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This idea of responding to a bad law by dropping a fucking atomic bomb on the whole fucking state of Florida is the single stupidest boycott suggestion I have ever heard.

You guys advocating this need to put your emotions in check for a few weeks and come back and discuss this soberly.

There are a lot of innocent people and families there living on the edge already.  Don't shove them off the frying pan into the fire.

I'm not here to spoon-feed all the other things that could be done.  You're intelligent.  Fucking find one.  This ain't it.

6:33 PM PT: Thanks for many very good comments and constructive criticism.  I probably should have put more in the diary but reading my comments would hopefully fill in some blanks.

7:26 PM PT: Hey - I've got some great perspectives from y'all.  I've got to turn in soon...later.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Avila, lunachickie

    Warren/3-D Print of Warren in 2016!

    by dov12348 on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 05:22:54 PM PDT

  •  I've boycotted FL (28+ / 0-)

    for multiple other reasons including and formerly foremost -- shitty respect for the environment.  My only two times down there involved assholes (except in the Keys for 2 days with my lesbian friends in the '70s) and assholes everywhere else except the retired docents at the Salvadore Dali Museum.

    The State isn't worth anyone's money right now.  Folks should try Connecticut where we have everything for everybody -- Colt firearms and railroad museums and steam trains and Timex museum and shoreline and lobster and asshole rich people and great not rich people in my neighborhood.

    We have the oppressive heat and humidity now -- why would I want to go to a hate state?  There are plenty of folks living on the edge in every single state in this country, including mine.

    " My faith in the Constitution is whole; it is complete; it is total." Barbara Jordan, 1974

    by gchaucer2 on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 05:33:08 PM PDT

    •  This sounds awesome! (7+ / 0-)
      Salvadore Dali Museum
      Too bad I'll be seeing it online.
    •  I like this... (23+ / 0-)
      There are plenty of folks living on the edge in every single state in this country, including mine.
      If Stevie Wonder can boycott the state I think I can too.

      Tracy B Ann - technically that is my signature. If I had Bill Gates money, I'd buy Detroit.

      by ZenTrainer on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 05:39:51 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It's not a hate state. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Avila, Neuroptimalian

      What does that mean anyway?

      Warren/3-D Print of Warren in 2016!

      by dov12348 on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 05:58:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I love Florida and I'll be back soon (5+ / 0-)

        Boycotts of Florida will hurt the low wage employees working in leisure, travel and food service. They did nothing to deserve losing their jobs.  

        "let's talk about that"

        by VClib on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 06:10:55 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  we aren't all like that (4+ / 0-)

        it's worth remembering that Sanford has always been a sundown town . . . . but Miami and other urban areas are completely different.  night and day different. ;)

        •  Thank you (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Avila

          and thanks for this diary. I'm the first one to agree with the notion of "boycotts", but goddamn, people. The diarist isn't kidding when he/she says this:

          There are a lot of innocent people and families there living on the edge already.  Don't shove them off the frying pan into the fire.
          TRUTH. This state is little more than tourism. This is how we live. This is how we feed our families.

          Not only that, in order for an actual tourist boycott to work, you first have to assume that someone, at some point, with the power to change the SYG laws, will have to grow a conscience and do so. That. Ain't. Gonna. Happen. In. Rick. Scott's. Florida.

          EVER.

          Now, having said that, I probably would have found a bit better way to say this:

          I'm not here to spoon-feed all the other things that could be done.  You're intelligent.  Fucking find one.  This ain't it.
          but that in no way negates the fact that it's correct for those of us who live here. This ain't it, people. It. Ain't. It.

          Those of us who have fought like hell in this state for our lives--so many of us--to try to change the horrid shit government that has been stinking up Tallahassee for far too long need are barely hanging on, because we all depend on tourist dollars in some way here. Find another way without fucking us all over, or you will never keep this state anything remotely resembling BLUE. And it's big enough to matter.

          This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

          by lunachickie on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 06:54:19 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  if florida depends on tourism that much (7+ / 0-)

            a targeted boycott demanding the end to stand your ground laws and attacks on voting rights would have a fair amount of leverage, would it not?

            •  A TARGETED boycott might (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Avila

              fly, carefully applied, might work. But what's been discussed here today is anything but.

              And frankly, again, what it would boil down to at the end of the day is that "Lawmakers in Florida Have No Conscience". And they're not gonna grow one long enough to do the right thing. They already GOT theirs, so a boycott won't faze them. In fact, they probably salivate at the very idea, because it hurts the 99%. They're sociopaths. They don't give a damn.

