speculative criticism of the President (as has been abundantly pursued here on the GOS recently). Balance is called for, not silence. Particularly when much speculation has been based on little more than fear that Obama will betray us all because we haven't gotten every progressive ideal in the face of intractable and unprecedented oppositon.

                  PrezObama's only mistake in the sequester is that he assumed that the Republicans would be more loyal to their oath of office to serve the people than their oath to Norquist to never close tax loopholes.

                  by SilentBrook on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 03:25:23 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

          •  Not in this case... the facts speak for themselves (3+ / 0-)

            "Do what you can with what you have where you are." - Teddy Roosevelt

            by Andrew C White on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 11:43:07 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  On this issue the facts speak for themselves (4+ / 0-)

        throughout his presidency he has attempted to get his "grand bargain" with the Republicans and he has proposed republican idea after republican idea in an attempt to get them to agree to his "bargain" only to have them back away and say "not good enough."

        That ... is the definition of irrational and delusional.

        "Do what you can with what you have where you are." - Teddy Roosevelt

        by Andrew C White on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 11:42:20 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Those Whose Behavior Is Easily Predictable (4+ / 0-)

          Are the easiest to manipulate.

          This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

          by Beetwasher on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 11:51:05 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Spoken like a gamer (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            SilentBrook, aitchdee, Beetwasher

            Are you one?

            One advantage the gamer mindset has over non-gamers' is that gamers understand how the same starting condition can lead to hugely different results depending upon the flow of events. That because an event happened, that does not mean it was likely to happen. And so forth.

            I too see - at least - potential for 2014 here. It can only help DEMS to have the American people push SS up to the top of the issues list. When SS is #10 on the list, it does not affect elections much. But if the nation is still motivated over SS in the 2014 campaign ... then GOP candidates are going to have to thread a lot of needles to get through the GOP primaries and in the generals.

            •  I Deal With Fluid, Complex Negotiations (0+ / 0-)

              and human behavioral analysis on a regular basis.

              And let's just say the study of group psychosocial dynamics and psychohistory is a bit of a hobby of mine.

              This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

              by Beetwasher on Fri Apr 12, 2013 at 08:00:35 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Good point (0+ / 0-)

            and guess who got manipulated into proposing cutting Social Security? The guy who endlessly tries to get the opposition to the table by proposing what they want and then gets rejected anyhow.

            "Do what you can with what you have where you are." - Teddy Roosevelt

            by Andrew C White on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 02:16:58 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Really? He Got Manipulated Into Cutting SS? (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              SilentBrook, aitchdee

              When did that happen? I missed the cuts being implemented.

              This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

              by Beetwasher on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 02:23:45 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  You need to read better n/t (0+ / 0-)

                "Do what you can with what you have where you are." - Teddy Roosevelt

                by Andrew C White on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 02:38:10 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I Read Just Fine, I Changed It For A Reason (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  SilentBrook, aitchdee

                  I'm interested in results, not proposals.

                  So what, he proposed it? And the GOP will say "Obama proposed it!"

                  Has it been IMPLEMENTED?

                  No.

                  You see, you seem to think that your OPINION that he WAS manipulated into doing this, is fact. It's not. It's your opinion that he was manipulated.

                  If the GOP decides to try to implement cuts, and say "Well, Obama propsed it!!", do you think it will make one bit of a difference?

                  Has that ever worked? "He proposed it first!!!"

                  As soon as they  try to implement it, it's theirs. Obama ain't running for anything ever again.

                  This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

                  by Beetwasher on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 02:42:19 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  If you are going to ignore what is being said (0+ / 0-)

                    to you then you may as well talk to yourself because that is exactly what you are doing.

                    If you'd like to engage in political conversation with other people then please be respectful enough to actually read what they write, listen to what they say, and engage in that conversation not the one you make up in your own mind all by yourself. That's just rude and inconsiderate.

                    "Do what you can with what you have where you are." - Teddy Roosevelt

                    by Andrew C White on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 05:25:26 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  You Havent Said Anything (0+ / 0-)

                      I'm still waiting on an actual argument from you that's topical and all these supposes facts of yours that apparently speak for themselves.

                      This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

                      by Beetwasher on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 05:50:05 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

  •  DANG, AIN'T THAT OBAMA CLEVER (12+ / 0-)

    When I hit 70 and still have 5 more years before I can retire, I'll be chuckling into my catfood.

