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Will printed guns be game changers? If anybody with the money can buy, lease or otherwise gain access to a 3-D printer, raw materials and the proper "blueprints" via open-source software, will any gun laws be enforceable anywhere? Some gun parts have in the past been printed. But until a fully functional firearm was produced, all those questions were just hypothetical. But now such a gun has been printed and tested. Elias Groll introduces us to Cody Wilson, the anarchist behind the world's first 3-D printed gun:

"I like Camus, man."

That's how Cody Wilson, the man behind the first fully functional 3-D printed gun, replied when asked by the right-wing radio host Alex Jones to describe his political heroes. This past week, Wilson's company, Defense Distributed,announced that it had created a functioning handgun produced by a 3-D printer -- a device that creates products from electronic blueprints by layering plastic -- and that it planned to make the schematics freely available online.

First working plastic gun printed via 3D printer.
Everything in this gun except the metal in the
firing pin and a six-ounce weight required
for detection was manufactured out of plastic
 on a 3D printer.
So far, Wilson's effort has largely been portrayed in the media in two ways: as a dangerous way to circumvent gun-control statutes and as a tech story about how an innovative manufacturing technology is being harnessed for unanticipated ends. But there's a political story here, too.

While it's easy to caricature Wilson, a 25-year-old law student at the University of Texas, as a right-wing nut hell bent on defending his Second Amendment rights, a common thread of anarchist thinking runs through nearly all Wilson's public statements. This isn't just a guy who loves his guns — this is a political project. Or at least it purports to be.

"Now that we have a [federal license to manufacture guns] we can ... develop something like a single-shot completely printable plastic gun," he said on Alex Jones's show back in March. "Yes, it's undetectable, but more importantly it's unobservable by institutions and countries and sovereigns. ... This might be a politically important object."

Wilson is the rare gun-rights advocate who drops names like Michel Foucault, Albert Camus, and John Milton in his interviews, and the worldview he's selling has more in common with hacktivist collectives like Anonymous than bearded woodsmen preparing for the endtimes. […]

[Says Wilson:] "But what this project's really about, fuck your laws, you know what I'm saying? It's stepping up, it's being able to go, you know what, I don't like this legal regime I neatly step outside of it. Now what, you know?" […]


Blast from the Past. At Daily Kos on this date in 2009FL-Sen: Conservative Base Looking To Sink Crist:

Democratic odds of winning the open Senate seat in Florida go up significantly if the Republican nominee is not Gov. Charlie Crist.

Florida House Speaker Marco Rubio is also in the race, and preparing to run to the right of Crist, who is what passes for a moderate in today's Republican Party. And Florida establishment conservatives are already lining up behind Rubio, including one of the state's most prominent politicians, Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen.

Apparently, the "successful" conservative torpedoing of Arlen Specter is serving as a model for would-be Crist-beaters:

"Specter has not changed on social issues for his entire career, and Pennsylvania Republican primary voters were OK with that; but the last straw was the stimulus vote," Navarro said. "I think Charlie has greatly misjudged the incredible damage of his fawning support of the stimulus package."

Tweet of the Day:

Saxby Chambliss career highlights: 1) hole-in-one; 2) defeating a multi-amputee Vietnam hero Senator by implying he sides w/terrorists
@delrayser via Twitter for Android



On today's Kagro in the Morning show, Greg Dworkin's round up on the flu, the revision of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, the implosion of the Howard Kurtz brand, and follow-up on the shooting in Kentucky. We also read Jill Lawrence's "The Most Bogus Argument Against New Gun Laws," and Josh Marshall's gun mash-up, "When Stories Collide." The week in Congress, featuring some good coverage from our own Mark E Anderson of the so-called Working Families Flexibility Act, and Jonathan Bernstein on the socio-political (and everything else-o) lesson of the Marketplace Fairness Act.


High Impact Posts. Top Comments.

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Comment Preferences

  •  804,139 registered users on dKos now. (13+ / 0-)

    Here are the 10 newest registered users on dKos.  Hope to see their comments and diaries here soon!  (If they're not spammers.)

    seed7vision
    dibblepush4
    tubsummer4
    cod97doll
    slip73room
    viola59sugar
    pairrat82
    pushbrazil25
    bomber25puffin
    yardcrown46


    And since our society is obsessed with numbers that end in a lot of zeros as milestones, here's a special shoutout to users:
    #802,700: lunchhandle79
    #802,800: hurfner0078 (spammer)
    #802,900: velvetlumber3
    #803,000: net94mouse
    #803,100: idendpay89 (spammer)
    #803,200: order99quilt
    #803,300: kevinsled00
    #803,400: wormink05
    #803,500: botany4guilty
    #803,600: fight6donna
    #803,700: wash2pastry
    #803,800: wing8jet
    #803,900: kevinmatch1
    #804,000: sort1paste
    #804,100: spring54page

    We've added a whopping 1,518 more users in the last 24 hours.  This is a continuation going back to May where we've been absolutely flooded with new users.  I'm pretty sure almost all of these new users are spammers or bots.  While the rate had been getting faster, it seems they suddenly started slowing down right when Hurricane Sandy hit.  It slowed down to under 1,000 new users in a 24-hour period, and we were back down to somewhat over 100 new users every 24 hours or so, until about January 30th, when it exploded again.  What are they planning?


    And for your Diary Rescue music pleasure, here's Wax Fang's "Majestic".

    It was featured on American Dad! last night in this touching scene.

    •  This is why... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      rktect, mmacdDE

      We should start taking ammunition regulation seriously.

      Call me when you can 3-D print smokeless gunpowder out of plastic. That'll be a sight to see.

      •  I'm a bearded woodsman preparing for the endtime (0+ / 0-)

        also a registered architect who watched 3D cad printing polymerization technology become available back during the Reagan administration and as the machines necessary dropped in price from about $20,000 to $1000 observed schools like U Texas Austin and MIT make it available free to budding architects who wanted to make 3D models and mechanical engineers who wanted prototypes.

        Inkjet printer systems like the Objet PolyJet system spray photopolymer materials onto a build tray in ultra-thin layers (between 16 and 30 microns) until the part is completed. Each photopolymer layer is cured with UV light after it is jetted, producing fully cured models that can be handled and used immediately, without post-curing. The gel-like support material, which is designed to support complicated geometries, is removed by hand and water jetting. It is also suitable for elastomers.
        Essentially it cuts thin slices or sections through a 3d cad model and sprays them onto a build tray. Forget about the guns though, the device can build chocolate.

        Live Free or Die --- Investigate, Incarcerate

        by rktect on Tue May 07, 2013 at 02:58:51 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  When you post photos (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Eddie C

      of empty Cheetos bags, we will call the internet police.

      {Not a sigline. You are hallucinating.}

      by koNko on Tue May 07, 2013 at 04:20:31 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  That 3-D gun guy... (16+ / 0-)

    can "step outside" of our laws and kindly remove himself to Somalia.  Otherwise, he's only a chickenshit anarchist unwilling to live in the actual thing.

    •  It would have happened eventually... (7+ / 0-)

      If this guy hadn't come up with the plans and designs for the 3-D printed gun, someone else would have soon enough.

      Political Compass: -6.75, -3.08

      by TexasTom on Mon May 06, 2013 at 08:37:21 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  True that. n/t (4+ / 0-)

        "Go well through life"-Me (As far as I know)

        by MTmofo on Mon May 06, 2013 at 08:50:10 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  So what I want know is... (9+ / 0-)

          ...if the damned thing blows up in some person's hand, can they sue the guy who provided them with the files to print it out?

