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"What does it mean when the tools of a racist patriarchy are used to examine the fruits of that same patriarchy? It means that only the most narrow perimeters of change are possible and allowable."  - Audre Lorde, 1984
when Audre Lorde spoke at NYU in 1984, she was challenging white feminists that without addressing their own racism and homophobia, they would change little.  that metaphor is powerful beyond compare.  

the master's tools.  

of all the tools used to maintain and institutionalize inequality, oppression, poverty, racism and genocide - language is the most pervasive and most culpable.

I wrote a post the other day that some people here really didn't like.  this post is not about that diary but about what I started thinking about afterward.  namely, just who makes up the Daily Kos community and does that support what Daily Kos out to do?

regarding who makes up the Daily Kos community, my assumption has been that this site is made up of people from various demographics within the Democratic Party.  I think I read someplace years ago that the purpose of this site is to elect better (progressive) Democrats.  I am not sure if that's the guiding principle still, but it attracted me and keeps me here.  

so, here is what I found when I looked at the dailykos quantcast website stats:

so, the average reader of this site is a white male, with money, no kids and at least one college degree living primarily in New York or any of another dozen cities.
I looked at the demographics of the Democratic Party for comparison:
Not only does the readership demographics of dailykos not match up with the Democratic Party, in some ways it looks a lot more like the GOP.  in the 2012 election cycle, the Democratic party struggled to get the votes of white males.  the demographics of this site are the opposite of that.
this is not a new observation, as seen in a 2011 diary, Daily Kos Demographics: Still White. Over 50. Well Off. Male.

So, why is this site so 'white, english speaking, college educated, well to do, male' when it is serving as venue for speaking in support of a political party with vastly different race / gender / class proportions?  

one thing I assert is that the common language spoken here (white male-ese) communicates to people:
    ▪    how they should speak to be welcome here / to be heard here
    ▪    the active class dynamic
    ▪    the expectations of how people outside the preferred group will / can be treated, based on the language they use
    ▪    and something is communicated by not even mentioning overtly this very dynamic - namely that there is no means or invitation to even address this.  it's non-negotiable.
    ▪    these messages have been given for centuries by universities, newspapers, magazines and publishers: speak white male-ese or you will not be heard.
it's no wonder why the site is so rich, educated, white & male.  

white male-ese (as I define it: roots in journalism, formed in colonial / military society, white male power holders / gatekeepers)…didn't form in a vacuum.  nobody walked up and found a grove with the language conventions of journalism, university and other elite institutions just "lying around".  this language is not a molecular compound, forming in the birth and death of stars.  language is comprised of metaphors: sounds and images and words we exchange between one another in order to convey messages.  the conventions of thesis & argument are not physical objects - they are agreed upon ways of speaking and listening.  

when other forms of communication are dismissed because they differ, access is restricted by the class holding power differential advantage.  people in differing race / class / gender / age / culture / brain function have widely ranging thought patterns and forms of expression.  making an assertion, supporting it with 3 facts including links and summarizing the point in closing - that's all well and good - but it exists in agreement only.  it's not solid like rocks on a beach and it's not the only way of communicating.  metaphor, prose, lyric, painting the opposite, dramatizing, reducing to three word sentences…there are so many ways to communicate, provoke, invite, orate and spur discussion.  

white male-ese can be spoken in several european languages, English, Spanish, French, Dutch, German - the language of the colonizers - of the takers of wealth.  During the reign of the British Empire and its subsequent replacement by the American Empire, English spoken, white male-ese has been the language of global wealth holders for 300 years.  during this time, the global elites formed empires, laws, newspapers, magazines, universities, charities while headed by mostly white men, speaking white male-ese.  conventions in education, journalism, prose and critical thinking published during the last three centuries were selected by elite gatekeepers.  professors, editors, politicians, CEO's and so on, all choosing what receives a passing grade, a publisher's contract, the marks of an editor, placement on the front page.  even the words in an english dictionary are selected by elites.  they say that history is written by the victor.  white men have been winning and writing history - and choosing what is and is not acceptable language for print - for a very long time.  history books choose what to tell and what to ignore.

the unacknowledged insistence on speaking white male-ese, I posit - is at the very least a significant factor in the dwindling participation at this site by Democratic voters in proportions similar to the make up of the party itself,  if not THE factor.
language is not a neutral element.  language is controlled by those can afford to speak it.  anyone can open their mouth on a street corner or in a room.  but very few can control the selection of words in a dictionary, words chosen as passing grades, words in radio, television, newspaper, magazine, online information and reference, words to make the law of the land or to uphold the law of the land.  to choose those words is very expensive and the people holding those reins have just as much a desire to see their influence and wealth grow, as the person on a corner with $10 to their name.

the difference is, the control of what a nation hears vs. what a passer by on a corner hears.  the select few who pay to control what the masses hear and speak, know the power of language and why they gladly pay every penny for it.   this is because language requires someone to be listening.  for people in positions of power, if they can also ignore or limit the voices of the same people they are broadcasting to, then this is another advantageous tool.

for those of us, in the business of challenging such inequality, we would do well to deal with it every day in ways that we do not currently do.

the point is that with every sentence we construct in our efforts to challenge racism, sexism, wealth hoarding and a world dominated by and benefiting white men over all others - we are are reasserting and inserting more of the same.  the impacts of inequality, racism and sexism that are 'baked into' white male-ese can be seen in the racial slurs against our own Democratic President, as discussed in these recent diaries: The racism (and uprating) that haunts Daily Kos and Statement of Opposition to Racist Labels Used by Kossacks to Criticize President Obama.  our language, our words, our rules for how we organize our conversations and the words we use - were all selected in a system of institutionalized racism and sexism and they are the master's tools.

for me, I don't want to have to choose between the white men with money talking GOP speak or the white men with money talking Democratic speak.  I spend less time here now than I used to, and after this recent disconnect, I begin to see why.  dailykos may be happier than a pig in shit being just exactly this way and see no need to alter a thing except for my account status.  I hope that's not the case but, it's not my site and I make no claim to this being my site.  

so, what do I want from anyone for having read this post?  I'd like this site to say if this is just the place for rich white men who vote Democratic or if this is a site by, for and of the Democratic Party.  if it's the latter, then I really invite you to own the unspoken and constant role that the language spoken here plays in determining who participates here - and then start doing things about it.