  •  Alrighty then (6+ / 0-)

    what hit are republicans taking from this alleged 'punking'?

    "I'm sculpting now. Landscapes mostly." ~ Yogi Bear

    by eXtina on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 11:32:43 AM PDT

  •  this doesn't work for me (4+ / 0-)

    GOP still screeches about tax cuts which is what you need to undo to get anywhere with a more balanced economy.  

    Offering the SS cuts just gives the GOP ammunition to completely gut it when they take over again.  "well the Dems even offered to cut SS when they had power'.  

  •  Beetwasher is absolutely correct. (7+ / 0-)

    Contrary to popular (read: Progressive) belief, politics is a complex business. One that requires more than just a singular attention span.

    That's why some of the most intelligent people in history (ours and elsewhere) were driven to politics.

    Some just aren't cut out for it. That fact is evident here.

  •  That was my taught exactly (8+ / 0-)

    he has finally forced these guys to either support and vote for SS cut .

  •  I can't see it (7+ / 0-)

    You get one chance in your eight years as President to violate the Third Rail, and you either violate it or you don't. The tale of this man's presidential legacy has done been told.

    I don't think it's a scintillating and breathtaking case of eleventeenth dimensional chess. I don't think it's anywhere near as nuanced as you suggest, despite how GOP losers may or may not be responding to it.

    I think it's just what it looks like. This president sold us out.

    Take your hands off my fkn Third Rail.

    by thenekkidtruth on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 11:37:57 AM PDT

  •  Yeah, right (5+ / 0-)

    His opening gambit is to move in the Republicans' direction while they don't move at all.  A master plan!  What a tactical genius.

  •  Dizzying intellect. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RichM, blueoasis

    Truly.

    All this happened, more or less. The war parts, anyway, are pretty much true. - Kurt Vonnegut
    It's a very frightening time when something as basic as due process is seen as somehow radical. - John Cusack

    by dadoodaman on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 11:53:39 AM PDT

  •  I still think (5+ / 0-)

    he finally called their bluff. No one will remember who called for it when all is said and done but they will remember who voted for it. President Obama is never going to be on a ballot again but whoever votes for it will be. Republicans are never going to vote for this and no democrat is going to vote for it either so for me this is a win -win situation.

  •  It's like a religion... (0+ / 0-)

    'The Bible says the world is flat - therefore the Bible is true!'

    Um, the world is round - here are the models that prove it.

    'The Bible says the universe revolves around the earth - therefore the Bible is true!'

    Um, the earth rotates around the sun, which rotates around the galaxy - here are the models to prove it.

    'The Bible says God created the world in 7 days - therefore the Bible is true!'

    Here are all the fossil records, models of radio active decay, speed of light information, etc.  The universe came into existence 14.7 billion years ago.  Earth can into existence 4 billion years ago.  Here are the models to prove it.

    In the same way:

    'Obama would never propose cuts to social security, he would just never do that!'

    Well, it has been part of the Grand Bargain at least since 2011.  And he just put it in his latest budget.  So that disproves that.

    'Obama doesn't really want to defund social security, he just wants to get Republicans to own it!'

    ...

    'Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost' - Ronald Reagan, Communist

    by RichM on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 12:22:25 PM PDT

    •  hm... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SilentBrook, aitchdee

      No.

      "If you don't judge my gold chains...I'll forget the iron chains"-- James "LL Cool J" Todd, GOAT

      by lcj98 on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 12:31:28 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Except I Don't Recall Ever Saying He Would Never (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JBL55, SilentBrook, aitchdee

      Propose it.

      And I don't believe Obama wants to defund SS, he's come out and said his plan is not ideal and he's only including this as compromise.

      I believe him, you don't. There's no facts there though that you can claim. It's opinion. You think he's lying about his motives. I don't.

      This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

      by Beetwasher on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 12:31:35 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  He has stated on several occasions... (0+ / 0-)

        That 'everything is on the table'.  'I don't believe Obama wants to defund SS'  Religion.l

        'Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost' - Ronald Reagan, Communist

        by RichM on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 12:42:13 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You Have Psychic Powers? That's Cool! (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          SilentBrook, aitchdee

          Tell me what else motivates Obama! What's he thinking right at this moment!

