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This diary voluntarily removed; if anyone would like me to resend to their email, let me know. Apparently, someone didn't like my take or spiel on Native American history and I'd rather not quibble about such things. Nevertheless, I think my research on the subject has been meticulous and culturally sensitive. Thanks for your understanding.

Originally posted to richholtzin on Sun Apr 28, 2013 at 07:47 AM PDT.

Also republished by DK GreenRoots, National Parks and Wildlife Refuges, and Community Spotlight.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Walking On The Skywalk (4+ / 0-)

    Not for all the money in the world.....

    What we need is a Democrat in the White House.

    by dkmich on Sun Apr 28, 2013 at 09:33:51 AM PDT

  •  I've been west, but I haven't been out west. (3+ / 0-)

    Vegas, Denver/Evergreen, Houston/Galveston, Long Beach/ Laguna Beach, and Seattle/Mt. Rainier.  I would like to drive it to get a sense of area and not just towns.   Seattle and Laguna Beach were the best, and Houston/Galveston were worse than Detroit.  Couldn't believe how dirty the beach was in Galveston.   Maybe when I finally retire, we can take off for a month.  Its a big country, lots to see.  

    What we need is a Democrat in the White House.

    by dkmich on Sun Apr 28, 2013 at 01:41:10 PM PDT

    •  Locally, many of us have loved Laguna Beach (3+ / 0-)

      since I was a kid. It's a great town, very artistically-oriented, with a colorful canyon winding back from Pacific Coast Hwy. through the interior hills. It's the unique town in Orange County.  I live in Long Beach, which regretfully because of a breakwater created many years ago has no surf. (Bummer!)

      Good diary, as usual!

      "They come, they come To build a wall between us We know they won't win."--Crowded House, "Don't Dream It's Over."

      by Wildthumb on Sun Apr 28, 2013 at 08:35:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  This diary reminded me of the book (3+ / 0-)

    Vanished Arizona by Martha Summerhayes This is the true story of the wife of an army officer who travels up the Colorado river to IIRC, Erhenburg and then travels east by wagon to the White Mts in eastern Arizona. In 1870s. Their journey takes them through this part of Arizona. I read it years ago, but I can remember one of her comments about Mormon Lake near Flagstaff. She wrote that no one will come through there again because it is so remote.

    The link above is to Amazon and the Kindle version is free. It is a quick and interesting read, but then I like this type of story....and it is free!!

    "Seneca Falls and Selma and Stonewall" - President Obama, January 20, 2013

    by savano66 on Sun Apr 28, 2013 at 03:15:59 PM PDT

    •  and thanks for this. . . (0+ / 0-)

      posting, savano66. I just read the article and it was all news to me. I mean, I am not, was not, familiar with Martha's writeup. At the time, though, "Buckskin Mountain," which was the favored name of the North Rim country by hunters and such, was indeed remote territory. But I had no idea Mormon Lake (which I used to bike to now and again when I lived in Flag) was considered as such. Shows to go ya how there's always something new to learn. Anyway, I love Arizona history and the Whites are not a place to venture if you lose your way. Had a run in or two with a maverick type resident who liked to take pot shots at folks just to give them the thrill of being, say, in the Old West times. Ha. Anyway, thanks for posting the comment and for the most interesting article. I am sure others in the community who dropped by the commentary section of this posting also agree.

      Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

      by richholtzin on Mon Apr 29, 2013 at 05:26:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Peach Springs (3+ / 0-)

    Well, I think this is one I will skip, since I have so many other places to go that are not so commercialized. I know what you are saying about the land belonging to the Hualapais and they can do what they want with it. However .... doesn't appeal to me. On that note, I still thank you for introducing this to us and as usual, giving a great detailed description of the whole package.

    •  I think I agree, though I'd like to walk around (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      helpImdrowning

      the walkway (if I had no better use for my $$$!)

      Can't blame the Hualapais, though. I just hope they make good use of the profits.