          Float like a manhole cover, sting like a sash weight! Clean Coal Is A Clinker!

          by JeffW on Mon May 06, 2013 at 08:52:12 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Certainly they couldn't write up the (5+ / 0-)

            complaint themselves.

            "Go well through life"-Me (As far as I know)

            by MTmofo on Mon May 06, 2013 at 08:55:17 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  caveat emptor (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            MTmofo, RUNDOWN, JeffW, BruinKid

            anyone willing to try to make this is taking his hands into his own hands?  (to coin a phrase)

          •  You can sue anybody any time for anything. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            TexasTom

            With enough legal fees in the hands of good lawyers, you can even keep the case alive for a good while.

            Winning?

            That's the rub.

            As a practical matter, even if you could make a good claim that the files were faulty, turning them into the proximate cause of your accident is fraught with peril:

            1. The files could contain big bold disclaimers:  "Not a working prototype" "This thing blows up" "Use at your own risk".

            2. There is this little problem of human error in the assembly and or choice of printer/materials, technical problems with the printer, quality of the materials used (ie, manufacturing problems, etc), etc, etc, etc.  In other words, if you were able to identify a provider of the "plans" to sue, you would have the daunting task of proving that you have faithfully, competently, and without error actually followed them.

            3. It's the internet, baby. Can you prove the file you got was not corrupted in some way by some one after the original design was created?

            4.  It's the internet, baby.  Can you attach any names at all to the fool thing?

            The practical answer becomes that you can try, but you'll just end up spending lots of money.

            LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

            by dinotrac on Tue May 07, 2013 at 01:52:50 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  There's plenty of guys who can make a functioning (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Bush Bites, cfm

        AK pattern fully automatic weapon with basic machine shop tools that are cheaper than current 3-d printers.

        Some of them do it in caves in the Khyber Pass.

        Wash. Judge Tells Cops To Return Man’s Marijuana Or Be Found In Contempt

        by JesseCW on Tue May 07, 2013 at 01:50:55 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  The war on drugs can teach us many things. (5+ / 0-)

      For this point I will comment on the fact that the moment you try and prohibit anything , you #1 increase people's interest in whatever it is. #2 you create a black market in it.

      This knee-jerk opposition to a probation of ANY kind  is not a bad thing, it is infact a rather American and freedom loving thing.

      As long as someone is not hurting another person, the government has no right or reason to interfere with the actions of its people.

      That being said gun control is one topic where there seems to be a social benefit to rules being place on its population.

      As such in a free nation there should and is debate on the proper level of compromise on the topic.

      These people who fight tooth and nail to protect their freedoms are a valuable sort, they counter balance to those who bow down any "security for freedom" trade off.

      I personally have very contradictory feelings.

      I think for myself. "I should be able to have whatever gun I want. I am smart able to think for myself and should be able to do whatever I want"

      but I also recognize that easy access to guns allows the insane and minor criminals to commit stupid and terrible acts.  

      That leaves me in a somewhat neutral/conflicted situation.

      I believe in good regulation, but I do not want it to impinge on my or anyone's rights.

      To have an intelligent conversation we all need to recognize both sides of the argument.  

    •  actually fabricating a firearm is not too (11+ / 0-)

      difficult if personal safety and effectiveness are not considerations.

      http://www.thehomegunsmith.com/...

      zip guns and their variants have always been around; cheap mass produced weapons easily available replaced these cruder attempts.  A quick check shows multiple videos online showing how to make a gun with some fairly common materials and requiring only an average skill level.  No need to be a gunsmith.

    •  Perhaps you are unaware of the history... (0+ / 0-)

      of the "Liberator" pistol?

      Your hate-mail will be graded.

      by PavePusher on Mon May 06, 2013 at 10:40:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  But the NRA will hate this (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      betterdemsonly

      so that's a good thing.  NOW they will be all in favor of gun control, and everyone will be able to see how hypocritical they are.

    •  I think its useful to have all the information (0+ / 0-)

      because while some people would use this technology to build guns, others would find it suitable for printing photo voltaic cells in the third world.

      The US already has so many guns per capita that in some areas (I saw it in Boston's Area D) the rooms police use to store each months pickup of illegal weapons before their destruction have structural problems carrying the load.

      Live Free or Die --- Investigate, Incarcerate

      by rktect on Tue May 07, 2013 at 03:06:08 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  how will gun manufacturers get in on the act? (4+ / 0-)

    If people can make their own guns, the gun manufacturers will lose market share (eventually).  They won't like that.

    Defund Koch industries

    by machiado on Mon May 06, 2013 at 08:34:31 PM PDT

    •  Not a problem... (5+ / 0-)

      ...the gun manufacturers will sell performance.  Or to put it bluntly, the ability to put a large number of bullets into the air in a very short period of time, with maximum range and killing power.

      This 3-D gun doesn't represent much of a threat to the entrenched gun makers.

      Political Compass: -6.75, -3.08

      by TexasTom on Mon May 06, 2013 at 08:40:13 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Not within our lifetime. (5+ / 0-)

      3d printing is EXPENSIVE not cheap. For whatever level of quality mass production via factory is always going to be cheaper within our lifetime.

      Eventually we may have some paradigm shift in manufacturing but that will not happen within a reasonable time frame.

      Once 3d printing becomes competitive with any form of manufacturing that will be a COMPLETE change in our economy.

      You think outsourcing to China and Bangladesh is bad? Try having no need for humans doing any manufacturing ANYWHERE in the world.

      •  Somebody has to manufacture (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JeffW, Glen The Plumber, MaikeH, machiado

        the printers and plastic.  So there's that. /wishing that thought didn't occur to me.

        "Go well through life"-Me (As far as I know)

        by MTmofo on Mon May 06, 2013 at 08:49:27 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  You Might Worry if You Made Something (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Glen The Plumber, dinotrac

        for a living that can be done this way, that is complicated or rare enough that the cost of 3-d was relatively less important.

        I'm going to be losing a lot of sleep for a while.

        We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

        by Gooserock on Mon May 06, 2013 at 08:57:55 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  it's not as expensive as you may think--and it (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        machiado

        keeps getting cheaper all the time.

        Already you can buy basic-level 3d printers for less than $400--and if you're willing to assemble it yourself you can download plans for free and print out all the parts for just the cost of metal and plastic printing materials.

        Once 3d printing becomes competitive with any form of manufacturing that will be a COMPLETE change in our economy.
        Absolutely. It will be a game-changers just like the Computer Revolution. It's just a matter of time until 3d printers are as cheap and ubiquitous as inkjet printers are now. Each of us will own our own means of production.
      •  Eh. Someone has to fix the machines, move the (0+ / 0-)

        raw materials, move the finished products, install stuff in peoples homes, convince people to buy it, design it, ect.

        There will still be plenty of work to be done, and the fight will remain what it has always been.

        Wash. Judge Tells Cops To Return Man’s Marijuana Or Be Found In Contempt

        by JesseCW on Tue May 07, 2013 at 01:56:33 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You don't have to fix 'em if you can just print (0+ / 0-)

          their replacements.

          "Hey Pete, my printer broke.  Mind printing me up a new one?  I'll bring the supplies and the brewskis."

          "Sure.  Why not? It's not like I have to go to work or anything."

          LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

          by dinotrac on Tue May 07, 2013 at 02:09:01 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Depends on case (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        machiado

        For customization or low volumes, can be relatively cheap.

        Otherwise, I agree with your general observation except in mass-production applications where small amounts of materials or large areas in a single pass are concerned.

