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Students at Howard University make a statement about profiling
An innocent teenage boy is dead. The man who killed him is free. And not only that: He might even get the gun he used returned to him.

The result of the case is a travesty of justice. It should be a crime, beyond any reasonable doubt, for a man to take a loaded gun, act in contravention of the advice of an emergency dispatcher, stalk an innocent teenager in the neighborhood, and kill him after a confrontation that, regardless of who swung first or who swung at all, was the result of the killer's aggressive and reckless behavior. It should be. And every protest, every utterance of abhorrent disbelief, every political press release decrying this miscarriage of justice, every howl of execration from all corners of our country and perhaps even the world, every tear shed for a life that should never have been lost—these are all more than justified.

The rationale for the outcome itself, however, is less simple, and there is adequate reason to agree with the verdict returned, even for those who find it distasteful. The legal system that governed this case had failed Trayvon Martin long before George Zimmerman picked up his gun and decided that he would not be one to get away. It's possible that without the existence of so called "stand your ground" laws in Florida—which apparently allow someone who feels threatened to use deadly force, no matter who initiated an altercation—Zimmerman would have borne some culpability for the spiteful and prejudicial horror he wrought. But should one believe that given the specifics of the laws governing the case and the instructions given the jury, that the correct verdict was handed down, it would seem common sense that there be no celebrating the final outcome of this tragedy.

If only. More below the fold.

For some of the most popular figures on the right, the fact that Trayvon Martin was killed by a stalker for simply walking down a sidewalk is an unacceptable narrative: instead, they feel the need to demonize his life. Here's Ted Nugent:

But George Zimmerman and his entire family, innocent of any wrongdoing, have lost everything and will be in debt for a long, long time for having to fight the trumped-up charges that he "profiled" and/or set out to murder the poor, helpless, dope-smoking, dope-peddling, gangsta wannabe, Skittles hoodie boy.
Rush Limbaugh felt the need to compare Trayvon Martin and Boston Bomber suspect Dzokhar Tzarnaev. The ever-so-moral Pat Robertson declared that Trayvon was basically at fault because he jumped on someone whom he "thought was a quasi-policeman," as if to imply that the victim had a lack of respect for law enforcement and presumably deserved to die for the offense. But as bad as they are, they are far from alone. Right-wing media figures have conducted a relentless smear campaign against the victim, suggesting with no evidence that he was a "wannabe gangster" and a drug dealer with a history of violence. Zimmerman's guilt or innocence had absolutely nothing to do with Trayvon Martin's past, but rather on the singular events that took place that fateful evening. And yet, the right wing continues to feel this twisted compulsion to insult his death by tarnishing his life. Why?

Because as horrific as it is, the fantasy about killing aggressive urban minorities in self-defense is a prevalent, deeply held narrative among certain sections of the American right. It's not a hidden fantasy, a secret and dark desire that dare not speak its name. No, this strain states its intentions and its desires loudly and proudly. Take, for instance, shock jock Neal Boortz, who had this to say about crime in Atlanta:

This town is starting to look like a garbage heap. And we got too damn many urban thugs, yo, ruining the quality of life for everybody. And I'll tell you what it's gonna take. You people, you are - you need to have a gun. You need to have training. You need to know how to use that gun. You need to get a permit to carry that gun. And you do in fact need to carry that gun and we need to see some dead thugs littering the landscape in Atlanta. We need to see the next guy that tries to carjack you shot dead right where he stands. We need more dead thugs in this city. And let their -- let their mommas -- let their mommas say, "He was a good boy. He just fell in with the good crowd." And then lock her ass up.
This isn't an isolated phenomenon. On far-right message board Free Republic, there have been threads where posters openly fantasize about killing black people who "invade" their communities subsequent to rioting or social unrest. In the minds of this strain of the American right, best represented by Rush Limbaugh and Ted Nugent, Trayvon Martin must have been violent, must have been a gangster, must have been a drug dealer or drug addict. Because were this not the case—were he simply, as he was, a teenager carrying a can of iced tea and a pack of Skittles minding his own business and on his way home—it would suggest that perhaps the vigilante fantasy that so pervades the conservative camp might be mistaken; that perhaps standing one's ground for so-called Second Amendment remedies could result in the death of an innocent teenager, rather than justified self-defense against one of Boortz' so-called "urban thugs."

Trayvon Martin is dead. But some among the right feel the need to kill his soul as well, all so a disturbing vigilante fantasy can live on without hindrance.

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Comment Preferences

  •  "Thug" must be they new "N word" for racists. (36+ / 0-)

    To rightwing haters, President Obama is a thug, Trayvon Martin most certainly a thug who got what he deserved. They see "thugs" everywhere.
    Nothing less than the right to walk down the street unmolested is at stake here, especially for young black men.

    "Let's stay together"--Rev. Al Green and President Obama

    by collardgreens on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 08:39:04 AM PDT

  •  The students at Howard University certainly made (21+ / 0-)

    a statement with that photo. One can only wish that those who need to understand profiling and don't will take notice, but I'm not holding my breath.

  •  Before December 14, 2012, I didn't mind gun (9+ / 0-)

    owners so much. In the months following, I learned to hate them here on this blog.

    Now after this STG travesty, I hate them, hate them.

    I hope everyone carrying a sign in a protest also carries a voter registration.

    •  Not STG - SYG (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Hohenzollern, micsimov

      give the NRA the Royal Flush join Stop The NRA

      by 88kathy on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 08:42:19 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Swear to God? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        micsimov

        Short Term Goals?
        Star Trek Generations?
        Small Tongue & Groove?

        ;-)

        •  Shitcan The Gun. (7+ / 0-)

          give the NRA the Royal Flush join Stop The NRA

          by 88kathy on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 09:20:01 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I hope you don't live in Detroit where (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ban nock, WillR, PavePusher, oldpunk

            it takes an hour for the police to respond to 911 emergency calls.

            I certainly wouldn't want to live in a place like that. Even where I live it takes several minutes for the police to respond. What about farmers and ranchers who live out on farms and prairies? It could take a law enforcement officer several hours to respond if at all. These are the people who provide you with the food you eat to keep you alive.

            Regardless of what the nra says or does, you should be ashamed trying to take away the rights of decent people to self defense while you sit in your comfort.

            Here is what the Dalai Lama says about self defense,

            In 2001, he answered the question of a girl in a Seattle school by saying that it is permissible to shoot someone with a gun in self-defense if that person was "trying to kill you," and he emphasized that the shot should not be fatal

            http://en.wikipedia.org/...

