Skip to main content

We were all shocked last week at the Boson Marathon bombs, hoping against hope in the early stages that it was an accident of poorly maintained infrastructure, and after we knew it was terrorism that the bastards were working alone and would be caught.

Just four days later one had died shooting it out with police, and the other is captured and alive.  Dzhokhar A. Tsarnaev is in custody and we'll be able to learn his reasons and ensure that it really is a couple schnooks with a grievance and not a larger play.  The local, state and federal governments did an awesome job working together to get this done.

But just before the bombing the United States Senate voted on a bill that would ensure that bad people -- the mentally ill, convicted killers, and, say, gol-darned terrorists! -- are prevented from getting weapons.  The GOP decided this was a bad idea and blocked the bill.

As a result, if Dzhokhar A. Tsarnaev --  a terrorist who killed three people and injured hundreds -- is convicted and serves out his time he can walk into a gun show and buy an AR-15 with a hundred round clip without a background check.  Walk in, buy the gun, walk out and maybe visit another Boston Marathon.

I'd love to see Harry Reid rename the bill "Background Checks for Tsarnaev" and bring it up for a vote on Monday.  Let them vote against it then.

Originally posted to huntsu on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 05:08 AM PDT.

Also republished by Shut Down the NRA and Repeal or Amend the Second Amendment (RASA).

EMAIL TO A FRIEND X
Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags

?

More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  Good post, but (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sherri in TX, marykk, RUNDOWN

    ...we don't know this yet:

    that the bastards were working alone
    Otherwise, great idea

    "Corruptio Optimi Pessima" (Corruption of the best is the worst)

    by zenox on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 05:14:18 AM PDT

  •  Gun Angle (29+ / 0-)

    While the bombing is getting center stage, I would like to know the details on the guns they obtained to shoot and kill an MIT Police officer, wounded another person and "terrorized" a small community with two gun battles with police.

    What types of guns were they?

    What size were the clips they used?

    How did they get the guns?

    Did they pass background checks to get them?

    Did they get them at Gun Shows?

    Did they use a straw purchaser, and if so who?

    Did they steal them?

    These are the questions I would like answered!

    "Some men see things as they are and ask, 'Why?' I dream of things that never were and ask, 'Why not?"

    by Doctor Who on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 05:33:21 AM PDT

    •  The right has no problem with violence (12+ / 0-)

      only with Wrong People being violent.

      That's why Sandy Hook doesn't faze them, and why making Sandy Hook into a cause celebre offends them.

      And why they're mad Boston both wasn't worse, was done by Wrong People and didn't kick-start Civil War 2.0 - and worst of all, that civilization not mob rule carried the day.

    •  Just one of the many reasons (9+ / 0-)

      I was so happy Dzokhar was taken alive.  There's a chance now we'll get answers to exactly those questions -- and many more!

      When the union's inspiration /Through the workers' blood shall run /There can be no power greater /Anywhere beneath the sun /Solidarity Forever!

      by litho on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 06:27:51 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  You think it matters? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Heart of the Rockies, RUNDOWN

      Even if the guns were all obtained by illegal means, the gun nuts would just say, see criminals will find a way to get guns so we need to make it easier for law abiding citizens.   You can't reason with these people.  I mean, shit the amendments that couldn't even get a vote in the Senate were labeled fascists.  At some point you just become entrenched in your own position you will say or do anything, however absurd, to defend it.  There is no use of logic here.  

      •  Force them to defend their position in public (3+ / 0-)

        We all agree that president is a compelling speaker.  Starting next week, why doesn't he go to states of senators who voted no and make the points outlined in this diary and in the comments?  Make it clear that the purpose of this bill is to at least try to make it more difficult for the likes of these brothers to assemble arsenals.

        It's time to quit F'ing around here.  FDR once called our country the arsenal of democracy--now, it's merely an arsenal.  While I still think it's an embarrassment that the automatic weapons ban went from 61 aye votes in '94 to 40 aye votes this week, make every effort to at least pass a background check bill.

        A party that can't get a bill supported by roughly 90% of public through a chamber where it has a 55-45 majority is in dire shape.  There's no excuse for not ratcheting up the pressure.

        Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream of things that never were and ask why not?

        by RFK Lives on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 09:20:52 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  As Jon Stewart pointed out, (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Miggles, white blitz, greengemini

        that is simply an argument against ever having any laws. If you pass a law, criminals will just break it. In fact, he points out, why even lock your front door. Criminals will just break in.

        For if there is a sin against life, it consists perhaps not so much in despairing of life as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this life. - Albert Camus

        by Anne Elk on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 10:40:40 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  "serves his time"? (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    marykk, happy camper, Anne Elk, Miggles

    Do you really think the bomber will ever see the outside of a prison for the rest of his life? In my view a poor example.

    "let's talk about that"

    by VClib on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 05:34:45 AM PDT

    •  Alas, murder charges carry a lengthy 'time' (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      doraphasia

      Is there a non-life sentence that would be appropriate?

    •  It's a "what if" (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Miggles

      No, I don't really expect that unless he wins an insanity defense, which is incredibly rare unless you're in a TV show.  

      But the point is that people like him are able to get guns because of the gun show and private sale loophole.

      The guns they had when shooting at police and killing the MIT guard would not have been prevented by a background check, but it Tsarnaev had gotten away and gone to a gun show he'd have been able to get more guns because of no background check.

      •  GOP Wants People Like Tsarnev to .. (0+ / 0-)

        Be Able To Buy Guns With No Background Checks.

        Even if a court of law determines that someone is a hazard to themselves and others, they must be able to buy weapons as long they aren't currently incarcerated, or on an airplane.

  •  This morning I learned (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    drmah, white blitz

    the remaining living brother is a foreign born US citizen.

    Are we going to start hearing the cries of a failed immigration policy now?

    If they can make it Obama's fault, they will certainly blame him.

    We've been spelling it wrong all these years. It's actually: PRO-GOP-ANDA

    by Patriot4peace on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 06:37:56 AM PDT

    •  As an Italian-American (5+ / 0-)

      I know this ruse is used to prop up immigration policy from way back.

      And it doesn't seem to go away, even when your ethnic group seems to be fully assimilated.

      Rumors of having family members in the Mafia plagued Mario Cuomo.  They are now plaguing Chris Christie.

      Frankly they plague a whole lot of innocent Americans of Italian descent.

      Even if these politicians (and others) did have family members who were mob connected, they should in no way be tarred.

      And even if an innocent man or woman has a relative who has a terrorist, they should not be tarred.

      This is true even if they are "naturalized" citizens.

      The sins of the fathers should not be visited on the sons and daughters.

      The highest form of spiritual practice is self observation with compassion.

      by NCJim on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 06:52:20 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  "Those son's of bitches stole my (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        NCJim

        Italianess from me." That line from Betsy's Wedding really stuck with me, although I might not have it completely right. The father of the bride is having a conversation with his dead father (a hallucination more than a ghost). The immigrant father changed his last name because the reputation of Italian mobsters.

        •  I could not watch the Sopranos (0+ / 0-)

          I tried.

          I know it is critically acclaimed.

          It just made me cringe.  It was so full of ugly stereotypes.

          I had to turn it off.

          The highest form of spiritual practice is self observation with compassion.

          by NCJim on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 09:24:32 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  If he's a citizen ... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Patriot4peace

      then he came in during the Bush years.  

  •  Older Brother had been investigated by FBI yet (9+ / 0-)

    still was able to get guns.  This is so Republican!

    •  I'm recommending this yet (6+ / 0-)

      I thought of this too.  

      However, I also thought of all of the innocent college students (and Quakers, and pacifists) who were watched and interviewed by the FBI during the Vietnam War era.

      I do think we have to be careful here.

      Just because the government keeps a record of real property transfers, it doesn't mean that the government wants to confiscate your home.

      by NCJan on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 07:02:31 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  True- investigated is very different (3+ / 0-)

        from convicted. And should be.
        He was also arrested for domestic violence in 2009, but so far I'm not sure how that was resolved.

      •  I'm Quaker ... (5+ / 0-)

        and have been investigated and interviewed by the FBI.

        There's a big difference between watching and interviewing people based on their political beliefs and ensuring that weapons intended to kill human beings don't get into the hands of people likely to kill human beings.  