        Some mass-produced "large electronics" are already manufactured with printable processes integrated with conventional processes.

        For example, some large panel displays now use lighting circuitry printed on the display substrate replacing large circuit boards which would be thicker, more expensive and more complex to assemble. What you do is print a silver ink circuit pattern, a dielectric coating and then silver paste dots and mount the components, then solder using a low temperature sintering process. Total cycle time is shorter and less materials are used. The precision (one set-up, two or three workstations) enables building small structures on a large area and the capital investment is also lower.

        Also some very small structures are built quickly.

        But, folks, this does not mean you are going to build your own TV with a maker bot unless you can afford about $5Bn for your own large panel LCD plant.

        {Not a sigline. You are hallucinating.}

        by koNko on Tue May 07, 2013 at 04:46:54 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Never underestimate the power of exp. curves n/t (0+ / 0-)
    •  people are able to make their own ciggies (7+ / 0-)

      grow their own baccer, cure it, shred it and roll it into a ciggie (I have a roller my dad left me) but few do it.  The same with guns.  Not too hard to fabricate but the mass produced models are so much prettier..........

    •  By controlling the market for ammo (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Bush Bites, JeffW, Eric Nelson

      like they already do, reducing production while blaming the government thru their PR arms like Alex Jones.

      And right now they are the equivalent of plastic flintlocks as far as usefulness - one round at a time before having to change out the barrel or other components.

      In the city you can buy a Saturday Night Special for the price of materials for one of these, (forget the printer itself )- and the rounds and firing pin are still metal, NTM it's not very small - about the size of a flare gun.

      Conservatism is an obsession with the past ... with little regard for the future.

      by RUNDOWN on Mon May 06, 2013 at 09:39:46 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  to be fair, nothing prevents the barrel from (0+ / 0-)

        being printed out of metal.

        •  Except access to the metal-sintering machine. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          RUNDOWN

          Our intrepid, Camus-loving libertarian doesn't strike me as someone who has such access.

          Maybe in 30 years...

          Oh, and the idea of the plastic gun is to give it a small detection footprint. Metal parts kinda negate that advantage, and it would probably be cheaper to use conventional machine tools and parts from Brownell's.

          Float like a manhole cover, sting like a sash weight! Clean Coal Is A Clinker!

          by JeffW on Mon May 06, 2013 at 10:27:34 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  just go here: (0+ / 0-)

            http://www.shapeways.com/...

            Delivery in less than two weeks.  (shrug)

            •  Nice, but $8 per cm³? (0+ / 0-)

              That would get expensive for a zip gun.

              And unless you have them send you the finished parts randomly, someone will figure it out. Kinda detracts from the DIY thing...

              Float like a manhole cover, sting like a sash weight! Clean Coal Is A Clinker!

              by JeffW on Mon May 06, 2013 at 10:39:11 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  you don't need the whole gun to be metal (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                JesseCW, PavePusher

                Just the barrel. To them, it's nothing but a metal tube.  (shrug)

                The rest of the gun works just fine as plastic. It doesn't need to be metal.

                •  And getting Shapeways into the act... (0+ / 0-)

                  ...will leave a digital trail, even if you have them make the metal parts, and ecase them in plastic in your own printer. Again, probably not what our intrepid, camus-loving libertarian would want.

                  Float like a manhole cover, sting like a sash weight! Clean Coal Is A Clinker!

                  by JeffW on Mon May 06, 2013 at 11:04:47 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  a digital trail to what--the gun that can't be (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    PavePusher

                    traced back to you?

                    THAT is the real advantage to it, not the low-detectability (who wants to rob people on an airplane anyway?).

                    You can download it, get your barrel, rob a gas station with it, and drop it in the trash. Even if the cops find it (how many trash barrels are there in the city?), they can't trace it to you anyway. Unless they get DNA or prints off it (and have yours on file), in which case the paper trail no longer matters.

                    •  They recover the gun... (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      RUNDOWN

                      ...take it apart, then consult with Shapeways. You're busted.

                      And why go to all that trouble for a throwaway gun? Maybe it'll be cheap in 30 years, but not now.

                      Float like a manhole cover, sting like a sash weight! Clean Coal Is A Clinker!

                      by JeffW on Mon May 06, 2013 at 11:31:10 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  More to the point: You can engage in a political (0+ / 0-)

                      act of terror/freedom (depending).

                      Even more to the point: You create an awareness that you can engage in a political act of terro/freedom.

                      Or, of course, you can just keep it around for self-defense.
                      In that case, it probably doesn't matter how many shots it can fire, or fi somebody could trace it back to you: it's in your possession and isn't likely to ever be fired.

                      LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

                      by dinotrac on Tue May 07, 2013 at 02:13:26 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

          •  The idea of a plastic gun here is that cheap (0+ / 0-)

            3D printers use plastic -- today.

            The small detection footprint is a side effect that may be very interesting to some, but is an asterisk for most.

            LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

            by dinotrac on Tue May 07, 2013 at 02:10:52 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  "reducing production"? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Tom Seaview

        Citations, please?  Or merely CT-snark?

        Your hate-mail will be graded.

        by PavePusher on Mon May 06, 2013 at 10:48:37 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Economics 101 (0+ / 0-)

          Supply and Demand.

          Reduce supplies during increasing demand ...

          Make more $$$.

          But firearms manufacturers are "above" all that I guess - they just make millions for the cause of  - "Freedom".

          That last line would be considered snark.

          Conservatism is an obsession with the past ... with little regard for the future.

          by RUNDOWN on Tue May 07, 2013 at 09:03:57 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  So, can't address my question... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Tom Seaview

            or provide citations to support your CT.

            Got it.

            http://money.cnn.com/...

            http://thesouthern.com/...

            http://www.ammoland.com/...

            Have a great day.

            Your hate-mail will be graded.

            by PavePusher on Tue May 07, 2013 at 03:59:33 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  You have no question to answer (0+ / 0-)

              I never said I agreed with the government ammo grab CT - it's propaganda.

              And your links quote the PR departments of ammo manufacturers, not exactly an "unbiased" source.

              You looking for disagreement, and don't even understand the original comment.

              Right back at ya!

              Conservatism is an obsession with the past ... with little regard for the future.

              by RUNDOWN on Tue May 07, 2013 at 05:35:16 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Perhaps I misunderstood you? (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                gerrilea
                By controlling the market for ammo like they already do, reducing production while blaming the government...
                Seemed to be buying into the CT...

                If I translated poorly, mea culpa.

                Your hate-mail will be graded.

                by PavePusher on Tue May 07, 2013 at 06:25:16 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  The ammo purchases are propaganda? (0+ / 0-)

                2.4 billion rounds isn't an ammo grab by the government?

                Okay, please provide us with historic reference points say like how many bullets did DHS, SSA, IRS, et al purchase in the past 10 yrs? I'd take a yearly breakdown as a legitimate starting point...that's if you wish to prove your "propaganda" theory as being valid.

                Snopes has a little bit of the truth here:

                What I find absurd is that the SSA needs 174,000 rounds of hollow point bullets for 295 agents.  Or that NOAA needs 47,000 rounds for 61 agents. Or the US Forest Service needing 310,000 bullets for 737 "LEO" agents.

                What I haven't been able to find is historical purchases.  Are these purchase out of line from the previous years? Why does the Department of Education need armed agents again?  If someone defaults on their student loans, shouldn't that be handled by say the Police? Or even the FBI??? Or worse, a debt collector???