            Knowledge is Power. Ignorance is not bliss, it is suffering. If you like hypocrite Obama, you'll love hypocrite Hillary.

            by harris stein on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 09:41:43 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I used to feel that way. But December 14 and (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              blueoregon, Faito, micsimov, dotdash2u

              the gun owners I met here changed all of that. They should be ashamed of themselves for the way they acted.

              They aren't good guys with guns. Not at all. They fling their guns and ammo around without a care in the world. They tell me it is impossible to keep their guns under control. They forget they have them. They leave them laying on merry go rounds. They shoot them by accident. They lose them. They are sloppy. Sloppy. And then tell me they need more guns because the guns they lost are coming to get them.

              Now they have what they have always wanted. The perfect murder. Stand your ground.

              give the NRA the Royal Flush join Stop The NRA

              by 88kathy on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 09:58:50 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  To those who remind us (5+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                88kathy, Faito, mmacdDE, sukeyna, micsimov

                that "Hitler banned guns" I respond "He also banned abortion and homosexuality, sounds like he was on your side".

                To those who point out that "China has gun control" I say "And Afghanistan doesn't.  Which would you prefer to emigrate to?"

                I'll believe corporations are people when one comes home from Afghanistan in a body bag.

                by mojo11 on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 10:32:12 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  How about adding; the Genie is out of the bottle (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                PavePusher

                and has been for almost 700 years. http://en.wikipedia.org/...
                You won't be able to put it back in.

                We should be learning from the tragic events of December 14, 2012. Instead we have people on both sides of the political spectrum using it for their own self interest. Don't forget that Adam Lanza killed his mother with her gun while she slept. Only a twisted mind full of pretzel logic with no concept of right and wrong could conceive of doing something like that, not to mention what he did after killing his mother.

                Where does this kind of pretzel logic come from? It doesn't come from a gun. It comes from a vile society that values the pretzel logic that someone on Wall Street who does absolutely nothing is rewarded handsomely or from a society that values a certain standard of appearance that the majority of people could never meet. All this while the person who gets their hands dirty or the person who doesn't meet society's standard of appearance gets borscht, if they get anything.

                Knowledge is Power. Ignorance is not bliss, it is suffering. If you like hypocrite Obama, you'll love hypocrite Hillary.

                by harris stein on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 11:14:46 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  People won't take basic responsibility for storage (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  a2nite, micsimov, dotdash2u

                  and handling of guns. So there you go. The gun owners who you would think would be leading the charge to make basic storage and handling of guns serious business.  Those very people are playing get out of jail free, SYG license to kill, and GUNHO bingo.

                  Not asking for anything extraordinary here See GunFAIL and Gun Crazy, just basic responsibility for storage and handling of guns.

                  Sloppy gun handling practices are defended by RkBA and NRA.

                  give the NRA the Royal Flush join Stop The NRA

                  by 88kathy on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 11:33:01 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Boom goes the dynamite (0+ / 0-)

                    We really need to start prosecuting those who are careless in the storing and handling of their firearms.

                    Just this week another child was killed with a unsecured firearm.   Also this week another child died when left unattended in the car on a hot summer day.

                    Care to guess which case is more likely to have criminal charges filed?

                •  GUNHO - see N 3rd space THAT WON'T WORK (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Faito

                  give the NRA the Royal Flush join Stop The NRA

                  by 88kathy on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 11:34:24 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  Guns don't kill people dontcha know (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                88kathy

                When shit acquires value the poor are born without
                ass-holes.  --Henry Miller

            •  Did the Dalai Lama say it was premissible to (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              micsimov

              leave your gun lying around so anyone can get it? Did the Dalai Lama say you shouldn't misfire your gun? Did the Dalai Lama understand how fucked so called gun responsibility is? It is just a get out of jail free card. There is no responsibility.

              give the NRA the Royal Flush join Stop The NRA

              by 88kathy on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 10:02:00 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  PS STG was just a typo and we were joking around (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Faito, micsimov

              about what it stood for. So get all excited about Detroit. What they really, really need in Detroit is more guns. And the farmers who carry a AR15 on the combine to bring be my daily bread. It's all for poor pitiful me.

              give the NRA the Royal Flush join Stop The NRA

              by 88kathy on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 10:06:08 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Stop Trolling GOS (0+ / 0-)

          Racial hostility, homophobia and misogyny are braided together like strands of the same rope. When we fight one, we fight them all. - Charles M. Blow

          by blueoregon on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 11:04:48 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Repeating a couple of comments I made in Hunter's (28+ / 0-)

    ... piece:

    Concealed carry and open carry makes pseudo-cops out of the George Zimmermans of the world. The NRA has flogged the "self-defense" myth for the past three-plus decades now, ever since the gun makers realized they needed to drum up a new market as rural populations shifted to urban centers and hunting and other shooting sports began suffering steady declines.

    This is what brought us to this point. I see NRA "self-defense" talking points regurgitated, verbatim, here at Daily Kos, especially from proponents of concealed and open carry.

    All of these concealed/open carry folks are "responsible gun owners"... Until they're not. We haven't heard too much from the RKBA contingent here on Stand Your Ground laws since the verdict, though in perusing past comments, those who are proponents of open or concealed carry would likely view such laws as reasonable.

    My point is that Stand Your Ground didn't appear out of nowhere. These inane and insane laws are part of the NRA's and the gunmaker's long march to "normalize" handguns as part of daily American life.

    It's the need to always be carrying a handgun in order to "be prepared" or "be safe" that has been the greatest propaganda victory for the NRA and gun makers.

    "Self-defense" is a myth and I see the talking points of that myth regularly regurgitated here by a few members of our local gun crowd.

    Most of the daily gun toters here need a security blanket. They talk about how much they dislike major urban areas (you know, because they're so dangerous), while they live in rural areas free from those bad influences. And, yet, they still feel the need to carry a weapon on them in case the SHTF (that's the gun lovers' abbreviation for Shit Hits The Fan).

    What a steaming load.

    The NRA and gun makers have convinced a bunch of scared and insecure (mostly) white men that they need to carry a gun to be safe.

    Calling other DKos members "weenies" is a personal insult and therefore against site rules.

    by Bob Johnson on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 08:41:56 AM PDT

    •  Any Progress On Gun Control (0+ / 0-)

      Will be the result of the issue attracting new people.

      It will not be the result of anyone on dailykos suddenly getting their shit together, creating a plan, or reaching a goal, because those things will never.  

      That is symptomatic of most online "activism," but single issue online activism swiftly turns into parody.

      Men are so necessarily mad that not to be mad would amount to another form of madness -Pascal

      by bernardpliers on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 09:11:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Why a discussion of concealed and open carry is (10+ / 0-)

      ... important:

      The passage of concealed and open carry laws in states across the country has been a long, concerted march by the NRA and the gun makers. There is historical context to this "normalization" of gun carrying.