I'm fairly certain that I will get a shit-ton of 'manpain', denial, accusations and probably kicked off the site.  I will probably not turn this into a debate.  I am not defending my experience, observations or the demographics of this site and the Democratic Party.  

I ask you all to look to see why this site is so chock full of white men with money and then do something about it: own it or change it.

I'll leave you all with these words from someone not served by this site, a voice and a language construction that is not prevalent here, from experiences and bodies that are the exception here and not the norm.  people not served by this site are going on without you and without adding their voice to this place.  you might say "OK, fine", but if those people are the rank and file of the Democratic Party, then how will you make something other than the most narrow perimeters of change possible and allowable?  and can you do that while talking predominantly to a bunch of white guys with money?

immigrants, poor people, queer people of color, disabled folks, women (esp trans women of color) and gender-nonconforming folks if you are in academia and you don’t feel smart enough, remember that you are in the playground and training grounds of the elite. academia was not designed to include you. you are surviving something that has been systemically designed to exclude you in order to keep power in the hands of white, middle class, able bodied cis-men.

knowing this, don’t let academia train you to believe that elitism is the right way to make it through school. you can learn shit, hold the knowledge of your people in your heart, discard shame for your humble beginnings and/or marginalized identities. move through this experience knowing that the changes it offers you don’t have to include accepting academic elitism, inaccessible language or superiority. you can can simultaneously own the privilege that comes with being college educated and connections to your roots. academia does not have to kill your spirit.  
- fabian romero- indigenous immigrant queer boi writer, facilitator and community organizer

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Comment Preferences

  •  I was not aware that "white men" is (0+ / 0-)

    now a suitable tag on Dkos.

  •  good gawd! (6+ / 0-)

    spoken in my most excellent affluent male-ese voice

    " My faith in the Constitution is whole; it is complete; it is total." Barbara Jordan, 1974

    by gchaucer2 on Thu May 02, 2013 at 07:30:24 AM PDT

  •  Wow! You guys are young! (5+ / 0-)

    Now I'm feeling really, really old.

  •  In my own little run down of stats I've found that (10+ / 0-)

    the majority of Dkos diarist's use capital letters to begin sentences. And the average length of diaries is WAY shorter than this.

    I think my stats are spot on and I stand behind them because, well they just came out of my butt.

    I'm not sure about yours though. Are you telling me that there are only 137 African Americans on this site? I find that hard to believe.

    Tracy B Ann - technically that is my signature.

    by ZenTrainer on Thu May 02, 2013 at 07:42:01 AM PDT

  •  From the Book of Others (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    commonmass, corvo, Batya the Toon

    CHAPTER 8
    1 And all the poor bastards who never had a chance will probably never get one either,
    2 Because now the ones who didn't get imprisoned or enslaved or killed are stuck with what the Chosen Nations gave them,
    3 Including the desire for material possessions,
    4 And the lust for power,
    5 And fanatical beliefs about politics and religion,
    6 And corruption,
    7 And disease,
    8 And famine,
    9 And pollution,
    10 And bastard cultures full of poverty, despair, and violence,
    11 Not to mention missionaries,
    12 And debts,
    13 And dictators,
    14 And wars,
    15 And a lot of patronizing lectures about what it takes to be civilized,
    16 From the people who know the most about civilization,
    17 Namely, all the Chosen Nations who ruined their lives in the first place.
    18 Poor poor bastards.
    CHAPTER 9
    1 But history keeps on going,
    2 No matter who gets hurt,
    3 And that's the way it will keep on going,
    4 Until the world ends,
    5 Because some Chosen Nation goes utterly insane,
    6 Which has happened before,
    7 Or because some other Chosen Nation chooses pride over compromise,
    8 Which has happened before,
    9 Or because some other Chosen Nation just can't stop wanting what it hasn't got,
    10 No matter what,
    11 Which has happened before,
    12 And will happen again,
    13 Like everything else in history.
    14 And the only thing certain about any of it is,
    15 No matter how it starts or where,
    16 The next time everyone will pay for it equally,
    17 And there won't be any more Chosen Nations,
    18 Or any Others.
    19 Poor bastards all.

    "The next time everyone will pay for it equally, and there won't be any more Chosen Nations, or any Others. Poor bastards all." ~The Boomer Bible

    by just another vet on Thu May 02, 2013 at 07:42:13 AM PDT

  •  I would comment on this diary, but as a (11+ / 0-)

    white, 44 year old male who went to college I feel like I would be contributing to the oppression of others. Because, you know, I can only speak oppression. Some academic theorist told me that once.

    /snark

    What is truth? -- Pontius Pilate

    by commonmass on Thu May 02, 2013 at 08:00:12 AM PDT

  •  I'm curious ... (4+ / 0-)

    Was this diary written in "white male-ese?"  If not, what distinguishes it from that?

    How about President Obama?  Does he speak white male-ese? Is he failing the Democratic membership by speaking the way he does?

    “What’s the use of having developed a science well enough to make predictions if, in the end, all we’re willing to do is stand around and wait for them to come true?” - Sherwood Rowland

    by jrooth on Thu May 02, 2013 at 08:02:14 AM PDT

    •  Worse, Audre Lorde (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      commonmass, allergywoman, jrooth

      was speaking in white male-ese.  How could she not have done so?

      Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

      by corvo on Thu May 02, 2013 at 08:19:03 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  All snark aside, the diarist presents (11+ / 0-)

    a cogent argument here. The demographic studies are interesting (I think the DK data is a bit out of date though I doubt it's much different). I think "own it or change it" is a legitimate thing to suggest. I just don't think the majority of us rich, white males are hear to oppress anyone.

    What is truth? -- Pontius Pilate

    by commonmass on Thu May 02, 2013 at 08:04:22 AM PDT

    •  The "cogent argument" (6+ / 0-)

      is one gigantic ad hominem.  Is the issue "what is being talked about," or is it "who is talking"?