          Must be something like "Gosh, I can't wait to screw over all those old people and make them eat cat food!"

          Right?

          This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

          by Beetwasher on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 12:43:54 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I don't know him... (0+ / 0-)

            I can only go by his actions.  He proposed cutting social security.  Period.  I don't really know why he did it, I only know that he did it.  Saying he did it because he wanted to make the GOP look bad simply doesn't make any sense.  Yes, time will tell, but I see no evidence that it will work.  Chained-CPI is a benefit cut.  Why a Democratic President would even propose it is beyond me.  But apparently, it's because he is playing hyper-dimensional chess.

            'Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost' - Ronald Reagan, Communist

            by RichM on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 12:58:47 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  What Actions? Has He CUT SS? (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              SilentBrook

              Or do you mean his policies that he has, you know, actually IMPLEMENTED.

              Like the largest expansion of medicare and medicaid since it's inception. That action?

              Or how about the funding for Community Health Centers?

              Or do you only cherry pick the actions that you think make him look bad?

              This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

              by Beetwasher on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 01:00:48 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Oh brother... (0+ / 0-)

                He has PROPOSED Chained-CPI on multiple occasions.  Back to my religion statement - so when he signs a budget that has Chained-CPI in it, will you 'believe it' then, Doubting Thomas?

                'Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost' - Ronald Reagan, Communist

                by RichM on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 01:50:48 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Actually, If I See His Budget Actually Get A Vote (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  SilentBrook

                  I'd be shocked, and I'm sure so would.

                  You realize of course, there's not a snowball's chance in hell that his budget will ever even get voted on, don't you?

                  Do you think Obama doesn't know that? Or is he too stupid to understand that, in your opinion?

                  This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

                  by Beetwasher on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 01:54:01 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

  •  Dems Vote No, GOP Votes Yes, Dems WIn 2014 (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bufffan20, JBL55, SilentBrook

    While the Tea Partiers scream that once again the GOP has mysteriously wimped out.

    There’s always free cheddar in a mousetrap, baby

    by bernardpliers on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 12:31:36 PM PDT

  •  Silly "rope a dope" didn't work with the sequester (0+ / 0-)

    did it? There is nothing to indicate it will work with this.  It is just lame.  No, he will not spring into the sky singing "Mighty Barack is here to save the day" as much as you might wish it so.

    •  Did You Want Him To Stand His Ground? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Heftysmurf, SilentBrook

      Should he have capitulated to the GOP so we didn't have the sequester?

      Or should he somehow have forced them to do his bidding so we wouldn't have the sequester?

      I thought we were supposed to support him NOT caving to the GOP and that we wanted to go over the cliff instead of capitulating?

      Silly me, I can't keep track about whether I'm supposed to be outraged that he stood his ground and went over the cliff, or am I supposed to be outraged that he didn't cut a deal?

      This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

      by Beetwasher on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 12:37:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Mr. Obama proposed the sequester as a "ploy" (0+ / 0-)

        supposedly. Just as he is the one who put the disastrous "Cat-Food" Commision in a position of influence.  It was he.  OUR president.  Barack Obama.

        Did you not listen to all the promises he made?  He has ignored or done the opposite of many of the policies on which he proposed and which he got elected. Now, this Social Security cut is the last straw for me.  It is silly and vain for him to play it out this way.  This way we all get hurt, him included.

        AT SOME POINT one must look at his actions and not his rhetoric.  It is a case of "do you believe what I say or trust your lying eyes?"

        •  What Action? Has He Implemented SS Cuts? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          SilentBrook

          Or do you mean his expansion of medicare and medicaid, those actions?

          Or how about the tax increases on the wealth, those actions?

          This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

          by Beetwasher on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 12:58:33 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Okay, I don't have a lot of patience with this (0+ / 0-)

            kind of back a forth because we obviously live in different universes.  But here is an unorganized taste:

            1.)  He promised a radical overhaul of the the pharma and healthcare insurance industry.  For one thing he promised universal IT which would have save lots of money and some lives too.  Result!  A weak healthcare bill that is actually patterned after the bill Romney wrote for his state when he was a governor. Besides there being no public option,there are many problems with this bill not the least is the state by state "opt in, opt out" setup.
            2.)  He promised transparency and due attention to law and civil rights.  Result!  FISA court, Guantanamo still open, Drone Attacks, Under the table deals with Big Pharma, Bankers get a mulligan, and the crooks that helped cause the real estate bubble get a seat at the table......on and fucking on and on ....