      The need to carry a gun hasn't always been the case here and it seems contrary to life in a civilized society. (Of course, I've had one of the major proponents of carry here tell me, without irony, that life in the U.S. is not civilized.)

      How have we as a nation have reached a place where so many (mostly) white men feel that they must carry a weapon on them at all times?

      This context is important because that path leads directly to George Zimmerman.

      Calling other DKos members "weenies" is a personal insult and therefore against site rules.

      by Bob Johnson on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 09:30:31 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Strawman Argument, Ad Hominem, Mind Reading (0+ / 0-)

      ....guilt by association and purity trolling.

      All of these concealed/open carry folks are "responsible gun owners"... Until they're not. We haven't heard too much from the RKBA contingent here on Stand Your Ground laws since the verdict, though in perusing past comments, those who are proponents of open or concealed carry would likely view such laws as reasonable.
      Bob relies heavily on powers of clairvoyance to make ad hominem accusations.  Bob has not listed his other supers, but as I always ask him if he can fly.

      Men are so necessarily mad that not to be mad would amount to another form of madness -Pascal

      by bernardpliers on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 10:52:29 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  you are right there should be no celebrating. (0+ / 0-)

    The case was tragic.

    if you believe GZ and he didn't have a gun, he was going to die.

    if you believe TM's family, an innocent teen lost a promising life.

    if you look at it objectively, one life is gone, another ruined.

    OMara should have given a very simple statement

    " The trial is over, the jury has rendered it's verdict.
    The result no matter how it was rendered could never
    restore Trayvon's life. Mr Zimmerman has completed
    his obligations before the courts and would like to
    live quietly. He wishes to express his thanks to the judge
    and jury, and now he will join his family and try to
    live a life in peace. We thank you all for listening."

    Nothing more needed to be said.

  •  "Race Riot" fantasy (10+ / 0-)

    If you read the comments on Huffington after the President's talk about the case you would have found two variations on the same idea.  Either the President's comments were racist and designed to exacerbate divisions or they would provoke a "race riot".   The juror who spoke on CNN remembered "riots" happening after the killing.   The media was full of stories before the verdict about fears of riots if the verdict when for Zimmerman.    All part of the same theme to make the way African-Americans are treated in this country their fault.  Blaming the victim is standard operating procedure for the right along with creating fear and loathing of others in order to keep their base distracted.

    The difficulty lies not so much in developing new ideas as in escaping from old ones! - John Maynard Keynes

    by Do Something on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 08:44:37 AM PDT

    •  Lots of talk about (6+ / 0-)

      "race riots" at my office, which is populated mostly by middle-aged white guys--All of whom thought GZ was justified in killing TM, who "jumped him"...

    •  I am very glad there weren't riots (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      worldlotus, eps62, mmacdDE

      The protesters have been given a wide hearing in part because of the serious, dignified and peaceful nature of the protests and vigils.  The post-Rodney King riots in LA that followed another sensationalized and highly racially charged trial were devastating to race relations.  To state they were counter-productive is to put it very minimally.  They amplified the tragedy a thousand fold.  In this case, the response to tragedy may help move our country to a better place.  The President's statement hit exactly the right tone.

  •  Treating EVERYONE like a suspect is the end game (17+ / 0-)

    Having lived that experience in Iraq, it ain't fun.

    Course, living with constant fear and expecting to be shot any second doesn't give you much time to do anything other than... well, live in constant fear and expect to be shot at any second.

    Sounds like a win for the MIC to me!

    /snark

    I don't blame Christians. I blame Stupid. Which sadly is a much more popular religion these days.

    by detroitmechworks on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 08:45:29 AM PDT

  •  Thanks (9+ / 0-)

    My sentiments exactly.  I  look at the larger issue and think where is it possible and lauded by may, where an armed white (certainly not a visible minority), wannabe cop can stalk, against the advice of the dispatcher, an unarmed, black young man, walking in the evening's rain, wearing a hoodie be shot dead in the street?  We are broken, we are lost, when something like this happens and we hear justification of the of the acquittal.  The greater question is, why does a nation, that describes itself as the poster child of democracy and equality, have legislation that can be used against a marginalized population?  We are definitely not in Kansas anymore.

    Canadian mother of four, works at Canadian University, blogs and co-host of Blog Talk Radio's "Lies My Country Told Me" with co-host and love of my life, Fred Lemon.

    by mmayer on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 08:46:59 AM PDT

    •  2 responses. (0+ / 0-)

      I do not know why you dont think GZ was a visible minority.  In 90% of his photos he looks clearly Hispanic to me.  This assertion has been really confusing to me.

       

      I  look at the larger issue and think where is it possible and lauded by may, where an armed white (certainly not a visible minority), wannabe cop can stalk, against the advice of the dispatcher, an unarmed, black young man, walking in the evening's rain, wearing a hoodie be shot dead in the street?
      This description completely ignores the important part.

      Who they were does not matter to justice or the legal system.  

      What they did is the ONLY thing that matters here.

      It is legal to follow someone. It is legal to shoot and kill someone in self defense.

      That is what happened according to a jury of our peers.

      The status of marginalized populations does not come up in that set of events.

      •  0112358, curious-so I have to ask about this: (0+ / 0-)
        I do not know why you dont think GZ was a visible minority.  In 90% of his photos he looks clearly Hispanic to me.  This assertion has been really confusing to me.
        If it had never been mentioned that the shooter had a "Hispanic" mother, would you have still considered him a visible minority?

        Or was your take on his ethnicity based solely on his photo appearance?

        •  Giving my honest reply "yes" (0+ / 0-)

          I think I would. I can not say 100% for sure as I do know that he has Hispanic roots so I can not purge that from my memory. But I think so.  There are a few pictures where the answer is maybe. But I just went to google image and scanned.. Thats where I cam up with the rough estimate of 90%

          •  Thanks for responding. I am "curious" about (0+ / 0-)

            how people perceive others and how this ties into assumptions made about ethnicity (aside from obvious melanin) based on physical appearance.

            Thus far in my lifetime, I have witnessed human beings make assumptions based on another's first or last name, their clothing, their skin color, their accent, their place of birth & now a photo.

            This boggles the mind & is just plain scary to me.  Scary for many reasons.

            If you saw some random photos of my offspring, you would assume that they are Hispanic.  If a native Hawaiian or European or First People saw their photos, they might assume differently.

            If you saw photos of my grandchildren, you would  assign them a completely different ethnicity than those you chose for my offspring.

             And if given photo choices of a variety of children, perhaps (more than likely) not pair the correct ones with my offspring....