      Myself, I'd like to stick with Horkheimer and Adorno's argument that the only way to employ reason morally is to scrutinize reason with reason (failure to do so leading inevitably to the Marquis de Sade and Auschwitz), but maybe I shouldn't.  They were Jews, yes, but perhaps overwhelmed by the taint of being privileged white males.

      Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

      by corvo on Thu May 02, 2013 at 08:12:30 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yup (6+ / 0-)

        There is a valid point to be made here, but the thesis is not handled in the most impartial fashion.

        Disclaimer: If the above comment can possibly be construed as snark, it probably is.

        by grubber on Thu May 02, 2013 at 08:20:36 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Any chance (6+ / 0-)

          the diarist will actually comment?

          "The next time everyone will pay for it equally, and there won't be any more Chosen Nations, or any Others. Poor bastards all." ~The Boomer Bible

          by just another vet on Thu May 02, 2013 at 08:25:57 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I'm still wondering what the point is. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          just another vet, commonmass

          Is the point "The oppressed have no language" or is it "There are too many white males on Daily Kos" or is it "There aren't enough minorities on Daily Kos" or what?

          Myself, I'd love to have more minority voices.  But I'd want them to be more like Kevin Gray than blackwaterdog, and I think most Kossacks would be really upset with (a) that choice and (b) the fact that some self-confessed white guy made it.

          Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

          by corvo on Thu May 02, 2013 at 08:30:18 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  It's the same point my college lit professor (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            just another vet, jrooth

            was making, tirelessly and tireSOMEly making, I'll add, and that is that the language of white, male, Europeans is inherently oppressive. Suggestions of what to replace it with are myriad.

            I would like to add that while making the assertion that the language of white, male, Europeans is inherently oppressive, my professor also made the point that text is inherently meaningless. To think that some people get tenure. (This is especially funny because the whole deconstructionist thing is based on the theories of white, European males.)

            What is truth? -- Pontius Pilate

            by commonmass on Thu May 02, 2013 at 08:45:13 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Which is precisely why (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              commonmass, just another vet

              I find the Horkheimer/Adorno argument so compelling.  We can't replace the language with something else; that "something else" will preserve the traces of that which we tried to replace.  (Yes, that was a Derridean moment -- he made more sense on this issue than anyone else.)  

              To say that a text constructed out of inherently oppressive language is "meaningless" is, well, intellectually lazy.  It's an extreme combination of New Criticism-style contempt for intentionality combined with an extremist-hermeneutic attitude that meaning comes into being only once there's a reader for a given text.

              Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

              by corvo on Thu May 02, 2013 at 08:52:05 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Exactly, which is why this particular prof (2+ / 0-)

                was so eternally vomitous and sick-making. Her continuous ad hominem attack on half the class was positively vicious, and many of us (including the ladies) were convinced that she purposely gave lower grades to men. She was also the chair of the department.

                What is truth? -- Pontius Pilate

                by commonmass on Thu May 02, 2013 at 08:55:37 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  You would (maybe not) be amazed (4+ / 0-)

                  at the blatant sexism and oppression by some women in the corporate world who've gotten "theirs" and are determined to pull up the ladder behind them.

                  Long ago, I worked for a small company that was bought by a much larger firm with a female CEO at the helm. Some of my female colleagues thought this was just awesome. I told them to be careful what they wished for.

                  This [insert unacceptable female slur here] had the audacity to tell senior level women that they'd "better not even think about having kids" if they expected to get ahead in the company. She also spent plenty of time getting articles in professional journals trumpeting her own success, including the history of crushing her male mentors and driving them out of the company on her climb up to CEO.

                  When one male VP was found to have made a bad decision, she busted down ALL VPs and senior people (something that hit many more male than female employees). It was a shocking display of "I'm doing this just because I can, fools!".

                  Those who do not understand history are condemned to repeat it... in summer school.

                  by cassandracarolina on Thu May 02, 2013 at 09:01:46 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

      •  No, it isn't an ad hominem (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sexgenderbody

        It's a recognition that the demographics of the site give rise to a certain way of speaking that's exclusive and that reinforces the current site demographic make up. It is an important issue and it harms the site. I see people who don't conform to the language standards run off this site all the time. And not for things like sexism, but for saying shit the wrong way.

        If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

        by AoT on Thu May 02, 2013 at 09:50:42 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Examples please. n/t (0+ / 0-)

          Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

          by corvo on Thu May 02, 2013 at 09:55:19 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Heh. (0+ / 0-)

            I think it was a rhetorical rant.

          •  Adept4U is the first one I can think of. (0+ / 0-)

            And no, I'm not talking about blackwaterdog.

            There was at least one other young black person as well.

            If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

            by AoT on Thu May 02, 2013 at 10:35:38 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  same exact kind of case. (0+ / 0-)

              Lots of scattershot accusations of racism.

              Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

              by corvo on Thu May 02, 2013 at 11:24:59 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I can't remember the names (0+ / 0-)

                because they last such a short time. Honestly, looking at the response to this diary I think shows fairly well what the problem is. The diary points out how the use of language can be oppressive and that it is responsible to some extent for the fact that the demographics here are wildly different than the demographics of the party. Then people show up and don't address what was said and instead turn it into some kind of attack on white men as purposely attacking everyone who isn't a white man. Irony abounds.

                If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

                by AoT on Thu May 02, 2013 at 11:29:29 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  it's words (0+ / 0-)

                  I'd hate to see what would happen if people had to actually defend themselves from something other than words.

                  I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

                  by jbou on Thu May 02, 2013 at 11:31:22 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Given that we live in the US and we're talking (0+ / 0-)

                    about women and people of color I can tell you that they do need to defend themselves against more than just words. Probably more than you'd expect. That's the issue. If they were "just words" then it would hardly be a big deal. The issue being brought up is that how we use words matters. You of all people should know the power of words.

                    If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

                    by AoT on Thu May 02, 2013 at 11:36:09 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I grew up with the... (3+ / 0-)

                      queen of verbal and physical abuse as a mother. I guess my callused skin doesn't let the words penetrate.

                      Perspective and all that.