              If we're going to stop shit like this, why don't we direct our energies and all our indignations at ALEC?

              This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

              by lunachickie on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 08:11:40 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  because legislation at the state level matters (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Avila, worldlotus, gramofsam1

                and because boycotts are most effective when localized and concentrated, so the effect is felt and connected with the problem.

                it's not like civil rights-related state boycotts are some radical new thing. squeeze powerful businesses or industries who aren't ideologically committed to the legislation in question, and you'd be surprised how quickly things can turn around.

                •  Oh, I get that (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Avila

                  and again, I'd be first in line if I thought it would move the sociopaths that are running us into the ground in any way. But those people do not give a damn. How can I make that any clearer?

                  Even beyond that, again, the type of boycott we're talking about here isn't "localized and concentrated", at least not to damn near every commenter in these two diaries (FFS, we're a FOREIGN COUNTRY NOW, have you heard?????) ALEC is a nationwide problem and Florida is not the only affected state. But it is also a State and Local problem. It's huge! It's bigger than One State.

                  Explain--define, please--what you consider to be "localized and concentrated" as a boycott. Simply "Not Setting Foot in Florida Ever Again" seems rather broad to me...

                  Meanwhile, ALEC IS the root of this particular law, if I've been reading all the info on SYG correctly in the last year or so. The people of Florida did not invite ALEC into our government. The people Floridians voted for were corrupted by ALEC (and others) once they took office in Tallahassee.

                  Not. My. Fault. Not yours. Not the 99% in this state that's hanging on by a damned economic thread.

                  And BTW, Florida isn't the only state that can say that either. So how many boycotts do you have the ability to keep up with?

                  This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

                  by lunachickie on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 09:46:24 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  They still have to be re-elected (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    BettytheBoop

                    I agree that a non-targeted, generic boycott might not be effective. I haven't been back to Arizona since they passed their offensive laws, and was pretty active in letting their powers that be know why I wasn't coming back, until...

                    Those officials who were "corrupted" by ALEC post-election have to face re-election. If keeping corrupted officials at the trough while allowing them to wipe mud off their shoes with the Constitution is what Floridians want, more power to them.  But there isn't just one election in a politician's career. Ask Dick Lugar about his last election.

                    And without engaging the voting public of Florida in a real battle at the polls to elect new, uncorrupted pols, any money I spend in Florida will do exactly what it does right now- feed the rich.  My tourist dollars aren't going to go to feed the poor, build decent schools, create employment programs.

                    My tourist dollars will just give the corrupted politicians more money to feed their agenda, and at best, maybe create another new entry-level, sub-minimum wage job or two for people living on the edge.

                    I don't want to inflict more pain on a besieged electorate. But I also don't want to subsidize the corrupt politicians who have their own agenda, and will continue to stuff their pockets and destroy lives as long as people don't show up at the polls to add these thieves and ideologues to the rolls of the employed. I know these thugs are doing everything possible to prevent those voters from ever casting a ballot- but voting will be the first step towards casting off the chains.

                    So I won't spend tourist dollars in Florida. But rest assured, I will donate to voter registration programs, to local food banks, to innovative advocacy groups who make a difference in that state.

                    I haven't forgotten Florida- I just want to make sure that any money I spend on it (beyond those tax dollars Florida siphons off the feds) goes directly to helping the people who need it the most, and not the corporations and politicians who are hurting people.

                    "When you're skating on thin ice, you might as well dance." Jesse Winchester

                    by The Poet Deploreate on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 03:31:15 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

          •  So change it. (3+ / 0-)
            That. Ain't. Gonna. Happen. In. Rick. Scott's. Florida.
            If the state boycotts from the Stand Your Ground laws result in substantial economic loss for the state, then it won't be Rick Scott's Florida much longer.

            "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

            by JamesGG on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 08:08:44 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  If I felt like (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Avila, The Poet Deploreate

              we could afford that kind of time, in the state this state is in, with GOP majorities in both the House and Senate and their gerrymandering shenanigans, at this point in time, I'd be agreeing with you whole-heartedly. But right now, I'm just depressed, reading this boycott stuff.

              Florida really is, in places, seriously "on the edge", economically for so many, more so than states that may have (what remains of) any other core economic engine besides tourism. Tourism is "discretionary income" anyway, and the 99%'s pockets doesn't have much of that these days (and don't even get me started about "conventions". I often think that's a scarier bottom line to have hosed in the name of "boycotts", than family vacationers). So we've all already taken several hits during this depression already. Not to mention that nasty business in the Gulf of Mexico. That hurt.