            Interesting.  You've given me much to ponder.

      •  Hmmmm.... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        micsimov, HCKAD

        George Zimmerman self identifies as 'white'.  He may seem like a visible minority to others, but to himself, he's 'white'.
        You are somewhat correct in the assumption...

        Who they were does not matter to justice or the legal system.  
        Who they were shouldn't matter to justice or the legal system....if the case had happened anywhere that racial profiling didn't/doesn't take place.
        However....
        Who the two people were matters alot in Sanford FL.
        One was a self identified 'white' person who was known to the police and the other was 'the other'.
        It makes a great deal of difference that GZ targeted in on a young black man in a hoodie.  
        It makes a great deal of difference that GZ made racial slurs about Trayvon Martin to the dispatcher before he knew anything about the young man.  
        It makes a great deal of difference that GZ chose not to listen to the dispatcher and just stay in his car and let the professionals handle the situation.  He was not going to let this one get away.
        It makes a great deal of difference that the Sanford police chose to treat GZ with deference after he killed an unarmed black teenager.
        So while in a perfect world, who the two people were shouldn't matter to justice or the legal system, in Sanford FL, in February of 2012 and again in July of 2013, it mattered quite a bit.

        I think, therefore I am........................... Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose....AKA Engine Nighthawk - don't even ask!

        by Lilyvt on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 11:15:47 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  A jury of (0+ / 0-)

          his and our peers made a judgment about the significance and or existence of your opinions/facts.

          Perhaps its worth while to trust our justice system and trust that our fellow citizens to make somewhat valid decisions.

          The people still on this crusade seem to be declaring this is a racial issue without any evidence that GZ got any slack due to his "race".

          The argument seems to be GZ shot and killed a black teenager and was found innocent so it MUST be a racial issue.

          Thats a bit of a racist jump in logic.  

          •  Sigh.... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            micsimov

            This response is exactly why there are still people on this crusade against injustice.
            Thank goodness.

            I think, therefore I am........................... Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose....AKA Engine Nighthawk - don't even ask!

            by Lilyvt on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 12:44:05 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  In the US criminal justice system (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Lilyvt, HCKAD

          it almost always matters who you are, and what sort of "justice" you receive is all too often determined by how much you can afford.  And those with the means can buy the politicians to alter the laws to protect and make "legal" their actions.  Any Wall Street "banker" can testify to that.

          When shit acquires value the poor are born without
          ass-holes.  --Henry Miller

  •  Is "urban" code for "blah"? n/t (8+ / 0-)

    ~War is Peace~Freedom is Slavery~Ignorance is Strength~ George Orwell "1984"

    by Kristina40 on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 08:47:29 AM PDT

  •  Good for the Howard University students..... (13+ / 0-)

    But as the President said, even with their scrubs or whites, they will be profiled on the way to the Hospital.

    The assumptions that Trayvon was the aggressor, that he had a criminal history, that he was 6'2", that he did not have the right to Stand Your Ground himself,  etc. etc.  are the issue here.

    No one knows for sure what occurred (except for Zimmerman) and yet the assumption is that Trayvon should be distrusted and Zimmerman trusted is the problem on the web.

    As long as a person with a gun has the right to be judge and jury, we will continue to have Zimmerman trials.

    We will never be free from fear as long as we fear the NRA.

    by captainlaser on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 08:51:11 AM PDT

  •  This is a beautiful essay. (13+ / 0-)

    It deserves to be more widely read.

    To keep our faces turned toward change, and behave as free spirits in the presence of fate--that is strength undefeatable. (Helen Keller)

    by kareylou on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 08:53:00 AM PDT

  •  Following not stalking. (0+ / 0-)

    GOP Wars against: Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Immigrants, Mexicans, Blacks, Gays, Women, Unions, Workers, Unemployed, Voters, Elderly, Kids, Poor, Sick, Disabled, Dying, Lovers, Kindness, Rationalism, Science, Sanity, Reality.

    by SGWM on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 08:57:21 AM PDT

  •  Where are the police organizations in all of this? (10+ / 0-)

    Isn't it illegal to impersonate cops?
    As the liar Pat Robertson points out, Zimmerman was acting as a quasi-policeman.

    who apparently jumped on a man who thought he was a quasi-policeman.
    Zimmerman asked John Good for help to "restrain" the "suspect."
    Oops...sorry.
    The cops accepted Zimmerman as one of them and treated him as such.
    The killing of Trayvon's soul starting that night with the first cops on the scene.
    After the murderer had done his deed, that is.

    Maya Angelou: "Without courage, we cannot practice any other virtue with consistency. We can't be kind, true, merciful, generous, or honest."

    by JoanMar on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 08:58:45 AM PDT

  •  The NRA has made it much easier to put (6+ / 0-)

    a gun in your hand. It has always implanted the fears in your brain that make you want to use that gun. NRA love fear and death. They'd love to see some MORE genocide going on right here right now.
    What was once an advisory group is now a propaganda-spouting, death-, fear- and hate-mongering vehicle of destruction.
    Shun the Freedumb.

    "He went to Harvard, not Hogwarts." ~Wanda Sykes

    Blessinz of teh Ceiling Cat be apwn yu, srsly.

    by OleHippieChick on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 09:01:34 AM PDT

  •  Maybe it should be a crime to try to beat someone (0+ / 0-)

    to death.

    GOP Wars against: Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Immigrants, Mexicans, Blacks, Gays, Women, Unions, Workers, Unemployed, Voters, Elderly, Kids, Poor, Sick, Disabled, Dying, Lovers, Kindness, Rationalism, Science, Sanity, Reality.

    by SGWM on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 09:03:30 AM PDT

  •  See "The Survivors," 1978 film (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    worldlotus

    Donald Petrie's satire of the far-right as it was developing in the Carter administration and the identical fantasies. Trust me, they were talked and fantasized then.

    The "survivalist" movement largely died when the fuel disappeared with Ronnie. The remnants, though, became . . . surprise: the Militia movement.

    The movie is quite good. It has Walter Mathau and Robin Williams, along with Jerry Reed as the fake minority.

    Everyone's innocent of some crime.

    by The Geogre on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 09:09:53 AM PDT

  •  Most Racist Statement Of Them All (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    maybeeso in michigan, MNGlasnant

    Men are so necessarily mad that not to be mad would amount to another form of madness -Pascal

    by bernardpliers on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 09:13:08 AM PDT

  •  I don't get the bit about getting his gun back. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    annieli, worldlotus, Faito

    Can't he just go buy another gun, or twenty of them, regardless of whether they give that particular one back to him, given he was found not guilty and Florida's permissive gun statutes?