                Is it any wonder why we have a gun-ho society??? Really?? Everyone and their brother is a Federal "agent" of some sort, good grief!

                Hey but who knows, maybe they really shoot 2.4 billion rounds each year in training, if so, who they planning on shooting???

                Jeeze Louise!  There really has to be some common sense here, so far it isn't making much sense.

                -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                by gerrilea on Tue May 07, 2013 at 06:49:05 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Infowars sourced? (0+ / 0-)

                  How about any legitimate source.

                  Newsmax and WND do not count either.

                  Accepting "bids" is not a "grab".

                  Research the difficulties in finding ammo (and most other metals goods) - during WW2, not unprecedented.

                  Conservatism is an obsession with the past ... with little regard for the future.

                  by RUNDOWN on Wed May 08, 2013 at 06:49:31 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

  •  "I like Camus, man." (10+ / 0-)

    well, that just proves his cultural and intellectual sophistication, right there.

    The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

    by Laurence Lewis on Mon May 06, 2013 at 08:36:14 PM PDT

  •  Anyone with depression and a 3D (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JML9999, Glen The Plumber

    printer will be able to download a suicide kit (in the form of a gun) and print out all he or she needs to put a bullet in the head without leaving home.

  •  So does your school's marching band... (6+ / 0-)

    get to open for the Rolling Stones??  Here was the opening at Staples Center from last Friday.

  •  I think 3d printers themselves are game changers (8+ / 0-)

    They will remake the entire economy. People will be able to print everything from coffee mugs to cars (one piece at a time). All the factories worldwide that make all sorts of doodads will shut down as people just print their own, and all the chain stores that sell the cheap doodads will close down right along with them.  "Made in China" will be replaced with "Made at home". Each of us will literally own his/her own means of production.

    The effects will be far-reaching.

    •  hard to say (5+ / 0-)

      3 d printing only seems useful for items with very few moving parts. And it does nothing for electronics, or most decent clothing.

      I mean, yeah, I could 3d print my souvenier mug from a creepy roadside attraction, but the whole point is that I want to buy something from the creepy roadside attraction.

    •  If you only need plastic parts... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JML9999, Glen The Plumber

      ...as the machines for forming metal parts will be big, expensive, and power-hungry.

      And I wish I could afford one, after seeing what they could do in a recent issue of Scientific American!

      Float like a manhole cover, sting like a sash weight! Clean Coal Is A Clinker!

      by JeffW on Mon May 06, 2013 at 08:56:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Here's an alternative view of why they won't. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JeffW, BigOkie

      Remember the 1960s version of the same idea? The box in your kitchen that would crap out any kind of food you wanted? Press a button and have a croissant, or a chicken cordon bleu, or a bowl of clam chowder?

      Inevitably, the technology necessary to do that magic is a mixture of wiping differences away between things and turning them into parts and concepts. Which, while possible, turn out to be pale imitations of the real things. Not as interesting. Not as complex. Not as materially rich [which is the biggest problem]. Not worth the trouble to invent the parts or the concepts. And it makes stuff taste like crap.

      IMHO, there will be markets for home versions of 3D printers which will be more centered on creatively making stuff we don't need---not as a mechanism for making stuff we do need. "Craft" markets, in other words. Humans are makers; we will always appreciate the intricacy, quality, and complexity of made objects that are produced by expert systems.

      The brute ugliness of the gun Cody Wilson just made is full evidence of what I'm talking about. Humans made more aesthetically satisfying weapons thousands of years ago. Wilson's gun is a bulky, meaty thing because the plastic it is printed out of is a shitty material to handle the complexity of motion and explosive forces. No one would choose to make a gun out of plastic, except for it's ease of "printing" by a process that is ignorant of its end task.

      There is a very short list of useful objects that 3D printing currently is applicable to. And the most useful among them are usually hidden inside other more complex objects.

      I'm not saying it is forever impossible for 3D printing to overcome the sophistication of what humans expect out of artifacts in the world. But frankly, it will be generations before a 3D printer can make even a simple birthday cake worth eating.

    •  question is if it will do away with the need (0+ / 0-)

      for metal altogether

    •  I find most of the responses here funny (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Mindful Nature, sfcouple, PavePusher

      It's like listening to everyone in the 80's telling us how computers were too expensive and can't do enough things to ever replace paper for things.  (snicker)

    •  Not so much an anarchist's tool, though (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JeffW, Eric Nelson

      People forget that we've already been down this road already: color printers and counterfeiting.

      Some machines will refuse to copy currency because of embedded software restraints.  Some copiers already print their serial numbers and the date in small invisible background patterns on everything they copy or print.

      How much easier will that be for 3D printers?  In five years if you try to print a gun with one, it'll call the cops on you.  Software exists to allow your laptop to do that now if it's stolen.  There's even an open source version.

      If in the future I try to print out a gun, I'll probably get this:

      I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.
      But I'm afraid I might get this instead if my 3D printer has a self-enforcement mode:
      Make my day.

      Tell me what to write. tellmewhattowrite.com 'To know what is right and to do it are two different things.' - Chushingura, a tale of The Forty-Seven Ronin

      by rbird on Mon May 06, 2013 at 11:08:21 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  but here's the difference . . . . . . (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        rbird

        Unlike copy machines or scanners, anyone anywhere can make their own 3d printer. You can even write your own slicing and printing software for it.

        I am indeed certain that the approach you suggest will indeed be taken. But just as people still are able to use copiers and scanners to counterfeit money, people will still be able to use 3d printers to print anything they want. The best we'll be able to do is keep the piracy to a minimum and only for casual use, like pirated MP3s and AVI movies.

        •  Lenny.... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mmacdDE, Caipirinha

          I'm not really worried about what someone like me would do.  I build my own computers, I'm comfortable around tools, I grew up in my late father's machine shop.  The idea of doing it myself comes naturally to me.  People like me usually find a way to build what we want.  But I've discovered over the years that this makes me somewhat unique.  The concern is the ability for any moron to make a gun with a 3D printer, just as the concern of the Secret Service was a potential flood of casual counterfeiters.  The anti-counterfeiting  devices in color copiers prevent that (along with certain security measures in the new bills).  The Secret Service knew they weren't going to stop old-school counterfeiters, who are still out there, doing it the hard way.

          I should point out that even people like me can be defeated sometimes.  Lack of a specific tool, expense, you-name-it.  Also, don't underestimate the ability of technologists and the technology itself to prevent unapproved uses.  Think about your cell phone.  What is it really up to?  Has someone remotely activated the gps tracking on it?  Is there a hidden cc command that copies your text messages to multiple servers?  Many of our technologies have hidden corners.  Soon there will be no way of seeing into every little corner.

          Tell me what to write. tellmewhattowrite.com 'To know what is right and to do it are two different things.' - Chushingura, a tale of The Forty-Seven Ronin

          by rbird on Tue May 07, 2013 at 12:05:23 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I should have said.... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Caipirinha

            "...makes us somewhat unique."  There are a lot of people who are "makers," but as a percentage of the overall population, we're a very small group.  That's what I was trying to get at.  It's actually a little frightening to realize that the people who like to build stuff are probably outnumbered by about five to one by the fans of Robot Chicken.

            Now I'm depressed...

            Tell me what to write. tellmewhattowrite.com 'To know what is right and to do it are two different things.' - Chushingura, a tale of The Forty-Seven Ronin

            by rbird on Tue May 07, 2013 at 01:03:34 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  since they can't print smokeless powder . . . . (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            rbird

            it seems that the key weakness is the ammo.

            Regulate that instead.