              Tourism is all a lot of people have here. And it doesn't pay for shit to begin with.

              For the record, I don't think it's going to BE Rick Scott's Florida much longer. At least I sure hope not. I've worked my ass off here over numerous election cycles, trying to squelch the Red. People here are trying to fix this mess.  The challenges that exist aren't there for a lack of trying to fix them on anyone's part.

              And of course, ever so helpful is the persistent rumor that, well, we just don't know how to count our votes down here. So who knows WTF will happen in the next election?
               

              This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

              by lunachickie on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 08:42:39 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  gee, that helps (12+ / 0-)
    This idea of responding to a bad law by dropping a fucking atomic bomb on the whole fucking state of Florida is the single stupidest boycott suggestion I have ever heard.
    well, it's also the stupidest diary I've ever read.

    This Rover crossed over.. Willie Nelson, written by Dorothy Fields

    by Karl Rover on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 05:37:53 PM PDT

  •  You do realize that's exactly what happened to AZ, (27+ / 0-)

    right?  A ton of folks boycotted it in protest of a bad law.  

    And, btw, there are a ton of innocent people living on the edge all over the country.  Money not spent in Florida will be spent somewhere else, and wherever that is, folks there probably could use it as badly as folks in Florida...

    •  I would try something more focused. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lunachickie

      Warren/3-D Print of Warren in 2016!

      by dov12348 on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 06:01:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  No you wouldn't (7+ / 0-)

        You would write a dumbass diary on Dkos, tell people they are stupid, and then forget all about it.

        Otherwise you would have put forth an actual idea.

        People need to do whatever they can to fight back against the madness that is pervading our society these days.

        Until shit turns around poor people...and I am one of them...are going to suffer no matter what.

        We should at least go down fighting. And hell, one day we might even win.

        But if you never fight back you never win.

        Right?

      •  Florida is a dump (0+ / 0-)

           Why would anyone want to go there anyway?

             There are no mountains. The beaches have no waves. You could get eaten by Burmese Pythons or crocodiles. The "Florida Sunshine Tree" produces second-rate huanglongbing infested citrus fruits that are nowhere near as good as the stuff we grow in our backyard (in the second largest city in the U.S.A).  

              It has to be embarrassing to live in a state that looks like a phallic symbol. (Look at a map: that bulge on the panhandle is the scrotum.)  There are better places to visit if you have a choice. California welcomes you and you can even go to Disneyland if that's your thing. The original Disney park is in the real Orange County. California has mountains, deserts, cities and historic sites, wine grape and marijuana growing regions, and almost every other kind of agricultural products.

               More to the point is that CA can run elections, unlike Florida, and whenever we have high profile trials with miscarriages of justice at least we have real juries with twelve members. Florida is too goddamn cheap to have a real jury on an important trial. Six jurors on a murder trial? What a sad joke...

              I haven't been to FL since the stolen election of 2000 and doubt I would ever go back to that hellhole.

              Is that focused enough?

           

        Diehard Swingnut, disgruntled Democrat, age 54, new CA-30

        by Zack from the SFV on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 11:43:58 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Sorry, Too Late (18+ / 0-)

    I zapped Florida when they passed their Constitutional amendment to ban marriage equality.  Sixty percent of Floridians agreed.  The other forty percent simply have to deal with the fallout, and I'm not motivated to inquire of each and every fruit juice company.

    Not when there are so many other viable options, like California as of a few weeks ago.

    In this case, I'm just adding the whole Martin mess to the Reasons Why I Won't Do Business With Florida.

    (-6.38, -7.03) Moderate left, moderate libertarian

    by Lonely Liberal in PA on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 05:41:31 PM PDT

    •  The fisher families as well. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Lonely Liberal in PA

      Who were already devastated by the oil thing.  

      If you have a lot of reasons, though, you have a stronger position to forget about the state.  

      But how do the good people there ever get the message?  They just know they're unemployed now.

      Warren/3-D Print of Warren in 2016!

      by dov12348 on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 06:14:58 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Sucks to be them (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        roycej, worldlotus, Zack from the SFV

        But as long as those dollars go to them, they pay their state taxes, and those dollars get used to enforce crap...don't expect me to send them those dollars.

        Hey, I even have a boycott going of my own home state.  Where I can, I take my business to an actual blue state.