  •  If leaders in the black community began urging (4+ / 0-)

    black folks to buy guns and rely on "stand your ground" to defend themselves  . . . .

    Yeah.

    'Nuff said.

    "Let's see what fresh fuckwittery these dolts can contrive to torment themselves with this time." -- Iain Banks, The Hydrogen Sonata

    by Rikon Snow on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 09:18:20 AM PDT

  •  Really? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    eps62

    So now the progressive community is endorsing the idea that if someone is disturbing you by following you at a distance, rather than walking briskly to your father's house a few minutes away, calling your dad for help, calling the police, or confronting the guy verbally, it's OK instead to sucker-punch him and give him a beating?

    Or, to put it another way, if you do something stupid but perfectly legal like follow some random dude (but not threaten him in any overt way) and he attacks you and you defend yourself according to the law, you should go to jail for decades?

    Why don't we just throw in the towel and suggest that everyone carry a gun?

    •  Gad. (8+ / 0-)

      1.  You don't know what Treyvon was thinking.  He couldn't testify.  He's dead.  Did he have no right to stand his ground?  Maybe he felt threatened.

      2.  You can't sucker punch someone unless they're standing in front of you.  Standing in front of someone is not how you follow them.

      Come to whatever conclusion makes you happy.

      "Let's see what fresh fuckwittery these dolts can contrive to torment themselves with this time." -- Iain Banks, The Hydrogen Sonata

      by Rikon Snow on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 09:28:58 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Alas, the evidence... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        eps62

        The trouble is, the evidence actually introduced in court doesn't conform to the narrative. I'm a progressive, I hate the NRA and concealed-carry laws and gated communities, for that matter. But I hate political correctness more, and only those who are willfully blind to the evidence can still claim that it was Zimmerman who did the confronting and not Martin who initiated the physical violence.

        •  Total Bullshit (11+ / 0-)

          Zimmerman got out of his truck, against expert advice, to "follow" a "suspect" after being told there was no need to do that.

          ZIMMERMAN started it.

          In any sane country he would be doing time for manslaughter.

          But this country is not sane on the subject of race relations, and never has been.

          If it's
          Not your body,
          Then it's
          Not your choice
          And it's
          None of your damn business!

          by TheOtherMaven on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 09:45:37 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  There was testimony (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          doroma
          and only those who are willfully blind to the evidence
          but little evidence with the exception of Zimmerman being told to stay in his car and his disobeying resulting in the most substantial evidence, a young black mans corpse.

          one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular, but he must do it because Conscience tells him it is right. MLK

          by Klick2con10ue on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 10:26:26 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I've listened to a lot of evidence (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          micsimov

          I don't have cable, so I haven't watched any media about it. I've listened to the police interrogations of Zimmerman and watched the drive through recreation of that night with the Sanford PD.
          I can't prove it, because there are no witnesses other than GZ, but it really sounds like he saw him after the 911 call, and tackled him him. I don't think Martin sprang out of somewhere and tried to fight him. I think GZ made that up. Can't prove it. But if you listen to all the interviews, it feels like that is what really happened because he keeps crossing himself up.

          "Those who can make you believe in absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

          by dancerat on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 11:21:32 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  There are problems with GZ's shifting stories. (0+ / 0-)

          To say that there are inconsistencies between the defense's re-enactment and Zimmerman’s verbal and written testimony elsewhere is to be charitable.

          For instance, in an interview Zimmerman gave to the police the night of the shooting, he says of Martin: “I was walking back through to where my car was, and he jumped out from the bushes.”

          However, in the video re-enactment, which took place a day after the murder, it’s clear not only that there are no bushes near the sidewalk but also that Zimmerman never mentions Martin’s jumping out from anywhere.

          And so on.  Charles Blow did a column on this.

          Zimmerman was supposedly 'standing his ground' because he felt threatened. But so was Martin. I mean, if you had just gone to pick up some candy and were walking home by yourself with no weapons, when suddenly some crazed middle aged guy runs after you with a gun, wouldn't you try to defend yourself too?

  •  "Stand Your Ground" is an exquisite piece of (12+ / 0-)

    social engineering, allowing the insecurities of one group now outweigh the virtues of others.  Exquisitely bad social engineering.

  •  Zimmerman and Reckless Endangerment (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite, eps62, dancerat, mmacdDE

    You say: "It should be a crime, beyond any reasonable doubt, for a man to take a loaded gun, act in contravention of the advice of an emergency dispatcher, stalk an innocent teenager in the neighborhood, and kill him after a confrontation that, regardless of who swung first or who swung at all, was the result of the killer's aggressive and reckless behavior. It should be."

    It is a crime.  It is generally called reckless endangerment, though I believe in Florida it is called culpable negligence.  Had Zimmerman been charged with this from the start, he would have had to accept a plea, as he is clearly guilty by his own account.  He had already committed that crime before the confrontation, so for this lesser charge it is completely irrelevant what happened during the confrontation.

    •  That's true (0+ / 0-)

      The prosecution messed up on that, because there was no way they could prove 2nd degree unless there was some sort of surprise witness.

      "Those who can make you believe in absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

      by dancerat on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 11:23:06 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Words now equivilent to N****r (5+ / 0-)

    Thug.
    Urban.
    Punk.

    Thank you GZ for revealing the racist meaning behind those words.

    To tweet or not to tweet. I tweet therefore I am.

    by RadicalParrot on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 09:36:26 AM PDT

  •  Travesty of justice (0+ / 0-)

    "The result of the case is a travesty of justice."

    No the travesty of justice in this situation is your and many others behavior regarding the outcome of this case.

    Just because it does not fit your racially motivated preconceived notion of guilt does not make it so that the verdict was wrong. It means most likely your bias was wrong.

    A jury of his peers found the man not guilty. On ANY counts.

    There is ZERO indication that the government failed to be aggressive enough in its prosecution. In-fact pressure from people like you, seems to have forced it to take more than reasonable action.

    If anything this opens the door for him to sue the shit out of the government for persecution

    http://en.wikipedia.org/...

    "On August 25, 2007, multiple sources reported that the players would file a federal civil-rights lawsuit against the city of Durham."

    Thanks to your political pressure on what should have been an apolitical case. Zimmerman will likely make MILLIONS for this event.

    Congratulations your political action is going to turn your villain into a multimillionaire.

    •  Of course! (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      boophus

      It must be the fault of the people who are upset that a teenager was fatally shot in the heart after being profiled and followed!

      And it's our fault that right-wing racists will treat Zimmerman like a rock star and shower him with money. They wouldn't do that if we hadn't provoked them with our...er...empathy for the victim.

      Brilliant, sir.