                      I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

                      by jbou on Thu May 02, 2013 at 11:47:10 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I am even more (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        corvo

                        confused than before. What the fuck is this whole argument about again?

                        "The next time everyone will pay for it equally, and there won't be any more Chosen Nations, or any Others. Poor bastards all." ~The Boomer Bible

                        by just another vet on Thu May 02, 2013 at 01:06:46 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  It's about this: (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          just another vet
                          I wrote a post the other day that some people here really didn't like.
                          Translation: "I got donutted big time a couple of days ago and I need a quick mojo fix.  I'm down to three bars ferchrissakes."

                          It certainly isn't dialog; the diarist hasn't condescended to make any follow-up comments.

                          Happens all the time around here.

                          Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

                          by corvo on Thu May 02, 2013 at 01:38:53 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

          •  Oops, adept2U (0+ / 0-)

            And there are others who no longer participate as well.

            And no, I don't mean blackwaterdog.

            If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

            by AoT on Thu May 02, 2013 at 10:40:59 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  people leave because... (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              just another vet, corvo

              they can't handle disagreement. Because they can't fathom why some person on the intertubes doesn't agree with their precious well thought out opinion.

              and don't get me started about BWD I just got back from a mandatory break.

              I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

              by jbou on Thu May 02, 2013 at 11:34:54 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  How "run off the site?" (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          corvo

          People are being HR'd to the point of auto-ban for not conforming to language standards?  I haven't seen that.

          Sure there's a lot of incivility at times, but I don't think it's confined to people who fail the "white male-ese" standard of writing.  And so what?  If it's out of hand, complain to the management.  Otherwise, stand your ground and argue your point.  I don't see what's so oppressive about that.

          I'm not sure what we educated middle-aged white childless men are supposed to do differently.  Why should we be expected to alter our writing style to accommodate others any more than they should alter their style to accommodate us?

          “What’s the use of having developed a science well enough to make predictions if, in the end, all we’re willing to do is stand around and wait for them to come true?” - Sherwood Rowland

          by jrooth on Thu May 02, 2013 at 10:02:25 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Sometimes through HRs (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            sexgenderbody

            Sometimes just through a constant harassment due to language usage. Especially when women or people of color call out people who are using discriminatory language. Sure, they aren't physically forced out, but given the incredible whiteness, age, and relative wealth of this place there is clearly something that's a problem. This diary points out at least part of the problem.

            If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

            by AoT on Thu May 02, 2013 at 10:43:31 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  there are serious problems... (0+ / 0-)

              in our country. Use of antiquated racial slurs on the internet ain't one of them.

              I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

              by jbou on Thu May 02, 2013 at 11:39:33 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  So you think our use of langguage (0+ / 0-)

                has nothing to do with the dearth of women and people of color at the site? What's the cause then?

                If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

                by AoT on Thu May 02, 2013 at 11:42:22 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  men like to argue... (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  cassandracarolina, commonmass

                  and white men really like to argue. We have an annoying desire to be right about everything and will go to great lengths to prove it. Women will walk away much quicker from an argument. Can't speak to the black folks.

                  I say be who we are and let the chips fall where they may and also be genuine. People will respect it. When you start changing to try and please people you get all sorts of muddled and messed up.

                  I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

                  by jbou on Thu May 02, 2013 at 11:57:45 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  We must know different women. (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    just another vet

                    Most of the ones I know can more than hold their own.

                    Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

                    by corvo on Thu May 02, 2013 at 08:04:47 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

            •  I'm still trying to understand (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              just another vet, corvo

              what I'm supposed to do differently.  If the way I write is oppressive then exactly how am I supposed to change?

              “What’s the use of having developed a science well enough to make predictions if, in the end, all we’re willing to do is stand around and wait for them to come true?” - Sherwood Rowland

              by jrooth on Thu May 02, 2013 at 11:48:18 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  They can't tell you that (0+ / 0-)

                because to do so they would have to use language, which is irredeemably masculinist.

                Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

                by corvo on Thu May 02, 2013 at 08:04:10 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

        •  Run off the site how? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          corvo

          Are people being HR'ed into oblivion for failing to conform to the language standards?  I haven't seen it.

          Sure there's incivility, but I don't think that's confined to people who don't write in "white male-ese."  And so what?  If it's out of hand, complain to the management - otherwise stand your ground and argue your point.  I don't see what's so oppressive about that.

          I'm not sure what we educated middle-aged childless white men are supposed to do differently.  Why should we be expected to alter our writing style to accommodate others any more than they should be expected to do the same?  

          “What’s the use of having developed a science well enough to make predictions if, in the end, all we’re willing to do is stand around and wait for them to come true?” - Sherwood Rowland

          by jrooth on Thu May 02, 2013 at 10:08:18 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Damn - sorry about the double post. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            corvo, AoT

            I swear I refreshed several times and my first try wasn't there.

            “What’s the use of having developed a science well enough to make predictions if, in the end, all we’re willing to do is stand around and wait for them to come true?” - Sherwood Rowland

            by jrooth on Thu May 02, 2013 at 10:10:07 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  We failed to nurture an environment (0+ / 0-)

            in which users like blackwaterdog could decry presumed white males as "racists" whenever she wanted to, and for whatever reason (including none at all).

            Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

            by corvo on Thu May 02, 2013 at 10:20:39 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Come on, do you really think I'm going to (0+ / 0-)

              defend BWD? Yes, there are people who pull the "you criticized Obama, you're racist card" and they are rightfully told to piss off. This is a different matter altogether.

              If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

              by AoT on Thu May 02, 2013 at 11:07:01 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Okay, then, (0+ / 0-)

                we failed to nurture an environment in which users like Adept2U (or whatever his/her nick was) could decry presumed white males as "racists" whenever she wanted to, and for whatever reason (including none at all).

                Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

                by corvo on Thu May 02, 2013 at 11:25:57 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  We've built an environment where (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  sexgenderbody

                  people of color and women aren't comfortable. As clearly illustrated by the lack of people of color and women. Sure, there are some, but they are a much smaller percentage than either the internet in general and even more so the party. That's not an accident.