      •  I think they will... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        RiveroftheWest

        they are smart, intelligent and good business folks who have done a tremendous job promoting their tourism affairs. The HUalapai Lodge is one of the best places to stay in the region and the food, the last time I ran a tour out of there, was still excellent. And a very personable people, at that. Just ask for the heavy duty ear plugs if staying at the lodge and the room happens to be track side. Or run the a/c fan or something. Still, I am an extremely light sleeper and my needs must; others, however, seem not to notice the periodic whistle blowing.

        Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

        by richholtzin on Mon Apr 29, 2013 at 05:17:02 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The Columbia Gorge has RR tracks on both sides (0+ / 0-)

          of the river, and constant rail traffic that echoes off the bluffs on both sides. Visitors often notice it, the rest of us snooze on, undisturbed!

          However, some camping areas are practically on top of the tracks, and the noise can make a long night even for people who like the sound of trains.

    •  just so you know. . . (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RiveroftheWest, yella dawg

      wynative. . .I think the Hualapai tourism industry gives most folks an appreciative perspective all in all. And, of course, spending money given the Hualapai enterprises is good for the tribe, because it's now the mainstay of their economy. Thus jobs these folks need and rely on. So I say, if you have the money to spend, the time to spend in the lines (at times), or by whatever means your bucks go to the tribe, support these folks. Like the nearby Supai folks, the Hualapais are good folks to know. In all my years working with Yavapai College or NAU or my clients (ecosouthwest and Arizona Ed-Venture tours). . .no major complaints to speak of or hear. Hospitality also pays off, because Peach Springs makes folks feel welcomed. (This spiel is not a paid-for promo by the way. HA!)

      Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

      by richholtzin on Mon Apr 29, 2013 at 05:22:02 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The long line for the Skywalk and the high price (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RiveroftheWest

    for the pleasure won't be bothering me anytime soon; definitely not my cup of tea. It's not the height that bothers me, it's the worry that the thing could collapse. Although I had a similar aversion to riding the Chunnel Train between England and France which goes underneath the English Channel and I made that crazy (to me) trip. I was traveling on business with people I worked with and bowed to peer pressure. Anyway, thanks for another great diary Rich.

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." - John F. Kennedy -7.8., -6.6

    by helpImdrowning on Sun Apr 28, 2013 at 10:09:07 PM PDT

    •  the Chunnel... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RiveroftheWest

      darnit...I have yet to make that trip. Crossed on top, by ferry barge/boat, many times (lived in Paris for a couple of years), but just never got 'round to the Chunnel. As for the Skywalk, it's a big gamble for the Hualapai tribe leading to bigger and better things for those folks: a 4-star hotel/casino; gondola to the bottom; continued altered Hollywood movie locale; and a gigantic Ferris wheel, or similar), although that part of it may be bogus info someone passed along to me. In any event, I have worked with the Hualapai folks, in tourism, for many years, and they are damn fine people and worth supporting. (Great sense of humor, too. . .and that's always my kind of people.) As always, thanks for posting a comment and for your support helpImdrowning.

      Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

      by richholtzin on Mon Apr 29, 2013 at 05:14:19 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I walked the Skywalk (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RiveroftheWest

    It was great. I do not like heights, and there were moments of discomfort, but I stayed on the edge of the walkway, walking over the steel support, that helped a lot.

    I also drove down to the river on Diamond Creek. What a great trip. We rented a truck for the day but our car would have been fine. Just take it easy, especially in the last couple of miles.

    Do allow a day for each event, we stayed in Flagstaff to avoid the train whistles!

    Thanks for these diaries! We are planning a driving trip and you are giving us new places to stop!

    The Democrats create jobs. The Republicans create recessions.

    by Tuba Les on Mon Apr 29, 2013 at 12:20:19 AM PDT

    •  Oops, Kingman (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RiveroftheWest

      We stayed in Kingman.