        (-6.38, -7.03) Moderate left, moderate libertarian

        by Lonely Liberal in PA on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 06:47:45 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yeah, it sucks to be me...thanks! (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Vetwife, Free Jazz at High Noon

          Sorry. It's just that it's got to be so much easier to say when it's not your livelihood on the line.

          I don't say this stuff to guilt anyone, in case anybody was wondering. It's our reality. We're a couple of fifty-somethings who both fully-depend on tourism to make a living. Other employers--not that there are many 'types' outside any kind of 'service' industry here--aren't exactly beating our doors down as it is.

          Take that as fact. That's what it is. Rick Scott and his merry band of assholes don't give a damn about boycotts. It's not going to make them grow a conscience and change the fucking laws.

          This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

          by lunachickie on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 07:00:21 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yep, sucks to be you (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            worldlotus, Zack from the SFV

            Why would I increase your income to pay more in state taxes?  It's just more for Rick Scott to steal, and more money to use to enforce lousy laws.

            One of which is an amendment to your supposed "constitution" that bans me from the same rights a straight couple gets.  You know, a tiny little violation of that equal access under the law thingy.

            It's roughly the same reason I use as little gas as possible, and don't buy items from China, Russia, and other nations whose actions I don't like.  Which means I don't buy much, but that's fine by me.

            In this case, I consider Florida a hostile nation, much as I consider Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, and so on.  Until it is no longer hostile, my money doesn't cross the border.  I'll keep it in blue states.

            Regrettably, some of that money flows to Florida anyway via the Feds, but there's nothing I can do about that.  Yet.

            (-6.38, -7.03) Moderate left, moderate libertarian

            by Lonely Liberal in PA on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 07:09:24 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Wow (0+ / 0-)

              just...wow. You're blaming millions of people for the crimes of a few.

               Thanks for the sympathy, Blue Colleague, but we don't pay a state income tax here. They get it out of us at every turn, every time we consume.

              And can you tone down the righteous indignation in my general direction? I get WHY, for cryin' out loud.  I'm just trying to appeal to the common sense I thought a lot more of you had. I've done everything but jump off a cliff to try to get shit changed in this godforsaken state.  Why the HELL are you gonna condemn me as some kind of "foreigner"? WTF kind of Democrat says that kind of shit to another Democrat, if not during a mis-directed rage?

              I'm going to say it one more time: Rick Scott and his merry band of assholes don't give a damn about boycotts. It's not going to make them grow a conscience and change the fucking laws here.

              Maybe I should have added "Especially not when to do so would benefit the rest of us who have to live here.".  

              And don't tell me to move. I don't have that kind of money, either.

              smh...

              This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

              by lunachickie on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 07:32:54 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Not One Cent (0+ / 0-)

                Thanks for the attitude.  

                I'd typed up more but forget it.  The wallet stays closed.

                (-6.38, -7.03) Moderate left, moderate libertarian

                by Lonely Liberal in PA on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 07:56:28 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I hope it makes YOU feel better (0+ / 0-)

                  because as someone who has no other means of support, it doesn't do a damn thing for me.

                  This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

                  by lunachickie on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 08:04:22 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  It does (0+ / 0-)

                    That sales tax you'd use the money to pay, the 5.5% corporate income tax you neglected to mention regarding income taxes...yes, not pouring money into Florida's coffers makes me feel much better.

                    I'm not paying for your "prosecutors."  I'm not paying for your "justice."  I'm not paying for your "marriage license" processing.  I'm not paying your governor's salary or for your state "representatives'."  I'm not paying for your godawful excuse for environmentalism.  I'm not paying to execute prisoners.

                    That makes me feel very good.  Whether your governor cares is immaterial.  It's whether the citizens of Florida, pressured by forces inside and out, make a change.  Without pressure, it's obvious there won't be a change.

                    (-6.38, -7.03) Moderate left, moderate libertarian

                    by Lonely Liberal in PA on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 08:21:46 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  You really buy into the (0+ / 0-)

                      "voter bashing", don't you? You really think everyone in Florida is a political idiot.

                      Please. Your purity is blinding me. Thanks for the tea and sympathy....

                      This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

                      by lunachickie on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 08:46:01 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Don't generalize (0+ / 0-)

                        It's merely that I think that 50%+1 of your voters at minimum were idiots in the voting booth at that time.  The remaining 50%-1 at maximum, no.