                  If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

                  by AoT on Thu May 02, 2013 at 11:33:57 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  so what can we change? (0+ / 0-)

                    I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

                    by jbou on Thu May 02, 2013 at 11:49:28 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I would hope so (0+ / 0-)

                      I mean, it's certainly possible to not have this be true. I don't know that we will change, but we sure can. There are people working on it, obviously this was not a real attempt at that, but there are people like Black Kos who are trying to make this a space where more people feel welcome.

                      If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

                      by AoT on Thu May 02, 2013 at 11:57:04 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Three thoughts: (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        just another vet

                        1. You didn't answer jbou's question.
                        2. Why hasn't this diary been added to Black Kos?
                        3. As someone to the left of Richard Nixon, I don't feel comfortable here either, but I'm not going to let that intimidate me.

                        Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

                        by corvo on Thu May 02, 2013 at 01:31:06 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

            •  BWD is white. n/t (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              corvo

              When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill...

              by PhilJD on Thu May 02, 2013 at 05:11:42 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Aha, so the reason that only 27% of (0+ / 0-)

          the community is female, and 12% is non-white (if you believe those statistics) is because the white males are running the others off?

          •  "because the white males are running the (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            sexgenderbody

            others off?"

            Yes and no. Not in the sense that I think you mean it. There aren't groups of white males intentionally running women and people of color off the site. The mechanism is more subtle than that. White male-ese, to use the language of this diary, is oppressive in a great many cases. It's also very obvious when a bunch of white dudes are responding to a person of color who is pissed about something someone else said.

            Shit, this comment section is a great example. Why the hell would the diarist stick around after seeing all these people make fun of them for expressing an unpopular opinion that is specifically critiquing white masculine language? If there had been any chance that the comments were going to be a useful dialog and not a pile on then maybe the diarist would have had reason to stick around. But I never see that happen here. Or at least it's rare enough that I don't see it.

            If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

            by AoT on Thu May 02, 2013 at 11:13:27 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  umm, what language are you using (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              jrooth

              that isn't "white masculine"?

              Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

              by corvo on Thu May 02, 2013 at 11:28:08 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I do use white masculine language (0+ / 0-)

                on a more regular basis than I should. I never pretended to be innocent. But one way I'm not doing that is by talking about these things and not just assuming that everything is fine.

                Also regarding your sig. I just adopted a stray. She's the best dog of all time.

                If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

                by AoT on Thu May 02, 2013 at 11:40:06 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  The King would argue with you on that one. n/t (0+ / 0-)

                  Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

                  by corvo on Thu May 02, 2013 at 01:28:44 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

            •  This is a political discussion forum. (4+ / 0-)

              I expect diarists to stick around and discuss.

              And frankly, I think it's a heck of a lot more interesting to discuss things with people who disagree with me - provided it's a genuine discussion and not just throwing talking points back and forth.

              “What’s the use of having developed a science well enough to make predictions if, in the end, all we’re willing to do is stand around and wait for them to come true?” - Sherwood Rowland

              by jrooth on Thu May 02, 2013 at 11:53:53 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  The diarist is clearly an unhappy (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                just another vet

                person who likes to complain and take a crap all over a community but then walk away, leaving everyone else alone with her shit.

                •  His shit. Diarist is a man in RL. n/t (0+ / 0-)

                  Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

                  by corvo on Thu May 02, 2013 at 08:05:40 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

    •  So what do we do about it? (4+ / 0-)

      "The next time everyone will pay for it equally, and there won't be any more Chosen Nations, or any Others. Poor bastards all." ~The Boomer Bible

      by just another vet on Thu May 02, 2013 at 08:18:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  You're assuming (5+ / 0-)

      that guesswork like Quantcast has any validity too though.  


      "Justice is a commodity"

      by joanneleon on Thu May 02, 2013 at 08:41:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Picking and choosing one's data (3+ / 0-)

        is sooooooo postmodern.

        Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

        by corvo on Thu May 02, 2013 at 08:42:15 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Every time there's been a survey of the site (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sexgenderbody

        it has shown that the membership here skews to the demographic that Quantcast shows. Even the official surveys done by DailyKos. The demographics here are a problem.

        If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

        by AoT on Thu May 02, 2013 at 11:14:52 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Your second statement (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          corvo

          assuming the first is true, is not something I need to be scolded about and would agree with you on that.  You should know that.

          My comment only ever questioned the first part of your statement.  Self selected polls are statistically invalid.  They are no more trustworthy than Quantcast that guesses your demographic based on an IP address.

          Another thing that makes me question that Quantcast data is that the age grouping and percentages has not changed, if I am remembering correctly, for probably 6 years?  So unless the community constantly refreshes and no significant number of people stay for years (we know this isn't true), that data is likely to be pretty stale.

          Another problem is, what version of "community" are you talking about?  The total number of readers and writers, registered or unregistered? I think that is what Quantcast is measuring.  The writers and commenters?  The demographic numbers there might be very different. They might be more significant, or maybe not, it depends on how you look at it.  Are you more concerned that the demographics of the people reading here are so narrow or are you more concerned about the demographics of the people who register, write and comment here?

          Anonymous users are allowed to vote in polls so it does not surprise me that the Quantcast numbers are in line with the demographic polling.  When is the last time a sitewide survey was done on the front page?  If it was recent, I never saw it and never participated in it, and I don't fit into the dominant demographic.  Site traffic, if you look at the meters, varies quite a bit during election time and not, so there's that and it makes it clear that the community traffic and maybe its demographics change a bit depending on whether it's election season or not.