        The argument against registering guns is that the ownership of guns is a right guaranteed by the Constitution, so registering them would violate that right.

        But we're guaranteed the right to own property (including intellectual) by the Constitution, so what right does the government have to do register them?  Deeds for land?  Registering cars? Copyright and trademark offices?  If you don't object to registering these thins, I have no idea why you would oppose background checks for firearms.

        Heck, copyright was included in the original Constitution, and arms were only included as an amendment after it passed.

        Frankly, I just don't see why firearms -- many of them solely intended to harm humans and not for hunting or sports -- have a special niche carved out for them.  We limit access and require registration for dangerous chemicals, rocket propelled grenades, fertilizer, explosives, decongestants all because of their potential to be used to harm people.  Firearms are just not that special.

        •  BTW (0+ / 0-)

          The "you" is not you, but the generic you.

        •  I'm a Quaker too (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          huntsu

          And I totally agree with you about guns and the second amendment.  Check out my sig line.

          I'm just saying that I don't know how well any FBI list will distinguish between those who hold "suspect" political beliefs and violent criminals.

          Thanks for helping me to clarify, Friend.

          Just because the government keeps a record of real property transfers, it doesn't mean that the government wants to confiscate your home.

          by NCJan on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 07:41:10 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Investigated and cleared. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Miggles, white blitz

      The request for an investigation came from Russia. Nice how they used the FBI to harass a Chechen in the USA.

      For if there is a sin against life, it consists perhaps not so much in despairing of life as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this life. - Albert Camus

      by Anne Elk on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 10:42:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I'm ALL for Gun Control Legislation BUT... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Anne Elk

    The background check legislation that was up for vote in the Senate, if it was law, couldn't have prevented Dzhokhar Tsarnaev or his brother Tamerlan Tsarnaev from getting their guns.  In fact, if the previous news of their history showed no criminal record, they STILL could could have gotten a gun, and get it legally.

    I'm interested to see how they obtained their guns.

    Glad the GOP/NRA fought for their 2nd Amendment Rights.  

    I'm sure Sean Collier and his family are happy too. (Sarcastic)

    Conservatives say if you don't give the rich more money, they will lose their incentive to invest. As for the poor, they tell us they've lost all incentive because we've given them too much money. -GC

    by cobaltbay on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 07:35:47 AM PDT

    •  Not from getting them BEFORE (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Bob B

      but this post is talking about after.  

      Let's say he escapes (silly, but still).  The folks who voted against background checks want him tom be able to go to a gun show and get a gun with no background check.

      Let's say he wins an insanity defense (rare, but still), spends 15 years in a sanitarium and is released.  The folks who voted against background checks want him tom be able to go to a gun show and get a gun with no background check.

      Let's say he gets life but the possibility of parole, is a model prisoner and gets out in 40 years at 59 years old.  The folks who voted against background checks want him tom be able to go to a gun show and get a gun with no background check.

      Let's say he is convicted, spends 60 years in jail and is given a compassionate release because of terrible cancer.  The folks who voted against background checks want him tom be able to go to a gun show and get a gun with no background check.

  •  We need to give up on the (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    coquiero

    gun registration thing. Really. We need to focus on the bullet registration thing. Background checks to buy bullets. Ten day wait to buy bullets. Only three bullets at a time are allowed to touch each other. Takes care of the high capacity magazines. I swear, repubs are so stupid you could slip this right by them.
    I know, not funny. Just tired of all the games that the childish bastards in DC are playing. Games that are killing people...

    "If fighting for a more equal and equitable distribution of the wealth of this country is socialistic, I stand guilty of being a socialist." Walter Reuther

    by fugwb on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 07:39:36 AM PDT

  •  were they on the watchlist (0+ / 0-)

    had they ever committed a crime before?

  •  One problem is... (0+ / 0-)

    ...they weren't terrorists until AFTER the bombing.  If there was nothing in their background, then a background check wouldn't have prevented them from legally obtaining firearms.  Also, there are no confirmed details about the firearms they had, so it is only conjecture at the moment about what they were and how they got them.  