            As I've often said, I'd be ecstatically happy if every potential criminal had to make his own gun. 90% of them can't even make their own lunch.  (shrug)

            •  I'm gonna have to steal this (0+ / 0-)
              I'd be ecstatically happy if every potential criminal had to make his own gun. 90% of them can't even make their own lunch.
              I knew a few criminals when I was younger, excellent description.  I guess I should say "known criminals" since, according to the Shadow, "Who knows what evil dwells in the hearts of men?"

              If I seem a little goofy, I'm running on no sleep.  Goddamn insomnia struck again last night.

              Tell me what to write. tellmewhattowrite.com 'To know what is right and to do it are two different things.' - Chushingura, a tale of The Forty-Seven Ronin

              by rbird on Tue May 07, 2013 at 10:19:23 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  Game changers for sure, but not sure what (0+ / 0-)

      the change will look like.

      You could make the cheap stuff slowly at home, or go to the store to buy stuff made on industrial grade printers in factories.  Kind of like fixing your own sink or calling the plumber.

      Might be a good thing for the US --

      We don't have many manufacturing jobs now.  Reducing the labor component also reduces the value of cheap labor.  Maybe even recreates the situation that caused Henry Ford to offer the $5 daily wage: Cheaper to pay relatively few people well than to have the machinery go idle.

      LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

      by dinotrac on Tue May 07, 2013 at 02:26:41 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  No. (0+ / 0-)

      You are going way overboard.

      Let me give you a simple hypothetical: how soon will you, Lenny Flank, be able to make your own smartphone at home with a 3D printer, and at what cost on what timeline?

      Work it out. Seriously.

      {Not a sigline. You are hallucinating.}

      by koNko on Tue May 07, 2013 at 04:58:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  OK--it's 1980, and I ask you (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        koNko

        How soon will you, KoNko, be able to play games on your phone. In color.

        The phone that has more computer power than a current Cray, and costs less than a week's pay.

        •  The basic technology (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Caipirinha

          Of that smartphone is a decedent of the Cray and has not fundamentally changed very much. Nor has the manufacturing infrastructure that produced it. Has certainly evolved a lot, but the basic are the same.

          Actually, I work in R+D in the IC industry and 3D technologies have been used for various forms of electronic packaging for about a decade, including work done in the lab I work in. Refer to my remarks elsewhere that describe a product using it.

          3D printing technology is accelerating and will find an increasing number of uses. It's a good solution for some things and will get better.

          But for many reasons, we will see more used in factories productively than by private citizens, and I'll predict the trend for small professional practitioners will evolve into a service center model where engineers & technicians can develop the know how to facilitate quality outcomes and use them productively on a time-share basis, including handling the materials (which is very tricky once you go beyond the simple and crude plastics most makers play with) properly and efficiently (and the high tech materials are very expensive and temperamental, printer wise).

          The main thing, is it's additive technology and that can be good and will get better as it gets cheaper and materials improve, but there are some hard limits, including time, cost and the fact that it quickly runs into a very hard brick wall of  resolution limits in the region of about 10um that represents a "tyranny of numbers" problem that will be very difficult to overcome when there are already cheaper, better processes that have been running for decades on industrial scale and have yet to be surpassed despite persistent rumors of their death for as long.

          10um to 10nm is an incredibly long distance, trust me on that.

          It's really just another tool. Used properly, a good one, but not some sort of world disrupting miracle as many people seem to think these days.

          I would genuinely like to see something as common as a smartphone produced by some makers using a 3D printer, it would be fantastic to be proven so wrong in such a spectacular fashion.

          But what I have seen so far from makers is more like bespoke plastic cases for smartphones. That's different.

          Nothing wrong with that, although I have to say I'm more impressed with the bespoke dental implants and artificial limbs others are making with some of the same printers that are kind of a breakthrough in the niche they serve and a very productive and beneficial use of the technology, verses, say, disposable guns.

          {Not a sigline. You are hallucinating.}

          by koNko on Tue May 07, 2013 at 08:48:45 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Hey Lenny Flank .... (0+ / 0-)

          You are a good guy, and you like technology, so can I give you a task?

          Read this and then write your Congressman.

          It's the best thing you can do to promote 3D printing if you like it.

          And while we're on the subject of Cray computers, read this too, enjoy, and don't mind the ars trolls, they get voted down fast.

          {Not a sigline. You are hallucinating.}

          by koNko on Tue May 07, 2013 at 09:27:24 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  I subscribe to... (7+ / 0-)

    ...The Home Shop Machinist and Machinist's Workshop, and occasionally they have gun-related machining articles. I also read Digital Machinist, but have yet to see any articles about printing guns.

    A single-shot gun is a toy. Any useful weapon would need to be a multi-shot one, and from what I've seen, that requires a directed-energy metal sintering setup that only industrial users can afford.

    Float like a manhole cover, sting like a sash weight! Clean Coal Is A Clinker!

    by JeffW on Mon May 06, 2013 at 08:49:09 PM PDT

  •  Letterman just went after John Boozman (12+ / 0-)

    from Arkansas for voting against gun regulation. Flat out slammed him. T

    Pointed out that 84% of Arkansans want background checks.

    I'm glad Dave is a cranky old guy who says whatever the shit he wants. Good for him.

  •  I seriously doubt he understands Camus (9+ / 0-)

    I've tried to read The Rebel off and on for twenty years and can't make head or tail of it, and I was a philosophy major.

    More likely he just wants to kill an Arab.

  •  I'm not too worried about 3D guns, yet (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dogs are fuzzy

    But I do think they'll lead to lots of interesting questions and scenarios.   Random thoughts:

    -That prototype is so clumsy-looking - it would be damn near impossible to carry it concealed.   Perhaps one day they'll be smaller, but that would require some major advances IMO to find materials that could withstand the pressures involved with firing live ammunition.

    - What happens the first time one of these things blows up in the face of the shooter?  What are the legal implications there?

    - Is a hard-core prepper/Teahadist/anti-government militay type REALLY going to place his trust in one of these things?  When his life might depend upon a firearm's reliability, would he really choose this thing over a proven traditional firearm?

    - The Second Amendment doesn't say anything about 3-D technology, so if these things DO take off, I could see an effort to regulate that particular printing technology, and I doubt the NRA and gun manufacturors would put up a fight.

    - These would still show up on X-ray machines at airport security checkpoints, right?  It might be new technology, but it's still a pretty recognizable shape and IMO would be hard to hide in your carryon bags.

    - Are we going to see a world where authorities go after the computer files/data required to print these things?   Will this become the new "child pornography was found on his computer!"  ??

    - As many have noted, this thing looks like a toy, so are we gonna revisit THAT issue again - where kids with actual toy guns will have to be treated as potential threats because of the existence of 3D guns which resemble toys?

    Just thinking out loud here, as is my curse.  haha

    •  It's not illegal to make your own gun, is it? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      annieli

      Why should this change that?

      I know Reagan signed that anti-plastic-gun law but, given the makeup of SCOTUS, i wouldn't expect that to stand up to a court challenge.

      "Michael Moore, who was filming a movie about corporate welfare called 'Capitalism: A Love Story,' sought and received incentives."

      by Bush Bites on Mon May 06, 2013 at 10:18:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  By the way. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mmacdDE, Dogs are fuzzy

      Rather than trying to ban the data files, a clever campaign would flood the internet with flawed data files.

      But that would be diabolical.

      "Michael Moore, who was filming a movie about corporate welfare called 'Capitalism: A Love Story,' sought and received incentives."

      by Bush Bites on Mon May 06, 2013 at 10:21:37 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I'm not worried eithr. Heck, I'd be entirely happy (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mmacdDE

      if every criminal had to make his own gun first.