                        I don't try to read minds and determine if they're lifelong R voters, were taken in by false advertising, or simply thought they could have a beer with Governor Snake Lips.

                        If you're trying to get me to do business in Florida, it's failing.  You were already struck out at the marriage equality thing, wherein sixty percent of your voters thought it was a good idea.  

                        (-6.38, -7.03) Moderate left, moderate libertarian

                        by Lonely Liberal in PA on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 09:15:51 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                •  I can out-purity you (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  lunachickie

                  You are in PA. I am in NY. NY is much better than PA because of things like Tom Corbett and fracking and gay marriage. So I am never going to spend a dime in Pennsylvania or on Pennsylvania products until your government is as good or better than New York's. (Not sure what I'll do about my love of pretzels and Yuengling, but that's a sacrifice I'll have to make.)

                  Pennsylvania a blue state. Don't make me laugh. The wallet stays closed.

                  •  Please feel free (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Zack from the SFV

                    I do, and give most of my business to actual blue states, except where inescapable.

                    On the up side, you gotta admit that Pennsylvania sucks a lot less than Florida--at least we're certainly going to vote out Corbett.

                    (-6.38, -7.03) Moderate left, moderate libertarian

                    by Lonely Liberal in PA on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 08:23:47 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Get back to me on that (0+ / 0-)

                      when you can buy a six-pack at the Kroger and that abominable LCB is in the dustbin of history  ;)

                      This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

                      by lunachickie on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 08:44:11 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I actually like the State system (3+ / 0-)

                        It makes a lot of money for PA, keeping other taxes down.  Whilst not costing those of us who don't drink (as I don't) a single cent.

                        Like the lottery, I consider it a tax on those who choose to use it, and nobody's forced to.

                        And in centralizing liquor sales it tends to keep prices fairly low due to quantity purchasing Statewide, corruption at a moderate level, the mob in the statehouse where they would be anyway, and most of us reasonably happy most of the time.

                        (-6.38, -7.03) Moderate left, moderate libertarian

                        by Lonely Liberal in PA on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 08:47:37 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  You may be (0+ / 0-)

                          the first Pennsylvanian I've ever encountered that did. I grew up near Pittsburgh--the acronym for the Liquor Control Board was most often used as a four-letter word in our world...  

                          This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

                          by lunachickie on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 08:54:18 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Some as yes. (0+ / 0-)

                            Some as no.  My parents didn't dislike it.  Some people actually travel here for the selections--our wine selection is second to none, and includes smaller and more offbeat wineries as well in locales that feature them.

                            Underage buyers hate it as it requires more hoop-jumping to buy than it does in many states.  I consider that a feature, not a bug, although it's certainly very imperfect in practice.

                            (-6.38, -7.03) Moderate left, moderate libertarian

                            by Lonely Liberal in PA on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 09:11:00 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

              •  Rick Scott and his Republican buddies.... (4+ / 0-)

                ...are elected officials.

                Meaning that if they won't grow a conscience and change the laws, it is your job, and the job of all Floridians of conscience, to replace them with people who will.

                Don't pretend like Rick Scott is an unelected dictator; he isn't. A plurality of Floridians put a mark on a piece of paper or a voting machine that said "we want Rick Scott in power." He is only governor of your state because your state's people elected him governor.

                If the Republicans don't have a conscience about this, replace them with people who do.

                "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

                by JamesGG on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 08:16:22 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I'm betting... (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  BettytheBoop

                  that while a plurality of voters put that Constitutional expert Scott (no one knows the 5th Amendment better than him) into office- or as we pundits like to say, freely chose the wolf as our new henhouse security guard- i'm betting that it wasn't a plurality of registered voters who did it.

                  in the last presidential election, registered democrats outnumbered registered republicans in Florida by 500,000. In 2012, around 55% of the voting age population turned out to vote, putting Florida in roughly the bottom 20% of the nation in voter turn-out.

                  I know the bastards are doing everything they can to discourage voting, and that they have a hard time even counting the votes you do cast; but there is a very rough approximation to be made between blue-ish-ness and voter turnout.  

                  In the long run, it seems to me to that money spent on promoting progressive voter registration organizations is a good  investment in change in Florida. I know that sounds callous, when it's tourist dollars that put food on the table, and I'm sorry about that. But soaking the tourists and consumers for the revenue to run a corrupt machine, and letting the top 1% get away with paying no income taxes is not a recipe for social change and equity.  