      "They say that time can be measured by the length of Thomas Friedman’s moustache." - Wingnut hate mail author.

      by Plox on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 10:03:58 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes (0+ / 0-)

        "And it's our fault that right-wing racists will treat Zimmerman like a rock star and shower him with money. They wouldn't do that if we hadn't provoked them with our...er...empathy for the victim."

        It is.

        This issue should never have been a political issue. The media capitalizing  on it and the obvious racists on both sides jumping into this has made this a disgusting circus.

        The far right and the far left got played by the media to make money. You fell happily into this money making trap.

    •  A millionaire who will bear the guilt of a killing (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      eps62, a2nite

      ... throughout his natural life.

      And who must be on guard, not for the kind of vigilante action he committed, but that someone more able and less fettered than the prosecution in this case will draw George out on his various versions of the story. And show the improbabilities for what they are. And make him look the fool, because George put himself out there to become a millionaire.

      Possibly, George Zimmerman will not bear any guilt. Maybe he is proud of his bigoted, racially motivated attitude toward blacks. (That's by his own words, not mine.) There are certainly those who will celebrate him and perhaps, lend him their guns.

      2014 IS COMING. Build up the Senate. Win back the House : 17 seats. Plus!

      by TRPChicago on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 10:37:27 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Your glad (0+ / 0-)

        and bragging that your bias has helped put a man found innocent of all charges by a jury of his and our peers in danger? Thats not justice that is a childhood mob mentality.  Disgusting and pathetic.

        •  I'm not bragging. George gave inconsistent ... (0+ / 0-)

          ... versions of his story(ies). No bias there; just read his statements.

          My point - responding to the preceding comment - was that when he puts himself before interviewers (as one would on a book tour, for example), he will be tested far more intensively than Sean Hannity's soft lobs. It wouldn't bother me that if he trades on his celebrity, he gets called to task. That is what happens to public figures.

          I don't want to see George Zimmerman in danger. Your charge has nothing to do with what I wrote. I hope he feels guilt or at least remorse for killing someone. I'd be afraid of any person who kills - in self defense or otherwise, no matter how pure of heart - yet doesn't feel sorrow for taking a life. Wouldn't you?

          2014 IS COMING. Build up the Senate. Win back the House : 17 seats. Plus!

          by TRPChicago on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 01:57:22 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Fair enough (0+ / 0-)

            I may have misinterpreted some of your intentions.

            If he indeed does do book tours he is putting himself at risk and that judgment call and the danger is his responsibility.  Its unfortunate but ya its reality.

            "Wouldn't you?" Good question. The answer is depends.

            I personally would be uncomfortable around anyone who carries a loaded weapon. The fact that they used it before in self defense, I do not think would make a difference.

            I personally am more worried by stupidity and carelessness.

    •  Analogy FAIL (0+ / 0-)

      The Duke lacrosse case was a very, very different beast. There you had a "victim" who apparently changed her story numerous times—at one point claiming she was attacked by twenty people, and then at another point claiming she was attacked by three.

      And you had a situation where the police and prosecutors "modified' procedures to ensure an "eyewitness identification."

      And then, most damning of all, in the face of clearly exculpatory evidence (namely, that she had had sex that night, but none of the alleged rapists' DNA was found), the prosecutor conspired to hide that evidence from the defendants.

      The state AG went so far as to say that he believed the accused were actually innocent of the charges filed against them.

      Show me how that is even remotely similar to what happened here.

      We don't want our country back, we want our country FORWARD. --Eclectablog

      by Samer on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 11:05:29 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  There (0+ / 0-)

        are already reports about information being intentionally removed from reports given to the defense.  

        But yes there are details in the cases that are different but the analogy is a good one.

        In both cases there is evidence showing that the prosecution was politically motivated.

        In both cases the accused, where not guilty.

        In both cases similar mobs came out to attack and destroy the lives of the accused despite their innocence.

        You may disagree but the legal system says that neither was guilt.

        •  You misunderstand the word "innocence." (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          micsimov, boophus, HCKAD

          Zimmerman was found not guilty of committing a legal crime.

          And, crucially, there remains one fundamental fact that distinguishes these two cases:

          In the lacrosse case, there was no acceptable evidence that any version of the events the prosecutor claimed had happened had taken place (at least one of the accused had an ironclad alibi).

          Here, GEORGE ZIMMERMAN INTENTIONALLY TOOK ACTIONS THAT LED TO THE DEATH OF A TEENAGER WHO HAD DONE NOTHING TO PROVOKE HIM.

          There was no reason, NONE AT ALL, for him to do what he did. In fact, the Neighborhood Watch guidelines specifically say NOT to do what he did.

          He should not have followed Martin.

          He should not have been armed.

          Because of those actions, Martin is dead.

          So, in other words: George Zimmerman was found not legally guilty of a crime, but there is no way, NONE AT ALL, that you can say he is "innocent." He ended Martin's life.

          We don't want our country back, we want our country FORWARD. --Eclectablog

          by Samer on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 01:13:54 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Standard not a lawyer disclosure (0+ / 0-)

            But the published details seem to indicate that the police force did not think there was enough evidence to try and convict him.

            Given that, the prosecutor's office was influenced politically to  override the police force.

            That political influence is the exact thing I think probably opens up the government for massive liabilities.

            You are right not guilt does not mean innocent. But a dead case is a dead case and this apparently was one from the start.

            "He should not have followed Martin."
            Perhaps, don't know dont care.

            "He should not have been armed.

            Because of those actions, Martin is dead."

            If he was not armed maybe GZ would have been dead.

            Killing in self defense  is morally justifiable and is worthy of the term "innocent"

            So yes. despite all your protests there are ways that GZ can truly be considered innocent.

    •  The real travesty of justice (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Lilyvt, sukeyna, micsimov, paradise50

      The real travesty of justice is that he was not arrested until a national outcry had started. The real travesty is that no investigation began until weeks later, when forensic evidence has likely been lost. The real travesty is the white racists chanting "it's not illegal to follow somebody" when God knows if someone who looked like George Zimmerman was following him, they would have shot him. And the comparison to the Duke Lacrosse is a load of bull. In that case the players were telling the truth, unlike Zimmerman. The initial prosecutor chose to ignore exculpatory evidence, and when he was replaced the new prosecutor declared the players factually innocent-not that their guilt could not be proven beyond a reasonable doubt but that they were innocent.
      "Not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" is not the same as "innocent." Nor does a not guilty verdict in a criminal trial mean Zimmerman can't be found liable for wrongful death in a civil trial. Just ask OJ Simpson.