      The Democrats create jobs. The Republicans create recessions.

      by Tuba Les on Mon Apr 29, 2013 at 12:22:32 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  train whistles and such... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RiveroftheWest, Tuba Les

      the Skywalk, though not for everyone, seems to be a big draw for most people. I was on it many years ago (as a tribal invite), so I didn't want to miss that opportunity. And it is quite the view all around. The Diamond Creek road is very safe for most vehicles and I have seen Mini Coopers do their thing without fail. The last two miles, sure, you got to pick your spots, but with patience negotiation (for an accident free ride) does wonders. And, yes, I was thinking you meant Kingman. Peach Springs, however, still hasn't convinced the railroad the village people, as it were, are going to do well by having a horn-free zone. There have been such rather ugly incidents over the years, on the tracks. Thanks for posting your informative comment, Tuba Les. And, as long as there is interest in these missives I'll keep posting 'em.

      Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

      by richholtzin on Mon Apr 29, 2013 at 05:10:16 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Building the skywalk (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RiveroftheWest

    In 2009, National Geographic TV had a one-hour documentary on how the Skywalk was built. It was quite interesting to see how the supports was engineered and built to allow the walk to be cantilevered out over the rim. Its definitely worth tracking down and watching. But at $75 a throw to walk on it, I'll pass.

    For more info...

    I don't get mad. I get stabby!" - Fat Tony D'Amico

    by sizzzzlerz on Mon Apr 29, 2013 at 08:33:27 AM PDT

    •  me, too... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RiveroftheWest

      I got my first and last Skywalk for free, years ago. It was worth the view and feel. And I saw that Nat'l Geo depiction. Cantilevered or not, it's still limestone and limestone is a malleable rock affection by its own calcium carbonate; those 'solution' cave materials that means sooner or later...just how long will the engineering hold up? I'm told thousands of years. That sounds like lawyer talk to me, don't you think? Thanks for posting your comment, sizzzzlerz.

      Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

      by richholtzin on Mon Apr 29, 2013 at 09:27:29 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Damn it! After reading all your diaries (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RiveroftheWest, FishOutofWater

    you've convinced me that my next big trip will not be to Italy, but to the Southwest.  I suppose Leonardo can wait.

    "I speak the truth, not as much as I would, but as much as I dare, and I dare a little the more, as I grow older." --Montaigne

    by DrLori on Mon Apr 29, 2013 at 10:20:28 AM PDT

    •  too, too funny. . . (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RiveroftheWest, smokey545, DrLori

      but Leonardo waits for no man! Or is it as the toll sounds, or some such? Anyway, here's a suggestion: Why not do both? Oh, you have to camp out on your travels, in the Southwest, and that way you could at least afford the airfare across the big pond. Of course, I'm a huge fan of Italy's offerings, like Florence, and I'd go there in a heartbeat again...and then again I've lived in the Four Corners region for well over 40 years, so maybe I just need a change of scenery. In any event, DrLori, let us know how you resolved this most interesting quandary of where to go on your next vacation. Meanwhile, I swear the diaries are not fabricated given the beauty and features of the Southwest. Promise.

      Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

      by richholtzin on Mon Apr 29, 2013 at 10:48:05 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Excellent. I noticed an unfortunate typo, however (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RiveroftheWest

    I think you meant to say stragglers.

    Known as the Battle of Cherum Peak the Hualapai began to surrender, although not all the warriors were in accord with a treaty. In time, all the warrior stranglers gave up their weapons, and by 1870 the Hualapai Wars were over. It is estimated that one-third of the Hualapai people were killed during this war either by the conflict or disease.

    look for my eSci diary series Thursday evening.

    by FishOutofWater on Mon Apr 29, 2013 at 02:35:08 PM PDT

    •  hmmm, or a Freudian slip... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RiveroftheWest

      do you think? I keep pleading for an editor for these diaries. I sure can't do the job working only from  screen (don't have nor can I afford  printer...). Anyway, for catching this one I'll pop for your Skywalk fee next time you're out that way! Meanwhile...I'm still contemplating the source material I wrote to you about and your response to same. Thanks very much. It'll help, I'm sure.

      Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

      by richholtzin on Mon Apr 29, 2013 at 02:43:46 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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