          Anyway, that's a really long way of saying that I don't have much faith in those numbers and I have a lot of good reasons for that lack of trust. I'm also saying that participation at this site is a bit more complicated than just analyzing traffic numbers without considering how the anonymous site hits actually participate here.  IMHO, it's more important to have better diversity in demographics among the people writing and commenting, rather than just reading.  And we don't have good numbers, or any numbers, as far as I know, on that. Well we have some raw numbers from Jotter diaries, which indicate that (from his latest weekly stats)

          This week 635 Kogs published 1292 posts of which 1254 were recommended at least once by a cadre of 4302 recommending readers and viewed by 0; 806 posts were recommended by 10 or more readers, 420 by 30 or more, and 113 by 100 or more. Commenters (4644) visited 1292 posts; 698 had 10 or more commenters, 272 had 30 or more, and 29 had 100 or more.
          http://www.dailykos.com/...
          You can go and see the tabular version too.  You'll note that he no longer has access to the "view" numbers from registered users because that feature stopped working some months ago and has not been restored yet, but if you look at Jotter diaries from back when he could get those viewer numbers, the numbers were significantly higher, but not as large as a magnitude.  I don't have time to dig those up but you might want to, if you've never looked at the numbers because they are very interesting, given that the total number of registered users is now over 700K and the number of users who actually log in and participate is a tiny fraction of that.  Most of the registered users are junk, spambot users or something.

          Lastly, Quantcast numbers are used by marketing firms, right?  Judging by the quality of targeted ads for me, they are bad at that, or their data is not very good, or some combination of the two.


          "Justice is a commodity"

          by joanneleon on Thu May 02, 2013 at 01:51:35 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Well, if you look at the number of women (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            sexgenderbody

            on the site I think it's pretty apparent, ditto with the percentage of people of color. Certainly there are prominent women and people of color, which is great and part of what needs to happen.

            IMHO, it's more important to have better diversity in demographics among the people writing and commenting, rather than just reading.
            I agree, and that's generally what I mean when I talk about the community, those of us who actually participate. I mean take a look at who is on the rec list right now and then compare that to the demographics of the party. It's definitely more white and male. There's a reason for that and it's not just coincidence.

            If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

            by AoT on Thu May 02, 2013 at 02:19:21 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  Please check your graphic on household income. (7+ / 0-)

    It shows DK income greatest (42) percentage in the range $0-50k, but rates Kossacks "Affluent".

    Socialist? I do not think that word means what you think it means.

    by Kimbeaux on Thu May 02, 2013 at 08:08:44 AM PDT

  •  As a white female over 50 (11+ / 0-)

    I would have preferred that the diarist present the data and allow me to reach my own conclusions.

    I've operated successfully throughout my life and career in "white-male-dominated" venues and am uncomfortable with the idea that everyone I've been hanging out with is an overt (or secret) oppressor. Oppressors take many forms, as do the victims of oppression. Stereotyping groups of people based on gender, ethnicity, or socioeconomic status is not advancing our cause.

    If we want to elect more and better Democrats, we'll need everyone we can get on board, and if they can bring money, I don't see that as a problem. We need not sync up with party demographics so long as we embody Progressive ideals and stick with the mission.

    Those who do not understand history are condemned to repeat it... in summer school.

    by cassandracarolina on Thu May 02, 2013 at 08:12:04 AM PDT

  •  This parade is going nowhere. (5+ / 0-)

    "The next time everyone will pay for it equally, and there won't be any more Chosen Nations, or any Others. Poor bastards all." ~The Boomer Bible

    by just another vet on Thu May 02, 2013 at 08:44:45 AM PDT

  •  rec'd for the nostalgia (4+ / 0-)

    it brings me back to the nineties . . . fem theory class and all that

    I think the questions raised here by commenters about the overall point of this diary are important, and I wish the diarist would engage/respond

  •  Well, should I leave to change it? (8+ / 0-)

    WM, 48, middle class, college, married, 1 kid.

    I guess I'm the problem?

    Yes, I would be glad of more diverse voices here, but I'm not sure how it is that I'm the cause of that lack of diversity.

    I suppose the following falls into the "i'm not racist, some of my best friends are black" and "i'm not sexist, i sleep next to a woman every night" category, but:

    back in college, I did work on Jesse Jackson's campaign for president in 1984. Went to DC rallies against US involvement in Nicaragua, El Salvador. Helped start a campus dialogue group to bring people together to combat ignorance, create a safe, open environment for men and women to talk about campus issues.  

    The power of all races and both sexes coming together in common cause to better this nation was uplifting, and I hope I have lived to further this since.

    If African-Americans, Hispanics, etc. or women do not feel comfortable on this site, I would be glad to hear more of it.  I suppose some of my snark is off-putting, but sometimes snark is the only reaction I have left to me short of my head exploding from the idiocy on the right.

    Peace

    Liberalism is trust of the people tempered by prudence. Conservatism is distrust of the people tempered by fear. ~William E. Gladstone, 1866

    by absdoggy on Thu May 02, 2013 at 08:57:11 AM PDT

    •  I think we're allowed to stay (0+ / 0-)

      as long as we never question the utter wisdom and goodness of the President of the United States.

      At least you weren't attacked for being patronizing during your Jesse Jackson campaign days.

      Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

      by corvo on Thu May 02, 2013 at 09:12:03 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It seems that there are three big problems here. (4+ / 0-)

      One is Dixie-bashing, another is religion-bashing, and the third is condescension toward people of lower educational levels.  Obviously many of these overlap with each other and with the things that you stated.  Yet there are many other people here who do not do these things.

      "One of the greatest tragedies of man's long trek along the highway of history has been the limiting of neighborly concern to tribe, race, class or nation." Martin Luther King, Jr.

      by brae70 on Thu May 02, 2013 at 09:19:17 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  As a card-carrying member of the Homintern (4+ / 0-)

        I regard some religions as eminently more bashable than others.

        YMMV.

        Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

        by corvo on Thu May 02, 2013 at 09:34:10 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  That could well be true, but my point (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          cassandracarolina

          is that some of these people are our allies, or potential allies, and whereas legitimate criticism is fine, some commenters go over the top and aleinate them.

          "One of the greatest tragedies of man's long trek along the highway of history has been the limiting of neighborly concern to tribe, race, class or nation." Martin Luther King, Jr.

          by brae70 on Thu May 02, 2013 at 09:44:52 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  And some of them do a fine job (0+ / 0-)

            of alientating me.  What's your point? that I should STFU?

            It "could well be true."  How kind of you to say that.

            Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

            by corvo on Thu May 02, 2013 at 09:50:16 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  The point is that we're on a site dedicated (0+ / 0-)

              to electing more and better Democrats. By "alienating" I meant driving people into the hands of our opponents.  