    •  "doesn't say anything about 3-D technology" (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      andalusi

      Neither does the First mention any modern method of communication.

      http://www.law.cornell.edu/...

      Some have made the argument, bordering on the frivolous, that only those arms in existence in the 18th century are protected by the Second Amendment . We do not interpret constitutional rights that way. Just as the First Amendment protects modern forms of communications, e.g., Reno v. American Civil Liberties Union, 521 U. S. 844, 849 (1997) , and the Fourth Amendment applies to modern forms of search, e.g., Kyllo v. United States, 533 U. S. 27, 35–36 (2001) , the Second Amendment extends, prima facie,to all instruments that constitute bearable arms, even those that were not in existence at the time of the founding.

      Your hate-mail will be graded.

      by PavePusher on Mon May 06, 2013 at 11:11:27 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  3-D printed guns are a recipe for chaos. (0+ / 0-)

    Especially if they figure out a way to make the whole thing plastic well enough to work for a few shots.  People could print the gun, shoot someone, then just recycle the plastic in their printer.  Forensics would have to learn how to find plastic residue on bullet fragments in corpses and then somehow tie it to a specific printer.  So then there would be laws proposed to make printers use unique chemical identifiers, which the NRA would oppose.  Ugh.

    But the good potential of 3D printing is too great for even this inevitable danger to be prohibitive.  

    Knowing the future is easy: Today's trivia becomes tomorrow's sacrament, and vice-versa.

    by Troubadour on Mon May 06, 2013 at 09:10:13 PM PDT

    •  Don't worry... (0+ / 0-)

      Or maybe worry a lot.  Some color copiers already block the copying of currency.  Laptops rat out thieves to their owners.  A device with access to the internet - that could be mandatory as it is now with some video games and consoles - could rat out its owner for attempting to print firearms.

      Imagine getting these messages from your printer:

      I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.
      You'd better start running, I've already called the cops.
      I guess I left out the good part.  Some game consoles do that now if you try any hardware hacks or attempt to use unauthorized programs.  Hitler found this out the hard way.

      Tell me what to write. tellmewhattowrite.com 'To know what is right and to do it are two different things.' - Chushingura, a tale of The Forty-Seven Ronin

      by rbird on Mon May 06, 2013 at 11:27:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Ballistics is a "science" fraught with plenty (0+ / 0-)

      of false positives as it is.  In reality, it's pretty good when it comes to getting a general idea of the weapon that fired a given recovered bullet, and basically bullshit sold to scientifically illiterate jurors when it comes to claims that a specific gun fired a specific round.

      They'd still be able to find powder residues on a shooter.  They'd still be able to show if that shooter had downloaded gun plans, or recently purchased a 3d printer.  They'll still be able to lift prints.

      Not much really changes.  Anyone who would have the time to melt down a plastic gun would likely have the time to dispose of a normal one beyond any likely recovery as well.

      It's just not a game changer.

      Wash. Judge Tells Cops To Return Man’s Marijuana Or Be Found In Contempt

      by JesseCW on Tue May 07, 2013 at 02:12:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Question about the 3D printed gun (0+ / 0-)

    As far as I know, it is illegal to publish bomb making directions in the Internet isn't it?  (I'm not going to do a search.)  Why can't it be the same for publishing files to print 3D guns?  

    And yes, I know that if people really want to share contraband files over the internet, they can... (see Napster) but with enough indignation from the public and with law enforcement (and Congress) quickly nipping this in the bud, maybe these can go the way of the bomb recipes rather than the Metallica songs?

  •  Right Wing Violent Threat Civil Disobedience? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    socal altvibe, gravlax
    [Says Wilson:] "But what this project's really about, fuck your laws, you know what I'm saying? It's stepping up, it's being able to go, you know what, I don't like this legal regime I neatly step outside of it. Now what, you know?" […]
    Lets see how vigorously these protesters are pepper sprayed and locked up relative to Occupy.  Which tells you who is the bigger threat, and what the authorities prioritize.  

    "We must close union offices, confiscate their money and put their leaders in prison. We must reduce workers salaries and take away their right to strike.” -Adolf Hitler, May 2, 1933

    by bekosiluvu on Mon May 06, 2013 at 09:14:46 PM PDT

  •  I know the idea is to skirt the Commerce clause (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JesseCW

    by having a gun that isn't sold, or manufactured in another state, etc.  But the decision in Wickard v Filburn puts paid to the idea that you can get around the commerce clause, since by printing your own gun, you're affecting demand in the interstate gun market.

    Conservatives need to realize that their Silent Moral Majority is neither silent, nor moral, nor a majority.

    by nominalize on Mon May 06, 2013 at 09:16:50 PM PDT

  •  Or Make A Sten Gun From Scrap Metal (6+ / 0-)

    There’s always free cheddar in a mousetrap, baby

    by bernardpliers on Mon May 06, 2013 at 09:33:21 PM PDT

    •  They were crappy guns but better than plastic (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bernardpliers, Eric Nelson, JesseCW

      There's a reason nobody makes commercial firearms with plastic barrels.

      Oh, damn, I just used the word "nobody". How many seconds will elapse before somebody corrects me by pointing out some obscure but colorful exception?

      Freedom isn't free. Patriots pay taxes.

      by Dogs are fuzzy on Mon May 06, 2013 at 10:14:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  There's 9 mm Tubing Readily Available (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Eric Nelson

        There's a pamphlet called something like "Making the 9 mm SMG" which details how to make your own Sten and apparently there is some commonly available tubing that will work for the barrel.  I never read the book, but it's been out there for probably 20 years.

        There’s always free cheddar in a mousetrap, baby

        by bernardpliers on Mon May 06, 2013 at 10:37:25 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Notice He Can't Hit Squat With The Sten (0+ / 0-)

        MP40 was better, Thompson was more reliable.

        Hickocks videos are entertaining.  World's best granddad.

        There’s always free cheddar in a mousetrap, baby

        by bernardpliers on Mon May 06, 2013 at 10:44:26 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Ah, back when gangs had to make their own guns. (4+ / 0-)
      The essential part of any improvised firearm is the barrel and chamber. For small, low pressure cartridges, like the common .22 caliber (5.5 mm) rimfire cartridges, even very thin walled tubing will suffice. Author Harlan Ellison describes the zip guns used by gangs in 1950s New York City as being made from tubing used in coffee percolators or automobile radio antennas, strapped to a block of wood to serve as a handle. A rubber band provides the power for the firing pin, which is pulled back and released to fire. The use of such weak tubing results in a firearm that can be as dangerous to the shooter as the target; the poorly fitting smoothbore barrel provides little accuracy and is liable to burst upon firing.[1]
      http://en.wikipedia.org/...

      "Michael Moore, who was filming a movie about corporate welfare called 'Capitalism: A Love Story,' sought and received incentives."

      by Bush Bites on Mon May 06, 2013 at 10:25:06 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Waiting for the 3D printing of an A bomb (0+ / 0-)

    Because.... freedom!

  •  The 3D printer story is very old news. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JeffW, annieli, Eric Nelson

    Yippy-skippy I can build a 3D printer and print weapons parts out of plastic. The reality is that even with the Maker movement trying to drive the price down as far as possible, the printers are still $2k a pop. People have been able to build CNC rigs for about the same price for a couple of years that you could make a full automatic M-60 machine gun receivers with. The rest of the parts are easy to get, with no records kept.