            •  So, The Answer Is No, There Are No SS Cuts (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              fou, SilentBrook

              That have actually been implemented.

              There is however the largest expansion of Medicare and Medicaid since their inception.

              There is insurance coverage for people with pre-existing conditions.

              There is funding for community health centers.

              And on and on.

              But feel free to continue to cherry pick the things you think make him look bad.

              This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

              by Beetwasher on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 01:14:16 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  lmao (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RichM, terrybuck

    I love the reasoning.  Where have I seen this before?

    Offering up cuts to SS = Forcing R's to support SS
    Drones = Making friends
    Terrorists = Anyone killed by a drone

    Pretzels aren't just for snacking anymore.

    •  You Know My Positions on Drones and Terrorists? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SilentBrook

      Really? Pray tell.

      True or false: There are members of the GOP scrambling all over themselves to oppose cuts to ss now.

      I look at results. What do you look at?

      This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

      by Beetwasher on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 12:39:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  11-Dimensional Chess? (0+ / 0-)

     photo 2-kids-playing-checkers.jpg

    Done with politics for the night? Have a nice glass of wine with Palate Press: The online wine magazine.

    by dhonig on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 12:38:39 PM PDT

  •  Would not go so far as to say PBO has achieved it (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Beetwasher, JBL55, fou, SilentBrook

    We will see how matters play out over time. But I have had similar thoughts. I'm not prepared to say that this issue will turn out to favor the GOP or the DEMS or maybe it will be just a big ado over nothing.

    But one thing seems sure to me. The simplistic claim that because PBO introduced this budget means SS will be on the chopping block in 2014 seems downright absurd. Those simplistic claim that this issue will put DEMs on the defense in 2014 does not rise to the level of absurdity. That could turn out to be true. But it is not a foregone conclusion and what is more, it is the less-likely scenario.

    Let us consider what has happened and what is likely going forward.

    A) PBO proposed this budget with the chained-CPI change along with other modifications.

    B) Public outcry has been large and negative. This reinforces the '3rd rail of American politics' CW.

    C) Republicans, predictably, try to take short-term advantage and put the boot it. In doing so they stake out a position in favor of protecting CPI.

    D) One of the most predictable things in DC is that the GOP House will not vote to pass this proposal. It has got the name "Obama" attached to it.

    E) Time will pass and this issue will be put behind us. So what might happen?

    Maybe Americans will forget all about it. In which case this ado is a big nothing.

    More likely is the scenario where one or both parties use this issue in the 2014 campaign. So how will the DEMS use it?

    "Democrats created SS in the New Deal and we've protected it many times since then, including just in the 2013 budget debate."  This message will play in the general election and in the DEM primaries.

    How will the GOP use the issue? Well, that's harder to forsee. If they go half-heartedly, or if they use doublespeak like Romney did with his "Obama cut $716B from Medicare (the program we want to destroy entirely)" well IMO they can go ahead. It didn't work in 2012 and doublespeak won't work in 2014.

    Except doublespeak will get you through the GOP primaries.

    Or will the GOP be sincere in their pledges to support SS? The more sincere they are, the more likley that candidate will get a primary challenge. And the more emnphasis GOP candidates put on saving SS, the more likely SS is to be protected from future cuts.

    Professional politicians actually do notice groundswells of opinion.

    So while we cannot say how things will play out 16 months from now, we can still see there is tremendous maneuver room for shred DEM candidates to run well in 2014. Having the nation abuzz to protect SS is hardly a nightmare for the DEMOCRATIC Party.

    Those who cannot see any beneficial strategy for DEMs in 2014 based on the SS issue ... well ... that's an astounding lack of imagination on display there.

    •  Well if this does turn out to have been (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Quicklund, Beetwasher, JBL55

      the political ploy that Beet suggests, it will mean that the President is one of the all time high stakes gamblers in US political history. Not sure I buy that but there are opportunities here for local Democrats in the run up to 2014.

      Nothing human is alien to me.

      by WB Reeves on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 12:53:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Sounds reasonable (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Beetwasher, WB Reeves, JBL55, SilentBrook

        One quibble though is I don't see this as particularly high stakes in that there was little chance of it passing into law. But I see the way you are using it so I will not do more than mention that part. The bottlom line we have common ground on is much more important.