              I don't think you should STFU.  I know what that one means but please explain Homintern and YMMV.

              "One of the greatest tragedies of man's long trek along the highway of history has been the limiting of neighborly concern to tribe, race, class or nation." Martin Luther King, Jr.

              by brae70 on Thu May 02, 2013 at 10:02:04 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Homintern = (4+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                brae70, commonmass, jrooth, AoT

                "Homosexual International."  A term coined by (I believe) Gore Vidal to lampoon right wing claims of an international homosexual conspiracy.  Based on "Comintern," of course.

                YMMV = "your mileage may vary."

                Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

                by corvo on Thu May 02, 2013 at 10:11:55 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Thank you for explaining that (no snark here). (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  commonmass

                  Now perhaps we should move on as I wonder if we are playing right into the diarists hands.

                  "One of the greatest tragedies of man's long trek along the highway of history has been the limiting of neighborly concern to tribe, race, class or nation." Martin Luther King, Jr.

                  by brae70 on Thu May 02, 2013 at 10:30:03 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

    •  You have been reduced to a stereotype. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      commonmass, cassandracarolina

      By someone who nevertheless feels superior to you while she does it. Nice.

  •  Interesting question! (7+ / 0-)

    It deserves non-polemical answers, though.  Here are a couple, tentatively advanced:

    1) Worse-off people don't have as much discretionary time and resources (for things like computers and a quiet space to use them) as better-off people.

    2) People of color have socially sanctioned (i.e. not seen as racially or otherwise obnoxious) competing online options for self-expression and community, and as the diarist suggests many people of color likely feel more comfortable with those options.

    3) Children, especially small to medium ones, take up a lot of adults' discretionary time.  Take it from me.

    Is language part of it?  Could be, but in a second-order way.  People don't choose their mode of expression for the most part--it's something they come to from their background, education, and other things that all map to where they are in society.  A balkanized, exclusionary society like we have in the US is going to end up with balkanized, exclusionary language, which then feeds back into those phenomena such that someone who wanted to transcend the divisions (in either direction!) would be faced with a lot of practical obstacles.  

    I'm not a voluntarist or an idealist at heart, I'm a materialist (I'm the guy who said, just yesterday, that "I love Marx, for real!" or words to that effect.)  I don't think we get societal change than brings us together in a healthy way by changing how we talk; I think we get it by advocating (successfully) for policies that bring people out of marginalization and deprivation.  

    I'll choose not to engage with the continuing hyping of the very occasional racist or racialized criticisms of President Obama, which are dispatched with the contempt they deserve but which some people insist on using as a cudgel to win arguments they can't and shouldn't otherwise win.  Oops, I think I just engaged with it.

    You know, I sometimes think if I could see, I'd be kicking a lot of ass. -Stevie Wonder at the Glastonbury Festival, 2010

    by Rich in PA on Thu May 02, 2013 at 09:30:25 AM PDT

  •  What I get out of this diary (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    commonmass, doc2, corvo

    is that, apparently, being literate equates to being (1) White and male, or (2) oppressed by white males.

    How about just figuring out that being literate just makes communication easier?

    You can't keep a mighty tree alive (much less expect it to thrive) by only spritzing the fine leaves at its tippy-top. The fate of the whole tree depends on nurturing the grassroots. - Jim Hightower

    by PSzymeczek on Thu May 02, 2013 at 10:04:35 AM PDT

  •  very well written and spot on (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cassandracarolina, AoT, sexgenderbody

    i can still remember my days long ago in libraries reading books about the things they left out. our past is riddled with the elite (winners) forcing the common (losers) to be saddled with their own interpretation of what life is about. for many that life was the bottom of their boot. how many cultures have been forced to learn the language, adopt the culture and spiritual beliefs of their oppressors? our own recent past has such atrocities that would illicit ill feelings and physical pain if plainly laid out.

    the analysis is correct in my opinion. dkos is certainly more white culture than anything else. it's too bad people aren't willing to dig deeper into this here.

    i appreciate prose, poetry and expression from all cultures. i am looking forward to more diversity in corporate america, television and the arts in general. we should learn more languages rather than just one. we should accommodate foreign cultures and languages. we could go even further and place them at the same level as our own.

    if you do happen to read my comment, thanks for writing this diary. i am everything your analysis reports and i get it.

    -You want to change the system, run for office.

    by Deep Texan on Thu May 02, 2013 at 10:20:26 AM PDT

    •  tell me... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      corvo

      what is black culture and what is women's culture?

      I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

      by jbou on Thu May 02, 2013 at 12:05:32 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  a philosopher once said (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cassandracarolina, commonmass

        an emplaced experience.

        which means the answer is subjective but no less true.

        a poet once said:

        Sometimes I think about Great-Uncle Paul who left Tuskegee,
        Alabama to become a forester in Oregon and in so doing
        became fundamentally white for the rest of his life, except
        when he traveled without his white wife to visit his siblings—
        now in New York, now in Harlem, USA—just as pale-skinned,
        as straight-haired, as blue-eyed as Paul, and black.

        -You want to change the system, run for office.

        by Deep Texan on Thu May 02, 2013 at 12:29:55 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I love the data in the diary (4+ / 0-)

    And parts of it remind me of whenever someone in a rather loose group (including me) writes a 'systems' diary of exactly how the social safety net works, on the ground.

    You see the best and the worst of DKos.

    There are the dear souls who want to help, no matter how many times you say that this isn't a fund-raising diary, it's an awareness-raising diary, and those who want to learn. <3

    There are the people who want to feel like they've helped, and so you hear about rice and beans for the ⁿth time (bonus points if they think it's a brand new thing! super condescending). If you want to feel like you're helping, donate $5-10 to your local food bank, or some time. Really, you'll learn a lot, and do a ton of good! :) And you'll understand that we learned about rice & beans as kids, not in college. ;)

    Or those with their pet fixes, and they don't care if it's contraindicated for you, if it's dangerous, that your doctor has said no, they will attack you for saying "Sorry, thanks for the idea, but I can't, here's why" (and you always add why, you're poor on an affluent site...it's how it works. We're so used to explaining our every choice.). Some will even follow you in KosMail. I know it's happened to me a few times, and I doubt I'm alone.  