                  "When you're skating on thin ice, you might as well dance." Jesse Winchester

                  by The Poet Deploreate on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 03:56:30 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

  •  this is a Republican style argument (14+ / 0-)

    the first time I heard something like it was when a tax was proposed on yachts costing over $100,000. A big cry went up that that would punish the poor workers who built the yachts.

    The circumstances here are different but it's the same argument. If you hurt business you hurt the little people.

    In the end you don't do anything, the "little people" are no better off and those who should be targeted keep laughing.

    Dear NSA: I am only joking.

    by Shahryar on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 05:46:57 PM PDT

    •  Who cares whose "style" it is? (0+ / 0-)

      Is it sensible or not?

      Warren/3-D Print of Warren in 2016!

      by dov12348 on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 06:02:34 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Shahryar - they were right (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      worldlotus

      At one time we actually had a 10% federal luxury tax on yachts. Yachts are hand made by expert craftsman. It totally tanked the new yacht industry putting those craftsman out of work until Congress realized how dumb an idea it was, repealed the luxury tax on yachts, and allowed the craftsman to go back to work.

      "let's talk about that"

      by VClib on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 06:15:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Now We Know . . . the Rest of the Story . . . (6+ / 0-)

        The actual story is different, however.

        The luxury tax became law in late 1990.  Just in time for the Bush Recession.  Business activity of all kinds suffered in the early 90's, not just the yacht business.

        I would attribute the overall problem to the familiar business cycle.

        Eventually, the luxury tax was rescinded.  However the yacht industry never recovered to the size it had been prior to the recession (that early 90's recovery was considered fairly slow at the time).  The problem was that this growth industry simply expanded beyond the market's ability to absorb the product.  Capitalism can be like that.

        So, aside from the neglecting the effect of the recession, and the addition of the sunny ending that never happened, the story is fine.

  •  doesn't matter (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Free Jazz at High Noon, dov12348

    As someone living in FL, there is pretty much no effect whatsoever from these so called boycotts. Those who boycott stuff are usually the ones who wouldn't have purchased a product or gone to the place to begin with. The effects are usually minor to none.

  •  Sorry...free market dictates this reality... (8+ / 0-)

    ...and if enough people want to spend their money elsewhere, for whatever reason they decide, nothing can (or should) stop that.

    Adequate health care should be a LEGAL RIGHT in the U.S without begging or bankruptcy. Until it is, we should not dare call our society civilized.

    by Love Me Slender on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 05:55:00 PM PDT

  •  Actions (like, failure to mobilize (5+ / 0-)

    enough votes to throw troglodytes out of office) have consequences.  Somebody (actually, many somebodies) elected the assholes who are formulating the laws that create a retro state, and I for one am tired of southern states setting the bar so low that common humanity is considered to be liberal excess.  This affects the rest of the country, as my tax dollars often go to prop up these 3rd world entities, not to mention the efforts of the right wing in right wing states to drag the rest of us down to some subsistence level of function.  
        Get your house in order, I might consider showing up at a conference or a vacation in Florida ('cause, in spite of the obvious lack of public services and amenities, the--again, obvious--hollowed out civic core, and all the concrete, in the past I did enjoy a stay in Miami, there are some really interesting people there)--'til then, not a moment or a cent will I spend in/on Florida.  If the people of Florida really want to change things, they will--but I'm not holding my breath, frankly.

    In a dark time, the eye begins to see. Theodore Roethke

    by bibble on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 05:57:26 PM PDT

    •  Hear, hear (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      worldlotus

      At least here in Pennsylvania Governor One-Term is likely to be exactly that.

      We make mistakes.  But we do tend to correct them.  Eventually.

      We're far from perfect.  But we aren't Florida, and only have a limited Stand Your Ground law that actually, arguably, kind of makes a little sense (house, residence, and business only).

      (-6.38, -7.03) Moderate left, moderate libertarian

      by Lonely Liberal in PA on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 06:58:18 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  OK (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    US Blues, nellgwen

    Then boycott Florida because of Rick Scott.

    •  I hate Rick Scott. (0+ / 0-)

      But there's more to Florida than some asshole there who happens to hold a big office.

      Warren/3-D Print of Warren in 2016!

      by dov12348 on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 06:08:20 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  "Happens to hold." (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        worldlotus, Zack from the SFV

        You write that as if he tripped into the position, or as if he was appointed by someone.

        He "happens to hold" that office because a plurality of your fellow Floridians who went to the polls checked a box saying "we want that man to be governor of our state."