    Workers of the world, unite! You have nothing to lose but your shackles. It is by the picket line and direct action that true freedom will be won, not by electing people who promise to screw us less than the other guy.

    by rhonan on Mon May 06, 2013 at 10:46:01 PM PDT

  •  A Scottish sc-fi author, Charles Stross, (0+ / 0-)

    writes about a future when "fabbers" occupy an underground niche that make a wide assortment of illegal items.

    Rule 34 is his latest.

    "The human eye is a wonderful device. With a little effort, it can fail to see even the most glaring injustice." Richard K. Morgan

    by sceptical observer on Mon May 06, 2013 at 10:48:19 PM PDT

  •  All that's on my mind now: women escaping captor (8+ / 0-)

    The news story I'm desperate to hear more about is the escape of the three young women from captivity in Cleveland.

    Amanda Berry, Gina DeJesus, Michelle Knight

    Amanda had a six-year-old with her when she got out.

    They were all taken to hospital and okay.

    Ten years being held captive.

    At least one child; some reports say more than one child was in the house.

    Good for Amanda and the others discovering some means of getting to a door to the outside, then attracting attention of someone to help them break out.

    •  You have to wonder how many people... (10+ / 0-)

      ...are held like this and never escape, who disappear forever, remain captive for years and then get dumped at some point in a backyard grave. Glad these four did whatever they had to do to get free.

      Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

      by Meteor Blades on Mon May 06, 2013 at 11:32:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well, if we are talking about women & children (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        True North

        Possibly more than a million, globally. Or millions.
        Depends how we define "prisoner".

        Sadly.

        {Not a sigline. You are hallucinating.}

        by koNko on Tue May 07, 2013 at 05:06:22 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I share that fear (0+ / 0-)

        These men abducted first one woman, and then a girl, and then another girl, apparently with the plan of imprisoning them indefinitely. But what did they think would happen if one of them fell ill or was injured: just let the woman die? And if there was a sick or injured child, let the child die? No medical care?  

        In the case in Austria, the 19-year-old woman who fell ill was the daughter (and granddaughter) of Josef F., who imprisoned her, her mother, and two other siblings. Josef F. dropped her at a hospital. Her life was saved--but that life of imprisonment was exposed.

        That photo of Amanda Berry with her sister and (I assume) her daughter in the hospital after her escape was just stunning. She looked radiant. I am so glad they all escaped.

        And so glad that those three men will never again harm anyone.

  •  Netroots scholarship (0+ / 0-)

    Please read my recent diary, Netroots and Star Trek:

    http://www.dailykos.com/...

    and vote for Sree for one of the scholarships:

    http://nn13.democracyforamerica.com/...

    Shop Liberally this holiday season at Kos Katalog

    by JamieG from Md on Mon May 06, 2013 at 11:57:50 PM PDT

  •  So Cody thinks he's got some political juice here? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Caipirinha

    So..

    [Says Wilson:] "But what this project's really about, fuck your laws, you know what I'm saying? It's stepping up, it's being able to go, you know what, I don't like this legal regime I neatly step outside of it. Now what, you know?" […]
    ..to prove that he "don't need no stinkin govt." -  and plastc guns prove that? - lol

    I'd bet that there is not one gun owner out there that would trade his/her high carbon steel rifle, well blued to a sheen for one of those POS plastic guns.
    Not one.

    Even getting around former Pres. Reagans ban on non-detetable guns with a chuck of metal embedded proves nothing but more anarchist bloviating making a show

    If anything these non-detectable plastic guns are more a tool of a terrorist - highjacking a plane.  

    What a waste of technology. Being an inventor of sorts, this 3-D tech seems like it could be very useful for the do-it-your-self inventor who normally wouldn't have the $ to develop a prototype. And as is too common, another corporation would buy the idea for peanuts and ... all the rest

    •  Lovely quote, yes (0+ / 0-)

      One wonders how he'd feel about being shot in the head from behind a couple times? I mean, "fuck your laws, I don't like this legal regime that keeps me from killing dangerous nutbars like you?"

      It is, after all, absolutely the logical result of his manner of thought.

  •  Does Cody really think his little plastic gun (0+ / 0-)

    is enough to protect him from some of the more radical "fuck the law" anarchists friends of his?  Or as a lawyer do you think he'll try to get the law to protect him if he's threatened by his soul mates?      

  •  too much purple. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Eric Nelson

    not enough green.

    but, glory be, whatta night !!

    Charles Ramsey: MAN of the YEAR.

    There is no Article II power which says the Executive can violate the Constitution.--@Hugh * Addington's Perpwalk: TRAILHEAD of Accountability for Bush-2 Crimes.

    by greenbird on Tue May 07, 2013 at 12:43:42 AM PDT

  •  I was wondering when this would finally show up (0+ / 0-)

    on the DK front-page.

    Not surprised it's MB putting it here, the guy who doesn't back away from inconvenient truths.

    LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

    by dinotrac on Tue May 07, 2013 at 02:42:49 AM PDT

    •  i just wish (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Bush Bites

      that most of the gun-nutters were on an intellectual level of Cody Wilson, then we could have a legitimate philosophical discussion on things that doesn't involve repetition of memes and non-sequiturs.

      Deficits don't matter, jobs do.

      by aguadito on Tue May 07, 2013 at 02:48:15 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  "Gun-nutters" won't, by definition. (0+ / 0-)

        You notice Wilson because the technology angle takes you out of your comfort zone and forces you to look at him differently.

        I wonder how many of those "gun-nutters" really fit your stereotype?

        NRA leaders for sure, but that's to be expected. They run a PR campaign and PR campaigns are about bumper sticker statements and repetition.

        As to the rest?

        I would bet that  a few of them could teach Wilson a thing or two.

        LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

        by dinotrac on Tue May 07, 2013 at 03:19:45 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  i've debated... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Bush Bites

          ...countless gun-nutters.

          Not a single one has a coherent philosophical basis for ideas such as "no universal background checks" or limitations on ownership of high-powered weapons (fully auto, etc).

          so yes, basically all the gun-nutters are Neanderthals that can't back their views up with any relevant discussion in history or philosophy. this is a generalization but an incredibly fair one.

          Deficits don't matter, jobs do.

          by aguadito on Tue May 07, 2013 at 04:22:06 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  27 arrested at NAACP protest at NC legislature (0+ / 0-)
    RALEIGH — Twenty-seven people protesting laws they said hurt children and poor people were arrested at the Legislative Building on Monday night in front of a crowd of supporters.
    This is the second protest in as many weeks organized by the state NAACP that resulted in arrests. More than 100 people filled the rotunda on the second floor of the Legislative Building to sing and pray. People blocking the gold doors to the Senate chamber were arrested, their hands bound by plastic ties, after they did not disburse when ordered by General Assembly Police Chief Jeff Weaver.

    Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/...