      •  Your make (0+ / 0-)

        believe facts such as
        " The real travesty is that no investigation began until weeks later, when forensic evidence has likely been lost."

        are make believe and proven wrong multiple times. There are parts of this trail which were up for debate and there were parts which only conspiracy theorist psychopaths latched onto. Your crap fell into the latter section. Good thing your opinion does not matter.

      •  ...unfortunately it is not illegal to follow... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        boophus

        ...someone. And in Florida it is not illegal to confront a person...get into an altercation with that person...start losing the fight you started...then grease that person.

        All perfectly legal in Florida.

        Fortunately I live in California...where sanity still actually prevails. Here it is illegal to start an altercation with someone. If you do you will be charged with assault. If you lose the fight you started...tough shit...you will still be arrested for assault. If you have a weapon on you, you are charged with aggravated assault...the penalty is WAY stiffer for that. In California it is ALWAYS illegal to attack anyone...even verbally.

        In California it is technically illegal to be in a car and talk to anyone outside your car...whether they are in another car or on the street. It is also illegal to make hand gestures (like flipping the bird or gang signs) while you're in a vehicle. These two new laws just came into effect this year.

        In Florida it is LEGAL to stalk someone either by walking or driving behind them...and start an altercation...then grease them. It's called the "kill the witness and then lie about it all" law...aka "stand your ground law." When you get rid of the other witness it's your word against no ones.

        Clearly Zimmerman lied about Martin having both his nose and hand covered. Clearly he lied about many things...and that was proved in court. However, lying you fucking ass off in Florida doesn't matter..."kill the witness and claim you had to defend yourself from the guy you just started crap with...so fucking cool to be able to pull a Zimmerman...

        Welcome from the DK Partners & Mentors Team. If you have any questions about how to participate here, you can learn more at the Knowledge Base or from the New Diarists Resources Diaries. Diaries labeled "Open Thread" are also great places to ask. We look forward to your contributions.

        Ignorance is bliss only for the ignorant. The rest of us must suffer the consequences. -7.38; -3.44

        by paradise50 on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 02:15:27 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  ...and that's the reason... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          boophus

          ...Zimmerman wasn't arrested for so long...he didn't commit a crime in Florida. And the prosecution DID NOT want to take the case...again because what Zimmerman did in Florida is perfectly cool and legal. The prosecution knew they were almost certainly going to lose the case...that's why the prosecution was on the defensive (totally ass backwards) in the Zimmerman case.

          Hey, I don't like the hat you're wearing. I'm gonna punch you out...and if you respond I'll just fucking grease you ass and it's perfectly legal...Hell, I think I'll do that a dozen times a day...

          dexter

          Ignorance is bliss only for the ignorant. The rest of us must suffer the consequences. -7.38; -3.44

          by paradise50 on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 02:20:34 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  If only Trayvon had been a fetus. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TRPChicago, micsimov

    Then the "pro-life" right would have fought to the death for him.  Unfortunately, once you're born they don't give a sh*t about you.  And God forbid you put on a hoodie: then you're a thug and can be shot on sight.  Let's hear it for the Right, folks: the only ones looking out for the sanctity of human life, law and order and, of course, personal responsibility.*

    * Some restrictions apply.  "Sanctity of human life," "law and order" and "personal responsibility" are registered trademarks of the GOP and subject to redefinition without notice.

    •  Intentional Imbecility (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      collardgreens, eps62, Lilyvt, sukeyna

      If those six unconscious women on the Zimmerman jury couldn't bring themselves to convict him of what was essentially nothing less than a premeditated murder (he brought along a loaded gun, he stalked his victim, by car and later on foot), I would think that they could at least have convicted him of the very sizable crime of intentional imbecility.

      Just think.   One minute he's sitting comfortably in his car trying to get an unknown "black" youth who is just ambling along, in trouble with the police.   A few minutes later, after having been advised by the dispatcher to stay put, not only is Zimmerman no longer sitting comfortably in his car, but also he's some not commonly disclosed distance away from it, in a spot where -- if his story is to be believed -- he has managed to achieve the submissive position of lying flat on his back and getting his beachball head pounded on a concrete sidewalk.

      You can't get any dumber than that!

      But, unlike the many racists of this country who bought his story whole hog without ever challenging the logic and the probability of it, I just can't understand why it's been seen as being so totally likely.  Zimmerman had at least a 50-pound weight advantage.   That's a major amount in any sort of tussle.  He weighed 207 pounds at the time, plus I assume he also had two rather beefy arms tipped with equally beefy hands.   So what was he doing with those arms and hands?   If it was a fight, then Martin's face should have been marked with substantial damage.   I guess that is all explained away by arguing that all the while, like any good Christian, Zimmerman wasn't hitting back in either "stand your ground" or "self-defense."  Instead he was trying to bring out his gun, which apparently he had secreted in the back of his waistband or wherever.   But would he have used  both arms for that?

       We are widely asked to believe that justice was done on such shaky, idiotic grounds.

       The Sanford verdict was a towering insult to the intelligence of all those with a lick of common sense -- unless they have long since found it expeditious to dump common sense overboard.

  •  Thank you.... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    worldlotus, blueoregon, boophus

    This whole tragedy has deeply disturbed me.
    I'm not black, I'm not a young man dressed in a hoodie, I'm not in Florida, I'm not someone anyone would consider suspicious....
    Yet....
    I am a woman who has been followed in the dark and knows the terror associated with that.
    I don't wear 'hoodies' as a rule, but I have dressed provocatively on occasion which is NOT an invitation for anyone to do anything to me, nor is it representative of womanhood as a whole.
    And as for the suspicious part....even though I don't look suspicious, in many parts of the Country I would be considered VERY suspicious....I believe in equal rights, equal pay, LGBT rights, marriage equality, pro-choice, gun regulations and many many other very suspicious (to some) beliefs.
    I would not have been profiled by George Zimmerman, however, in the grand scheme of things, what I believe in and have fought for (and will continue to fight for, more vigorously now than ever before) is far more of a threat to racists, bigots and homophobes than a young man in a hoodie innocently going home on a dark rainy night.
    I cried when the verdict was announced.
    A young life was gone.  Too many young lives have been 'gone'.  
    Enough.

    I think, therefore I am........................... Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose....AKA Engine Nighthawk - don't even ask!

    by Lilyvt on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 09:55:01 AM PDT

  •  enough (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    eps62

    There are too many stories about Trayvon--look, if he was so important, his murderer would be in jail.  That sentence sounds nasty--but it does ring true.  He's treated as a happening--as a story--as a momento--as a token--guess what--he was a person--up to no wrong--gunned down by a stalker who was told to stay away by the police, who  disregarded those instructions, and then was shielded from harm by the state.