        The people of Florida elected Rick Scott. Elections have consequences.

        "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

        by JamesGG on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 08:21:42 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Well, I can understand your (9+ / 0-)

    feelings, as I currently live in Arizona and people who used to visit me have avoided coming here.  I worried about the boycott for a while, but I understood the reasoning behind it and now I think I just might return to my home state of Minnesota because I don't like living around dickheads.  (apologies to respectable dickheads...)

    I'll take the cold over assholes any day.

    "If you're in trouble, or hurt or need - go to the poor people. They're the only ones that'll help - the only ones." John Steinbeck

    by BluejayRN on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 06:23:18 PM PDT

  •  I have a personal "case of the ass" with Florida.. (4+ / 0-)

    .....because of how I've been personally treated down there, and the latest antics of the criminal justice system (it's fucking criminal, all right) is just the icing on the cake for me....

    "Ronald Reagan is DEAD! His policies live on but we're doing something about THAT!"

    by leftykook on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 06:39:48 PM PDT

  •  Nope. (8+ / 0-)

    I'm boycotting Florida oranges in my personal life, and in my activism. I've already sent email blasts out to my list, and to be honest, a few of them were way ahead of me in regards to making Spring Break an issue.

    I've seen some hardboiled eggs in my time, but you're about twenty minutes

    by harrylimelives on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 06:40:22 PM PDT

  •  Also (12+ / 0-)

    I posted a diary about this subject last night and learned something incredible, that I had not knwn before, that the gay community boycotted Florida Citrus Growers for their support of homophobia...and won. So, there is precedent for boycotting Florida oranges and being successful.

    I've seen some hardboiled eggs in my time, but you're about twenty minutes

    by harrylimelives on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 06:54:10 PM PDT

  •  I've never been to Florida... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dov12348, wu ming, harrylimelives, 3rock

    ...and nothing I've heard about the place in the last 15 years or so has done anything to make me any more anxious to rectify that.  So I don't suppose they'll ever know what they're missing.

    I'll believe corporations are people when one comes home from Afghanistan in a body bag.

    by mojo11 on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 07:02:55 PM PDT

  •  In my old age I was planning on (6+ / 0-)

    revisiting Disneyworld. Now, I think I'll spend my money at Disneyland. Besides being closer, and in California, it won't cost as much and I don't have to worry about being shot because I'm wearing a hoodie (even old white women wear hoodies!).

    I reject your reality and substitute my own - Adam Savage

    by woolibaar on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 07:03:37 PM PDT

  •  Buy Blue (5+ / 0-)

    That's my motto. For example,  if I have a choice of second-hand resellers on Amazon and they all offer the book I want, I always buy from the blue state vendor.

    These days there is very little power left to the individual and what little I have, I choose to exercise in favor of the things I value.  Red states that work against my values do not get the time of day.  

    It's the Supreme Court, stupid!

    by Radiowalla on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 07:09:19 PM PDT

  •  Well, it's not like I'd be real comfy (6+ / 0-)

    taking my large brown autistic teenager to Disney World. What if he wanted to go to a convenience store and buy a snack without me?

    You can put your shoes in the oven, but it won't make them biscuits.

    by quetzalmom on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 07:57:10 PM PDT

  •  I don't know how I feel exactly about a (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Shippo1776

    boycott.  I know my little girl has to have a public education and Scott just needs a reason to privatize everything so ....it does hurt the schools.
    I know I have to drive on the roads ....and a couple of busted tires will get fixed somehow......
    I know things are very bad with corruption in Florida but
    I have lived only in the south so...it seems liberal to me rather than the rural areas of Ga.....what does that tell you?
    I feel that 15 hours waiting in a hospital is no fun but I guess 19 or 20 won't be that much more because I know what a boycott would do to people like me...
    It is already bad but for disabled and retired with kids on fixed incomes, it is bad.   Real bad.  I actually think the opposite of a boycott is what we need.  An influx of blue liberals to put some teapartiers in their place because many of us are older, poor and trying to live our golden years out iin a warm climate and just manage to stay out of people's way.  