    17 NAACP protesters were arrested a protest at NC legislature last Monday.
  •  Aspects of a 3DP fighting force (0+ / 0-)

    1. Emphasis on portability and provision in the field, to the extent possible. Printers will be man-portable and geared to use locally available materials.
    2. Making that happen will require a means to refine and sort said raw materials directly from the environment. Nanotech to disassemble and concentrate needful feedstocks for a given purpose. That's a bottleneck
    3. Dependency on long supply lines for 3D printer resin and uniform-grained powdered plastic is probably not a viable basis for an insurgency OR sustained orthodox operations enabled with 3D print tech
    4. Oh - and this gag will take high energy densities - think really, really good batteries or fuel cells - that aren't quite mass producible at this time. Or very long extension cables.
    5. More likely, a standard weapon skeleton will be manufactured, with modules supportable by field printing.
    6. The field printers will be used to replace magazines, personal armor modules and most importantly, ammo.
    7. Not sure if anyone's cracked the nut yet of how to use a 3D printer to refine gunpowder, smokeless or otherwise. Contact with heated elements, which abound in printers, could lead to a catastrophic oops event, but let's assume that gets sorted eventually
    8. Printed metamaterials - substances who physical configurations at the molecular level lead to unusual physical properties like, say, negative refractive indexes (like bends 'backward', thus the moniker 'invisibility cloak') may in time lead to breakthroughs such as new combustibles or superconductive resins that support magnetic-accelerated rounds. Thinking out of the box there but it is the future of which we speak.
    9. So now we have battalions in the field that can print replacement parts, invisibility cloaks, personal armor and even new boots and toilet paper on the fly - very important items, those last. Oh - and ammo. They just need pauses in the combat conversation long enough to resupply.
    10. Heck, with bioprinters they'll even be able to print up food so long as sufficient moisture can be gleaned from the soil, water and air.
    11. And if biologicals can be safely and reliably printed, that means medical supplies, including replacement body parts, could be handled by special field surgery printers.

    Which brings me full circle to the question of what type of political regime would such a technology, worked out to its mature level, support?

    Many of the pieces required to make all of the above work adequately would not require much more than the first complete kit. Start with that, go found your own small industrialized prepper-country. Libertaria. Woo.

    That is, it would adequately, until some key component in the short, durable field printer supply chain broke. If I were to think of the weakest link, it would be the fuel cells or batteries, or special parts in the 3D printers themselves that the printers cannot manufacture themselves.

    That problem could be solved by substitute materials or accepting a loss of precision so that, like a lathe, the printer could build all the parts to make a copy of itself. and that might well be done in practice someday.

    However, a loss of functionality would result. The printers might be secured from the need to go to town and buy special parts but they'd make less of a range of things, less well, and more slowly. That would limit the 'sovereignty' side of such devices.

    And then there would be the vulnerability of such devices to hacking or infecting with bad operating systems. Think: centrifuges. Sure, one could go off-grid, but that particular printer or set of them would be stuck using what would fast become a limited set of vintage templates. More limitations on functionality, more limits on that independence thing.

    Ultimately, as delightful as this tech strikes the aspiring anarchist, 3D printing ultimately favors larger and more closely integrated societies'  defense objectives than those of small groups with limited esteem for things like laws.

    Though the tactical aspects of a 3DP combat scenario superficially lean toward assymetric warfare - and rest assured, it will do that - in the long run 1000 coordinated teams using top-of-shelf kit can defeat 100 disconnected ones using yesterday's sci-fi.

    And I think this is roughly how all the to-do about 3D's game changing implications will play out.

    •  Check out the longer... (0+ / 0-)

      Article (and accompanying 24 minute documentary) on Vice.com. A better overview.

      The kid does come across as a lot more sane than a tinfoil hatter though his appearances on Alex Jones' Infowars do a lot to discredit that.

      What we're seeing here, and I think he'd agree with, is just a microscopic taste of what a technological singularity is. What's being constructed now is very crude but the path forward is already set.

      Laws and social mores begin to break down in the face of ever expanding technology. New problems that were never seriously considered arise quickly. For example, Sam Harris, Hitchens, et al., have long rued the day when a religious extremist could manufacture a nuclear device with household ingredients. The day is coming.

      I do agree with your main points but 20, 30, 40 years from now the power that an individual has will make our current fears/hopes seem quaint. "Remember when we could only construct part of a gun at home?"

      And it isn't just guns... this is going to change every aspect of life, violent and beneficial.

      •  Bear in mind... (0+ / 0-)
        And it isn't just guns... this is going to change every aspect of life, violent and beneficial.
        Only for the wealthy. As is always the case.

        The poor will continue as usual, either lacking computers at all or lacking the knowhow to even use the computers, let alone a 3d printer. The middle class will get a little benefit out of it but will be kept too busy with 60 to 80 hour work weeks to do much exploitation of the technology, even should it become economical to do so. And in any case, as food and housing prices (and, of course, medical costs) rise over the next 20 to 40 years to be more or less 100% of a poor or middle class person's budget, the things that can be manufactured at home will become less and less of an issue anyway.

  •  I've thought about this all day and I think I'm in (0+ / 0-)

    favor of the 3d gun idea.  I'm surprised by that as well.

    Why?

    Because I'm sick and tired of the entire culture of constant surveillance.  If this thing catches on, maybe they won't bother with the fucking metal detectors anymore.  We've turned into a country of anal cavity inspections.  So my hat's off to the guy who invented this.  I see the point.

    This is a minority opinion, I know, but it's how I feel about this.

    •  More guns prompt more surveillance. (0+ / 0-)

      Vicious cycle, that.

      {Not a sigline. You are hallucinating.}

      by koNko on Tue May 07, 2013 at 05:07:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  You must be kidding (0+ / 0-)

      If they have plastic guns that are not able to be detected by x-rays, then we will have more intrusive searches that can detect them.

      The government is terrified, and also desperately wants the American people to be terrified. That's not going to stop because things get MORE dangerous for everybody.

      •  Actually, I read the statement by the (0+ / 0-)

        designer, and although I don't sympathize with the adolescent anarchist tone of it, I acknowledge the principle that it's a statement: "All your intrusions into our life on the excuse of security are quickly made obsolete by ironically trivial means."

        In some ways (and you can dispute this, but it's just my parallel to explain my viewpoint, not an argument I want to flesh out and dfend) this is like our saying that building fences to keep out illegals is a waste of money because somebody will always build a bigger and cheaper ladder.  "But without a wall, a terrorist could just waltz into the country!"  Yup, so?

        So now they will have to do more and more intrusive inspections to make sure we're not all carrying plastic guns?  Fine.  Fuck 'em.  

        While they're at it, they might want to worry about asshole bombs.  Along similar lines, I've long thought if a terrorist group wanted to send a blood-curdling message to the US, they'd shove a bomb up their asshole or coochie before boarding a flight.  "Oh no, we have asshole bombers!  Stop checking people's shoes and start checking out people's assholes!"  Right.  Get the asshole-bomb-sniffing dogs on that right away.  "The dog is sniffing that woman's snatch.  Grab her!"

        You might say, "Don't give the terrorists such scary ideas," but I kind of wish they would do it (having figured this out themselves, not because of a post of mine).  Thus making Homeland Security escalate the inspections to the point of absurdity or else admit that they're just spying on us because they can.

  •  I have no interest in guns (0+ / 0-)

    but one comment in this thread really jumped out at me and that was the comment about printing your own solar panels.

    Imagine a large number of people going out and getting a printer, printing up their own solar panels and installing them on their houses and having the demand for electricity drop by a significant magnitude overnight.

    Great for society and the environment, bad for profit making utilities, coal mine owners, etc. And given our pathetic history of private interests constantly winning over public interest in every instance as far as our lawmakers are concerned, I'm sure they are working right now on preventing this from happening.

    “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR

    by Phoebe Loosinhouse on Tue May 07, 2013 at 05:28:47 AM PDT

  •  Can they print 3D child pornography, too? (nt) (0+ / 0-)
    •  that's actually a good point. once they can print (0+ / 0-)

      soft silicone rubber, the porn industry will be all over it, and half the country will be printing out their own sex toys. Porn, of course, always ends up being the prime technological adopter and popularizer.

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