    Let's cry, not only for what this tells us about "the land of the free,"  let's cry with the people that knew, and loved him.  Let's contribute to a fund to support his family--Trayvon was as valuable as the victims of the Boston marathon bombing--and as innocent.  His parents have been abused--over and over again.  

    Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. John Kenneth Galbraith .

    by melvynny on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 10:09:35 AM PDT

  •  Wanting to kill "thugs" is a fetish for some (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    eps62, worldlotus, boophus

    a co-worker is a libertarian (former neo-con) and before the last election he would send me this awful links about how I should own a gun to protect myself from all of the riots that were certain to happen when Rmoney was elected.

    He also frequently talks about how he owns guns because he needs to protect himself from the "black helicopters" and people that are going to try to take his guns or property.

    It's especially sad because he wants people to attack him so that he has the right to use his guns.  

  •  Students at Howard University... (0+ / 0-)

    "Students at Howard University make a statement about profiling"

    If they're claiming that by dressing differently, they no longer appear threatening, it seems to me like they're making a much stronger statement about dress signaling than racial profiling.

    Those who ignore the future are condemned to repeat it.

    by enigmamf on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 11:15:05 AM PDT

    •  But a group of white students (0+ / 0-)

      In those same hoodies wouldn't be seen as threatening.

      Nor would a group of diverse students, predominantly white, but with a few darker faces scattered through it.

      No, it's only when it's a darker crowd that its seen as threatening.

      Of course, in more professional clothes they don't seem threatening. Nobody thinks of professionals as being a threat. Though there's nothing to stop them from being as violent as anybody else.

      That would be a good plot for a novel. A particularly nasty gang that goes around robbing people and breaking into houses, but dresses like businessmen and doctors, driving expensive SUVs.

      They could drive up to the nicest houses, break in and walk out with suitcases full of jewelry and stuff, and nobody would ever notice.

    •  I am 61, my spouse is 65,, We wear freaking hoodie (0+ / 0-)

      but I have never had anyone follow me with a gun to protect all the TVs and stereos in the neighborhood I am visiting or passing through. Of course we are white but you can't see our age when our hoods are up but you could see our hands in all their paleness.  Geesh, so my clothing means the armed paranoid can just shoot me if they grab my shoulder or arm and I fight back.

      Maybe I should carry my gun all the time so someone who feels they have the right and authority to question me doesn't shoot me and walk. Isn't that what the NRA and the paranoid want. Maybe that is why the right always seems to brag about being better armed so like that 70+ guy they can shoot 13 year old black children in the back in a SYG claim. What a grand and glorious world when the aggressor can just kill the one who fights back when they get too close.  

      Is this a way to force us to arm ourselves when people can say the way someone dresses is threatening and deserving of a death sentence.

      Fear is the Mind Killer...

      by boophus on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 03:28:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  It's not just the right. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    blueoregon, a2nite, doroma, sukeyna

    Read some of the comments on the Zimmerman case on this supposedly "progressive" blog, and you'll see many of the same arguments advanced, albeit in somewhat more polite language.  Hell, read some of the comments in this diary, and you'll see the same mentality at work.

    We're kidding ourselves if we think the demonization of Trayvon Martin is a tactic of which only the right is guilty.  It happens right here on DK, day after day after day.  And all of the people who engage in it will feign indignation if anyone dares to point out how racist it is.  

    Yes, the right is certainly crawling with racists. But let's not kid ourselves into thinking we don't have a bunch of racists right here on DK.  Let's clean up our own house before we smugly point fingers at others.

    "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

    by FogCityJohn on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 11:18:24 AM PDT

  •  The idea that the jury delivered the ... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    blueoregon, Lilyvt, a2nite, catilinus

    ..."correct" verdict or, as some have claimed, the only possible verdict is mistaken. It says, in effect, that the three jurors who originally believed Zimmerman should be convicted of murder or manslaughter were wrong and the juror was right whose Anderson Cooper interview and voir dire answers and abortive book deal indicate had already made up her mind before the trial began. This is a bad approach to discussing the trial.

    The jury would not have been "incorrect" had it convicted Zimmerman. It all ultimately hinged on whether the jurors believed his various stories of what went down when no eyewitnesses except he could tell us.

    The prosecution, to be sure, did a crappy job at questioning its own witnesses. For instance, why did lead investigator Chris Serino not find Zimmerman credible after interviewing him, and feel he should be charged, but when he got on the stand say he saw no big discrepancies? We'll never know because Bernie de la Rionda didn't ask him.

    Even so, the jury could have decided on its own that Zimmerman just was not credible and produce a perfectly "correct" verdict of guilty within the parameters of Judge Nelson's instructions.

    Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

    by Meteor Blades on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 11:22:52 AM PDT

  •  Hard to believe but someone told me today..... (0+ / 0-)

    that the tea and skittles are ingredients used to make drugs when they are combined together.  Trayvon was a drug dealer and Obama was pressuring the media to cover up this "fact".  You are right, people want to take Trayvon's soul from him.  His death wasn't good enough for them.

    "A weed is a plant whose virtues have not yet been discovered." Ralph Waldo Emerson

    by Yo Bubba on Sun Jul 21, 2013 at 04:14:28 PM PDT

  •  The popularity of zombies... (0+ / 0-)

    I don't think it's coincidental that zombies are all the rage  right now.   Think about it - it's the ultimate rightwing gun-nut fantasy.  You get to shoot and kill your neighbors, and not only are you NOT charged with a crime, but you're hailed as a hero.    Not only that, but your place in the heirarchy of heroes depends upon how creative , efficient, and industrious you were in preparing for and dealing with said  "zombie apocalypse".  

    It's basically like porn for the type of person alluded to in this diary.

  •  What scares me is a red-faced white man (0+ / 0-)

    with a reddened leathery neck, holding a drink.

    I dunno why, but that image scares me.  Would I gun him down for walking near me?  No.  Would I cross the street if he was coming the other way?  No, unless he was carrying a gun.

    So who cares about my fear of him?  It is all perception.  Imagine intiating a confrontation with him, and trying to get away with killing him simply because he made me get the fears.

    Ayn is the bane! Take the Antidote To Ayn Rand and call your doctor in the morning: You have health insurance now! @floydbluealdus1

    by Floyd Blue on Mon Jul 22, 2013 at 12:05:47 PM PDT

  •  How sad does it get, a child is dead and his (0+ / 0-)

    shooter is a hero to some.

  •  Coverage of Trayvon (0+ / 0-)

    It should really come as no surprise that the right would be stooping as low as they can, bringing up false narrative after narrative. I took a look at some of the coverage, and the overall meaning of the Trayvon Martin case -http://matthewkitson.blogspot.com/...

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