    So I love the data in the diary, I understand the frustration, but damn, you stick around! That's the way it works here. You defend your thesis.

    Anyway. Back to figuring out how to get by.

    Get 10% off with KATALOGUE2013 at my shop, or go to the Kos Katalogue!

    by LoreleiHI on Thu May 02, 2013 at 10:51:45 AM PDT

    •  I just saw this. I don't know the diarist (2+ / 0-)

      and I do remember Soothsayer's diary (there's a link in this diary) back in 2011.

      I can't comment on how accurate the data is. But I think the real question is how does Daily Kos draw more people of color?  I think we do need more people of color. I just wouldn't know how Daily Kos could go about that.

      We used to have some very talented people but they left Daily Kos or were banned. I don't think Daily Kos is better off for it. We don't have their perspective anymore.

      I wish people would return and begin posting again. Daily Kos is supposed to be a "big tent" Democratic site and that means it is a given not everyone will agree and we'll have different perspectives.

      I think Daily Kos is stronger when it has more progressive perspectives, not fewer.

      As a member of Courtesy Kos, I am dedicated to civility and respect for all kossacks, regardless of their opinions, affiliations, or cliques.

      by joedemocrat on Thu May 02, 2013 at 05:04:32 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  We once banned "Big Tent Democrat" too, (0+ / 0-)

        but those days are gone.

        Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

        by corvo on Thu May 02, 2013 at 08:07:36 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I would suggest that you use Quantcast... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      corvo

      ...and take a look at the numbers it generates for other websites.

      Let's just say that they....get interesting.

      The word "parent" is supposed to be a VERB, people...

      by wesmorgan1 on Thu May 02, 2013 at 05:41:58 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  A lot of sh*t was stirred in this post-and-run. nt (3+ / 0-)

    What is truth? -- Pontius Pilate

    by commonmass on Thu May 02, 2013 at 11:40:59 AM PDT

    •  and at the end of the day, all the diarist (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jrooth, commonmass, corvo

      wanted was that we either "own" or "change" the status quo. That's an awfully vague mission with no guarantees of better outcomes in terms of electing more or better Democrats. Frankly, I wouldn't spend an ounce of my energy "owning" or "changing" conditions here (especially since the diarist isn't hanging out in the comments to help us with this Sisyphian task).

      As much as I hate to remember it, this site is a business. It operates in a free market. Nobody is forced to come here (some of us have gone through periods when we're "addicted" to coming here, but that's really our problem, not the problem of The Powers That Be).

      If the business operates in a way that drives away users and advertisers, the market will have made its point. Kos has told us that advertising revenue has dropped off significantly. Maybe that's because we're no longer in an election year, maybe the site has "peaked" - who knows? Someone (presumably) is reading those tea leaves and making adjustments accordingly.

      This isn't the only place on Earth for Progressives to gather. Rather than focusing our limited energies on adjusting the site, we should be spending them on the 2014 House elections.

      Those who do not understand history are condemned to repeat it... in summer school.

      by cassandracarolina on Thu May 02, 2013 at 12:02:10 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Do the Right Thing (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      just another vet, commonmass, corvo

      she threw the garbage can through the window and ran.

      I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

      by jbou on Thu May 02, 2013 at 12:07:50 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Hmmm....Diarist's DKos profile points to LinkedIn. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    corvo

    Currently VP of Strategic Market Solutions for Mojohost, a tech provider in Farmington Hills, MI.

    Attended Columba College (Chicago), a private media/arts college, and William Paterson University of New Jersey.

    If the picture is accurate, he appears as a white male.

    So, basically, he's a college-educated white executive.

    That kind of changes one's perspective on the diary.

    (I note, with passing interest, that Mojohost is apparently a player in the adult online industry; they were a top-level sponsor of the Phoenix Forum.)

    The word "parent" is supposed to be a VERB, people...

    by wesmorgan1 on Thu May 02, 2013 at 03:47:07 PM PDT

    •  Kind of reminds me of the good old days (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      just another vet

      when some fraud claiming to be a prison guard at an American-run facility in Iraq got tons of support from Kossacks desperate to believe that we really were all Knights in Shining Armor, and more than willing to dump donuts on anyone suggesting otherwise . . . until the fraud was exposed.

      Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

      by corvo on Thu May 02, 2013 at 04:42:09 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Such a cute closing... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    corvo, just another vet
    I'm fairly certain that I will get a shit-ton of 'manpain', denial, accusations and probably kicked off the site.  I will probably not turn this into a debate.  I am not defending my experience, observations or the demographics of this site and the Democratic Party.
    Translation: Now that I've ranted, I'm leaving.  I don't have to defend anything, because I'm right.  Anyone who disagrees with me is obviously a tool.

    The word "parent" is supposed to be a VERB, people...

    by wesmorgan1 on Thu May 02, 2013 at 03:52:06 PM PDT

    •  Well, in the diarist's previous masterwork (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      just another vet

      we were informed that

      we are the problem.  all of the problems.  and not just some of us - all of us.   we are bullies, rapists, murderers and we live off the sweat and pain of anyone we can.  you may not have raped or stolen land but you sure as hell dine off the privilege of being a member of the rape and murder class
      -- which I for one would be willing to discuss seriously if it weren't so primitive in its essentialism, and if the diarist had anything resembling a concrete solution to offer, just vague talk of "protest" and our responsibility to throw other men "under the bus."

      So, yeah, I think we're dealing with a troll, but given the recent ex cathedra pronouncements about how to talk with those claiming to be members of a minority group, I suspect the diarist is prime FPer material.

      Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

      by corvo on Thu May 02, 2013 at 04:38:48 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  most of these comment, merit no reply (0+ / 0-)

    most responses fall into this category:

    diarist is __
    diarist does /  does not do _
    __

    therefore...ignore the point of the diary

    rather than
    yes, this is a predominantly white, male site representing the Democratic party.  
    do we want that?  
    how does that keep happening?  
    what are we doing about it?
    plenty of the former and little of the latter.  

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