        Not sure I buy that but there are opportunities here for local Democrats in the run up to 2014.
        •  I would suggest (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JBL55, Quicklund, SilentBrook

          not making the mistake of those who insist that the question of the President's motives is the central issue.

          Nothing human is alien to me.

          by WB Reeves on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 01:48:09 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  We See A Lot Of People Who Do That (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            WB Reeves, JBL55, Quicklund, SilentBrook

            Who insist it's Obama's fervent desire to cut SS and excoriate him for that.

            I see many people say "I take Obama at his word that he WANTS to cut SS!! Are you saying he's a liar?!"

            Then, when I point out that actually, if you take him at his word, he very clearly explains that his inclusion of Chained CPI is not his ideal choice and is only doing it as a compromise, I am met with resounding silence.

            This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

            by Beetwasher on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 01:59:59 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Yes I know (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Beetwasher, Quicklund, SilentBrook

              I've yet to hear a coherent, convincing explanation for this focus on the President's political character.

              I've been on the Left long enough that I can imagine a rationale for it but I prefer to let people speak for themselves, rather than passing off my guesses as fact.

              Nothing human is alien to me.

              by WB Reeves on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 02:08:15 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  That resounding silence (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Beetwasher

              comes from the fact that the ultimate premise for many of them sounds better in when written in the original German.

              PrezObama's only mistake in the sequester is that he assumed that the Republicans would be more loyal to their oath of office to serve the people than their oath to Norquist to never close tax loopholes.

              by SilentBrook on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 03:34:41 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  I wouldn't count on this (3+ / 0-)

    Obama puts a high premium on conflict avoidance.  (This is a good personal attribute for foreign policy.)  As such, he tends to buy into the 80% consensus model of leadership.  Furthermore, he tends to regard closing on broad agreements as more important than his own policy views.

    Thus, the grand bargains.  The problem here is that he really is a center-center-left politician up against extremists on the other side.  The Republicans don't give a damn what they break.  A large chunk of their base would view a financial collapse as a positive outcome.  They don't just take hostages, sometimes they shoot them, as happened with the sequester.  They don't even care if they lose the election in 2014 (there will be enough of them left to continue to obstruct and subvert).

    Oh, yes.  They didn't come up with this strategy on their own.  Before the late 1960s, they were obsessed with Marxist-Leninist political strategy (and to some degree Che Guevara and other Latin American revolutionaries); after 1968, they were obsessed with the American new left.  They fused tactics from all of this, mated it to their native neo-confederate ideology, and this is the result.

    The problem is that nobody except for a subset of the left is calling these people out as the terrorists and extremists that they are.

  •  This is many, many (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    terrybuck

    more dimensions of chess than I can comprehend. I guess I'm just an idiot lib and should sit down and embrace the majesty.

  •  President Obama Is In It Up To His Wa Wa (0+ / 0-)

    President Obama and Wallstreet CEOs and Big business CEOs and third way are all in it to cut social security.  I don't know why President Obama got talked into this, but he is in the shit now.  Only way he can stop his trainwreck is to take back his proposed cuts to SS.  Anythng else is might as well do nothing.

    "Don't Let Them Catch You With Your Eyes Closed"

    by rssrai on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 12:54:58 PM PDT

  •  Prompting GOP freakout is definitely one objective (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Beetwasher, SilentBrook

    of the budget.

    the question is will the Democratic freakout be worth the price?

    personally, I don't think the president's main political focus with this is Soc Sec. it's really the idea the budget decision making must be made in a crisis environment according to terms set by the GOP. they've screamed about a problem of their own making (debt) for years, and then used it as a ax to attack programs they oppose for other reasons. and they've gotten away with it without the political price they should be paying. POTUS is trying to find a way to take that issue off the table OR make them pay a price for keeping it there. I am not sure that the approach he's taking will get him there, but I am pretty sure that is the goal.

  •  This takes "looking for the pony" to a new level (0+ / 0-)

    One failed attempt at a shoe bomb and we all take off our shoes at the airport. Thirty-one school shootings since Columbine and no change in our regulation of guns. --- John Oliver

    by voroki on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 02:30:20 PM PDT

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site