    Massachusetts already has some of the strictest gun laws in the United States with restrictions on "large capacity guns" (they don't use the term "assault weapon"), but basically it is a State-wide assault weapon ban. There was also already a ten round limit to magazines.  To own ANY firearm the person must have one of the State firearm identification card or one of licenses (there are a couple different types depending upon firearms owned and the ability to carry).

    The sequester is the new Republican immigration reform plan. Make things so bad here in the US that no one will want to live here.

    by Mote Dai on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 08:54:47 AM PDT

    •  Let's say Tsarnaev wasn't captured ... (0+ / 0-)

      The GOP would prefer that he be able to walk into a gun show today, buy a gun and walk out without a background check.

      Makes it easier for a guy on the run, a guy prone to violence, a murderer, a terrorist, to obtain what he needs to kill more people.

      This isn't about before a crime is perpetrated, but about after.  And the GOP, even after a criminal commits a crime, wants that criminal to be able to purchase a gun at a gun show without any background check.

      Even Tsarnaev had he not been caught.

      •  Just a clarification (0+ / 0-)

        If he walked into a gun show to buy a gun, chances are he would go through a background check.  There seems to be some confusion about this practice.  All licensed dealers at gun shows are already required to do the NICS on gun purchases.   The "loophole" is the private transfer that may occur in the parking lot between two private parties.  

        In Massachusetts private transfers are tracked using the FA-10 form (it is filed within seven days after the transfer...but it is just a FYI form, no check).  BUT the buyer must had the firearm identification card which does have some background checks and a firearm course requirement.

        The sequester is the new Republican immigration reform plan. Make things so bad here in the US that no one will want to live here.

        by Mote Dai on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 09:39:49 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  What's your evidence for this? (0+ / 0-)
        And the GOP, even after a criminal commits a crime, wants that criminal to be able to purchase a gun at a gun show without any background check.
  •  This story also points out the fallacy of the GOP (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Miggles, greengemini

    phrase "law-abiding citizen". Citizens are law-abiding up until the point that they commit a crime. The idea that there are bad people and good people that can be differentiated by some kind of background check is just as nutty. The thousands of people killed in the US every year frequently die at the hands of law-abiding citizens who suddenly aren't.

    For if there is a sin against life, it consists perhaps not so much in despairing of life as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this life. - Albert Camus

    by Anne Elk on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 10:38:21 AM PDT

    •  Its called freedom (0+ / 0-)

      And it hinges on the principle that there are a lot of terrible things that could happen that are prevented by nothign more than people exercising good judgement.

      I could, at any time, take my car and deliberately run over the group of kids that I see waiting for the bus every morning. There's nothing preventing me from doing so other than the fact that I am not a monster.

      •  I get tired of pointing what BS this is. (0+ / 0-)

        Cars and a host of other things have many good and worthwhile uses. They can also be operated very safely. A gun is designed to kill. It is designed only to do that. The fact is that many people kill other people, but are not "monsters". They kill by negligence or by losing control. What might have been an argument or a moment of deep depression becomes a murder or suicide. The facts just do not support your views, but that's par for the course for gun nuts. Australia is hardly an example of a nation that is less free than the USA. In fact, in many ways, it is more free and more equal, while otherwise being very like the USA. The banning of most private gun ownership in Australia greatly reduced murders and suicides, totally eliminated mass murders, and - surprise - Australia still enjoys all of the civil liberties enjoyed by any American. Except Australians have one extra freedom, the freedom from being afraid that your stupid neighbor will decide to shoot you because your dog crapped on his lawn.

        For if there is a sin against life, it consists perhaps not so much in despairing of life as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this life. - Albert Camus

        by Anne Elk on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 05:14:17 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Black hat had Domestic violence arrest (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    greengemini

    Green cards holders can legally buy guns but I doubt black hat could have passed a background check and he knew it..will be interesting after ATF investigation.. Gun show or Internet?

  •  Since it's already legal (0+ / 0-)

    to buy machine guns etc at any gun show in america
    &
    Osama told his folllowers YEARS Ago
    to do so.....
    Why hasnt it (mumbia style assult) alrady happened???

    Who is mighty ? One who turns an enemy into a friend !

    by OMwordTHRUdaFOG on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 01:54:30 PM PDT

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site