    If Florida is to turn bright blue then we need more Alan Graysons.  We don't need free thinkers to turn their backs on some of us who cannot move.  We are here with rotten apples who will not change without being pushed and unfortunately the rednecks and racists outweigh those of us who try to make a difference.  Look at  Ga.. OPOL and Doc Zombie, Rachel, and so many I can't name are there.
    Here is Zwoof, Beach Babe, Just Bob, Jax Dem, Tommyfocus, old hippie chic, FloridaSNMOM, Charlie Grapski, and many more real activists than I can name.
    We are here.  We are trying to make a difference.  We need help.   We will be stuck with Scott if we don't have liberal people helping us make change because the truth is, we just can't do it alone.   If the liberal flooded Florida and kept the money in their pockets it might scare the teaparty back in it's hole.   We will go completely red and maybe that is what corey and Scott and Sanford wanted.

    We the People have to make a difference and the Change.....Just do it ! Be part of helping us build a veteran community online. United Veterans of America

    by Vetwife on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 08:16:54 PM PDT

  •  There is Always a Helpless Person at the End of (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    worldlotus

    the chain of events of any popular boycott, strike or denial of service.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 08:28:24 PM PDT

  •  The karma of climate change will deal... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Zack from the SFV

    with Florida. It won't be pretty.

    Just another faggity fag socialist fuckstick homosinner!

    by Ian S on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 08:38:20 PM PDT

    •  As it will with all of the coastal states (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Brown Thrasher

      including California and New York.  Your comment sounds like it came out of the Jerry Falwell playbook.  

      It's the Supreme Court, stupid!

      by Radiowalla on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 08:58:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  except that FL has more low lying territory (0+ / 0-)

           and hurricanes than CA or NY. Everywhere will be affected by climate change. Out west we are in a semi-permanent drought which will hurt us more than erosion (though that will also have effects). FL will not get it as bad as the Maldives or other island nations that will disappear, but I would not invest in FL land for the long term. In fifty years much of it will be underwater or subject to serious flooding.

        Diehard Swingnut, disgruntled Democrat, age 54, new CA-30

        by Zack from the SFV on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 12:10:02 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Trayvon would have been able to vote in 2014 (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Radiowalla, allensl, JL, worldlotus, gramofsam1

    To truly honor him we could register every Democrat we could find wherever we are.

    We can let voters know the importance of voting at the state and local levels and in midterms.

    Get the GOP out of office and repeal Stand Your Ground and the other terrible laws the GOP have come up with.

    Reid was finally able to get enough Democrats on his side for filibuster reform and to use it for a threat in the future because the GOP is so incredibly awful that the average voter is starting to take notice.

    Now is the time to register them, help them get voter ids if needed and help them learn the importance of their vote.

    It's the long haul and it's work to register voters and GOTV, but we could do it if we all did our part.  it would mean so much to other black youths to get rid of Stand Your Ground.  There's more to do, but it would mean something real -- that no lives could be taken like this and the murderer walk away free and clear.

    “I have this dark side. It wants out. It wants to buy new shoes.” Will Farrell, The Other Guy

    by ParkRanger on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 08:41:36 PM PDT

  •  I've boycotted FL since the 2000 election (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    worldlotus, 3rock, Zack from the SFV

    I buy oranges from Australia.

    O great creator of being grant us one more hour to perform our art and perfect our lives. ::: Jim Morrison :::

    by Kevanlove on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 09:15:58 PM PDT

  •  Is it safe to go to Florida? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Zack from the SFV

    The Miami area has the worst violent crime rate in the nation.  "Stand your ground" earned some pre-Zimmerman infamy by helping gangbangers escape responsibility for their crimes.  

    In 2009, Orlando ranked third in the nation for violent crime, tying with Montgomery and beating out Detroit.  

    Link

    Perhaps my white skin might protect me, except for the fact that Stand Your Ground leads to a higher rate of killing of white men (to say nothing of African-Americans!)

    Sorry, but I'm not sure that I would be safe in your state.  If I look at someone funny who has had a bit too much to drink, I don't want to get plugged.  

    "Politics should be the part-time profession of every citizen who would protect the rights and privileges of free people and who would preserve what is good and fruitful in our national heritage." -- Lucille Ball

    by Yamaneko2 on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 10:53:41 PM PDT

  •  Plenty other reasons to boycott (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    gramofsam1

    Like prosecuting developmentally disabled kids who don't understand that they can actually hurt or kill someone else.  Or executing innocent people after refusing to let them reopen their case so that exonerating DNA evidence can be considered.

    "Everybody wants to go to Heaven but nobody wants to die" --- Albert King

    by HarpboyAK on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 03:40:23 AM PDT

  •  My good friend JaxDem lives in FL (0+ / 0-)

    That means the state isn't all that bad

    Happy just to be alive

    by exlrrp on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 05:45:23 AM PDT

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